• Plusnet or EE Broadband

    From Jeff Gaines@jgnewsid@outlook.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Thu May 14 10:03:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband


    Plusnet have now advised me that because of the digital switchover and my failure to switch packages they are going to transfer me to EE - unless I change my package earlier.

    The cost and package will be the same, including landline.

    I am tempted to make the switch to EE because one of their services
    includes a SIM in the modem/router so if main broadband is down (happened
    here for a week last year) I would get Internet via the SIM.

    What is EE/BT's support like now? It used to be utter crap which is why I switched to Plusnet. In addition my road is wired for BT FTTP, although my house seems to be a problem, so I may have a better chance of getting FTTP with EE perhaps.

    Thoughts/experience welcome :-)
    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.
    (Ken Olson, president Digital Equipment, 1977)
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rupert Moss-Eccardt@news@moss-eccardt.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Thu May 14 12:28:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 14 May 2026 10:03:54 GMT, "Jeff Gaines" wrote:

    Plusnet have now advised me that because of the digital switchover and my failure to switch packages they are going to transfer me to EE - unless I change my package earlier.

    The cost and package will be the same, including landline.

    I am tempted to make the switch to EE because one of their services
    includes a SIM in the modem/router so if main broadband is down (happened here for a week last year) I would get Internet via the SIM.

    What is EE/BT's support like now? It used to be utter crap which is why I switched to Plusnet. In addition my road is wired for BT FTTP, although my house seems to be a problem, so I may have a better chance of getting FTTP with EE perhaps.

    Thoughts/experience welcome :-)

    The people are generally lovely but the OSS/BSS stack is pretty grim in
    places and the actually technology does behave strangely at times which
    the "guides" don't have the tools to fix.

    EE have told the Ombudsman that they can't guarantee a robust service
    for everyone as it isn't their technology. The Ombudsman accepted that
    as it was patently true.

    For me the EE broadband FTTP service and the hub and extenders are
    by-and-large good enough for me but the Digital Voice was substandard
    so I know use A&A with an ATA of my own.

    My parents-in-law have Vonage as that is turn-key.

    The EE TV is pretty good, though it no longer records BBC programs,
    instead redirecting to iPlayer.

    If you are one of the unlucky ones, as I am, the OSS/BSS stack needs knife-and-forking for any change so it takes a number of phone calls
    and weeks.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rupert Moss-Eccardt@news@moss-eccardt.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Thu May 14 12:29:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 14 May 2026 12:28, Rupert Moss-Eccardt wrote:
    On 14 May 2026 10:03:54 GMT, "Jeff Gaines" wrote:
    [snip]

    If you are one of the unlucky ones, as I am, the OSS/BSS stack needs knife-and-forking for any change so it takes a number of phone calls
    and weeks.

    Worth noting that the OSS stack is common between EE/BT/PlusNet but, of
    course, getting a new account will at least give some chance of it
    being smooth.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Graham J@nobody@nowhere.co.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Thu May 14 14:58:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    Plusnet have now advised me that because of the digital switchover and
    my failure to switch packages they are going to transfer me to EE -
    unless I change my package earlier.

    The cost and package will be the same, including landline.

    I am tempted to make the switch to EE because one of their services
    includes a SIM in the modem/router so if main broadband is down
    (happened here for a week last year) I would get Internet via the SIM.

    What is EE/BT's support like now? It used to be utter crap which is why
    I switched to Plusnet. In addition my road is wired for BT FTTP,
    although my house seems to be a problem, so I may have a better chance
    of getting FTTP with EE perhaps.

    Thoughts/experience welcome :-)


    Get FTTP from Zen, for broadband only. At least then you can deal with
    real people in England who understand the technical issues. The
    infrastructure for FTTP will likely be BT, but worth asking Zen whether
    this is true for your location.

    When FTTP is working, get a VoIP service (I use Voipfone), and port your landline number to that service. This will break the landline which (probably) carries your current FTTC (or ADSL) service. Make sure you
    port the number first otherwise you risk losing it.

    A SIM for a backup connection is completely pointless unless you have a
    really good 4G or 5G service in your area. If that is actually true you
    might as well ditch the Plusnet service completely and rely on the
    mobile signal for broadband and phone. Worth avoiding a mobile service
    that uses CGNAT.
    --
    Graham J
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark Carver@mark@invalid.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri May 15 15:38:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 14/05/2026 14:58, Graham J wrote:

    When FTTP is working, get a VoIP service (I use Voipfone), and port your landline number to that service.-a This will break the landline which (probably) carries your current FTTC (or ADSL) service.-a Make sure you
    port the number first otherwise you risk losing it.
    Porting the landline number with the existing FTTC service from Plusnet
    still active will kill the broadband service stone dead at the same time.

    I think the OP's best option is to renew his service with Plusnet, which
    will convert it to SoGEA by default (Broadband without a voice circuit)
    wait a day, and then ask Voipfone (or whoever) to port his number into
    their system.

    Ofcom rules specify that ISPs and Openreach must keep a landline number available for porting for 30 days after a SoGEA conversion.

    The only downside, is his number will be 'dead' for a few days, before
    it pops up in Voip-Land
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Gaines@jgnewsid@outlook.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri May 15 14:57:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 15/05/2026 in message <10u7b57$9f3p$1@dont-email.me> Mark Carver wrote:

    On 14/05/2026 14:58, Graham J wrote:

    When FTTP is working, get a VoIP service (I use Voipfone), and port your >>landline number to that service.-a This will break the landline which >>(probably) carries your current FTTC (or ADSL) service.-a Make sure you >>port the number first otherwise you risk losing it.
    Porting the landline number with the existing FTTC service from Plusnet >still active will kill the broadband service stone dead at the same time.

    I think the OP's best option is to renew his service with Plusnet, which >will convert it to SoGEA by default (Broadband without a voice circuit)
    wait a day, and then ask Voipfone (or whoever) to port his number into
    their system.

    Ofcom rules specify that ISPs and Openreach must keep a landline number >available for porting for 30 days after a SoGEA conversion.

    The only downside, is his number will be 'dead' for a few days, before it >pops up in Voip-Land

    Many thanks for all the replies :-)

    I did a price check, Zen is expensive compared, A&A is ludicrous, so I
    will either stick with Plusnet or go to BT.
    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    Did you know on the Canary Islands there is not one canary?
    And on the Virgin Islands same thing, not one canary.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri May 15 16:28:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Mark Carver wrote:

    I think the OP's best option is to renew his service with Plusnet, which will convert it to SoGEA by default (Broadband without a voice circuit)
    wait a day, and then ask Voipfone (or whoever) to port his number into
    their system.

    Exactly what I did, I think the old number can be ported up to 30 days
    after converting from FTTC to SoGEA. I already had a Gigaset DECT base
    that handles the VoIP.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rupert Moss-Eccardt@news@moss-eccardt.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri May 15 18:18:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 15 May 2026 14:57:15 GMT, "Jeff Gaines" wrote:
    On 15/05/2026 in message <10u7b57$9f3p$1@dont-email.me> Mark Carver wrote:

    On 14/05/2026 14:58, Graham J wrote:

    When FTTP is working, get a VoIP service (I use Voipfone), and port
    your
    landline number to that service.-a This will break the landline which

    (probably) carries your current FTTC (or ADSL) service.-a Make sure
    you
    port the number first otherwise you risk losing it.
    Porting the landline number with the existing FTTC service from
    Plusnet
    still active will kill the broadband service stone dead at the same
    time.

    I think the OP's best option is to renew his service with Plusnet,
    which
    will convert it to SoGEA by default (Broadband without a voice
    circuit)
    wait a day, and then ask Voipfone (or whoever) to port his number
    into
    their system.

    Ofcom rules specify that ISPs and Openreach must keep a landline
    number
    available for porting for 30 days after a SoGEA conversion.

    The only downside, is his number will be 'dead' for a few days,
    before it
    pops up in Voip-Land

    Many thanks for all the replies :-)

    I did a price check, Zen is expensive compared, A&A is ludicrous, so I
    will either stick with Plusnet or go to BT.

    I wasn't suggesting A&A for your broadband but just for VOIP.
    -u12 to port, one off and then -u1.56/month with no call bundle.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Graham J@nobody@nowhere.co.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri May 15 20:19:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    [snip]


    I did a price check, Zen is expensive compared, A&A is ludicrous, so I
    will either stick with Plusnet or go to BT.


    Proper support costs money!

    Have you ever tried getting support from BT? If so, you understand why
    I recommend Zen ...
    --
    Graham J
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tim+@timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri May 15 19:36:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    Plusnet have now advised me that because of the digital switchover and
    my failure to switch packages they are going to transfer me to EE -
    unless I change my package earlier.

    The cost and package will be the same, including landline.

    I am tempted to make the switch to EE because one of their services
    includes a SIM in the modem/router so if main broadband is down
    (happened here for a week last year) I would get Internet via the SIM.

    What is EE/BT's support like now? It used to be utter crap which is why
    I switched to Plusnet. In addition my road is wired for BT FTTP,
    although my house seems to be a problem, so I may have a better chance
    of getting FTTP with EE perhaps.

    Thoughts/experience welcome :-)


    Get FTTP from Zen, for broadband only. At least then you can deal with
    real people in England who understand the technical issues. The infrastructure for FTTP will likely be BT, but worth asking Zen whether
    this is true for your location.

    When FTTP is working, get a VoIP service (I use Voipfone), and port your landline number to that service. This will break the landline which (probably) carries your current FTTC (or ADSL) service. Make sure you
    port the number first otherwise you risk losing it.

    Alternatively, do what your children are doing. Ditch the land line. Saves
    all this faffing with VOIP.

    Tim
    --
    Please don't feed the trolls
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Gaines@jgnewsid@outlook.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri May 15 21:05:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 15/05/2026 in message <10u7rju$flnt$1@dont-email.me> Graham J wrote:

    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    [snip]


    I did a price check, Zen is expensive compared, A&A is ludicrous, so I >>will either stick with Plusnet or go to BT.


    Proper support costs money!

    Have you ever tried getting support from BT? If so, you understand why I >recommend Zen ...

    Yes, as I said in my OP that's why I switched to Plusnet! Is it still as
    bad? Is it still in Mumbai?
    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    Thanks for teaching me the meaning of plethora, it means a lot.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From snipeco.2@snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri May 15 22:11:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:

    Alternatively, do what your children are doing. Ditch the land line.
    Saves all this faffing with VOIP.


    That's what we did. We tried and failed to wean just a few of our
    friends off of calling our landline number. In the end we had to
    terminate the number to get them to actually call our mobiles.

    Strange to relate, all of them did migrate as soon as we did that.
    --
    ^-^. Sn!pe, bird-brain. My pet rock Gordon just is.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark Carver@mark@invalid.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 09:45:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 15/05/2026 22:05, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 15/05/2026 in message <10u7rju$flnt$1@dont-email.me> Graham J wrote:

    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    [snip]


    I did a price check, Zen is expensive compared, A&A is ludicrous, so
    I will either stick with Plusnet or go to BT.


    Proper support costs money!

    Have you ever tried getting support from BT?-a If so, you understand
    why I recommend Zen ...

    Yes, as I said in my OP that's why I switched to Plusnet! Is it still as bad? Is it still in Mumbai?

    I had a pretty complex VDSL fault on my line, Plusnet resolved it (and
    more importantly understood the the nuances of the fault), and applied
    the correct pressure on Openreach. I was lucky that a really excellent Openreach engineer attended the fault, and understood those nuances too.
    He was in his 20s too, which I found refreshing
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark Carver@mark@invalid.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 09:46:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 15/05/2026 22:11, Sn!pe wrote:
    Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:

    Alternatively, do what your children are doing. Ditch the land line.
    Saves all this faffing with VOIP.


    That's what we did. We tried and failed to wean just a few of our
    friends off of calling our landline number. In the end we had to
    terminate the number to get them to actually call our mobiles.

    Strange to relate, all of them did migrate as soon as we did that.


    This is the way, it's not worth all the faffing about
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tweed@usenet.tweed@gmail.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 08:58:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 15/05/2026 22:11, Sn!pe wrote:
    Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:

    Alternatively, do what your children are doing. Ditch the land line.
    Saves all this faffing with VOIP.


    That's what we did. We tried and failed to wean just a few of our
    friends off of calling our landline number. In the end we had to
    terminate the number to get them to actually call our mobiles.

    Strange to relate, all of them did migrate as soon as we did that.


    This is the way, it's not worth all the faffing about


    Yep. I ported my landline number to A&A for the couple of quid per month
    that it costs. All inbound calls go to voicemail which get forwarded to me
    as an email attachment. That mops up the odd residual important call. Those tailed off to zero within a year. ItrCOs just junk calls now. IrCOve not had the heart to dump the number because itrCOs been in the family since before I was born. Strange to be sentimentally attached to a phone numberrCa.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark Carver@mark@invalid.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 10:05:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 16/05/2026 09:58, Tweed wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 15/05/2026 22:11, Sn!pe wrote:
    Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:

    Alternatively, do what your children are doing. Ditch the land line.
    Saves all this faffing with VOIP.


    That's what we did. We tried and failed to wean just a few of our
    friends off of calling our landline number. In the end we had to
    terminate the number to get them to actually call our mobiles.

    Strange to relate, all of them did migrate as soon as we did that.


    This is the way, it's not worth all the faffing about


    Yep. I ported my landline number to A&A for the couple of quid per month
    that it costs. All inbound calls go to voicemail which get forwarded to me
    as an email attachment. That mops up the odd residual important call. Those tailed off to zero within a year. ItrCOs just junk calls now. IrCOve not had the heart to dump the number because itrCOs been in the family since before I was born. Strange to be sentimentally attached to a phone numberrCa.

    I know what you mean. Two years ago I cancelled my mother's
    broadband/landline when she moved into a care home. That number started
    life in 1969 and a three digit one, and grew over the years to become 11 digit.
    It just felt weird to let it go into the ether....

    It's not been recycled yet, I just tried it (with a 141 prefix !) , and
    got, 'You've dialled an incorrect number', it's likely it will probably
    never get recycled ?



    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark Carver@mark@invalid.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 10:18:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 16/05/2026 09:58, Tweed wrote:

    Yep. I ported my landline number to A&A for the couple of quid per month
    that it costs. All inbound calls go to voicemail which get forwarded to me
    as an email attachment. That mops up the odd residual important call.
    I set up a Sipgate number some years ago, and before I SoGEA'd, using
    the same geographical area code, and told a couple elderly relatives
    that was our new number.

    Only ever received I think two or three calls ever, plus a voicemail
    that was a wrong number. Still got the email transcript from that....

    Time: 11 Sep 2025, 10:07

    The following message was left: 'Hi, xxxx. Just so I'm sure you've heard
    from xxxxxx that xxxxx's, well, she had a fall on Thursday. No, Sunday,
    sorry, I think that's what they said. She's died. And it's going to be a funeral on Wednesday the 24th in xxxxx. If you're going, which I guess
    if you're not away, you will be. I'd be very grateful if you give me a
    lift, because I obviously really want to go. Otherwise, if necessary,
    I'll get a taxi. And so, yes, please, if you could. And, oh, dear,
    another of ours gone. So there we are. xxxx seemed okay. Definitely one
    of the boys is sort of sorting everything for him. I think it's xxxx. I
    think he is a lawyer. So anyway, there we are. So xxxx seemed okay. And
    as he said, she broke her leg and she went to hospital. But then she got
    COVID and just shows that's going round now. but on the other hand it
    was probably a lucky way out for her so there we go i think xxx feels
    that too and it's just going to be a thanksgiving and no coffin so
    that's brilliant anyway all best then bye speak to you soon bye'

    Best regards,
    your sipgate team

    I rang them back, to explain they had dialled a wrong number, and they
    might want to try it again, but they didn't stop talking at me for long
    enough to actually take in what I was trying to tell them. I just hung
    up mid rant....
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richmond@dnomhcir@gmx.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 11:02:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    We've definitely lost something with the end of the landline. In
    retrospect it was simple and straight forward. You pick it up, listen
    for a dial tone. When you hear that you know it is working and you
    dial. Althought I have an end result which is the same with VOIP, it
    doesn't feel the same. It is more like an internet facing
    application. Complexity has been brought into my house instead of being
    in the exchange. My phone connects to a router computer with flashing
    lights, and that connects to an optical network terminal computer with
    flashing lights. It's a bit like changing from logging into a mainframe
    to having a PC on the desk. I can do more with it, but there is more
    scope for it to go wrong, and for it to be my responsibility to work out
    why.

    There was an episode of the Waltons where they had a phone installed and considered it a great intrusion into the family meal when it rang. What
    would they make if it now, where you cannot go anywhere or speak to
    anyone without some pointless pinging and bleeping intruding?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 11:25:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On Sat, 16 May 2026 11:02:23 +0100
    Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:

    We've definitely lost something with the end of the landline. In
    retrospect it was simple and straight forward. You pick it up, listen
    for a dial tone. When you hear that you know it is working and you
    dial. Althought I have an end result which is the same with VOIP, it
    doesn't feel the same. It is more like an internet facing
    application. Complexity has been brought into my house instead of
    being in the exchange. My phone connects to a router computer with
    flashing lights, and that connects to an optical network terminal
    computer with flashing lights. It's a bit like changing from logging
    into a mainframe to having a PC on the desk. I can do more with it,
    but there is more scope for it to go wrong, and for it to be my responsibility to work out why.

    There was an episode of the Waltons where they had a phone installed
    and considered it a great intrusion into the family meal when it
    rang. What would they make if it now, where you cannot go anywhere or
    speak to anyone without some pointless pinging and bleeping intruding?

    It doesn't worry me. I only turn my mobile on if I'm either expecting a
    call or I want to make one. That's if I even have it with me.

    Simple.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richmond@dnomhcir@gmx.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 11:33:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Davey <davey@example.invalid> writes:

    On Sat, 16 May 2026 11:02:23 +0100
    Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:

    We've definitely lost something with the end of the landline. In
    retrospect it was simple and straight forward. You pick it up, listen
    for a dial tone. When you hear that you know it is working and you
    dial. Althought I have an end result which is the same with VOIP, it
    doesn't feel the same. It is more like an internet facing
    application. Complexity has been brought into my house instead of
    being in the exchange. My phone connects to a router computer with
    flashing lights, and that connects to an optical network terminal
    computer with flashing lights. It's a bit like changing from logging
    into a mainframe to having a PC on the desk. I can do more with it,
    but there is more scope for it to go wrong, and for it to be my
    responsibility to work out why.

    There was an episode of the Waltons where they had a phone installed
    and considered it a great intrusion into the family meal when it
    rang. What would they make if it now, where you cannot go anywhere or
    speak to anyone without some pointless pinging and bleeping
    intruding?

    It doesn't worry me. I only turn my mobile on if I'm either expecting
    a call or I want to make one. That's if I even have it with me.

    Simple.

    It's simple until you discover that everyone else has a different
    policy.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Gaines@jgnewsid@outlook.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 10:50:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 14/05/2026 in message <xn0pprji116dlli004@news.individual.net> Jeff
    Gaines wrote:

    Plusnet have now advised me that because of the digital switchover and my >failure to switch packages they are going to transfer me to EE - unless I >change my package earlier.

    May I ask a follow up please?

    Anybody know what modem/router EE supply with FTTC?

    The Plusnet version is a PITA in that its cache survives a re-boot so if I re-organise my home network I end up being directed to the wrong machines.

    I wondered if the EE one was better in that respect.
    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    I take full responsibility for what happened - that is why the person that
    was responsible went immediately.
    (Gordon Brown, April 2009)
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 11:50:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On Sat, 16 May 2026 11:33:55 +0100
    Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:

    Davey <davey@example.invalid> writes:

    On Sat, 16 May 2026 11:02:23 +0100
    Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:

    We've definitely lost something with the end of the landline. In
    retrospect it was simple and straight forward. You pick it up,
    listen for a dial tone. When you hear that you know it is working
    and you dial. Althought I have an end result which is the same
    with VOIP, it doesn't feel the same. It is more like an internet
    facing application. Complexity has been brought into my house
    instead of being in the exchange. My phone connects to a router
    computer with flashing lights, and that connects to an optical
    network terminal computer with flashing lights. It's a bit like
    changing from logging into a mainframe to having a PC on the desk.
    I can do more with it, but there is more scope for it to go wrong,
    and for it to be my responsibility to work out why.

    There was an episode of the Waltons where they had a phone
    installed and considered it a great intrusion into the family meal
    when it rang. What would they make if it now, where you cannot go
    anywhere or speak to anyone without some pointless pinging and
    bleeping intruding?

    It doesn't worry me. I only turn my mobile on if I'm either
    expecting a call or I want to make one. That's if I even have it
    with me.

    Simple.

    It's simple until you discover that everyone else has a different
    policy.

    That's their problem! They can always leave a voicemail message. Or
    call what used to be my landline number.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark Carver@mark@invalid.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 12:40:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 16/05/2026 11:50, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 14/05/2026 in message <xn0pprji116dlli004@news.individual.net> Jeff Gaines wrote:

    Plusnet have now advised me that because of the digital switchover and
    my failure to switch packages they are going to transfer me to EE -
    unless I change my package earlier.

    May I ask a follow up please?

    Anybody know what modem/router EE supply with FTTC?

    The Plusnet version is a PITA in that its cache survives a re-boot so if
    I re-organise my home network I end up being directed to the wrong
    machines.

    I wondered if the EE one was better in that respect.

    Why not just buy a proper router, and use that ? All you need is the
    relevant PPPoE log on and password

    BT and I think EE too :-

    bthomehub@btbroadband.com Password <anything>

    Plusnet

    <Plusnet User Name>@plusdsl.net Password <your Plusnet Account Password>




    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Wade@g4ugm@dave.invalid to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 12:49:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 16/05/2026 12:40, Mark Carver wrote:
    On 16/05/2026 11:50, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 14/05/2026 in message <xn0pprji116dlli004@news.individual.net> Jeff
    Gaines wrote:

    Plusnet have now advised me that because of the digital switchover
    and my failure to switch packages they are going to transfer me to EE
    - unless I change my package earlier.

    May I ask a follow up please?

    Anybody know what modem/router EE supply with FTTC?

    The Plusnet version is a PITA in that its cache survives a re-boot so
    if I re-organise my home network I end up being directed to the wrong
    machines.

    I wondered if the EE one was better in that respect.

    Why not just buy a proper router, and use that ? All you need is the relevant PPPoE log on and password

    BT and I think EE too :-

    bthomehub@btbroadband.com-a-a-a Password <anything>

    Plusnet

    <Plusnet User Name>@plusdsl.net-a-a Password <your Plusnet Account Password>




    Not after moving to BT or EE digital voice. The sip password is in the
    router, which IMHO is a good reason to move the voice elsewhere...

    Dave
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From snipeco.2@snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 14:07:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
    [...]
    It doesn't worry me. I only turn my mobile on if I'm either
    expecting a call or I want to make one. That's if I even have it
    with me.

    Simple.

    It's simple until you discover that everyone else has a different
    policy.

    That's their problem! They can always leave a voicemail message.
    Or call what used to be my landline number.

    We've turned our mobile phone voicemail off (we have no landline now)
    because if somebody leaves a voicemail, the onus is on you to return the
    call.

    If it's important enough they'll call again later or send either an SMS
    text or an Internet instant message. We find that these days many
    people prefer to send texts; they don't demand immediate attention if
    you're otherwise engaged and they're still there later when you're free
    to deal with them.
    --
    ^-^. Sn!pe, bird-brain. My pet rock Gordon just is.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Gaines@jgnewsid@outlook.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 13:08:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 16/05/2026 in message <1rv7fgx.rsogbx1nlwhk8N%snipeco.2@gmail.com>
    Sn!pe wrote:

    Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
    [...]
    It doesn't worry me. I only turn my mobile on if I'm either
    expecting a call or I want to make one. That's if I even have it
    with me.

    Simple.

    It's simple until you discover that everyone else has a different
    policy.

    That's their problem! They can always leave a voicemail message.
    Or call what used to be my landline number.

    We've turned our mobile phone voicemail off (we have no landline now)
    because if somebody leaves a voicemail, the onus is on you to return the >call.

    If it's important enough they'll call again later or send either an SMS
    text or an Internet instant message. We find that these days many
    people prefer to send texts; they don't demand immediate attention if
    you're otherwise engaged and they're still there later when you're free
    to deal with them.

    Agree absolutely.

    Many suppliers seem to be moving to 'phone only support, no email or
    tickets.
    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    We chose to do this not because it is easy but because we thought it would
    be easy.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richmond@dnomhcir@gmx.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 14:21:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Davey <davey@example.invalid> writes:

    On Sat, 16 May 2026 11:33:55 +0100
    Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:

    Davey <davey@example.invalid> writes:

    On Sat, 16 May 2026 11:02:23 +0100
    Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:

    We've definitely lost something with the end of the landline. In
    retrospect it was simple and straight forward. You pick it up,
    listen for a dial tone. When you hear that you know it is working
    and you dial. Althought I have an end result which is the same
    with VOIP, it doesn't feel the same. It is more like an internet
    facing application. Complexity has been brought into my house
    instead of being in the exchange. My phone connects to a router
    computer with flashing lights, and that connects to an optical
    network terminal computer with flashing lights. It's a bit like
    changing from logging into a mainframe to having a PC on the desk.
    I can do more with it, but there is more scope for it to go wrong,
    and for it to be my responsibility to work out why.

    There was an episode of the Waltons where they had a phone
    installed and considered it a great intrusion into the family meal
    when it rang. What would they make if it now, where you cannot go
    anywhere or speak to anyone without some pointless pinging and
    bleeping intruding?

    It doesn't worry me. I only turn my mobile on if I'm either
    expecting a call or I want to make one. That's if I even have it
    with me.

    Simple.

    It's simple until you discover that everyone else has a different
    policy.

    That's their problem! They can always leave a voicemail message. Or
    call what used to be my landline number.

    But I mean it isn't their problem when it is their phone. Haven't you
    ever been in a meeting or group where phones are bleeping? or worse
    still, someone answers it and has a loud conversation.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 15:53:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 2026/5/15 22:11:33, Sn!pe wrote:
    Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:

    Alternatively, do what your children are doing. Ditch the land line.
    Saves all this faffing with VOIP.


    That's what we did. We tried and failed to wean just a few of our
    friends off of calling our landline number. In the end we had to
    terminate the number to get them to actually call our mobiles.

    Strange to relate, all of them did migrate as soon as we did that.

    Did you try setting a recorded message saying "this number will shortly
    be disconnected - call 07xxxxxxxxx" or similar, before actually killing it?
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 15:54:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 2026/5/16 11:2:23, Richmond wrote:
    We've definitely lost something with the end of the landline. In
    []
    to having a PC on the desk. I can do more with it, but there is more
    scope for it to go wrong, and for it to be my responsibility to work out
    why.

    Agreed. Even when it _isn't_ your fault, it's now your responsibility to
    fix it.
    []
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark Carver@mark@invalid.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 16:29:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 16/05/2026 15:53, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/5/15 22:11:33, Sn!pe wrote:
    Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:

    Alternatively, do what your children are doing. Ditch the land line.
    Saves all this faffing with VOIP.


    That's what we did. We tried and failed to wean just a few of our
    friends off of calling our landline number. In the end we had to
    terminate the number to get them to actually call our mobiles.

    Strange to relate, all of them did migrate as soon as we did that.

    Did you try setting a recorded message saying "this number will shortly
    be disconnected - call 07xxxxxxxxx" or similar, before actually killing it?

    In my experience no one takes a blind bit of notice of such things,
    rather like 'Road Ahead Closed' signs
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From snipeco.2@snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat May 16 18:49:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:

    On 16/05/2026 15:53, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/5/15 22:11:33, Sn!pe wrote:
    Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:

    Alternatively, do what your children are doing. Ditch the land line.
    Saves all this faffing with VOIP.


    That's what we did. We tried and failed to wean just a few of our
    friends off of calling our landline number. In the end we had to
    terminate the number to get them to actually call our mobiles.

    Strange to relate, all of them did migrate as soon as we did that.

    Did you try setting a recorded message saying "this number will shortly
    be disconnected - call 07xxxxxxxxx" or similar, before actually killing it?

    In my experience no one takes a blind bit of notice of such things,
    rather like 'Road Ahead Closed' signs

    I think that's true. As it happens, I did put an announcement on our
    landline answerphone saying "This number is suspended due to nuisance
    calls. Voicemails left on this number are reviewed very infrequently,
    for prompt attention please call our mobile numbers" but it just made no difference to some people. We did check the voicemails, just in case,
    but nine times out of ten we ignored them.
    --
    ^-^. Sn!pe, bird-brain. My pet rock Gordon just is.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Graham J@nobody@nowhere.co.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun May 17 08:09:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    [snip]


    Anybody know what modem/router EE supply with FTTC?

    The Plusnet version is a PITA in that its cache survives a re-boot so if
    I re-organise my home network I end up being directed to the wrong
    machines.

    I wondered if the EE one was better in that respect.

    Many consumer router retain the DHCP table across a reboot. For most
    people this means that printers, NAS boxes, webcams, and the like retain
    their initially assigned addresses and can be found easily. So it is a
    GOOD THING.

    The table is wiped clean by a factory reset. Such consumer router often
    use TR-069 to establish their credentials for their connection to the
    ISP. So you could do this whenever you re-organise your home network.

    Anybody who manually assigns addresses in their home network should
    understand this issue and at least be able to log into their router to
    flush the DHCP table.
    --
    Graham J
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Gaines@jgnewsid@outlook.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun May 17 07:41:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 17/05/2026 in message <10ubpik$1gf60$1@dont-email.me> Graham J wrote:

    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    [snip]


    Anybody know what modem/router EE supply with FTTC?

    The Plusnet version is a PITA in that its cache survives a re-boot so if >>I re-organise my home network I end up being directed to the wrong >>machines.

    I wondered if the EE one was better in that respect.

    Many consumer router retain the DHCP table across a reboot. For most
    people this means that printers, NAS boxes, webcams, and the like retain >their initially assigned addresses and can be found easily. So it is a
    GOOD THING.

    The table is wiped clean by a factory reset. Such consumer router often
    use TR-069 to establish their credentials for their connection to the ISP.
    So you could do this whenever you re-organise your home network.

    Anybody who manually assigns addresses in their home network should >understand this issue and at least be able to log into their router to
    flush the DHCP table.

    The PN once can't be flushed, it has to be a full factory reset. You can delete some entries manually but it's hard to see their logic in deciding which one.

    I am always astonished by the number of things connected, but that's the
    21st century I suppose :-)
    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    Those are my principles rCo and if you donrCOt like them, well, I have
    others.
    (Groucho Marx)
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Graham J@nobody@nowhere.co.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun May 17 08:47:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Richmond wrote:
    We've definitely lost something with the end of the landline. In
    retrospect it was simple and straight forward. You pick it up, listen
    for a dial tone. When you hear that you know it is working and you
    dial. Although I have an end result which is the same with VOIP, it
    doesn't feel the same. It is more like an internet facing
    application. Complexity has been brought into my house instead of being
    in the exchange. My phone connects to a router computer with flashing
    lights, and that connects to an optical network terminal computer with flashing lights. It's a bit like changing from logging into a mainframe
    to having a PC on the desk. I can do more with it, but there is more
    scope for it to go wrong, and for it to be my responsibility to work out
    why.

    [snip]

    The problem arose because of the decision to offer an internet
    connection over the phone line. Now the phone line was designed in the
    1880s (brilliantly, given the technology of the time) but it was never
    going to be suitable for a sensible internet connection.

    Absolutely the least reliable part of the internet connection is the
    phone line. It is susceptible to electrical and mechanical
    interference, plus its performance is variable and very dependent on
    line length. These difficulties make little difference to a traditional
    voice call but they will all break an internet connection. So despite
    some very clever engineering in the modem chip it really does not
    provide a proper solution.

    Much the same is true for the internet being carried over a mobile phone service, but this time the user has been persuaded to fund the phone by promoting it as costume jewellery and pricing it accordingly.

    It's not so different to imagine early internet connections being made
    via the water supply pipe - perhaps data being encoded in sound waves
    sent through the water - an idea developed from WW2 sonar?

    Further, the copper pairs and the exchange equipment are very expensive
    to maintain.

    By contrast FTTP is a "designed" solution, with predictable performance
    and reliability - subject perhaps only to road menders cutting through
    fibres with a JCB. The exchange equipment can be almost entirely
    replaced by one rack of electronics. For an internet service the user
    does require the ONT and router - but that's quite a reasonable demand
    given the user also has a computer which is why (s)he wants the internet service in the first place.

    But the phone service providers saw that they could minimise their costs
    (and potentially make money from selling scrap copper wire) by providing
    VoIP and getting rid of copper pairs and the exchange building. For an internet user, VoIP can be integrated within their router.

    Radio and TV broadcasters are doing the same - no need for transmitter
    sites, and the consumer doesn't need a dedicated receiver and antenna.

    But VoIP over anything other than FTTP is not sensible. (I am aware
    there are people for whom FTTC is fast enough and sufficiently reliable.)

    Clearly for granny who only wanted a phone service VoIP has been a problem.

    And issues like the need for mains power (or a battery backup) were
    never thought out.
    --
    Graham J
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark Carver@mark@invalid.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun May 17 10:17:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 17/05/2026 08:09, Graham J wrote:
    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    [snip]


    Anybody know what modem/router EE supply with FTTC?

    The Plusnet version is a PITA in that its cache survives a re-boot so
    if I re-organise my home network I end up being directed to the wrong
    machines.

    I wondered if the EE one was better in that respect.

    Many consumer router retain the DHCP table across a reboot.-a For most people this means that printers, NAS boxes, webcams, and the like retain their initially assigned addresses and can be found easily.-a So it is a GOOD THING.

    The table is wiped clean by a factory reset.-a Such consumer router often use TR-069 to establish their credentials for their connection to the
    ISP.-a So you could do this whenever you re-organise your home network.

    Anybody who manually assigns addresses in their home network should understand this issue and at least be able to log into their router to
    flush the DHCP table.

    Why would ordinary people even worry or care about DHCP assignments ?

    For those who are a bit more network savvy, set static IP addresses for 'static items' (Printers, Tellies etc) but restrict the DHCP pool in the router such that those devices fall outside of it. I do that, but don't
    really need to.

    95% of folk have no idea about IP Addresses, (nor do they need to)
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Wade@g4ugm@dave.invalid to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun May 17 10:55:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 17/05/2026 10:17, Mark Carver wrote:
    On 17/05/2026 08:09, Graham J wrote:
    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    [snip]


    Anybody know what modem/router EE supply with FTTC?

    The Plusnet version is a PITA in that its cache survives a re-boot so
    if I re-organise my home network I end up being directed to the wrong
    machines.

    I wondered if the EE one was better in that respect.

    Many consumer router retain the DHCP table across a reboot.-a For most
    people this means that printers, NAS boxes, webcams, and the like
    retain their initially assigned addresses and can be found easily.-a So
    it is a GOOD THING.

    The table is wiped clean by a factory reset.-a Such consumer router
    often use TR-069 to establish their credentials for their connection
    to the ISP.-a So you could do this whenever you re-organise your home
    network.

    Anybody who manually assigns addresses in their home network should
    understand this issue and at least be able to log into their router to
    flush the DHCP table.

    Why would ordinary people even worry or care about DHCP assignments ?

    For those who are a bit more network savvy, set static IP addresses for 'static items' (Printers, Tellies etc) but restrict the DHCP pool in the router such that those devices fall outside of it. I do that, but don't really need to.

    95% of folk have no idea about IP Addresses, (nor do they need to)

    If the current EE and BT routers still behave as they did in the past
    they can run out of IP addresses...

    Dave
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun May 17 12:06:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 2026/5/17 8:47:26, Graham J wrote:
    []
    The problem arose because of the decision to offer an internet
    connection over the phone line. Now the phone line was designed in the 1880s (brilliantly, given the technology of the time) but it was never
    going to be suitable for a sensible internet connection.

    It's worked well enough for me since I got broadband (200x I think) -
    even increasing in speed.

    Absolutely the least reliable part of the internet connection is the
    phone line. It is susceptible to electrical and mechanical
    interference, plus its performance is variable and very dependent on
    line length. These difficulties make little difference to a traditional voice call but they will all break an internet connection. So despite
    some very clever engineering in the modem chip it really does not
    provide a proper solution.

    See above.

    Much the same is true for the internet being carried over a mobile phone service, but this time the user has been persuaded to fund the phone by promoting it as costume jewellery and pricing it accordingly.

    You're not wrong there!

    It's not so different to imagine early internet connections being made
    via the water supply pipe - perhaps data being encoded in sound waves
    sent through the water - an idea developed from WW2 sonar?

    Interesting idea!

    Further, the copper pairs and the exchange equipment are very expensive
    to maintain.

    I keep hearing this. Mine's not failed in 20-odd years.

    By contrast FTTP is a "designed" solution, with predictable performance
    and reliability - subject perhaps only to road menders cutting through fibres with a JCB. The exchange equipment can be almost entirely
    replaced by one rack of electronics. For an internet service the user
    does require the ONT and router - but that's quite a reasonable demand
    given the user also has a computer which is why (s)he wants the internet service in the first place.

    Agreed.

    But the phone service providers saw that they could minimise their costs (and potentially make money from selling scrap copper wire) by providing VoIP and getting rid of copper pairs and the exchange building. For an internet user, VoIP can be integrated within their router.

    (Or not, if the ISP is PlusNet. [Double-irritating given that the
    hardware is actually present in their router.])

    Radio and TV broadcasters are doing the same - no need for transmitter sites, and the consumer doesn't need a dedicated receiver and antenna.

    But, again, if s/he already has it ...

    But VoIP over anything other than FTTP is not sensible. (I am aware
    there are people for whom FTTC is fast enough and sufficiently reliable.)

    I'm one of them.

    Clearly for granny who only wanted a phone service VoIP has been a problem.

    And issues like the need for mains power (or a battery backup) were
    never thought out.

    I'm more cynical, and think that the problem was foreseen, but it was
    hoped it would "go away", and also that 'phone-only customers could be
    mocked as dinosaurs.

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    It's easy to blame others for your own failures.
    No, really Try it.
    - joke section back of Russian newspaper - Steve Rosenberg, 2026-5-12
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris Green@cl@isbd.net to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun May 17 12:13:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 17/05/2026 08:09, Graham J wrote:
    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    [snip]


    Anybody know what modem/router EE supply with FTTC?

    The Plusnet version is a PITA in that its cache survives a re-boot so
    if I re-organise my home network I end up being directed to the wrong
    machines.

    I wondered if the EE one was better in that respect.

    Many consumer router retain the DHCP table across a reboot.-a For most people this means that printers, NAS boxes, webcams, and the like retain their initially assigned addresses and can be found easily.-a So it is a GOOD THING.

    The table is wiped clean by a factory reset.-a Such consumer router often use TR-069 to establish their credentials for their connection to the ISP.-a So you could do this whenever you re-organise your home network.

    Anybody who manually assigns addresses in their home network should understand this issue and at least be able to log into their router to flush the DHCP table.

    Why would ordinary people even worry or care about DHCP assignments ?

    For those who are a bit more network savvy, set static IP addresses for 'static items' (Printers, Tellies etc) but restrict the DHCP pool in the router such that those devices fall outside of it. I do that, but don't really need to.

    95% of folk have no idea about IP Addresses, (nor do they need to)

    Yes, but 'ordinary people' want to use names for things, not numbers.

    The internet 'out there' does this for you, I can connect to Google,
    or DuckDuckGo, or my ISP using a name.

    It's perfectly possible for this to work on a home intranet, it's just
    that what ISPs supply and the behaviour of some devices makes it
    difficult.

    I have local DNS/DHCP set up in my router such that most devices, when
    they connect. say "I'm called ABCDE can you give me an IP address
    please". The router does the necessary and I (and everyone else in
    the household) can connect to ABCDE without knowing its IP address. If
    the router is reset and/or device ABCDE is disconnected for such a
    long time that its IP gets re-used that's not an issue. The name ABCDE
    is associated with the new IP address.

    It's not rocket science to get this to work and domestic routers, as
    supplied by ISPs, could do it easily enough.
    --
    Chris Green
    -+
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark Carver@mark@invalid.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun May 17 15:49:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 17/05/2026 12:13, Chris Green wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 17/05/2026 08:09, Graham J wrote:
    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    [snip]


    Anybody know what modem/router EE supply with FTTC?

    The Plusnet version is a PITA in that its cache survives a re-boot so
    if I re-organise my home network I end up being directed to the wrong
    machines.

    I wondered if the EE one was better in that respect.

    Many consumer router retain the DHCP table across a reboot.-a For most
    people this means that printers, NAS boxes, webcams, and the like retain >>> their initially assigned addresses and can be found easily.-a So it is a >>> GOOD THING.

    The table is wiped clean by a factory reset.-a Such consumer router often >>> use TR-069 to establish their credentials for their connection to the
    ISP.-a So you could do this whenever you re-organise your home network.

    Anybody who manually assigns addresses in their home network should
    understand this issue and at least be able to log into their router to
    flush the DHCP table.

    Why would ordinary people even worry or care about DHCP assignments ?

    For those who are a bit more network savvy, set static IP addresses for
    'static items' (Printers, Tellies etc) but restrict the DHCP pool in the
    router such that those devices fall outside of it. I do that, but don't
    really need to.

    95% of folk have no idea about IP Addresses, (nor do they need to)

    Yes, but 'ordinary people' want to use names for things, not numbers.

    The internet 'out there' does this for you, I can connect to Google,
    or DuckDuckGo, or my ISP using a name.

    It's perfectly possible for this to work on a home intranet, it's just
    that what ISPs supply and the behaviour of some devices makes it
    difficult.

    I have local DNS/DHCP set up in my router such that most devices, when
    they connect. say "I'm called ABCDE can you give me an IP address
    please". The router does the necessary and I (and everyone else in
    the household) can connect to ABCDE without knowing its IP address. If
    the router is reset and/or device ABCDE is disconnected for such a
    long time that its IP gets re-used that's not an issue. The name ABCDE
    is associated with the new IP address.
    I'm still struggling to think of a scenario for your average punter (the
    one who thinks Wifi and Broadband are the same thing) could ever benefit
    from this (either consciously or unconsciously) ?

    Can you give a specific example please ?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun May 17 17:24:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 17/05/2026 12:13, Chris Green wrote:
    The internet 'out there' does this for you, I can connect to Google,
    or DuckDuckGo, or my ISP using a name.

    It's perfectly possible for this to work on a home intranet, it's just
    that what ISPs supply and the behaviour of some devices makes it
    difficult.

    I have local DNS/DHCP set up in my router such that most devices, when
    they connect. say "I'm called ABCDE can you give me an IP address
    please". The router does the necessary and I (and everyone else in
    the household) can connect to ABCDE without knowing its IP address. If
    the router is reset and/or device ABCDE is disconnected for such a
    long time that its IP gets re-used that's not an issue. The name ABCDE
    is associated with the new IP address.
    I'm still struggling to think of a scenario for your average punter (the
    one who thinks Wifi and Broadband are the same thing) could ever benefit from this (either consciously or unconsciously) ?

    Can you give a specific example please ?

    Often, IOT devices provide a web page for local configuration. For example printers tell you the toner status, maintenance information, etc from a web page on their IP. It is helpful to be able to go to http://brother-mfc123/ rather than via the IP address.

    Sometimes this information is available from Windows drivers, but phones/tablets don't use drivers. Sometimes devices announce themselves via mDNS but sometimes they don't.

    Other devices similarly offer their settings via a local web page. There
    may also be a mobile app, but that isn't accessible from a PC.

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris Green@cl@isbd.net to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun May 17 19:22:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:

    Yes, but 'ordinary people' want to use names for things, not numbers.

    The internet 'out there' does this for you, I can connect to Google,
    or DuckDuckGo, or my ISP using a name.

    It's perfectly possible for this to work on a home intranet, it's just
    that what ISPs supply and the behaviour of some devices makes it
    difficult.

    I have local DNS/DHCP set up in my router such that most devices, when
    they connect. say "I'm called ABCDE can you give me an IP address
    please". The router does the necessary and I (and everyone else in
    the household) can connect to ABCDE without knowing its IP address. If
    the router is reset and/or device ABCDE is disconnected for such a
    long time that its IP gets re-used that's not an issue. The name ABCDE
    is associated with the new IP address.
    I'm still struggling to think of a scenario for your average punter (the
    one who thinks Wifi and Broadband are the same thing) could ever benefit from this (either consciously or unconsciously) ?

    Can you give a specific example please ?

    Connecting to my printer - it's called 'oki' because it's an OKI
    printer.

    Slightly more 'techie' having several outside cameras and being able
    to address them by name.
    --
    Chris Green
    -+
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark Carver@mark@invalid.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon May 18 08:27:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 17/05/2026 19:22, Chris Green wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:

    Yes, but 'ordinary people' want to use names for things, not numbers.

    The internet 'out there' does this for you, I can connect to Google,
    or DuckDuckGo, or my ISP using a name.

    It's perfectly possible for this to work on a home intranet, it's just
    that what ISPs supply and the behaviour of some devices makes it
    difficult.

    I have local DNS/DHCP set up in my router such that most devices, when
    they connect. say "I'm called ABCDE can you give me an IP address
    please". The router does the necessary and I (and everyone else in
    the household) can connect to ABCDE without knowing its IP address. If
    the router is reset and/or device ABCDE is disconnected for such a
    long time that its IP gets re-used that's not an issue. The name ABCDE
    is associated with the new IP address.
    I'm still struggling to think of a scenario for your average punter (the
    one who thinks Wifi and Broadband are the same thing) could ever benefit
    from this (either consciously or unconsciously) ?

    Can you give a specific example please ?

    Connecting to my printer - it's called 'oki' because it's an OKI
    printer.

    Slightly more 'techie' having several outside cameras and being able
    to address them by name.

    Yes, I get that, but for the majority of people, it's just a case of
    pressing the WPS button(s) and hoping for the best.

    No one, other than 'people like us' log in to the router's, (or any
    other device's) admin pages. It's probably just as well they don't TBH !
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris Green@cl@isbd.net to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon May 18 08:43:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 17/05/2026 19:22, Chris Green wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:

    Yes, but 'ordinary people' want to use names for things, not numbers.

    The internet 'out there' does this for you, I can connect to Google,
    or DuckDuckGo, or my ISP using a name.

    It's perfectly possible for this to work on a home intranet, it's just >>> that what ISPs supply and the behaviour of some devices makes it
    difficult.

    I have local DNS/DHCP set up in my router such that most devices, when >>> they connect. say "I'm called ABCDE can you give me an IP address
    please". The router does the necessary and I (and everyone else in
    the household) can connect to ABCDE without knowing its IP address. If >>> the router is reset and/or device ABCDE is disconnected for such a
    long time that its IP gets re-used that's not an issue. The name ABCDE >>> is associated with the new IP address.
    I'm still struggling to think of a scenario for your average punter (the >> one who thinks Wifi and Broadband are the same thing) could ever benefit >> from this (either consciously or unconsciously) ?

    Can you give a specific example please ?

    Connecting to my printer - it's called 'oki' because it's an OKI
    printer.

    Slightly more 'techie' having several outside cameras and being able
    to address them by name.

    Yes, I get that, but for the majority of people, it's just a case of pressing the WPS button(s) and hoping for the best.

    No one, other than 'people like us' log in to the router's, (or any
    other device's) admin pages. It's probably just as well they don't TBH !

    But what I am saying is that if the ISP's router was set up sensibly
    then it would provide local DNS, there would be no need for the
    'average punter' to log in to the router at all.
    --
    Chris Green
    -+
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark Carver@mark@invalid.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon May 18 09:12:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 18/05/2026 08:43, Chris Green wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 17/05/2026 19:22, Chris Green wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:

    Yes, but 'ordinary people' want to use names for things, not numbers. >>>>>
    The internet 'out there' does this for you, I can connect to Google, >>>>> or DuckDuckGo, or my ISP using a name.

    It's perfectly possible for this to work on a home intranet, it's just >>>>> that what ISPs supply and the behaviour of some devices makes it
    difficult.

    I have local DNS/DHCP set up in my router such that most devices, when >>>>> they connect. say "I'm called ABCDE can you give me an IP address
    please". The router does the necessary and I (and everyone else in
    the household) can connect to ABCDE without knowing its IP address. If >>>>> the router is reset and/or device ABCDE is disconnected for such a
    long time that its IP gets re-used that's not an issue. The name ABCDE >>>>> is associated with the new IP address.
    I'm still struggling to think of a scenario for your average punter (the >>>> one who thinks Wifi and Broadband are the same thing) could ever benefit >>>> from this (either consciously or unconsciously) ?

    Can you give a specific example please ?

    Connecting to my printer - it's called 'oki' because it's an OKI
    printer.

    Slightly more 'techie' having several outside cameras and being able
    to address them by name.

    Yes, I get that, but for the majority of people, it's just a case of
    pressing the WPS button(s) and hoping for the best.

    No one, other than 'people like us' log in to the router's, (or any
    other device's) admin pages. It's probably just as well they don't TBH !

    But what I am saying is that if the ISP's router was set up sensibly
    then it would provide local DNS, there would be no need for the
    'average punter' to log in to the router at all.

    By what means, and where would the punter see the local DNS names ?

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris Green@cl@isbd.net to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon May 18 09:27:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 18/05/2026 08:43, Chris Green wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 17/05/2026 19:22, Chris Green wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:

    Yes, but 'ordinary people' want to use names for things, not numbers. >>>>>
    The internet 'out there' does this for you, I can connect to Google, >>>>> or DuckDuckGo, or my ISP using a name.

    It's perfectly possible for this to work on a home intranet, it's just >>>>> that what ISPs supply and the behaviour of some devices makes it
    difficult.

    I have local DNS/DHCP set up in my router such that most devices, when >>>>> they connect. say "I'm called ABCDE can you give me an IP address
    please". The router does the necessary and I (and everyone else in >>>>> the household) can connect to ABCDE without knowing its IP address. If >>>>> the router is reset and/or device ABCDE is disconnected for such a >>>>> long time that its IP gets re-used that's not an issue. The name ABCDE >>>>> is associated with the new IP address.
    I'm still struggling to think of a scenario for your average punter (the >>>> one who thinks Wifi and Broadband are the same thing) could ever benefit >>>> from this (either consciously or unconsciously) ?

    Can you give a specific example please ?

    Connecting to my printer - it's called 'oki' because it's an OKI
    printer.

    Slightly more 'techie' having several outside cameras and being able
    to address them by name.

    Yes, I get that, but for the majority of people, it's just a case of
    pressing the WPS button(s) and hoping for the best.

    No one, other than 'people like us' log in to the router's, (or any
    other device's) admin pages. It's probably just as well they don't TBH !

    But what I am saying is that if the ISP's router was set up sensibly
    then it would provide local DNS, there would be no need for the
    'average punter' to log in to the router at all.

    By what means, and where would the punter see the local DNS names ?

    Whwnever [s]he wants to access a printer, a camera or whatever.
    --
    Chris Green
    -+
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tweed@usenet.tweed@gmail.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon May 18 10:14:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 18/05/2026 08:43, Chris Green wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 17/05/2026 19:22, Chris Green wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:

    Yes, but 'ordinary people' want to use names for things, not numbers. >>>>>>>
    The internet 'out there' does this for you, I can connect to Google, >>>>>>> or DuckDuckGo, or my ISP using a name.

    It's perfectly possible for this to work on a home intranet, it's just >>>>>>> that what ISPs supply and the behaviour of some devices makes it >>>>>>> difficult.

    I have local DNS/DHCP set up in my router such that most devices, when >>>>>>> they connect. say "I'm called ABCDE can you give me an IP address >>>>>>> please". The router does the necessary and I (and everyone else in >>>>>>> the household) can connect to ABCDE without knowing its IP address. If >>>>>>> the router is reset and/or device ABCDE is disconnected for such a >>>>>>> long time that its IP gets re-used that's not an issue. The name ABCDE >>>>>>> is associated with the new IP address.
    I'm still struggling to think of a scenario for your average punter (the >>>>>> one who thinks Wifi and Broadband are the same thing) could ever benefit >>>>>> from this (either consciously or unconsciously) ?

    Can you give a specific example please ?

    Connecting to my printer - it's called 'oki' because it's an OKI
    printer.

    Slightly more 'techie' having several outside cameras and being able >>>>> to address them by name.

    Yes, I get that, but for the majority of people, it's just a case of
    pressing the WPS button(s) and hoping for the best.

    No one, other than 'people like us' log in to the router's, (or any
    other device's) admin pages. It's probably just as well they don't TBH ! >>>
    But what I am saying is that if the ISP's router was set up sensibly
    then it would provide local DNS, there would be no need for the
    'average punter' to log in to the router at all.

    By what means, and where would the punter see the local DNS names ?

    Whwnever [s]he wants to access a printer, a camera or whatever.


    DoesnrCOt mDNS, Bonjour (and other OS variants thereof) solve all of this
    these days?

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon May 18 11:28:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 18/05/2026 08:43, Chris Green wrote:

    But what I am saying is that if the ISP's router was set up sensibly
    then it would provide local DNS, there would be no need for the
    'average punter' to log in to the router at all.

    By what means, and where would the punter see the local DNS names ?

    When the device does DHCP, it offers its device name as part of the request.
    A sensible router will create an entry for its local DNS resolver for device-name so that http://device-name/ works.

    Often that is printed on a label on the device, ie it tells
    you to go to http://vendorname-serialno/ for config settings.

    Whwnever [s]he wants to access a printer, a camera or whatever.


    DoesnrCOt mDNS, Bonjour (and other OS variants thereof) solve all of this these days?

    Sometimes, but it's quite a heavyweight stack. It may be implemented on
    things which are running Linux underneath, but on IOT devices running on a microcontroller (which is enough to do wifi and provide a web interface)
    it's less likely to be implemented.

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark Carver@mark@invalid.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon May 18 11:59:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 18/05/2026 09:27, Chris Green wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 18/05/2026 08:43, Chris Green wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 17/05/2026 19:22, Chris Green wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:

    Yes, but 'ordinary people' want to use names for things, not numbers. >>>>>>>
    The internet 'out there' does this for you, I can connect to Google, >>>>>>> or DuckDuckGo, or my ISP using a name.

    It's perfectly possible for this to work on a home intranet, it's just >>>>>>> that what ISPs supply and the behaviour of some devices makes it >>>>>>> difficult.

    I have local DNS/DHCP set up in my router such that most devices, when >>>>>>> they connect. say "I'm called ABCDE can you give me an IP address >>>>>>> please". The router does the necessary and I (and everyone else in >>>>>>> the household) can connect to ABCDE without knowing its IP address. If >>>>>>> the router is reset and/or device ABCDE is disconnected for such a >>>>>>> long time that its IP gets re-used that's not an issue. The name ABCDE >>>>>>> is associated with the new IP address.
    I'm still struggling to think of a scenario for your average punter (the >>>>>> one who thinks Wifi and Broadband are the same thing) could ever benefit >>>>>> from this (either consciously or unconsciously) ?

    Can you give a specific example please ?

    Connecting to my printer - it's called 'oki' because it's an OKI
    printer.

    Slightly more 'techie' having several outside cameras and being able >>>>> to address them by name.

    Yes, I get that, but for the majority of people, it's just a case of
    pressing the WPS button(s) and hoping for the best.

    No one, other than 'people like us' log in to the router's, (or any
    other device's) admin pages. It's probably just as well they don't TBH ! >>>
    But what I am saying is that if the ISP's router was set up sensibly
    then it would provide local DNS, there would be no need for the
    'average punter' to log in to the router at all.

    By what means, and where would the punter see the local DNS names ?

    Whwnever [s]he wants to access a printer, a camera or whatever.


    Yes, well, most people only have one domestic printer, so any
    instruction to 'print' will just default to it anyway. Other devices
    (given that few people now use desktops or laptops) are normally a
    Bluetooth interface (from phone or tablet)

    I get where you're coming from, but I think you massively overestimate
    the network set up in the average home.

    IoT devices use 'under the bonnet' Bluetooth comms from a mobile phone
    or tablet to get themselves connected to domestic Wifi, and it's pretty
    idiot proof and easy
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richmond@dnomhcir@gmx.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon May 18 12:13:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> writes:

    On 18/05/2026 09:27, Chris Green wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 18/05/2026 08:43, Chris Green wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 17/05/2026 19:22, Chris Green wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:

    Yes, but 'ordinary people' want to use names for things, not
    numbers.

    The internet 'out there' does this for you, I can connect to
    Google, or DuckDuckGo, or my ISP using a name.

    It's perfectly possible for this to work on a home intranet,
    it's just that what ISPs supply and the behaviour of some
    devices makes it difficult.

    I have local DNS/DHCP set up in my router such that most
    devices, when they connect. say "I'm called ABCDE can you give >>>>>>>> me an IP address please". The router does the necessary and I >>>>>>>> (and everyone else in the household) can connect to ABCDE
    without knowing its IP address. If the router is reset and/or
    device ABCDE is disconnected for such a long time that its IP
    gets re-used that's not an issue. The name ABCDE is associated >>>>>>>> with the new IP address. >>>>>>> I'm still struggling to think >>>>>>>> of a scenario for your average punter (the >>>>>>> one who
    thinks Wifi and Broadband are the same thing) could ever
    benefit >>>>>>> from this (either consciously or unconsciously) >>>>>>>> ?

    Can you give a specific example please ?

    Connecting to my printer - it's called 'oki' because it's an OKI
    printer.

    Slightly more 'techie' having several outside cameras and being
    able to address them by name.

    Yes, I get that, but for the majority of people, it's just a case
    of pressing the WPS button(s) and hoping for the best.

    No one, other than 'people like us' log in to the router's, (or
    any other device's) admin pages. It's probably just as well they
    don't TBH !

    But what I am saying is that if the ISP's router was set up
    sensibly then it would provide local DNS, there would be no need
    for the 'average punter' to log in to the router at all.

    By what means, and where would the punter see the local DNS names ?

    Whwnever [s]he wants to access a printer, a camera or whatever.


    Yes, well, most people only have one domestic printer, so any
    instruction to 'print' will just default to it anyway. Other devices
    (given that few people now use desktops or laptops) are normally a
    Bluetooth interface (from phone or tablet)

    I get where you're coming from, but I think you massively overestimate
    the network set up in the average home.

    IoT devices use 'under the bonnet' Bluetooth comms from a mobile phone
    or tablet to get themselves connected to domestic Wifi, and it's
    pretty idiot proof and easy

    A 2025 survey found that 74% of UK respondents owned a laptop.

    My router identified all but one of seven devices with a name, and for
    that one exception I added a name which has been there ever since. Each
    has a name, IP address, and MAC address in the traffic status table.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2