• Fun handsignals from cameraman

    From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to uk.tech.broadcast on Sun Apr 26 01:12:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm1qDrtk4tA at 2:20-4:08 - I presume he
    was giving directions to those operating the hydraulics (or whatever).

    One forgets just how big lenses were in 1972!

    (According to one of the comments, the cameraman is called Dieter
    Schneider, and is known.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    There's only so much you can do... with gravel.
    - Charlie Dimmock, RT 2016/7/9-15

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  • From =?UTF-8?B?SmltIFNwcmlnZ3M=?=@foo@bat.baz to uk.tech.broadcast on Tue May 5 10:32:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On Sun Apr 26 01:12:32 2026 "J. P. Gilliver" wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dgm1qDrtk4tA at 2:20-4:08 - I presume he
    was giving directions to those operating the hydraulics (or whatever).

    One forgets just how big lenses were in 1972!
    Box lenses are still that big.N
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  • From NY@me@privacy.net to uk.tech.broadcast on Tue May 5 16:25:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 05/05/2026 11:32, Jim Spriggs wrote:
    On Sun Apr 26 01:12:32 2026 "J. P. Gilliver" wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm1qDrtk4tA at 2:20-4:08 - I presume he
    was giving directions to those operating the hydraulics (or whatever).

    One forgets just how big lenses were in 1972!

    Box lenses are still that big.N

    I remember seeing a programme about the exhibits in the Bradford Museum
    of Film, Photography and Television that were too big (or too boring for
    those with limited attention span!) to display. One was a zoom lens
    which was about two metres long and weighed as much as an elephant
    because of all the lens elements in it. I imagine it needed a special
    mount and special counterweights on the camera pedestal. It was designed
    for OB work - maybe sports like horse racing or golf where the cameraman sometimes needed to show a very distant horse or golf ball.

    At least modern TV cameras have much smaller sensors and so don't need
    such long focal lengths to achieve a given amount of magnification. I
    think early image orthicon cameras used tubes that were about 5"
    diameter so the frame size would have been about 4" x 3" (102 x 76 mm).
    That is a hell of a lot larger than a 35 mm still frame which is 36 x 24 millimetres, so needs proportionally longer focal length for the same
    field of view.
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  • From Charles Hope@clh@candehope.me.uk to uk.tech.broadcast on Tue May 5 16:15:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 05/05/2026 16:25, NY wrote:
    On 05/05/2026 11:32, Jim Spriggs wrote:
    On Sun Apr 26 01:12:32 2026 "J. P. Gilliver" wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm1qDrtk4tA at 2:20-4:08 - I
    presume he was giving directions to those operating the
    hydraulics (or whatever).

    One forgets just how big lenses were in 1972!

    Box lenses are still that big.N

    I remember seeing a programme about the exhibits in the Bradford
    Museum of Film, Photography and Television that were too big (or too
    boring for those with limited attention span!) to display. One was a
    zoom lens which was about two metres long and weighed as much as an
    elephant because of all the lens elements in it. I imagine it needed
    a special mount and special counterweights on the camera pedestal.
    It was designed for OB work - maybe sports like horse racing or golf
    where the cameraman sometimes needed to show a very distant horse or
    golf ball.

    At least modern TV cameras have much smaller sensors and so don't
    need such long focal lengths to achieve a given amount of
    magnification. I think early image orthicon cameras used tubes that
    were about 5" diameter so the frame size would have been about 4" x
    3" (102 x 76 mm). That is a hell of a lot larger than a 35 mm still
    frame which is 36 x 24 millimetres, so needs proportionally longer
    focal length for the same field of view.


    ISTR that the tubes were 3" or 4 1/2. But that's from 60+ years ago
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  • From NY@me@privacy.net to uk.tech.broadcast on Wed May 6 14:35:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 05/05/2026 17:15, Charles Hope wrote:
    -aISTR that the tubes were 3" or 4 1/2. But that's from 60+ years ago

    No wonder that studio cameras and associated lenses were so large and heavy.

    What was the light sensitivity of the various types of tubes (IO,
    Plumbicon, Saticon, modern solid-state) in terms of equivalent ISO
    speed? I've found a reference to a Saticon being about ISO 64 and also a reference to IOs being able to give good pictures "by candlelight". But
    then I've also heard that a typical TV studio in bygone days was lit to
    a brightness similar to an overcast day - which is *very* bright by
    artificial light standards.

    I realise that things are different if a studio shot needs to "see"
    daylight in the background. The classic case was Pebble Mill at One
    where the guests were sitting indoors with daylight (overcast or sunny) outside being seen in the background. I presume the cameras were
    balanced for daylight and blue gels were used on the lights, with the
    lighting level being varied day by day so as to match the brightness of
    the sun that day.
    Was the correction for colour temperature of a TV camera (tungsten, HMI, overcast day, full sun, shade on a sunny day) done by changing a filter,
    or was the adjustment done in electronics by varying the gain of one
    tube relative to another? I know that cine film is normally tungsten
    balanced with an amber filter for daylight, so the filter-loss happens
    in the case where the light is brighter.
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  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to uk.tech.broadcast on Wed May 6 15:09:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 2026/5/6 14:35:18, NY wrote:
    On 05/05/2026 17:15, Charles Hope wrote:
    -aISTR that the tubes were 3" or 4 1/2. But that's from 60+ years ago

    No wonder that studio cameras and associated lenses were so large and heavy.

    What was the light sensitivity of the various types of tubes (IO,
    Plumbicon, Saticon, modern solid-state) in terms of equivalent ISO
    speed? I've found a reference to a Saticon being about ISO 64 and also a reference to IOs being able to give good pictures "by candlelight". But
    then I've also heard that a typical TV studio in bygone days was lit to
    a brightness similar to an overcast day - which is *very* bright by artificial light standards.

    I realise that things are different if a studio shot needs to "see"
    daylight in the background. The classic case was Pebble Mill at One
    where the guests were sitting indoors with daylight (overcast or sunny) outside being seen in the background. I presume the cameras were
    balanced for daylight and blue gels were used on the lights, with the lighting level being varied day by day so as to match the brightness of
    the sun that day.

    Probably. The alternative would have been to put filters over the
    windows, but I suspect it was as you describe.

    Was the correction for colour temperature of a TV camera (tungsten, HMI, overcast day, full sun, shade on a sunny day) done by changing a filter,
    or was the adjustment done in electronics by varying the gain of one
    tube relative to another? I know that cine film is normally tungsten balanced with an amber filter for daylight, so the filter-loss happens
    in the case where the light is brighter.

    For Super 8 (in the late 70s, at least), it was indeed as you describe;
    about the only film widely available (and for which the cheaper cameras
    were preset) was a Kodak, nominally 25 ASA, but actually 40ASA indoor
    with the filter being in place in the camera (which came with a special
    key on the wriststrap that you pushed through a slot in the handle when
    filming indoors, which pushed the filter out of the way). For Standard
    8, the default _was_ outdoor film - 25ASA for Kodak, though 10 was
    available (e. g. Perutz). I don't know what was used for professional
    formats (16mm and above) - presumably specifically indoor or outdoor
    film for whatever you were doing. (For the amateur formats it was
    assumed you wouldn't want to keep changing the film.)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
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  • From John Williamson@johnwilliamson@btinternet.com to uk.tech.broadcast on Wed May 6 15:42:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 06/05/2026 15:09, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    For Super 8 (in the late 70s, at least), it was indeed as you describe;
    about the only film widely available (and for which the cheaper cameras
    were preset) was a Kodak, nominally 25 ASA, but actually 40ASA indoor
    with the filter being in place in the camera (which came with a special
    key on the wriststrap that you pushed through a slot in the handle when filming indoors, which pushed the filter out of the way). For Standard
    8, the default _was_ outdoor film - 25ASA for Kodak, though 10 was
    available (e. g. Perutz). I don't know what was used for professional
    formats (16mm and above) - presumably specifically indoor or outdoor
    film for whatever you were doing. (For the amateur formats it was
    assumed you wouldn't want to keep changing the film.)

    From what I remember of speaking to a guy who did the processing at
    Denham film studios in the late 1970s, they always used the same
    Ektachrome? film, with a filter when in daylight, then produced an
    editing positive copy using standard filtration. Then, once the final
    edited interneg had been produced, the results were finally balanced on
    a shot by shot basis (Sometimes frame by frame) to produce a master for
    the projection copies.

    The colour balancer was the most important and finicky job in the
    processing department.

    Nice guy, he used to give me random offcuts of film in 35mm canisters
    that I supplied, and processed them by tagging them onto the end of a
    run. I'd get half a dozen rolls of slides back, all with different
    colour balancing. :-)

    Nowadays, the basic balance is done by settings on the camera, with the
    final balance done in the computer. The camera may have an ND filter in position for bright days...
    --
    Tciao for Now!

    John.
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  • From Adrian Caspersz@email@here.invalid to uk.tech.broadcast on Mon May 11 01:14:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 26/04/2026 01:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm1qDrtk4tA at 2:20-4:08 - I presume he
    was giving directions to those operating the hydraulics (or whatever).

    One forgets just how big lenses were in 1972!

    (According to one of the comments, the cameraman is called Dieter
    Schneider, and is known.


    Some else playing with a camera rig

    YouTube: GB Jax Jones, Ella Henderson - This Is Real
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpArZkzrU3g

    Those robotic cameras are dangerous when they go wrong, they must have
    risk assessed that one to hell and back....
    --
    Adrian C
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  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to uk.tech.broadcast on Mon May 11 13:29:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 2026/5/11 1:14:8, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
    On 26/04/2026 01:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm1qDrtk4tA at 2:20-4:08 - I presume he
    was giving directions to those operating the hydraulics (or whatever).

    One forgets just how big lenses were in 1972!

    (According to one of the comments, the cameraman is called Dieter
    Schneider, and is known.


    Some else playing with a camera rig

    YouTube: GB Jax Jones, Ella Henderson - This Is Real
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpArZkzrU3g

    Those robotic cameras are dangerous when they go wrong, they must have
    risk assessed that one to hell and back....

    Or didn't ask :-)

    What a very athletic young lady; I'm exhausted just watching!
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    There's only so much you can do... with gravel.
    - Charlie Dimmock, RT 2016/7/9-15
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  • From David Paste@pastedavid@gmail.com to uk.tech.broadcast on Wed May 13 18:47:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.tech.broadcast

    On 11/05/2026 13:29, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/5/11 1:14:8, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
    On 26/04/2026 01:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm1qDrtk4tA at 2:20-4:08 - I presume he
    was giving directions to those operating the hydraulics (or whatever).

    One forgets just how big lenses were in 1972!

    (According to one of the comments, the cameraman is called Dieter
    Schneider, and is known.


    Some else playing with a camera rig

    YouTube: GB Jax Jones, Ella Henderson - This Is Real
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpArZkzrU3g

    Those robotic cameras are dangerous when they go wrong, they must have
    risk assessed that one to hell and back....

    Or didn't ask :-)

    What a very athletic young lady; I'm exhausted just watching!

    This making-of video of a pop music video is very interesting, the tech
    is incredible! (Wide Open by The Chemical Brothers)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifAE5MWR-4k
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