From Newsgroup: uk.rec.waterways

<div>There are relevant differences between the rapist and the fetus conceived as a result of rape. If, after the fact, the rapist no longer poses a threat to the rape victim, then the victim's killing the rapist would be revenge rather than self-defense, and we normally take very different moral attitudes toward those two types of action. By contrast, the fetus still constitutes at least a burden, and perhaps also a threat, to the rape victim, and importantly a burden or threat for which the rape victim is in no way responsible. I think it's this absence of responsibility in the case of rape that makes the most important difference. Even if we assume that the fetus conceived by rape has as much intrinsic moral status as a normal five-year-old child, that wouldn't make the rape victim responsible for the fetus in a way that obligates her to allow the use of her body for its survival. There are many five-year-old children in the world for whose survival you and I aren't obligated to make highly burdensome sacrifices.</div><div></div><div></div><div>My co-panelist has drawn some genuine distinctions, but I'd expect many people to find his response unconvincing overall. One obvious reason: suppose I have a five-year-old child who poses a very substantial burden to me. Perhaps the child has a physical disability that makes extensive demands on my time and money. Most of us don't think this would provide even the slightest justification for killing the child. And unless I could be very sure that the child would be cared for, it doesn't even provide a justification for abandoning the child.</div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>Now the analogy isn't perfect. After all, the rape victim is in no way responsible for the fetus. I may have chosen to become a parent; I may have accepted responsibility for the child. But even if we grant that those a re relevant differences, they don't seem to get us very far. Suppose the child wasn't mine but had been abandoned on my doorstep. It's hardly clear that this would make enough difference to justify killing the child or abandoning it once more. </div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>It might be that with sufficiently subtle argument, we could wring out enough differences here to distinguish the cases. But that isn't my point. My point is that on the face of it, many people will find Stephen's reply unconvincing even if it can be defended at the end of the day. What interests me is what I'm guessing is the reason: if you reallu think of fetuses and five-year-olds as on par with one another, abortion is homicide. That said, I suspect very few people really think that a fetus and a five-year-old are moral equivalents. My guess is that this goes even for people who claim otherwise. For more on this point, see Peter Smith's excellent response to a question on abortion from 2011. You can read it HERE </div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>From your last sentence, I take it that you at least think you think of a fetus and a five-year-old as being on the same moral level. I can't say for sure that you're wrong about your own views. (And yes: we can be wrong about what we really think. That's part of the point of the concept of self-deception.) But for anyone who doesn't see things that way, this will be a big part of the reason for the distinction: killing the rapist is murder; the victim is a person. Aborting a fetus isn't murder, because a fetus isn't a person. </div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>It wouldn't follow from this that abortion is morally trivial. And it wouldn't follow that a fetus is nothing more than an object. But I'll confess that I find the view that a fetus is a full-fledged person all but incomprehensible. There are so many actual differences between fetuses and paradigm persons, not to mention so many differences (see Peter Smith's reply) in the ways we ordinarily think about fetuses and persons that I find the conceptual gap all but unbridgeable. Perhaps that puts me at the far end of the spectrum. But I don't think there's anything at all unusual in perceiving some significant gap here, even if one isn't prepared to admit it out loud. And if there is a gap, there's a big distinction between the two cases that potentially could do the work that I think Stephen's distinctions probably can't do.</div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>download the Kill The Rapist movie torrent</div><div></div><div>DOWNLOAD: https://t.co/dq2BtJk3Gc </div><div></div><div></div><div>I saw a post recently that argued that women who killed their rapist should not be jailed. Although this relates more to the legal ramifications of killing the rapist, what would be the moral arguments for and against killing the rapist?</div><div></div><div></div><div>A Mexican woman who killed a man while defending herself when he attacked and raped her in 2021 was sentenced to more than six years in prison, a decision her legal defense called "discriminatory" and vowed to appeal Tuesday.</div><div></div><div></div><div>Ruiz agreed to let him sleep on a mattress on the floor. But while she slept he climbed onto her bed, hit her, tore off her clothes and raped her, according to Ruiz's legal defense. Ruiz fought back, hitting him in the nose. He threatened to kill her, and in the struggle to free herself she killed him in self defense.</div><div></div><div></div><div>Henryetta Police Chief Steve Norman,left, visits the home of Nathan Brewer in Henryetta Okla., on Wednesday, May 3, 2023. Brittany Brewer was found dead at a home in Henryetta along with six others on Monday. Jesse McFadden, an Oklahoma sex offender who was released from prison early shot his wife, her three children and their two friends in the head and then killed himself, authorities confirmed Wednesday as concerns grew about why he was free in the first place. (Nathan J. Fish/The Oklahoman via AP)</div><div></div><div></div><div>Okmulgee Police Chief Joe Prentice speaks at a press conference on Wednesday, May 3, 2023, in Okmulgee Okla., after seven bodies were found in Henryetta on Monday. Jesse McFadden, an Oklahoma sex offender who was released from prison early shot his wife, her three children and their two friends in the head and then killed himself, authorities confirmed Wednesday as concerns grew about why he was free in the first place. (Nathan J. Fish/The Oklahoman via AP)</div><div></div><div></div><div>A memorial for Tiffany Guess, Michael Mayo and Rylee Allen hangs outside a home, Wednesday, May 3, 2023, where seven bodies were discovered on Monday in Henryetta Okla. Jesse McFadden, an Oklahoma sex offender who was released from prison early shot his wife, her three children and their two friends in the head and then killed himself, authorities confirmed Wednesday as concerns grew about why he was free in the first place. (Nathan J. Fish/The Oklahoman via AP)</div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>This undated photo provided by Janette Mayo shows from left, Tiffany Guess, Michael Mayo and Rylee Elizabeth Allen, three of seven people found dead on a property in rural Oklahoma on Monday, May 1, 2020. As law enforcement officials went silent Tuesday, May 2, 2023, while piecing together what led to the killing of seven people in rural Oklahoma, family members of those slain recalled the controlling nature of one of the dead, who was a registered sex offender. (Courtesy Janette Mayo via AP)</div><div></div><div></div><div>This undated image provided by Ashleigh Webster, shows Ivy Webster, one of seven people found dead in rural Oklahoma. As law enforcement officials went silent Tuesday while piecing together what led to the killing of seven people in rural Oklahoma, family members of those slain recalled the controlling nature of one of the dead, who was a registered sex offender. (Courtesy Ashleigh Webster via AP)</div><div></div><div> dd2b598166</div>
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2