• Advert for BT disguised as news, or public information film?

    From Richmond@dnomhcir@gmx.com to uk.telecom on Sat May 2 13:58:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/finance/news/nationwide-switch-digital-landlines-less-155331532.html

    Landlines are being upgraded she says, there will be no extra cost, and
    it's as easy as unplugging your phone and plugging it in again. BT will
    guide you, and support you. Keep your existing phone number. It's all
    easy. (My Openreach subcontractor ran away while the router was still
    booting itself).

    If you are not with BT of course, brace yourself, you are in for a rocky
    ride, and you may end up with no phone line for at least a week, maybe
    forever.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Wade@dave@g4ugm.invalid to uk.telecom on Sat May 2 17:30:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    On 02/05/2026 14:58, Richmond wrote:
    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/finance/news/nationwide-switch-digital-landlines-less-155331532.html

    Landlines are being upgraded she says, there will be no extra cost, and
    it's as easy as unplugging your phone and plugging it in again. BT will
    guide you, and support you. Keep your existing phone number. It's all
    easy. (My Openreach subcontractor ran away while the router was still
    booting itself).

    If you are not with BT of course, brace yourself, you are in for a rocky ride, and you may end up with no phone line for at least a week, maybe forever.

    I don't think the supplier matters. BT are as capable, indeed some may
    say more capable of fubar-ing any upgrade, downgrade or service change.

    Dave
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Wade@dave@g4ugm.invalid to uk.telecom on Sun May 3 16:05:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    On 03/05/2026 14:02, Richmond wrote:
    David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> writes:

    I don't think the supplier matters. BT are as capable, indeed some may
    say more capable of fubar-ing any upgrade, downgrade or service
    change.

    I am puzzled by the no extra cost bit, as for me there was the extra
    cost of fibre. Maybe if you have no broadband there is no extra cost.

    There is no extra cost to the phone service, which is rich as I believe
    it should be substantially cheaper. You might pay more for your
    internet, but there are low-cost low bandwidth fibre options so you
    could keep the total cost the same.


    Also if you just order a phone with no internet and fibre is available
    they will install fibre and not charge..
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to uk.telecom on Sun May 3 22:09:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    On 2026/5/3 13:1:26, Richmond wrote:
    If you live in some remote place in Scotland...

    https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/real-danger-landline-phone-users-060017407.html
    Uses the "more reliable digital landlines" claim again. I can't
    remember ever having any problem with my existing line - but plenty with
    my power.

    From https://digitalphoneswitchover.com/: "The change from analogue to
    digital will benefit everyone" - so far, I don't see it benefitting me.

    From <https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-and-broadband/landline-phones/future-of-landline-calls>:
    "If you are dependent on your landline phone rCo for example, if you donrCOt have a mobile phone or donrCOt have mobile signal at your home rCo your provider must offer you a solution to make sure you can contact the
    emergency services when a power cut occurs. For example, a mobile phone
    (if you have signal), or a battery back-up unit for your landline
    phone." *"for example, if you donrCOt have a mobile phone"* - that
    _states_ that just not having a mobile qualifies as being "dependent on
    your landline phone". And one of the things they can do is provide you
    with a mobile (if you have signal)?

    There are other statements in that last document that clash with what
    we've learnt - mainly confusion over what "dependent" means. Some that
    _don't_ even use the word.

    <https://www.gov.uk/guidance/telecommunications-modernisation-connectivity-timeline>:
    "All users of the Openreach PSTN will need to be migrated to new
    services by the 31 January 2027."
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    And on the question of authorship, I subscribe to the view that the
    plays were not in fact written by Shakespeare but by someone of the
    same name. - Hugh Bonneville (RT 2014/10/11-17)
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Wade@dave@g4ugm.invalid to uk.telecom on Mon May 4 09:19:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    On 03/05/2026 23:09, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/5/3 13:1:26, Richmond wrote:
    If you live in some remote place in Scotland...

    https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/real-danger-landline-phone-users-060017407.html
    Uses the "more reliable digital landlines" claim again. I can't
    remember ever having any problem with my existing line - but plenty with
    my power.

    From https://digitalphoneswitchover.com/: "The change from analogue to digital will benefit everyone" - so far, I don't see it benefitting me.

    From <https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-and-broadband/landline-phones/future-of-landline-calls>:
    "If you are dependent on your landline phone rCo for example, if you donrCOt have a mobile phone or donrCOt have mobile signal at your home rCo your provider must offer you a solution to make sure you can contact the
    emergency services when a power cut occurs. For example, a mobile phone
    (if you have signal), or a battery back-up unit for your landline
    phone." *"for example, if you donrCOt have a mobile phone"* - that
    _states_ that just not having a mobile qualifies as being "dependent on
    your landline phone". And one of the things they can do is provide you
    with a mobile (if you have signal)?

    There are other statements in that last document that clash with what
    we've learnt - mainly confusion over what "dependent" means. Some that _don't_ even use the word.

    <https://www.gov.uk/guidance/telecommunications-modernisation-connectivity-timeline>:
    "All users of the Openreach PSTN will need to be migrated to new
    services by the 31 January 2027."

    Well there are two items of note. The first is that as newer internet
    services no longer require a landline customers are ditching them as
    fast as they can, while the cost of maintaining the infrastructure is
    going up as it ages. So if the existing copper land lines were to be
    retained the price would have to rise substantially, at which point more customers would ditch them, so the price would rise again.

    The second is that BT/OpenReach don't own their exchanges, the sold them
    and lease them back. The leases run out in 2031 at which point the rents
    will rise substantially, so again anything that reduces the number of exchanges required is a good thing..

    .. so yes we are being lied too, because no one wants to try and explain
    that there simply is no money in fixed line telephones, and if the
    minority who still want one (the Guardian says only 47% of homes have
    one, while Zen estimates its 52% so a small majority) are forced to pay
    more the proportion would fall further, but really its a dead duck.

    I wonder what strategy you would adopt to retain copper landlines at an affordable cost?

    Dave

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richmond@dnomhcir@gmx.com to uk.telecom on Mon May 4 09:13:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> writes:


    Well there are two items of note. The first is that as newer internet services no longer require a landline customers are ditching them as
    fast as they can, while the cost of maintaining the infrastructure is
    going up as it ages. So if the existing copper land lines were to be
    retained the price would have to rise substantially, at which point
    more customers would ditch them, so the price would rise again.


    But the price rose substantially anyway for me, as I was told if I did
    not switch to fibre I would lose my internet and phone. The fibre was
    full fibre to the premises only, so I had to pay about 70% more. And
    this includes the supposed savings of VOIP. And I had to move to a
    different ISP and lose my phone for a week.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to uk.telecom on Mon May 4 14:31:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    Richmond wrote:

    the price rose substantially anyway for me, as I was told if I did
    not switch to fibre I would lose my internet and phone. The fibre was
    full fibre to the premises only, so I had to pay about 70% more.

    I've not got the option to migrate from FTTC to FTTP yet, but have moved
    from POTS to VoIP. I'm under the impression that the base FTTP price is
    the same as FTTC, did you pay 70% more because of being upsold to a
    faster version of full-fibre?

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richmond@dnomhcir@gmx.com to uk.telecom on Mon May 4 15:42:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:

    Richmond wrote:

    the price rose substantially anyway for me, as I was told if I did
    not switch to fibre I would lose my internet and phone. The fibre was
    full fibre to the premises only, so I had to pay about 70% more.

    I've not got the option to migrate from FTTC to FTTP yet, but have
    moved from POTS to VoIP. I'm under the impression that the base FTTP
    price is the same as FTTC, did you pay 70% more because of being
    upsold to a faster version of full-fibre?

    I paid 70% more because I had no choice, there was no other option. It
    was more like blackmail than up-selling. I've never had any cabinet, I
    was on an exchange only line.

    I think there is something going on here which gets lost in the usual discussions about what most people have and what's best for most
    people. Most people are on whatsapp and I would say that is not what is
    best for them. What we are talking about here is national
    infrastructure. It deserves better than Vodafone and the like.

    You may have noticed someone in the firefox group saying they couldn't
    reach a website. Nobody knew why. It was possible to work around it with
    VPN. That's the kind of thing which will happen with VOIP, it will stop working, no one will know why, no one will know who is responsible.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.telecom on Tue May 5 10:59:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom


    On 04/05/2026 15:42, Richmond wrote:
    You may have noticed someone in the firefox group saying they couldn't
    reach a website. Nobody knew why. It was possible to work around it with
    VPN. That's the kind of thing which will happen with VOIP, it will stop working, no one will know why, no one will know who is responsible.

    So pretty much like POTS then ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TUVeVvnsgE
    --
    Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
    guns, why should we let them have ideas?

    Josef Stalin

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From snipeco.2@snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) to uk.telecom on Tue May 5 23:23:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 04/05/2026 15:42, Richmond wrote:
    You may have noticed someone in the firefox group saying they couldn't reach a website. Nobody knew why. It was possible to work around it with VPN. That's the kind of thing which will happen with VOIP, it will stop working, no one will know why, no one will know who is responsible.

    So pretty much like POTS then ?

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TUVeVvnsgE>

    That was before Y2K, which also turned out to be a non-problem
    that fixed itself.
    --
    ^-^. Sn!pe, bird-brain. My pet rock Gordon just is.

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Trolleybus@ken@birchanger.com to uk.telecom on Wed May 6 09:35:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    On Tue, 5 May 2026 23:23:09 +0100, snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 04/05/2026 15:42, Richmond wrote:
    You may have noticed someone in the firefox group saying they couldn't
    reach a website. Nobody knew why. It was possible to work around it with >> > VPN. That's the kind of thing which will happen with VOIP, it will stop
    working, no one will know why, no one will know who is responsible.

    So pretty much like POTS then ?

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TUVeVvnsgE>

    That was before Y2K, which also turned out to be a non-problem
    that fixed itself.

    I know it's still the monring, but that's the most ill-informed
    statement I've read so far today, and I doubt it will be topped.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Woolley@david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid to uk.telecom on Wed May 6 16:34:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    On 05/05/2026 23:23, Sn!pe wrote:
    That was before Y2K, which also turned out to be a non-problem
    that fixed itself.

    I'm pretty sure that many thousands of man days went into fixing it;
    there was no automatic fixing, and it all needed to be planned and
    scheduled.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From snipeco.2@snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) to uk.telecom on Wed May 6 17:44:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:

    On 05/05/2026 23:23, Sn!pe wrote:
    That was before Y2K, which also turned out to be a non-problem
    that fixed itself.

    I'm pretty sure that many thousands of man days went into fixing it;
    there was no automatic fixing, and it all needed to be planned and scheduled.

    Yes. ree:o)
    --
    ^|A^. Sn!pe, bird-brain. My pet rock Gordon just is.

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From snipeco.2@snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) to uk.telecom on Wed May 6 17:48:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:

    On Tue, 5 May 2026 23:23:09 +0100, snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 04/05/2026 15:42, Richmond wrote:
    You may have noticed someone in the firefox group saying they couldn't >> > reach a website. Nobody knew why. It was possible to work around it with >> > VPN. That's the kind of thing which will happen with VOIP, it will stop >> > working, no one will know why, no one will know who is responsible.

    So pretty much like POTS then ?

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TUVeVvnsgE>

    That was before Y2K, which also turned out to be a non-problem
    that fixed itself.

    I know it's still the monring, but that's the most ill-informed
    statement I've read so far today, and I doubt it will be topped.

    It was a tongue in cheek joke. ree:o)
    --
    ^|A^. Sn!pe, bird-brain. My pet rock Gordon just is.

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.telecom on Wed May 6 17:51:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    On 06/05/2026 17:48, Sn!pe wrote:
    Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:

    On Tue, 5 May 2026 23:23:09 +0100, snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 04/05/2026 15:42, Richmond wrote:
    You may have noticed someone in the firefox group saying they couldn't >>>>> reach a website. Nobody knew why. It was possible to work around it with >>>>> VPN. That's the kind of thing which will happen with VOIP, it will stop >>>>> working, no one will know why, no one will know who is responsible.

    So pretty much like POTS then ?

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TUVeVvnsgE>

    That was before Y2K, which also turned out to be a non-problem
    that fixed itself.

    I know it's still the monring, but that's the most ill-informed
    statement I've read so far today, and I doubt it will be topped.

    It was a tongue in cheek joke. ree:o)

    Of course. Like the advert I referenced.
    --
    "Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace, community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
    "What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

    "Jeremy Corbyn?"


    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Wade@dave@g4ugm.invalid to uk.telecom on Wed May 6 19:13:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    On 06/05/2026 17:34, David Woolley wrote:
    On 05/05/2026 23:23, Sn!pe wrote:
    That was before Y2K, which also turned out to be a non-problem
    that fixed itself.

    I'm pretty sure that many thousands of man days went into fixing it;
    there was no automatic fixing, and it all needed to be planned and scheduled.

    If any one doubts work was needed, I suggest they download a non-y2k compliment operating system from archive.org and see what goes wrong...

    Dave
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Trolleybus@ken@birchanger.com to uk.telecom on Thu May 7 06:57:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    On Wed, 6 May 2026 17:48:26 +0100, snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

    Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:

    On Tue, 5 May 2026 23:23:09 +0100, snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 04/05/2026 15:42, Richmond wrote:
    You may have noticed someone in the firefox group saying they couldn't >> >> > reach a website. Nobody knew why. It was possible to work around it with
    VPN. That's the kind of thing which will happen with VOIP, it will stop >> >> > working, no one will know why, no one will know who is responsible.

    So pretty much like POTS then ?

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TUVeVvnsgE>

    That was before Y2K, which also turned out to be a non-problem
    that fixed itself.

    I know it's still the monring, but that's the most ill-informed
    statement I've read so far today, and I doubt it will be topped.

    It was a tongue in cheek joke. ?:o)

    Fair enough.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Jackson@jj@franjam.org.uk to uk.telecom on Thu May 7 11:26:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    On 2026-05-06, Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:
    Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:

    On Tue, 5 May 2026 23:23:09 +0100, snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 04/05/2026 15:42, Richmond wrote:
    You may have noticed someone in the firefox group saying they couldn't >> >> > reach a website. Nobody knew why. It was possible to work around it with
    VPN. That's the kind of thing which will happen with VOIP, it will stop >> >> > working, no one will know why, no one will know who is responsible.

    So pretty much like POTS then ?

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TUVeVvnsgE>

    That was before Y2K, which also turned out to be a non-problem
    that fixed itself.

    I know it's still the monring, but that's the most ill-informed
    statement I've read so far today, and I doubt it will be topped.

    It was a tongue in cheek joke. ???:o)


    I'm glad I read on before following up!!!! A bit touchy about it sorry -
    have had many an argument with a brother-in-law who insists it was a non-problem.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From snipeco.2@snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) to uk.telecom on Thu May 7 14:07:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> wrote:
    [...]
    That was before Y2K, which also turned out to be a non-problem
    that fixed itself.

    I know it's still the monring, but that's the most ill-informed
    statement I've read so far today, and I doubt it will be topped.


    It was a tongue in cheek joke. ree:o)


    I'm glad I read on before following up!!!! A bit touchy about it sorry -
    have had many an argument with a brother-in-law who insists it was a non-problem.


    Not a problem, Jim. An erstwhile poster acquaintance of mine in a
    now defunct group did a great deal of hard work on Y2K to make it
    a 'non-problem' so I do understand how you must feel about it.
    --
    ^|A^. Sn!pe, bird-brain. My pet rock Gordon just is.

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.telecom on Thu May 7 16:47:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom

    On 07/05/2026 14:07, Sn!pe wrote:
    Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> wrote:
    [...]
    That was before Y2K, which also turned out to be a non-problem
    that fixed itself.

    I know it's still the monring, but that's the most ill-informed
    statement I've read so far today, and I doubt it will be topped.


    It was a tongue in cheek joke. ree:o)


    I'm glad I read on before following up!!!! A bit touchy about it sorry -
    have had many an argument with a brother-in-law who insists it was a
    non-problem.


    Not a problem, Jim. An erstwhile poster acquaintance of mine in a
    now defunct group did a great deal of hard work on Y2K to make it
    a 'non-problem' so I do understand how you must feel about it.

    Our company made a shitload of money doing tests on Linux and Unix
    servers to satisfy customers who didn't seem to know that the unix
    system clock wraps around later this century...
    I am sure there were some BASIC or COBOL based apps where y2k was
    significant, but in a whole lot of cases there was no problem at all,
    you just had to have a piece of paper paid for and signed by someone
    saying there was no problem

    Like printing money...
    --
    The difference bweteen a psychopath and a saint is that the psychpoath
    takes what he can and gives only what he must, but the saint gives
    everything he can and takes only what he needs.



    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2