• Win 10 PC cannot connect to router's wifi - but can connect to mobile phone tethered network

    From NY@me@privacy.net to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon Jul 20 15:08:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    A Win 10 PC with a PCI wifi card cannot connect to a router's wifi. It
    shows as "Secured" (so it has passed the WPA authentication) but DHCP is
    not obtaining an IP address. Even setting a static IP in the correct
    DHCP range, with the router's IP as gateway and DNS doesn't work: I
    cannot ping the router.

    The PC and card can connect to a wifi network that my phone shares as tethering from its mobile phone connection.

    The mobile phone in non-tethering mode can connect to the router.

    What could be the difference?

    Unfortunately although the PC has an Ethernet port, Windows is not
    seeing it as a device (it's not even showing as present but
    disabled/can't start etc) and the link light on the router doesn't show
    a physical connection.

    I'm about to try a different wi-fi device. I was going to try a USB
    Ethernet adaptor, but the only one I have has a USB-C plug, and I don't
    have a female USB-C to male USB-A adaptor :-(

    The router is a Zyxel and it uses both 2.4 and 5 GHz bands.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon Jul 20 15:17:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
    A Win 10 PC with a PCI wifi card cannot connect to a router's wifi. It
    shows as "Secured" (so it has passed the WPA authentication) but DHCP is
    not obtaining an IP address. Even setting a static IP in the correct
    DHCP range, with the router's IP as gateway and DNS doesn't work: I
    cannot ping the router.

    Is the wifi network WPA3 only and the wifi card can only do WPA2, or
    something like that? What model is the card?

    I'm not sure that 'Secured' means WPA has completed successfully, did you confirm that?

    It may be useful to run Wireshark or another packet capture tool on the
    wifi interface to see if any traffic is flowing.

    The PC and card can connect to a wifi network that my phone shares as tethering from its mobile phone connection.

    Perhaps that is WPA2+WPA3?

    Unfortunately although the PC has an Ethernet port, Windows is not
    seeing it as a device (it's not even showing as present but
    disabled/can't start etc) and the link light on the router doesn't show
    a physical connection.

    Have a look in BIOS and see if it's disabled.

    Does the ethernet show in Device Manager? Perhaps you need a driver for it?

    (if you can't connect then Windows Update can't fetch drivers, so you may
    need to sneakernet it on a USB stick)

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From NY@me@privacy.invalid to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon Jul 20 15:31:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband



    "Theo" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message news:qmr*9T4LA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
    NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
    A Win 10 PC with a PCI wifi card cannot connect to a router's wifi. It
    shows as "Secured" (so it has passed the WPA authentication) but DHCP is
    not obtaining an IP address. Even setting a static IP in the correct
    DHCP range, with the router's IP as gateway and DNS doesn't work: I
    cannot ping the router.

    Is the wifi network WPA3 only and the wifi card can only do WPA2, or something like that? What model is the card?

    Ah, I wonder if that's it. I'll find out the make/model of card.

    I'm not sure that 'Secured' means WPA has completed successfully, did you confirm that?

    Windows shows various stats for the adaptor, and one is a network speed.
    Maybe you can get a valid speed and what *appears* to be a connection (ie
    not being repeatedly asked for the WPA key) even when the network is WPA3
    and the card can only do WPA2.

    It may be useful to run Wireshark or another packet capture tool on the
    wifi interface to see if any traffic is flowing.

    I couldn't see any traffic on the network originating from the adaptor's
    MAC, when I ran Wireshark on another PC that was connected to the network (either by wifi or Ethernet).

    The PC and card can connect to a wifi network that my phone shares as
    tethering from its mobile phone connection.

    Perhaps that is WPA2+WPA3?

    Maybe ;-)

    Unfortunately although the PC has an Ethernet port, Windows is not
    seeing it as a device (it's not even showing as present but
    disabled/can't start etc) and the link light on the router doesn't show
    a physical connection.

    Have a look in BIOS and see if it's disabled.

    Does the ethernet show in Device Manager? Perhaps you need a driver for
    it?

    No, it's not showing in Device Manager. I meant to say that but I forgot.

    I'll have a look in the BIOS.




    The history of the PC is that it used to work, but then the mobo stopped turning on the PSU (ie the soft power switch didn't send PS_ON low on the
    PSU connector). Doing this manually turned the PSU on, and having done it once, the soft power switch then works fine as long as the PSU is not left without mains overnight (a break of a few hours is fine).

    The PC had an Ethernet cable plugged into it. I wonder if that is how the PC was connected to the router before (the owner of the PC wouldn't know). I tended to assume (perhaps wrongly) that the Ethernet had never worked and
    was a red herring, and the the connection had been via the wifi card.

    I will check the BIOS and see if the Ethernet port is listed and disabled/fails self-test. I will also try with a different wifi adaptor - a fairly new USB/wifi dongle which may support WPA3.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon Jul 20 15:45:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Theo wrote:

    I'm not sure that 'Secured' means WPA has completed successfully, did you confirm that?

    My Win11 laptop shows "connected, secured" so I don't think "secured"
    implies connected, unless Windows can tell you what wep/wpa2/wpa3
    security setting, and what speed it's connected at, I don't think you
    are connected ...


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From NY@me@privacy.net to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon Jul 20 16:39:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 20/07/2026 15:45, Andy Burns wrote:
    Theo wrote:

    I'm not sure that 'Secured' means WPA has completed successfully, did you
    confirm that?

    My Win11 laptop shows "connected, secured" so I don't think "secured" implies connected, unless Windows can tell you what wep/wpa2/wpa3
    security setting, and what speed it's connected at, I don't think you
    are connected ...

    It was showing a connection speed even though DHCP or static IP didn't
    work and I couldn't see any traffic from the adaptor's MAC.

    Anyway I tried with a USB wifi adaptor and that worked perfectly. So
    everyone is happy.

    I do wonder whether wifi with the old card has never worked and
    previously the connection was by Ethernet - until the Ethernet adaptor vanished from Windows. It shows up in the BIOS and appears to have
    "working" status there. But Windows cannot see it in Device Manager.

    One of life's little mysteries. The main thing is that the PC is now
    connected to the internet again.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clive Page@usenet@page2.eu to uk.telecom.broadband on Tue Jul 21 11:01:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 20/07/2026 16:39, NY wrote:
    On 20/07/2026 15:45, Andy Burns wrote:
    Theo wrote:

    I'm not sure that 'Secured' means WPA has completed successfully, did
    you
    confirm that?

    My Win11 laptop shows "connected, secured" so I don't think "secured"
    implies connected, unless Windows can tell you what wep/wpa2/wpa3
    security setting, and what speed it's connected at, I don't think you
    are connected ...

    It was showing a connection speed even though DHCP or static IP didn't
    work and I couldn't see any traffic from the adaptor's MAC.

    Anyway I tried with a USB wifi adaptor and that worked perfectly. So everyone is happy.

    I do wonder whether wifi with the old card has never worked and
    previously the connection was by Ethernet - until the Ethernet adaptor vanished from Windows. It shows up in the BIOS and appears to have
    "working" status there. But Windows cannot see it in Device Manager.

    One of life's little mysteries. The main thing is that the PC is now connected to the internet again.


    I have an old Win10 laptop which was working well via wifi to my old
    router, then I was forced to migrate from Plusnet to EE and the new
    router did not see it on the network. It turns out that the new router
    only works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called Wifi6. The
    laptop would work with a an Ethernet cable but I wanted a solution that
    would allow the laptop to be moved around. I solved it by buying a USB
    dongle which supported Wifi6. That may be the same problem you had.
    --
    Clive Page

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Tue Jul 21 11:32:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband


    Clive Page wrote:

    I have an old Win10 laptop which was working well via wifi to my old
    router, then I was forced to migrate from Plusnet to EE and the new
    router did not see it on the network.-a It turns out that the new router only works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called Wifi6.

    aka 802.11ax, your previous router probably being 802.11n, or 802.11ac

    The laptop would work with a an Ethernet cable but I wanted a
    solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around. I solved
    it by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Tue Jul 21 11:40:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Clive Page wrote:

    I wanted a solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around.-a I solved it by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.

    When the inevitable snapping of the dongle in the USB port by small
    child or feline occurs, you might want to look for a suitable (M.2 or miniPCIe) internal wifi card.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From MikeS@MikeS@fred.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Tue Jul 21 13:15:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 21/07/2026 11:01, Clive Page wrote:
    On 20/07/2026 16:39, NY wrote:
    On 20/07/2026 15:45, Andy Burns wrote:
    Theo wrote:

    I'm not sure that 'Secured' means WPA has completed successfully,
    did you
    confirm that?

    My Win11 laptop shows "connected, secured" so I don't think "secured"
    implies connected, unless Windows can tell you what wep/wpa2/wpa3
    security setting, and what speed it's connected at, I don't think you
    are connected ...

    It was showing a connection speed even though DHCP or static IP didn't
    work and I couldn't see any traffic from the adaptor's MAC.

    Anyway I tried with a USB wifi adaptor and that worked perfectly. So
    everyone is happy.

    I do wonder whether wifi with the old card has never worked and
    previously the connection was by Ethernet - until the Ethernet adaptor
    vanished from Windows. It shows up in the BIOS and appears to have
    "working" status there. But Windows cannot see it in Device Manager.

    One of life's little mysteries. The main thing is that the PC is now
    connected to the internet again.


    I have an old Win10 laptop which was working well via wifi to my old
    router, then I was forced to migrate from Plusnet to EE and the new
    router did not see it on the network.-a It turns out that *the new router only works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called Wifi6*.-a The laptop would work with a an Ethernet cable but I wanted a solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around.-a I solved it by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.-a That may be the same problem you had.


    That claim about WiFi6 only sounds very strange.
    Every version of WiFi is backward compatible with the earlier versions.
    In any case the vast majority of in service devices which EE customers
    want to connect to the router will not have WiFi6.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Woody@harrogate3@ntlworld.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Tue Jul 21 18:08:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On Tue 21/07/2026 13:15, MikeS wrote:
    On 21/07/2026 11:01, Clive Page wrote:
    On 20/07/2026 16:39, NY wrote:
    On 20/07/2026 15:45, Andy Burns wrote:
    Theo wrote:

    I'm not sure that 'Secured' means WPA has completed successfully,
    did you
    confirm that?

    My Win11 laptop shows "connected, secured" so I don't think
    "secured" implies connected, unless Windows can tell you what wep/
    wpa2/wpa3 security setting, and what speed it's connected at, I
    don't think you are connected ...

    It was showing a connection speed even though DHCP or static IP
    didn't work and I couldn't see any traffic from the adaptor's MAC.

    Anyway I tried with a USB wifi adaptor and that worked perfectly. So
    everyone is happy.

    I do wonder whether wifi with the old card has never worked and
    previously the connection was by Ethernet - until the Ethernet
    adaptor vanished from Windows. It shows up in the BIOS and appears to
    have "working" status there. But Windows cannot see it in Device
    Manager.

    One of life's little mysteries. The main thing is that the PC is now
    connected to the internet again.


    I have an old Win10 laptop which was working well via wifi to my old
    router, then I was forced to migrate from Plusnet to EE and the new
    router did not see it on the network.-a It turns out that *the new
    router only works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called
    Wifi6*.-a The laptop would work with a an Ethernet cable but I wanted a
    solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around.-a I solved it
    by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.-a That may be the same
    problem you had.


    That claim about WiFi6 only sounds very strange.
    Every version of WiFi is backward compatible with the earlier versions.
    In any case the vast majority of in service devices which EE customers
    want to connect to the router will not have WiFi6.

    I was going to say that!

    More likely the router has been set to work WiFi6 only and earlier
    versions are disabled?

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Java Jive@java@evij.com.invalid to uk.telecom.broadband on Tue Jul 21 18:48:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 2026-07-21 11:01, Clive Page wrote:

    I have an old Win10 laptop which was working well via wifi to my old
    router, then I was forced to migrate from Plusnet to EE and the new
    router did not see it on the network.-a It turns out that the new router only works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called Wifi6.-a The
    laptop would work with a an Ethernet cable but I wanted a solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around.-a I solved it by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.-a That may be the same problem you had.

    I'm very surprised that there was no backwards compatibility. I have a BTHH5a running OpenWRT, and it will connect seamlessly to hardware
    running 802.11g, n, or ac.
    --

    Fake news kills!

    I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: www.macfh.co.uk

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Tue Jul 21 20:57:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
    On Tue 21/07/2026 13:15, MikeS wrote:
    On 21/07/2026 11:01, Clive Page wrote:
    On 20/07/2026 16:39, NY wrote:
    On 20/07/2026 15:45, Andy Burns wrote:

    That claim about WiFi6 only sounds very strange.
    Every version of WiFi is backward compatible with the earlier versions.
    In any case the vast majority of in service devices which EE customers want to connect to the router will not have WiFi6.

    I was going to say that!

    More likely the router has been set to work WiFi6 only and earlier
    versions are disabled?

    I doubt it... wifi standards are a bundle of things, there is no knob you
    turn to 4... 5... 6.

    My suspicion is the new router is WPA3 only, and the laptop wifi card only supports WPA2. Or equivalently WPA2 and WPA (1). Or, perhaps more likely,
    the router does WPA3+WPA2 and the laptop is WPA. The compatibility modes
    only support two protocols, you can't do WPA3+WPA2+WPA.

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clive Page@usenet@page2.eu to uk.telecom.broadband on Tue Jul 21 22:39:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 21/07/2026 11:40, Andy Burns wrote:
    Clive Page wrote:

    I wanted a solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around.-a I
    solved it by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.

    When the inevitable snapping of the dongle in the USB port by small
    child or feline occurs, you might want to look for a suitable (M.2 or miniPCIe) internal wifi card.

    Well this dongle is very small and inconspicuous, just projecting
    [pauses to fetch ruler] less than 1 cm from the side of the laptop. And fortunately we are currently free of small children or felines. Of
    course accidents do happen, but the dongle seems good enough at present.
    --
    Clive Page

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clive Page@usenet@page2.eu to uk.telecom.broadband on Tue Jul 21 22:42:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 21/07/2026 18:48, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-21 11:01, Clive Page wrote:

    I have an old Win10 laptop which was working well via wifi to my old
    router, then I was forced to migrate from Plusnet to EE and the new
    router did not see it on the network.-a It turns out that the new
    router only works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called
    Wifi6.-a The laptop would work with a an Ethernet cable but I wanted a
    solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around.-a I solved it
    by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.-a That may be the same
    problem you had.

    I'm very surprised that there was no backwards compatibility.-a-a I have a BTHH5a running OpenWRT, and it will connect seamlessly to hardware
    running 802.11g, n, or ac.


    I was surprised too that EE made no attempt, or at least no successful attempt, to provide backwards compatibility. But the EE user forums
    have quite a number of postings from people like me who found that older devices of various sorts would not connect to the EE router.
    --
    Clive Page

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tweed@usenet.tweed@gmail.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Wed Jul 22 05:42:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
    On 21/07/2026 18:48, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-21 11:01, Clive Page wrote:

    I have an old Win10 laptop which was working well via wifi to my old
    router, then I was forced to migrate from Plusnet to EE and the new
    router did not see it on the network.-a It turns out that the new
    router only works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called
    Wifi6.-a The laptop would work with a an Ethernet cable but I wanted a
    solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around.-a I solved it
    by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.-a That may be the same
    problem you had.

    I'm very surprised that there was no backwards compatibility.-a-a I have a >> BTHH5a running OpenWRT, and it will connect seamlessly to hardware
    running 802.11g, n, or ac.


    I was surprised too that EE made no attempt, or at least no successful attempt, to provide backwards compatibility. But the EE user forums
    have quite a number of postings from people like me who found that older devices of various sorts would not connect to the EE router.



    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some manufacturer, and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Woody@harrogate3@ntlworld.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Wed Jul 22 07:26:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On Wed 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:
    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
    On 21/07/2026 18:48, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-21 11:01, Clive Page wrote:

    I have an old Win10 laptop which was working well via wifi to my old
    router, then I was forced to migrate from Plusnet to EE and the new
    router did not see it on the network.-a It turns out that the new
    router only works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called
    Wifi6.-a The laptop would work with a an Ethernet cable but I wanted a >>>> solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around.-a I solved it >>>> by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.-a That may be the same
    problem you had.

    I'm very surprised that there was no backwards compatibility.-a-a I have a >>> BTHH5a running OpenWRT, and it will connect seamlessly to hardware
    running 802.11g, n, or ac.


    I was surprised too that EE made no attempt, or at least no successful
    attempt, to provide backwards compatibility. But the EE user forums
    have quite a number of postings from people like me who found that older
    devices of various sorts would not connect to the EE router.



    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some manufacturer, and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.


    Yes but, if you are a major ISP as BT/EE is, you will likely be buying
    huge quantities of routers - heavens, they even have them logo printed -
    which gives them enormous power to tell the supplier what they want the
    beast to do. (Remember BT Labs still exist and likely have their fingers
    in it!)

    I am cynical enough to suspect that this is a deliberate action to try
    to force users to update their associated equipments. (Much the way that
    M$ have tried to do with W11 - and so far seem to have failed - despite
    what they would like us to believe.)


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tweed@usenet.tweed@gmail.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Wed Jul 22 06:39:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
    On Wed 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:
    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
    On 21/07/2026 18:48, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-21 11:01, Clive Page wrote:

    I have an old Win10 laptop which was working well via wifi to my old >>>>> router, then I was forced to migrate from Plusnet to EE and the new
    router did not see it on the network.-a It turns out that the new
    router only works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called
    Wifi6.-a The laptop would work with a an Ethernet cable but I wanted a >>>>> solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around.-a I solved it >>>>> by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.-a That may be the same >>>>> problem you had.

    I'm very surprised that there was no backwards compatibility.-a-a I have a >>>> BTHH5a running OpenWRT, and it will connect seamlessly to hardware
    running 802.11g, n, or ac.


    I was surprised too that EE made no attempt, or at least no successful
    attempt, to provide backwards compatibility. But the EE user forums
    have quite a number of postings from people like me who found that older >>> devices of various sorts would not connect to the EE router.



    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some manufacturer, >> and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.


    Yes but, if you are a major ISP as BT/EE is, you will likely be buying
    huge quantities of routers - heavens, they even have them logo printed - which gives them enormous power to tell the supplier what they want the beast to do. (Remember BT Labs still exist and likely have their fingers
    in it!)

    I am cynical enough to suspect that this is a deliberate action to try
    to force users to update their associated equipments. (Much the way that
    M$ have tried to do with W11 - and so far seem to have failed - despite
    what they would like us to believe.)


    WhatrCOs in it for EE to force equipment upgrades? ItrCOs much more likely that the new routers were never tested against old equipment. Probably also the procurement specifications were focussed on the shiny new protocols.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From MikeS@MikeS@fred.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Wed Jul 22 10:32:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 22/07/2026 07:39, Tweed wrote:
    Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
    On Wed 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:
    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
    On 21/07/2026 18:48, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-21 11:01, Clive Page wrote:

    I have an old Win10 laptop which was working well via wifi to my old >>>>>> router, then I was forced to migrate from Plusnet to EE and the new >>>>>> router did not see it on the network.-a It turns out that the new
    router only works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called
    Wifi6.-a The laptop would work with a an Ethernet cable but I wanted a >>>>>> solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around.-a I solved it >>>>>> by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.-a That may be the same >>>>>> problem you had.

    I'm very surprised that there was no backwards compatibility.-a-a I have a
    BTHH5a running OpenWRT, and it will connect seamlessly to hardware
    running 802.11g, n, or ac.


    I was surprised too that EE made no attempt, or at least no successful >>>> attempt, to provide backwards compatibility. But the EE user forums
    have quite a number of postings from people like me who found that older >>>> devices of various sorts would not connect to the EE router.



    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.


    Yes but, if you are a major ISP as BT/EE is, you will likely be buying
    huge quantities of routers - heavens, they even have them logo printed -
    which gives them enormous power to tell the supplier what they want the
    beast to do. (Remember BT Labs still exist and likely have their fingers
    in it!)

    I am cynical enough to suspect that this is a deliberate action to try
    to force users to update their associated equipments. (Much the way that
    M$ have tried to do with W11 - and so far seem to have failed - despite
    what they would like us to believe.)


    WhatrCOs in it for EE to force equipment upgrades? ItrCOs much more likely that
    the new routers were never tested against old equipment. Probably also the procurement specifications were focussed on the shiny new protocols.

    The claim about the EE router issue still seems unlikely.

    My line switches to digital tomorrow and BT have sent me a new router
    (with a telephone socket for Digital Voice). It works perfectly with all
    my devices including one 15 years old with only 2.4GHz WiFi.

    BT and EE devices are now interchangeable apart from logos. For example
    BT also gave me a free Digital Voice adapter branded EE.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Java Jive@java@evij.com.invalid to uk.telecom.broadband on Wed Jul 22 12:33:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 2026-07-22 10:32, MikeS wrote:
    On 22/07/2026 07:39, Tweed wrote:
    Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
    On Wed 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:
    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
    On 21/07/2026 18:48, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-21 11:01, Clive Page wrote:

    I have an old Win10 laptop which was working well via wifi to my old >>>>>>> router, then I was forced to migrate from Plusnet to EE and the new >>>>>>> router did not see it on the network.-a It turns out that the new >>>>>>> router only works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called
    Wifi6.-a The laptop would work with a an Ethernet cable but I
    wanted a
    solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around.-a I
    solved it
    by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.-a That may be the same >>>>>>> problem you had.

    I'm very surprised that there was no backwards compatibility.-a-a I >>>>>> have a
    BTHH5a running OpenWRT, and it will connect seamlessly to hardware >>>>>> running 802.11g, n, or ac.


    I was surprised too that EE made no attempt, or at least no successful >>>>> attempt, to provide backwards compatibility.-a-a But the EE user forums >>>>> have quite a number of postings from people like me who found that
    older
    devices of various sorts would not connect to the EE router.



    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some
    manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.


    Yes but, if you are a major ISP as BT/EE is, you will likely be buying
    huge quantities of routers - heavens, they even have them logo printed - >>> which gives them enormous power to tell the supplier what they want the
    beast to do. (Remember BT Labs still exist and likely have their fingers >>> in it!)

    I am cynical enough to suspect that this is a deliberate action to try
    to force users to update their associated equipments. (Much the way that >>> M$ have tried to do with W11 - and so far seem to have failed - despite
    what they would like us to believe.)


    WhatrCOs in it for EE to force equipment upgrades? ItrCOs much more likely >> that
    the new routers were never tested against old equipment. Probably also
    the
    procurement specifications were focussed on the shiny new protocols.

    The claim about the EE router issue still seems unlikely.

    My line switches to digital tomorrow and BT have sent me a new router
    (with a telephone socket for Digital Voice). It works perfectly with all
    my devices including one 15 years old with only 2.4GHz WiFi.

    BT and EE devices are now interchangeable apart from logos. For example
    BT also gave me a free Digital Voice adapter branded EE.

    Yes, and I suspect also that there may be something to Woody's point
    about failure to test properly, in this case against old equipment.

    Of course I can't really know because I haven't got one of these, but
    it's possible that a deep trawl through the settings by a knowledgeable
    person might throw up some configuration error that would be easy to fix.
    --

    Fake news kills!

    I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: www.macfh.co.uk

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From MikeS@MikeS@fred.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Wed Jul 22 13:44:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 22/07/2026 12:33, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-22 10:32, MikeS wrote:
    On 22/07/2026 07:39, Tweed wrote:
    Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
    On Wed 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:
    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
    On 21/07/2026 18:48, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-21 11:01, Clive Page wrote:

    I have an old Win10 laptop which was working well via wifi to my >>>>>>>> old
    router, then I was forced to migrate from Plusnet to EE and the new >>>>>>>> router did not see it on the network.-a It turns out that the new >>>>>>>> router only works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called >>>>>>>> Wifi6.-a The laptop would work with a an Ethernet cable but I >>>>>>>> wanted a
    solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around.-a I
    solved it
    by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.-a That may be the same >>>>>>>> problem you had.

    I'm very surprised that there was no backwards compatibility.-a-a I >>>>>>> have a
    BTHH5a running OpenWRT, and it will connect seamlessly to hardware >>>>>>> running 802.11g, n, or ac.


    I was surprised too that EE made no attempt, or at least no
    successful
    attempt, to provide backwards compatibility.-a-a But the EE user forums >>>>>> have quite a number of postings from people like me who found that >>>>>> older
    devices of various sorts would not connect to the EE router.



    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some
    manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.


    Yes but, if you are a major ISP as BT/EE is, you will likely be buying >>>> huge quantities of routers - heavens, they even have them logo
    printed -
    which gives them enormous power to tell the supplier what they want the >>>> beast to do. (Remember BT Labs still exist and likely have their
    fingers
    in it!)

    I am cynical enough to suspect that this is a deliberate action to try >>>> to force users to update their associated equipments. (Much the way
    that
    M$ have tried to do with W11 - and so far seem to have failed - despite >>>> what they would like us to believe.)


    WhatrCOs in it for EE to force equipment upgrades? ItrCOs much more
    likely that
    the new routers were never tested against old equipment. Probably
    also the
    procurement specifications were focussed on the shiny new protocols.

    The claim about the EE router issue still seems unlikely.

    My line switches to digital tomorrow and BT have sent me a new router
    (with a telephone socket for Digital Voice). It works perfectly with
    all my devices including one 15 years old with only 2.4GHz WiFi.

    BT and EE devices are now interchangeable apart from logos. For
    example BT also gave me a free Digital Voice adapter branded EE.

    Yes, and I suspect also that there may be something to Woody's point
    about failure to test properly, in this case against old equipment.

    Of course I can't really know because I haven't got one of these, but
    it's possible that a deep trawl through the settings by a knowledgeable person might throw up some configuration error that would be easy to fix.


    Anything is possible but probably more likely to have been user error.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clive Page@usenet@page2.eu to uk.telecom.broadband on Thu Jul 23 16:25:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:
    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
    On 21/07/2026 18:48, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-21 11:01, Clive Page wrote:

    I have an old Win10 laptop which was working well via wifi to my old
    router, then I was forced to migrate from Plusnet to EE and the new
    router did not see it on the network.-a It turns out that the new
    router only works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called
    Wifi6.-a The laptop would work with a an Ethernet cable but I wanted a >>>> solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around.-a I solved it >>>> by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.-a That may be the same
    problem you had.

    I'm very surprised that there was no backwards compatibility.-a-a I have a >>> BTHH5a running OpenWRT, and it will connect seamlessly to hardware
    running 802.11g, n, or ac.


    I was surprised too that EE made no attempt, or at least no successful
    attempt, to provide backwards compatibility. But the EE user forums
    have quite a number of postings from people like me who found that older
    devices of various sorts would not connect to the EE router.



    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some manufacturer, and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.

    Maybe, but you'd think that among the tests they use on new equipment is
    that it is compatible with the sort of stuff that the average customer
    has at home, and in many case that will include Win 10 laptops and
    similar devices, such as alarms and CCTV systems.
    --
    Clive Page

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tweed@usenet.tweed@gmail.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Thu Jul 23 16:48:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
    On 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:
    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
    On 21/07/2026 18:48, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-21 11:01, Clive Page wrote:

    I have an old Win10 laptop which was working well via wifi to my old >>>>> router, then I was forced to migrate from Plusnet to EE and the new
    router did not see it on the network.-a It turns out that the new
    router only works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called
    Wifi6.-a The laptop would work with a an Ethernet cable but I wanted a >>>>> solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around.-a I solved it >>>>> by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.-a That may be the same >>>>> problem you had.

    I'm very surprised that there was no backwards compatibility.-a-a I have a >>>> BTHH5a running OpenWRT, and it will connect seamlessly to hardware
    running 802.11g, n, or ac.


    I was surprised too that EE made no attempt, or at least no successful
    attempt, to provide backwards compatibility. But the EE user forums
    have quite a number of postings from people like me who found that older >>> devices of various sorts would not connect to the EE router.



    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some manufacturer, >> and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.

    Maybe, but you'd think that among the tests they use on new equipment is that it is compatible with the sort of stuff that the average customer
    has at home, and in many case that will include Win 10 laptops and
    similar devices, such as alarms and CCTV systems.


    Evidence points to the contraryrCa.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From MikeS@MikeS@fred.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Thu Jul 23 20:23:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 23/07/2026 17:48, Tweed wrote:
    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
    On 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:
    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
    On 21/07/2026 18:48, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-21 11:01, Clive Page wrote:

    I have an old Win10 laptop which was working well via wifi to my old >>>>>> router, then I was forced to migrate from Plusnet to EE and the new >>>>>> router did not see it on the network.-a It turns out that the new
    router only works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called
    Wifi6.-a The laptop would work with a an Ethernet cable but I wanted a >>>>>> solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around.-a I solved it >>>>>> by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.-a That may be the same >>>>>> problem you had.

    I'm very surprised that there was no backwards compatibility.-a-a I have a
    BTHH5a running OpenWRT, and it will connect seamlessly to hardware
    running 802.11g, n, or ac.


    I was surprised too that EE made no attempt, or at least no successful >>>> attempt, to provide backwards compatibility. But the EE user forums
    have quite a number of postings from people like me who found that older >>>> devices of various sorts would not connect to the EE router.



    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.

    Maybe, but you'd think that among the tests they use on new equipment is
    that it is compatible with the sort of stuff that the average customer
    has at home, and in many case that will include Win 10 laptops and
    similar devices, such as alarms and CCTV systems.


    Evidence points to the contraryrCa.

    What evidence?

    As far as I can see the debate about EE in this thread is based on one
    person guessing that an issue with his laptop was because his EE hub
    only connects with WiFi6 devices.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Java Jive@java@evij.com.invalid to uk.telecom.broadband on Thu Jul 23 23:56:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 2026-07-23 20:23, MikeS wrote:

    On 23/07/2026 17:48, Tweed wrote:

    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:

    On 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:

    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some
    manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.

    Maybe, but you'd think that among the tests they use on new equipment is >>> that it is compatible with the sort of stuff that the average customer
    has at home, and in many case that will include Win 10 laptops and
    similar devices, such as alarms and CCTV systems.

    Evidence points to the contraryrCa.

    What evidence?

    As far as I can see the debate about EE in this thread is based on one person guessing that an issue with his laptop was because his EE hub
    only connects with WiFi6 devices.

    Note that the OP of the thread was NY, but the OP for this subthread is
    Clive Page in his post of 2026/7/21 at 11:01 wherein he first describes
    the problem, and that in his reply to me of 2026/7/21 at 22:42 he stated:

    "[...] But the EE user forums have quite a number of postings from
    people like me who found that older devices of various sorts would not
    connect to the EE router."

    So it seems to me that it's rather more than one person and rather more
    than guessing, and even though he did not link to any of those online discussions, you don't have any reason to suppose he's so very badly
    mistaken or even lying, particularly when a simple search shows that
    he's speaking the truth, and even gives a possible fix:

    <https://www.google.com/search?q=old+devices+won%27t+connect+to+EE+router>

    "Step-by-Step Fixes

    1. Enable "Compatible WiFi" (Recommended)
    EE routers combine 2.4GHz and 5GHz into one network (smart band), which confuses older devices and smart home gear.

    [Step by step instructions follow at the link]

    2. Adjust Router Security Settings
    Newer EE routers (like the Smart Hub Plus) use highly advanced security standards like WPA3, which older phones, laptops, and printers cannot read.

    [Again, step by step instructions follow at the link]"
    --

    Fake news kills!

    I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: www.macfh.co.uk

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From MikeS@MikeS@fred.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri Jul 24 06:56:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 23/07/2026 23:56, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-23 20:23, MikeS wrote:

    On 23/07/2026 17:48, Tweed wrote:

    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:

    On 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:

    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some
    manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.

    Maybe, but you'd think that among the tests they use on new
    equipment is
    that it is compatible with the sort of stuff that the average customer >>>> has at home, and in many case that will include Win 10 laptops and
    similar devices, such as alarms and CCTV systems.

    Evidence points to the contraryrCa.

    What evidence?

    As far as I can see the debate about EE in this thread is based on one
    person guessing that an issue with his laptop was because his EE hub
    only connects with WiFi6 devices.

    Note that the OP of the thread was NY, but the OP for this subthread is Clive Page in his post of 2026/7/21 at 11:01 wherein he first describes
    the problem, and that in his reply to me of 2026/7/21 at 22:42 he stated:

    "[...] But the EE user forums have quite a number of postings from
    people like me who found that older devices of various sorts would not connect to the EE router."

    So it seems to me that it's rather more than one person and rather more
    than guessing, and even though he did not link to any of those online discussions, you don't have any reason to suppose he's so very badly mistaken or even lying, particularly when a simple search shows that
    he's speaking the truth, and even gives a possible fix:

    <https://www.google.com/search?q=old+devices+won%27t+connect+to+EE+router>

    "Step-by-Step Fixes

    1. Enable "Compatible WiFi" (Recommended)
    EE routers combine 2.4GHz and 5GHz into one network (smart band), which confuses older devices and smart home gear.

    [Step by step instructions follow at the link]

    2. Adjust Router Security Settings
    Newer EE routers (like the Smart Hub Plus) use highly advanced security standards like WPA3, which older phones, laptops, and printers cannot read.

    [Again, step by step instructions follow at the link]"

    Your search reveals that there has been a fix for the problem for at
    least 18 months: https://community.ee.co.uk/t5/Broadband-Landline/Smart-Hub-3-SH31b-Plus-DDNS-back-Older-WiFi-devices-wont-connect/td-p/1486903
    Not the same as the claim in this thread that it is impossible to ever
    use the hub with older devices.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tweed@usenet.tweed@gmail.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri Jul 24 06:32:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> wrote:
    On 23/07/2026 23:56, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-23 20:23, MikeS wrote:

    On 23/07/2026 17:48, Tweed wrote:

    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:

    On 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:

    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some
    manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.

    Maybe, but you'd think that among the tests they use on new
    equipment is
    that it is compatible with the sort of stuff that the average customer >>>>> has at home, and in many case that will include Win 10 laptops and
    similar devices, such as alarms and CCTV systems.

    Evidence points to the contraryrCa.

    What evidence?

    As far as I can see the debate about EE in this thread is based on one
    person guessing that an issue with his laptop was because his EE hub
    only connects with WiFi6 devices.

    Note that the OP of the thread was NY, but the OP for this subthread is
    Clive Page in his post of 2026/7/21 at 11:01 wherein he first describes
    the problem, and that in his reply to me of 2026/7/21 at 22:42 he stated:

    "[...] But the EE user forums have quite a number of postings from
    people like me who found that older devices of various sorts would not
    connect to the EE router."

    So it seems to me that it's rather more than one person and rather more
    than guessing, and even though he did not link to any of those online
    discussions, you don't have any reason to suppose he's so very badly
    mistaken or even lying, particularly when a simple search shows that
    he's speaking the truth, and even gives a possible fix:

    <https://www.google.com/search?q=old+devices+won%27t+connect+to+EE+router> >>
    "Step-by-Step Fixes

    1. Enable "Compatible WiFi" (Recommended)
    EE routers combine 2.4GHz and 5GHz into one network (smart band), which
    confuses older devices and smart home gear.

    [Step by step instructions follow at the link]

    2. Adjust Router Security Settings
    Newer EE routers (like the Smart Hub Plus) use highly advanced security
    standards like WPA3, which older phones, laptops, and printers cannot read. >>
    [Again, step by step instructions follow at the link]"

    Your search reveals that there has been a fix for the problem for at
    least 18 months: https://community.ee.co.uk/t5/Broadband-Landline/Smart-Hub-3-SH31b-Plus-DDNS-back-Older-WiFi-devices-wont-connect/td-p/1486903
    Not the same as the claim in this thread that it is impossible to ever
    use the hub with older devices.


    Or that it indicates that initial testing has overlooked this issue. This
    is a consumer router intended for a largely non technical audience. To have
    an obscure set of settings that can only be identified by a search of a
    forum doesnrCOt really cut the mustard. One poster here, who I happen to know is reasonably technical, got no sensible answers from EE support and solved
    the problem with an external WiFi dongle. .

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob Pullen@me@privacy.net to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri Jul 24 10:54:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 22/07/2026 12:33, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-22 10:32, MikeS wrote:
    On 22/07/2026 07:39, Tweed wrote:
    Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
    On Wed 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:
    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
    On 21/07/2026 18:48, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-21 11:01, Clive Page wrote:

    I have an old Win10 laptop which was working well via wifi to my >>>>>>>> old
    router, then I was forced to migrate from Plusnet to EE and the new >>>>>>>> router did not see it on the network.-a It turns out that the new >>>>>>>> router only works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called >>>>>>>> Wifi6.-a The laptop would work with a an Ethernet cable but I >>>>>>>> wanted a
    solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around.-a I
    solved it
    by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.-a That may be the same >>>>>>>> problem you had.

    I'm very surprised that there was no backwards compatibility.-a-a I >>>>>>> have a
    BTHH5a running OpenWRT, and it will connect seamlessly to hardware >>>>>>> running 802.11g, n, or ac.


    I was surprised too that EE made no attempt, or at least no
    successful
    attempt, to provide backwards compatibility.-a-a But the EE user forums >>>>>> have quite a number of postings from people like me who found that >>>>>> older
    devices of various sorts would not connect to the EE router.



    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some
    manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.


    Yes but, if you are a major ISP as BT/EE is, you will likely be buying >>>> huge quantities of routers - heavens, they even have them logo
    printed -
    which gives them enormous power to tell the supplier what they want the >>>> beast to do. (Remember BT Labs still exist and likely have their
    fingers
    in it!)

    I am cynical enough to suspect that this is a deliberate action to try >>>> to force users to update their associated equipments. (Much the way
    that
    M$ have tried to do with W11 - and so far seem to have failed - despite >>>> what they would like us to believe.)


    WhatrCOs in it for EE to force equipment upgrades? ItrCOs much more
    likely that
    the new routers were never tested against old equipment. Probably
    also the
    procurement specifications were focussed on the shiny new protocols.

    The claim about the EE router issue still seems unlikely.

    My line switches to digital tomorrow and BT have sent me a new router
    (with a telephone socket for Digital Voice). It works perfectly with
    all my devices including one 15 years old with only 2.4GHz WiFi.

    BT and EE devices are now interchangeable apart from logos. For
    example BT also gave me a free Digital Voice adapter branded EE.

    Yes, and I suspect also that there may be something to Woody's point
    about failure to test properly, in this case against old equipment.

    Of course I can't really know because I haven't got one of these, but
    it's possible that a deep trawl through the settings by a knowledgeable person might throw up some configuration error that would be easy to fix.

    BT/EE develop the firmware for their latest routers in house, so a lot
    of how they behave is within control of EE themselves and not dependent
    on whichever ODM they happen to be using.

    Depending on the router, it will default to using
    WPA3-Personal-Transition or WPA3-Personal-Compatibility. In both cases,
    there are some older devices that don't 'like' these security modes
    however, the EE kit compensates for this by offering a 'Compatible WiFi' feature that defaults to WPA2-Personal.

    Note that there *are* older network adapters out there that will simply
    fail to 'see' a WiFi6/ax network at all, despite it being backwards
    compatible by design. This doesn't sound like OP's problem as they could presumably see the WiFi broadcast however, for reference - https://www.tp-link.com/us/support/faq/2303/
    --
    Bob Pullen
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clive Page@usenet@page2.eu to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri Jul 24 13:00:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 23/07/2026 20:23, MikeS wrote:
    On 23/07/2026 17:48, Tweed wrote:
    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
    On 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:
    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
    On 21/07/2026 18:48, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-21 11:01, Clive Page wrote:

    I have an old Win10 laptop which was working well via wifi to my old >>>>>>> router, then I was forced to migrate from Plusnet to EE and the new >>>>>>> router did not see it on the network.-a It turns out that the new >>>>>>> router only works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called
    Wifi6.-a The laptop would work with a an Ethernet cable but I
    wanted a
    solution that would allow the laptop to be moved around.-a I
    solved it
    by buying a USB dongle which supported Wifi6.-a That may be the same >>>>>>> problem you had.

    I'm very surprised that there was no backwards compatibility.-a-a I >>>>>> have a
    BTHH5a running OpenWRT, and it will connect seamlessly to hardware >>>>>> running 802.11g, n, or ac.


    I was surprised too that EE made no attempt, or at least no successful >>>>> attempt, to provide backwards compatibility.-a-a But the EE user forums >>>>> have quite a number of postings from people like me who found that
    older
    devices of various sorts would not connect to the EE router.



    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some
    manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.

    Maybe, but you'd think that among the tests they use on new equipment is >>> that it is compatible with the sort of stuff that the average customer
    has at home, and in many case that will include Win 10 laptops and
    similar devices, such as alarms and CCTV systems.


    Evidence points to the contraryrCa.

    What evidence?

    As far as I can see the debate about EE in this thread is based on one person guessing that an issue with his laptop was because his EE hub
    only connects with WiFi6 devices.
    Well if that was me you are referring to - I did have a very long
    discussion, nearly an hour, with various EE support staff. That was
    their conclusion too. Of course they may not be very expert in these
    arcane features either.
    --
    Clive Page

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clive Page@usenet@page2.eu to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri Jul 24 13:02:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 23/07/2026 23:56, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-23 20:23, MikeS wrote:

    On 23/07/2026 17:48, Tweed wrote:

    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:

    On 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:

    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some
    manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.

    Maybe, but you'd think that among the tests they use on new
    equipment is
    that it is compatible with the sort of stuff that the average customer >>>> has at home, and in many case that will include Win 10 laptops and
    similar devices, such as alarms and CCTV systems.

    Evidence points to the contraryrCa.

    What evidence?

    As far as I can see the debate about EE in this thread is based on one
    person guessing that an issue with his laptop was because his EE hub
    only connects with WiFi6 devices.

    Note that the OP of the thread was NY, but the OP for this subthread is Clive Page in his post of 2026/7/21 at 11:01 wherein he first describes
    the problem, and that in his reply to me of 2026/7/21 at 22:42 he stated:

    "[...] But the EE user forums have quite a number of postings from
    people like me who found that older devices of various sorts would not connect to the EE router."

    So it seems to me that it's rather more than one person and rather more
    than guessing, and even though he did not link to any of those online discussions, you don't have any reason to suppose he's so very badly mistaken or even lying, particularly when a simple search shows that
    he's speaking the truth, and even gives a possible fix:

    <https://www.google.com/search?q=old+devices+won%27t+connect+to+EE+router>

    "Step-by-Step Fixes

    1. Enable "Compatible WiFi" (Recommended)
    EE routers combine 2.4GHz and 5GHz into one network (smart band), which confuses older devices and smart home gear.

    [Step by step instructions follow at the link]

    2. Adjust Router Security Settings
    Newer EE routers (like the Smart Hub Plus) use highly advanced security standards like WPA3, which older phones, laptops, and printers cannot read.

    [Again, step by step instructions follow at the link]"

    Yes, that's more useful than most Google advice, and some of us tried
    that, but it didn't work. Buying a Wifi6-compatible dongle did work at
    a cost of few quid.
    --
    Clive Page

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From MikeS@MikeS@fred.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri Jul 24 18:11:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 24/07/2026 13:02, Clive Page wrote:
    On 23/07/2026 23:56, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-23 20:23, MikeS wrote:

    On 23/07/2026 17:48, Tweed wrote:

    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:

    On 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:

    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some
    manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.

    Maybe, but you'd think that among the tests they use on new
    equipment is
    that it is compatible with the sort of stuff that the average customer >>>>> has at home, and in many case that will include Win 10 laptops and
    similar devices, such as alarms and CCTV systems.

    Evidence points to the contraryrCa.

    What evidence?

    As far as I can see the debate about EE in this thread is based on
    one person guessing that an issue with his laptop was because his EE
    hub only connects with WiFi6 devices.

    Note that the OP of the thread was NY, but the OP for this subthread
    is Clive Page in his post of 2026/7/21 at 11:01 wherein he first
    describes the problem, and that in his reply to me of 2026/7/21 at
    22:42 he stated:

    "[...] But the EE user forums have quite a number of postings from
    people like me who found that older devices of various sorts would not
    connect to the EE router."

    So it seems to me that it's rather more than one person and rather
    more than guessing, and even though he did not link to any of those
    online discussions, you don't have any reason to suppose he's so very
    badly mistaken or even lying, particularly when a simple search shows
    that he's speaking the truth, and even gives a possible fix:

    <https://www.google.com/search?
    q=old+devices+won%27t+connect+to+EE+router>

    "Step-by-Step Fixes

    1. Enable "Compatible WiFi" (Recommended)
    EE routers combine 2.4GHz and 5GHz into one network (smart band),
    which confuses older devices and smart home gear.

    [Step by step instructions follow at the link]

    2. Adjust Router Security Settings
    Newer EE routers (like the Smart Hub Plus) use highly advanced
    security standards like WPA3, which older phones, laptops, and
    printers cannot read.

    [Again, step by step instructions follow at the link]"

    Yes, that's more useful than most Google advice, and some of us tried
    that, but it didn't work.-a Buying a Wifi6-compatible dongle did work at
    a cost of few quid.

    The dongle worked for your laptop but its NOT a universal solution. I
    (and many others) connect numerous older WiFi devices which have no
    means of using a dongle.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From MikeS@MikeS@fred.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri Jul 24 18:22:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 24/07/2026 13:02, Clive Page wrote:
    On 23/07/2026 23:56, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-23 20:23, MikeS wrote:

    On 23/07/2026 17:48, Tweed wrote:

    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:

    On 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:

    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some
    manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.

    Maybe, but you'd think that among the tests they use on new
    equipment is
    that it is compatible with the sort of stuff that the average customer >>>>> has at home, and in many case that will include Win 10 laptops and
    similar devices, such as alarms and CCTV systems.

    Evidence points to the contraryrCa.

    What evidence?

    As far as I can see the debate about EE in this thread is based on
    one person guessing that an issue with his laptop was because his EE
    hub only connects with WiFi6 devices.

    Note that the OP of the thread was NY, but the OP for this subthread
    is Clive Page in his post of 2026/7/21 at 11:01 wherein he first
    describes the problem, and that in his reply to me of 2026/7/21 at
    22:42 he stated:

    "[...] But the EE user forums have quite a number of postings from
    people like me who found that older devices of various sorts would not
    connect to the EE router."

    So it seems to me that it's rather more than one person and rather
    more than guessing, and even though he did not link to any of those
    online discussions, you don't have any reason to suppose he's so very
    badly mistaken or even lying, particularly when a simple search shows
    that he's speaking the truth, and even gives a possible fix:

    <https://www.google.com/search?
    q=old+devices+won%27t+connect+to+EE+router>

    "Step-by-Step Fixes

    1. Enable "Compatible WiFi" (Recommended)
    EE routers combine 2.4GHz and 5GHz into one network (smart band),
    which confuses older devices and smart home gear.

    [Step by step instructions follow at the link]

    2. Adjust Router Security Settings
    Newer EE routers (like the Smart Hub Plus) use highly advanced
    security standards like WPA3, which older phones, laptops, and
    printers cannot read.

    [Again, step by step instructions follow at the link]"

    Yes, that's more useful than most Google advice, and some of us tried
    that, but it didn't work.-a Buying a Wifi6-compatible dongle did work at
    a cost of few quid.

    No idea about the Google advice but here are BT's instructions which
    will be much the same with the corresponding EE router: https://www.bt.com/help/broadband/manage-service/connect-all-your-devices-with-compatible-wi-fi
    Its not exactly rocket science.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clive Page@usenet@page2.eu to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat Jul 25 16:43:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 24/07/2026 18:22, MikeS wrote:
    On 24/07/2026 13:02, Clive Page wrote:
    On 23/07/2026 23:56, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-23 20:23, MikeS wrote:

    On 23/07/2026 17:48, Tweed wrote:

    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:

    On 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:

    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some
    manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.

    Maybe, but you'd think that among the tests they use on new
    equipment is
    that it is compatible with the sort of stuff that the average
    customer
    has at home, and in many case that will include Win 10 laptops and >>>>>> similar devices, such as alarms and CCTV systems.

    Evidence points to the contraryrCa.

    What evidence?

    As far as I can see the debate about EE in this thread is based on
    one person guessing that an issue with his laptop was because his EE
    hub only connects with WiFi6 devices.

    Note that the OP of the thread was NY, but the OP for this subthread
    is Clive Page in his post of 2026/7/21 at 11:01 wherein he first
    describes the problem, and that in his reply to me of 2026/7/21 at
    22:42 he stated:

    "[...] But the EE user forums have quite a number of postings from
    people like me who found that older devices of various sorts would
    not connect to the EE router."

    So it seems to me that it's rather more than one person and rather
    more than guessing, and even though he did not link to any of those
    online discussions, you don't have any reason to suppose he's so very
    badly mistaken or even lying, particularly when a simple search shows
    that he's speaking the truth, and even gives a possible fix:

    <https://www.google.com/search?
    q=old+devices+won%27t+connect+to+EE+router>

    "Step-by-Step Fixes

    1. Enable "Compatible WiFi" (Recommended)
    EE routers combine 2.4GHz and 5GHz into one network (smart band),
    which confuses older devices and smart home gear.

    [Step by step instructions follow at the link]

    2. Adjust Router Security Settings
    Newer EE routers (like the Smart Hub Plus) use highly advanced
    security standards like WPA3, which older phones, laptops, and
    printers cannot read.

    [Again, step by step instructions follow at the link]"

    Yes, that's more useful than most Google advice, and some of us tried
    that, but it didn't work.-a Buying a Wifi6-compatible dongle did work
    at a cost of few quid.

    No idea about the Google advice but here are BT's instructions which
    will be much the same with the corresponding EE router: https://www.bt.com/help/broadband/manage-service/connect-all-your-devices-with-compatible-wi-fi
    Its not exactly rocket science.

    I thought I'd said much earlier that the router's "compatibility mode"
    was one of the first things I tried, but that it wasn't actually any
    use. I agree it isn't rocket science, because rocket science usually works.
    --
    Clive Page

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clive Page@usenet@page2.eu to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat Jul 25 16:45:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 24/07/2026 18:11, MikeS wrote:
    On 24/07/2026 13:02, Clive Page wrote:
    On 23/07/2026 23:56, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-23 20:23, MikeS wrote:

    On 23/07/2026 17:48, Tweed wrote:

    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:

    On 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:

    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some
    manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.

    Maybe, but you'd think that among the tests they use on new
    equipment is
    that it is compatible with the sort of stuff that the average
    customer
    has at home, and in many case that will include Win 10 laptops and >>>>>> similar devices, such as alarms and CCTV systems.

    Evidence points to the contraryrCa.

    What evidence?

    As far as I can see the debate about EE in this thread is based on
    one person guessing that an issue with his laptop was because his EE
    hub only connects with WiFi6 devices.

    Note that the OP of the thread was NY, but the OP for this subthread
    is Clive Page in his post of 2026/7/21 at 11:01 wherein he first
    describes the problem, and that in his reply to me of 2026/7/21 at
    22:42 he stated:

    "[...] But the EE user forums have quite a number of postings from
    people like me who found that older devices of various sorts would
    not connect to the EE router."

    So it seems to me that it's rather more than one person and rather
    more than guessing, and even though he did not link to any of those
    online discussions, you don't have any reason to suppose he's so very
    badly mistaken or even lying, particularly when a simple search shows
    that he's speaking the truth, and even gives a possible fix:

    <https://www.google.com/search?
    q=old+devices+won%27t+connect+to+EE+router>

    "Step-by-Step Fixes

    1. Enable "Compatible WiFi" (Recommended)
    EE routers combine 2.4GHz and 5GHz into one network (smart band),
    which confuses older devices and smart home gear.

    [Step by step instructions follow at the link]

    2. Adjust Router Security Settings
    Newer EE routers (like the Smart Hub Plus) use highly advanced
    security standards like WPA3, which older phones, laptops, and
    printers cannot read.

    [Again, step by step instructions follow at the link]"

    Yes, that's more useful than most Google advice, and some of us tried
    that, but it didn't work.-a Buying a Wifi6-compatible dongle did work
    at a cost of few quid.

    The dongle worked for your laptop but its NOT a universal solution. I
    (and many others) connect numerous older WiFi devices which have no
    means of using a dongle.

    I agree. I was lucky that all my other older devices worked with this
    EE router (slightly to my surprise, actually), and that only this one
    laptop didn't. Others may well find that this solution isn't available
    to them. I'm not expert enough to suggest what they should do instead,
    except keep on badgering their ISP's helpdesk.
    --
    Clive Page

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From MikeS@MikeS@fred.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat Jul 25 17:52:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 25/07/2026 16:45, Clive Page wrote:
    On 24/07/2026 18:11, MikeS wrote:
    On 24/07/2026 13:02, Clive Page wrote:
    On 23/07/2026 23:56, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-23 20:23, MikeS wrote:

    On 23/07/2026 17:48, Tweed wrote:

    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:

    On 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:

    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some >>>>>>>> manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.

    Maybe, but you'd think that among the tests they use on new
    equipment is
    that it is compatible with the sort of stuff that the average
    customer
    has at home, and in many case that will include Win 10 laptops and >>>>>>> similar devices, such as alarms and CCTV systems.

    Evidence points to the contraryrCa.

    What evidence?

    As far as I can see the debate about EE in this thread is based on
    one person guessing that an issue with his laptop was because his
    EE hub only connects with WiFi6 devices.

    Note that the OP of the thread was NY, but the OP for this subthread
    is Clive Page in his post of 2026/7/21 at 11:01 wherein he first
    describes the problem, and that in his reply to me of 2026/7/21 at
    22:42 he stated:

    "[...] But the EE user forums have quite a number of postings from
    people like me who found that older devices of various sorts would
    not connect to the EE router."

    So it seems to me that it's rather more than one person and rather
    more than guessing, and even though he did not link to any of those
    online discussions, you don't have any reason to suppose he's so
    very badly mistaken or even lying, particularly when a simple search
    shows that he's speaking the truth, and even gives a possible fix:

    <https://www.google.com/search?
    q=old+devices+won%27t+connect+to+EE+router>

    "Step-by-Step Fixes

    1. Enable "Compatible WiFi" (Recommended)
    EE routers combine 2.4GHz and 5GHz into one network (smart band),
    which confuses older devices and smart home gear.

    [Step by step instructions follow at the link]

    2. Adjust Router Security Settings
    Newer EE routers (like the Smart Hub Plus) use highly advanced
    security standards like WPA3, which older phones, laptops, and
    printers cannot read.

    [Again, step by step instructions follow at the link]"

    Yes, that's more useful than most Google advice, and some of us tried
    that, but it didn't work.-a Buying a Wifi6-compatible dongle did work
    at a cost of few quid.

    The dongle worked for your laptop but its NOT a universal solution. I
    (and many others) connect numerous older WiFi devices which have no
    means of using a dongle.

    I agree.-a I was lucky that all my other older devices worked with this
    EE router (slightly to my surprise, actually), and that only this one
    laptop didn't.-a Others may well find that this solution isn't available
    to them.-a I'm not expert enough to suggest what they should do instead, except keep on badgering their ISP's helpdesk.

    So, after 4 days of pointless discussion you have finally confirmed the fallacy of your original claim "It turns out that the new router only
    works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called Wifi6."

    Common sense says there is a problem with your laptop's WiFi adapter
    which not surprisingly is avoided by using a WiFi dongle.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From MikeS@MikeS@fred.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sat Jul 25 17:58:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 25/07/2026 16:43, Clive Page wrote:
    On 24/07/2026 18:22, MikeS wrote:
    On 24/07/2026 13:02, Clive Page wrote:
    On 23/07/2026 23:56, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-23 20:23, MikeS wrote:

    On 23/07/2026 17:48, Tweed wrote:

    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:

    On 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:

    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some >>>>>>>> manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.

    Maybe, but you'd think that among the tests they use on new
    equipment is
    that it is compatible with the sort of stuff that the average
    customer
    has at home, and in many case that will include Win 10 laptops and >>>>>>> similar devices, such as alarms and CCTV systems.

    Evidence points to the contraryrCa.

    What evidence?

    As far as I can see the debate about EE in this thread is based on
    one person guessing that an issue with his laptop was because his
    EE hub only connects with WiFi6 devices.

    Note that the OP of the thread was NY, but the OP for this subthread
    is Clive Page in his post of 2026/7/21 at 11:01 wherein he first
    describes the problem, and that in his reply to me of 2026/7/21 at
    22:42 he stated:

    "[...] But the EE user forums have quite a number of postings from
    people like me who found that older devices of various sorts would
    not connect to the EE router."

    So it seems to me that it's rather more than one person and rather
    more than guessing, and even though he did not link to any of those
    online discussions, you don't have any reason to suppose he's so
    very badly mistaken or even lying, particularly when a simple search
    shows that he's speaking the truth, and even gives a possible fix:

    <https://www.google.com/search?
    q=old+devices+won%27t+connect+to+EE+router>

    "Step-by-Step Fixes

    1. Enable "Compatible WiFi" (Recommended)
    EE routers combine 2.4GHz and 5GHz into one network (smart band),
    which confuses older devices and smart home gear.

    [Step by step instructions follow at the link]

    2. Adjust Router Security Settings
    Newer EE routers (like the Smart Hub Plus) use highly advanced
    security standards like WPA3, which older phones, laptops, and
    printers cannot read.

    [Again, step by step instructions follow at the link]"

    Yes, that's more useful than most Google advice, and some of us tried
    that, but it didn't work.-a Buying a Wifi6-compatible dongle did work
    at a cost of few quid.

    No idea about the Google advice but here are BT's instructions which
    will be much the same with the corresponding EE router:
    https://www.bt.com/help/broadband/manage-service/connect-all-your-
    devices-with-compatible-wi-fi
    Its not exactly rocket science.

    I thought I'd said much earlier that the router's "compatibility mode"
    was one of the first things I tried, but that it wasn't actually any
    use.-a I agree it isn't rocket science, because rocket science usually works.


    Its not rocket science that "compatibility mode" was no use when, as
    made obvious by your other post, the problem was with a fault in the
    laptop WiFi adapter which you bypassed by using a WiFi dongle.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clive Page@usenet@page2.eu to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun Jul 26 22:03:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 25/07/2026 17:52, MikeS wrote:
    On 25/07/2026 16:45, Clive Page wrote:
    On 24/07/2026 18:11, MikeS wrote:
    On 24/07/2026 13:02, Clive Page wrote:
    On 23/07/2026 23:56, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-23 20:23, MikeS wrote:

    On 23/07/2026 17:48, Tweed wrote:

    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:

    On 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:

    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some >>>>>>>>> manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.

    Maybe, but you'd think that among the tests they use on new
    equipment is
    that it is compatible with the sort of stuff that the average >>>>>>>> customer
    has at home, and in many case that will include Win 10 laptops and >>>>>>>> similar devices, such as alarms and CCTV systems.

    Evidence points to the contraryrCa.

    What evidence?

    As far as I can see the debate about EE in this thread is based on >>>>>> one person guessing that an issue with his laptop was because his >>>>>> EE hub only connects with WiFi6 devices.

    Note that the OP of the thread was NY, but the OP for this
    subthread is Clive Page in his post of 2026/7/21 at 11:01 wherein
    he first describes the problem, and that in his reply to me of
    2026/7/21 at 22:42 he stated:

    "[...] But the EE user forums have quite a number of postings from
    people like me who found that older devices of various sorts would
    not connect to the EE router."

    So it seems to me that it's rather more than one person and rather
    more than guessing, and even though he did not link to any of those >>>>> online discussions, you don't have any reason to suppose he's so
    very badly mistaken or even lying, particularly when a simple
    search shows that he's speaking the truth, and even gives a
    possible fix:

    <https://www.google.com/search?
    q=old+devices+won%27t+connect+to+EE+router>

    "Step-by-Step Fixes

    1. Enable "Compatible WiFi" (Recommended)
    EE routers combine 2.4GHz and 5GHz into one network (smart band),
    which confuses older devices and smart home gear.

    [Step by step instructions follow at the link]

    2. Adjust Router Security Settings
    Newer EE routers (like the Smart Hub Plus) use highly advanced
    security standards like WPA3, which older phones, laptops, and
    printers cannot read.

    [Again, step by step instructions follow at the link]"

    Yes, that's more useful than most Google advice, and some of us
    tried that, but it didn't work.-a Buying a Wifi6-compatible dongle
    did work at a cost of few quid.

    The dongle worked for your laptop but its NOT a universal solution. I
    (and many others) connect numerous older WiFi devices which have no
    means of using a dongle.

    I agree.-a I was lucky that all my other older devices worked with this
    EE router (slightly to my surprise, actually), and that only this one
    laptop didn't.-a Others may well find that this solution isn't
    available to them.-a I'm not expert enough to suggest what they should
    do instead, except keep on badgering their ISP's helpdesk.

    So, after 4 days of pointless discussion you have finally confirmed the fallacy of your original claim "It turns out that the new router only
    works with a new standard (new to me anyway) called Wifi6."

    Common sense says there is a problem with your laptop's WiFi adapter
    which not surprisingly is avoided by using a WiFi dongle.

    I'm sorry I don't see how you come to that conclusion, or indeed why you
    are bothering to post.

    I stand by my initial statement that the new EE router only works with
    the devices that can handle the newish Wifi6 standard. There is a "compatibility mode" which didn't in fact help. And the best resources
    of the EE helpdesk couldn't get it to work with my old laptop either.

    That laptop was working perfectly well with the old Plusnet router, and
    would work with the new router if I connected it using a physical
    Ethernet cable, but that wasn't all that convenient on a portable device.

    You only have to browse the Plusnet and EE community forums to see lots
    of other customers with very similar problems. Some of them solved
    their problems using a dongle which is where I got the idea from. I
    don't claim to be a Wifi expert, but I shouldn't need to be. Internet
    routers are consumer devices which ordinary non-expert customers of
    these ISP ought to be able to use without such problems. It is in my
    view very poor that EE could not resolve my problem: I had to do it
    myself. I fully expect that I shall take my business elsewhere as soon
    as my current contract expires.
    --
    Clive Page

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clive Page@usenet@page2.eu to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun Jul 26 22:06:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 25/07/2026 17:58, MikeS wrote:
    On 25/07/2026 16:43, Clive Page wrote:
    On 24/07/2026 18:22, MikeS wrote:
    On 24/07/2026 13:02, Clive Page wrote:
    On 23/07/2026 23:56, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-23 20:23, MikeS wrote:

    On 23/07/2026 17:48, Tweed wrote:

    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:

    On 22/07/2026 06:42, Tweed wrote:

    But itrCOs not EE is it? TheyrCOve purchased them in from some >>>>>>>>> manufacturer,
    and probably have no real idea how they work in detail.

    Maybe, but you'd think that among the tests they use on new
    equipment is
    that it is compatible with the sort of stuff that the average >>>>>>>> customer
    has at home, and in many case that will include Win 10 laptops and >>>>>>>> similar devices, such as alarms and CCTV systems.

    Evidence points to the contraryrCa.

    What evidence?

    As far as I can see the debate about EE in this thread is based on >>>>>> one person guessing that an issue with his laptop was because his >>>>>> EE hub only connects with WiFi6 devices.

    Note that the OP of the thread was NY, but the OP for this
    subthread is Clive Page in his post of 2026/7/21 at 11:01 wherein
    he first describes the problem, and that in his reply to me of
    2026/7/21 at 22:42 he stated:

    "[...] But the EE user forums have quite a number of postings from
    people like me who found that older devices of various sorts would
    not connect to the EE router."

    So it seems to me that it's rather more than one person and rather
    more than guessing, and even though he did not link to any of those >>>>> online discussions, you don't have any reason to suppose he's so
    very badly mistaken or even lying, particularly when a simple
    search shows that he's speaking the truth, and even gives a
    possible fix:

    <https://www.google.com/search?
    q=old+devices+won%27t+connect+to+EE+router>

    "Step-by-Step Fixes

    1. Enable "Compatible WiFi" (Recommended)
    EE routers combine 2.4GHz and 5GHz into one network (smart band),
    which confuses older devices and smart home gear.

    [Step by step instructions follow at the link]

    2. Adjust Router Security Settings
    Newer EE routers (like the Smart Hub Plus) use highly advanced
    security standards like WPA3, which older phones, laptops, and
    printers cannot read.

    [Again, step by step instructions follow at the link]"

    Yes, that's more useful than most Google advice, and some of us
    tried that, but it didn't work.-a Buying a Wifi6-compatible dongle
    did work at a cost of few quid.

    No idea about the Google advice but here are BT's instructions which
    will be much the same with the corresponding EE router:
    https://www.bt.com/help/broadband/manage-service/connect-all-your-
    devices-with-compatible-wi-fi
    Its not exactly rocket science.

    I thought I'd said much earlier that the router's "compatibility mode"
    was one of the first things I tried, but that it wasn't actually any
    use.-a I agree it isn't rocket science, because rocket science usually
    works.


    Its not rocket science that "compatibility mode" was no use when, as
    made obvious by your other post, the problem was with a fault in the
    laptop WiFi adapter which you bypassed by using a WiFi dongle.

    Just to repeat a point you seem to have missed: there is no fault with
    the laptop's wifi adapter: it worked fine for years with the old Plusnet router and works just as well with wifi hotspots that I sometimes need
    to use when taking it outside my home. But it doesn't support the Wifi6 standard, which came out after the laptop was made.
    --
    Clive Page

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon Jul 27 10:55:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
    On 25/07/2026 17:52, MikeS wrote:
    Common sense says there is a problem with your laptop's WiFi adapter
    which not surprisingly is avoided by using a WiFi dongle.

    I'm sorry I don't see how you come to that conclusion, or indeed why you
    are bothering to post.

    I stand by my initial statement that the new EE router only works with
    the devices that can handle the newish Wifi6 standard. There is a "compatibility mode" which didn't in fact help. And the best resources
    of the EE helpdesk couldn't get it to work with my old laptop either.

    That's not correct. Bob's post explains. Normally older devices work just
    fine on wifi 6 networks - I'm running wifi 6 and few of my devices support
    it. The TPLink page about the issue is this: https://www.tp-link.com/us/support/faq/2303/

    Certain Intel wifi cards have a bug that makes them not work, even on
    the compatibility network which supports older WPA encryption. Intel has decided they're end of life so there are no driver updates to fix the bug. Those wifi cards would then fail to work with any modern router. The only option is an alternative adapter, which you've done.

    If there's anyone to blame it's Intel for refusing to fix problems with
    their hardware. Sooner or later the ISP was going to update the router to a newer wifi standard and trigger the bug, it was just a matter of time.

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clive Page@usenet@page2.eu to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon Jul 27 22:06:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 27/07/2026 10:55, Theo wrote:
    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
    On 25/07/2026 17:52, MikeS wrote:
    Common sense says there is a problem with your laptop's WiFi adapter
    which not surprisingly is avoided by using a WiFi dongle.

    I'm sorry I don't see how you come to that conclusion, or indeed why you
    are bothering to post.

    I stand by my initial statement that the new EE router only works with
    the devices that can handle the newish Wifi6 standard. There is a
    "compatibility mode" which didn't in fact help. And the best resources
    of the EE helpdesk couldn't get it to work with my old laptop either.

    That's not correct. Bob's post explains. Normally older devices work just fine on wifi 6 networks - I'm running wifi 6 and few of my devices support it. The TPLink page about the issue is this: https://www.tp-link.com/us/support/faq/2303/

    Certain Intel wifi cards have a bug that makes them not work, even on
    the compatibility network which supports older WPA encryption. Intel has decided they're end of life so there are no driver updates to fix the bug. Those wifi cards would then fail to work with any modern router. The only option is an alternative adapter, which you've done.

    If there's anyone to blame it's Intel for refusing to fix problems with
    their hardware. Sooner or later the ISP was going to update the router to a newer wifi standard and trigger the bug, it was just a matter of time.

    Theo

    Alternatively one might think that if there is a bug in an Intel chipset
    which is commonly installed in consumer laptops with no fix, then one
    might expect a competent ISP to arrange a work-around for these devices.
    It might be the *fault* of Intel, narrowly defined, but there's no
    reason why consumer grade devices should not "just work" out of the box.

    But I did make reference to a competent ISP above - and note that I've
    been using EE. I make no further comment.
    --
    Clive Page

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon Jul 27 22:56:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
    On 27/07/2026 10:55, Theo wrote:

    Certain Intel wifi cards have a bug that makes them not work, even on
    the compatibility network which supports older WPA encryption. Intel has decided they're end of life so there are no driver updates to fix the bug. Those wifi cards would then fail to work with any modern router. The only option is an alternative adapter, which you've done.

    If there's anyone to blame it's Intel for refusing to fix problems with their hardware. Sooner or later the ISP was going to update the router
    to a newer wifi standard and trigger the bug, it was just a matter of
    time.

    Alternatively one might think that if there is a bug in an Intel chipset which is commonly installed in consumer laptops with no fix, then one
    might expect a competent ISP to arrange a work-around for these devices.
    It might be the *fault* of Intel, narrowly defined, but there's no
    reason why consumer grade devices should not "just work" out of the box.

    The newer kit demands higher wifi capability: if people are buying gigabit broadband they expect the router to be able to keep up. Sitcking with the
    old standard of wifi 5 (released 2013) just because a few people have wifi hardware that hasn't been manufactured since 2016 would be a terrible
    business decision. And when do you stop... do you stick with a standard
    that is 13, 18, 23 years old until the tiny minority of hardware concerned
    is 10, 15, 20 years old? All when a cheap dongle solved your problem.

    But I did make reference to a competent ISP above - and note that I've
    been using EE. I make no further comment.

    It sounds like they should have known about the problem earlier, but it is quite a niche problem. Bob from Plusnet evidently does know about it;
    perhaps you need to go several levels in the support tree for them to understand it.

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Nick Finnigan@nix@genie.co.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon Jul 27 23:19:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 27/07/2026 22:56, Theo wrote:

    The newer kit demands higher wifi capability: if people are buying gigabit broadband they expect the router to be able to keep up. Sitcking with the old standard of wifi 5 (released 2013) just because a few people have wifi hardware that hasn't been manufactured since 2016 would be a terrible business decision. And when do you stop... do you stick with a standard that is 13, 18, 23 years old until the tiny minority of hardware concerned
    is 10, 15, 20 years old? All when a cheap dongle solved your problem.

    EE claim that the hubs support 20 year old wifi standards.

    https://ee.co.uk/help/device-help/compare-our-smart-hubs
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Tue Jul 28 01:04:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
    On 27/07/2026 22:56, Theo wrote:

    The newer kit demands higher wifi capability: if people are buying gigabit broadband they expect the router to be able to keep up. Sitcking with the old standard of wifi 5 (released 2013) just because a few people have wifi hardware that hasn't been manufactured since 2016 would be a terrible business decision. And when do you stop... do you stick with a standard that is 13, 18, 23 years old until the tiny minority of hardware concerned is 10, 15, 20 years old? All when a cheap dongle solved your problem.

    EE claim that the hubs support 20 year old wifi standards.

    https://ee.co.uk/help/device-help/compare-our-smart-hubs

    But Clive's wifi card doesn't work with routers that support both newer and older standards. Other older kit connects to newer routers just fine, but
    his particular card won't because of a bug.

    EE still list a wifi 5 router, but I expect those aren't being given out to
    new customers. I suspect they will be eventually handing out wifi 6 or 7 routers to replace it for their existing customers, eg at contract renewal.

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adrian Caspersz@email@here.invalid to uk.telecom.broadband on Tue Jul 28 14:09:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 20/07/2026 15:08, NY wrote:
    A Win 10 PC with a PCI wifi card cannot connect to a router's wifi. It
    shows as "Secured" (so it has passed the WPA authentication) but DHCP is
    not obtaining an IP address. Even setting a static IP in the correct
    DHCP range, with the router's IP as gateway and DNS doesn't work: I
    cannot ping the router.

    The PC and card can connect to a wifi network that my phone shares as tethering from its mobile phone connection.

    The mobile phone in non-tethering mode can connect to the router.

    What could be the difference?

    Unfortunately although the PC has an Ethernet port, Windows is not
    seeing it as a device (it's not even showing as present but disabled/
    can't start etc) and the link light on the router doesn't show a
    physical connection.

    missing driver issue, it's not installed?


    I'm about to try a different wi-fi device. I was going to try a USB
    Ethernet adaptor, but the only one I have has a USB-C plug, and I don't
    have a female USB-C to male USB-A adaptor :-(

    The router is a Zyxel and it uses both 2.4 and 5 GHz bands.

    For the wireless, MAC filtering perhaps?

    Is there an 'allow' or 'disable' option in the router GUI, or a physical button that must be pressed after entering the password, and attempting connection?

    I'd expect some diagnostics from the router on the failure.
    --
    Adrian C
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From NY@me@privacy.net to uk.telecom.broadband on Wed Jul 29 11:26:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 28/07/2026 14:09, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
    On 20/07/2026 15:08, NY wrote:
    I'm about to try a different wi-fi device. I was going to try a USB
    Ethernet adaptor, but the only one I have has a USB-C plug, and I
    don't have a female USB-C to male USB-A adaptor :-(

    The router is a Zyxel and it uses both 2.4 and 5 GHz bands.

    For the wireless, MAC filtering perhaps?

    Is there an 'allow' or 'disable' option in the router GUI, or a physical button that must be pressed after entering the password, and attempting connection?

    I'd expect some diagnostics from the router on the failure.

    It turned out to be an issue with the PCI wifi card - either drivers or compatibility with the most recent wifi standards. What was odd was that
    the PC *appeared* to pass the first step, of validating the WPA key, but
    then failed to transmit packets such as DHCP request "router, please
    allocate an IP address to me".

    Using a USB wifi adaptor worked immediately (having disabled the PCI
    device in Device Manager; I could have unplugged the card completely).

    The missing Ethernet adaptor was odd. The BIOS showed that it was
    present and had passed any diagnostics that the BIOS performed. But
    there was no mention of it in Device Manager | Network Adaptors - so it
    wasn't even being *detected*, irrespective of any driver issue.


    Given that an Ethernet cable was plugged in when I was called to look at
    the PC, my theory is that:

    - wifi had never worked to his present router (even if it had to a
    previous one for which the wifi card was bought)

    - the PC had used Ethernet

    - the Ethernet controller on the motherboard had failed


    I was originally called in because the PC would not turn on: there was
    (and still is) a problem with the motherboard not reacting to the
    soft-power button being pressed and taking the PS_ON line of the PC low.
    But it only happens if the PC has been without mains power for many
    hours; if the power is removed for an hour or so before being restored,
    the mobo reacts correctly to the soft-power switch. So it is only a
    problem for a very long power cut. I've taken a wire from PS_ON to a
    switch which allows it to be connected to 0V (PC case) momentarily for
    use in that circumstance - because doing so even for a second or so
    (even if the PSU turns itself off as soon as PS_ON is no longer held
    low) allows soft power to work normally.

    I wonder if the mobo has suffered some minor damage (power spike?) which
    has a) slightly compromised the soft-power circuit, and b) killed the
    Ethernet controller.

    The main objective was getting the PC working, rather than chasing the
    root cause once I'd got workarounds - pragmatism at work!


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Wed Jul 29 11:33:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    NY wrote:

    Given that an Ethernet cable was plugged in when I was called to look at
    the PC, my theory is that:

    - wifi had never worked to his present router (even if it had to a
    previous one for which the wifi-a card was bought)

    - the PC had used Ethernet

    Unless manually altered, the metrics on a wired ethernet will be lower
    (hence preferred over wifi).

    - the Ethernet controller on the motherboard had failed

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Java Jive@java@evij.com.invalid to uk.telecom.broadband on Wed Jul 29 12:27:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 2026-07-29 11:26, NY wrote:

    I wonder if the mobo has suffered some minor damage (power spike?) which
    has a) slightly compromised the soft-power circuit, and b) killed the Ethernet controller.

    Yes, that was what was occurring to me as I was reading through your description. At this time of year, lightning is a possible culprit,
    either from a storm or created by wildfires.
    --

    Fake news kills!

    I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: www.macfh.co.uk

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From NY@me@privacy.net to uk.telecom.broadband on Wed Jul 29 14:50:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 29/07/2026 12:27, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-29 11:26, NY wrote:

    I wonder if the mobo has suffered some minor damage (power spike?)
    which has a) slightly compromised the soft-power circuit, and b)
    killed the Ethernet controller.

    Yes, that was what was occurring to me as I was reading through your description.-a At this time of year, lightning is a possible culprit,
    either from a storm or created by wildfires.

    Yes, usually its the PSU that takes the brunt of a lighting strike
    power-surge (obviously not a direct hit on your overhead mains feed to
    the house!). But stranger things have happened.

    The only time I lost the PSU on my desktop PC, I had a spare one. I ran weather-station software on the PC which updates a web server every 10 minutes. I felt very chuffed that I was able to locate the spare PSU, disconnect and remove the old one, fit and connect the new one, and boot
    back up - all without missing an every-10-mins update ;-)


    I did check all the power lines of the PSU in the PC with the "missing" Ethernet and the bizarre turn-on problem, to make sure that each line
    (when the PC was fully booted) was close to its nominal voltage. And it
    was. SO it wasn't just an under-voltage problem.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Java Jive@java@evij.com.invalid to uk.telecom.broadband on Wed Jul 29 19:32:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 2026-07-29 14:50, NY wrote:

    Yes, usually its the PSU that takes the brunt of a lighting strike power-surge (obviously not a direct hit on your overhead mains feed to
    the house!). But stranger things have happened.

    Yes, I suspect that is most common, but it doesn't always happen like
    that. Sometimes it comes down some other cable, for example down the
    phone line into the router and along the network cable.
    --

    Fake news kills!

    I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: www.macfh.co.uk

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From NY@me@privacy.net to uk.telecom.broadband on Thu Jul 30 13:29:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 29/07/2026 19:32, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-29 14:50, NY wrote:

    Yes, usually its the PSU that takes the brunt of a lighting strike
    power-surge (obviously not a direct hit on your overhead mains feed to
    the house!). But stranger things have happened.

    Yes, I suspect that is most common, but it doesn't always happen like that.-a Sometimes it comes down some other cable, for example down the
    phone line into the router and along the network cable.


    I remember buying a power-strip (multiple mains sockets) which had surge protection built in, and there were also RJ11 and BT sockets to allow a
    phone cable to be looped through the surge protector in case the phone
    line was struck.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tweed@usenet.tweed@gmail.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Thu Jul 30 12:58:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
    On 29/07/2026 19:32, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2026-07-29 14:50, NY wrote:

    Yes, usually its the PSU that takes the brunt of a lighting strike
    power-surge (obviously not a direct hit on your overhead mains feed to
    the house!). But stranger things have happened.

    Yes, I suspect that is most common, but it doesn't always happen like
    that.-a Sometimes it comes down some other cable, for example down the
    phone line into the router and along the network cable.


    I remember buying a power-strip (multiple mains sockets) which had surge protection built in, and there were also RJ11 and BT sockets to allow a phone cable to be looped through the surge protector in case the phone
    line was struck.


    Most of those alleged surge protectors are entirely useless. Their
    breakdown voltage is well beyond the destruction voltage of any of the
    silicon circuits and they are too small to absorb a sizeable strike that
    might burn your house down.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Thu Jul 30 20:57:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 2026/7/30 13:58:52, Tweed wrote:
    NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
    []
    I remember buying a power-strip (multiple mains sockets) which had surge
    protection built in, and there were also RJ11 and BT sockets to allow a
    phone cable to be looped through the surge protector in case the phone
    line was struck.


    Most of those alleged surge protectors are entirely useless. Their
    breakdown voltage is well beyond the destruction voltage of any of the silicon circuits and they are too small to absorb a sizeable strike that might burn your house down.

    I wasn't aware of that aspect; what I am aware of is that there's often
    no indication as to whether the protection is still active - the
    plugboard continues to work as a plugboard even after the built-in
    protection has sacrificed itself, thus giving a false sense of security.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From NY@me@privacy.net to uk.telecom.broadband on Thu Jul 30 22:34:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 30/07/2026 20:57, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/7/30 13:58:52, Tweed wrote:
    NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
    []
    I remember buying a power-strip (multiple mains sockets) which had surge >>> protection built in, and there were also RJ11 and BT sockets to allow a
    phone cable to be looped through the surge protector in case the phone
    line was struck.


    Most of those alleged surge protectors are entirely useless. Their
    breakdown voltage is well beyond the destruction voltage of any of the
    silicon circuits and they are too small to absorb a sizeable strike that
    might burn your house down.

    I wasn't aware of that aspect; what I am aware of is that there's often
    no indication as to whether the protection is still active - the
    plugboard continues to work as a plugboard even after the built-in
    protection has sacrificed itself, thus giving a false sense of security.

    I did buy a single-plug surge-protector (you plugged a power strip into
    its outlet) and it had an LED which lit only if protection was still
    being applied (or maybe only if it was not).

    I imagine that surge-protectors are useful only for small over-voltage
    spikes that might damage sensitive equipment but which would be harmless
    to the house wiring.

    I wouldn't expect it to protect against a direct strike. Hell, even
    thick copper lighting conductor strips down the outside of buildings
    often fail to do that. Though they may alter the electric field around
    the protected building and reduce the change of being struck in the
    first place - or is that bit a myth?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Java Jive@java@evij.com.invalid to uk.telecom.broadband on Thu Jul 30 23:01:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 2026-07-30 22:34, NY wrote:

    I wouldn't expect it to protect against a direct strike. Hell, even
    thick copper lighting conductor strips down the outside of buildings
    often fail to do that. Though they may alter the electric field around
    the protected building and reduce the change of being struck in the
    first place - or is that bit a myth?

    I don't think so, I remember being taught something like that in science classes, but a brief search did not find much online. The nearest I
    found was this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod#Charge_transfer_theory
    --

    Fake news kills!

    I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: www.macfh.co.uk

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tweed@usenet.tweed@gmail.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri Jul 31 04:22:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
    On 30/07/2026 20:57, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/7/30 13:58:52, Tweed wrote:
    NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
    []
    I remember buying a power-strip (multiple mains sockets) which had surge >>>> protection built in, and there were also RJ11 and BT sockets to allow a >>>> phone cable to be looped through the surge protector in case the phone >>>> line was struck.


    Most of those alleged surge protectors are entirely useless. Their
    breakdown voltage is well beyond the destruction voltage of any of the
    silicon circuits and they are too small to absorb a sizeable strike that >>> might burn your house down.

    I wasn't aware of that aspect; what I am aware of is that there's often
    no indication as to whether the protection is still active - the
    plugboard continues to work as a plugboard even after the built-in
    protection has sacrificed itself, thus giving a false sense of security.

    I did buy a single-plug surge-protector (you plugged a power strip into
    its outlet) and it had an LED which lit only if protection was still
    being applied (or maybe only if it was not).

    I imagine that surge-protectors are useful only for small over-voltage spikes that might damage sensitive equipment but which would be harmless
    to the house wiring.

    I wouldn't expect it to protect against a direct strike. Hell, even
    thick copper lighting conductor strips down the outside of buildings
    often fail to do that. Though they may alter the electric field around
    the protected building and reduce the change of being struck in the
    first place - or is that bit a myth?


    I canrCOt think of a circuit that proves that a transient suppressor is
    working and can light an LED. ThererCOs some merit in protecting the 230V
    side of things. ItrCOs going to limit excess voltage going into the power supply and gives the regulation circuit a fighting chance. That said, who
    knows what the suppression components on a cheap power strip actually are.
    I bet a lot of them donrCOt do very much.
    Protecting silicon at the low voltage level is quite hard. Devices that let
    5V through but clamp hard at 6V are relatively expensive.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri Jul 31 09:26:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 2026/7/31 5:22:45, Tweed wrote:
    NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
    On 30/07/2026 20:57, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/7/30 13:58:52, Tweed wrote:
    NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
    []
    I remember buying a power-strip (multiple mains sockets) which had surge >>>>> protection built in, and there were also RJ11 and BT sockets to allow a >>>>> phone cable to be looped through the surge protector in case the phone >>>>> line was struck.


    Most of those alleged surge protectors are entirely useless. Their
    breakdown voltage is well beyond the destruction voltage of any of the >>>> silicon circuits and they are too small to absorb a sizeable strike that >>>> might burn your house down.

    I wasn't aware of that aspect; what I am aware of is that there's often
    no indication as to whether the protection is still active - the
    plugboard continues to work as a plugboard even after the built-in
    protection has sacrificed itself, thus giving a false sense of security.

    I did buy a single-plug surge-protector (you plugged a power strip into
    its outlet) and it had an LED which lit only if protection was still
    being applied (or maybe only if it was not).

    I imagine that surge-protectors are useful only for small over-voltage
    spikes that might damage sensitive equipment but which would be harmless
    to the house wiring.

    I wouldn't expect it to protect against a direct strike. Hell, even
    thick copper lighting conductor strips down the outside of buildings
    often fail to do that. Though they may alter the electric field around
    the protected building and reduce the change of being struck in the
    first place - or is that bit a myth?

    I'm sure they _do_ affect the field around the building - they must,
    surely, tie the top of the building to nearer ground potential. I
    suspect that makes them/it _more_ likely to get hit, but discharge minor strikes more harmlessly, or something like that - else why does anyone
    install them!>
    I canrCOt think of a circuit that proves that a transient suppressor is working and can light an LED. ThererCOs some merit in protecting the 230V

    Indeed; I think I've seen ones where a light showed it _wasn't_ working,
    but I can't think of a circuit that would do that either!

    side of things. ItrCOs going to limit excess voltage going into the power supply and gives the regulation circuit a fighting chance. That said, who knows what the suppression components on a cheap power strip actually are.
    I bet a lot of them donrCOt do very much.

    Presumably something that conducts at say 600-700V (for a "240V RMS"
    circuit), and bidirectionally.

    Protecting silicon at the low voltage level is quite hard. Devices that let 5V through but clamp hard at 6V are relatively expensive.

    And, oresumably, need significant heatsinking if they're going to
    survive long.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby
    can't chew it - Anonymous, 2025-7-2
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri Jul 31 13:17:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
    I canrCOt think of a circuit that proves that a transient suppressor is working and can light an LED.

    I'd be applying a small 400V pulse and measuring the current flow. If the current is much higher at 400V than it is at 340V (240V AC peak to peak voltage) then the suppressor is operational. At low duration / low current that pulse is less likely to damage anything.

    But that's perhaps too expensive for a -u10 power strip.

    Protecting silicon at the low voltage level is quite hard. Devices that
    let 5V through but clamp hard at 6V are relatively expensive.

    It's not too hard to make something that goes low resistance at a few volts - Zener
    diodes do that, and ESD protection diodes are common on digital inputs,
    which don't like voltages higher than about 4V in modern processes: https://monthly-pulse.com/2022/03/29/introduction-esd-protection-concepts-for-i-os/

    Active circuits can do it more precisely if you want that. But the problem
    is where do you dump the current that flows? If you want to siphon off
    energy that would ordinarily be damaging the low voltage electronics, you
    have to send it somewhere. If you suddenly get a kA pulse it doesn't matter how sensitive your 'clamp' is if the thing it's using to absorb the energy
    is instantly vapourised.

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tweed@usenet.tweed@gmail.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri Jul 31 15:20:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
    I canrCOt think of a circuit that proves that a transient suppressor is
    working and can light an LED.

    I'd be applying a small 400V pulse and measuring the current flow. If the current is much higher at 400V than it is at 340V (240V AC peak to peak voltage) then the suppressor is operational. At low duration / low current that pulse is less likely to damage anything.

    But that's perhaps too expensive for a -u10 power strip.

    Protecting silicon at the low voltage level is quite hard. Devices that
    let 5V through but clamp hard at 6V are relatively expensive.

    It's not too hard to make something that goes low resistance at a few volts - Zener
    diodes do that, and ESD protection diodes are common on digital inputs,
    which don't like voltages higher than about 4V in modern processes: https://monthly-pulse.com/2022/03/29/introduction-esd-protection-concepts-for-i-os/

    Active circuits can do it more precisely if you want that. But the problem is where do you dump the current that flows? If you want to siphon off energy that would ordinarily be damaging the low voltage electronics, you have to send it somewhere. If you suddenly get a kA pulse it doesn't matter how sensitive your 'clamp' is if the thing it's using to absorb the energy
    is instantly vapourised.

    Theo


    Zener diodes arenrCOt much use. They have quite a voltage range between being fully non conducting and their specified zener voltage. Yes, protection can
    be added with relatively expensive components, but your average consumer
    kit usually lacks this, and your surge protected power strip certainly
    does. Surges and spikes are usually terms bandied about by those that have
    a tenuous grasp of the concepts - at best. Ethernet is reasonably well protected by virtue of the input isolation transformer.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Fri Jul 31 17:44:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Tweed wrote:

    I canrCOt think of a circuit that proves that a transient suppressor is working and can light an LED.

    I think on the whole-home SPDs, when the MOV gets "used up" it
    deliberately overheats a bridge formed of low melting point solder, that allows a spring to open a set of contacts and show a red flag instead of
    a green one ... you're unlikely to get all that within a 4-way mains strip.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2