https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
"Content not available in your region"
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be leased. >>
I mean ... fuck Apple.
I mean, you could try and post something others can see...
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
The new leasing programme is just one option. You can still buy the
phone (or any other Apple device) in the same ways you could before -
retail store, webstore, phone provider plan, etc.
Some people are stupid enough to think that leasing thngs is a good
idea, partly because they then get a new model every year. The reality
is that it always costs you a lot more in the long run.
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
On 9/9/2026 5:30 PM, badgolferman wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh, only
big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based SoC, what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more advanced systems.
On 9/9/2026 7:31 PM, Your Name wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
The new leasing programme is just one option. You can still buy the
phone (or any other Apple device) in the same ways you could before -
retail store, webstore, phone provider plan, etc.
Some people are stupid enough to think that leasing thngs is a good
idea, partly because they then get a new model every year. The reality
is that it always costs you a lot more in the long run.
You're not wrong as such - but I would point out that they're
introducing leasing at a time when personal-computer hardware is
becoming a literal commodity.-a They're preserving the Apple Way of high prices and the sense of high quality.
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
And are they holding a gun to anyone's head to make them accept a lease, hmmm?
They're preserving the Apple Way of high
prices and the sense of high quality.
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
I know, man, lol, but you have to admit they're getting desperate. No wonder M$ tolerates the gray-market licenses on the cheap PCs, it's
dooming Apple little by little as people wake up to the fact they've
been getting scathed for money by Apple, compared to the competition.
All Apple can do is double down. They're putting *internal* AI, with
the water, in the iPhone unit, heh, and leasing their devices.
They're preserving the Apple Way of high
prices and the sense of high quality.
That's an interesting assessment, where I would question the latter half. What, really, does an iPhone/iPad have, that's "higher quality" in fact?
Seriously.
Higher quality, than what?
Higher quality than a $39.99 Android?
Or higher quality than a similarly priced Android, usually Samsung?
We've compared similarly-priced Samsung's, which came out better in all the government tests, which, at least normalizes all the marketing lies evenly.
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,uk.telecom.mobile
Subject: EU standards compare Apple iPhone 17 Pro Max & Samsung Galaxy S26 Ultra battery lifetime
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2026 23:30:04 -0600
Message-ID: <10rsggs$2vhk$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
Comparing similarly priced competitive devices, which, effectively, is
likely only Samsung products, is the iPhone/iPad actually higher quality?
How so?
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be leased. >>
I mean ... fuck Apple.
I mean ... you are so fucking stupid.
Leasing is for COMPANIES. The same COMPANIES that LEASE Windows PCs.
Usually for 3 years. Then the COMPANIES return them and LEASE new models.
So the COMPANIES don't have to worry about
buying/maintenance/disposal/resale and other shit regarding 1000s or tens
of 1000s of hardware.
AGAIN, you are not everyone. More options means more sales and ability to handle ALL customers.
We all know you are dirt poor and rock stupid. So why do you even care
what Apple does? Apple is WAY out of your league. Do you whine about the price BMWs? Ferarris? 24 carat diamonds?
Apple is WAY out of your league. Do you whine about the
price BMWs? Ferarris? 24 carat diamonds?
On 2026-09-09 15:19, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 5:30 PM, badgolferman wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh,
only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based SoC,
what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more advanced systems.
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
On 2026-09-09 16:36, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 7:31 PM, Your Name wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
The new leasing programme is just one option. You can still buy the
phone (or any other Apple device) in the same ways you could before -
retail store, webstore, phone provider plan, etc.
Some people are stupid enough to think that leasing thngs is a good
idea, partly because they then get a new model every year. The
reality is that it always costs you a lot more in the long run.
You're not wrong as such - but I would point out that they're
introducing leasing at a time when personal-computer hardware is
becoming a literal commodity.-a They're preserving the Apple Way of
high prices and the sense of high quality.
Actually, they're introducing leasing at a time when personal computer hardware (no hyphen required) is becoming MORE expensive as data centres drive up the demandrCobut not the supplyrCoof some of the most vital components.
Nick Charles wrote:
Apple is WAY out of your league. Do you whine about the
price BMWs? Ferarris? 24 carat diamonds?
I get your point that Apple is "out of his league", on price, and well, it may be because it used to be a $39.99 Android ran more software than any Apple mobile device ever made, but nowadays, AI does stress the hardware.
Nick Charles wrote:
Apple is WAY out of your league. Do you whine about the
price BMWs? Ferarris? 24 carat diamonds?
I get your point that Apple is "out of his league", on price, and well, it may be because it used to be a $39.99 Android ran more software than any Apple mobile device ever made, but nowadays, AI does stress the hardware.
On 9/9/2026 8:22 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
They're preserving the Apple Way of high prices and the sense of high quality.
That's an interesting assessment, where I would question the latter half.
What, really, does an iPhone/iPad have, that's "higher quality" in fact?
Seriously.
Higher quality, than what?
Higher quality than a $39.99 Android?
Or higher quality than a similarly priced Android, usually Samsung?
We've compared similarly-priced Samsung's, which came out better in all the >> government tests, which, at least normalizes all the marketing lies evenly. >>
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,uk.telecom.mobile >> Subject: EU standards compare Apple iPhone 17 Pro Max & Samsung Galaxy
S26 Ultra battery lifetime
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2026 23:30:04 -0600
Message-ID: <10rsggs$2vhk$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
Comparing similarly priced competitive devices, which, effectively, is
likely only Samsung products, is the iPhone/iPad actually higher quality?
How so?
It's one thing with phones. But for a Mac? Just insanity. Apple
Silicon is facing stiff competition because at some point you have more power than you need - and paying for that becomes stupid.
On 9/9/2026 8:19 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 16:36, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 7:31 PM, Your Name wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
The new leasing programme is just one option. You can still buy the
phone (or any other Apple device) in the same ways you could before - >>>> retail store, webstore, phone provider plan, etc.
Some people are stupid enough to think that leasing thngs is a good
idea, partly because they then get a new model every year. The reality >>>> is that it always costs you a lot more in the long run.
You're not wrong as such - but I would point out that they're
introducing leasing at a time when personal-computer hardware is
becoming a literal commodity.-a They're preserving the Apple Way of high >>> prices and the sense of high quality.
Actually, they're introducing leasing at a time when personal computer
hardware (no hyphen required) is becoming MORE expensive as data
centres drive up the demandrCobut not the supplyrCoof some of the most
vital components.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GS8BRTNF/?th=1
That box is basically identical to mine. $10 less than the price I
paid at the time I did. It's not a supercomputer by any means, but
it'll run Windows 11 well, Apple is selling you stuff you don't need.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GS8BRTNF/?th=1
That box is basically identical to mine.-a $10 less than the price I
paid at the time I did.-a It's not a supercomputer by any means, but
it'll run Windows 11 well, Apple is selling you stuff you don't need.
I wouldn't use Windoze even if they were giving away top-end computers
for free.
Apple's devices are not "expensive", they're simply "high-end", pretty
much the same price as the high-end devices from the likes of Samsung,
Sony, etc. Apple doesn't bother with the el cheapo low-end device market.
On 9/9/2026 8:16 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 15:19, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 5:30 PM, badgolferman wrote:In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh,
only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based SoC,
what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more advanced systems. >>
By not being drain bamaged from acid and being a lame company that
relies on its cult draw to suck money out of affluent people in the
first world, who can't fathom using Winblows, and ew Linux. FFS, Apple
is on its last legs, here. They're leasing everything to everyone if they're stupid enough to sign on to that. They're putting the water for internal AI in the iPhone unit.
Apple is hitting a brick wall, hard. Much like the Republicans.
On 9/9/2026 5:32 PM, Chris wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
"Content not available in your region"
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be leased. >>>
I mean ... fuck Apple.
I mean, you could try and post something others can see...
Try https://imgur.com/a/7lOmLX4
Joel W. Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/9/2026 8:16 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 15:19, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 5:30 PM, badgolferman wrote:In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be >>>>>> leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh,
only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based SoC,
what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more advanced systems. >>>
By not being drain bamaged from acid and being a lame company that
relies on its cult draw to suck money out of affluent people in the
first world, who can't fathom using Winblows, and ew Linux. FFS, Apple
is on its last legs, here. They're leasing everything to everyone if
they're stupid enough to sign on to that. They're putting the water for
internal AI in the iPhone unit.
Apple is hitting a brick wall, hard. Much like the Republicans.
So in answer to Alan's question, in no way.
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
"Content not available in your region"
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be leased. >>>>
I mean ... fuck Apple.
I mean, you could try and post something others can see...
Try https://imgur.com/a/7lOmLX4
Nope. imgur is the problem, not the link. It blocks access in Europe.
On 2026-09-09 11:56, Joel W. Crump wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
And are they holding a gun to anyone's head to make them accept a lease, hmmm?
On 2026-09-09 15:19, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 5:30 PM, badgolferman wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh,
only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based SoC,
what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more advanced systems.
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
On 2026-09-09 16:36, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 7:31 PM, Your Name wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
The new leasing programme is just one option. You can still buy the
phone (or any other Apple device) in the same ways you could before -
retail store, webstore, phone provider plan, etc.
Some people are stupid enough to think that leasing thngs is a good
idea, partly because they then get a new model every year. The
reality is that it always costs you a lot more in the long run.
You're not wrong as such - but I would point out that they're
introducing leasing at a time when personal-computer hardware is
becoming a literal commodity.-a They're preserving the Apple Way of
high prices and the sense of high quality.
Actually, they're introducing leasing at a time when personal computer hardware (no hyphen required) is becoming MORE expensive as data centres drive up the demandrCobut not the supplyrCoof some of the most vital components.
On 9/9/2026 8:16 PM, Alan wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
And are they holding a gun to anyone's head to make them accept a
lease, hmmm?
I know, man, lol, but you have to admit they're getting desperate.-a No wonder M$ tolerates the gray-market licenses on the cheap PCs, it's
dooming Apple little by little as people wake up to the fact they've
been getting scathed for money by Apple, compared to the competition.
All Apple can do is double down.-a They're putting *internal* AI, with
the water, in the iPhone unit, heh, and leasing their devices.
Get ready for Apple to implode.
Joel W. Crump wrote:
They're preserving the Apple Way of high
prices and the sense of high quality.
That's an interesting assessment, where I would question the latter half. What, really, does an iPhone/iPad have, that's "higher quality" in fact?
Seriously.
Higher quality, than what?
Higher quality than a $39.99 Android?
Or higher quality than a similarly priced Android, usually Samsung?
We've compared similarly-priced Samsung's, which came out better in all the government tests, which, at least normalizes all the marketing lies evenly.
On 9/9/2026 8:22 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
They're preserving the Apple Way of high
prices and the sense of high quality.
That's an interesting assessment, where I would question the latter half.
What, really, does an iPhone/iPad have, that's "higher quality" in fact?
Seriously.
Higher quality, than what?
Higher quality than a $39.99 Android?
Or higher quality than a similarly priced Android, usually Samsung?
We've compared similarly-priced Samsung's, which came out better in
all the
government tests, which, at least normalizes all the marketing lies
evenly.
-a Newsgroups:
misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,uk.telecom.mobile
-a Subject: EU standards compare Apple iPhone 17 Pro Max & Samsung
Galaxy S26 Ultra battery lifetime
-a Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2026 23:30:04 -0600
-a Message-ID: <10rsggs$2vhk$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
Comparing similarly priced competitive devices, which, effectively, is
likely only Samsung products, is the iPhone/iPad actually higher quality?
How so?
It's one thing with phones.-a But for a Mac?-a Just insanity.-a Apple Silicon is facing stiff competition because at some point you have more power than you need - and paying for that becomes stupid.
On 9/9/2026 8:28 PM, Nick Charles wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
I mean ... you are so fucking stupid.
Leasing is for COMPANIES.-a The same COMPANIES that LEASE Windows PCs.
Usually for 3 years.-a Then the COMPANIES return them and LEASE new
models.
So the COMPANIES don't have to worry about
buying/maintenance/disposal/resale and other shit regarding 1000s or tens
of 1000s of hardware.
They are talking about leasing to consumers, here.
AGAIN, you are not everyone.-a More options means more sales and
ability to
handle ALL customers.
We all know you are dirt poor and rock stupid.-a-a So why do you even care >> what Apple does?-a-a Apple is WAY out of your league.-a Do you whine
about the
price BMWs?-a-a Ferarris?-a-a 24 carat diamonds?
Out of my league?-a I purchased a MacBook, once (2010 Snow Leopard). I've had the experience.-a It's not so great, in reality.-a Microsoft Office
for Mac is great, Adobe's Mac products, as well as video/film editing,
there are some great niches with Macs, as well as being a type of Unix platform, but at the end of the day one will save a lot of money using
Linux for Unix stuff, and recognizing that nothing Apple-centric has
such value to be worth the price.-a Windows 11 is pretty cool.
-aLinux is
divine.
No one need be caught in the maze of Apple's gimmicks.
On 9/9/2026 8:16 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 15:19, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 5:30 PM, badgolferman wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh,
only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based SoC,
what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more advanced
systems.
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
By not being drain bamaged from acid and being a lame company that
relies on its cult draw to suck money out of affluent people in the
first world, who can't fathom using Winblows, and ew Linux.-a FFS, Apple
is on its last legs, here.-a They're leasing everything to everyone if they're stupid enough to sign on to that.-a They're putting the water for internal AI in the iPhone unit.
Apple is hitting a brick wall, hard.-a Much like the Republicans.
So in answer to Alan's question, in no way.
You are posting with an iPhone, so I concede. You have the better of
me, there, because Android doesn't have a good Usenet client. I should
be spending my time developing one, but I don't care enough to make the effort, I'd rather troll Apple-user newsgroups with pro-Linux/Windows anti-Apple-grift bullshit.
On 2026-09-09 8:16 p.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 15:19, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 5:30 PM, badgolferman wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh,
only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based SoC,
what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more advanced
systems.
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
Don't worry, Joel is a technical genius and will be able to explain it
to you in detail.
On 2026-09-09 8:19 p.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 16:36, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 7:31 PM, Your Name wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
The new leasing programme is just one option. You can still buy the
phone (or any other Apple device) in the same ways you could before
- retail store, webstore, phone provider plan, etc.
Some people are stupid enough to think that leasing thngs is a good
idea, partly because they then get a new model every year. The
reality is that it always costs you a lot more in the long run.
You're not wrong as such - but I would point out that they're
introducing leasing at a time when personal-computer hardware is
becoming a literal commodity.-a They're preserving the Apple Way of
high prices and the sense of high quality.
Actually, they're introducing leasing at a time when personal computer
hardware (no hyphen required) is becoming MORE expensive as data
centres drive up the demandrCobut not the supplyrCoof some of the most
vital components.
Agreed wholeheartedly here. Funny enough, I killed my gaming laptop two
days ago and thought "oh well, it was five years-old anyway, it might be time for a new one." Then, I looked at the prices. Here in Canada, one laptop I was curious about is considered a _budget_ gaming laptop. Its price? $2,299 CAD . No thanks, I'll just stick to the Mac until games
stop just being better-looking versions of things that came out in 2010. Meanwhile, the MacBook Pro is considered to be expensive at $2,799 CAD
when it gives you greater processing power than any Intel or AMD chip
can manage without sounding like a hair-dryer.
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh,
only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based SoC, >>>> what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more advanced
systems.
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
By not being drain bamaged from acid and being a lame company that
relies on its cult draw to suck money out of affluent people in the
first world, who can't fathom using Winblows, and ew Linux.a FFS, Apple
is on its last legs, here.a They're leasing everything to everyone if
they're stupid enough to sign on to that.a They're putting the water for
internal AI in the iPhone unit.
They're leasing because they came to the realization that a lot of
people are happy to change their hardware every two years and because
the economic situation has become one in which people are already having trouble buying their essentials, much less the luxuries. Whether you are leasing because you like the feeling of new or because you can't afford
one lump sum, Apple has something for you.
Apple is hitting a brick wall, hard.a Much like the Republicans.
I'm sure they've lost a lot of value on the stock market to reflect
that... right?
Apple
Silicon is facing stiff competition because at some point you have
more power than you need - and paying for that becomes stupid.
The reality is that people will never have more power than they need.
After all, just browsing the web now requires way more power than you
had in 2010, and the content is no more immersive than it was back then. Similarly, people were able to encode their videos just fine with their
2015 hardware, even at 4k, but it's no longer fast enough for 4k in
2026. It's planned obsolescence, and there is little anyone can do about it-a but continue buying new hardware at reasonable intervals.
I purchased a MacBook, once (2010 Snow Leopard).
I've had the experience.-a It's not so great, in reality.-a Microsoft
Office for Mac is great, Adobe's Mac products, as well as video/film
editing, there are some great niches with Macs, as well as being a
type of Unix platform, but at the end of the day one will save a lot
of money using Linux for Unix stuff, and recognizing that nothing
Apple-centric has such value to be worth the price.-a Windows 11 is
pretty cool.
It does the job, like a $20 hooker, but you won't feel too good about yourself afterwards and you'll probably contract something along the way.
-aLinux is divine.
Most of the world disagrees.
No one need be caught in the maze of Apple's gimmicks.
They choose to be. Most people buying Apple hardware nowadays are people
who used the alternative and got sick of the scanning their storage for broken system files or malware, or realized that PC hardware is
essentially a bunch of components from dozens of different manufacturers that may or may not work in harmony.
On 9/10/2026 8:55 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:19 p.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 16:36, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 7:31 PM, Your Name wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be >>>>>> leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
The new leasing programme is just one option. You can still buy the >>>>> phone (or any other Apple device) in the same ways you could before >>>>> - retail store, webstore, phone provider plan, etc.
Some people are stupid enough to think that leasing thngs is a good >>>>> idea, partly because they then get a new model every year. The
reality is that it always costs you a lot more in the long run.
You're not wrong as such - but I would point out that they're
introducing leasing at a time when personal-computer hardware is
becoming a literal commodity.-a They're preserving the Apple Way of
high prices and the sense of high quality.
Actually, they're introducing leasing at a time when personal
computer hardware (no hyphen required) is becoming MORE expensive as
data centres drive up the demandrCobut not the supplyrCoof some of the
most vital components.
Agreed wholeheartedly here. Funny enough, I killed my gaming laptop
two days ago and thought "oh well, it was five years-old anyway, it
might be time for a new one." Then, I looked at the prices. Here in
Canada, one laptop I was curious about is considered a _budget_ gaming
laptop. Its price? $2,299 CAD . No thanks, I'll just stick to the Mac
until games stop just being better-looking versions of things that
came out in 2010. Meanwhile, the MacBook Pro is considered to be
expensive at $2,799 CAD when it gives you greater processing power
than any Intel or AMD chip can manage without sounding like a hair-dryer.
You paid that much for an MBP?-a I admit, that is the Mac I would almost kind of want, because laptops are where the OS shines for consumers, but that's a stiff fee for the privilege.
On 2026-09-09 8:46 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 8:16 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 15:19, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 5:30 PM, badgolferman wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be >>>>>> leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh,
only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based
SoC, what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more
advanced systems.
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
By not being drain bamaged from acid and being a lame company that
relies on its cult draw to suck money out of affluent people in the
first world, who can't fathom using Winblows, and ew Linux.-a FFS,
Apple is on its last legs, here.-a They're leasing everything to
everyone if they're stupid enough to sign on to that.-a They're putting
the water for internal AI in the iPhone unit.
They're leasing because they came to the realization that a lot of
people are happy to change their hardware every two years and because
the economic situation has become one in which people are already having trouble buying their essentials, much less the luxuries. Whether you are leasing because you like the feeling of new or because you can't afford
one lump sum, Apple has something for you.
Apple is hitting a brick wall, hard.-a Much like the Republicans.
I'm sure they've lost a lot of value on the stock market to reflect
that... right?
We've compared similarly-priced Samsung's, which came out better in all the >> government tests, which, at least normalizes all the marketing lies evenly.
You're _still_ talking about this, all these months later? Are you autistic?
CrudeSausage wrote:
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh,
only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based SoC, >>>>> what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more advanced
systems.
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
By not being drain bamaged from acid and being a lame company that
relies on its cult draw to suck money out of affluent people in the
first world, who can't fathom using Winblows, and ew Linux.N++ FFS, Apple >>> is on its last legs, here.N++ They're leasing everything to everyone if
they're stupid enough to sign on to that.N++ They're putting the water for >>> internal AI in the iPhone unit.
They're leasing because they came to the realization that a lot of
people are happy to change their hardware every two years and because
the economic situation has become one in which people are already having
trouble buying their essentials, much less the luxuries. Whether you are
leasing because you like the feeling of new or because you can't afford
one lump sum, Apple has something for you.
We have a thread on the Apple/Android newsgroups about what the five most common things are that make people want to ditch that iPhone (or Android device) and want to make them literally stand in line all night outside the phone store just waiting for the 1st chance to trade it in for a new phone.
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2026 17:14:40 +0200
Message-ID: <116hn4v$2g5d$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
Now that both Android & iOS development has plateaued, what are the key
factors that make any of us want to replace our current mobile device?
1. Battery loses capacity & it's too hard to replace so we buy a new phone
2. Storage is stressed but if it can't be replaced, we buy a bigger phone
3. Hardware is damaged & it's too expensive to fix (e.g., cracked screen)
4. Device doesn't do what we want it to do (e.g., bigger camera perhaps?)
5. OEM stops full updates of the entire device (so it's now toxic)
6. ?
The main problem with iPhones, in terms of that two-year service life that CrudeSausage (a known Apple religious zealot troll) alludes to,
is the
crappy batteries that Apple put into the iPhone, and still puts in them.
Just like how Apple got burned in AI due to the laughably anemic RAM Apple used to put into iPhones until recently, the garbage battery in all iPhones is the weakest link, in terms of the overall lifetime of the mobile device.
In fact, despite Apple's claims of efficiency that nobody on the planet
could reproduce (want to guess why?), in the first release of the EU standards for battery efficiency, Apple's devices fared poorly when you compare to all of Apple's marketing claims about "efficiency".
The fact iPhones lack storage expandability also kills the iPhone sooner
than Android, given 60.45% of Androids of today still have that sd slot.
The outrageous expense of a damaged iPhone, again, comparing to Android, is also a reason Apple owners queue up outside the Apple store for the first chance they have to get rid of that thing, but there's more to the story.
The fact Apple's current promised full support is vastly shorter than the latest Samsung & Google flagships (which are what compete with the iPhone)
is another reason people wait outside the Apple store talking about how desperate they are to get rid of that toxic phone which lacks updates.
Remember, Apple has *never* in its entire history, *ever* fully supported more than a single major release at any given time (for iOS or for macOS).
The microsecond that Apple releases a new major release (e.g., iOS 17 to
iOS 18), full hotfix support INSTANTLY drops for every other release.
That's part of why Apple owners can't wait to get rid of that damn iPhone.
Apple is hitting a brick wall, hard.N++ Much like the Republicans.
I'm sure they've lost a lot of value on the stock market to reflect
that... right?
The instant the technical discussion gets to politics, it's evidence that
the trolls have infested the thread as they have no technical value to add.
On 9/10/2026 9:02 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Apple Silicon is facing stiff competition because at some point you
have more power than you need - and paying for that becomes stupid.
The reality is that people will never have more power than they need.
After all, just browsing the web now requires way more power than you
had in 2010, and the content is no more immersive than it was back
then. Similarly, people were able to encode their videos just fine
with their 2015 hardware, even at 4k, but it's no longer fast enough
for 4k in 2026. It's planned obsolescence, and there is little anyone
can do about it-a but continue buying new hardware at reasonable
intervals.
That's why I'll keep buying mini PCs sourced from China, swap the new
one in and voila.
You are posting with an iPhone, so I concede. You have the better of
me, there, because Android doesn't have a good Usenet client. I should
be spending my time developing one, but I don't care enough to make the
effort, I'd rather troll Apple-user newsgroups with pro-Linux/Windows
anti-Apple-grift bullshit.
Hi Joel,
*NEW DATAPOINT!*
You probably are unaware of the information below, so take it as a PSA.
As we've proved for over a decade on the iOS ng, there's nothing on iOS by way of app functionality that isn't already on Android, while there is
plenty of app and hardware functionality on Android that is NOT on iOS.
To wit...
Android has a couple of F(l)OSS Usenet readers, one of which is this one.
Subject: [NeReO] - 1.3.1 is ready
From: MCSM <despammed@mcsm.anonaddy.me>
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Message-ID: <mn.4a1e7ea9b858b405.0@mcsm.org>
Organization: mcsm.org
X-Newsreader: MesNews/1.08.06.00-it
https://sourceforge.net/projects/nereo/files/1.3.1/
What I like about NeReO, is the developer seems keen on asking people to
test it, and he's been *very responsive* in the Android Usenet newsgroup.
Also, it comes pre-set for the privacy-aware no-registration newsgroups.
Just tap, and you're on Usenet for reading and posting, sans registration.
On 9/10/2026 9:05 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
I purchased a MacBook, once (2010 Snow Leopard). I've had the
experience.-a It's not so great, in reality.-a Microsoft Office for Mac >>> is great, Adobe's Mac products, as well as video/film editing, there
are some great niches with Macs, as well as being a type of Unix
platform, but at the end of the day one will save a lot of money
using Linux for Unix stuff, and recognizing that nothing Apple-
centric has such value to be worth the price.-a Windows 11 is pretty
cool.
It does the job, like a $20 hooker, but you won't feel too good about
yourself afterwards and you'll probably contract something along the way.
I paid $200 for Win11 Pro even though I had a gray-market license with
the device already, Microsoft is treating my system the same as they did when I had my self-assembled one, as a retail customer.-a I installed the
OS from generic media, I installed all the apps, it's under my control.
I even use Norton rather than relying on Windows' own antimalware protection.
-aLinux is divine.
Most of the world disagrees.
Most of the world aren't nerds.
No one need be caught in the maze of Apple's gimmicks.
They choose to be. Most people buying Apple hardware nowadays are
people who used the alternative and got sick of the scanning their
storage for broken system files or malware, or realized that PC
hardware is essentially a bunch of components from dozens of different
manufacturers that may or may not work in harmony.
Yeah but when they're putting the AI inside the phone with the cooling system, for your preservation of privacy, I mean did I just dream that
shit in Apple's announcement?-a Could they have really said it out loud
they would do this?-a There's no end to how they'll keep luxury
experience, and price, for their customers.
Apple Silicon is facing stiff competition because at some point you
have more power than you need - and paying for that becomes stupid.
The reality is that people will never have more power than they need.
After all, just browsing the web now requires way more power than you
had in 2010, and the content is no more immersive than it was back
then. Similarly, people were able to encode their videos just fine
with their 2015 hardware, even at 4k, but it's no longer fast enough
for 4k in 2026. It's planned obsolescence, and there is little anyone
can do about it-a but continue buying new hardware at reasonable
intervals.
That's why I'll keep buying mini PCs sourced from China, swap the new
one in and voila.
Funny enough, if I were to give away a 2019 MacBook to someone, they'd
be overjoyed to receive it despite it being obsolete and worn.
Meanwhile, you'd have trouble finding someone who would be willing to
take your 2019 PC laptop. Why do you think that is?
CrudeSausage wrote:
We've compared similarly-priced Samsung's, which came out better in all the >>> government tests, which, at least normalizes all the marketing lies evenly. >>You're _still_ talking about this, all these months later? Are you autistic?
Are you on Usenet for your own amusement or to add solid technical value? (Please do not respond if all you can do is attack the messenger of facts.)
While you attack all facts by attacking the person who stated the facts,
I will remain on an adult level with you, CrudeSausage, as I know you well.
The fact remains, Apple brilliantly advertises quality, and safety, and security, but we proved, using published technical documents, it lost to
the competitor, which we all agree ahead of time would be that Samsung.
While Apple MARKETING is brilliant at propaganda, the fact remains Apple hasn't released any new mobile device technology in a very long time.
FACT: (verbatim quotes from *today* if timing is all you care about):
"Apple is hardly blazing a new path with the Duo."
and
"The iPhone is Apple's most profitable product, generating more than
half its revenue. But the device has mostly remained the same over
the past two decades"
Those quotes are from *today* if you think any discussion about Apple technical merits can't be from a month ago, but must only be from today.
*What itN++s like to use the iPhone Duo*
<https://edition.cnn.com/2026/09/09/tech/apple-announces-iphone-duo-first-foldable-iphone>
The assessment of fact remains, that the only quality part about Apple is they arguably have one of the finest MARKETING organizations on the planet!
I wonder how long it will take Apple to catch up to the 5G modem specs?
Joel W. Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be leased. >>
I mean ... fuck Apple.
I mean ... you are so fucking stupid.
Leasing is for COMPANIES. The same COMPANIES that LEASE Windows PCs.
Usually for 3 years. Then the COMPANIES return them and LEASE new models.
So the COMPANIES don't have to worry about
buying/maintenance/disposal/resale and other shit regarding 1000s or tens
of 1000s of hardware.
AGAIN, you are not everyone. More options means more sales and ability to handle ALL customers.
We all know you are dirt poor and rock stupid. So why do you even care
what Apple does? Apple is WAY out of your league. Do you whine about the price BMWs? Ferarris? 24 carat diamonds?
On 9/10/2026 1:36 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Apple Silicon is facing stiff competition because at some point you >>>>> have more power than you need - and paying for that becomes stupid.
The reality is that people will never have more power than they
need. After all, just browsing the web now requires way more power
than you had in 2010, and the content is no more immersive than it
was back then. Similarly, people were able to encode their videos
just fine with their 2015 hardware, even at 4k, but it's no longer
fast enough for 4k in 2026. It's planned obsolescence, and there is
little anyone can do about it-a but continue buying new hardware at
reasonable intervals.
That's why I'll keep buying mini PCs sourced from China, swap the new
one in and voila.
Funny enough, if I were to give away a 2019 MacBook to someone, they'd
be overjoyed to receive it despite it being obsolete and worn.
Meanwhile, you'd have trouble finding someone who would be willing to
take your 2019 PC laptop. Why do you think that is?
Dude, I don't dispute that Windows laptops are a disaster.-a They're beginning to move to ARM, but it's taking a while.
The MacBook Pro line
is really the high end of laptops, in truth.
Joel W. Crump wrote:
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be leased. >>
I mean ... fuck Apple.
I mean ... you are so fucking stupid.
Leasing is for COMPANIES. The same COMPANIES that LEASE Windows PCs. >Usually for 3 years. Then the COMPANIES return them and LEASE new models.
So the COMPANIES don't have to worry about
buying/maintenance/disposal/resale and other shit regarding 1000s or tens
of 1000s of hardware.
AGAIN, you are not everyone. More options means more sales and ability to >handle ALL customers.
We all know you are dirt poor and rock stupid. So why do you even care
what Apple does? Apple is WAY out of your league. Do you whine about the >price BMWs? Ferarris? 24 carat diamonds?
Funny enough, if I were to give away a 2019 MacBook to someone,
they'd be overjoyed to receive it despite it being obsolete and worn.
Meanwhile, you'd have trouble finding someone who would be willing to
take your 2019 PC laptop. Why do you think that is?
Dude, I don't dispute that Windows laptops are a disaster.-a They're
beginning to move to ARM, but it's taking a while.
They've started to sell the ARM laptops already, but it's clear that the migration is never going to happen as it should. Apple had a plan,
Microsoft just threw things at the wall and hoped it would stick. It's
just the latest in the line of Microsoft failures.
The MacBook Pro line is really the high end of laptops, in truth.
Yep, and I might eventually get one. It all really depends if I can
figure out what use I might have for the added processing power.
Otherwise, the Air is just fine. Its 256GB storage is little, but I have
a crapload of external storage to go with it that serves me just fine.
Nick Charles wrote:
Joel W. Crump wrote:
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be leased. >>>
I mean ... fuck Apple.
I mean ... you are so fucking stupid.
Leasing is for COMPANIES. The same COMPANIES that LEASE Windows PCs.
Usually for 3 years. Then the COMPANIES return them and LEASE new models. >>
So the COMPANIES don't have to worry about
buying/maintenance/disposal/resale and other shit regarding 1000s or tens
of 1000s of hardware.
AGAIN, you are not everyone. More options means more sales and ability to >> handle ALL customers.
We all know you are dirt poor and rock stupid. So why do you even care
what Apple does? Apple is WAY out of your league. Do you whine about the >> price BMWs? Ferarris? 24 carat diamonds?
He's a troll, and trolling Apple fans gets him the attention that he
craves. Why so many people bother with his nonsense, I do not know.
Nick Charles wrote:
Joel W. Crump wrote:
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be leased. >>>
I mean ... fuck Apple.
I mean ... you are so fucking stupid.
Leasing is for COMPANIES. The same COMPANIES that LEASE Windows PCs.
Usually for 3 years. Then the COMPANIES return them and LEASE new models. >>
So the COMPANIES don't have to worry about
buying/maintenance/disposal/resale and other shit regarding 1000s or tens
of 1000s of hardware.
AGAIN, you are not everyone. More options means more sales and ability to >> handle ALL customers.
We all know you are dirt poor and rock stupid. So why do you even care
what Apple does? Apple is WAY out of your league. Do you whine about the >> price BMWs? Ferarris? 24 carat diamonds?
He's a troll, and trolling Apple fans gets him the attention that he
craves. Why so many people bother with his nonsense, I do not know.
On 9/10/2026 3:52 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Funny enough, if I were to give away a 2019 MacBook to someone,
they'd be overjoyed to receive it despite it being obsolete and
worn. Meanwhile, you'd have trouble finding someone who would be
willing to take your 2019 PC laptop. Why do you think that is?
Dude, I don't dispute that Windows laptops are a disaster.-a They're
beginning to move to ARM, but it's taking a while.
They've started to sell the ARM laptops already, but it's clear that
the migration is never going to happen as it should. Apple had a plan,
Microsoft just threw things at the wall and hoped it would stick. It's
just the latest in the line of Microsoft failures.
Apple has the advantage of being their own hardware source, but yeah,
the Windows marketplace hasn't moved in that direction *nearly* to the extent I wanted it to, people are too comfortable with their disposable microwave-oven IntelAMD laptops.
The MacBook Pro line is really the high end of laptops, in truth.
Yep, and I might eventually get one. It all really depends if I can
figure out what use I might have for the added processing power.
Otherwise, the Air is just fine. Its 256GB storage is little, but I
have a crapload of external storage to go with it that serves me just
fine.
If I wanted a computer to use on an airplane/etc., the MBP is the
obvious buy.-a I'm a little unconvinced with WindowsARM because it's so small a market, yet.-a Then again, maybe they'd sell me on one.
On 2026-09-10 3:59 p.m., chrisv wrote:
Nick Charles wrote:
Joel W. Crump wrote:
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
I mean ... you are so fucking stupid.
Leasing is for COMPANIES.-a The same COMPANIES that LEASE Windows PCs.
Usually for 3 years.-a Then the COMPANIES return them and LEASE new
models.
So the COMPANIES don't have to worry about
buying/maintenance/disposal/resale and other shit regarding 1000s or
tens
of 1000s of hardware.
AGAIN, you are not everyone.-a More options means more sales and
ability to
handle ALL customers.
We all know you are dirt poor and rock stupid.-a-a So why do you even care >>> what Apple does?-a-a Apple is WAY out of your league.-a Do you whine
about the
price BMWs?-a-a Ferarris?-a-a 24 carat diamonds?
He's a troll, and trolling Apple fans gets him the attention that he
craves.-a Why so many people bother with his nonsense, I do not know.
Some people just like it when there's activity, even if the reason for
it is a guy who clearly just wants us all to talk in circles. To Joel's credit, he's not as annoying as Snit Brock McNuggets Michael Glasser Prescott Parasite and Computer Guy.
The MacBook Pro line is really the high end of laptops, in truth.
Yep, and I might eventually get one. It all really depends if I can
figure out what use I might have for the added processing power.
Otherwise, the Air is just fine. Its 256GB storage is little, but I
have a crapload of external storage to go with it that serves me just
fine.
If I wanted a computer to use on an airplane/etc., the MBP is the
obvious buy.-a I'm a little unconvinced with WindowsARM because it's so
small a market, yet.-a Then again, maybe they'd sell me on one.
Microsoft's marketing is so bad that they wouldn't manage to sell water
to someone dying of thirst in the Sahara. If they did, the man would
quickly learn that the corporation accidentally poisoned the water bottle.
On 9/10/2026 4:41 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-10 3:59 p.m., chrisv wrote:
Nick Charles wrote:
Joel W. Crump wrote:
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
I mean ... you are so fucking stupid.
Leasing is for COMPANIES.-a The same COMPANIES that LEASE Windows PCs. >>>> Usually for 3 years.-a Then the COMPANIES return them and LEASE new
models.
So the COMPANIES don't have to worry about
buying/maintenance/disposal/resale and other shit regarding 1000s or
tens
of 1000s of hardware.
AGAIN, you are not everyone.-a More options means more sales and
ability to
handle ALL customers.
We all know you are dirt poor and rock stupid.-a-a So why do you even >>>> care
what Apple does?-a-a Apple is WAY out of your league.-a Do you whine
about the
price BMWs?-a-a Ferarris?-a-a 24 carat diamonds?
He's a troll, and trolling Apple fans gets him the attention that he
craves.-a Why so many people bother with his nonsense, I do not know.
Some people just like it when there's activity, even if the reason for
it is a guy who clearly just wants us all to talk in circles. To
Joel's credit, he's not as annoying as Snit Brock McNuggets Michael
Glasser Prescott Parasite and Computer Guy.
It's fair to call my stuff about Apple trolling, even though I really do mean what I say if you take it the right way, the real point I'm making
is that Apple is about grift, exploit the first worlders, take their
money, people will say that about "M$" but yet they actually put
something back into the market.
On 9/10/2026 4:49 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
The MacBook Pro line is really the high end of laptops, in truth.
Yep, and I might eventually get one. It all really depends if I can
figure out what use I might have for the added processing power.
Otherwise, the Air is just fine. Its 256GB storage is little, but I
have a crapload of external storage to go with it that serves me
just fine.
If I wanted a computer to use on an airplane/etc., the MBP is the
obvious buy.-a I'm a little unconvinced with WindowsARM because it's
so small a market, yet.-a Then again, maybe they'd sell me on one.
Microsoft's marketing is so bad that they wouldn't manage to sell
water to someone dying of thirst in the Sahara. If they did, the man
would quickly learn that the corporation accidentally poisoned the
water bottle.
I think the problem is that they can't figure out how to make a WinARM laptop genuinely have the experience of an Alienware kind of thing, they need IntelAMD to really deliver that, basic computing works on Windows
or Linux for ARM, but gaming hasn't gotten there yet.
On 2026-09-10 4:56 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2026 4:41 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-10 3:59 p.m., chrisv wrote:
He's [JWC is] a troll, and trolling Apple fans gets him the attention that he
craves.-a Why so many people bother with his nonsense, I do not know.
Some people just like it when there's activity, even if the reason
for it is a guy who clearly just wants us all to talk in circles. To
Joel's credit, he's not as annoying as Snit Brock McNuggets Michael
Glasser Prescott Parasite and Computer Guy.
It's fair to call my stuff about Apple trolling, even though I really
do mean what I say if you take it the right way, the real point I'm
making is that Apple is about grift, exploit the first worlders, take
their money, people will say that about "M$" but yet they actually put
something back into the market.
My only response is that Apple, since the very beginning, humanized technology. The first Apple made it possible for people to see what
their computer can produce on a screen, the Apple ][ offered colour and
easy expandability, the Mac eliminated the need to learn commands, the
iPod removed the need for disks and made music management a lot easier,
Mac OS X allowed for greater security and stability in the operating
system and the Mx series of chips significantly increased processing
power while also significantly increasing battery life and reducing
noise. That is giving back.
On 9/10/2026 5:37 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-10 4:56 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2026 4:41 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-10 3:59 p.m., chrisv wrote:
Some people just like it when there's activity, even if the reason
He's [JWC is] a troll, and trolling Apple fans gets him the
attention that he
craves.-a Why so many people bother with his nonsense, I do not know. >>>>
for it is a guy who clearly just wants us all to talk in circles. To
Joel's credit, he's not as annoying as Snit Brock McNuggets Michael
Glasser Prescott Parasite and Computer Guy.
It's fair to call my stuff about Apple trolling, even though I really
do mean what I say if you take it the right way, the real point I'm
making is that Apple is about grift, exploit the first worlders, take
their money, people will say that about "M$" but yet they actually
put something back into the market.
My only response is that Apple, since the very beginning, humanized
technology. The first Apple made it possible for people to see what
their computer can produce on a screen, the Apple ][ offered colour
and easy expandability, the Mac eliminated the need to learn commands,
the iPod removed the need for disks and made music management a lot
easier, Mac OS X allowed for greater security and stability in the
operating system and the Mx series of chips significantly increased
processing power while also significantly increasing battery life and
reducing noise. That is giving back.
They give back ideas and standards, yes.-a Sometimes making a difference, admittedly.-a Microsoft is more of the constant renewing of imagination, though.
On 9/10/2026 9:07 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:46 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 8:16 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 15:19, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 5:30 PM, badgolferman wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be >>>>>>> leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh,
only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based
SoC, what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more
advanced systems.
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
By not being drain bamaged from acid and being a lame company that
relies on its cult draw to suck money out of affluent people in the
first world, who can't fathom using Winblows, and ew Linux.-a FFS,
Apple is on its last legs, here.-a They're leasing everything to
everyone if they're stupid enough to sign on to that.-a They're putting >>> the water for internal AI in the iPhone unit.
They're leasing because they came to the realization that a lot of
people are happy to change their hardware every two years and because
the economic situation has become one in which people are already having
trouble buying their essentials, much less the luxuries. Whether you are
leasing because you like the feeling of new or because you can't afford
one lump sum, Apple has something for you.
It's a plausible business strategy, actually, yeah, because they accept trades to newer devices, why not just make it a lease, I get that, but
it's kind of unusual for this type of thing in my book because a computer/phone/watch isn't a car, the concept of leasing such just
doesn't meld for me the same way. It's like they're hyping up the real value of it, which is typical of Apple, I guess.
Apple is hitting a brick wall, hard.-a Much like the Republicans.
I'm sure they've lost a lot of value on the stock market to reflect
that... right?
Not yet. But at some point you have to think the grift will lose its pull.
CrudeSausage wrote:
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh,
only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based SoC, >>>>> what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more advanced
systems.
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
By not being drain bamaged from acid and being a lame company that
relies on its cult draw to suck money out of affluent people in the
first world, who can't fathom using Winblows, and ew Linux.-a FFS, Apple >>> is on its last legs, here.-a They're leasing everything to everyone if
they're stupid enough to sign on to that.-a They're putting the water for >>> internal AI in the iPhone unit.
They're leasing because they came to the realization that a lot of
people are happy to change their hardware every two years and because
the economic situation has become one in which people are already having
trouble buying their essentials, much less the luxuries. Whether you are
leasing because you like the feeling of new or because you can't afford
one lump sum, Apple has something for you.
We have a thread on the Apple/Android newsgroups about what the five most common things are that make people want to ditch that iPhone (or Android device) and want to make them literally stand in line all night outside the phone store just waiting for the 1st chance to trade it in for a new phone.
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2026 17:14:40 +0200
Message-ID: <116hn4v$2g5d$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
Now that both Android & iOS development has plateaued, what are the key
factors that make any of us want to replace our current mobile device?
1. Battery loses capacity & it's too hard to replace so we buy a new phone
2. Storage is stressed but if it can't be replaced, we buy a bigger phone
3. Hardware is damaged & it's too expensive to fix (e.g., cracked screen)
4. Device doesn't do what we want it to do (e.g., bigger camera perhaps?)
5. OEM stops full updates of the entire device (so it's now toxic)
6. ?
The main problem with iPhones, in terms of that two-year service life that CrudeSausage (a known Apple religious zealot troll) alludes to,
is the
crappy batteries that Apple put into the iPhone, and still puts in them.
Just like how Apple got burned in AI due to the laughably anemic RAM Apple used to put into iPhones until recently, the garbage battery in all iPhones is the weakest link, in terms of the overall lifetime of the mobile device.
In fact, despite Apple's claims of efficiency that nobody on the planet
could reproduce
(want to guess why?),
in the first release of the EU
standards for battery efficiency, Apple's devices fared poorly when you compare to all of Apple's marketing claims about "efficiency".
The fact Apple's current promised full support is vastly shorter than the latest Samsung & Google flagships (which are what compete with the iPhone)
The microsecond that Apple releases a new major release (e.g., iOS 17 to
iOS 18), full hotfix support INSTANTLY drops for every other release.
That's part of why Apple owners can't wait to get rid of that damn iPhone.
Apple is hitting a brick wall, hard.-a Much like the Republicans.
I'm sure they've lost a lot of value on the stock market to reflect
that... right?
The instant the technical discussion gets to politics, it's evidence that
the trolls have infested the thread as they have no technical value to add.
The MacBook Pro line is really the high end of laptops, in truth.
Yep, and I might eventually get one. It all really depends if I can >>>>> figure out what use I might have for the added processing power.
Otherwise, the Air is just fine. Its 256GB storage is little, but I >>>>> have a crapload of external storage to go with it that serves me
just fine.
If I wanted a computer to use on an airplane/etc., the MBP is the
obvious buy.-a I'm a little unconvinced with WindowsARM because it's
so small a market, yet.-a Then again, maybe they'd sell me on one.
Microsoft's marketing is so bad that they wouldn't manage to sell
water to someone dying of thirst in the Sahara. If they did, the man
would quickly learn that the corporation accidentally poisoned the
water bottle.
I think the problem is that they can't figure out how to make a WinARM
laptop genuinely have the experience of an Alienware kind of thing,
they need IntelAMD to really deliver that, basic computing works on
Windows or Linux for ARM, but gaming hasn't gotten there yet.
The games are made for the x86 or x86-64 platform, so getting them to
work on the ARM platform will require the games to be recompiled (which results in a re-release) or a compatibility layer (which will reduce performance). It's not going to happen. The PC market will simply
continue to use the x86-64 platform because of its unwillingness to disconnect from the enormous, existing software library. If people want greater energy efficiency and quiet operation, the only solution comes
from Apple.
It's fair to call my stuff about Apple trolling, even though I
really do mean what I say if you take it the right way, the real
point I'm making is that Apple is about grift, exploit the first
worlders, take their money, people will say that about "M$" but yet
they actually put something back into the market.
My only response is that Apple, since the very beginning, humanized
technology. The first Apple made it possible for people to see what
their computer can produce on a screen, the Apple ][ offered colour
and easy expandability, the Mac eliminated the need to learn
commands, the iPod removed the need for disks and made music
management a lot easier, Mac OS X allowed for greater security and
stability in the operating system and the Mx series of chips
significantly increased processing power while also significantly
increasing battery life and reducing noise. That is giving back.
They give back ideas and standards, yes.-a Sometimes making a
difference, admittedly.-a Microsoft is more of the constant renewing of
imagination, though.
Name something Microsoft has done that can be considered imaginative.
On 9/10/2026 3:34 AM, Chris wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
"Content not available in your region"
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
I mean, you could try and post something others can see...
Try https://imgur.com/a/7lOmLX4
Nope. imgur is the problem, not the link. It blocks access in Europe.
https://i.postimg.cc/kGX2Wy5d/apple-leasing-everything-what-the-hell.png
Joel W. Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/10/2026 9:07 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:46 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
FFS,
Apple is on its last legs, here.-a They're leasing everything to
everyone if they're stupid enough to sign on to that.-a They're putting >>>> the water for internal AI in the iPhone unit.
They're leasing because they came to the realization that a lot of
people are happy to change their hardware every two years and because
the economic situation has become one in which people are already having >>> trouble buying their essentials, much less the luxuries. Whether you are >>> leasing because you like the feeling of new or because you can't afford
one lump sum, Apple has something for you.
It's a plausible business strategy, actually, yeah, because they accept
trades to newer devices, why not just make it a lease, I get that, but
it's kind of unusual for this type of thing in my book because a
computer/phone/watch isn't a car, the concept of leasing such just
doesn't meld for me the same way. It's like they're hyping up the real
value of it, which is typical of Apple, I guess.
Apple is hitting a brick wall, hard.-a Much like the Republicans.
I'm sure they've lost a lot of value on the stock market to reflect
that... right?
Not yet. But at some point you have to think the grift will lose its pull.
Your cope is very strong....
We have a thread on the Apple/Android newsgroups about what the five most common things are that make people want to ditch that iPhone (or Android device) and want to make them literally stand in line all night outside the phone store just waiting for the 1st chance to trade it in for a new phone.
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2026 17:14:40 +0200
Message-ID: <116hn4v$2g5d$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
Now that both Android & iOS development has plateaued, what are the key
factors that make any of us want to replace our current mobile device?
1. Battery loses capacity & it's too hard to replace so we buy a new phone
2. Storage is stressed but if it can't be replaced, we buy a bigger phone
3. Hardware is damaged & it's too expensive to fix (e.g., cracked screen)
4. Device doesn't do what we want it to do (e.g., bigger camera perhaps?)
5. OEM stops full updates of the entire device (so it's now toxic)
6. ?
The main problem with iPhones, in terms of that two-year service life that CrudeSausage (a known Apple religious zealot troll) alludes to, is the
crappy batteries that Apple put into the iPhone, and still puts in them.
Just like how Apple got burned in AI due to the laughably anemic RAM Apple used to put into iPhones until recently, the garbage battery in all iPhones is the weakest link, in terms of the overall lifetime of the mobile device.
In fact, despite Apple's claims of efficiency that nobody on the planet
could reproduce (want to guess why?), in the first release of the EU standards for battery efficiency, Apple's devices fared poorly when you compare to all of Apple's marketing claims about "efficiency".
The fact iPhones lack storage expandability also kills the iPhone sooner
than Android, given 60.45% of Androids of today still have that sd slot.
The outrageous expense of a damaged iPhone, again, comparing to Android, is also a reason Apple owners queue up outside the Apple store for the first chance they have to get rid of that thing, but there's more to the story.
The fact Apple's current promised full support is vastly shorter than the latest Samsung & Google flagships (which are what compete with the iPhone)
is another reason people wait outside the Apple store talking about how desperate they are to get rid of that toxic phone which lacks updates.
Remember, Apple has *never* in its entire history, *ever* fully supported more than a single major release at any given time (for iOS or for macOS).
The microsecond that Apple releases a new major release (e.g., iOS 17 to
iOS 18), full hotfix support INSTANTLY drops for every other release.
That's part of why Apple owners can't wait to get rid of that damn iPhone.
Apple is hitting a brick wall, hard.N++ Much like the Republicans.
I'm sure they've lost a lot of value on the stock market to reflect
that... right?
The instant the technical discussion gets to politics, it's evidence that
the trolls have infested the thread as they have no technical value to add.
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
"Content not available in your region"
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
I mean, you could try and post something others can see...
Try https://imgur.com/a/7lOmLX4
Nope. imgur is the problem, not the link. It blocks access in Europe.
https://i.postimg.cc/kGX2Wy5d/apple-leasing-everything-what-the-hell.png
jfc what a spam infested abomination! And still no image.
Given this is a text based medium why not just describe, in your own words, what it is you want to rile against Apple. This time.
On 9/9/2026 8:16 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 15:19, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 5:30 PM, badgolferman wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh,
only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based SoC,
what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more advanced
systems.
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
By not being drain bamaged from acid and being a lame company that
relies on its cult draw to suck money out of affluent people in the
first world, who can't fathom using Winblows, and ew Linux.-a FFS, Apple
is on its last legs, here.-a They're leasing everything to everyone if they're stupid enough to sign on to that.-a They're putting the water for internal AI in the iPhone unit.
Apple is hitting a brick wall, hard.-a Much like the Republicans.
is the
crappy batteries that Apple put into the iPhone, and still puts in them.
IPhone batteries compare extremely well with larger capacity competitor batteries. It's quite tragic how you can't comprehend the meaning of efficiency.
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
By not being drain bamaged from acid and being a lame company that
relies on its cult draw to suck money out of affluent people in the
first world, who can't fathom using Winblows, and ew Linux.-a FFS,
Apple is on its last legs, here.-a They're leasing everything to
everyone if they're stupid enough to sign on to that.-a They're putting
the water for internal AI in the iPhone unit.
Apple is hitting a brick wall, hard.-a Much like the Republicans.
None of that is explaining a single way in which Linux or Windows 11 is "more advanced".
is the
crappy batteries that Apple put into the iPhone, and still puts in them.
My iPhone 13 is 4 years-old and its battery is still at 86%. What a
terrible battery, I must admit.
Chris wrote:
is the
crappy batteries that Apple put into the iPhone, and still puts in them.
IPhone batteries compare extremely well with larger capacity competitor
batteries. It's quite tragic how you can't comprehend the meaning of
efficiency.
Given what I claimed about the battery efficiency,
for you to brazenly deny
that none of the Apple iPhones earned an A in efficiency in the first round of the mandated EU benchmarks,
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
On 9/10/2026 6:03 PM, Chris wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
"Content not available in your region"
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
I mean, you could try and post something others can see...
Try https://imgur.com/a/7lOmLX4
Nope. imgur is the problem, not the link. It blocks access in Europe.
https://i.postimg.cc/kGX2Wy5d/apple-leasing-everything-what-the-hell.png
jfc what a spam infested abomination! And still no image.
Given this is a text based medium why not just describe, in your own words, >> what it is you want to rile against Apple. This time.
It's just kind of silly to suddenly talk about leasing their products,
when computer tech is becoming such a commodity, they're desperately clinging to the idea that their customers need the latest and greatest
thing - to get their money.
On 2026-09-09 17:46, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 8:16 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 15:19, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 5:30 PM, badgolferman wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be >>>>>> leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh,
only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based
SoC, what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more
advanced systems.
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
By not being drain bamaged from acid and being a lame company that
relies on its cult draw to suck money out of affluent people in the
first world, who can't fathom using Winblows, and ew Linux.-a FFS,
Apple is on its last legs, here.-a They're leasing everything to
everyone if they're stupid enough to sign on to that.-a They're putting
the water for internal AI in the iPhone unit.
Apple is hitting a brick wall, hard.-a Much like the Republicans.
None of that is explaining a single way in which Linux or Windows 11 is "more advanced".
Chris wrote:
is the
crappy batteries that Apple put into the iPhone, and still puts in them.
IPhone batteries compare extremely well with larger capacity competitor
batteries. It's quite tragic how you can't comprehend the meaning of
efficiency.
Given what I claimed about the battery efficiency, for you to brazenly deny that none of the Apple iPhones earned an A in efficiency in the first round of the mandated EU benchmarks, is what you Apple religious zealots do.
You Apple religious zealots brazenly deny what nobody sensible would deny.
Why?
CrudeSausage wrote:
is the
crappy batteries that Apple put into the iPhone, and still puts in them.
My iPhone 13 is 4 years-old and its battery is still at 86%. What a
terrible battery, I must admit.
For God's sake. These Apple nutcases feel that if I say I own a red car,
then they literally believe everyone in the entire world owns a red car.
This CrudeSausage nutjob, because he got 86% out of a 4-year old battery, that, by God, that must mean all the benchmarks in the world are wrong.
Where do these Apple religious zealot nutcases come from?
Not one of them knows a single thing about Apple battery capacity, efficiency, overall life (i.e., in number of charge/discharge cycles).
This CrudeSausage nutjob claims all engineering specs are meaningless
by claiming that everyone gets the battery life that he says he gets.
On 9/10/2026 9:01 PM, Alan wrote:
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
By not being drain bamaged from acid and being a lame company that
relies on its cult draw to suck money out of affluent people in the
first world, who can't fathom using Winblows, and ew Linux.-a FFS,
Apple is on its last legs, here.-a They're leasing everything to
everyone if they're stupid enough to sign on to that.-a They're
putting the water for internal AI in the iPhone unit.
Apple is hitting a brick wall, hard.-a Much like the Republicans.
None of that is explaining a single way in which Linux or Windows 11
is "more advanced".
True, but that's the thing, you only know if you're in on it.-a Apple doesn't want you to be.-a They want you to beLIEve you're safe with them.
-aIt's only another $400, right? :)
On 2026-09-10 9:01 p.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 17:46, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 8:16 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 15:19, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 5:30 PM, badgolferman wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be >>>>>>> leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh,
only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based
SoC, what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more
advanced systems.
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
By not being drain bamaged from acid and being a lame company that
relies on its cult draw to suck money out of affluent people in the
first world, who can't fathom using Winblows, and ew Linux.-a FFS,
Apple is on its last legs, here.-a They're leasing everything to
everyone if they're stupid enough to sign on to that.-a They're
putting the water for internal AI in the iPhone unit.
Apple is hitting a brick wall, hard.-a Much like the Republicans.
None of that is explaining a single way in which Linux or Windows 11
is "more advanced".
I'll make the case for just one thing MacOS offers that neither Windows
nor Linux offer: a filesystem which takes NVMe into consideration. APFS ensures that the system recognizes the storage as being of that format,
and provides exceptional benefits. NTFS was created a time when such
things didn't exist. I imagine that the ever-improving filesystems in
Linux have such benefits, but what does it matter when the operating
system itself doesn't attract anyone?
On 9/10/2026 8:52 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:16 p.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 15:19, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 5:30 PM, badgolferman wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be >>>>>> leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh,
only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based
SoC, what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more
advanced systems.
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
Don't worry, Joel is a technical genius and will be able to explain it
to you in detail.
The theoretical potential of macOS is equal to the other OSes, but the practical use of Windows and Linux is superior.
On 9/9/2026 8:19 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 16:36, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 7:31 PM, Your Name wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
The new leasing programme is just one option. You can still buy the
phone (or any other Apple device) in the same ways you could before
- retail store, webstore, phone provider plan, etc.
Some people are stupid enough to think that leasing thngs is a good
idea, partly because they then get a new model every year. The
reality is that it always costs you a lot more in the long run.
You're not wrong as such - but I would point out that they're
introducing leasing at a time when personal-computer hardware is
becoming a literal commodity.-a They're preserving the Apple Way of
high prices and the sense of high quality.
Actually, they're introducing leasing at a time when personal computer
hardware (no hyphen required) is becoming MORE expensive as data
centres drive up the demandrCobut not the supplyrCoof some of the most
vital components.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GS8BRTNF/?th=1
That box is basically identical to mine.-a $10 less than the price I paid
at the time I did.-a It's not a supercomputer by any means, but it'll run Windows 11 well, Apple is selling you stuff you don't need.
explain[] a single way in which Linux or Windows 11
is "more advanced".
True, but that's the thing, you only know if you're in on it.-a Apple
doesn't want you to be.-a They want you to beLIEve you're safe with
them. -a-aIt's only another $400, right? :)
I've used all three, dimwit.
But you (implicitly) claim you know ways in which Windows 11 and Linux
are "more advanced".
So give some examples.
On 2026-09-10 09:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2026 8:52 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:16 p.m., Alan wrote:
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
Don't worry, Joel is a technical genius and will be able to explain
it to you in detail.
The theoretical potential of macOS is equal to the other OSes, but the
practical use of Windows and Linux is superior.
So you've retracted your claim that they're "more advanced", then?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GS8BRTNF/?th=1
That box [China-sourced mini PC] is basically identical to mine.-a $10 less than the price I
paid at the time I did.-a It's not a supercomputer by any means, but
it'll run Windows 11 well, Apple is selling you stuff you don't need.
The "box" is a no-name product that may not get warranty support one day after you buy it.
On 2026-09-11 06:04, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-10 9:01 p.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 17:46, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 8:16 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 15:19, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 5:30 PM, badgolferman wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be >>>>>>>> leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh, >>>>>> only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based
SoC, what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more
advanced systems.
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
By not being drain bamaged from acid and being a lame company that
relies on its cult draw to suck money out of affluent people in the
first world, who can't fathom using Winblows, and ew Linux.-a FFS,
Apple is on its last legs, here.-a They're leasing everything to
everyone if they're stupid enough to sign on to that.-a They're
putting the water for internal AI in the iPhone unit.
Apple is hitting a brick wall, hard.-a Much like the Republicans.
None of that is explaining a single way in which Linux or Windows 11
is "more advanced".
I'll make the case for just one thing MacOS offers that neither
Windows nor Linux offer: a filesystem which takes NVMe into
consideration. APFS ensures that the system recognizes the storage as
being of that format, and provides exceptional benefits. NTFS was
created a time when such things didn't exist. I imagine that the ever-
improving filesystems in Linux have such benefits, but what does it
matter when the operating system itself doesn't attract anyone?
Hmmm...is that right?
I wasn't aware of anything about Apple's filesystem that specifically benefited SSD storage.
But a quick "Google" shows that it does!
That's cool!
On 2026-09-09 17:49, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 8:19 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-09 16:36, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/9/2026 7:31 PM, Your Name wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be >>>>>> leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
The new leasing programme is just one option. You can still buy the >>>>> phone (or any other Apple device) in the same ways you could before >>>>> - retail store, webstore, phone provider plan, etc.
Some people are stupid enough to think that leasing thngs is a good >>>>> idea, partly because they then get a new model every year. The
reality is that it always costs you a lot more in the long run.
You're not wrong as such - but I would point out that they're
introducing leasing at a time when personal-computer hardware is
becoming a literal commodity.-a They're preserving the Apple Way of
high prices and the sense of high quality.
Actually, they're introducing leasing at a time when personal
computer hardware (no hyphen required) is becoming MORE expensive as
data centres drive up the demandrCobut not the supplyrCoof some of the
most vital components.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GS8BRTNF/?th=1
That box is basically identical to mine.-a $10 less than the price I
paid at the time I did.-a It's not a supercomputer by any means, but
it'll run Windows 11 well, Apple is selling you stuff you don't need.
The "box" is a no-name product that may not get warranty support one day after you buy it.
On 9/9/2026 8:16 PM, Alan wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
And are they holding a gun to anyone's head to make them accept a
lease, hmmm?
I know, man, lol, but you have to admit they're getting desperate.
-a No
wonder M$ tolerates the gray-market licenses on the cheap PCs, it's
dooming Apple little by little as people wake up to the fact they've
been getting scathed for money by Apple, compared to the competition.
All Apple can do is double down.-a They're putting *internal* AI, with
the water, in the iPhone unit, heh, and leasing their devices.
Get ready for Apple to implode.
On 9/10/2026 2:37 AM, Your Name wrote:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GS8BRTNF/?th=1
That box is basically identical to mine.-a $10 less than the price I
paid at the time I did.-a It's not a supercomputer by any means, but
it'll run Windows 11 well, Apple is selling you stuff you don't need.
I wouldn't use Windoze even if they were giving away top-end computers
for free.
"Windoze" really ain't a thing, people with talent make Microsoft's OS
look cool.
Apple's devices are not "expensive", they're simply "high-end", pretty
much the same price as the high-end devices from the likes of Samsung,
Sony, etc. Apple doesn't bother with the el cheapo low-end device market.
Yeah but at some point the "el cheapo" is virtually as good.-a Apple is flailing, desperately clinging to their grift.-a It won't work, because
the commodity computer is emerging.
On 9/11/2026 4:36 PM, Alan wrote:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GS8BRTNF/?th=1
That box [China-sourced mini PC] is basically identical to mine.-a $10
less than the price I paid at the time I did.-a It's not a
supercomputer by any means, but it'll run Windows 11 well, Apple is
selling you stuff you don't need.
The "box" is a no-name product that may not get warranty support one
day after you buy it.
Oh yeah I want a warranty, ROFL!
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
And are they holding a gun to anyone's head to make them accept a
lease, hmmm?
I know, man, lol, but you have to admit they're getting desperate.
No. I don't have to admit that at all.
-a No wonder M$ tolerates the gray-market licenses on the cheap PCs,
it's dooming Apple little by little as people wake up to the fact
they've been getting scathed for money by Apple, compared to the
competition.
And yet Windows marketshare is going down and down more quickly than ever:
<https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/ #monthly-202509-202608>
All Apple can do is double down.-a They're putting *internal* AI, with
the water, in the iPhone unit, heh, and leasing their devices.
Lots of manufacturers are using vapour chambers for heat control, dimwit.
Manufacturer-a-a-a Cooling Tech-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Fluid-a-a-a-a-a-a Enclosure Material
------------------------------------------------------------------ Apple-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Ultra-thin vapor-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Stainless Steel /
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a Copper
Samsung-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers &-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Loop heat pipes-a-a-a-a-a-a water
Xiaomi /-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Large-surface 3D-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper / Titanium
OnePlus-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a alloys
Google-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water
You were saying, asshole?
On 9/11/2026 4:35 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-10 09:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2026 8:52 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:16 p.m., Alan wrote:
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
Don't worry, Joel is a technical genius and will be able to explain
it to you in detail.
The theoretical potential of macOS is equal to the other OSes, but
the practical use of Windows and Linux is superior.
So you've retracted your claim that they're "more advanced", then?
I guess, if you want to make it about that, yes.
On 9/11/2026 4:32 PM, Alan wrote:
explain[] a single way in which Linux or Windows 11 is "more advanced". >>>True, but that's the thing, you only know if you're in on it.-a Apple
doesn't want you to be.-a They want you to beLIEve you're safe with
them. -a-aIt's only another $400, right? :)
I've used all three, dimwit.
But you (implicitly) claim you know ways in which Windows 11 and Linux
are "more advanced".
So give some examples.
You should already know, if you've "used all three", bright guy.-a I'm
not here to school you on the specifics.
On 2026-09-10 00:02, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2026 2:37 AM, Your Name wrote:
Apple's devices are not "expensive", they're simply "high-end",
pretty much the same price as the high-end devices from the likes of
Samsung, Sony, etc. Apple doesn't bother with the el cheapo low-end
device market.
Yeah but at some point the "el cheapo" is virtually as good.-a Apple is
flailing, desperately clinging to their grift.-a It won't work, because
the commodity computer is emerging.
Apple's market share continues to climb; currently standing at more than
26% of all desktop OS usage...
...which is three times Linux usage.
Meanwhile, Windows continues to decline and ever more rapidly:
<https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/ #monthly-202509-202608>
On 9/11/2026 4:53 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-10 00:02, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2026 2:37 AM, Your Name wrote:
Apple's devices are not "expensive", they're simply "high-end",
pretty much the same price as the high-end devices from the likes of
Samsung, Sony, etc. Apple doesn't bother with the el cheapo low-end
device market.
Yeah but at some point the "el cheapo" is virtually as good.-a Apple
is flailing, desperately clinging to their grift.-a It won't work,
because the commodity computer is emerging.
Apple's market share continues to climb; currently standing at more
than 26% of all desktop OS usage...
...which is three times Linux usage.
Meanwhile, Windows continues to decline and ever more rapidly:
<https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/
#monthly-202509-202608>
OK, I'm going to give this a shot.-a Tell me how Apple will become mainstream.-a Is it that slightly less-expensive laptop?-a 'Cause it ain't the Mac mini, for sure.-a That thing is a money pit.-a Windows isn't as enormous as it once was, but it would be hard to see Apple putting a big dent in it without expanding their own hardware offerings.
On 9/11/2026 4:53 PM, Alan wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/cOex1Kt.png
There you have it, folks, they're putting their products out to be
leased.
I mean ... fuck Apple.
And are they holding a gun to anyone's head to make them accept a
lease, hmmm?
I know, man, lol, but you have to admit they're getting desperate.
No. I don't have to admit that at all.
Leasing might make sense in a way, with some of their products, I admit,
but smart consumers won't utilize it for something like a phone, too
much risk that something happens to it and you get stuck with the bill,
I mean how are we treating a smartphone like it's a damn car?-a I'm
pretty confident that I won't break my phone.-a But I'd be less confident when it was leased, because what if, I drop the phone and it needs
repair, I'm screwed.
-a No wonder M$ tolerates the gray-market licenses on the cheap PCs,
it's dooming Apple little by little as people wake up to the fact
they've been getting scathed for money by Apple, compared to the
competition.
And yet Windows marketshare is going down and down more quickly than
ever:
<https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/
#monthly-202509-202608>
Yeah, I buy that, actually.-a Lots of people are using something else, whether in terms of operating systems or devices altogether.-a But
there's still nothing for a desktop system that can replace Microsoft's platform.
All Apple can do is double down.-a They're putting *internal* AI, with
the water, in the iPhone unit, heh, and leasing their devices.
Lots of manufacturers are using vapour chambers for heat control, dimwit.
Manufacturer-a-a-a Cooling Tech-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Fluid-a-a-a-a-a-a Enclosure Material
------------------------------------------------------------------
Apple-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Ultra-thin vapor-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Stainless Steel /
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a Copper
Samsung-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers &-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Loop heat pipes-a-a-a-a-a-a water
Xiaomi /-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Large-surface 3D-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper / Titanium
OnePlus-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a alloys
Google-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water
You were saying, asshole?
I dunno, man, my mom got me a Galaxy S26, I don't see all this AI
bullshit with it, maybe there are "special" models that target that
crap, I just use the fucking phone as a smartphone.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GS8BRTNF/?th=1
That box [China-sourced mini PC] is basically identical to mine.
$10 less than the price I paid at the time I did.-a It's not a
supercomputer by any means, but it'll run Windows 11 well, Apple is
selling you stuff you don't need.
The "box" is a no-name product that may not get warranty support one
day after you buy it.
Oh yeah I want a warranty, ROFL!
You DON'T want a warranty?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
On 2026-09-11 13:43, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 4:35 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-10 09:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2026 8:52 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:16 p.m., Alan wrote:
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
Don't worry, Joel is a technical genius and will be able to explain >>>>> it to you in detail.
The theoretical potential of macOS is equal to the other OSes, but
the practical use of Windows and Linux is superior.
So you've retracted your claim that they're "more advanced", then?
I guess, if you want to make it about that, yes.
YOU made it about that.
And YOU couldn't state ONE THING that is supposedly "more advanced"
about either Windows or Linux.
Leasing might make sense in a way, with some of their products, I
admit, but smart consumers won't utilize it for something like a
phone, too much risk that something happens to it and you get stuck
with the bill, I mean how are we treating a smartphone like it's a
damn car?-a I'm pretty confident that I won't break my phone.-a But I'd
be less confident when it was leased, because what if, I drop the
phone and it needs repair, I'm screwed.
That is one of the stupider things you've ever written.
And that's saying a LOT.
-a No wonder M$ tolerates the gray-market licenses on the cheap PCs,
it's dooming Apple little by little as people wake up to the fact
they've been getting scathed for money by Apple, compared to the
competition.
And yet Windows marketshare is going down and down more quickly than
ever:
<https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/
#monthly-202509-202608>
Yeah, I buy that, actually.-a Lots of people are using something else,
whether in terms of operating systems or devices altogether.-a But
there's still nothing for a desktop system that can replace
Microsoft's platform.
Yes, there is: macOS.
Based on my empirical data of how much my clients need support, I can guarantee you that unless you have a piece of niche-a software that you
can only run on Windows, you are always better off using macOS.
You will have far less need for support.
All Apple can do is double down.-a They're putting *internal* AI,
with the water, in the iPhone unit, heh, and leasing their devices.
Lots of manufacturers are using vapour chambers for heat control,
dimwit.
Manufacturer-a-a-a Cooling Tech-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Fluid-a-a-a-a-a-a Enclosure Material
------------------------------------------------------------------
Apple-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Ultra-thin vapor-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Stainless Steel /
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a Copper
Samsung-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers &-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Loop heat pipes-a-a-a-a-a-a water
Xiaomi /-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Large-surface 3D-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper / Titanium
OnePlus-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a alloys
Google-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper >>> -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water
You were saying, asshole?
I dunno, man, my mom got me a Galaxy S26, I don't see all this AI
bullshit with it, maybe there are "special" models that target that
crap, I just use the fucking phone as a smartphone.
"with the water", dipshit.
On 9/11/2026 5:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-11 13:43, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 4:35 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-10 09:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2026 8:52 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:16 p.m., Alan wrote:
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
Don't worry, Joel is a technical genius and will be able to
explain it to you in detail.
The theoretical potential of macOS is equal to the other OSes, but
the practical use of Windows and Linux is superior.
So you've retracted your claim that they're "more advanced", then?
I guess, if you want to make it about that, yes.
YOU made it about that.
And YOU couldn't state ONE THING that is supposedly "more advanced"
about either Windows or Linux.
I was talking about the experience, rather than the hardware.
On 9/11/2026 5:38 PM, Alan wrote:
Leasing might make sense in a way, with some of their products, I
admit, but smart consumers won't utilize it for something like a
phone, too much risk that something happens to it and you get stuck
with the bill, I mean how are we treating a smartphone like it's a
damn car?-a I'm pretty confident that I won't break my phone.-a But I'd >>> be less confident when it was leased, because what if, I drop the
phone and it needs repair, I'm screwed.
That is one of the stupider things you've ever written.
And that's saying a LOT.
So I'm not taking a risk of having to pay, for damage to the product I'm leasing?-a That's the thing that makes leasing an iPhone so ludicrous,
it's not a car, one clumsy move can end its life, we already have to
cope with that carrying these devices around, the lease puts an onerous concern on the customer.
-a No wonder M$ tolerates the gray-market licenses on the cheap PCs, >>>>> it's dooming Apple little by little as people wake up to the fact
they've been getting scathed for money by Apple, compared to the
competition.
And yet Windows marketshare is going down and down more quickly than
ever:
<https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/
#monthly-202509-202608>
Yeah, I buy that, actually.-a Lots of people are using something else,
whether in terms of operating systems or devices altogether.-a But
there's still nothing for a desktop system that can replace
Microsoft's platform.
Yes, there is: macOS.
Based on my empirical data of how much my clients need support, I can
guarantee you that unless you have a piece of niche-a software that you
can only run on Windows, you are always better off using macOS.
You will have far less need for support.
I can't argue with that, I guess, you know what your work in that area
is, I respect that.-a But I'm not convinced that the Mac is on the rise.
It could peak and go back down, even, with the goofy stunts that Apple
is only more and more known for, as time goes on.
All Apple can do is double down.-a They're putting *internal* AI,
with the water, in the iPhone unit, heh, and leasing their devices.
Lots of manufacturers are using vapour chambers for heat control,
dimwit.
Manufacturer-a-a-a Cooling Tech-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Fluid-a-a-a-a-a-a Enclosure Material
------------------------------------------------------------------
Apple-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Ultra-thin vapor-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Stainless Steel /
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a Copper
Samsung-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers &-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper >>>> -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Loop heat pipes-a-a-a-a-a-a water
Xiaomi /-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Large-surface 3D-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper / Titanium
OnePlus-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a alloys
Google-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper >>>> -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water
You were saying, asshole?
I dunno, man, my mom got me a Galaxy S26, I don't see all this AI
bullshit with it, maybe there are "special" models that target that
crap, I just use the fucking phone as a smartphone.
"with the water", dipshit.
Yeah, I need to X-Ray my phone, heh.-a I wanna see if there's any of this craziness in it.-a Pretty sure not, though, because I haven't beenYou claimed that Apple was doing something bizarre by using water as a
bombarded with prompts to use AI.
CrudeSausage wrote:
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh,
only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based SoC, >>>>> what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more advanced
systems.
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
By not being drain bamaged from acid and being a lame company that
relies on its cult draw to suck money out of affluent people in the
first world, who can't fathom using Winblows, and ew Linux.N++ FFS, Apple >>> is on its last legs, here.N++ They're leasing everything to everyone if
they're stupid enough to sign on to that.N++ They're putting the water for >>> internal AI in the iPhone unit.
They're leasing because they came to the realization that a lot of
people are happy to change their hardware every two years and because
the economic situation has become one in which people are already having
trouble buying their essentials, much less the luxuries. Whether you are
leasing because you like the feeling of new or because you can't afford
one lump sum, Apple has something for you.
We have a thread on the Apple/Android newsgroups about what the five most common things are that make people want to ditch that iPhone (or Android device) and want to make them literally stand in line all night outside the phone store just waiting for the 1st chance to trade it in for a new phone.
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2026 17:14:40 +0200
Message-ID: <116hn4v$2g5d$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
Now that both Android & iOS development has plateaued, what are the key
factors that make any of us want to replace our current mobile device?
1. Battery loses capacity & it's too hard to replace so we buy a new phone
2. Storage is stressed but if it can't be replaced, we buy a bigger phone
3. Hardware is damaged & it's too expensive to fix (e.g., cracked screen)
4. Device doesn't do what we want it to do (e.g., bigger camera perhaps?)
5. OEM stops full updates of the entire device (so it's now toxic)
6. ?
The main problem with iPhones, in terms of that two-year service life that CrudeSausage (a known Apple religious zealot troll) alludes to, is the
crappy batteries that Apple put into the iPhone, and still puts in them.
The fact iPhones lack storage expandability also kills the iPhone sooner
than Android, given 60.45% of Androids of today still have that sd slot.
And YOU couldn't state ONE THING that is supposedly "more advanced"
about either Windows or Linux.
I was talking about the experience, rather than the hardware.
No. You were talking about the OPERATING SYSTEMS.
Let me refresh your (obviously defective) memory:
"Win11 and Linux are both more advanced systems."
You wrote that, right?
Leasing might make sense in a way, with some of their products, I
admit, but smart consumers won't utilize it for something like a
phone, too much risk that something happens to it and you get stuck
with the bill, I mean how are we treating a smartphone like it's a
damn car?-a I'm pretty confident that I won't break my phone.-a But
I'd be less confident when it was leased, because what if, I drop
the phone and it needs repair, I'm screwed.
That is one of the stupider things you've ever written.
And that's saying a LOT.
So I'm not taking a risk of having to pay, for damage to the product
I'm leasing?-a That's the thing that makes leasing an iPhone so
ludicrous, it's not a car, one clumsy move can end its life, we
already have to cope with that carrying these devices around, the
lease puts an onerous concern on the customer.
You think "one clumsy move" can't end the life of a car (and you)?
Please turn in your driver's license.
And you think you can't add AppleCare which does cover accidental damage?
-a No wonder M$ tolerates the gray-market licenses on the cheap
PCs, it's dooming Apple little by little as people wake up to the >>>>>> fact they've been getting scathed for money by Apple, compared to >>>>>> the competition.
And yet Windows marketshare is going down and down more quickly
than ever:
<https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/
#monthly-202509-202608>
Yeah, I buy that, actually.-a Lots of people are using something
else, whether in terms of operating systems or devices altogether.
But there's still nothing for a desktop system that can replace
Microsoft's platform.
Yes, there is: macOS.
Based on my empirical data of how much my clients need support, I can
guarantee you that unless you have a piece of niche-a software that
you can only run on Windows, you are always better off using macOS.
You will have far less need for support.
I can't argue with that, I guess, you know what your work in that area
is, I respect that.-a But I'm not convinced that the Mac is on the
rise. It could peak and go back down, even, with the goofy stunts that
Apple is only more and more known for, as time goes on.
You mean you're not convinced by the statistics that clearly show it IS
on the rise?
All Apple can do is double down.-a They're putting *internal* AI, >>>>>> with the water, in the iPhone unit, heh, and leasing their devices. >>>>>Lots of manufacturers are using vapour chambers for heat control,
dimwit.
Manufacturer-a-a-a Cooling Tech-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Fluid-a-a-a-a-a-a Enclosure Material
------------------------------------------------------------------
Apple-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Ultra-thin vapor-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Stainless Steel /
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a Copper
Samsung-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers &-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper >>>>> -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Loop heat pipes-a-a-a-a-a-a water
Xiaomi /-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Large-surface 3D-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper / Titanium
OnePlus-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a alloys
Google-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper >>>>> -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water
You were saying, asshole?
I dunno, man, my mom got me a Galaxy S26, I don't see all this AI
bullshit with it, maybe there are "special" models that target that
crap, I just use the fucking phone as a smartphone.
"with the water", dipshit.
Yeah, I need to X-Ray my phone, heh.-a I wanna see if there's any of
this craziness in it.-a Pretty sure not, though, because I haven't been
bombarded with prompts to use AI.
You claimed that Apple was doing something bizarre by using water as a
part of the iPhone's cooling system.
They aren't.
Admit you got it wrong.
On 9/11/2026 6:08 PM, Alan wrote:
And YOU couldn't state ONE THING that is supposedly "more advanced"
about either Windows or Linux.
I was talking about the experience, rather than the hardware.
No. You were talking about the OPERATING SYSTEMS.
Let me refresh your (obviously defective) memory:
"Win11 and Linux are both more advanced systems."
You wrote that, right?
Ah, I see where I went wrong there, I am on a drug binge without sleep,
what I was implying is that Apple automatically wins on "quality", of
the hardware, but they lack something in software to really make the
most of that quality.
And YOU couldn't state ONE THING that is supposedly "more advanced" >>>>> about either Windows or Linux.
I was talking about the experience, rather than the hardware.
No. You were talking about the OPERATING SYSTEMS.
Let me refresh your (obviously defective) memory:
"Win11 and Linux are both more advanced systems."
You wrote that, right?
Ah, I see where I went wrong there, I am on a drug binge without
sleep, what I was implying is that Apple automatically wins on
"quality", of the hardware, but they lack something in software to
really make the most of that quality.
And yet you cannot be specific.
Got it.
On 9/11/2026 6:08 PM, Alan wrote:
Leasing might make sense in a way, with some of their products, I
admit, but smart consumers won't utilize it for something like a
phone, too much risk that something happens to it and you get stuck >>>>> with the bill, I mean how are we treating a smartphone like it's a
damn car?-a I'm pretty confident that I won't break my phone.-a But >>>>> I'd be less confident when it was leased, because what if, I drop
the phone and it needs repair, I'm screwed.
That is one of the stupider things you've ever written.
And that's saying a LOT.
So I'm not taking a risk of having to pay, for damage to the product
I'm leasing?-a That's the thing that makes leasing an iPhone so
ludicrous, it's not a car, one clumsy move can end its life, we
already have to cope with that carrying these devices around, the
lease puts an onerous concern on the customer.
You think "one clumsy move" can't end the life of a car (and you)?
Please turn in your driver's license.
That's the point, though, you don't make the same mistakes with a car
that you *could* with a phone.-a I'm pretty close to perfect in handling phones.-a But that could change in a mere second.
And you think you can't add AppleCare which does cover accidental damage?
I don't go for gimmicky "greater warranties", no, the salesman pitch is ignored.
-a No wonder M$ tolerates the gray-market licenses on the cheap >>>>>>> PCs, it's dooming Apple little by little as people wake up to the >>>>>>> fact they've been getting scathed for money by Apple, compared to >>>>>>> the competition.
And yet Windows marketshare is going down and down more quickly
than ever:
<https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/
#monthly-202509-202608>
Yeah, I buy that, actually.-a Lots of people are using something
else, whether in terms of operating systems or devices altogether.
But there's still nothing for a desktop system that can replace
Microsoft's platform.
Yes, there is: macOS.
Based on my empirical data of how much my clients need support, I
can guarantee you that unless you have a piece of niche-a software
that you can only run on Windows, you are always better off using
macOS.
You will have far less need for support.
I can't argue with that, I guess, you know what your work in that
area is, I respect that.-a But I'm not convinced that the Mac is on
the rise. It could peak and go back down, even, with the goofy stunts
that Apple is only more and more known for, as time goes on.
You mean you're not convinced by the statistics that clearly show it
IS on the rise?
Oh I find it interesting, to be sure.-a I'm just not confident in Apple feeling out the marketplace, such that it'd really change things.
All Apple can do is double down.-a They're putting *internal* AI, >>>>>>> with the water, in the iPhone unit, heh, and leasing their devices. >>>>>>Lots of manufacturers are using vapour chambers for heat control, >>>>>> dimwit.
Manufacturer-a-a-a Cooling Tech-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Fluid-a-a-a-a-a-a Enclosure Material
------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> Apple-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Ultra-thin vapor-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Stainless Steel /
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a Copper
Samsung-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers &-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper >>>>>> -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Loop heat pipes-a-a-a-a-a-a water >>>>>>
Xiaomi /-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Large-surface 3D-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper / Titanium
OnePlus-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a alloys
Google-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water
You were saying, asshole?
I dunno, man, my mom got me a Galaxy S26, I don't see all this AI
bullshit with it, maybe there are "special" models that target that >>>>> crap, I just use the fucking phone as a smartphone.
"with the water", dipshit.
Yeah, I need to X-Ray my phone, heh.-a I wanna see if there's any of
this craziness in it.-a Pretty sure not, though, because I haven't
been bombarded with prompts to use AI.
You claimed that Apple was doing something bizarre by using water as a
part of the iPhone's cooling system.
They aren't.
Admit you got it wrong.
In the presentation the other day, they were acting like iPhone wasHow dim are you?
going to uniquely do AI internally - that you are presenting a chart
with other brands doing this, I take as valid, since you're a smart guy,
but I don't think it applies to my own (brand new) phone.
On 9/11/2026 6:50 PM, Alan wrote:
And YOU couldn't state ONE THING that is supposedly "more
advanced" about either Windows or Linux.
I was talking about the experience, rather than the hardware.
No. You were talking about the OPERATING SYSTEMS.
Let me refresh your (obviously defective) memory:
"Win11 and Linux are both more advanced systems."
You wrote that, right?
Ah, I see where I went wrong there, I am on a drug binge without
sleep, what I was implying is that Apple automatically wins on
"quality", of the hardware, but they lack something in software to
really make the most of that quality.
And yet you cannot be specific.
Got it.
It wouldn't satisfy me.-a I would feel like I paid BMW prices for Audi software.
Leasing might make sense in a way, with some of their products, I >>>>>> admit, but smart consumers won't utilize it for something like a
phone, too much risk that something happens to it and you get
stuck with the bill, I mean how are we treating a smartphone like >>>>>> it's a damn car?-a I'm pretty confident that I won't break my
phone.-a But I'd be less confident when it was leased, because what >>>>>> if, I drop the phone and it needs repair, I'm screwed.
That is one of the stupider things you've ever written.
And that's saying a LOT.
So I'm not taking a risk of having to pay, for damage to the product
I'm leasing?-a That's the thing that makes leasing an iPhone so
ludicrous, it's not a car, one clumsy move can end its life, we
already have to cope with that carrying these devices around, the
lease puts an onerous concern on the customer.
You think "one clumsy move" can't end the life of a car (and you)?
Please turn in your driver's license.
That's the point, though, you don't make the same mistakes with a car
that you *could* with a phone.-a I'm pretty close to perfect in
handling phones.-a But that could change in a mere second.
That you THINK you can't make those same mistakes with a car is the
reason you shouldn't have a license.
And you think you can't add AppleCare which does cover accidental
damage?
I don't go for gimmicky "greater warranties", no, the salesman pitch
is ignored.
Then how is leasing different than buying with regard to accidental damage?
-a No wonder M$ tolerates the gray-market licenses on the cheap >>>>>>>> PCs, it's dooming Apple little by little as people wake up to >>>>>>>> the fact they've been getting scathed for money by Apple,
compared to the competition.
And yet Windows marketshare is going down and down more quickly >>>>>>> than ever:
<https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/
#monthly-202509-202608>
Yeah, I buy that, actually.-a Lots of people are using something
else, whether in terms of operating systems or devices altogether. >>>>>> But there's still nothing for a desktop system that can replace
Microsoft's platform.
Yes, there is: macOS.
Based on my empirical data of how much my clients need support, I
can guarantee you that unless you have a piece of niche-a software
that you can only run on Windows, you are always better off using
macOS.
You will have far less need for support.
I can't argue with that, I guess, you know what your work in that
area is, I respect that.-a But I'm not convinced that the Mac is on
the rise. It could peak and go back down, even, with the goofy
stunts that Apple is only more and more known for, as time goes on.
You mean you're not convinced by the statistics that clearly show it
IS on the rise?
Oh I find it interesting, to be sure.-a I'm just not confident in Apple
feeling out the marketplace, such that it'd really change things.
"Interesting"?
It shows a clear trend that has been going on for more than a DECADE.
Ten years ago, Windows market share was 87.53% and macOS (then called
Mac OS X and on the chart as "OS X") was 10.42%. That's 8:1 roughly.
Today, Windows share is 63.03% (and falling sharply) and OS X and macOS taken together (because they're both really just Mac OS X) is now
26.65%. That's 2.36:1
Those are the facts.
All Apple can do is double down.-a They're putting *internal* AI, >>>>>>>> with the water, in the iPhone unit, heh, and leasing their devices. >>>>>>>Lots of manufacturers are using vapour chambers for heat control, >>>>>>> dimwit.
Manufacturer-a-a-a Cooling Tech-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Fluid-a-a-a-a-a-a Enclosure Material
------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>> Apple-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Ultra-thin vapor-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Stainless Steel /
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a Copper
Samsung-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers &-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper >>>>>>> -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Loop heat pipes-a-a-a-a-a-a water >>>>>>>
Xiaomi /-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Large-surface 3D-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper / Titanium
OnePlus-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a alloys
Google-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water
You were saying, asshole?
I dunno, man, my mom got me a Galaxy S26, I don't see all this AI >>>>>> bullshit with it, maybe there are "special" models that target
that crap, I just use the fucking phone as a smartphone.
"with the water", dipshit.
Yeah, I need to X-Ray my phone, heh.-a I wanna see if there's any of
this craziness in it.-a Pretty sure not, though, because I haven't
been bombarded with prompts to use AI.
You claimed that Apple was doing something bizarre by using water as
a part of the iPhone's cooling system.
They aren't.
Admit you got it wrong.
In the presentation the other day, they were acting like iPhone was
going to uniquely do AI internally - that you are presenting a chart
with other brands doing this, I take as valid, since you're a smart
guy, but I don't think it applies to my own (brand new) phone.
How dim are you?
You were talking about how the iPhone cools its components "with the
water", as if that was something new.
On 9/11/2026 7:00 PM, Alan wrote:
Leasing might make sense in a way, with some of their products, I >>>>>>> admit, but smart consumers won't utilize it for something like a >>>>>>> phone, too much risk that something happens to it and you get
stuck with the bill, I mean how are we treating a smartphone like >>>>>>> it's a damn car?-a I'm pretty confident that I won't break my
phone.-a But I'd be less confident when it was leased, because
what if, I drop the phone and it needs repair, I'm screwed.
That is one of the stupider things you've ever written.
And that's saying a LOT.
So I'm not taking a risk of having to pay, for damage to the
product I'm leasing?-a That's the thing that makes leasing an iPhone >>>>> so ludicrous, it's not a car, one clumsy move can end its life, we
already have to cope with that carrying these devices around, the
lease puts an onerous concern on the customer.
You think "one clumsy move" can't end the life of a car (and you)?
Please turn in your driver's license.
That's the point, though, you don't make the same mistakes with a car
that you *could* with a phone.-a I'm pretty close to perfect in
handling phones.-a But that could change in a mere second.
That you THINK you can't make those same mistakes with a car is the
reason you shouldn't have a license.
Well, no, I didn't say one "can't" make a mistake driving, but you don't
in practice, because you're well aware of what you're doing and it's
easy enough to be near perfect.
And you think you can't add AppleCare which does cover accidental
damage?
I don't go for gimmicky "greater warranties", no, the salesman pitch
is ignored.
Then how is leasing different than buying with regard to accidental
damage?
Because if I buy it, it's my risk, with a lease it's an additional *liability*.-a If they're selling AppleCare with the leased product,
also, that's a little strange frankly, it's getting so complicated as to who's responsible for what, I mean, sheesh.
-a No wonder M$ tolerates the gray-market licenses on the cheap >>>>>>>>> PCs, it's dooming Apple little by little as people wake up to >>>>>>>>> the fact they've been getting scathed for money by Apple,
compared to the competition.
And yet Windows marketshare is going down and down more quickly >>>>>>>> than ever:
<https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/ >>>>>>>> #monthly-202509-202608>
Yeah, I buy that, actually.-a Lots of people are using something >>>>>>> else, whether in terms of operating systems or devices
altogether. But there's still nothing for a desktop system that >>>>>>> can replace Microsoft's platform.
Yes, there is: macOS.
Based on my empirical data of how much my clients need support, I >>>>>> can guarantee you that unless you have a piece of niche-a software >>>>>> that you can only run on Windows, you are always better off using >>>>>> macOS.
You will have far less need for support.
I can't argue with that, I guess, you know what your work in that
area is, I respect that.-a But I'm not convinced that the Mac is on >>>>> the rise. It could peak and go back down, even, with the goofy
stunts that Apple is only more and more known for, as time goes on.
You mean you're not convinced by the statistics that clearly show it
IS on the rise?
Oh I find it interesting, to be sure.-a I'm just not confident in
Apple feeling out the marketplace, such that it'd really change things.
"Interesting"?
It shows a clear trend that has been going on for more than a DECADE.
Ten years ago, Windows market share was 87.53% and macOS (then called
Mac OS X and on the chart as "OS X") was 10.42%. That's 8:1 roughly.
Today, Windows share is 63.03% (and falling sharply) and OS X and
macOS taken together (because they're both really just Mac OS X) is
now 26.65%. That's 2.36:1
Those are the facts.
Well, I could find myself surprised.-a Maybe Apple really is becoming
more normalized.
All Apple can do is double down.-a They're putting *internal* >>>>>>>>> AI, with the water, in the iPhone unit, heh, and leasing their >>>>>>>>> devices.
Lots of manufacturers are using vapour chambers for heat
control, dimwit.
Manufacturer-a-a-a Cooling Tech-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Fluid-a-a-a-a-a-a Enclosure
Material
------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>> Apple-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Ultra-thin vapor-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Stainless Steel /
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a Copper
Samsung-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers &-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper >>>>>>>> -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Loop heat pipes-a-a-a-a-a-a water >>>>>>>>
Xiaomi /-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Large-surface 3D-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper / Titanium
OnePlus-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a alloys
Google-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water
You were saying, asshole?
I dunno, man, my mom got me a Galaxy S26, I don't see all this AI >>>>>>> bullshit with it, maybe there are "special" models that target
that crap, I just use the fucking phone as a smartphone.
"with the water", dipshit.
Yeah, I need to X-Ray my phone, heh.-a I wanna see if there's any of >>>>> this craziness in it.-a Pretty sure not, though, because I haven't
been bombarded with prompts to use AI.
You claimed that Apple was doing something bizarre by using water as
a part of the iPhone's cooling system.
They aren't.
Admit you got it wrong.
In the presentation the other day, they were acting like iPhone was
going to uniquely do AI internally - that you are presenting a chart
with other brands doing this, I take as valid, since you're a smart
guy, but I don't think it applies to my own (brand new) phone.
How dim are you?
You were talking about how the iPhone cools its components "with the
water", as if that was something new.
If it's true that Samsung does it too, so be it.-a I don't even care. I'm pretty sure my generic S26 doesn't have this.Why do you CARE how a smartphone's CPU is cooled?
On 9/11/2026 5:19 PM, Alan wrote:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GS8BRTNF/?th=1
That box [China-sourced mini PC] is basically identical to mine.
$10 less than the price I paid at the time I did.-a It's not a
supercomputer by any means, but it'll run Windows 11 well, Apple is >>>>> selling you stuff you don't need.
The "box" is a no-name product that may not get warranty support one
day after you buy it.
Oh yeah I want a warranty, ROFL!
You DON'T want a warranty?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
What does a warranty really do for you, dude?-a If you have a problem,
they might fix or replace it.-a OK.-a That doesn't really sell me one way
or another.-a I'd rather buy it, and hope it works.
On 9/11/2026 5:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-11 13:43, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 4:35 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-10 09:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2026 8:52 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:16 p.m., Alan wrote:
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
Don't worry, Joel is a technical genius and will be able to
explain it to you in detail.
The theoretical potential of macOS is equal to the other OSes, but
the practical use of Windows and Linux is superior.
So you've retracted your claim that they're "more advanced", then?
I guess, if you want to make it about that, yes.
YOU made it about that.
And YOU couldn't state ONE THING that is supposedly "more advanced"
about either Windows or Linux.
I was talking about the experience, rather than the hardware.
On 2026-09-10 09:55, Maria Sophia wrote:
CrudeSausage wrote:
It's just a way to get money out of people who can't afford it.
No, it's a pretense that their gear is somehow more advanced, heh, >>>>>> only big money can afford such a mighty thing as the macOS-based SoC, >>>>>> what a crock of utter BS, Win11 and Linux are both more advanced
systems.
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
By not being drain bamaged from acid and being a lame company that
relies on its cult draw to suck money out of affluent people in the
first world, who can't fathom using Winblows, and ew Linux.N++ FFS, Apple >>>> is on its last legs, here.N++ They're leasing everything to everyone if >>>> they're stupid enough to sign on to that.N++ They're putting the water >>>> for
internal AI in the iPhone unit.
They're leasing because they came to the realization that a lot of
people are happy to change their hardware every two years and because
the economic situation has become one in which people are already having >>> trouble buying their essentials, much less the luxuries. Whether you are >>> leasing because you like the feeling of new or because you can't afford
one lump sum, Apple has something for you.
We have a thread on the Apple/Android newsgroups about what the five most
common things are that make people want to ditch that iPhone (or Android
device) and want to make them literally stand in line all night
outside the
phone store just waiting for the 1st chance to trade it in for a new
phone.
-a Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
-a Subject: What makes each of us want to replace a mobile device nowadays >> -a Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2026 17:14:40 +0200
-a Message-ID: <116hn4v$2g5d$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
-a Now that both Android & iOS development has plateaued, what are the key >> -a factors that make any of us want to replace our current mobile device?
-a 1. Battery loses capacity & it's too hard to replace so we buy a new
phone
-a 2. Storage is stressed but if it can't be replaced, we buy a bigger
phone
-a 3. Hardware is damaged & it's too expensive to fix (e.g., cracked
screen)
-a 4. Device doesn't do what we want it to do (e.g., bigger camera
perhaps?)
-a 5. OEM stops full updates of the entire device (so it's now toxic)
-a 6. ?
The main problem with iPhones, in terms of that two-year service life
that
CrudeSausage (a known Apple religious zealot troll) alludes to, is the
crappy batteries that Apple put into the iPhone, and still puts in them.
Apple doesn't put "crappy batteries" in the iPhone.
The fact iPhones lack storage expandability also kills the iPhone sooner
than Android, given 60.45% of Androids of today still have that sd slot.
Of the 1536 Android phones of the last 3 years, only 858 have SD card
slots of any kind. That's 55%
There are 191 Android phones from this year that have an SD card slot
out of 394, which is less than 50%
If we look at phones with a slot that is ONLY for an SD card, the percentages are FAR worse.
Only 61 of 394 Android phones from 2026 have a slot dedicated to an SD
card. That's just 15%.
Even if we look at the last three years of phones, the numbers are 297
of 1536. That's just 19%
You think "one clumsy move" can't end the life of a car (and you)?
Please turn in your driver's license.
That's the point, though, you don't make the same mistakes with a
car that you *could* with a phone.-a I'm pretty close to perfect in
handling phones.-a But that could change in a mere second.
That you THINK you can't make those same mistakes with a car is the
reason you shouldn't have a license.
Well, no, I didn't say one "can't" make a mistake driving, but you
don't in practice, because you're well aware of what you're doing and
it's easy enough to be near perfect.
It is NOT easy to be "near perfect".
It takes concentration.
Another reason you should hand in your license.
And you think you can't add AppleCare which does cover accidental
damage?
I don't go for gimmicky "greater warranties", no, the salesman pitch
is ignored.
Then how is leasing different than buying with regard to accidental
damage?
Because if I buy it, it's my risk, with a lease it's an additional
*liability*.-a If they're selling AppleCare with the leased product,
also, that's a little strange frankly, it's getting so complicated as
to who's responsible for what, I mean, sheesh.
It's only "complicated" to your drug-addled brain.
Ten years ago, Windows market share was 87.53% and macOS (then called
Mac OS X and on the chart as "OS X") was 10.42%. That's 8:1 roughly.
Today, Windows share is 63.03% (and falling sharply) and OS X and
macOS taken together (because they're both really just Mac OS X) is
now 26.65%. That's 2.36:1
Those are the facts.
Well, I could find myself surprised.-a Maybe Apple really is becoming
more normalized.
The statistics are clear.
"with the water", dipshit.All Apple can do is double down.-a They're putting *internal* >>>>>>>>>> AI, with the water, in the iPhone unit, heh, and leasing their >>>>>>>>>> devices.
Lots of manufacturers are using vapour chambers for heat
control, dimwit.
Manufacturer-a-a-a Cooling Tech-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Fluid-a-a-a-a-a-a Enclosure
Material
------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>> Apple-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Ultra-thin vapor-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Stainless
Steel /
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a Copper
Samsung-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers &-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Loop heat pipes-a-a-a-a-a-a water >>>>>>>>>
Xiaomi /-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Large-surface 3D-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper /
Titanium
OnePlus-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a alloys
Google-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water
You were saying, asshole?
I dunno, man, my mom got me a Galaxy S26, I don't see all this >>>>>>>> AI bullshit with it, maybe there are "special" models that
target that crap, I just use the fucking phone as a smartphone. >>>>>>>
Yeah, I need to X-Ray my phone, heh.-a I wanna see if there's any >>>>>> of this craziness in it.-a Pretty sure not, though, because I
haven't been bombarded with prompts to use AI.
You claimed that Apple was doing something bizarre by using water
as a part of the iPhone's cooling system.
They aren't.
Admit you got it wrong.
In the presentation the other day, they were acting like iPhone was
going to uniquely do AI internally - that you are presenting a chart
with other brands doing this, I take as valid, since you're a smart
guy, but I don't think it applies to my own (brand new) phone.
How dim are you?
You were talking about how the iPhone cools its components "with the
water", as if that was something new.
If it's true that Samsung does it too, so be it.-a I don't even care.
I'm pretty sure my generic S26 doesn't have this.
Why do you CARE how a smartphone's CPU is cooled?
On 9/11/2026 7:50 PM, Alan wrote:
You think "one clumsy move" can't end the life of a car (and you)? >>>>>>
Please turn in your driver's license.
That's the point, though, you don't make the same mistakes with a
car that you *could* with a phone.-a I'm pretty close to perfect in >>>>> handling phones.-a But that could change in a mere second.
That you THINK you can't make those same mistakes with a car is the
reason you shouldn't have a license.
Well, no, I didn't say one "can't" make a mistake driving, but you
don't in practice, because you're well aware of what you're doing and
it's easy enough to be near perfect.
It is NOT easy to be "near perfect".
It takes concentration.
Another reason you should hand in your license.
Or I could concentrate when I drive ...
And you think you can't add AppleCare which does cover accidental >>>>>> damage?
I don't go for gimmicky "greater warranties", no, the salesman
pitch is ignored.
Then how is leasing different than buying with regard to accidental
damage?
Because if I buy it, it's my risk, with a lease it's an additional
*liability*.-a If they're selling AppleCare with the leased product,
also, that's a little strange frankly, it's getting so complicated as
to who's responsible for what, I mean, sheesh.
It's only "complicated" to your drug-addled brain.
Being drug-addled frees one from being bewildered by these schemes, is
the truth, but I don't judge you, you're a highly competent guy and I
don't challenge that in the least.
Ten years ago, Windows market share was 87.53% and macOS (then
called Mac OS X and on the chart as "OS X") was 10.42%. That's 8:1
roughly.
Today, Windows share is 63.03% (and falling sharply) and OS X and
macOS taken together (because they're both really just Mac OS X) is
now 26.65%. That's 2.36:1
Those are the facts.
Well, I could find myself surprised.-a Maybe Apple really is becoming
more normalized.
The statistics are clear.
I'm OK with it, ultimately, because Windows isn't necessarily a
permanent home.-a Time will tell on that.-a As I said in another post, I still have a Linux box ready to swap in, I just don't have a reason to
use it at the moment.
"with the water", dipshit.All Apple can do is double down.-a They're putting *internal* >>>>>>>>>>> AI, with the water, in the iPhone unit, heh, and leasing >>>>>>>>>>> their devices.
Lots of manufacturers are using vapour chambers for heat
control, dimwit.
Manufacturer-a-a-a Cooling Tech-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Fluid-a-a-a-a-a-a Enclosure
Material
------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>> Apple-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Ultra-thin vapor-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Stainless
Steel /
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a Copper
Samsung-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers &-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Loop heat pipes-a-a-a-a-a-a water >>>>>>>>>>
Xiaomi /-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Large-surface 3D-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper /
Titanium
OnePlus-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water-a-a-a-a-a-a alloys
Google-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Vapor chambers-a-a-a-a-a-a-a De-ionized-a Copper
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a water
You were saying, asshole?
I dunno, man, my mom got me a Galaxy S26, I don't see all this >>>>>>>>> AI bullshit with it, maybe there are "special" models that
target that crap, I just use the fucking phone as a smartphone. >>>>>>>>
Yeah, I need to X-Ray my phone, heh.-a I wanna see if there's any >>>>>>> of this craziness in it.-a Pretty sure not, though, because I
haven't been bombarded with prompts to use AI.
You claimed that Apple was doing something bizarre by using water >>>>>> as a part of the iPhone's cooling system.
They aren't.
Admit you got it wrong.
In the presentation the other day, they were acting like iPhone was >>>>> going to uniquely do AI internally - that you are presenting a
chart with other brands doing this, I take as valid, since you're a >>>>> smart guy, but I don't think it applies to my own (brand new) phone.
How dim are you?
You were talking about how the iPhone cools its components "with the
water", as if that was something new.
If it's true that Samsung does it too, so be it.-a I don't even care.
I'm pretty sure my generic S26 doesn't have this.
Why do you CARE how a smartphone's CPU is cooled?
You may be completely right here, if I simply didn't know that my phoneNo. I watched the event.
has this shit, it's just that the way Apple presented the info in the
video stream the other day made it sound like it was an innovation, that
it had to do specifically with the iPhone handling AI stuff internally.
On 2026-09-11 5:43 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 5:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-11 13:43, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 4:35 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-10 09:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2026 8:52 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:16 p.m., Alan wrote:
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
Don't worry, Joel is a technical genius and will be able to
explain it to you in detail.
The theoretical potential of macOS is equal to the other OSes, but >>>>>> the practical use of Windows and Linux is superior.
So you've retracted your claim that they're "more advanced", then?
I guess, if you want to make it about that, yes.
YOU made it about that.
And YOU couldn't state ONE THING that is supposedly "more advanced"
about either Windows or Linux.
I was talking about the experience, rather than the hardware.
I'll say this much: I prefer the file management experience on Windows.
On MacOS, it's somewhat lacking. Even uploading a batch of files to something like OneDrive is needlessly annoying, at least if you use Safari.
On 2026-09-11 5:40 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 5:19 PM, Alan wrote:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GS8BRTNF/?th=1
That box [China-sourced mini PC] is basically identical to mine.
$10 less than the price I paid at the time I did.-a It's not a
supercomputer by any means, but it'll run Windows 11 well, Apple
is selling you stuff you don't need.
The "box" is a no-name product that may not get warranty support
one day after you buy it.
Oh yeah I want a warranty, ROFL!
You DON'T want a warranty?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
What does a warranty really do for you, dude?-a If you have a problem,
they might fix or replace it.-a OK.-a That doesn't really sell me one
way or another.-a I'd rather buy it, and hope it works.
To give you perspective, having the three-year warranty on the gaming
laptop I just killed allowed me to get a free battery replacement when I requested it (two years in) when I sent it in for a keyboard
replacement. Replacing it myself would have killed it for sure since I
don't have the patience or the steady hands to deal with such things. A
year later, a day before the warranty ended, it allowed me to get a motherboard replacement since the fingerprint reader was malfunctioning.
In fact, had my warranty not expired in 2024, I would still have used it
on Tuesday when a routine battery replacement was enough to kill the unit.
That said, I don't have to worry about anything with this Air because I
have a warranty until August 29, 2028. If I need a new battery or
something else happens, I just make an appointment, drive to the nearest Apple store about twenty minutes away and I know that they will replace
it professionally. If I spill juice on it or the screen breaks, it's the same story. Whether people are able to fix their machines or not (I'm comfortable fixing desktops but not laptops), having a warranty takes
that worry off your mind. If you're a busy guy with a career, you don't
want to have to open up your hardware to fix anything. In fact, as I reminded myself on Tuesday, you're better off never opening it at all.
You think "one clumsy move" can't end the life of a car (and you)? >>>>>>>
Please turn in your driver's license.
That's the point, though, you don't make the same mistakes with a >>>>>> car that you *could* with a phone.-a I'm pretty close to perfect in >>>>>> handling phones.-a But that could change in a mere second.
That you THINK you can't make those same mistakes with a car is the >>>>> reason you shouldn't have a license.
Well, no, I didn't say one "can't" make a mistake driving, but you
don't in practice, because you're well aware of what you're doing
and it's easy enough to be near perfect.
It is NOT easy to be "near perfect".
It takes concentration.
Another reason you should hand in your license.
Or I could concentrate when I drive ...
But your attitude is that it's "easy".
That's not conducive to concentrating on the task.
And you think you can't add AppleCare which does cover accidental >>>>>>> damage?
I don't go for gimmicky "greater warranties", no, the salesman
pitch is ignored.
Then how is leasing different than buying with regard to accidental >>>>> damage?
Because if I buy it, it's my risk, with a lease it's an additional
*liability*.-a If they're selling AppleCare with the leased product,
also, that's a little strange frankly, it's getting so complicated
as to who's responsible for what, I mean, sheesh.
It's only "complicated" to your drug-addled brain.
Being drug-addled frees one from being bewildered by these schemes, is
the truth, but I don't judge you, you're a highly competent guy and I
don't challenge that in the least.
It's not complicated.
Whether you lease or purchase outright, you're going to be paying for
the repair or replacement of the device.
You don't suddenly stop needing the device because you broke it, right?
Ten years ago, Windows market share was 87.53% and macOS (then
called Mac OS X and on the chart as "OS X") was 10.42%. That's 8:1
roughly.
Today, Windows share is 63.03% (and falling sharply) and OS X and
macOS taken together (because they're both really just Mac OS X) is >>>>> now 26.65%. That's 2.36:1
Those are the facts.
Well, I could find myself surprised.-a Maybe Apple really is becoming >>>> more normalized.
The statistics are clear.
I'm OK with it, ultimately, because Windows isn't necessarily a
permanent home.-a Time will tell on that.-a As I said in another post, I
still have a Linux box ready to swap in, I just don't have a reason to
use it at the moment.
Time IS ALREADY telling.
Why do you CARE how a smartphone's CPU is cooled?
You may be completely right here, if I simply didn't know that my
phone has this shit, it's just that the way Apple presented the info
in the video stream the other day made it sound like it was an
innovation, that it had to do specifically with the iPhone handling AI
stuff internally.
No. I watched the event.
They didn't in anyway suggest that the vapour chamber coolign was
connected to the "AI stuff".
On 9/11/2026 4:53 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-10 00:02, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2026 2:37 AM, Your Name wrote:
Apple's devices are not "expensive", they're simply "high-end",
pretty much the same price as the high-end devices from the likes of
Samsung, Sony, etc. Apple doesn't bother with the el cheapo low-end
device market.
Yeah but at some point the "el cheapo" is virtually as good.-a Apple is >>> flailing, desperately clinging to their grift.-a It won't work, because >>> the commodity computer is emerging.
Apple's market share continues to climb; currently standing at more than
26% of all desktop OS usage...
...which is three times Linux usage.
Meanwhile, Windows continues to decline and ever more rapidly:
<https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/
#monthly-202509-202608>
OK, I'm going to give this a shot. Tell me how Apple will become mainstream.
On 9/11/2026 8:22 PM, Alan wrote:
You think "one clumsy move" can't end the life of a car (and you)? >>>>>>>>
Please turn in your driver's license.
That's the point, though, you don't make the same mistakes with a >>>>>>> car that you *could* with a phone.-a I'm pretty close to perfect >>>>>>> in handling phones.-a But that could change in a mere second.
That you THINK you can't make those same mistakes with a car is
the reason you shouldn't have a license.
Well, no, I didn't say one "can't" make a mistake driving, but you
don't in practice, because you're well aware of what you're doing
and it's easy enough to be near perfect.
It is NOT easy to be "near perfect".
It takes concentration.
Another reason you should hand in your license.
Or I could concentrate when I drive ...
But your attitude is that it's "easy".
That's not conducive to concentrating on the task.
It's easier to concentrate on driving than to worry about crashing the
car, so I concentrate.-a It's a task.-a But it's ultimately a lot easier than handling a smartphone, because it's designed for me to just sit
there and turn the wheel and press the pedals, it's almost effortless.
And you think you can't add AppleCare which does cover
accidental damage?
I don't go for gimmicky "greater warranties", no, the salesman
pitch is ignored.
Then how is leasing different than buying with regard to
accidental damage?
Because if I buy it, it's my risk, with a lease it's an additional
*liability*.-a If they're selling AppleCare with the leased product, >>>>> also, that's a little strange frankly, it's getting so complicated
as to who's responsible for what, I mean, sheesh.
It's only "complicated" to your drug-addled brain.
Being drug-addled frees one from being bewildered by these schemes,
is the truth, but I don't judge you, you're a highly competent guy
and I don't challenge that in the least.
It's not complicated.
Whether you lease or purchase outright, you're going to be paying for
the repair or replacement of the device.
You don't suddenly stop needing the device because you broke it, right?
Right, but if you were leasing it *and* liable for breaking it, you're overpaying two ways at the same time.-a Leasing isn't cheaper than
owning, because it only lasts a limited time.-a The liability for an accident is on top of already paying a lot to not get a lot.
Ten years ago, Windows market share was 87.53% and macOS (then
called Mac OS X and on the chart as "OS X") was 10.42%. That's 8:1 >>>>>> roughly.
Today, Windows share is 63.03% (and falling sharply) and OS X and >>>>>> macOS taken together (because they're both really just Mac OS X)
is now 26.65%. That's 2.36:1
Those are the facts.
Well, I could find myself surprised.-a Maybe Apple really is
becoming more normalized.
The statistics are clear.
I'm OK with it, ultimately, because Windows isn't necessarily a
permanent home.-a Time will tell on that.-a As I said in another post,
I still have a Linux box ready to swap in, I just don't have a reason
to use it at the moment.
Time IS ALREADY telling.
I wish them luck, frankly, why not?-a It's a good enough edition of Unix
for me.-a If it became more of a common product it might even make me interested.
I didn't say one "can't" make a mistake driving, but you
don't in practice, because you're well aware of what you're doing >>>>>> and it's easy enough to be near perfect.
It is NOT easy to be "near perfect".
It takes concentration.
Another reason you should hand in your license.
Or I could concentrate when I drive ...
But your attitude is that it's "easy".
That's not conducive to concentrating on the task.
It's easier to concentrate on driving than to worry about crashing the
car, so I concentrate.-a It's a task.-a But it's ultimately a lot easier
than handling a smartphone, because it's designed for me to just sit
there and turn the wheel and press the pedals, it's almost effortless.
Turn in your license.
if I buy it, it's my risk, with a lease it's an additional
*liability*.-a If they're selling AppleCare with the leased
product, also, that's a little strange frankly, it's getting so
complicated as to who's responsible for what, I mean, sheesh.
It's only "complicated" to your drug-addled brain.
Being drug-addled frees one from being bewildered by these schemes,
is the truth, but I don't judge you, you're a highly competent guy
and I don't challenge that in the least.
It's not complicated.
Whether you lease or purchase outright, you're going to be paying for
the repair or replacement of the device.
You don't suddenly stop needing the device because you broke it, right?
Right, but if you were leasing it *and* liable for breaking it, you're
overpaying two ways at the same time.-a Leasing isn't cheaper than
owning, because it only lasts a limited time.-a The liability for an
accident is on top of already paying a lot to not get a lot.
The cost to you is the same either way.
How is it you're not bright enough to see that?
Ten years ago, Windows market share was 87.53% and macOS (then
called Mac OS X and on the chart as "OS X") was 10.42%. That's
8:1 roughly.
Today, Windows share is 63.03% (and falling sharply) and OS X and >>>>>>> macOS taken together (because they're both really just Mac OS X) >>>>>>> is now 26.65%. That's 2.36:1
Those are the facts.
Well, I could find myself surprised.-a Maybe Apple really is
becoming more normalized.
The statistics are clear.
I'm OK with it, ultimately, because Windows isn't necessarily a
permanent home.-a Time will tell on that.-a As I said in another post, >>>> I still have a Linux box ready to swap in, I just don't have a
reason to use it at the moment.
Time IS ALREADY telling.
I wish them luck, frankly, why not?-a It's a good enough edition of
Unix for me.-a If it became more of a common product it might even make
me interested.
1 in every 4 computers isn't common enough for you?
On 9/12/2026 1:21 PM, Alan wrote:
Maybe Apple really is
becoming more normalized.
The statistics are clear.
I'm OK with it, ultimately, because Windows isn't necessarily a
permanent home.-a Time will tell on that.-a As I said in another
post, I still have a Linux box ready to swap in, I just don't have
a reason to use it at the moment.
Time IS ALREADY telling.
I wish them luck, frankly, why not?-a It's a good enough edition of
Unix for me.-a If it became more of a common product it might even
make me interested.
1 in every 4 computers isn't common enough for you?
You could be right.
This CrudeSausage nutjob, because he got 86% out of a 4-year old battery,
that, by God, that must mean all the benchmarks in the world are wrong.
Your statement was that the Apple battery is bad while mine was that a supposedly awful battery still provides you with an excellent charge
with shockingly minimal wear. The nutjob here is you.
Where do these Apple religious zealot nutcases come from?
From the growing mass of satisfied Apple customers.
Not one of them knows a single thing about Apple battery capacity,
efficiency, overall life (i.e., in number of charge/discharge cycles).
And none of them care as long as they can get a good five years out of
their phones, which they routinely do. They do so because the batteries
last and because the company provides them with continued updates for at least that long.
This CrudeSausage nutjob claims all engineering specs are meaningless
by claiming that everyone gets the battery life that he says he gets.
What I am claiming is that while Samsung devices might theoretically be better in one respect or another, nobody cares because the Android
execution is generally awful and the ecosystem is filled with empty promises, especially as it relates to updates and even inconsistency
around the operating system itself.
Which is false and contradicts your own comments previously. Where I walked you through the maths...
for you to brazenly deny
that none of the Apple iPhones earned an A in efficiency in the first round >> of the mandated EU benchmarks,
Lol. I never denied that. As you've said before the categorical classes are somewhat arbitrary. The quantitative data of the battery performance tells
a very different story.
Here it is again, because you always like to snip facts you don't like. https://rpubs.com/ithinkiam/1415197
I challenge you for the umpteenth time to find any errors in this analysis.
Similarly, why do you defend Android, the haven for most malware, as if
your life depended on it? You love to point the finger at everyone else
for being a religious zealot, all the while disregarding the fact that you've spent an inordinate amount of time here talking about how Samsung devices provide you with an excellent battery on the device through
which you'll have your identity stolen.
CrudeSausage wrote:
This CrudeSausage nutjob, because he got 86% out of a 4-year old battery, >>> that, by God, that must mean all the benchmarks in the world are wrong.
Your statement was that the Apple battery is bad while mine was that a
supposedly awful battery still provides you with an excellent charge
with shockingly minimal wear. The nutjob here is you.
It's sad that ignorant people like you outnumber the well-educated few.
Ignorant people like you, who have absolu8tley zero electrical engineering
or chemistry knowledge, are why Apple can sell phones with those laughably crappy batteries because, since you lack any understanding of battery chemistr4y, you believe the bogus claim they're "more efficient" (as if the marketing makes up for the cheap battery components).
Chris wrote:
Which is false and contradicts your own comments previously. Where I walked >> you through the maths...
Chris,
Apple has *always* put shockingly crappy batteries in the iPhone.
We proved it, using actual electrical engineering & chemistry facts.
for you to brazenly deny
that none of the Apple iPhones earned an A in efficiency in the first round >>> of the mandated EU benchmarks,
Lol. I never denied that. As you've said before the categorical classes are >> somewhat arbitrary. The quantitative data of the battery performance tells >> a very different story.
Here it is again, because you always like to snip facts you don't like.
https://rpubs.com/ithinkiam/1415197
I challenge you for the umpteenth time to find any errors in this analysis.
The EU measures the phone's performance and calculates an efficiency index and then assigns the AN++VG class. So of course we'd expect A phones to have better efficiency.
CrudeSausage wrote:
Similarly, why do you defend Android, the haven for most malware, as if
your life depended on it? You love to point the finger at everyone else
for being a religious zealot, all the while disregarding the fact that
you've spent an inordinate amount of time here talking about how Samsung
devices provide you with an excellent battery on the device through
which you'll have your identity stolen.
The fact you make such ridiculously absurd statements, shows your lack of ability to separate fact from your own innate religious personal bias.
All the Apple trolls like you claim the garbage you said above, and yet, NOBDOY (not a single person!) on the Android newsgroup would claim it.
Why?
Because I tell the truth in facts about all operating systems.
The very fact Android devices can do everything iOS devices can do, is
simply a fact (other than privileged ports), and it's not "defending" anything but the truth.
The fact Android devices do a lot of things (see previous list) that iOS devices can't do, is yet another fact, and it's not defending anything but the truth.
Q: Why can't iOS save photos to a user-defined timedate format?
A: ???
HINT: Only iOS can't do that. Every other operating system does it.
CrudeSausage wrote:Batteries, something, something, propaganda, something, something, Android.
This CrudeSausage nutjob, because he got 86% out of a 4-year old battery, >>> that, by God, that must mean all the benchmarks in the world are wrong.
Your statement was that the Apple battery is bad while mine was that a
supposedly awful battery still provides you with an excellent charge
with shockingly minimal wear. The nutjob here is you.
It's sad that ignorant people like you outnumber the well-educated few.
CrudeSausage wrote:
Similarly, why do you defend Android, the haven for most malware, as if
your life depended on it? You love to point the finger at everyone else
for being a religious zealot, all the while disregarding the fact that
you've spent an inordinate amount of time here talking about how Samsung
devices provide you with an excellent battery on the device through
which you'll have your identity stolen.
The fact you make such ridiculously absurd statements, shows your lack of ability to separate fact from your own innate religious personal bias.
On 2026-09-13 3:01 a.m., Maria Sophia wrote:
CrudeSausage wrote:Batteries, something, something, propaganda, something, something, Android.
This CrudeSausage nutjob, because he got 86% out of a 4-year oldYour statement was that the Apple battery is bad while mine was that a
battery,
that, by God, that must mean all the benchmarks in the world are wrong. >>>
supposedly awful battery still provides you with an excellent charge
with shockingly minimal wear. The nutjob here is you.
It's sad that ignorant people like you outnumber the well-educated few.
< snip never-ending rant >
On 9/13/26 06:11, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-13 3:01 a.m., Maria Sophia wrote:
CrudeSausage wrote:Batteries, something, something, propaganda, something, something,
This CrudeSausage nutjob, because he got 86% out of a 4-year old
battery,
that, by God, that must mean all the benchmarks in the world are
wrong.
Your statement was that the Apple battery is bad while mine was that a >>>> supposedly awful battery still provides you with an excellent charge
with shockingly minimal wear. The nutjob here is you.
It's sad that ignorant people like you outnumber the well-educated few.
Android.
< snip never-ending rant >
Ah, so the "batteries!" trope is back in vogue?
What I recall from time was the silence when I noted a well-known way
for product developers to effectively "cheat" on the subject.
That would be the same exact battery off of the same exact manufacturing line, going into two different products, yet ending up with different "officially rated" capacities...
...plus those capacities will be verified in near term performance
testing showing that both claims are 100% technically correct.
Because with LiPo's, its not Rocket Science to set up & do this 'cheat'.
The key to it all is knowing & understanding the engineering trade-offs
that are being conducted, with its lifecycle management contributions.
Batteries, something, something, propaganda, something, something,
Android, something, something...
CrudeSausage wrote:
Batteries, something, something, propaganda, something, something,
Android, something, something...
Did you really have to prove me right that you can't handle any facts?
Chris wrote:
Which is false and contradicts your own comments previously. Where I walked >> you through the maths...
Chris,
Apple has *always* put shockingly crappy batteries in the iPhone.
We proved it, using actual electrical engineering & chemistry facts.
for you to brazenly deny
that none of the Apple iPhones earned an A in efficiency in the first round >>> of the mandated EU benchmarks,
Lol. I never denied that. As you've said before the categorical classes are >> somewhat arbitrary. The quantitative data of the battery performance tells >> a very different story.
Here it is again, because you always like to snip facts you don't like.
https://rpubs.com/ithinkiam/1415197
I challenge you for the umpteenth time to find any errors in this analysis.
The EU measures the phone's performance and calculates an efficiency index and then assigns the ArCoG class. So of course we'd expect A phones to have better efficiency.
The classification isn't an independent variable that researchers can use
to discover whether efficiency improves battery life. Battery efficiency is part of what determines the classification.
The fact remains that despite Apple's brilliant propaganda that efficiency trumps cheap batteries, the first set of EU benchmark results proved Apple had lied for the past decade that efficiency trumps their crappy batteries.
CrudeSausage wrote:
Batteries, something, something, propaganda, something, something,
Android, something, something...
Did you really have to prove me right that you can't handle any facts?
Or, I can just bin you.
CrudeSausage wrote:
Or, I can just bin you.
All you ignorant uneducated Apple religious zealot nutcases are the same.
Apple propaganda works great on you.
Facts don't.
The very fact you call facts "blah blah blah" proves me right every time.
CrudeSausage wrote:
Or, I can just bin you.
All you ignorant uneducated Apple religious zealot nutcases are the same.
Apple propaganda works great on you.
Facts don't.
The very fact you call facts "blah blah blah" proves me right every time.
On 2026-09-11 5:43 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 5:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-11 13:43, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 4:35 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-10 09:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2026 8:52 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:16 p.m., Alan wrote:
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
Don't worry, Joel is a technical genius and will be able to
explain it to you in detail.
The theoretical potential of macOS is equal to the other OSes, but >>>>>> the practical use of Windows and Linux is superior.
So you've retracted your claim that they're "more advanced", then?
I guess, if you want to make it about that, yes.
YOU made it about that.
And YOU couldn't state ONE THING that is supposedly "more advanced"
about either Windows or Linux.
I was talking about the experience, rather than the hardware.
I'll say this much: I prefer the file management experience on Windows.
On MacOS, it's somewhat lacking. Even uploading a batch of files to something like OneDrive is needlessly annoying, at least if you use Safari.
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-09-11 5:43 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 5:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-11 13:43, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 4:35 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-10 09:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2026 8:52 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:16 p.m., Alan wrote:
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
Don't worry, Joel is a technical genius and will be able to
explain it to you in detail.
The theoretical potential of macOS is equal to the other OSes, but >>>>>>> the practical use of Windows and Linux is superior.
So you've retracted your claim that they're "more advanced", then?
I guess, if you want to make it about that, yes.
YOU made it about that.
And YOU couldn't state ONE THING that is supposedly "more advanced"
about either Windows or Linux.
I was talking about the experience, rather than the hardware.
I'll say this much: I prefer the file management experience on Windows.
On MacOS, it's somewhat lacking. Even uploading a batch of files to
something like OneDrive is needlessly annoying, at least if you use Safari.
How different is it to windows? Also just use the onedrive app. Drag and
drop and you're done.
Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
CrudeSausage wrote:
Or, I can just bin you.
All you ignorant uneducated Apple religious zealot nutcases are the same.
Apple propaganda works great on you.
Facts don't.
The very fact you call facts "blah blah blah" proves me right every time.
You don't provide facts that's why everything you write is equivalent to "blah blah blah". All you have is opinion and hot air.
You refuse to engage with genuine facts. For example the EU data: You only quote the most basic aspect and deny all the data. You're the only propagandist here.
On Sep 14, 2026 at 12:05:17rC>AM MST, "Chris" wrote <11886bd$19qs8$1@dont-email.me>:
Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
CrudeSausage wrote:You don't provide facts that's why everything you write is equivalent to
Or, I can just bin you.
All you ignorant uneducated Apple religious zealot nutcases are the same. >>>
Apple propaganda works great on you.
Facts don't.
The very fact you call facts "blah blah blah" proves me right every time. >>
"blah blah blah". All you have is opinion and hot air.
You refuse to engage with genuine facts. For example the EU data: You only >> quote the most basic aspect and deny all the data. You're the only
propagandist here.
Yup. Look at the old malware risk debate. Maria ran when evidence was provided.
On 2026-09-14 3:12 a.m., Chris wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-09-11 5:43 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 5:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-11 13:43, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 4:35 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-10 09:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:I guess, if you want to make it about that, yes.
On 9/10/2026 8:52 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:16 p.m., Alan wrote:
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
Don't worry, Joel is a technical genius and will be able to
explain it to you in detail.
The theoretical potential of macOS is equal to the other OSes, but >>>>>>>> the practical use of Windows and Linux is superior.
So you've retracted your claim that they're "more advanced", then? >>>>>>
YOU made it about that.
And YOU couldn't state ONE THING that is supposedly "more advanced"
about either Windows or Linux.
I was talking about the experience, rather than the hardware.
I'll say this much: I prefer the file management experience on Windows.
On MacOS, it's somewhat lacking. Even uploading a batch of files to
something like OneDrive is needlessly annoying, at least if you use
Safari.
How different is it to windows? Also just use the onedrive app. Drag and
drop and you're done.
Bah, I needed an excuse to go back to Brave and that was it. Even the
back buttons of my mouse don't work in Safari. As for file management,
the way it works in Windows is rather intuitive including allowing for
the use of your mouse's back and forward buttons. Maybe I'm just not
used to it, I don't know, but the Windows one feels better for the time being.
On Sep 14, 2026 at 9:59:34rC>AM EDT, "Brock McNuggets" <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 12:05:17rC>AM MST, "Chris" wrote
<11886bd$19qs8$1@dont-email.me>:
Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
CrudeSausage wrote:You don't provide facts that's why everything you write is equivalent to >>> "blah blah blah". All you have is opinion and hot air.
Or, I can just bin you.
All you ignorant uneducated Apple religious zealot nutcases are the same. >>>>
Apple propaganda works great on you.
Facts don't.
The very fact you call facts "blah blah blah" proves me right every time. >>>
You refuse to engage with genuine facts. For example the EU data: You only >>> quote the most basic aspect and deny all the data. You're the only
propagandist here.
Yup. Look at the old malware risk debate. Maria ran when evidence was
provided.
"Android is more secure", "crappy iPhone batteries", "Its impossible to move files between iOS and Windows without installing extra software on both" and "Apple is all marketing" are his Go To topics.
Because Arlen is just a troll. He is only here for attention. Stop giving him what he wants. He was gone for several months and things were nice and quiet here.
CrudeSausage wrote:
Batteries, something, something, propaganda, something, something,
Android, something, something...
Did you really have to prove me right that you can't handle any facts?
On Sep 14, 2026 at 7:44:49rC>AM MST, "Nick Charles" wrote <6cidnc8V-dj8lTX3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com>:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 9:59:34rC>AM EDT, "Brock McNuggets"
<brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 12:05:17rC>AM MST, "Chris" wrote
<11886bd$19qs8$1@dont-email.me>:
Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
CrudeSausage wrote:You don't provide facts that's why everything you write is equivalent to >>>> "blah blah blah". All you have is opinion and hot air.
Or, I can just bin you.
All you ignorant uneducated Apple religious zealot nutcases are the same. >>>>>
Apple propaganda works great on you.
Facts don't.
The very fact you call facts "blah blah blah" proves me right every time. >>>>
You refuse to engage with genuine facts. For example the EU data: You only >>>> quote the most basic aspect and deny all the data. You're the only
propagandist here.
Yup. Look at the old malware risk debate. Maria ran when evidence was
provided.
"Android is more secure", "crappy iPhone batteries", "Its impossible to move >> files between iOS and Windows without installing extra software on both" and >> "Apple is all marketing" are his Go To topics.
And he backs none of them.
On Sep 14, 2026 at 9:59:34rC>AM EDT, "Brock McNuggets" <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 12:05:17rC>AM MST, "Chris" wrote
<11886bd$19qs8$1@dont-email.me>:
Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
CrudeSausage wrote:You don't provide facts that's why everything you write is equivalent to >>> "blah blah blah". All you have is opinion and hot air.
Or, I can just bin you.
All you ignorant uneducated Apple religious zealot nutcases are the same. >>>>
Apple propaganda works great on you.
Facts don't.
The very fact you call facts "blah blah blah" proves me right every time. >>>
You refuse to engage with genuine facts. For example the EU data: You only >>> quote the most basic aspect and deny all the data. You're the only
propagandist here.
Yup. Look at the old malware risk debate. Maria ran when evidence was
provided.
"Android is more secure", "crappy iPhone batteries", "Its impossible to move files between iOS and Windows without installing extra software on both" and "Apple is all marketing" are his Go To topics.
Because Arlen is just a troll. He is only here for attention. Stop giving him what he wants. He was gone for several months and things were nice and quiet here.
On 2026-09-14 04:19, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-14 3:12 a.m., Chris wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-09-11 5:43 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 5:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-11 13:43, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 4:35 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-10 09:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:I guess, if you want to make it about that, yes.
On 9/10/2026 8:52 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:16 p.m., Alan wrote:
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
Don't worry, Joel is a technical genius and will be able to >>>>>>>>>> explain it to you in detail.
The theoretical potential of macOS is equal to the other OSes, but >>>>>>>>> the practical use of Windows and Linux is superior.
So you've retracted your claim that they're "more advanced", then? >>>>>>>
YOU made it about that.
And YOU couldn't state ONE THING that is supposedly "more advanced" >>>>>> about either Windows or Linux.
I was talking about the experience, rather than the hardware.
I'll say this much: I prefer the file management experience on Windows. >>>> On MacOS, it's somewhat lacking. Even uploading a batch of files to
something like OneDrive is needlessly annoying, at least if you use
Safari.
How different is it to windows? Also just use the onedrive app. Drag and >>> drop and you're done.
Bah, I needed an excuse to go back to Brave and that was it. Even the
back buttons of my mouse don't work in Safari. As for file management,
the way it works in Windows is rather intuitive including allowing for
the use of your mouse's back and forward buttons. Maybe I'm just not
used to it, I don't know, but the Windows one feels better for the
time being.
Standard Mac mice don't HAVE forward and back buttons.
But if you want a mouse with them, you can get them, install the
software that comes along with them and use them just as you would on Windows.
On 2026-09-14 11:01 a.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 04:19, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-14 3:12 a.m., Chris wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-09-11 5:43 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 5:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-11 13:43, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 4:35 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-10 09:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:I guess, if you want to make it about that, yes.
On 9/10/2026 8:52 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:16 p.m., Alan wrote:
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
Don't worry, Joel is a technical genius and will be able to >>>>>>>>>>> explain it to you in detail.
The theoretical potential of macOS is equal to the other OSes, >>>>>>>>>> but
the practical use of Windows and Linux is superior.
So you've retracted your claim that they're "more advanced", then? >>>>>>>>
YOU made it about that.
And YOU couldn't state ONE THING that is supposedly "more advanced" >>>>>>> about either Windows or Linux.
I was talking about the experience, rather than the hardware.
I'll say this much: I prefer the file management experience on
Windows.
On MacOS, it's somewhat lacking. Even uploading a batch of files to
something like OneDrive is needlessly annoying, at least if you use >>>>> Safari.
How different is it to windows? Also just use the onedrive app. Drag
and
drop and you're done.
Bah, I needed an excuse to go back to Brave and that was it. Even the
back buttons of my mouse don't work in Safari. As for file
management, the way it works in Windows is rather intuitive including
allowing for the use of your mouse's back and forward buttons. Maybe
I'm just not used to it, I don't know, but the Windows one feels
better for the time being.
Standard Mac mice don't HAVE forward and back buttons.
But if you want a mouse with them, you can get them, install the
software that comes along with them and use them just as you would on
Windows.
Or just use any browser other than Safari.
On Sep 14, 2026 at 11:37:43rC>AM EDT, "Brock McNuggets" <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 7:44:49rC>AM MST, "Nick Charles" wrote
<6cidnc8V-dj8lTX3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@supernews.com>:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 9:59:34rC>AM EDT, "Brock McNuggets"
<brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 12:05:17rC>AM MST, "Chris" wrote
<11886bd$19qs8$1@dont-email.me>:
Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
CrudeSausage wrote:
Or, I can just bin you.
All you ignorant uneducated Apple religious zealot nutcases are the same.
Apple propaganda works great on you.
Facts don't.
The very fact you call facts "blah blah blah" proves me right every time.
You don't provide facts that's why everything you write is equivalent to >>>>> "blah blah blah". All you have is opinion and hot air.
You refuse to engage with genuine facts. For example the EU data: You only
quote the most basic aspect and deny all the data. You're the only
propagandist here.
Yup. Look at the old malware risk debate. Maria ran when evidence was
provided.
"Android is more secure", "crappy iPhone batteries", "Its impossible to move
files between iOS and Windows without installing extra software on both" and
"Apple is all marketing" are his Go To topics.
And he backs none of them.
Because its impossible to back made up claims and issues. Of course, he DOES post lots of links. But none of them - ever - even mentions what he is lying about, let alone backs it. Several have even said the exact opposite of what he is lyiing about.
That is when he runs away.
He is really quite pathetic and should be ignored. We WAS ignored for several
months, even posting a couple extremely stupid "PSAs" that no one replied to.
So he decided to actually join a topic he did not start.
Which is against the Trolling Bible. You only START topics and then bask in the glory of YOUR topic going on for weeks and months.
On 2026-09-14 10:49, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-14 11:01 a.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 04:19, CrudeSausage wrote:
Bah, I needed an excuse to go back to Brave and that was it. Even
the back buttons of my mouse don't work in Safari. As for file
management, the way it works in Windows is rather intuitive
including allowing for the use of your mouse's back and forward
buttons. Maybe I'm just not used to it, I don't know, but the
Windows one feels better for the time being.
Standard Mac mice don't HAVE forward and back buttons.
But if you want a mouse with them, you can get them, install the
software that comes along with them and use them just as you would on
Windows.
Or just use any browser other than Safari.
Ummmm...no. That doesn't track.
Explain.
On 9/14/2026 2:04 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 10:49, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-14 11:01 a.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 04:19, CrudeSausage wrote:
Bah, I needed an excuse to go back to Brave and that was it. Even
the back buttons of my mouse don't work in Safari. As for file
management, the way it works in Windows is rather intuitive
including allowing for the use of your mouse's back and forward
buttons. Maybe I'm just not used to it, I don't know, but the
Windows one feels better for the time being.
Standard Mac mice don't HAVE forward and back buttons.
But if you want a mouse with them, you can get them, install the
software that comes along with them and use them just as you would
on Windows.
Or just use any browser other than Safari.
Ummmm...no. That doesn't track.
Explain.
I can't speak from experience,
here, but I can definitely imagine...but somehow, it didn't stop you from yammering on!
there'd be ample reason not to rely on Safari under macOS.-a The only
non-MS site I use Edge for in Windows is SiriusXM, I use Firefox as my default, and Chrome for Google stuff (I'd have the same three browsers
under Linux, incidentally).-a I'm not saying Safari is non-functional, though, but to my knowledge it's less functional as a general browser
than Edge for Windows, and it stands to reason that third-party browsers
for macOS would be the go-to.
On 2026-09-14 11:21, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 2:04 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 10:49, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-14 11:01 a.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 04:19, CrudeSausage wrote:
Bah, I needed an excuse to go back to Brave and that was it. Even >>>>>> the back buttons of my mouse don't work in Safari. As for file
management, the way it works in Windows is rather intuitive
including allowing for the use of your mouse's back and forward
buttons. Maybe I'm just not used to it, I don't know, but the
Windows one feels better for the time being.
Standard Mac mice don't HAVE forward and back buttons.
But if you want a mouse with them, you can get them, install the
software that comes along with them and use them just as you would
on Windows.
Or just use any browser other than Safari.
Ummmm...no. That doesn't track.
Explain.
I can't speak from experience,
No shock there at all...
here, but I can definitely imagine there'd be ample reason not to rely
on Safari under macOS.-a The only non-MS site I use Edge for in Windows
is SiriusXM, I use Firefox as my default, and Chrome for Google stuff
(I'd have the same three browsers under Linux, incidentally).-a I'm not
saying Safari is non-functional, though, but to my knowledge it's less
functional as a general browser than Edge for Windows, and it stands
to reason that third-party browsers for macOS would be the go-to.
...but somehow, it didn't stop you from yammering on!
On 9/14/2026 3:01 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 11:21, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 2:04 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 10:49, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-14 11:01 a.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 04:19, CrudeSausage wrote:
Bah, I needed an excuse to go back to Brave and that was it. Even >>>>>>> the back buttons of my mouse don't work in Safari. As for file
management, the way it works in Windows is rather intuitive
including allowing for the use of your mouse's back and forward >>>>>>> buttons. Maybe I'm just not used to it, I don't know, but the
Windows one feels better for the time being.
Standard Mac mice don't HAVE forward and back buttons.
But if you want a mouse with them, you can get them, install the
software that comes along with them and use them just as you would >>>>>> on Windows.
Or just use any browser other than Safari.
Ummmm...no. That doesn't track.
Explain.
I can't speak from experience,
No shock there at all...
here, but I can definitely imagine there'd be ample reason not to
rely on Safari under macOS.-a The only non-MS site I use Edge for in
Windows is SiriusXM, I use Firefox as my default, and Chrome for
Google stuff (I'd have the same three browsers under Linux,
incidentally).-a I'm not saying Safari is non-functional, though, but
to my knowledge it's less functional as a general browser than Edge
for Windows, and it stands to reason that third-party browsers for
macOS would be the go-to.
...but somehow, it didn't stop you from yammering on!
So you can't refute it, despite how you magnify my lack of personal experience with current macOS ...
On 2026-09-14 12:55, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 3:01 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 11:21, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 2:04 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 10:49, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-14 11:01 a.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 04:19, CrudeSausage wrote:
Bah, I needed an excuse to go back to Brave and that was it.
Even the back buttons of my mouse don't work in Safari. As for >>>>>>>> file management, the way it works in Windows is rather intuitive >>>>>>>> including allowing for the use of your mouse's back and forward >>>>>>>> buttons. Maybe I'm just not used to it, I don't know, but the >>>>>>>> Windows one feels better for the time being.
Standard Mac mice don't HAVE forward and back buttons.
But if you want a mouse with them, you can get them, install the >>>>>>> software that comes along with them and use them just as you
would on Windows.
Or just use any browser other than Safari.
Ummmm...no. That doesn't track.
Explain.
I can't speak from experience,
No shock there at all...
here, but I can definitely imagine there'd be ample reason not to
rely on Safari under macOS.-a The only non-MS site I use Edge for in
Windows is SiriusXM, I use Firefox as my default, and Chrome for
Google stuff (I'd have the same three browsers under Linux,
incidentally).-a I'm not saying Safari is non-functional, though, but >>>> to my knowledge it's less functional as a general browser than Edge
for Windows, and it stands to reason that third-party browsers for
macOS would be the go-to.
...but somehow, it didn't stop you from yammering on!
So you can't refute it, despite how you magnify my lack of personal
experience with current macOS ...
What claims did you make that were refutable, doofus?
This:
"I'm not saying Safari is non-functional, though, but to my knowledge
it's less functional as a general browser than Edge for Windows"
I'll ask my standard question:
In what ways is Safari "less functional as a general browser than Edge"?
What SPECIFIC ways?
Remember you just said "to [YOUR] knowledge".
On 9/14/2026 4:28 PM, Alan wrote:
"I'm not saying Safari is non-functional, though, but to my knowledge
it's less functional as a general browser than Edge for Windows"
I'll ask my standard question:
In what ways is Safari "less functional as a general browser than Edge"?
What SPECIFIC ways?
Remember you just said "to [YOUR] knowledge".
Well, Edge is fundamentally Chromium, if one can get past its MS-centric nature, it's a solid browser for general use, one can easily imagine
Apple's offering would suffer from the brain-damaged coding, that Apple
is known for.
On 9/14/2026 4:28 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 12:55, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 3:01 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 11:21, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 2:04 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 10:49, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-14 11:01 a.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 04:19, CrudeSausage wrote:
Bah, I needed an excuse to go back to Brave and that was it. >>>>>>>>> Even the back buttons of my mouse don't work in Safari. As for >>>>>>>>> file management, the way it works in Windows is rather
intuitive including allowing for the use of your mouse's back >>>>>>>>> and forward buttons. Maybe I'm just not used to it, I don't >>>>>>>>> know, but the Windows one feels better for the time being.
Standard Mac mice don't HAVE forward and back buttons.
But if you want a mouse with them, you can get them, install the >>>>>>>> software that comes along with them and use them just as you
would on Windows.
Or just use any browser other than Safari.
Ummmm...no. That doesn't track.
Explain.
I can't speak from experience,
No shock there at all...
here, but I can definitely imagine there'd be ample reason not to
rely on Safari under macOS.-a The only non-MS site I use Edge for in >>>>> Windows is SiriusXM, I use Firefox as my default, and Chrome for
Google stuff (I'd have the same three browsers under Linux,
incidentally).-a I'm not saying Safari is non-functional, though,
but to my knowledge it's less functional as a general browser than
Edge for Windows, and it stands to reason that third-party browsers >>>>> for macOS would be the go-to.
...but somehow, it didn't stop you from yammering on!
So you can't refute it, despite how you magnify my lack of personal
experience with current macOS ...
What claims did you make that were refutable, doofus?
This:
"I'm not saying Safari is non-functional, though, but to my knowledge
it's less functional as a general browser than Edge for Windows"
I'll ask my standard question:
In what ways is Safari "less functional as a general browser than Edge"?
What SPECIFIC ways?
Remember you just said "to [YOUR] knowledge".
Well, Edge is fundamentally Chromium, if one can get past its MS-centric nature, it's a solid browser for general use, one can easily imagine
Apple's offering would suffer from the brain-damaged coding, that Apple
is known for.
On 9/14/2026 4:38 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 4:28 PM, Alan wrote:
"I'm not saying Safari is non-functional, though, but to my knowledge
it's less functional as a general browser than Edge for Windows"
I'll ask my standard question:
In what ways is Safari "less functional as a general browser than Edge"? >>>
What SPECIFIC ways?
Remember you just said "to [YOUR] knowledge".
Well, Edge is fundamentally Chromium, if one can get past its MS-
centric nature, it's a solid browser for general use, one can easily
imagine Apple's offering would suffer from the brain-damaged coding,
that Apple is known for.
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari,
Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium, though I
would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari.
On 2026-09-14 13:52, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 4:38 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 4:28 PM, Alan wrote:
"I'm not saying Safari is non-functional, though, but to my
knowledge it's less functional as a general browser than Edge for
Windows"
I'll ask my standard question:
In what ways is Safari "less functional as a general browser than
Edge"?
What SPECIFIC ways?
Remember you just said "to [YOUR] knowledge".
Well, Edge is fundamentally Chromium, if one can get past its MS-
centric nature, it's a solid browser for general use, one can easily
imagine Apple's offering would suffer from the brain-damaged coding,
that Apple is known for.
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari,
Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium, though I
would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
On 9/14/2026 6:29 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 13:52, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 4:38 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 4:28 PM, Alan wrote:
"I'm not saying Safari is non-functional, though, but to my
knowledge it's less functional as a general browser than Edge for
Windows"
I'll ask my standard question:
In what ways is Safari "less functional as a general browser than
Edge"?
What SPECIFIC ways?
Remember you just said "to [YOUR] knowledge".
Well, Edge is fundamentally Chromium, if one can get past its MS-
centric nature, it's a solid browser for general use, one can easily
imagine Apple's offering would suffer from the brain-damaged coding,
that Apple is known for.
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari,
Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium, though I
would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be that Safari
is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari,
Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium, though I
would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be that
Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari"
On 2026-09-14 10:49, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-14 11:01 a.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 04:19, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-14 3:12 a.m., Chris wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-09-11 5:43 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 5:20 PM, Alan wrote:I'll say this much: I prefer the file management experience on
On 2026-09-11 13:43, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 4:35 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-10 09:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2026 8:52 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:16 p.m., Alan wrote:
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
Don't worry, Joel is a technical genius and will be able to >>>>>>>>>>>> explain it to you in detail.
The theoretical potential of macOS is equal to the other >>>>>>>>>>> OSes, but
the practical use of Windows and Linux is superior.
So you've retracted your claim that they're "more advanced", >>>>>>>>>> then?
I guess, if you want to make it about that, yes.
YOU made it about that.
And YOU couldn't state ONE THING that is supposedly "more advanced" >>>>>>>> about either Windows or Linux.
I was talking about the experience, rather than the hardware. >>>>>>
Windows.
On MacOS, it's somewhat lacking. Even uploading a batch of files to >>>>>> something like OneDrive is needlessly annoying, at least if you
use Safari.
How different is it to windows? Also just use the onedrive app.
Drag and
drop and you're done.
Bah, I needed an excuse to go back to Brave and that was it. Even
the back buttons of my mouse don't work in Safari. As for file
management, the way it works in Windows is rather intuitive
including allowing for the use of your mouse's back and forward
buttons. Maybe I'm just not used to it, I don't know, but the
Windows one feels better for the time being.
Standard Mac mice don't HAVE forward and back buttons.
But if you want a mouse with them, you can get them, install the
software that comes along with them and use them just as you would on
Windows.
Or just use any browser other than Safari.
Ummmm...no. That doesn't track.
Explain.
On 9/14/2026 6:55 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari,
Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium, though I >>>>> would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be that
Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari"
The educated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged fools,
that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC interpreter in the Apple II series, that's why they appropriated BSD's kernel for OS X/
macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
And really, it doesn't end with that, how about the fact that macOS
stops supporting moderately older devices?-a Pay another $1500, Apple
users, time's up with your perfectly functional device.-a I admit,
Windows 10 became Win11 Lite, while still pretending to support devices
with HDDs, etc., and that's a fair criticism of Microsoft, but Apple is strangely no better even though its system *should* in theory still
support these somewhat older devices!
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari, >>>>>> Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium, though >>>>>> I would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be that
Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari"
The educated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged fools,
that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC interpreter in
the Apple II series, that's why they appropriated BSD's kernel for OS
X/ macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
And yet when pressed to explain exactly HOW Apple's software is
inferior, you can never get specific.
And really, it doesn't end with that, how about the fact that macOS
stops supporting moderately older devices?-a Pay another $1500, Apple
users, time's up with your perfectly functional device.-a I admit,
Windows 10 became Win11 Lite, while still pretending to support
devices with HDDs, etc., and that's a fair criticism of Microsoft, but
Apple is strangely no better even though its system *should* in theory
still support these somewhat older devices!
What "moderately older" device does Apple not support?
Define your terms.
macOS 27 is the first version that doesn't support Intel-based Macs...
...which were discontinued with the last Intel Mac Pros in mid-2023.
But Intel-based Macs will still be getting necessary updates until 2028.
On 9/14/2026 7:56 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used
Safari, Google actually used code from Apple's engine in
Chromium, though I would still bet that Apple found some way to >>>>>>> screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be that
Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari"
The educated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged fools,
that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC interpreter in
the Apple II series, that's why they appropriated BSD's kernel for OS
X/ macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
And yet when pressed to explain exactly HOW Apple's software is
inferior, you can never get specific.
It's not necessarily that their software is inferior, but it wasn't
created in-house, at least.
And really, it doesn't end with that, how about the fact that macOS
stops supporting moderately older devices?-a Pay another $1500, Apple
users, time's up with your perfectly functional device.-a I admit,
Windows 10 became Win11 Lite, while still pretending to support
devices with HDDs, etc., and that's a fair criticism of Microsoft,
but Apple is strangely no better even though its system *should* in
theory still support these somewhat older devices!
What "moderately older" device does Apple not support?
Define your terms.
macOS 27 is the first version that doesn't support Intel-based Macs...
...which were discontinued with the last Intel Mac Pros in mid-2023.
But Intel-based Macs will still be getting necessary updates until 2028.
So five years for some Intel Macs.-a And they were still selling Mac Pros with Xeon CPUs when Silicon was becoming a thing.-a Just amazing you'd tolerate such bastardization of hardware, by a company charging the<yawn>
prices it charges for its gear.
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used
Safari, Google actually used code from Apple's engine in
Chromium, though I would still bet that Apple found some way to >>>>>>>> screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be that >>>>>> Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari"
The educated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged
fools, that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC
interpreter in the Apple II series, that's why they appropriated
BSD's kernel for OS X/ macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
And yet when pressed to explain exactly HOW Apple's software is
inferior, you can never get specific.
It's not necessarily that their software is inferior, but it wasn't
created in-house, at least.
What are you even TALKING about.
Apple has created almost ALL of its software in-house.
And really, it doesn't end with that, how about the fact that macOS
stops supporting moderately older devices?-a Pay another $1500, Apple >>>> users, time's up with your perfectly functional device.-a I admit,
Windows 10 became Win11 Lite, while still pretending to support
devices with HDDs, etc., and that's a fair criticism of Microsoft,
but Apple is strangely no better even though its system *should* in
theory still support these somewhat older devices!
What "moderately older" device does Apple not support?
Define your terms.
macOS 27 is the first version that doesn't support Intel-based Macs...
...which were discontinued with the last Intel Mac Pros in mid-2023.
But Intel-based Macs will still be getting necessary updates until 2028.
So five years for some Intel Macs.-a And they were still selling Mac
Pros with Xeon CPUs when Silicon was becoming a thing.-a Just amazing
you'd tolerate such bastardization of hardware, by a company charging
the prices it charges for its gear.
<yawn>
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
On 9/14/2026 6:55 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari,
Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium, though I
would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know. It could be that
Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari"
The UNeducated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged fools,
that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC interpreter in the Apple II series, that's why they appropriated BSD's kernel for OS
X/macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
On 9/14/2026 9:23 PM, Alan wrote:
The educated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past andI see that in the many years that have passed since I used
Safari, Google actually used code from Apple's engine in
Chromium, though I would still bet that Apple found some way to >>>>>>>>> screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be that >>>>>>> Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari" >>>>>
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged
fools, that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC
interpreter in the Apple II series, that's why they appropriated
BSD's kernel for OS X/ macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
And yet when pressed to explain exactly HOW Apple's software is
inferior, you can never get specific.
It's not necessarily that their software is inferior, but it wasn't
created in-house, at least.
What are you even TALKING about.
Apple has created almost ALL of its software in-house.
They never would've gotten the kernel from scratch.
And really, it doesn't end with that, how about the fact that macOS >>>>> stops supporting moderately older devices?-a Pay another $1500,
Apple users, time's up with your perfectly functional device.-a I
admit, Windows 10 became Win11 Lite, while still pretending to
support devices with HDDs, etc., and that's a fair criticism of
Microsoft, but Apple is strangely no better even though its system
*should* in theory still support these somewhat older devices!
What "moderately older" device does Apple not support?
Define your terms.
macOS 27 is the first version that doesn't support Intel-based Macs... >>>>
...which were discontinued with the last Intel Mac Pros in mid-2023.
But Intel-based Macs will still be getting necessary updates until
2028.
So five years for some Intel Macs.-a And they were still selling Mac
Pros with Xeon CPUs when Silicon was becoming a thing.-a Just amazing
you'd tolerate such bastardization of hardware, by a company charging
the prices it charges for its gear.
<yawn>
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
It should be beyond 2028, though.Because you know so much....
On Sep 14, 2026 at 7:11:11rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump"" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/14/2026 6:55 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari, >>>>>> Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium, though I >>>>>> would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know. It could be that
Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari"
The UNeducated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged fools,
that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC interpreter in the
Apple II series, that's why they appropriated BSD's kernel for OS
X/macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
So? Microsoft BOUGHT DOS for $50,000 and turned it into MS-DOS.
Microsoft BOUGHT Skype and destroyed it.
Microsoft BOUGHT Nokia (the Windows Phone manufacturer) and killed THAT.
What was your point again?
And BTW, in 1978 Microsoft was The Standard BASIC interpreter. Everyone was using it. Radio Shack and Commodore, among others. Why wouldn't Apple use it?
And BTW again, Apple did not "appropriate BSD's kernel". Apple BOUGHT Next for
the NextStep OS and to get Steve Jobs back. That Unix OS is now the very solid
foundation of MacOS, iOS, iPadOS anf WatchOS.
Microsoft WISHES they had an OS that flexible, modular and portable. But they are stuck with clunky, brain-dead Windows. Which can't scale up or down to anything other than Windows PCs.
Seriously. Perhaps you should stop the 24 hour, no-sleep drug binges. MAYBE your IQ would then rise above room temperature. Then MAYBE you could actually have intelligent conversations.
The educated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and >>>>>> Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damagedI see that in the many years that have passed since I used >>>>>>>>>> Safari, Google actually used code from Apple's engine in
Chromium, though I would still bet that Apple found some way >>>>>>>>>> to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be >>>>>>>> that Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari" >>>>>>
fools, that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC
interpreter in the Apple II series, that's why they appropriated
BSD's kernel for OS X/ macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
And yet when pressed to explain exactly HOW Apple's software is
inferior, you can never get specific.
It's not necessarily that their software is inferior, but it wasn't
created in-house, at least.
What are you even TALKING about.
Apple has created almost ALL of its software in-house.
They never would've gotten the kernel from scratch.
And? So what?
The part that was developed outside of Apple is minuscule compared to
what Apple developed in-house.
And really, it doesn't end with that, how about the fact that
macOS stops supporting moderately older devices?-a Pay another
$1500, Apple users, time's up with your perfectly functional
device.-a I admit, Windows 10 became Win11 Lite, while still
pretending to support devices with HDDs, etc., and that's a fair
criticism of Microsoft, but Apple is strangely no better even
though its system *should* in theory still support these somewhat >>>>>> older devices!
What "moderately older" device does Apple not support?
Define your terms.
macOS 27 is the first version that doesn't support Intel-based Macs... >>>>>
...which were discontinued with the last Intel Mac Pros in mid-2023. >>>>>
But Intel-based Macs will still be getting necessary updates until
2028.
So five years for some Intel Macs.-a And they were still selling Mac
Pros with Xeon CPUs when Silicon was becoming a thing.-a Just amazing >>>> you'd tolerate such bastardization of hardware, by a company
charging the prices it charges for its gear.
<yawn>
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
It should be beyond 2028, though.
Because you know so much....
On Sep 14, 2026 at 7:11:11rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump"" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/14/2026 6:55 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari, >>>>>> Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium, though I >>>>>> would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know. It could be that
Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari"
The UNeducated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged fools,
that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC interpreter in the
Apple II series, that's why they appropriated BSD's kernel for OS
X/macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
So? Microsoft BOUGHT DOS for $50,000 and turned it into MS-DOS.
Microsoft BOUGHT Skype and destroyed it.
Microsoft BOUGHT Nokia (the Windows Phone manufacturer) and killed THAT.
What was your point again?
And BTW, in 1978 Microsoft was The Standard BASIC interpreter. Everyone was using it. Radio Shack and Commodore, among others. Why wouldn't Apple use it?
And BTW again, Apple did not "appropriate BSD's kernel". Apple BOUGHT Next for
the NextStep OS and to get Steve Jobs back. That Unix OS is now the very solid
foundation of MacOS, iOS, iPadOS anf WatchOS.
Microsoft WISHES they had an OS that flexible, modular and portable. But they are stuck with clunky, brain-dead Windows. Which can't scale up or down to anything other than Windows PCs.
Seriously. Perhaps you should stop the 24 hour, no-sleep drug binges. MAYBE your IQ would then rise above room temperature. Then MAYBE you could actually have intelligent conversations.
On Sep 14, 2026 at 9:40:48rC>PM EDT, "Nick Charles" <none@none.none> wrote:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 7:11:11rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump"" <joelcrump@gmail.com> >> wrote:
On 9/14/2026 6:55 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari, >>>>>>> Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium, though I >>>>>>> would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know. It could be that
Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari"
The UNeducated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged fools,
that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC interpreter in the >>> Apple II series, that's why they appropriated BSD's kernel for OS
X/macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
So? Microsoft BOUGHT DOS for $50,000 and turned it into MS-DOS.
Microsoft BOUGHT Skype and destroyed it.
Microsoft BOUGHT Nokia (the Windows Phone manufacturer) and killed THAT.
What was your point again?
And BTW, in 1978 Microsoft was The Standard BASIC interpreter. Everyone was >> using it. Radio Shack and Commodore, among others. Why wouldn't Apple use it?
And BTW again, Apple did not "appropriate BSD's kernel". Apple BOUGHT Next for
the NextStep OS and to get Steve Jobs back. That Unix OS is now the very solid
foundation of MacOS, iOS, iPadOS anf WatchOS.
Microsoft WISHES they had an OS that flexible, modular and portable. But they
are stuck with clunky, brain-dead Windows. Which can't scale up or down to >> anything other than Windows PCs.
Seriously. Perhaps you should stop the 24 hour, no-sleep drug binges. MAYBE >> your IQ would then rise above room temperature. Then MAYBE you could actually
have intelligent conversations.
And BTW again, in 1980 IBM went to MS for the DOS and the BASIC Interpreter in
ROM. Was THAT "pathetic and laughable"?
Seriously. You have no clue what you are babbling about. Drug-induced delusions do not make rational conversation.
To quote Dean Wormer in Animal House, "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son".
On 9/14/2026 9:40 PM, Nick Charles wrote:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 7:11:11rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump""
<joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/14/2026 6:55 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari, >>>>>>> Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium, though I >>>>>>> would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be that
Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari"
The UNeducated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged fools,
that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC interpreter in the >>> Apple II series, that's why they appropriated BSD's kernel for OS
X/macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
So?-a-a Microsoft BOUGHT DOS for $50,000 and turned it into MS-DOS.
Windows NT was created by Microsoft.-a That's the relevant history.
On 9/14/2026 10:16 PM, Nick Charles wrote:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 9:40:48rC>PM EDT, "Nick Charles" <none@none.none> wrote: >>> On Sep 14, 2026 at 7:11:11rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump""
<joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/14/2026 6:55 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari, >>>>>>>> Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium, though I >>>>>>>> would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be that >>>>>> Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari"
The UNeducated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged fools,
that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC interpreter in
the
Apple II series, that's why they appropriated BSD's kernel for OS
X/macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
So?-a-a Microsoft BOUGHT DOS for $50,000 and turned it into MS-DOS.
Microsoft BOUGHT Skype and destroyed it.
Microsoft BOUGHT Nokia (the Windows Phone manufacturer) and killed THAT. >>>
What was your point again?
And BTW, in 1978 Microsoft was The Standard BASIC interpreter.
Everyone was
using it.-a Radio Shack and Commodore, among others. Why wouldn't
Apple use it?
And BTW again, Apple did not "appropriate BSD's kernel". Apple BOUGHT
Next for
the NextStep OS and to get Steve Jobs back. That Unix OS is now the
very solid
foundation of MacOS, iOS, iPadOS anf WatchOS.
Microsoft WISHES they had an OS that flexible, modular and portable.
But they
are stuck with clunky, brain-dead Windows. Which can't scale up or
down to
anything other than Windows PCs.
Seriously. Perhaps you should stop the 24 hour, no-sleep drug binges.
MAYBE
your IQ would then rise above room temperature. Then MAYBE you could
actually
have intelligent conversations.
And BTW again, in 1980 IBM went to MS for the DOS and the BASIC
Interpreter in
ROM. Was THAT "pathetic and laughable"?
Seriously. You have no clue what you are babbling about. Drug-induced
delusions do not make rational conversation.
To quote Dean Wormer in Animal House, "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way
to go
through life, son".
IBM was unable to create their own OS, much like Apple, MS and BSD respectively filled the gaps, you've made my point for me.
On 9/14/2026 9:40 PM, Alan wrote:
The educated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and >>>>>>> Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damagedI see that in the many years that have passed since I used >>>>>>>>>>> Safari, Google actually used code from Apple's engine in >>>>>>>>>>> Chromium, though I would still bet that Apple found some way >>>>>>>>>>> to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be >>>>>>>>> that Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari" >>>>>>>
fools, that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC
interpreter in the Apple II series, that's why they appropriated >>>>>>> BSD's kernel for OS X/ macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
And yet when pressed to explain exactly HOW Apple's software is
inferior, you can never get specific.
It's not necessarily that their software is inferior, but it wasn't >>>>> created in-house, at least.
What are you even TALKING about.
Apple has created almost ALL of its software in-house.
They never would've gotten the kernel from scratch.
And? So what?
The part that was developed outside of Apple is minuscule compared to
what Apple developed in-house.
I would not call that an accurate characterization of what they did.
They needed the low-level code from BSD's work, to create a kernel for
their own product.
And really, it doesn't end with that, how about the fact that
macOS stops supporting moderately older devices?-a Pay another
$1500, Apple users, time's up with your perfectly functional
device.-a I admit, Windows 10 became Win11 Lite, while still
pretending to support devices with HDDs, etc., and that's a fair >>>>>>> criticism of Microsoft, but Apple is strangely no better even
though its system *should* in theory still support these somewhat >>>>>>> older devices!
What "moderately older" device does Apple not support?
Define your terms.
macOS 27 is the first version that doesn't support Intel-based
Macs...
...which were discontinued with the last Intel Mac Pros in mid-2023. >>>>>>
But Intel-based Macs will still be getting necessary updates until >>>>>> 2028.
So five years for some Intel Macs.-a And they were still selling Mac >>>>> Pros with Xeon CPUs when Silicon was becoming a thing.-a Just
amazing you'd tolerate such bastardization of hardware, by a
company charging the prices it charges for its gear.
<yawn>
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
It should be beyond 2028, though.
Because you know so much....
What about someone who purchased a Mac Pro in 2023?If someone bought an Intel Mac Pro in 2023, when it was completely
On 2026-09-14 2:04 p.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 10:49, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-14 11:01 a.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 04:19, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-14 3:12 a.m., Chris wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-09-11 5:43 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 5:20 PM, Alan wrote:I'll say this much: I prefer the file management experience on
On 2026-09-11 13:43, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 4:35 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-10 09:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2026 8:52 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:16 p.m., Alan wrote:
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
Don't worry, Joel is a technical genius and will be able to >>>>>>>>>>>>> explain it to you in detail.
The theoretical potential of macOS is equal to the other >>>>>>>>>>>> OSes, but
the practical use of Windows and Linux is superior.
So you've retracted your claim that they're "more advanced", >>>>>>>>>>> then?
I guess, if you want to make it about that, yes.
YOU made it about that.
And YOU couldn't state ONE THING that is supposedly "more
advanced"
about either Windows or Linux.
I was talking about the experience, rather than the hardware. >>>>>>>
Windows.
On MacOS, it's somewhat lacking. Even uploading a batch of files to >>>>>>> something like OneDrive is needlessly annoying, at least if you >>>>>>> use Safari.
How different is it to windows? Also just use the onedrive app.
Drag and
drop and you're done.
Bah, I needed an excuse to go back to Brave and that was it. Even
the back buttons of my mouse don't work in Safari. As for file
management, the way it works in Windows is rather intuitive
including allowing for the use of your mouse's back and forward
buttons. Maybe I'm just not used to it, I don't know, but the
Windows one feels better for the time being.
Standard Mac mice don't HAVE forward and back buttons.
But if you want a mouse with them, you can get them, install the
software that comes along with them and use them just as you would
on Windows.
Or just use any browser other than Safari.
Ummmm...no. That doesn't track.
Explain.
Razer DeathAdder 2 Hyperspeed + Logitech MX Ergo. Both are tracking
devices with back and forward buttons, both have their drivers installed
in MacOS. For neither does back work using the buttons in Safari. With
any other browser, it's fine. It's a known issue: <https:// forums.macrumors.com/threads/mouse-back-forward-buttons-do-not-work-in- safari.2448011/>
Of course, it's not really an issue since it is possible, with Logitech
at least, to map the button to a specific command. Nevertheless, it
doesn't work by default and simply switching to another browser allows
it to work.
On 9/14/2026 10:16 PM, Nick Charles wrote:Bullshit
On Sep 14, 2026 at 9:40:48rC>PM EDT, "Nick Charles" <none@none.none> >> wrote:IBM was unable to create their own OS,
On Sep 14, 2026 at 7:11:11rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump"" >>> <joelcrump@gmail.com>And BTW again, in 1980 IBM went to MS for the DOS and the BASIC >> Interpreter in
wrote:
On 9/14/2026 6:55 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari, >>>>>>>> Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium, though >>>>>>>> I
would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know. It could be that>>>>>> Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari"
The UNeducated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and>>>> Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged fools,
that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC interpreter in >>>> the
Apple II series, that's why they appropriated BSD's kernel for OS
X/macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
So? Microsoft BOUGHT DOS for $50,000 and turned it into MS-DOS.
Microsoft BOUGHT Skype and destroyed it.
Microsoft BOUGHT Nokia (the Windows Phone manufacturer) and killed >>> THAT.
What was your point again?
And BTW, in 1978 Microsoft was The Standard BASIC interpreter. >>> Everyone was
using it. Radio Shack and Commodore, among others. Why wouldn't Apple >>> use it?
And BTW again, Apple did not "appropriate BSD's kernel". Apple BOUGHT >>> Next for
the NextStep OS and to get Steve Jobs back. That Unix OS is now the >>> very solid
foundation of MacOS, iOS, iPadOS anf WatchOS.
Microsoft WISHES they had an OS that flexible, modular and portable. >>> But they
are stuck with clunky, brain-dead Windows. Which can't scale up or >>> down to
anything other than Windows PCs.
Seriously. Perhaps you should stop the 24 hour, no-sleep drug binges. >>> MAYBE
your IQ would then rise above room temperature. Then MAYBE you could >>> actually
have intelligent conversations.
ROM. Was THAT "pathetic and laughable"?
Seriously. You have no clue what you are babbling about. Drug-induced
delusions do not make rational conversation.
To quote Dean Wormer in Animal House, "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way >> to go
through life, son".
much like Apple, MS and BSD respectively filled the gaps, you've made my > point for me.--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
On 2026-09-14 17:49, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 7:56 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used
Safari, Google actually used code from Apple's engine in
Chromium, though I would still bet that Apple found some way to >>>>>>>> screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be that >>>>>> Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari"
The educated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged
fools, that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC
interpreter in the Apple II series, that's why they appropriated
BSD's kernel for OS X/ macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
And yet when pressed to explain exactly HOW Apple's software is
inferior, you can never get specific.
It's not necessarily that their software is inferior, but it wasn't
created in-house, at least.
What are you even TALKING about.
Apple has created almost ALL of its software in-house.
<yawn>
And really, it doesn't end with that, how about the fact that macOS
stops supporting moderately older devices?-a Pay another $1500, Apple >>>> users, time's up with your perfectly functional device.-a I admit,
Windows 10 became Win11 Lite, while still pretending to support
devices with HDDs, etc., and that's a fair criticism of Microsoft,
but Apple is strangely no better even though its system *should* in
theory still support these somewhat older devices!
What "moderately older" device does Apple not support?
Define your terms.
macOS 27 is the first version that doesn't support Intel-based Macs...
...which were discontinued with the last Intel Mac Pros in mid-2023.
But Intel-based Macs will still be getting necessary updates until 2028.
So five years for some Intel Macs.-a And they were still selling Mac
Pros with Xeon CPUs when Silicon was becoming a thing.-a Just amazing
you'd tolerate such bastardization of hardware, by a company charging
the prices it charges for its gear.
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
On 9/14/2026 9:23 PM, Alan wrote:
The educated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past andI see that in the many years that have passed since I used
Safari, Google actually used code from Apple's engine in
Chromium, though I would still bet that Apple found some way to >>>>>>>>> screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be that >>>>>>> Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari" >>>>>
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged
fools, that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC
interpreter in the Apple II series, that's why they appropriated
BSD's kernel for OS X/ macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
And yet when pressed to explain exactly HOW Apple's software is
inferior, you can never get specific.
It's not necessarily that their software is inferior, but it wasn't
created in-house, at least.
What are you even TALKING about.
Apple has created almost ALL of its software in-house.
They never would've gotten the kernel from scratch.
And really, it doesn't end with that, how about the fact that macOS >>>>> stops supporting moderately older devices?-a Pay another $1500,
Apple users, time's up with your perfectly functional device.-a I
admit, Windows 10 became Win11 Lite, while still pretending to
support devices with HDDs, etc., and that's a fair criticism of
Microsoft, but Apple is strangely no better even though its system
*should* in theory still support these somewhat older devices!
What "moderately older" device does Apple not support?
Define your terms.
macOS 27 is the first version that doesn't support Intel-based Macs... >>>>
...which were discontinued with the last Intel Mac Pros in mid-2023.
But Intel-based Macs will still be getting necessary updates until
2028.
So five years for some Intel Macs.-a And they were still selling Mac
Pros with Xeon CPUs when Silicon was becoming a thing.-a Just amazing
you'd tolerate such bastardization of hardware, by a company charging
the prices it charges for its gear.
<yawn>
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
It should be beyond 2028, though.
On Sep 14, 2026 at 7:11:11rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump"" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/14/2026 6:55 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari, >>>>>> Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium, though I >>>>>> would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know. It could be that
Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari"
The UNeducated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged fools,
that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC interpreter in the
Apple II series, that's why they appropriated BSD's kernel for OS
X/macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
So? Microsoft BOUGHT DOS for $50,000 and turned it into MS-DOS.
Microsoft BOUGHT Skype and destroyed it.
Microsoft BOUGHT Nokia (the Windows Phone manufacturer) and killed THAT.
What was your point again?
And BTW, in 1978 Microsoft was The Standard BASIC interpreter. Everyone was using it. Radio Shack and Commodore, among others. Why wouldn't Apple use it?
And BTW again, Apple did not "appropriate BSD's kernel". Apple BOUGHT Next for
the NextStep OS and to get Steve Jobs back. That Unix OS is now the very solid
foundation of MacOS, iOS, iPadOS anf WatchOS.
Microsoft WISHES they had an OS that flexible, modular and portable. But they are stuck with clunky, brain-dead Windows. Which can't scale up or down to anything other than Windows PCs.
Seriously. Perhaps you should stop the 24 hour, no-sleep drug binges. MAYBE your IQ would then rise above room temperature. Then MAYBE you could actually have intelligent conversations.
On 9/14/2026 9:40 PM, Nick Charles wrote:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 7:11:11rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump""
<joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/14/2026 6:55 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari, >>>>>>> Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium, though I >>>>>>> would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be that
Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari"
The UNeducated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged fools,
that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC interpreter in the >>> Apple II series, that's why they appropriated BSD's kernel for OS
X/macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
So?-a-a Microsoft BOUGHT DOS for $50,000 and turned it into MS-DOS.
Windows NT was created by Microsoft.-a That's the relevant history.
Microsoft BOUGHT Skype and destroyed it.
Microsoft BOUGHT Nokia (the Windows Phone manufacturer) and killed THAT.
What was your point again?
And BTW, in 1978 Microsoft was The Standard BASIC interpreter.
Everyone was
using it.-a Radio Shack and Commodore, among others. Why wouldn't Apple
use it?
And BTW again, Apple did not "appropriate BSD's kernel". Apple BOUGHT
Next for
the NextStep OS and to get Steve Jobs back. That Unix OS is now the
very solid
foundation of MacOS, iOS, iPadOS anf WatchOS.
Microsoft WISHES they had an OS that flexible, modular and portable.
But they
are stuck with clunky, brain-dead Windows. Which can't scale up or
down to
anything other than Windows PCs.
Seriously. Perhaps you should stop the 24 hour, no-sleep drug binges.
MAYBE
your IQ would then rise above room temperature. Then MAYBE you could
actually
have intelligent conversations.
I actually slept through the weekend, pretty much, missed the NFL
coverage on Sunday.
On 2026-09-14 18:51, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 9:40 PM, Nick Charles wrote:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 7:11:11rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump""
<joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
The UNeducated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged fools,
that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC interpreter in
the
Apple II series, that's why they appropriated BSD's kernel for OS
X/macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
So?-a-a Microsoft BOUGHT DOS for $50,000 and turned it into MS-DOS.
Windows NT was created by Microsoft.-a That's the relevant history.
By the man who created VMS for DEC...
...and in many ways, NT is a COPY of VMS.
On 9/14/2026 11:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 18:51, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 9:40 PM, Nick Charles wrote:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 7:11:11rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump""
<joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
The UNeducated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged fools, >>>>> that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC interpreter
in the
Apple II series, that's why they appropriated BSD's kernel for OS
X/macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
So?-a-a Microsoft BOUGHT DOS for $50,000 and turned it into MS-DOS.
Windows NT was created by Microsoft.-a That's the relevant history.
By the man who created VMS for DEC...
MS hired him and the others involved.-a They were working for MS.
...and in many ways, NT is a COPY of VMS.
Copies are copied, this was created from scratch, even though their experience made it similar.Wrong again, dimwit.
And yet when pressed to explain exactly HOW Apple's software is >>>>>>> inferior, you can never get specific.
It's not necessarily that their software is inferior, but it
wasn't created in-house, at least.
What are you even TALKING about.
Apple has created almost ALL of its software in-house.
They never would've gotten the kernel from scratch.
And? So what?
The part that was developed outside of Apple is minuscule compared to
what Apple developed in-house.
I would not call that an accurate characterization of what they did.
They needed the low-level code from BSD's work, to create a kernel for
their own product.
Ummmmm...absolutely 100% wrong.
Mac OS X came out of NeXTSTEP, which used the Mach kernel, which was developed as a replacement for the BSD kernel.
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
It should be beyond 2028, though.
Because you know so much....
What about someone who purchased a Mac Pro in 2023?
If someone bought an Intel Mac Pro in 2023, when it was completely
obvious that it was an orphan product...
...well they're idiots.
On 2026-09-14 9:34 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 9:23 PM, Alan wrote:
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
It should be beyond 2028, though.
All product support comes to an end. Considering the last Intel Mac was manufactured in 2020, cutting it off in 2028 makes sense.
On 9/15/2026 12:01 AM, Alan wrote:
And yet when pressed to explain exactly HOW Apple's software is >>>>>>>> inferior, you can never get specific.
It's not necessarily that their software is inferior, but it
wasn't created in-house, at least.
What are you even TALKING about.
Apple has created almost ALL of its software in-house.
They never would've gotten the kernel from scratch.
And? So what?
The part that was developed outside of Apple is minuscule compared
to what Apple developed in-house.
I would not call that an accurate characterization of what they did.
They needed the low-level code from BSD's work, to create a kernel
for their own product.
Ummmmm...absolutely 100% wrong.
Mac OS X came out of NeXTSTEP, which used the Mach kernel, which was
developed as a replacement for the BSD kernel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU
"XNU was originally developed by NeXT for the NeXTSTEP operating system.
It was a hybrid kernel derived from version 2.5 of the Mach kernel, developed at Carnegie Mellon University, which incorporated the bulk of
the 4.3BSD kernel modified to run atop Mach primitives, along with an application programming interface (API) in Objective-C for writing
drivers named DriverKit."
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
It should be beyond 2028, though.
Because you know so much....
What about someone who purchased a Mac Pro in 2023?
If someone bought an Intel Mac Pro in 2023, when it was completely
obvious that it was an orphan product...
...well they're idiots.
So Apple sells high-end gear to "idiots".-a Make my point for me, heh.Rather, there are idiots buying every product.
Apple has created almost ALL of its software in-house.
They never would've gotten the kernel from scratch.
And? So what?
The part that was developed outside of Apple is minuscule compared
to what Apple developed in-house.
I would not call that an accurate characterization of what they did.
They needed the low-level code from BSD's work, to create a kernel
for their own product.
Ummmmm...absolutely 100% wrong.
Mac OS X came out of NeXTSTEP, which used the Mach kernel, which was
developed as a replacement for the BSD kernel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU
"XNU was originally developed by NeXT for the NeXTSTEP operating
system. It was a hybrid kernel derived from version 2.5 of the Mach
kernel, developed at Carnegie Mellon University, which incorporated
the bulk of the 4.3BSD kernel modified to run atop Mach primitives,
along with an application programming interface (API) in Objective-C
for writing drivers named DriverKit."
And none of that contradicts what I just said.
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
It should be beyond 2028, though.
Because you know so much....
What about someone who purchased a Mac Pro in 2023?
If someone bought an Intel Mac Pro in 2023, when it was completely
obvious that it was an orphan product...
...well they're idiots.
So Apple sells high-end gear to "idiots".-a Make my point for me, heh.
Rather, there are idiots buying every product.
Some even buy the wrong "bargain" mini PCs and then have to replace them almost immediately.
On 9/15/2026 6:13 PM, Alan wrote:
Apple has created almost ALL of its software in-house.
They never would've gotten the kernel from scratch.
And? So what?
The part that was developed outside of Apple is minuscule compared >>>>>> to what Apple developed in-house.
I would not call that an accurate characterization of what they
did. They needed the low-level code from BSD's work, to create a
kernel for their own product.
Ummmmm...absolutely 100% wrong.
Mac OS X came out of NeXTSTEP, which used the Mach kernel, which was
developed as a replacement for the BSD kernel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU
"XNU was originally developed by NeXT for the NeXTSTEP operating
system. It was a hybrid kernel derived from version 2.5 of the Mach
kernel, developed at Carnegie Mellon University, which incorporated
the bulk of the 4.3BSD kernel modified to run atop Mach primitives,
along with an application programming interface (API) in Objective-C
for writing drivers named DriverKit."
And none of that contradicts what I just said.
"incorporated the bulk of 4.3BSD kernel", so not "replacement for the
BSD kernel".
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
It should be beyond 2028, though.
Because you know so much....
What about someone who purchased a Mac Pro in 2023?
If someone bought an Intel Mac Pro in 2023, when it was completely
obvious that it was an orphan product...
...well they're idiots.
So Apple sells high-end gear to "idiots".-a Make my point for me, heh.
Rather, there are idiots buying every product.
That's not a retort.-a The point is that Apple knew some "idiots", to use your term, would purchase their Mac Pro models despite their not having
been updated to use Silicon.-a Apple thinks their users are "idiots", according to you.
Some even buy the wrong "bargain" mini PCs and then have to replace
them almost immediately.
You really can be an ass, dude, there's nothing wrong with the first one
I bought, when I first bought it my intention was to replace Win11 with Linux, in fact, I kept Win11 for a while because it wasn't as bad as I expected, but buying a second mini PC *isn't* onerous, you see, *unlike* buying multiple Apple computers, because they're *inexpensive*.-a You
should look into it.
[Apple] needed the low-level code from BSD's work, to create a
kernel for their own product.
Ummmmm...absolutely 100% wrong.
Mac OS X came out of NeXTSTEP, which used the Mach kernel, which
was developed as a replacement for the BSD kernel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU
"XNU was originally developed by NeXT for the NeXTSTEP operating
system. It was a hybrid kernel derived from version 2.5 of the Mach
kernel, developed at Carnegie Mellon University, which incorporated
the bulk of the 4.3BSD kernel modified to run atop Mach primitives,
along with an application programming interface (API) in Objective-C
for writing drivers named DriverKit."
And none of that contradicts what I just said.
"incorporated the bulk of 4.3BSD kernel", so not "replacement for the
BSD kernel".
Didn't you just say that re-writing wasn't copying, doofus.
Make up your mind.
Some even buy the wrong "bargain" mini PCs and then have to replace
them almost immediately.
You really can be an ass, dude, there's nothing wrong with the first
one I bought, when I first bought it my intention was to replace Win11
with Linux, in fact, I kept Win11 for a while because it wasn't as bad
as I expected, but buying a second mini PC *isn't* onerous, you see,
*unlike* buying multiple Apple computers, because they're
*inexpensive*.-a You should look into it.
It was stupid though.
Spending twice to end up with what you finally wanted to use.
On 9/15/2026 7:33 PM, Alan wrote:
[Apple] needed the low-level code from BSD's work, to create a
kernel for their own product.
Ummmmm...absolutely 100% wrong.
Mac OS X came out of NeXTSTEP, which used the Mach kernel, which
was developed as a replacement for the BSD kernel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU
"XNU was originally developed by NeXT for the NeXTSTEP operating
system. It was a hybrid kernel derived from version 2.5 of the Mach >>>>> kernel, developed at Carnegie Mellon University, which incorporated >>>>> the bulk of the 4.3BSD kernel modified to run atop Mach primitives, >>>>> along with an application programming interface (API) in Objective- >>>>> C for writing drivers named DriverKit."
And none of that contradicts what I just said.
"incorporated the bulk of 4.3BSD kernel", so not "replacement for the
BSD kernel".
Didn't you just say that re-writing wasn't copying, doofus.
Make up your mind.
What does that have to do with anything above?
Some even buy the wrong "bargain" mini PCs and then have to replace
them almost immediately.
You really can be an ass, dude, there's nothing wrong with the first
one I bought, when I first bought it my intention was to replace
Win11 with Linux, in fact, I kept Win11 for a while because it wasn't
as bad as I expected, but buying a second mini PC *isn't* onerous,
you see, *unlike* buying multiple Apple computers, because they're
*inexpensive*.-a You should look into it.
It was stupid though.
Spending twice to end up with what you finally wanted to use.
Incorrect.-a I chose the first one based on Linux specs.-a And it would still run Linux well, today, if I wanted to run Linux.-a I went in the direction of Win11, and it wasn't performing on that box, so I bought another box.-a Big whoop.-a They're cheap.
[Apple] needed the low-level code from BSD's work, to create a >>>>>>>> kernel for their own product.
Ummmmm...absolutely 100% wrong.
Mac OS X came out of NeXTSTEP, which used the Mach kernel, which >>>>>>> was developed as a replacement for the BSD kernel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU
"XNU was originally developed by NeXT for the NeXTSTEP operating
system. It was a hybrid kernel derived from version 2.5 of the
Mach kernel, developed at Carnegie Mellon University, which
incorporated the bulk of the 4.3BSD kernel modified to run atop
Mach primitives, along with an application programming interface
(API) in Objective- C for writing drivers named DriverKit."
And none of that contradicts what I just said.
"incorporated the bulk of 4.3BSD kernel", so not "replacement for
the BSD kernel".
Didn't you just say that re-writing wasn't copying, doofus.
Make up your mind.
What does that have to do with anything above?
Your claim was:
"[Apple] needed the low-level code from BSD's work"
Can you show there was any BSD code in the Mach kernel?
Except:
" Mach was developed as a REPLACEMENT for the kernel in the BSD version
of Unix, not requiring a new operating system to be designed around it."
They phased out the last BSD code in it by Mach 2.5, which was what
NextSTEP started with.
So there was no BSD code in Mach long before (as in 1989) Apple ever
bought NeXT.
Some even buy the wrong "bargain" mini PCs and then have to replace >>>>> them almost immediately.
You really can be an ass, dude, there's nothing wrong with the first
one I bought, when I first bought it my intention was to replace
Win11 with Linux, in fact, I kept Win11 for a while because it
wasn't as bad as I expected, but buying a second mini PC *isn't*
onerous, you see, *unlike* buying multiple Apple computers, because
they're *inexpensive*.-a You should look into it.
It was stupid though.
Spending twice to end up with what you finally wanted to use.
Incorrect.-a I chose the first one based on Linux specs.-a And it would
still run Linux well, today, if I wanted to run Linux.-a I went in the
direction of Win11, and it wasn't performing on that box, so I bought
another box.-a Big whoop.-a They're cheap.
So you chose a box for an operating system you didn't end up wanting to
use, and then buying another box to run the system you actually wanted.
You're in no position to call anyone else "idiot".
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 13:36:53 +1000, Joel W. Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/14/2026 10:16 PM, Nick Charles wrote:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 9:40:48rC>PM EDT, "Nick Charles" <none@none.none>
wrote:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 7:11:11rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump""-aAnd BTW again, in 1980 IBM went to MS for the DOS and the BASIC
<joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/14/2026 6:55 PM, Alan wrote:
The UNeducated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past andI see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari, >>>>>>>>> Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium,Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
though I
would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari. >>>>>>>>
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be that >>>>>>> Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari" >>>>>
Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged fools, >>>>> that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC interpreter
in the
Apple II series, that's why they appropriated BSD's kernel for OS
X/macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
So?-a-a Microsoft BOUGHT DOS for $50,000 and turned it into MS-DOS.
Microsoft BOUGHT Skype and destroyed it.
Microsoft BOUGHT Nokia (the Windows Phone manufacturer) and killed
THAT.
What was your point again?
And BTW, in 1978 Microsoft was The Standard BASIC interpreter.
Everyone was
using it.-a Radio Shack and Commodore, among others. Why wouldn't
Apple use it?
And BTW again, Apple did not "appropriate BSD's kernel". Apple
BOUGHT Next for
the NextStep OS and to get Steve Jobs back. That Unix OS is now the
very solid
foundation of MacOS, iOS, iPadOS anf WatchOS.
Microsoft WISHES they had an OS that flexible, modular and portable.
But they
are stuck with clunky, brain-dead Windows. Which can't scale up or
down to
anything other than Windows PCs.
Seriously. Perhaps you should stop the 24 hour, no-sleep drug
binges. MAYBE
your IQ would then rise above room temperature. Then MAYBE you could
actually
have intelligent conversations.
Interpreter in
ROM. Was THAT "pathetic and laughable"?
-aSeriously. You have no clue what you are babbling about. Drug-induced
delusions do not make rational conversation.
-aTo quote Dean Wormer in Animal House, "Fat, drunk and stupid is no
way to go
through life, son".
IBM was unable to create their own OS,
Bullshit
They just chose to buy it instead of creating it
On 2026-09-15 2:02 a.m., Rod Speed wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 13:36:53 +1000, Joel W. Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/14/2026 10:16 PM, Nick Charles wrote:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 9:40:48rC>PM EDT, "Nick Charles" <none@none.none>
wrote:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 7:11:11rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump""-aAnd BTW again, in 1980 IBM went to MS for the DOS and the BASIC
<joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/14/2026 6:55 PM, Alan wrote:
The UNeducated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and >>>>>> Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged fools, >>>>>> that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC interpreter >>>>>> in theI see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari, >>>>>>>>>> Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium, >>>>>>>>>> though IWhereby "bet" you actually mean:
would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari. >>>>>>>>>
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be that >>>>>>>> Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari" >>>>>>
Apple II series, that's why they appropriated BSD's kernel for OS
X/macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
So?-a-a Microsoft BOUGHT DOS for $50,000 and turned it into MS-DOS.
Microsoft BOUGHT Skype and destroyed it.
Microsoft BOUGHT Nokia (the Windows Phone manufacturer) and killed
THAT.
What was your point again?
And BTW, in 1978 Microsoft was The Standard BASIC interpreter.
Everyone was
using it.-a Radio Shack and Commodore, among others. Why wouldn't
Apple use it?
And BTW again, Apple did not "appropriate BSD's kernel". Apple
BOUGHT Next for
the NextStep OS and to get Steve Jobs back. That Unix OS is now the >>>>> very solid
foundation of MacOS, iOS, iPadOS anf WatchOS.
Microsoft WISHES they had an OS that flexible, modular and portable. >>>>> But they
are stuck with clunky, brain-dead Windows. Which can't scale up or
down to
anything other than Windows PCs.
Seriously. Perhaps you should stop the 24 hour, no-sleep drug
binges. MAYBE
your IQ would then rise above room temperature. Then MAYBE you could >>>>> actually
have intelligent conversations.
Interpreter in
ROM. Was THAT "pathetic and laughable"?
-aSeriously. You have no clue what you are babbling about. Drug-induced >>>> delusions do not make rational conversation.
-aTo quote Dean Wormer in Animal House, "Fat, drunk and stupid is no
way to go
through life, son".
IBM was unable to create their own OS,
Bullshit
They just chose to buy it instead of creating it
And they apparently chose CP/M before they settled with Microsoft and
the company's own purchase of QDOS. One can only imagine what the 80s
and 90s would have been like, technologically, had Microsoft never made
that deal with IBM.
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-09-15 2:02 a.m., Rod Speed wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 13:36:53 +1000, Joel W. Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/14/2026 10:16 PM, Nick Charles wrote:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 9:40:48rC>PM EDT, "Nick Charles" <none@none.none> >>>>> wrote:
On Sep 14, 2026 at 7:11:11rC>PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump""-aAnd BTW again, in 1980 IBM went to MS for the DOS and the BASIC
<joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/14/2026 6:55 PM, Alan wrote:
The UNeducated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past and >>>>>>> Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-damaged fools, >>>>>>> that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' BASIC interpreter >>>>>>> in theI see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari, >>>>>>>>>>> Google actually used code from Apple's engine in Chromium, >>>>>>>>>>> though IWhereby "bet" you actually mean:
would still bet that Apple found some way to screw up Safari. >>>>>>>>>>
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be that >>>>>>>>> Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used Safari" >>>>>>>
Apple II series, that's why they appropriated BSD's kernel for OS >>>>>>> X/macOS, it's just pathetic and laughable.
So?-a-a Microsoft BOUGHT DOS for $50,000 and turned it into MS-DOS. >>>>>>
Microsoft BOUGHT Skype and destroyed it.
Microsoft BOUGHT Nokia (the Windows Phone manufacturer) and killed >>>>>> THAT.
What was your point again?
And BTW, in 1978 Microsoft was The Standard BASIC interpreter.
Everyone was
using it.-a Radio Shack and Commodore, among others. Why wouldn't
Apple use it?
And BTW again, Apple did not "appropriate BSD's kernel". Apple
BOUGHT Next for
the NextStep OS and to get Steve Jobs back. That Unix OS is now the >>>>>> very solid
foundation of MacOS, iOS, iPadOS anf WatchOS.
Microsoft WISHES they had an OS that flexible, modular and portable. >>>>>> But they
are stuck with clunky, brain-dead Windows. Which can't scale up or >>>>>> down to
anything other than Windows PCs.
Seriously. Perhaps you should stop the 24 hour, no-sleep drug
binges. MAYBE
your IQ would then rise above room temperature. Then MAYBE you could >>>>>> actually
have intelligent conversations.
Interpreter in
ROM. Was THAT "pathetic and laughable"?
-aSeriously. You have no clue what you are babbling about. Drug-induced >>>>> delusions do not make rational conversation.
-aTo quote Dean Wormer in Animal House, "Fat, drunk and stupid is no >>>>> way to go
through life, son".
IBM was unable to create their own OS,
Bullshit
They just chose to buy it instead of creating it
And they apparently chose CP/M before they settled with Microsoft and
the company's own purchase of QDOS. One can only imagine what the 80s
and 90s would have been like, technologically, had Microsoft never made
that deal with IBM.
Well, IBM wanted CP/M first, because that was the standard at the time.
But they could not get a deal with them, for whatever reasons. Microsoft QUICKLY agreed, and that was that.
QDOS was basically CP/M ported to the 8088 anyway. So MS bought QDOS and hired Tim Patterson to manage the project.
CP/M did eventually come out for the PC, but by then it was too late. We could have been using CP/M and GEM instead of DOS and Windows.
On 2026-09-14 18:54, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 9:40 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used >>>>>>>>>>>> Safari, Google actually used code from Apple's engine in >>>>>>>>>>>> Chromium, though I would still bet that Apple found some way >>>>>>>>>>>> to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be >>>>>>>>>> that Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used >>>>>>>>> Safari"
The educated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past >>>>>>>> and Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain-
damaged fools, that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' >>>>>>>> BASIC interpreter in the Apple II series, that's why they
appropriated BSD's kernel for OS X/ macOS, it's just pathetic >>>>>>>> and laughable.
And yet when pressed to explain exactly HOW Apple's software is >>>>>>> inferior, you can never get specific.
It's not necessarily that their software is inferior, but it
wasn't created in-house, at least.
What are you even TALKING about.
Apple has created almost ALL of its software in-house.
They never would've gotten the kernel from scratch.
And? So what?
The part that was developed outside of Apple is minuscule compared to
what Apple developed in-house.
I would not call that an accurate characterization of what they did.
They needed the low-level code from BSD's work, to create a kernel for
their own product.
Ummmmm...absolutely 100% wrong.
Mac OS X came out of NeXTSTEP, which used the Mach kernel, which was developed as a replacement for the BSD kernel.
If someone bought an Intel Mac Pro in 2023, when it was completely
And really, it doesn't end with that, how about the fact that >>>>>>>> macOS stops supporting moderately older devices?-a Pay another >>>>>>>> $1500, Apple users, time's up with your perfectly functional
device.-a I admit, Windows 10 became Win11 Lite, while still
pretending to support devices with HDDs, etc., and that's a fair >>>>>>>> criticism of Microsoft, but Apple is strangely no better even >>>>>>>> though its system *should* in theory still support these
somewhat older devices!
What "moderately older" device does Apple not support?
Define your terms.
macOS 27 is the first version that doesn't support Intel-based
Macs...
...which were discontinued with the last Intel Mac Pros in mid-2023. >>>>>>>
But Intel-based Macs will still be getting necessary updates
until 2028.
So five years for some Intel Macs.-a And they were still selling
Mac Pros with Xeon CPUs when Silicon was becoming a thing.-a Just >>>>>> amazing you'd tolerate such bastardization of hardware, by a
company charging the prices it charges for its gear.
<yawn>
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
It should be beyond 2028, though.
Because you know so much....
What about someone who purchased a Mac Pro in 2023?
obvious that it was an orphan product...
...well they're idiots.
On 2026-09-14 16:47, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-14 2:04 p.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 10:49, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-14 11:01 a.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 04:19, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-14 3:12 a.m., Chris wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-09-11 5:43 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 5:20 PM, Alan wrote:I'll say this much: I prefer the file management experience on >>>>>>>> Windows.
On 2026-09-11 13:43, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/11/2026 4:35 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-10 09:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2026 8:52 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-09-09 8:16 p.m., Alan wrote:
In what way is Linux OR Win11 "more advanced"?
Don't worry, Joel is a technical genius and will be able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain it to you in detail.
The theoretical potential of macOS is equal to the other >>>>>>>>>>>>> OSes, but
the practical use of Windows and Linux is superior.
So you've retracted your claim that they're "more advanced", >>>>>>>>>>>> then?
I guess, if you want to make it about that, yes.
YOU made it about that.
And YOU couldn't state ONE THING that is supposedly "more >>>>>>>>>> advanced"
about either Windows or Linux.
I was talking about the experience, rather than the hardware. >>>>>>>>
On MacOS, it's somewhat lacking. Even uploading a batch of files to >>>>>>>> something like OneDrive is needlessly annoying, at least if you >>>>>>>> use Safari.
How different is it to windows? Also just use the onedrive app. >>>>>>> Drag and
drop and you're done.
Bah, I needed an excuse to go back to Brave and that was it. Even >>>>>> the back buttons of my mouse don't work in Safari. As for file
management, the way it works in Windows is rather intuitive
including allowing for the use of your mouse's back and forward
buttons. Maybe I'm just not used to it, I don't know, but the
Windows one feels better for the time being.
Standard Mac mice don't HAVE forward and back buttons.
But if you want a mouse with them, you can get them, install the
software that comes along with them and use them just as you would
on Windows.
Or just use any browser other than Safari.
Ummmm...no. That doesn't track.
Explain.
Razer DeathAdder 2 Hyperspeed + Logitech MX Ergo. Both are tracking
devices with back and forward buttons, both have their drivers
installed in MacOS. For neither does back work using the buttons in
Safari. With any other browser, it's fine. It's a known issue:
<https:// forums.macrumors.com/threads/mouse-back-forward-buttons-do-
not-work-in- safari.2448011/>
Of course, it's not really an issue since it is possible, with
Logitech at least, to map the button to a specific command.
Nevertheless, it doesn't work by default and simply switching to
another browser allows it to work.
It turns out your thread is completely wrong; at least for the Logitech
MX Ergo.
Click the "Back" button on it, and the mouse sends a "Button 4"...
...which isn't <backspace> as the thread suggests.
So use Logi Options+ to set it to <Cmd>+<[> (and "Forward" to <Cmd>+<]>).
I'm not really seeing this as a big deal.
On 2026-09-15 12:01 a.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 18:54, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 9:40 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used >>>>>>>>>>>>> Safari, Google actually used code from Apple's engine in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Chromium, though I would still bet that Apple found some way >>>>>>>>>>>>> to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be >>>>>>>>>>> that Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used >>>>>>>>>> Safari"
The educated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past >>>>>>>>> and Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain- >>>>>>>>> damaged fools, that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' >>>>>>>>> BASIC interpreter in the Apple II series, that's why they
appropriated BSD's kernel for OS X/ macOS, it's just pathetic >>>>>>>>> and laughable.
And yet when pressed to explain exactly HOW Apple's software is >>>>>>>> inferior, you can never get specific.
It's not necessarily that their software is inferior, but it
wasn't created in-house, at least.
What are you even TALKING about.
Apple has created almost ALL of its software in-house.
They never would've gotten the kernel from scratch.
And? So what?
The part that was developed outside of Apple is minuscule compared to >>>> what Apple developed in-house.
I would not call that an accurate characterization of what they did.
They needed the low-level code from BSD's work, to create a kernel for
their own product.
Ummmmm...absolutely 100% wrong.
Mac OS X came out of NeXTSTEP, which used the Mach kernel, which was
developed as a replacement for the BSD kernel.
If someone bought an Intel Mac Pro in 2023, when it was completely
And really, it doesn't end with that, how about the fact that >>>>>>>>> macOS stops supporting moderately older devices?-a Pay another >>>>>>>>> $1500, Apple users, time's up with your perfectly functional >>>>>>>>> device.-a I admit, Windows 10 became Win11 Lite, while still >>>>>>>>> pretending to support devices with HDDs, etc., and that's a fair >>>>>>>>> criticism of Microsoft, but Apple is strangely no better even >>>>>>>>> though its system *should* in theory still support these
somewhat older devices!
What "moderately older" device does Apple not support?
Define your terms.
macOS 27 is the first version that doesn't support Intel-based >>>>>>>> Macs...
...which were discontinued with the last Intel Mac Pros in mid-2023. >>>>>>>>
But Intel-based Macs will still be getting necessary updates
until 2028.
So five years for some Intel Macs.-a And they were still selling >>>>>>> Mac Pros with Xeon CPUs when Silicon was becoming a thing.-a Just >>>>>>> amazing you'd tolerate such bastardization of hardware, by a
company charging the prices it charges for its gear.
<yawn>
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
It should be beyond 2028, though.
Because you know so much....
What about someone who purchased a Mac Pro in 2023?
obvious that it was an orphan product...
...well they're idiots.
I would have to agree with Alan here. The writing was already on the
wall that Apple Mx series was a success and that the company would be
moving forward with those chips alone.
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-09-15 12:01 a.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 18:54, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 9:40 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Safari, Google actually used code from Apple's engine in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chromium, though I would still bet that Apple found some way >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be >>>>>>>>>>>> that Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used >>>>>>>>>>> Safari"
The educated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past >>>>>>>>>> and Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain- >>>>>>>>>> damaged fools, that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' >>>>>>>>>> BASIC interpreter in the Apple II series, that's why they
appropriated BSD's kernel for OS X/ macOS, it's just pathetic >>>>>>>>>> and laughable.
And yet when pressed to explain exactly HOW Apple's software is >>>>>>>>> inferior, you can never get specific.
It's not necessarily that their software is inferior, but it
wasn't created in-house, at least.
What are you even TALKING about.
Apple has created almost ALL of its software in-house.
They never would've gotten the kernel from scratch.
And? So what?
The part that was developed outside of Apple is minuscule compared to >>>>> what Apple developed in-house.
I would not call that an accurate characterization of what they did.
They needed the low-level code from BSD's work, to create a kernel for >>>> their own product.
Ummmmm...absolutely 100% wrong.
Mac OS X came out of NeXTSTEP, which used the Mach kernel, which was
developed as a replacement for the BSD kernel.
If someone bought an Intel Mac Pro in 2023, when it was completely
And really, it doesn't end with that, how about the fact that >>>>>>>>>> macOS stops supporting moderately older devices?-a Pay another >>>>>>>>>> $1500, Apple users, time's up with your perfectly functional >>>>>>>>>> device.-a I admit, Windows 10 became Win11 Lite, while still >>>>>>>>>> pretending to support devices with HDDs, etc., and that's a fair >>>>>>>>>> criticism of Microsoft, but Apple is strangely no better even >>>>>>>>>> though its system *should* in theory still support these
somewhat older devices!
What "moderately older" device does Apple not support?
Define your terms.
macOS 27 is the first version that doesn't support Intel-based >>>>>>>>> Macs...
...which were discontinued with the last Intel Mac Pros in mid-2023. >>>>>>>>>
But Intel-based Macs will still be getting necessary updates >>>>>>>>> until 2028.
So five years for some Intel Macs.-a And they were still selling >>>>>>>> Mac Pros with Xeon CPUs when Silicon was becoming a thing.-a Just >>>>>>>> amazing you'd tolerate such bastardization of hardware, by a
company charging the prices it charges for its gear.
<yawn>
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
It should be beyond 2028, though.
Because you know so much....
What about someone who purchased a Mac Pro in 2023?
obvious that it was an orphan product...
...well they're idiots.
I would have to agree with Alan here. The writing was already on the
wall that Apple Mx series was a success and that the company would be
moving forward with those chips alone.
The Intel Mac Pro was the only machine possible to have more than 192GB RAM until the 2025 Studio and M3 Ultra.
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-09-15 12:01 a.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 18:54, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 9:40 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Safari, Google actually used code from Apple's engine in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chromium, though I would still bet that Apple found some way >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be >>>>>>>>>>>> that Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated:
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used >>>>>>>>>>> Safari"
The educated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past >>>>>>>>>> and Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain- >>>>>>>>>> damaged fools, that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' >>>>>>>>>> BASIC interpreter in the Apple II series, that's why they
appropriated BSD's kernel for OS X/ macOS, it's just pathetic >>>>>>>>>> and laughable.
And yet when pressed to explain exactly HOW Apple's software is >>>>>>>>> inferior, you can never get specific.
It's not necessarily that their software is inferior, but it
wasn't created in-house, at least.
What are you even TALKING about.
Apple has created almost ALL of its software in-house.
They never would've gotten the kernel from scratch.
And? So what?
The part that was developed outside of Apple is minuscule compared to >>>>> what Apple developed in-house.
I would not call that an accurate characterization of what they did.
They needed the low-level code from BSD's work, to create a kernel for >>>> their own product.
Ummmmm...absolutely 100% wrong.
Mac OS X came out of NeXTSTEP, which used the Mach kernel, which was
developed as a replacement for the BSD kernel.
If someone bought an Intel Mac Pro in 2023, when it was completely
And really, it doesn't end with that, how about the fact that >>>>>>>>>> macOS stops supporting moderately older devices?-a Pay another >>>>>>>>>> $1500, Apple users, time's up with your perfectly functional >>>>>>>>>> device.-a I admit, Windows 10 became Win11 Lite, while still >>>>>>>>>> pretending to support devices with HDDs, etc., and that's a fair >>>>>>>>>> criticism of Microsoft, but Apple is strangely no better even >>>>>>>>>> though its system *should* in theory still support these
somewhat older devices!
What "moderately older" device does Apple not support?
Define your terms.
macOS 27 is the first version that doesn't support Intel-based >>>>>>>>> Macs...
...which were discontinued with the last Intel Mac Pros in mid-2023. >>>>>>>>>
But Intel-based Macs will still be getting necessary updates >>>>>>>>> until 2028.
So five years for some Intel Macs.-a And they were still selling >>>>>>>> Mac Pros with Xeon CPUs when Silicon was becoming a thing.-a Just >>>>>>>> amazing you'd tolerate such bastardization of hardware, by a
company charging the prices it charges for its gear.
<yawn>
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
It should be beyond 2028, though.
Because you know so much....
What about someone who purchased a Mac Pro in 2023?
obvious that it was an orphan product...
...well they're idiots.
I would have to agree with Alan here. The writing was already on the
wall that Apple Mx series was a success and that the company would be
moving forward with those chips alone.
The Intel Mac Pro was the only machine possible to have more than 192GB RAM until the 2025 Studio and M3 Ultra.
On 2026-09-17 10:15 a.m., Chris wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-09-15 12:01 a.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 18:54, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 9:40 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Safari, Google actually used code from Apple's engine in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chromium, though I would still bet that Apple found some way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be >>>>>>>>>>>>> that Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated: >>>>>>>>>>>>
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used >>>>>>>>>>>> Safari"
The educated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past >>>>>>>>>>> and Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain- >>>>>>>>>>> damaged fools, that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' >>>>>>>>>>> BASIC interpreter in the Apple II series, that's why they >>>>>>>>>>> appropriated BSD's kernel for OS X/ macOS, it's just pathetic >>>>>>>>>>> and laughable.
And yet when pressed to explain exactly HOW Apple's software is >>>>>>>>>> inferior, you can never get specific.
It's not necessarily that their software is inferior, but it >>>>>>>>> wasn't created in-house, at least.
What are you even TALKING about.
Apple has created almost ALL of its software in-house.
They never would've gotten the kernel from scratch.
And? So what?
The part that was developed outside of Apple is minuscule compared to >>>>>> what Apple developed in-house.
I would not call that an accurate characterization of what they did. >>>>> They needed the low-level code from BSD's work, to create a kernel for >>>>> their own product.
Ummmmm...absolutely 100% wrong.
Mac OS X came out of NeXTSTEP, which used the Mach kernel, which was
developed as a replacement for the BSD kernel.
If someone bought an Intel Mac Pro in 2023, when it was completely
And really, it doesn't end with that, how about the fact that >>>>>>>>>>> macOS stops supporting moderately older devices?-a Pay another >>>>>>>>>>> $1500, Apple users, time's up with your perfectly functional >>>>>>>>>>> device.-a I admit, Windows 10 became Win11 Lite, while still >>>>>>>>>>> pretending to support devices with HDDs, etc., and that's a fair >>>>>>>>>>> criticism of Microsoft, but Apple is strangely no better even >>>>>>>>>>> though its system *should* in theory still support these >>>>>>>>>>> somewhat older devices!
What "moderately older" device does Apple not support?
Define your terms.
macOS 27 is the first version that doesn't support Intel-based >>>>>>>>>> Macs...
...which were discontinued with the last Intel Mac Pros in >>>>>>>>>> mid-2023.
But Intel-based Macs will still be getting necessary updates >>>>>>>>>> until 2028.
So five years for some Intel Macs.-a And they were still selling >>>>>>>>> Mac Pros with Xeon CPUs when Silicon was becoming a thing.-a Just >>>>>>>>> amazing you'd tolerate such bastardization of hardware, by a >>>>>>>>> company charging the prices it charges for its gear.
<yawn>
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
It should be beyond 2028, though.
Because you know so much....
What about someone who purchased a Mac Pro in 2023?
obvious that it was an orphan product...
...well they're idiots.
I would have to agree with Alan here. The writing was already on the
wall that Apple Mx series was a success and that the company would be
moving forward with those chips alone.
The Intel Mac Pro was the only machine possible to have more than
192GB RAM
until the 2025 Studio and M3 Ultra.
Yeah, I recall that being the case. Nevertheless, it still seemed like a
bad decision. Would you buy a car you knew wouldn't have parts available
for repair two or three years after purchase?
On 2026-09-17 10:15 a.m., Chris wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-09-15 12:01 a.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 18:54, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 9:40 PM, Alan wrote:If someone bought an Intel Mac Pro in 2023, when it was completely
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
It should be beyond 2028, though.
Because you know so much....
What about someone who purchased a Mac Pro in 2023?
obvious that it was an orphan product...
...well they're idiots.
I would have to agree with Alan here. The writing was already on the
wall that Apple Mx series was a success and that the company would be
moving forward with those chips alone.
The Intel Mac Pro was the only machine possible to have more than 192GB RAM >> until the 2025 Studio and M3 Ultra.
Yeah, I recall that being the case. Nevertheless, it still seemed like a
bad decision. Would you buy a car you knew wouldn't have parts available
for repair two or three years after purchase?
On 2026-09-17 07:15, Chris wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-09-15 12:01 a.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-09-14 18:54, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/14/2026 9:40 PM, Alan wrote:
I see that in the many years that have passed since I used >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Safari, Google actually used code from Apple's engine in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chromium, though I would still bet that Apple found some way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to screw up Safari.
Whereby "bet" you actually mean:
"guess with no clue whatsoever".
It's an educated guess, but yeah, I don't know.-a It could be >>>>>>>>>>>>> that Safari is competitive with Chrome and Firefox.
No. You just admitted that it is completely UNeducated: >>>>>>>>>>>>
"I see that in the many years that have passed since I used >>>>>>>>>>>> Safari"
The educated aspect comes from having used Safari in the past >>>>>>>>>>> and Apple's software generally, they're incompetent, brain- >>>>>>>>>>> damaged fools, that's why Microsoft was sourced for a friggin' >>>>>>>>>>> BASIC interpreter in the Apple II series, that's why they >>>>>>>>>>> appropriated BSD's kernel for OS X/ macOS, it's just pathetic >>>>>>>>>>> and laughable.
And yet when pressed to explain exactly HOW Apple's software is >>>>>>>>>> inferior, you can never get specific.
It's not necessarily that their software is inferior, but it >>>>>>>>> wasn't created in-house, at least.
What are you even TALKING about.
Apple has created almost ALL of its software in-house.
They never would've gotten the kernel from scratch.
And? So what?
The part that was developed outside of Apple is minuscule compared to >>>>>> what Apple developed in-house.
I would not call that an accurate characterization of what they did. >>>>> They needed the low-level code from BSD's work, to create a kernel for >>>>> their own product.
Ummmmm...absolutely 100% wrong.
Mac OS X came out of NeXTSTEP, which used the Mach kernel, which was
developed as a replacement for the BSD kernel.
If someone bought an Intel Mac Pro in 2023, when it was completely
And really, it doesn't end with that, how about the fact that >>>>>>>>>>> macOS stops supporting moderately older devices?-a Pay another >>>>>>>>>>> $1500, Apple users, time's up with your perfectly functional >>>>>>>>>>> device.-a I admit, Windows 10 became Win11 Lite, while still >>>>>>>>>>> pretending to support devices with HDDs, etc., and that's a fair >>>>>>>>>>> criticism of Microsoft, but Apple is strangely no better even >>>>>>>>>>> though its system *should* in theory still support these >>>>>>>>>>> somewhat older devices!
What "moderately older" device does Apple not support?
Define your terms.
macOS 27 is the first version that doesn't support Intel-based >>>>>>>>>> Macs...
...which were discontinued with the last Intel Mac Pros in mid-2023. >>>>>>>>>>
But Intel-based Macs will still be getting necessary updates >>>>>>>>>> until 2028.
So five years for some Intel Macs.-a And they were still selling >>>>>>>>> Mac Pros with Xeon CPUs when Silicon was becoming a thing.-a Just >>>>>>>>> amazing you'd tolerate such bastardization of hardware, by a >>>>>>>>> company charging the prices it charges for its gear.
<yawn>
Do Intel Macs still work? Yes.
Are they receiving updates through 2028? Yes.
It should be beyond 2028, though.
Because you know so much....
What about someone who purchased a Mac Pro in 2023?
obvious that it was an orphan product...
...well they're idiots.
I would have to agree with Alan here. The writing was already on the
wall that Apple Mx series was a success and that the company would be
moving forward with those chips alone.
The Intel Mac Pro was the only machine possible to have more than 192GB RAM >> until the 2025 Studio and M3 Ultra.
And for some people, that tradeoff (buying an orphan design for the RAM)
was worth it, I'm sure.
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