From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

My attention was drawn to this chapter today after seeing a Facebook
reel (short clips of video) After reading the chapter I'm a tad confused.

The people were upset with Moses and Aaron because there was no water
for them to drink, and they felt they had been drawn to that place to
die. Moses and Aaron went into the tent and fell face down before God,
who commanded Moses to strike the rock twice with his staff, which he
did, and there was an abundance of water.

But God remonstrated with Moses and said neither he or Aaron would lead
the crowd into the promised land, because they had not trusted in God.

Given Moses obeyed God, what did he do wrong?



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From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

On 28/07/2026 13:52, John wrote:

My attention was drawn to this chapter today after seeing a Facebook
reel (short clips of video) After reading the chapter I'm a tad confused.

The people were upset with Moses and Aaron because there was no water
for them to drink, and they felt they had been drawn to that place to
die.-a Moses and Aaron went into the tent and fell face down before God,
who commanded Moses to strike the rock twice with his staff, which he
did, and there was an abundance of water.

But God remonstrated with Moses and said neither he or Aaron would lead
the crowd into the promised land, because they had not trusted in God.

Given Moses obeyed God, what did he do wrong?

Here's one explanation:

https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/537634/jewish/Why-Did-Moses-Hit-the-Rock.htm





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From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

On 28/07/2026 14:36, GB wrote:

On 28/07/2026 13:52, John wrote:

My attention was drawn to this chapter today after seeing a Facebook
reel (short clips of video) After reading the chapter I'm a tad confused.

The people were upset with Moses and Aaron because there was no water
for them to drink, and they felt they had been drawn to that place to
die.-a Moses and Aaron went into the tent and fell face down before
God, who commanded Moses to strike the rock twice with his staff,
which he did, and there was an abundance of water.

But God remonstrated with Moses and said neither he or Aaron would
lead the crowd into the promised land, because they had not trusted in
God.

Given Moses obeyed God, what did he do wrong?

Here's one explanation:

https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/537634/jewish/Why-Did- Moses-Hit-the-Rock.htm

Thanks Ken. I missed the bit in verse 8 in which God said tell the
rock, and he hit it instead.



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* GB <114ab88$3e19$1@dont-email.me> :
Wrote on Tue, 28 Jul 2026 14:36:07 +0100:

On 28/07/2026 13:52, John wrote:

My attention was drawn to this chapter today after seeing a Facebook
reel (short clips of video) After reading the chapter I'm a tad
confused.
The people were upset with Moses and Aaron because there was no
water for them to drink, and they felt they had been drawn to that
place to die.-a Moses and Aaron went into the tent and fell face down
before God, who commanded Moses to strike the rock twice with his
staff, which he did, and there was an abundance of water.
But God remonstrated with Moses and said neither he or Aaron would
lead the crowd into the promised land, because they had not trusted
in God.
Given Moses obeyed God, what did he do wrong?

Here's one explanation:

https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/537634/jewish/Why-Did-Moses-Hit-the-Rock.htm

I can't find one rabbinic explanation I remember reading, which iirc
talked about "dispensations", that the dispensation (of "punishment")
which had begun at the start of the wandering, indicated at Massah
(Exo. 17:6) signified by striking the rock had ended and God had
prepared a new dispensation to be indicated at Meribah (Num. 20:8), of benevolence, signified by merely speaking to the rock. God had changed
his attitude and was ready to forgive and bless Israelis after the 39
years after preparing them, and Moses put a spanner in this plan by
denying this.

For a general comprehensive analysis

Martin Emmrich, "The Case Against Moses Reopened," Journal of the
Evangelical Theological Society 46.1 (2003): 53-62
pdf

https://etsjets.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/files_JETS-PDFs_46_46-1_46-1-pp053-062_JETS.pdf




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From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

* John <114b2he$bge2$1@dont-email.me> :
Wrote on Tue, 28 Jul 2026 21:13:33 +0100:

On 28/07/2026 14:36, GB wrote:

Here's one explanation:
https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/537634/jewish/Why-Did-
Moses-Hit-the-Rock.htm

Thanks Ken. I missed the bit in verse 8 in which God said tell the
rock, and he hit it instead.

It was GB (not Ken)...



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From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

On 28/07/2026 13:52, John wrote:

Given Moses obeyed God, what did he do wrong?

You need to read more carefully. Moses did two things wrong.

1. God commanded him to speak to the rock, but he went out and struck
the rock.

2. Moses said, "Must *we* bring water out of the rock?" thereby claiming
that he was the miracle worker, not God.

I agree that it is not clear why Aaron was included in the sentence. I
can only conclude that there is more to the story and Moses and Aaron,
while gathering the people together (v. 10) must have spoken together
and perhaps agreed on a course of action or even a form of words As
always, the Biblical account is accurate but not exhaustive.

God bless,
Kendall K. Down
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com



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From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

On 28/07/2026 14:36, GB wrote:

Here's one explanation: https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/537634/jewish/Why-Did- Moses-Hit-the-Rock.htm

Thanks, I agree with a lot of what is said there.

I also think that Moses lost his temper with the people - perhaps the
only time he did so - and that led him to strike and to claim "Must we?"

God bless,
Kendall K. Down
--
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www.avg.com



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From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

On 28/07/2026 21:13, John wrote:

Thanks Ken.-a I missed the bit in verse 8 in which God said tell the
rock, and he hit it instead.

Er - you were replying to GB, not to me. I have only just posted my
first reply to you.

God bless,
Kendall K. Down
--
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www.avg.com



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From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

On 29/07/2026 02:14, Madhu wrote:

God had changed
his attitude and was ready to forgive and bless Israelis after the 39
years after preparing them, and Moses put a spanner in this plan by
denying this.

I don't believe that God had changed His attitude. Rather I think that
in the first incident God was building up Moses as the leader, divinely appointed and deserving respect. It was Moses who struck the rock with
his staff and only Moses had the staff, only Moses could work the miracle.

39 years later the emphasis is to be on God, not Moses or his staff.
Simply speaking to the rock, which anyone could do, would bring out the
water.

God bless,
Kendall K. Down
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com



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* "Kendall K. Down" <114c4l7$k9oq$8@dont-email.me> :
Wrote on Wed, 29 Jul 2026 06:55:51 +0100:

On 29/07/2026 02:14, Madhu wrote:

God had changed
his attitude and was ready to forgive and bless Israelis after the 39
years after preparing them, and Moses put a spanner in this plan by
denying this.

I don't believe that God had changed His attitude. Rather I think that
in the first incident God was building up Moses as the leader,
divinely appointed and deserving respect. It was Moses who struck the
rock with his staff and only Moses had the staff, only Moses could
work the miracle.

39 years later the emphasis is to be on God, not Moses or his
staff. Simply speaking to the rock, which anyone could do, would bring
out the water.

Your exegesis is unsatisfactory on all counts, Moses would still be
working the miracle so that that cannot not be the point. One is no
wiser and no more assured of why God told moses "take the rod (but don't
use it)" but left out the "don't use it" bit. The context in the
exegesis which you replied to (which source I cannot identify now, and
which you chose to elide) provides the reassurance as it explains "why"
in a concrete way. Besides your exegesis follows the lead in the Chabad article which makes it out about the powers of the leaders, which
intentionally misses the point of this incident: God is working with the people, but it is the appointed leaders that prevent them from
responding to him and keep them in bondage, (for the benefit of the
enemy and the "system")

As for Aaron falling in the ambit of the judgment I remember reading a
blog that interpreted the "Ye" to be plural ("Moses and Aaron"), and
moses was instructed to put up the show along with Aaron, as per the
original agreement (Moses shall be a God and Aaron shall be his prophet/spokesperson) and Aaron failed again.



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On 29/07/2026 02:20, Madhu wrote:

* John <114b2he$bge2$1@dont-email.me> :
Wrote on Tue, 28 Jul 2026 21:13:33 +0100:

On 28/07/2026 14:36, GB wrote:

Here's one explanation:
https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/537634/jewish/Why-Did-
Moses-Hit-the-Rock.htm

Thanks Ken. I missed the bit in verse 8 in which God said tell the
rock, and he hit it instead.

It was GB (not Ken)...

Ahh, it was, thanks for the correction.

Thanks GB



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From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

On 29/07/2026 02:14, Madhu wrote:

* GB <114ab88$3e19$1@dont-email.me> :
Wrote on Tue, 28 Jul 2026 14:36:07 +0100:

On 28/07/2026 13:52, John wrote:

My attention was drawn to this chapter today after seeing a Facebook
reel (short clips of video) After reading the chapter I'm a tad
confused.
The people were upset with Moses and Aaron because there was no
water for them to drink, and they felt they had been drawn to that
place to die.-a Moses and Aaron went into the tent and fell face down
before God, who commanded Moses to strike the rock twice with his
staff, which he did, and there was an abundance of water.
But God remonstrated with Moses and said neither he or Aaron would
lead the crowd into the promised land, because they had not trusted
in God.
Given Moses obeyed God, what did he do wrong?

Here's one explanation:

https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/537634/jewish/Why-Did-Moses-Hit-the-Rock.htm

I can't find one rabbinic explanation I remember reading, which iirc
talked about "dispensations", that the dispensation (of "punishment")
which had begun at the start of the wandering, indicated at Massah
(Exo. 17:6) signified by striking the rock had ended and God had
prepared a new dispensation to be indicated at Meribah (Num. 20:8), of benevolence, signified by merely speaking to the rock. God had changed
his attitude and was ready to forgive and bless Israelis after the 39
years after preparing them, and Moses put a spanner in this plan by
denying this.

For a general comprehensive analysis

Martin Emmrich, "The Case Against Moses Reopened," Journal of the
Evangelical Theological Society 46.1 (2003): 53-62
pdf

https://etsjets.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/files_JETS-PDFs_46_46-1_46-1-pp053-062_JETS.pdf

Thanks Madhu



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From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

On 29/07/2026 09:34, Madhu wrote:

Your exegesis is unsatisfactory on all counts, Moses would still be
working the miracle so that that cannot not be the point.

To be strict, Moses never worked the miracle, it was always God who did
the miraculous bit. However in the first instance Moses had more
apparent agency in the miracle by striking the rock.

As for Aaron falling in the ambit of the judgment I remember reading a
blog that interpreted the "Ye" to be plural ("Moses and Aaron"), and
moses was instructed to put up the show along with Aaron, as per the
original agreement (Moses shall be a God and Aaron shall be his prophet/spokesperson) and Aaron failed again.

I suppose that is a possible interpretation. I'm surprised, however,
that you have not so far accused Aaron of being an international banker.

God bless,
Kendall K. Down
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com



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