From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

WerCOve upgraded our Zen internet to 900mbps but as we use Wi-Fi for all our connections to our mobile devices itrCOs possibly a waste of time with our current devices and Wi-Fi system.

We currently use the BT Home Wi-Fi mesh system (the one with the round
disks) https://www.bt.com/help/user-guides/broadband-and-wi-fi-devices/wi-fi-and-home-networking/wi-fi-home-hotspots/bt-whole-home-wi-fi

WerCOve had it for years and itrCOs been great but I dare say tech has moved on since then. What IrCOm not sure about is whether upgrading our mesh system will significantly improve speed to our mobile devices (ipads, iPhone 14
and Pixel 10a android phone) given their limitations.

So, two questions really. Is it worth upgrading our mesh system based on
our present mobile devices and if so, any recommendations for systems? I
think we really need 4 rCLnodesrCY for our house. Currently managing with three but more would be better.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
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From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:

WerCOve had it for years and itrCOs been great but I dare say tech has moved on
since then. What IrCOm not sure about is whether upgrading our mesh system will significantly improve speed to our mobile devices (ipads, iPhone 14
and Pixel 10a android phone) given their limitations.

So, two questions really. Is it worth upgrading our mesh system based on
our present mobile devices and if so, any recommendations for systems? I think we really need 4 rCLnodesrCY for our house. Currently managing with three
but more would be better.

It's hard to say what upgrading will bring, as it depends so much on your
local environment - building construction, other nearby wifi networks, congestion. But I note your system Wifi 5 (802.11ac) and we're now on Wifi
7 (802.11be), and one of the things they have improved is handling of
congested environments.

One thing that will improve things, perhaps even with your existing nodes,
is hardwiring them to ethernet rather than relying on wireless backhaul.

Or you could buy a new system and return it if there was insufficient improvement.

Another thing to do is set up tools to measure the actual wireless bandwidth between local machines, rather than speedtests via the internet. I use the tool 'iperf3' running on a computer ('iperf3 -s' run the server) and then various iperf3 clients on other devices. That gives you a measurement of
the point to point bandwidth between local machines, and it also gives you
some measure of the variation - often dodgy wifi can be working one second
and then drop out the next. eg on a slow wifi 4 access point:

$ iperf3 -c raspberrypi
Connecting to host raspberrypi, port 5201
[ 5] local 192.168.1.198 port 58038 connected to 192.168.1.99 port 5201
[ ID] Interval Transfer Bitrate Retr Cwnd
[ 5] 0.00-1.00 sec 1.38 MBytes 11.5 Mbits/sec 5 52.3 KBytes [ 5] 1.00-2.00 sec 1.00 MBytes 8.39 Mbits/sec 7 25.5 KBytes [ 5] 2.00-3.00 sec 1.25 MBytes 10.5 Mbits/sec 1 35.4 KBytes [ 5] 3.00-4.00 sec 1.12 MBytes 9.44 Mbits/sec 2 33.9 KBytes [ 5] 4.00-5.00 sec 1.25 MBytes 10.5 Mbits/sec 1 45.2 KBytes [ 5] 5.00-6.00 sec 1.50 MBytes 12.6 Mbits/sec 2 36.8 KBytes [ 5] 6.00-7.00 sec 1.12 MBytes 9.43 Mbits/sec 2 31.1 KBytes [ 5] 7.00-8.00 sec 1.00 MBytes 8.39 Mbits/sec 1 35.4 KBytes [ 5] 8.00-9.00 sec 1.25 MBytes 10.5 Mbits/sec 2 32.5 KBytes [ 5] 9.00-10.00 sec 1.12 MBytes 9.43 Mbits/sec 2 29.7 KBytes - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[ ID] Interval Transfer Bitrate Retr
[ 5] 0.00-10.00 sec 12.0 MBytes 10.1 Mbits/sec 25 sender
[ 5] 0.00-10.01 sec 11.6 MBytes 9.72 Mbits/sec receiver

iperf Done.


Theo
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From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

Tim+ wrote:

WerCOve upgraded our Zen internet to 900mbps but as we use Wi-Fi for all our connections to our mobile devices itrCOs possibly a waste of time with our current devices and Wi-Fi system.

(ipads, iPhone 14
and Pixel 10a android phone)

That iphone supports wifi6, the pixel supports 6e (uses 6 GHz in
addition to the common 2.4 and 5 GHz) so you'd want at least a router
that supports 6e, and if coverage is an issue mesh nodes that support
the same. wifi7 would buy you some future proofing (pre-release wifi8
devices are likely to start appearing next year).

But on a phone, have you got eyeballs capable of taking-in hundreds of
Mbps of pixels?

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

On 12 Sep 2026 20:50, Andy Burns wrote:

Tim+ wrote:

WerCOve upgraded our Zen internet to 900mbps but as we use Wi-Fi for all our >> connections to our mobile devices itrCOs possibly a waste of time with our >> current devices and Wi-Fi system.

(ipads, iPhone 14
and Pixel 10a android phone)

That iphone supports wifi6, the pixel supports 6e (uses 6 GHz in
addition to the common 2.4 and 5 GHz) so you'd want at least a router
that supports 6e, and if coverage is an issue mesh nodes that support
the same. wifi7 would buy you some future proofing (pre-release wifi8 devices are likely to start appearing next year).

But on a phone, have you got eyeballs capable of taking-in hundreds of
Mbps of pixels?

Where I get most benefit from fast Wi-Fi in the home and onwards to the Internet is uploading photos.

Need to register a new gadget for warranty? Take a photo of the invoice
or serial number and it is in the cloud before I need to attach it to
the form.

Within the house, showing a recent phone photo on the tablet or the TV
is seamless and without delay



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

On 12/09/2026 20:09, Tim+ wrote:

WerCOve upgraded our Zen internet to 900mbps but as we use Wi-Fi for all our connections to our mobile devices itrCOs possibly a waste of time with our current devices and Wi-Fi system.

We currently use the BT Home Wi-Fi mesh system (the one with the round
disks) https://www.bt.com/help/user-guides/broadband-and-wi-fi-devices/wi-fi-and-home-networking/wi-fi-home-hotspots/bt-whole-home-wi-fi

WerCOve had it for years and itrCOs been great but I dare say tech has moved on
since then. What IrCOm not sure about is whether upgrading our mesh system will significantly improve speed to our mobile devices (ipads, iPhone 14
and Pixel 10a android phone) given their limitations.

So, two questions really. Is it worth upgrading our mesh system based on
our present mobile devices and if so, any recommendations for systems? I think we really need 4 rCLnodesrCY for our house. Currently managing with three
but more would be better.

I 'rolled my own' with a pair of old routers flashed to DD-WRT in
Wireless Repeater mode, in addition to our main router.

In a hub and spoke arrangement (so not a true mesh) the 802.11ac
connections even with self-backhaul are fast enough to maintain the performance of M250 Virgin broadband (where we typically see north of
200/20 and often 270/27 speeds on most devices).

And DD-WRT adds a supplementary virtual AP running 802.11n at 2.4 GHz
which gets us better range albeit rather slower (roughly 40-100Mbps downstream, 10-15 up) outside the house into the garden.

I did the same in daughter's student house with five such routers and it worked fine for what they needed. Some repeaters were daisy-chained.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

On 12/09/2026 20:09, Tim+ wrote:

WerCOve upgraded our Zen internet to 900mbps but as we use Wi-Fi for all our connections to our mobile devices itrCOs possibly a waste of time with our current devices and Wi-Fi system.

We currently use the BT Home Wi-Fi mesh system (the one with the round
disks) https://www.bt.com/help/user-guides/broadband-and-wi-fi-devices/wi-fi-and-home-networking/wi-fi-home-hotspots/bt-whole-home-wi-fi

WerCOve had it for years and itrCOs been great but I dare say tech has moved on
since then. What IrCOm not sure about is whether upgrading our mesh system will significantly improve speed to our mobile devices (ipads, iPhone 14
and Pixel 10a android phone) given their limitations.

So, two questions really. Is it worth upgrading our mesh system based on
our present mobile devices and if so, any recommendations for systems? I think we really need 4 rCLnodesrCY for our house. Currently managing with three
but more would be better.

We use Linksys Velop mesh nodes. By trial and error we found that we
needed six nodes to give wifi coverage (especially 5 GHz)to all parts of
the house; most of the child nodes communicate by one hop from the
parent node (the one that is connected to the router by Ethernet) but a
couple piggy-back off another child node.

The big problem is that the backhaul (node-to-node) comms uses 5 GHz
which has a fairly short range but we also need 2.4 GHz turned on a)
because some internet-of-things devices only talk 2.4, b) because the
range of 5 GHz from device to nearest node sometimes needs 2.4.

The problem... the nodes have to be placed close enough together that
they can all see the parent node (though a double-glazed window and
across about 10 m of patio and through another double glazed window to
the child node) but this is so close that their 2.4 GHz networks clash
(there are only three 2.4 GHz channels 1, 6, 11 which don't overlap) so
it takes ages for all the nodes to connect to the parent (with a lot of auto-negotiating of vacant channels, I imagine!) before all the nodes
are connected. It's fine if I turn on the nodes by hand, one at a time
(parent first, then closest child, then next closet etc) but if they all
get turned on simultaneously after a power cut, we often find that one
of more nodes sits there indefinitely, never able to connect.

Of course we could connect the nodes by Ethernet, and dispense with
backhaul over 5 GHz, but that means running lots of cables all over the
house, the very reason for having wifi in the first place.


Having just got 1000/1000 FTTP (from Quickline), we are now finding that
the mesh network is the limiting factor for wifi-connected devices.
Ookla Speedtest from a laptop connected by wifi manages about 250 (D) /
50 (U) which is still a lot faster than the 30/9 that we were getting
with a VDSL FTTP internet link, but it's a lot slower than the 950/950
that we get with a PC that is connected by Ethernet.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

On 24/09/2026 12:05, NY wrote:

On 12/09/2026 20:09, Tim+ wrote:

[snip]

We use Linksys Velop mesh nodes. By trial and error we found that we
needed six nodes to give wifi coverage (especially 5 GHz)to all parts of
the house; most of the child nodes communicate by one hop from the
parent node (the one that is connected to the router by Ethernet) but a couple piggy-back off another child node.

The big problem is that the backhaul (node-to-node) comms uses 5 GHz
which has a fairly short range but we also need 2.4 GHz turned on a)
because some internet-of-things devices only talk 2.4, b) because the
range of 5 GHz from device to nearest node sometimes needs 2.4.

The problem... the nodes have to be placed close enough together that
they can all see the parent node (though a double-glazed window and
across about 10 m of patio and through another double glazed window to
the child node) but this is so close that their 2.4 GHz networks clash (there are only three 2.4 GHz channels 1, 6, 11 which don't overlap) so
it takes ages for all the nodes to connect to the parent (with a lot of auto-negotiating of vacant channels, I imagine!) before all the nodes
are connected. It's fine if I turn on the nodes by hand, one at a time (parent first, then closest child, then next closet etc) but if they all
get turned on simultaneously after a power cut, we often find that one
of more nodes sits there indefinitely, never able to connect.

Of course we could connect the nodes by Ethernet, and dispense with
backhaul over 5 GHz, but that means running lots of cables all over the house, the very reason for having wifi in the first place.

Having just got 1000/1000 FTTP (from Quickline), we are now finding that
the mesh network is the limiting factor for wifi-connected devices.
Ookla Speedtest from a laptop connected by wifi manages about 250 (D) /
50 (U) which is still a lot faster than the 30/9 that we were getting
with a VDSL FTTP internet link, but it's a lot slower than the 950/950
that we get with a PC that is connected by Ethernet.

You might like to try powerline backhaul for the more problematic nodes,
which could help with positioning of the Velops.

It can be much better than you might imagine. Second hand units can be
had from various sources too. If it doesn't work out you could sell-on
the modems.

The passthrough versions are helpful if you are short of spare 13A
sockets.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

NY wrote:

We use Linksys Velop mesh nodes.

A friend with GigaClear as their ISP has a set of those, they haven't
exactly been trouble-free, weirdly you can't configure them like any
normal router/access point, by pointing a web browser to the devices IP address, you have to use a mobile App that detects them and puts them
into different discover or pairing modes indicated with coloured LEDs.

They seem to have GigaClear specific firmware on them, and the ISP can
reset and re-configure them remotely (probably through some central
dashboard) and that's been necessary at least twice.

Very frustrating devices ...



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

Mark wrote:

[snip]

Of course we could connect the nodes by Ethernet, and dispense with
backhaul over 5 GHz, but that means running lots of cables all over
the house, the very reason for having wifi in the first place.

Ethernet is the only sensible solution. Do it properly when you next redecorate.

You might like to try powerline backhaul for the more problematic nodes,

In my experience powerline devices always fail in about a couple of years.
--
Graham J
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

On 25/09/2026 09:24, Graham J wrote:

Mark wrote:

[snip]

Of course we could connect the nodes by Ethernet, and dispense with
backhaul over 5 GHz, but that means running lots of cables all over
the house, the very reason for having wifi in the first place.

Ethernet is the only sensible solution.-a Do it properly when you next redecorate.

...or re-do flooring.

You might like to try powerline backhaul for the more problematic nodes,

In my experience powerline devices always fail in about a couple of years.

My paired devices are still going strong after four.

TP-link offer a two year warranty, maybe worth taking the risk. They are inexpensive.

The other possibility is to use an overlay extender network for IoT
running on 2.4 GHz backhaul for the longer runs. The method I mentioned elsewhere in this thread using DD-WRT repeaters would work. Throughput
will be lower but that may not matter.



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

Mark <codvimyst@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

You might like to try powerline backhaul for the more problematic nodes, which could help with positioning of the Velops.

It can be much better than you might imagine. Second hand units can be
had from various sources too. If it doesn't work out you could sell-on
the modems.

I've mostly heard numbers from powerline of the order of 100Mbps. I know the endpoints theoretically can do gigabit, but is that achievable in reality?
On the actual messy wiring people have?

If wifi can't keep up with gigabit, I'm not sure powerline is going to be
much improvement.

Theo
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

On 26/09/2026 15:42, Theo wrote:

Mark <codvimyst@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

You might like to try powerline backhaul for the more problematic nodes,
which could help with positioning of the Velops.

It can be much better than you might imagine. Second hand units can be
had from various sources too. If it doesn't work out you could sell-on
the modems.

I've mostly heard numbers from powerline of the order of 100Mbps. I know the endpoints theoretically can do gigabit, but is that achievable in reality?
On the actual messy wiring people have?

If wifi can't keep up with gigabit, I'm not sure powerline is going to be much improvement.

I'd be the first to say it cannot really do gigabit throughput,
100-200Mbps is indeed about the best you'd expect - however that's not
really my point.

It's more about using powerline to make a reasonably reliable hybrid
home network to assist with edge-case repeater positioning, especially
for IoT use-cases where absolute speed and the odd bit of packet loss
may not matter much, if at all. For example, I don't see much practical difference between Virgin's M250 and M125 BB on my phone between the two locations where that's used. My washing machine and Internet radio
couldn't care two hoots.

Aside from bulk data transfer e.g. backup to/from the cloud, 900Mbps can
be overkill for some real-life applications. So I'm suggesting that
careful planning and positioning by including powerline might get @NY reasonably close to what they actually need and also avoiding some of
the consequential issues for 2.4GHz wi-fi that they have encountered
while still having good throughput for e.g. PC/workstation connectivity.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

On 26/09/2026 17:00, NY wrote:

On 26/09/2026 15:42, Theo wrote:

Mark <codvimyst@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

You might like to try powerline backhaul for the more problematic nodes, >>> which could help with positioning of the Velops.

It can be much better than you might imagine. Second hand units can be
had from various sources too. If it doesn't work out you could sell-on
the modems.

I've mostly heard numbers from powerline of the order of 100Mbps. I
know the
endpoints theoretically can do gigabit, but is that achievable in
reality?
On the actual messy wiring people have?

Powerline depends *critically* on the state of the mains wiring. I have found that when I can get 100 Mbps between two mains sockets in the same two-socket faceplate, the speed drops to 25 between a socket in one faceplate and a socket in a faceplate a few metres away *on the same
ring main*. And when you cross ring-mains, there is another reduction.

Our house has two consumer units ("fuse boxes") which are connected to
the same meter and mains phase. I get about 0.5 Mbps between two sockets
in separate consumer units, even though they are physically within a
metre or so of each other.

That is why we went for Velops - to use 5 GHz wifi as the backhaul to
the router.

And then you have the problem that the Velops need to be sited close
enough to each other to be able to communicate with each other or with
the central "parent node" that is connected to the router by Ethernet,
and to give 5 GHz (ie fast) coverage in each other rooms that needs it.
But that means that the nodes are so close together that all their 2.4
GHz access points interfere with each other. And 2.4 is needed a) to
give fringe coverage without needing yet more Velops, b) to talk to
Internet of Things devices (eg Blink camera alarms) which don't speak 5
GHz. If it wasn't for (b), I'd disable 2.4 on the Velop network.

And I've disabled both wifi bands on the router itself, because it is
close enough to the parent node that it wouldn't give extra coverage,
and there's not point in the router's own 2.4 adding to the babble on
the 2.4 band.

If the nodes are turned on in a logical order (parent, followed by
closest children, followed by more distant children) they all eventually manage to auto negotiate use of the 2.4 band. The problem comes if there
is a power cut because then all five of them turn on simultaneously and
take longer to negotiate - and some never manage it. We have our Hive heating hub connected by Ethernet to one of the child nodes (so it is
close enough to the thermostats and the CH controller), and once we
couldn't turn the heating back on (after leaving it in holiday mode) as
we set off home after a holiday in winter. It's always nice to get home
to a warm house that has started to heat up a few hours before we
arrive, but we didn't manage it that time. There had been a power cut
while we were away, and the crucial node had not managed to negotiate
access to the parent node.

Living in an L-shaped house with very thick walls (some of them date
back to 1800s) has its disadvantages...

Having put wi-fi into a 6-bed student house with solid walls for
daughter and friends, I can sympathise. It needed five repeaters.

It's good that you've tried powerline, sometimes it works out, other
times not. On the same ring main I get over 100Mbps. Between our two
rings and on the garage spur it's more like 30-70.

Does the native Velops 2.4Ghz contribute to the backhaul mesh? If it
does and that is the aspect that won't "settle", could you instead hang
one or more cheap 'independent' Wi-Fi APs, running 2.4GHz for IoT, off a suitable node(s)?



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

-------- Original Message --------
From: Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay>
Sent: Saturday, 12 September 2026 at 8:09 pm
Subject: Mesh wifi upgrade?

WerCOve upgraded our Zen internet to 900mbps but as we use Wi-Fi for all our connections to our mobile devices itrCOs possibly a waste of time with our current devices and Wi-Fi system.

We currently use the BT Home Wi-Fi mesh system (the one with the round
disks) https://www.bt.com/help/user-guides/broadband-and-wi-fi-devices/wi-fi-and-home-networking/wi-fi-home-hotspots/bt-whole-home-wi-fi

WerCOve had it for years and itrCOs been great but I dare say tech has moved on
since then. What IrCOm not sure about is whether upgrading our mesh system will significantly improve speed to our mobile devices (ipads, iPhone 14
and Pixel 10a android phone) given their limitations.

So, two questions really. Is it worth upgrading our mesh system based on
our present mobile devices and if so, any recommendations for systems? I think we really need 4 rCLnodesrCY for our house. Currently managing with three
but more would be better.

Tim

I've had four BT Whole Home Wifi discs in use for the past 5 years or so
- two of them with Ethernet backhaul and the other two wireless only.
With a FTTP installation of 500Mb/s I get wifi speeds up to that level
at least from the wired discs, so I'm still happy with the mesh setup. However, I don't think the BT Whole Home can deliver anything faster
than that, so if you have a 900Mb/s set-up you may need something else
to give you commensurate wifi speeds.
--
Wilf
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

On 26/09/2026 15:42, Theo wrote:

Mark <codvimyst@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

You might like to try powerline backhaul for the more problematic nodes,
which could help with positioning of the Velops.

It can be much better than you might imagine. Second hand units can be
had from various sources too. If it doesn't work out you could sell-on
the modems.

I've mostly heard numbers from powerline of the order of 100Mbps. I know the endpoints theoretically can do gigabit, but is that achievable in reality?
On the actual messy wiring people have?

Powerline depends *critically* on the state of the mains wiring. I have
found that when I can get 100 Mbps between two mains sockets in the same two-socket faceplate, the speed drops to 25 between a socket in one
faceplate and a socket in a faceplate a few metres away *on the same
ring main*. And when you cross ring-mains, there is another reduction.

Our house has two consumer units ("fuse boxes") which are connected to
the same meter and mains phase. I get about 0.5 Mbps between two sockets
in separate consumer units, even though they are physically within a
metre or so of each other.

That is why we went for Velops - to use 5 GHz wifi as the backhaul to
the router.

And then you have the problem that the Velops need to be sited close
enough to each other to be able to communicate with each other or with
the central "parent node" that is connected to the router by Ethernet,
and to give 5 GHz (ie fast) coverage in each other rooms that needs it.
But that means that the nodes are so close together that all their 2.4
GHz access points interfere with each other. And 2.4 is needed a) to
give fringe coverage without needing yet more Velops, b) to talk to
Internet of Things devices (eg Blink camera alarms) which don't speak 5
GHz. If it wasn't for (b), I'd disable 2.4 on the Velop network.

And I've disabled both wifi bands on the router itself, because it is
close enough to the parent node that it wouldn't give extra coverage,
and there's not point in the router's own 2.4 adding to the babble on
the 2.4 band.

If the nodes are turned on in a logical order (parent, followed by
closest children, followed by more distant children) they all eventually manage to auto negotiate use of the 2.4 band. The problem comes if there
is a power cut because then all five of them turn on simultaneously and
take longer to negotiate - and some never manage it. We have our Hive
heating hub connected by Ethernet to one of the child nodes (so it is
close enough to the thermostats and the CH controller), and once we
couldn't turn the heating back on (after leaving it in holiday mode) as
we set off home after a holiday in winter. It's always nice to get home
to a warm house that has started to heat up a few hours before we
arrive, but we didn't manage it that time. There had been a power cut
while we were away, and the crucial node had not managed to negotiate
access to the parent node.

Living in an L-shaped house with very thick walls (some of them date
back to 1800s) has its disadvantages...
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2