Looks like it'll get the go-ahead:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gpgrk101yo
Goven the current economic situation I really think there are better railway projects to spend this money on around the country but as usual, London gets more than its fair share of the transport budget. And I speak as a Londoner.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Looks like it'll get the go-ahead:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gpgrk101yo
Goven the current economic situation I really think there are better railway >> projects to spend this money on around the country but as usual, London gets >> more than its fair share of the transport budget. And I speak as a Londoner. >>
Yes, I think a better, quicker, cheaper solution would be to provide >reliable, frequent, good quality bus services between that area and Abbey >Wood and Woolwich stations. You could implement it almost immediately, and >provide multiple sheltered bus stops in the area, with perhaps three
circular routes that link all parts of the estate to the stations, but also >provide useful public transport within the estate. As the developments are >completed and occupied, the bus services could evolve.
This solution would ensure that everywhere in the estate is within 5-10 >minutes walk of public transport, and the total journey time to central >London would be quicker than by the DLR.
On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 11:20:40 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Looks like it'll get the go-ahead:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gpgrk101yo
Goven the current economic situation I really think there are better railway
projects to spend this money on around the country but as usual, London gets
more than its fair share of the transport budget. And I speak as a Londoner.
Yes, I think a better, quicker, cheaper solution would be to provide
reliable, frequent, good quality bus services between that area and Abbey
Wood and Woolwich stations. You could implement it almost immediately, and >> provide multiple sheltered bus stops in the area, with perhaps three
circular routes that link all parts of the estate to the stations, but also >> provide useful public transport within the estate. As the developments are >> completed and occupied, the bus services could evolve.
This solution would ensure that everywhere in the estate is within 5-10
minutes walk of public transport, and the total journey time to central
London would be quicker than by the DLR.
They already have decent bus service, including a Superloop and other
routes to Abbey Wood on the Lizzie Line.
Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
They already have decent bus service, including a Superloop and other
routes to Abbey Wood on the Lizzie Line.
Yes, I see the bus services are better than I remembered. I wonder what the >DLR would add?
On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 16:32:54 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
They already have decent bus service, including a Superloop and other
routes to Abbey Wood on the Lizzie Line.
Yes, I see the bus services are better than I remembered. I wonder what the >>DLR would add?
Since its going to be a spur off the Beckton branch not much IMO. If they
did it off lewisham it would be more useful as people could go one stop to >woolwich and get the Liz line or 3 stops to City Airport, but I guess >digging a tunnel under lots of buildings would be more expensive - and >longer - than just going across the thames.
On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 16:32:54 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
They already have decent bus service, including a Superloop and other
routes to Abbey Wood on the Lizzie Line.
Yes, I see the bus services are better than I remembered. I wonder what the >> DLR would add?
Since its going to be a spur off the Beckton branch not much IMO. If they
did it off lewisham it would be more useful as people could go one stop to woolwich and get the Liz line or 3 stops to City Airport, but I guess digging a tunnel under lots of buildings would be more expensive - and longer - than just going across the thames.
On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 16:41:07 -0000 (UTC)
boltar@caprica.universe gabbled:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 16:32:54 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
They already have decent bus service, including a Superloop and other
routes to Abbey Wood on the Lizzie Line.
Yes, I see the bus services are better than I remembered. I wonder what the >>> DLR would add?
Since its going to be a spur off the Beckton branch not much IMO. If they
did it off lewisham it would be more useful as people could go one stop to >> woolwich and get the Liz line or 3 stops to City Airport, but I guess
digging a tunnel under lots of buildings would be more expensive - and
longer - than just going across the thames.
Lewisham, duh, I meant woolwich obv.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 16:41:07 -0000 (UTC)
boltar@caprica.universe gabbled:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 16:32:54 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
They already have decent bus service, including a Superloop and other >>>>> routes to Abbey Wood on the Lizzie Line.
Yes, I see the bus services are better than I remembered. I wonder what the
DLR would add?
Since its going to be a spur off the Beckton branch not much IMO. If they >>> did it off lewisham it would be more useful as people could go one stop to >>> woolwich and get the Liz line or 3 stops to City Airport, but I guess
digging a tunnel under lots of buildings would be more expensive - and
longer - than just going across the thames.
Lewisham, duh, I meant woolwich obv.
How could they extend the Woolwich DLR branch to Thamesmead? It points
west.
On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 21:39:35 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 16:41:07 -0000 (UTC)
boltar@caprica.universe gabbled:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 16:32:54 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
They already have decent bus service, including a Superloop and other >>>>>> routes to Abbey Wood on the Lizzie Line.
Yes, I see the bus services are better than I remembered. I wonder what the
DLR would add?
Since its going to be a spur off the Beckton branch not much IMO. If they >>>> did it off lewisham it would be more useful as people could go one stop to
woolwich and get the Liz line or 3 stops to City Airport, but I guess >>>> digging a tunnel under lots of buildings would be more expensive - and >>>> longer - than just going across the thames.
Lewisham, duh, I meant woolwich obv.
How could they extend the Woolwich DLR branch to Thamesmead? It points
west.
I presume it points SW to follow the road. Nothing - other than money - would
stop them leaving the current platforms as an emergency terminus/siding and building 2 new ones on a different alignment while keeping the same surface buildings. They ditched an entire branch and station at Island Gardens in the
past.
On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 21:39:35 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 16:41:07 -0000 (UTC)
boltar@caprica.universe gabbled:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 16:32:54 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
They already have decent bus service, including a Superloop and other >>>>>> routes to Abbey Wood on the Lizzie Line.
Yes, I see the bus services are better than I remembered. I wonder what the
DLR would add?
Since its going to be a spur off the Beckton branch not much IMO. If they >>>> did it off lewisham it would be more useful as people could go one stop to >>>> woolwich and get the Liz line or 3 stops to City Airport, but I guess
digging a tunnel under lots of buildings would be more expensive - and >>>> longer - than just going across the thames.
Lewisham, duh, I meant woolwich obv.
How could they extend the Woolwich DLR branch to Thamesmead? It points
west.
I presume it points SW to follow the road. Nothing - other than money - would stop them leaving the current platforms as an emergency terminus/siding and building 2 new ones on a different alignment while keeping the same surface buildings. They ditched an entire branch and station at Island Gardens in the past.
On 21/11/2025 10:26, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 21:39:35 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 16:41:07 -0000 (UTC)
boltar@caprica.universe gabbled:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 16:32:54 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
They already have decent bus service, including a Superloop and other >>>>>>> routes to Abbey Wood on the Lizzie Line.
Yes, I see the bus services are better than I remembered. I wonder what the
DLR would add?
Since its going to be a spur off the Beckton branch not much IMO. If they >>>>> did it off lewisham it would be more useful as people could go one stop to
woolwich and get the Liz line or 3 stops to City Airport, but I guess >>>>> digging a tunnel under lots of buildings would be more expensive - and >>>>> longer - than just going across the thames.
Lewisham, duh, I meant woolwich obv.
How could they extend the Woolwich DLR branch to Thamesmead? It points
west.
I presume it points SW to follow the road. Nothing - other than money - would
stop them leaving the current platforms as an emergency terminus/siding and >> building 2 new ones on a different alignment while keeping the same surface >> buildings. They ditched an entire branch and station at Island Gardens in the
past.
It points SW to reach Woolwich Arsenal NR station for interchange.
Thamesmead barely merits its own line with a terminus, and it's hard to
see which two major places could sensibly be connected via there.
Map and crayon engineering suggests that extending the Barking Riverside branch across the Thames to Abbey Wood with a station in Thamesmead
might provide useful new connections. However, I doubt that this would
be feasible on the ground: it's a congested area.
Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
It points SW to reach Woolwich Arsenal NR station for interchange.
Thamesmead barely merits its own line with a terminus, and it's hard to
see which two major places could sensibly be connected via there.
Map and crayon engineering suggests that extending the Barking Riverside
branch across the Thames to Abbey Wood with a station in Thamesmead
might provide useful new connections. However, I doubt that this would
be feasible on the ground: it's a congested area.
Checking gooogle maps and carto metro, the DLR Woolwich branch curves round >from its tunnel and terminates facing north west. To "extend" this to >Thamesmead by "building new platforms on a new alignment" as suggested,
would basically mean an entirely new sub-river tunnel from George V
station. By the time you're building an entire new sub-river tunnel, does
it really matter which branch from Canning Town it connects into? Or
On Sat, 22 Nov 2025 13:57:11 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> gabbled:
Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
It points SW to reach Woolwich Arsenal NR station for interchange.
Thamesmead barely merits its own line with a terminus, and it's hard to
see which two major places could sensibly be connected via there.
Map and crayon engineering suggests that extending the Barking Riverside >>> branch across the Thames to Abbey Wood with a station in Thamesmead
might provide useful new connections. However, I doubt that this would
be feasible on the ground: it's a congested area.
Checking gooogle maps and carto metro, the DLR Woolwich branch curves round >> from its tunnel and terminates facing north west. To "extend" this to
Thamesmead by "building new platforms on a new alignment" as suggested,
would basically mean an entirely new sub-river tunnel from George V
Thats actually probably a better idea than extending from woolwich.
station. By the time you're building an entire new sub-river tunnel, does
it really matter which branch from Canning Town it connects into? Or
Depends how you look at it. If the purpose is simply have Some DLR Station
in Thamesmead then no, but a link from south of the river directly to City Airport would be a lot more useful than one that potters along past Excel. Lets not forget the unfathomable decision not to have a City Airport station on the Liz Line when its literally 150 metres from the liz line track to the main terminal! Yes we've had all the excuses , not enough room , people would have to walk that distance - as if they don't walk even further at heathrow and gatwick - blah blah blah. Its all bollocks. Both Factory Road and Albert Road could have been shoved into underpasses to give enough room for station platforms. But anyway, it seems railway alignment decisions in east london seem to be made on the basis of whats cheapest, not whats most useful.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
have to walk that distance - as if they don't walk even further at heathrow >> and gatwick - blah blah blah. Its all bollocks. Both Factory Road and Albert >> Road could have been shoved into underpasses to give enough room for station >> platforms. But anyway, it seems railway alignment decisions in east london >> seem to be made on the basis of whats cheapest, not whats most useful.
Why do you think a link to LCY would be more useful than a link to the
Excel?
ItrCOs a tiny airport, with high fares, served by infrequent small
planes from a very limited number of cities. The direct link to Heathrow
(and one-change to Gatwick, Luton and Stansted) from Abbey Wood (and Custom >House in the future) is far more useful. And why do you think Beckton >Riverside wonrCOt be needed?
In any case, the Woolwich branch is probably too busy to handle a whole lot >of additional passengers.
This is one of your signature proposals: much more expensive, and much less >useful, than the one the experts have devised. I must say, yourCOre really >good at this.
On Sat, 22 Nov 2025 16:37:17 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
have to walk that distance - as if they don't walk even further at heathrow
and gatwick - blah blah blah. Its all bollocks. Both Factory Road and Albert
Road could have been shoved into underpasses to give enough room for station
platforms. But anyway, it seems railway alignment decisions in east london >>> seem to be made on the basis of whats cheapest, not whats most useful.
Why do you think a link to LCY would be more useful than a link to the
Excel?
I suspect the number of people who visit Excel vs the number who go to the airport will be pretty small 90% of the time.
ItrCOs a tiny airport, with high fares, served by infrequent small
planes from a very limited number of cities. The direct link to Heathrow
And being an absolute PITA to get to obviously has nothing to do with that.
(and one-change to Gatwick, Luton and Stansted) from Abbey Wood (and Custom >> House in the future) is far more useful. And why do you think Beckton
Riverside wonrCOt be needed?
The DLR has been going to Beckton for 30 years yet its not exactly a thriving metropolis even now.
In any case, the Woolwich branch is probably too busy to handle a whole lot >> of additional passengers.
I doubt thats a problem now the EL has stolen a lot of its passengers, not that I suspect too many people used it instead of BR to get to central london anyway. Why sit on a trundling DLR train for 30 mins when you can get a
fast train direct to Cannon Street (or whereever) in half the time.
This is one of your signature proposals: much more expensive, and much less >> useful, than the one the experts have devised. I must say, yourCOre really >> good at this.
And you're really got at not seeing the obvious but just assuming a decision made by your betters automatically means its the right one.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
I suspect the number of people who visit Excel vs the number who go to the >> airport will be pretty small 90% of the time.
Why do you think the chavs from Thamesmead will be rushing to take short, >high priced flights on cramped, small planes to short-haul business >destinations?
ItrCOs a tiny airport, with high fares, served by infrequent smallAnd being an absolute PITA to get to obviously has nothing to do with that.
planes from a very limited number of cities. The direct link to Heathrow >>
For once, yourCOre absolutely right. The number of flights and passengers, >the hours of operation and the plane sizes are all restricted. There would
be zero increase in usage by improving access, which is fine already.
(and one-change to Gatwick, Luton and Stansted) from Abbey Wood (and Custom >>> House in the future) is far more useful. And why do you think Beckton
Riverside wonrCOt be needed?
The DLR has been going to Beckton for 30 years yet its not exactly a thriving
metropolis even now.
So thererCOs spare capacity on that branch.
And you're really got at not seeing the obvious but just assuming a decision >> made by your betters automatically means its the right one.
I take the trouble to analyse the proposals. You simply, unerringly, always >manage to come up with a much worse, more expensive alternative.
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