I just came across the 'handbook' on a Philips monitor that got some
years go.
They have managed to produce 58 page booklet which has every language
that I can think of (except perhaps Klingon).
All it tells you is how to change the batteries in the remote control
and a couple of very obvious warnings which I doubt that many read.
All it tells you is how to change the batteries in the remote
control and a couple of very obvious warnings which I doubt that
many read.
JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
I just came across the 'handbook' on a Philips monitor that got someThe safety warnings are to assist in not ending up in court.
years go.
They have managed to produce 58 page booklet which has every language
that I can think of (except perhaps Klingon).
All it tells you is how to change the batteries in the remote control
and a couple of very obvious warnings which I doubt that many read.
I was reading somewhere the other day that in the 1960s and 70s car
handbooks that came with the car, told how to gap the plugs, set the
points and even adjust the tappets. Now they tell you not to drink
the battery acid.
The safety warnings are to assist in not ending up in court.
In article <117drmq$do1v$1@dont-email.me>,
JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
All it tells you is how to change the batteries in the remote
control and a couple of very obvious warnings which I doubt that
many read.
I was reading somewhere the other day that in the 1960s and 70s car
handbooks that came with the car, told how to gap the plugs, set the
points and even adjust the tappets. Now they tell you not to drink
the battery acid.
In article <117drmq$do1v$1@dont-email.me>,
JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
All it tells you is how to change the batteries in the remote
control and a couple of very obvious warnings which I doubt that
many read.
I was reading somewhere the other day that in the 1960s and 70s car
handbooks that came with the car, told how to gap the plugs, set the
points and even adjust the tappets. Now they tell you not to drink
the battery acid.
Bob.
I was reading somewhere the other day that in the 1960s and 70s car
handbooks that came with the car, told how to gap the plugs, set the
points and even adjust the tappets. Now they tell you not to drink
the battery acid.
On 04/09/2026 10:30, Bob Latham wrote:
I was reading somewhere the other day that in the 1960s and 70s car
handbooks that came with the car, told how to gap the plugs, set the
points and even adjust the tappets. Now they tell you not to drink
the battery acid.
My new VW does not come with a handbook just a 'digital handbook'
online.-a You can access it on the screen in the car I think and you can download (when you find it) but it is not particularly printer friendly
as well as many hundreds of pages and no page numbers.
Also VW are hopeless at writing handbooks.
On 04/09/2026 10:30, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <117drmq$do1v$1@dont-email.me>,
JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
I was reading somewhere the other day that in the 1960s and 70s
car handbooks that came with the car, told how to gap the plugs,
set the points and even adjust the tappets. Now they tell you not
to drink the battery acid.
Why would a modern car manual contain such outdated info. Modern
cars are pretty much maintenance free. You needed to set the
tappets often, they wore. Modern cars have hydraulic tappets that
don't need setting. Plug gaps don't change and the have electronic
ignition so no points or timing.
On 2026-09-04 10:30, Bob Latham wrote:
I was reading somewhere the other day that in the 1960s and 70s car
handbooks that came with the car, told how to gap the plugs, set the
points and even adjust the tappets. Now they tell you not to drink
the battery acid.
Presumably for Donald Trump's benefit :-)
But as a matter of interest I downloaded the PDF manual for my car and searched for 'acid'.-a There are indeed no end of warnings of the obvious type such as do not let acid (in general, not specifically from the
battery, though that is the most obvious potential source) get on to the paintwork, seat belts, etc, and it does even say that it will corrode
your teeth and gums and if you should swallow some, seek immediate
medical help!
Which reminds of two humorous (one at my own expense) tales I've told before, but perhaps bear repeating ...
At uni, some friends sharing one of the accommodation flats ran out of washing up liquid when doing the chores after dinner, so took a cup next door to borrow some.-a They then went out on the town, got as drunk as
might be expected from the fact that they were, after all, students,
came back, made and drank some coffee, and went to bed.-a As is commonly
the case after a heavy drinking session, one of them woke in the middle
of the night, needing a piss and suffering from a raging thirst. Turning
on the cold tap at the sink, guess which cup he used to get himself a
drink ...
Remember the days when you were allowed to make yourself decent tea and coffee at work, before for 'safety reasons' offices removed all the
kettles, forcing you to drink the crap out of the drinks machines?
Once at work, when I had a particular problem I had been unable to
solve, I decided I needed a break and went and made myself a cup of
coffee, with a kettle.-a However, I was still mulling over the problem. There was a packet of something or other near the kettle which, at a
casual, absent-minded glance I took to be someone's medication that
they'd left.-a I boiled the water that was in the kettle, and made the coffee.-a Fortunately, the milk curdled as I put it in, so I assumed it
had gone sour, but there being no other, I took the first tentative sip
when still in the kitchen, so was able to spit it out and rinse my mouth
out immediately.-a Only then did I read the label on the packet. It said: "Kettle descaler"!
I wonder if I'm the sort of reason they removed all the kettles?
Why would a modern car manual contain such outdated info. Modern cars
are pretty much maintenance free.-a You needed to set the tappets often, they wore. Modern cars have hydraulic tappets that don't need setting.
Plug gaps don't change and the have electronic ignition so no points or timing.
Thats a bit odd. Just picked up a newish ID.4 and it has a paper manual
but I see on checking these are not available for all cars.
On 04/09/2026 12:11, David Wade wrote:
Why would a modern car manual contain such outdated info. Modern cars
are pretty much maintenance free.-a You needed to set the tappets
often, they wore. Modern cars have hydraulic tappets that don't need
setting. Plug gaps don't change and the have electronic ignition so no
points or timing.
But most cars will have lots of systems, some of which need a
description on how to operate them and many the drivers will possibly be unaware of.
I am not suggesting they should be an equivalent of the old Haynes manual.
On 04/09/2026 23:06, JMB99 wrote:
On 04/09/2026 12:11, David Wade wrote:As I said, they do. My ID.4 manual has lots of info on the car. I do remember on one of my previous cars being unable to work out how to
Why would a modern car manual contain such outdated info. Modern cars
are pretty much maintenance free.-a You needed to set the tappets
often, they wore. Modern cars have hydraulic tappets that don't need
setting. Plug gaps don't change and the have electronic ignition so no
points or timing.
But most cars will have lots of systems, some of which need a
description on how to operate them and many the drivers will possibly be
unaware of.
I am not suggesting they should be an equivalent of the old Haynes manual. >>
delete a character when entering a post code into the satnav. It had an on-screen keyboard and a knob that let you select a letter, but if you
made a mistake there was no back or delete on the keyboard. I later discovered you used the "back" button next to the knob.
I do find a fascination with obsolete skills strange. I oft see remarks
like "no one can change a plug", whilst its true, by law every appliance comes with moulded plug, most have a replaceable lead, so in the rare
event the plug is damaged, you just order a new one from Amazon and
weight in the old one for scrap copper.
So whilst its true that I can use a slide rule, hand punch a Hollerith
card, and change a rewirable fuse, remembering to wind the wire the
correct way round the screws, I can't see me using ever using these
skills in anger, so no point in anyone else learning them...
.. as for using a dial phone, well not exactly the same, but my good
lady is so used to her iPhone mobile, she struggles to remember how to
use our Panasonic DECT handsets, which for many years were our primary method of calling folks...
.. the world moves on...
Dave
On 04/09/2026 11:31, JMB99 wrote:
On 04/09/2026 10:30, Bob Latham wrote:
I was reading somewhere the other day that in the 1960s and 70s car
handbooks that came with the car, told how to gap the plugs, set the
points and even adjust the tappets. Now they tell you not to drink
the battery acid.
My new VW does not come with a handbook just a 'digital handbook'
online.-a You can access it on the screen in the car I think and you can
download (when you find it) but it is not particularly printer friendly
as well as many hundreds of pages and no page numbers.
Thats a bit odd. Just picked up a newish ID.4 and it has a paper manual
but I see on checking these are not available for all cars.
You can find the on-line manual here :-
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/owners-and-services/my-car/manuals.html
but you can only view online. It does not appear to be available as a
PDF download.
Also VW are hopeless at writing handbooks.I think they are all written by lawyers. My old Merc one had warnings on every page that pretty much said "Do this and you may crash the car"
As to other lost skills my other adult son had to ask me where you stick a stamp on an envelope.
David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
On 04/09/2026 23:06, JMB99 wrote:
On 04/09/2026 12:11, David Wade wrote:As I said, they do. My ID.4 manual has lots of info on the car. I do
Why would a modern car manual contain such outdated info. Modern cars
are pretty much maintenance free.-a You needed to set the tappets
often, they wore. Modern cars have hydraulic tappets that don't need
setting. Plug gaps don't change and the have electronic ignition so no >>>> points or timing.
But most cars will have lots of systems, some of which need a
description on how to operate them and many the drivers will possibly be >>> unaware of.
I am not suggesting they should be an equivalent of the old Haynes manual. >>>
remember on one of my previous cars being unable to work out how to
delete a character when entering a post code into the satnav. It had an
on-screen keyboard and a knob that let you select a letter, but if you
made a mistake there was no back or delete on the keyboard. I later
discovered you used the "back" button next to the knob.
I do find a fascination with obsolete skills strange. I oft see remarks
like "no one can change a plug", whilst its true, by law every appliance
comes with moulded plug, most have a replaceable lead, so in the rare
event the plug is damaged, you just order a new one from Amazon and
weight in the old one for scrap copper.
So whilst its true that I can use a slide rule, hand punch a Hollerith
card, and change a rewirable fuse, remembering to wind the wire the
correct way round the screws, I can't see me using ever using these
skills in anger, so no point in anyone else learning them...
.. as for using a dial phone, well not exactly the same, but my good
lady is so used to her iPhone mobile, she struggles to remember how to
use our Panasonic DECT handsets, which for many years were our primary
method of calling folks...
.. the world moves on...
Dave
Well there is an edge case for knowing how to wire a plug. My adult son was putting together a lamp on a wine bottle with one of those kits. That did require adding the plug as the flex needs to be threaded through a hole in the bottle. Here was his wiring rationale, which to be fair has some logic: Green/yellow - that looks exciting, must be live.
Brown - earthy colour must be Earth.
Fortunately the RCD tripped.
As to car manuals, thererCOs lots of information about the various driver assist, safety and infotainment systems that needs to be communicated. What annoys me is that the manual for my car is a 650 page monster. (PDF, but no objection to that). It covers every possible variant and option of that vehicle so itrCOs hard to work out what is relevant to your particular vehicle. Given that the vehicle is put together on a computer controlled line, it ought to be possible to have a website where you type in the VIN
to generate a pdf manual that matches the vehicle.
As to other lost skills my other adult son had to ask me where you stick a stamp on an envelope.
Bob Latham wrote:
My new VW does not come with a handbook just a 'digital handbook'
online.-a You can access it on the screen in the car I think and you can download (when you find it) but it is not particularly printer friendly
as well as many hundreds of pages and no page numbers.
Also VW are hopeless at writing handbooks.
On 04/09/2026 10:30, Bob Latham wrote:
I was reading somewhere the other day that in the 1960s and 70s car
handbooks that came with the car, told how to gap the plugs, set the
points and even adjust the tappets. Now they tell you not to drink
the battery acid.
My new VW does not come with a handbook just a 'digital handbook'
online.-a You can access it on the screen in the car I think and you can download (when you find it) but it is not particularly printer friendly
as well as many hundreds of pages and no page numbers.
Also VW are hopeless at writing handbooks.
On 04/09/2026 12:18, David Wade wrote:
Thats a bit odd. Just picked up a newish ID.4 and it has a paper
manual but I see on checking these are not available for all cars.
The TROC has a booklet of a few dozen pages with very little useful information in it.
On 04/09/2026 10:30, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <117drmq$do1v$1@dont-email.me>,
-a-a-a JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
All it tells you is how to change the batteries in the remote
control and a couple of very obvious warnings which I doubt that
many read.
I was reading somewhere the other day that in the 1960s and 70s car
handbooks that came with the car, told how to gap the plugs, set the
points and even adjust the tappets. Now they tell you not to drink
the battery acid.
"Re-assemble in reverse order."
On 04/09/2026 12:11, David Wade wrote:
Why would a modern car manual contain such outdated info. Modern cars
are pretty much maintenance free.-a You needed to set the tappets
often, they wore. Modern cars have hydraulic tappets that don't need
setting. Plug gaps don't change and the have electronic ignition so no
points or timing.
But most cars will have lots of systems, some of which need a
description on how to operate them and many the drivers will possibly be unaware of.
I am not suggesting they should be an equivalent of the old Haynes manual.
As I said, they do. My ID.4 manual has lots of info on the car. I do remember on one of my previous cars being unable to work out how to
delete a character when entering a post code into the satnav.
On 04/09/2026 23:06, JMB99 wrote:
On 04/09/2026 12:11, David Wade wrote:
Why would a modern car manual contain such outdated info. Modern cars
are pretty much maintenance free.-a You needed to set the tappets
often, they wore. Modern cars have hydraulic tappets that don't need
setting. Plug gaps don't change and the have electronic ignition so
no points or timing.
But most cars will have lots of systems, some of which need a
description on how to operate them and many the drivers will possibly
be unaware of.
I am not suggesting they should be an equivalent of the old Haynes
manual.
But the old Haynes manuals often referred to a picture that looked
nothing like what you were looking at after following the previous instruction. :)
Not as bad as Toyota ... showing LHD control placement in manuals for
RHD cars (and don't forget Japan *is* an RHD country).
I do find a fascination with obsolete skills strange. I oft see remarks like "no<snip>
one can change a plug", whilst its true, by law every appliance comes with >moulded plug, most have a replaceable lead, so in the rare event the plug is >damaged, you just order a new one from Amazon and weight in the old one for >scrap copper.
I was very glad when it ceased to be necessary to wire a plug. As
someone who is very maladroit, it was a struggle, and I was always
worried that I might have done it incorrectly, with possible dire
results for the piece of equipment or the mains fuse.
On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 20:40:03 +0100, John Hall <john@jhall.co.uk> wrote:Yes but does he remember what the wire colours mean?
I was very glad when it ceased to be necessary to wire a plug. As
someone who is very maladroit, it was a struggle, and I was always
worried that I might have done it incorrectly, with possible dire
results for the piece of equipment or the mains fuse.
If you look carefully, you will see that the letters L N and E are
moulded into the plastic, and new ones are often supplied with a
little piece of cardboard with a diagram showing the colours.
Rod.
On 07/09/2026 09:00, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 20:40:03 +0100, John Hall <john@jhall.co.uk> wrote:Yes but does he remember what the wire colours mean?
I was very glad when it ceased to be necessary to wire a plug. As
someone who is very maladroit, it was a struggle, and I was always
worried that I might have done it incorrectly, with possible dire
results for the piece of equipment or the mains fuse.
If you look carefully, you will see that the letters L N and E are
moulded into the plastic, and new ones are often supplied with a
little piece of cardboard with a diagram showing the colours.
Rod.
On Mon, 7 Sep 2026 12:12:28 +0100, Dave W <davewi11@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
On 07/09/2026 09:00, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 20:40:03 +0100, John Hall <john@jhall.co.uk> wrote:Yes but does he remember what the wire colours mean?
I was very glad when it ceased to be necessary to wire a plug. As
someone who is very maladroit, it was a struggle, and I was always
worried that I might have done it incorrectly, with possible dire
results for the piece of equipment or the mains fuse.
If you look carefully, you will see that the letters L N and E are
moulded into the plastic, and new ones are often supplied with a
little piece of cardboard with a diagram showing the colours.
Rod.
There are only three of them and they're in every home. How difficult
can it be? It's not like being a professional who has to remember the resistor colour code and wiring codes like Blue, Orange, Green, Brown,
Slate, and then White, Red, Black, Yellow, Violet.
Not only are there just three colours to remember,
On 08/09/2026 08:54, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Mon, 7 Sep 2026 12:12:28 +0100, Dave W <davewi11@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
On 07/09/2026 09:00, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 20:40:03 +0100, John Hall <john@jhall.co.uk> wrote: >>>>Yes but does he remember what the wire colours mean?
I was very glad when it ceased to be necessary to wire a plug. As
someone who is very maladroit, it was a struggle, and I was always
worried that I might have done it incorrectly, with possible dire
results for the piece of equipment or the mains fuse.
If you look carefully, you will see that the letters L N and E are
moulded into the plastic, and new ones are often supplied with a
little piece of cardboard with a diagram showing the colours.
Rod.
There are only three of them and they're in every home. How difficult
can it be? It's not like being a professional who has to remember the
resistor colour code and wiring codes like Blue, Orange, Green, Brown,
Slate, and then White, Red, Black, Yellow, Violet.
Not only are there just three colours to remember,
Three? Red, black and what?
Two's quite enough.
There are only three of them and they're in every home. How difficult
can it be? It's not like being a professional who has to remember the resistor colour code and wiring codes like Blue, Orange, Green, Brown,
Slate, and then White, Red, Black, Yellow, Violet.
Not only are there just three colours to remember, but your life can
quite literally depend on getting them right. You'd think it would be
worth the effort.
New appliances and mains plugs intended for you to fit yourself are
supposed to come with a wiring diagram safety card fitted round the pins. That card shows how to wire the plug and also details the colour of the wires.
I am still trying to work out the logic behind the new one's speedlimiter.
JMB99 wrote:
I am still trying to work out the logic behind the new one's speedlimiter.
Several times I have struggled to get the various speed limiter/cruise control/radar cruise modes to engage.-a Sometimes it flashes-up a
paragraph of tiny text on the dash as an explanation ... as if I'm going
to take my eyes off the road to read that ...
On 2026-09-08 13:51, Andy Burns wrote:
JMB99 wrote:
I am still trying to work out the logic behind the new one's speedlimiter.
Several times I have struggled to get the various speed
limiter/cruise control/radar cruise modes to engage.-a Sometimes it flashes-up a paragraph of tiny text on the dash as an explanation
... as if I'm going to take my eyes off the road to read that ...
Well ... that would have a higher than average chance of limiting
your speed! :-)
On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 20:40:03 +0100, John Hall <john@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
I was very glad when it ceased to be necessary to wire a plug. As
someone who is very maladroit, it was a struggle, and I was always
worried that I might have done it incorrectly, with possible dire
results for the piece of equipment or the mains fuse.
If you look carefully, you will see that the letters L N and E are
moulded into the plastic, and new ones are often supplied with a
little piece of cardboard with a diagram showing the colours.
Rod.
In article <117drmq$do1v$1@dont-email.me>,
JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
All it tells you is how to change the batteries in the remote
control and a couple of very obvious warnings which I doubt that
many read.
I was reading somewhere the other day that in the 1960s and 70s car
handbooks that came with the car, told how to gap the plugs, set the
points and even adjust the tappets. Now they tell you not to drink
the battery acid.
Bob.
Java Jive wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
explanation ... as if I'm going to take my eyes off the road toSometimes it flashes-up a paragraph of tiny text on the dash as an
read that ...
Well ... that would have a higher than average chance of limiting
your speed! :-)
Maybe it thinks you have a helmet with onboard graphics.
Have you tried shouting at it? Even if it doesn't work, it might make
you feel better.
The sale of equipment without a plug is now restricted.
https://www.morvantrading.co.uk/uk-plugs-must-be-factory-fitted/
So most people never have to fit a plug which makes them completely >unfamiliar with wire colours.
On Tue, 8 Sep 2026 10:02:49 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
The sale of equipment without a plug is now restricted.
https://www.morvantrading.co.uk/uk-plugs-must-be-factory-fitted/
So most people never have to fit a plug which makes them completely
unfamiliar with wire colours.
I'm evidently one of a dying breed, drowning in an ever encroaching
sea of ignorance and incompetence, whilst the practical knowledge
we've built up over a lifetime gradually becomes increasingly useless.
I can still remember - for example - the pin connections for an HL2
triode valve, but it's unlikely I'll ever use this knowledge again.
Rod.
New appliances and mains plugs intended for you to fit yourself are
supposed to come with a wiring diagram safety card fitted round the pins. That card shows how to wire the plug and also details the colour of the wires.
On 08/09/2026 09:13, Tweed wrote:
New appliances and mains plugs intended for you to fit yourself are
supposed to come with a wiring diagram safety card fitted round the pins.
That card shows how to wire the plug and also details the colour of the
wires.
I have had to wire removable plugs onto several appliances in the
kitchen when the cable has been fed through a cable-sized hole in the kitchen cabinets. For example, the socket for the dishwasher is inside a cupboard that is alongside the gap where the dishwasher goes. Maybe the previous owners of our house had it done like that to keep the mains
socket separate from the water supply and drain hose.
The dishwasher that was already in the house had had the moulded plug
cut off and a removable one fitted in its place after the cable had been
fed through the hole in the cabinet. When we had to replace that
dishwasher, I chose to make up my own short extension lead (wire a plug
on one end and a socket on the other, with the cupboards wall in
between) so as to preserve the moulded on plug, because some appliance manufacturers say that replacing the plug voids the whole warranty.
I hope I did a textbook job of cutting the wires to the correct lengths,
so the live and neutral wires are shorter than the earth so if the cable
is yanked hard, L and N detach before E. And I twisted the strands of
the wires and pared back only just enough to allow the wire, folded back
on itself, to fit into the hole in the pin, without protruding beyond
the far side or leaving exposed wire between pin and insulation. And
then I screwed the cable clamp and proved that tugging on the cable did
not cause it to pull on the wires.
I know the old red/black/green and new brown/blue/green-and-yellow wire colours (LNE, in that order). I'm not so familiar with fuse colours, so
I always check the number (3 or 13 amp) to be certain. I do a quick calculation to make sure that I only use a 13 A fuse for an appliance
that actually needs it.
On 13/09/2026 21:28, NY wrote:
I know the old red/black/green and new brown/blue/green-and-yellow
wire colours (LNE, in that order). I'm not so familiar with fuse
colours, so I always check the number (3 or 13 amp) to be certain. I
do a quick calculation to make sure that I only use a 13 A fuse for an
appliance that actually needs it.
Realistically, your made up plug to socket cable can be fused at 13A
because whatever you plug into it will have a moulded on plug with the correct fuse rating for the device.-a That will save you having to worry about the fuse rating in your extension lead.
On 2026-09-14 09:46, Indy Jess John wrote:
On 13/09/2026 21:28, NY wrote:
I know the old red/black/green and new brown/blue/green-and-yellow
wire colours (LNE, in that order). I'm not so familiar with fuse
colours, so I always check the number (3 or 13 amp) to be certain. I
do a quick calculation to make sure that I only use a 13 A fuse for
an appliance that actually needs it.
Realistically, your made up plug to socket cable can be fused at 13A
because whatever you plug into it will have a moulded on plug with the
correct fuse rating for the device.-a That will save you having to
worry about the fuse rating in your extension lead.
NOT NECESSARILY TRUE!-a The purpose of the plug fuse is to protect everything beyond it, which includes the extension cable that NY built
as he described.-a If he used 13A rated cable to make up the extension,
then yes, a 13A fuse would be fine, but if he only used, say, 5A rated cable, then a 5A plug fuse would be required to protect it, if 3A rated cable, a 3A fuse, and so on.
NOT NECESSARILY TRUE! The purpose of the plug fuse is to protect
everything beyond it, which includes the extension cable that NY
built as he described.
If he used 13A rated cable to make up the
extension, then yes, a 13A fuse would be fine, but if he only
used, say, 5A rated cable, then a 5A plug fuse would be required
to protect it, if 3A rated cable, a 3A fuse, and so on.
In article <1188e76$1ckr7$1@dont-email.me>,
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
NOT NECESSARILY TRUE! The purpose of the plug fuse is to protect
everything beyond it, which includes the extension cable that NY
built as he described.
I almost agree. The single purpose of the fuse in a plug is to
protect the cable that follows it, NOT the appliance. If the
appliance needs protection the manufacturer should add that to
the appliance.
On 2026-09-14 19:07, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <1188e76$1ckr7$1@dont-email.me>,
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
NOT NECESSARILY TRUE! The purpose of the plug fuse is to protect
everything beyond it, which includes the extension cable that NY
built as he described.
I almost agree. The single purpose of the fuse in a plug is to
protect the cable that follows it, NOT the appliance. If the
appliance needs protection the manufacturer should add that to
the appliance.
No, the purpose of the plug fuse is as I stated, to protect EVERYTHING
that lies beyond it:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+purpose+of+the+fuse+in+an+english+mains+plug>
If manufacturers wish to provide additional protection to any given appliance to prevent avoidable damage to sensitive and perhaps expensive equipment, potentially including damage caused by the user supplying the wrong plug fuse, then of course that is their choice. AFAIAA, although there may be specific types of appliance where regulations stipulate
some sort of extra protection, generally speaking it isn't required by
law. For example, in a bedside lamp, you don't find an additional fuse between the cable from the plug and the actual light bulb.
On 2026-09-14 19:07, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <1188e76$1ckr7$1@dont-email.me>,
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
NOT NECESSARILY TRUE! The purpose of the plug fuse is to protect
everything beyond it, which includes the extension cable that NY
built as he described.
I almost agree. The single purpose of the fuse in a plug is to
protect the cable that follows it, NOT the appliance. If the
appliance needs protection the manufacturer should add that to
the appliance.
No, the purpose of the plug fuse is as I stated, to protect
EVERYTHING that lies beyond it:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+purpose+of+the+fuse+in+an+english+mains+plug>
If manufacturers wish to provide additional protection to any given
appliance to prevent avoidable damage to sensitive and perhaps
expensive equipment, potentially including damage caused by the
user supplying the wrong plug fuse, then of course that is their
choice. AFAIAA, although there may be specific types of appliance
where regulations stipulate some sort of extra protection,
generally speaking it isn't required by law. For example, in a
bedside lamp, you don't find an additional fuse between the cable
from the plug and the actual light bulb.
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-09-14 19:07, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <1188e76$1ckr7$1@dont-email.me>,
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
NOT NECESSARILY TRUE! The purpose of the plug fuse is to protect
everything beyond it, which includes the extension cable that NY
built as he described.
I almost agree. The single purpose of the fuse in a plug is to
protect the cable that follows it, NOT the appliance. If the
appliance needs protection the manufacturer should add that to
the appliance.
No, the purpose of the plug fuse is as I stated, to protect EVERYTHING
that lies beyond it:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+purpose+of+the+fuse+in+an+english+mains+plug>
If manufacturers wish to provide additional protection to any given
appliance to prevent avoidable damage to sensitive and perhaps expensive
equipment, potentially including damage caused by the user supplying the
wrong plug fuse, then of course that is their choice. AFAIAA, although
there may be specific types of appliance where regulations stipulate
some sort of extra protection, generally speaking it isn't required by
law. For example, in a bedside lamp, you don't find an additional fuse
between the cable from the plug and the actual light bulb.
We worry too much about the correct plug fuse. Most domestic continental plugs are unfused and connect to a radial main fused at 16A at the consumer unit.
We worry too much about the correct plug fuse. Most domestic
continental plugs are unfused and connect to a radial main fused at
16A at the consumer unit.
On 15/09/2026 06:34, Tweed wrote:
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-09-14 19:07, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <1188e76$1ckr7$1@dont-email.me>,
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
NOT NECESSARILY TRUE! The purpose of the plug fuse is to protect
everything beyond it, which includes the extension cable that NY
built as he described.
I almost agree. The single purpose of the fuse in a plug is to
protect the cable that follows it, NOT the appliance. If the
appliance needs protection the manufacturer should add that to
the appliance.
No, the purpose of the plug fuse is as I stated, to protect EVERYTHING
that lies beyond it:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+purpose+of+the+fuse+in+an+english+mains+plug>
If manufacturers wish to provide additional protection to any given
appliance to prevent avoidable damage to sensitive and perhaps expensive >>> equipment, potentially including damage caused by the user supplying the >>> wrong plug fuse, then of course that is their choice. AFAIAA, although
there may be specific types of appliance where regulations stipulate
some sort of extra protection, generally speaking it isn't required by
law. For example, in a bedside lamp, you don't find an additional fuse
between the cable from the plug and the actual light bulb.
We worry too much about the correct plug fuse. Most domestic continental
plugs are unfused and connect to a radial main fused at 16A at the consumer >> unit.
What you should be worried about is an insurance company not paying out
for fire damage because they discovered an incorrect value fuse was
being used, and a cable or the equipment being used overloaded and
caught fire.
What you should be worried about is an insurance company not paying out
for fire damage because they discovered an incorrect value fuse was
being used, and a cable or the equipment being used overloaded and
caught fire.
In article <118alds$25nv0$1@dont-email.me>,
We worry too much about the correct plug fuse. Most domestic
continental plugs are unfused and connect to a radial main fused at
16A at the consumer unit.
Did you know that cables can and do catch fire which have the correct
limit breaker feeding them? The reason is long cables. Some cables at
length have enough resistance such that a near dead short at the far
end will not pass sufficient current to blow the breaker.
Spurs off ring main finals that are the same thickness as the ring
cables can sail very close to the wind on this if the run is quite
long like out to a garage or something. You have half the current
capability of the ring and the breaker is set for the ring.
I'm told it's a common problem in factories due to cable lengths used.
Bob.
In article <1189mtv$1t36k$1@dont-email.me>,
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-09-14 19:07, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <1188e76$1ckr7$1@dont-email.me>,
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
NOT NECESSARILY TRUE! The purpose of the plug fuse is to protect
everything beyond it, which includes the extension cable that NY
built as he described.
I almost agree. The single purpose of the fuse in a plug is to
protect the cable that follows it, NOT the appliance. If the
appliance needs protection the manufacturer should add that to
the appliance.
No, the purpose of the plug fuse is as I stated, to protect
EVERYTHING that lies beyond it:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+purpose+of+the+fuse+in+an+english+mains+plug>
If manufacturers wish to provide additional protection to any given
appliance to prevent avoidable damage to sensitive and perhaps
expensive equipment, potentially including damage caused by the
user supplying the wrong plug fuse, then of course that is their
choice. AFAIAA, although there may be specific types of appliance
where regulations stipulate some sort of extra protection,
generally speaking it isn't required by law. For example, in a
bedside lamp, you don't find an additional fuse between the cable
from the plug and the actual light bulb.
Until recent years, the vast majority of plug fuses in UK homes were
13amp because most people are too ignorant to know it's wrong. My
wife worked in an office where the considered wisdom was that 13 amp
were the best quality, I kid you not.
A 13amp fuse will do nothing to protect the vast majority of items
people plug in.
[Bullshit snipped]
Triggered?
Which reinforces my point. As I've already given examples of
upthread, anyone with any electrical knowledge has encountered
similar things for themselves.
In article <118b3it$2actl$1@dont-email.me>,
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
Which reinforces my point. As I've already given examples of
upthread, anyone with any electrical knowledge has encountered
similar things for themselves.
A measly 3 amp plug fuse will enable over 700 watts in the appliance.
Do explain what appliance has a cable suitable for a 3a fuse and
could tolerate up to 700 watts without being destroyed?
A table lamp?
A set top box? a door bell? a phone charger?--
What nonsense. It can't protect any of them, it's for the cable.
There are only three of them and they're in every home. How difficult
can it be?
It's not like being a professional who has to remember the
resistor colour code and wiring codes like Blue, Orange, Green, Brown,
Slate, and then White, Red, Black, Yellow, Violet.
Not only are there just three colours to remember, but your life can
quite literally depend on getting them right. You'd think it would be
worth the effort.
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