• time to ditch the countdown

    From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to uk.tech.broadcast on Tue Feb 24 17:06:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    Often, before the hour on the news channel, there's an on-screen
    countdown. (With two digits after the colon; used to be a frame count,
    but now a fake [because it can't be] centiseconds.)
    But what's it counting down to? Even allowing for differing processing
    delays in different receivers, it's to a point about five seconds after
    the hour (I don't think the processing delay is that much). So why
    bother with it? Combined with the age of some of the clips included
    (they did eventually remove the clip of the space shuttle on a 747, but
    only decades after its time!), it seems anachronistic at best,
    misleading (in case anyone sets their clock from it) at worst.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Williamson@johnwilliamson@btinternet.com to uk.tech.broadcast on Tue Feb 24 19:30:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 24/02/2026 17:06, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    Often, before the hour on the news channel, there's an on-screen
    countdown. (With two digits after the colon; used to be a frame count,
    but now a fake [because it can't be] centiseconds.)

    But what's it counting down to? Even allowing for differing processing
    delays in different receivers, it's to a point about five seconds after
    the hour (I don't think the processing delay is that much). So why
    bother with it? Combined with the age of some of the clips included
    (they did eventually remove the clip of the space shuttle on a 747, but
    only decades after its time!), it seems anachronistic at best,
    misleading (in case anyone sets their clock from it) at worst.

    I have always assumed that was purely an artistic thing, not an accurate countdown.

    No time reference on any of the digital broadcasting services can be
    counted on anyway, unless you are extracting the time from the frame
    metadata. Have you checked the time differences between the pips on
    Radio 4 FM and those on DAB or Freeview?
    --
    Tciao for Now!

    John.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From NY@me@privacy.net to uk.tech.broadcast on Tue Feb 24 19:38:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 24/02/2026 19:30, John Williamson wrote:
    No time reference on any of the digital broadcasting services can be
    counted on anyway, unless you are extracting the time from the frame metadata. Have you checked the time differences between the pips on
    Radio 4 FM and those on DAB or Freeview?

    I am always surprised at the time delay between terrestrial/satellite broadcast on the one hand and live video on the BBC News website on the
    other hand. I can understand delays of a couple of seconds (eg between terrestrial and satellite) but BBC News video is sometimes delayed by a
    minute or more. That's a hell of a lot of buffering and
    encoding/decoding delays.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From liz@liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) to uk.tech.broadcast on Tue Feb 24 22:37:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

    On 24/02/2026 19:30, John Williamson wrote:
    No time reference on any of the digital broadcasting services can be counted on anyway, unless you are extracting the time from the frame metadata. Have you checked the time differences between the pips on
    Radio 4 FM and those on DAB or Freeview?

    I am always surprised at the time delay between terrestrial/satellite broadcast on the one hand and live video on the BBC News website on the
    other hand. I can understand delays of a couple of seconds (eg between terrestrial and satellite) but BBC News video is sometimes delayed by a minute or more. That's a hell of a lot of buffering and
    encoding/decoding delays.

    Is it to prevent obscenities being broadcast live?
    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From NY@me@privacy.net to uk.tech.broadcast on Tue Feb 24 23:21:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 24/02/2026 22:37, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

    On 24/02/2026 19:30, John Williamson wrote:
    No time reference on any of the digital broadcasting services can be
    counted on anyway, unless you are extracting the time from the frame
    metadata. Have you checked the time differences between the pips on
    Radio 4 FM and those on DAB or Freeview?

    I am always surprised at the time delay between terrestrial/satellite
    broadcast on the one hand and live video on the BBC News website on the
    other hand. I can understand delays of a couple of seconds (eg between
    terrestrial and satellite) but BBC News video is sometimes delayed by a
    minute or more. That's a hell of a lot of buffering and
    encoding/decoding delays.

    Is it to prevent obscenities being broadcast live?

    Fair enough, but why only for the web site and not for the broadcast TV? Curious.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to uk.tech.broadcast on Wed Feb 25 00:01:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    Often, before the hour on the news channel, there's an on-screen
    countdown. (With two digits after the colon; used to be a frame count,
    but now a fake [because it can't be] centiseconds.)

    But what's it counting down to? Even allowing for differing processing
    delays in different receivers, it's to a point about five seconds after
    the hour (I don't think the processing delay is that much). So why
    bother with it? Combined with the age of some of the clips included
    (they did eventually remove the clip of the space shuttle on a 747, but
    only decades after its time!), it seems anachronistic at best,
    misleading (in case anyone sets their clock from it) at worst.

    It's filler. Due to cutbacks, BBC News 24 was merged with BBC World News, which means that the same studio produces a feed for the UK and an international feed.

    In other countries, they have advert breaks. In the UK, there are segments which cover for where the ads would be. Some of them are more obvious than others.

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From JMB99@mb@nospam.net to uk.tech.broadcast on Wed Feb 25 08:32:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 25/02/2026 00:01, Theo wrote:
    In other countries, they have advert breaks. In the UK, there are segments which cover for where the ads would be. Some of them are more obvious than others.


    Hasn't that been the case for years?

    The 'usual suspects' would soon start moaning if they had two completely separate teams producing almost identical news services.

    It is better than having to watch adverts, usually the same adverts
    repeated endlessly.

    American salaries are sometimes higher so I often wonder about the
    overnight US presenters but perhaps they find having worked for BBC
    looks good on their CV or they just prefer working for the BBC?





    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to uk.tech.broadcast on Wed Feb 25 12:31:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 2026/2/24 19:30:22, John Williamson wrote:
    []

    I have always assumed that was purely an artistic thing, not an accurate countdown.

    Yes, it seems to be. Especially since they abandoned frame count for centiseconds.

    No time reference on any of the digital broadcasting services can be
    counted on anyway, unless you are extracting the time from the frame metadata. Have you checked the time differences between the pips on
    Radio 4 FM and those on DAB or Freeview?

    I think I heard/read somewhere that they try to get the FM one
    reasonably accurate (within processing delays in the receiver).
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Science fiction is escape into reality - Arthur C Clarke
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to uk.tech.broadcast on Wed Feb 25 12:34:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 2026/2/25 0:1:13, Theo wrote:
    []
    It's filler. Due to cutbacks, BBC News 24 was merged with BBC World News, which means that the same studio produces a feed for the UK and an international feed.

    In other countries, they have advert breaks. In the UK, there are segments which cover for where the ads would be. Some of them are more obvious than others.

    And clumsily done. The countdown is fair, but sometimes they show (us) a succession of headlines - usually white on red - during what's obviously
    an ad. break, but obviously don't monitor it, because frequently they've
    just switched to another headline and then stop that feed before you've
    had a chance to read more than two words of it.

    Theo

    John
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Science fiction is escape into reality - Arthur C Clarke
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Williamson@johnwilliamson@btinternet.com to uk.tech.broadcast on Wed Feb 25 16:07:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 25/02/2026 12:31, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/2/24 19:30:22, John Williamson wrote:

    No time reference on any of the digital broadcasting services can be
    counted on anyway, unless you are extracting the time from the frame
    metadata. Have you checked the time differences between the pips on
    Radio 4 FM and those on DAB or Freeview?

    I think I heard/read somewhere that they try to get the FM one
    reasonably accurate (within processing delays in the receiver).

    There is no delay in my receiver, it is 100% analogue. (Okay, a few microseconds plus a milliseocnd a foot from the speaker to my ears)

    The delay between the studio and the transmitters should be predictable,
    as they have complete control over the processing.

    The only easily available, accurate time reference nowadays is a GPS
    receiver, and a good one will even allow for the speed of light delay
    from the satellites.
    --
    Tciao for Now!

    John.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From James Heaton@heatonandmoore@gmail.com to uk.tech.broadcast on Wed Feb 25 20:43:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 25/02/2026 12:31, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/2/24 19:30:22, John Williamson wrote:
    []

    I have always assumed that was purely an artistic thing, not an accurate
    countdown.

    Yes, it seems to be. Especially since they abandoned frame count for centiseconds.

    No time reference on any of the digital broadcasting services can be
    counted on anyway, unless you are extracting the time from the frame
    metadata. Have you checked the time differences between the pips on
    Radio 4 FM and those on DAB or Freeview?

    I think I heard/read somewhere that they try to get the FM one
    reasonably accurate (within processing delays in the receiver).

    It used to drive my father mad that the Roberts FM in the kitchen was
    out of sync with the Freeview in the living room for R4.

    Got to the point where he put a stool in the kitchen (he couldn't stand
    up much in later life) so he could stay there until The Archers finished!

    (The Roberts is now in my bedroom. About 20yrs old and still working beautifully - may well outlast AM/FM)

    James
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From NY@me@privacy.net to uk.tech.broadcast on Thu Feb 26 00:04:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 25/02/2026 16:07, John Williamson wrote:
    On 25/02/2026 12:31, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/2/24 19:30:22, John Williamson wrote:

    No time reference on any of the digital broadcasting services can be
    counted on anyway, unless you are extracting the time from the frame
    metadata. Have you checked the time differences between the pips on
    Radio 4 FM and those on DAB or Freeview?

    I think I heard/read somewhere that they try to get the FM one
    reasonably accurate (within processing delays in the receiver).

    There is no delay in my receiver, it is 100% analogue. (Okay, a few microseconds plus a millisecond a foot from the speaker to my ears)

    The delay between the studio and the transmitters should be predictable,
    as they have complete control over the processing.

    The only easily available, accurate time reference nowadays is a GPS receiver, and a good one will even allow for the speed of light delay
    from the satellites.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dwUWtyRP4c is a demo of the speed of
    sound in air versus the live broadcast (on FM, not DAB!) - done by Vikki
    Pipe of All The Stations fame.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From NY@me@privacy.net to uk.tech.broadcast on Thu Feb 26 00:25:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 25/02/2026 08:32, JMB99 wrote:
    It is better than having to watch adverts, usually the same adverts
    repeated endlessly.
    Anything, apart from root canal dental work or (for women) childbirth,
    is better than watching adverts. Certainly modern adverts. I'll make an exception for the older "classic" adverts such as "For Mash get Smash"
    with the Martians, "Graded grains make finer flour", "I were right about
    that saddle" / "Fly-Fishing by J R Hartley" (Yellow Pages) (*).


    (*) My A Level physics teacher was called J R Hartley. He'd just got
    over being nicknamed Hartley Hare when Yellow Pages did the dirty on him
    and ran their fly-fishing advert.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Williamson@johnwilliamson@btinternet.com to uk.tech.broadcast on Thu Feb 26 08:38:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 26/02/2026 00:04, NY wrote:
    On 25/02/2026 16:07, John Williamson wrote:

    The only easily available, accurate time reference nowadays is a GPS
    receiver, and a good one will even allow for the speed of light delay
    from the satellites.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dwUWtyRP4c is a demo of the speed of
    sound in air versus the live broadcast (on FM, not DAB!) - done by Vikki
    Pipe of All The Stations fame.

    I have done that experiment myself....
    --
    Tciao for Now!

    John.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From JMB99@mb@nospam.net to uk.tech.broadcast on Thu Feb 26 09:57:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast


    The only easily available, accurate time reference nowadays is a GPS receiver, and a good one will even allow for the speed of light delay
    from the satellites.


    Doesn't DCF77 add a correction factor when the standby transmitter site
    is in use?

    I like correct time but some people seem to be a bit paranoid about
    needing far great accuracy than they are actually going to notice.

    I have a DCF77 and a MSF alarm clock, most of the time I tend to use
    them if I want to set / check my watch because they have decent sized
    displays and they show seconds, the MSF also displays how long since the
    last update.

    Before I retired I occasionally checked against our rack mounted GPS
    receivers but that was just for my own amusement.





    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Williamson@johnwilliamson@btinternet.com to uk.tech.broadcast on Thu Feb 26 10:27:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 26/02/2026 09:57, JMB99 wrote:

    The only easily available, accurate time reference nowadays is a GPS
    receiver, and a good one will even allow for the speed of light delay
    from the satellites.


    Doesn't DCF77 add a correction factor when the standby transmitter site
    is in use?

    Possibly, but any speed of light correction at the receiver requires it
    to know how far it is from the transmitter by whatever the transmission
    path is at the time.

    A GPS receiver can calculate not only where it is, but where the
    satellites were at the appropriate time, so the correction is easy to
    work out.

    You can buy a GPS receiver with a DCF77 emulation mode...

    I like correct time but some people seem to be a bit paranoid about
    needing far great accuracy than they are actually going to notice.

    I used to be paranoid about how close my watch was to the pips, now my
    phone and the linked smart watch synchronise to a time server somewhere
    in the cloud automatically.

    When I am at work,there is a tachograph on the vehicle, so I use that to
    time my arrivals.

    If I'm not working, a calendar is usually close enough.:-)

    I have a DCF77 and a MSF alarm clock, most of the time I tend to use
    them if I want to set / check my watch because they have decent sized displays and they show seconds, the MSF also displays how long since the
    last update.

    Before I retired I occasionally checked against our rack mounted GPS receivers but that was just for my own amusement.

    As I am now officially retired, my alarm radio gets set whenever I
    change the batteries. It is currently a Radio 4 weather forecast fast...
    --
    Tciao for Now!

    John.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to uk.tech.broadcast on Thu Feb 26 12:11:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 2026/2/26 8:38:31, John Williamson wrote:
    On 26/02/2026 00:04, NY wrote:
    On 25/02/2026 16:07, John Williamson wrote:

    The only easily available, accurate time reference nowadays is a GPS
    receiver, and a good one will even allow for the speed of light delay
    from the satellites.

    I'm not bothered about that sort of accuracy - I just like to know,
    within about half a second or so, how fast or slow my watch (or anything
    else I have that shows seconds) is. The FM serves for me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dwUWtyRP4c is a demo of the speed of
    sound in air versus the live broadcast (on FM, not DAB!) - done by Vikki
    Pipe of All The Stations fame.

    I have done that experiment myself....

    :-) [It is quite hard to hear, but yes, just.]
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Hadrian's Wall has never been a border between Scotland and England. It
    lies entirely within England but, when it was built in AD 122 by the
    Romans as a defence against the raiding Picts, the future English were
    still in Germany and the Scottish were still in Ireland.
    - Michael Cullen, Skye, in RT 2014/12/6-12
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From NY@me@privacy.net to uk.tech.broadcast on Thu Feb 26 21:30:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 26/02/2026 12:11, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/2/26 8:38:31, John Williamson wrote:
    On 26/02/2026 00:04, NY wrote:
    On 25/02/2026 16:07, John Williamson wrote:

    The only easily available, accurate time reference nowadays is a GPS
    receiver, and a good one will even allow for the speed of light delay
    from the satellites.

    I'm not bothered about that sort of accuracy - I just like to know,
    within about half a second or so, how fast or slow my watch (or anything
    else I have that shows seconds) is. The FM serves for me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dwUWtyRP4c is a demo of the speed of
    sound in air versus the live broadcast (on FM, not DAB!) - done by Vikki >>> Pipe of All The Stations fame.

    I have done that experiment myself....

    :-) [It is quite hard to hear, but yes, just.]

    Yes, she'd have done better to go to the other end of the bridge, or by
    the Big Wheel, so the delay through the air was long enough to be
    clearly distinguishable from the one through the radio.

    Apparently there is a whodunnit where someone hears Big Ben chiming a different time from reality because they are hearing n chimes through
    the radio and a final one again through the air, because the time delay
    is exactly one "bong". I'm not sure what the clock's "inter-bong"
    interval is to be able to calculate the corresponding distance from Big Ben. --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From richard@richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) to uk.tech.broadcast on Thu Feb 26 22:11:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    In article <10npd9r$1k02g$2@dont-email.me>,
    J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

    the future English were
    still in Germany and the Scottish were still in Ireland.
    - Michael Cullen, Skye, in RT 2014/12/6-12

    This is nonsense. The populations of England and Scotland were
    not displaced by people from Germany or Ireland.

    -- Richard
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From JMB99@mb@nospam.net to uk.tech.broadcast on Fri Feb 27 00:02:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 26/02/2026 22:11, Richard Tobin wrote:
    This is nonsense. The populations of England and Scotland were
    not displaced by people from Germany or Ireland.


    Grossly oversymplified for political reasons.

    They try to claim the English are just recent incomers whilst claiming
    that the Irish and Scots etc have been there for ever.




    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to uk.tech.broadcast on Fri Feb 27 09:58:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 2026/2/26 22:11:54, Richard Tobin wrote:
    In article <10npd9r$1k02g$2@dont-email.me>,
    J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

    the future English were
    still in Germany and the Scottish were still in Ireland.
    - Michael Cullen, Skye, in RT 2014/12/6-12

    This is nonsense. The populations of England and Scotland were
    not displaced by people from Germany or Ireland.

    -- Richard
    I'm sure Michael Cullen (I've completely forgotten who he is or was) exaggerated for mainly comic, or possibly as JMB99 suggests political,
    effect. Though he doesn't say displaced, he says (or implies) invaded.
    (It is true that Hadrian's Wall is entirely within what is _now_ England
    - which, on the _east_ side, extends a lot further north than a lot of
    people realise; the border is nearer north-south than east-west.)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From JMB99@mb@nospam.net to uk.tech.broadcast on Fri Feb 27 12:38:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 27/02/2026 09:58, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    I'm sure Michael Cullen (I've completely forgotten who he is or was) exaggerated for mainly comic, or possibly as JMB99 suggests political, effect. Though he doesn't say displaced, he says (or implies) invaded.
    (It is true that Hadrian's Wall is entirely within what is_now_ England
    - which, on the_east_ side, extends a lot further north than a lot of
    people realise; the border is nearer north-south than east-west.)


    Though of course England (Northumbria) extended as far as Edinburgh and
    I think towards Glasgow which is presumably why the claimed Scots
    'language' is just one of the Northern English dialects.

    I was commenting on some of the nationalists who like to think that
    England developed late with incomers from Germany. As always much more complicated - there were Welsh right up through the North West England.
    Even Ireland is more complicated that the nationalists like think - I
    think I read that in Viking times, the largest slave market in the world
    was in Dublin.


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul Ratcliffe@abuse@orac12.clara34.co56.uk78 to uk.tech.broadcast on Fri Feb 27 15:06:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On Thu, 26 Feb 2026 00:25:17 +0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

    (*) My A Level physics teacher was called J R Hartley.

    Likewise for my junior school headmaster. He was from
    Yorkshire too.
    And chairman of the parish council for many a year.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul Ratcliffe@abuse@orac12.clara34.co56.uk78 to uk.tech.broadcast on Fri Feb 27 15:13:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 19:30:22 +0000, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:

    No time reference on any of the digital broadcasting services can be
    counted on anyway, unless you are extracting the time from the frame metadata.

    The Time & Date Table and Time Offset Table in PID 20 are always correct.
    This is not 'frame metadata' but part of the Service Information.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul Ratcliffe@abuse@orac12.clara34.co56.uk78 to uk.tech.broadcast on Fri Feb 27 15:20:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On Thu, 26 Feb 2026 21:30:37 +0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

    Apparently there is a whodunnit where someone hears Big Ben chiming a different time from reality because they are hearing n chimes through
    the radio and a final one again through the air, because the time delay
    is exactly one "bong". I'm not sure what the clock's "inter-bong"
    interval is to be able to calculate the corresponding distance from Big Ben.

    It's roughly 4.5s and roughly 340m/s, so roughly 1530m i.e. almost a mile,
    but it's dependent on temperature and humidity and mechanical variations.

    The quality of the sound direct and a mile away are going to be somewhat different though.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Charles Hope@clh@candehope.me.uk to uk.tech.broadcast on Fri Feb 27 16:15:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 26/02/2026 22:11, Richard Tobin wrote:
    In article <10npd9r$1k02g$2@dont-email.me>,
    J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

    the future English were
    still in Germany and the Scottish were still in Ireland.
    - Michael Cullen, Skye, in RT 2014/12/6-12

    This is nonsense. The populations of England and Scotland were
    not displaced by people from Germany or Ireland.

    -- Richard
    how about he Angles and Saxons (and Norsemen (or Normans). The Scotti
    were an Irish Tribe.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2