• Oil Sump Pump

    From RJH@patchmoney@gmx.com to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Tue Apr 12 10:48:44 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance

    I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?
    --
    Cheers, Rob
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  • From Abandoned_Trolley@fred@fred-smith.co.uk to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Tue Apr 12 16:35:38 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance

    On 12/04/2022 11:48, RJH wrote:
    .... especially as on my
    car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine.


    but I am assuming that the sump drain plug is at the bottom somewhere ?

    anyway ... what happened to "flushing oil" ?
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  • From Abandoned_Trolley@fred@fred-smith.co.uk to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Tue Apr 12 16:49:14 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance

    On 12/04/2022 16:35, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
    On 12/04/2022 11:48, RJH wrote:
    .... especially as on my
    car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine.


    but I am assuming that the sump drain plug is at the bottom somewhere ?

    anyway-a ... what happened to "flushing oil" ?



    also ... during the course of the last 30 years or so, it seems to me
    that a lot of cars are using progressively lower viscosity oils.

    When multigrade came along and relieved us of the chore of changing from summer to winter oil and back again, I think they were mostly 20W50 ?

    But now, my Ford, along with a lot of other current models seems quite
    happy on 5W40.

    I would imagine that (all other things being equal) the lower viscosity
    oils would more readily run out of the drain plug ?
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  • From alan_m@junk@admac.myzen.co.uk to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Tue Apr 12 20:09:16 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance

    On 12/04/2022 16:49, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:

    But now, my Ford, along with a lot of other current models seems quite
    happy on 5W40.


    or even 5W20
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  • From RJH@patchmoney@gmx.com to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Tue Apr 12 21:41:25 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance

    On 12 Apr 2022 at 16:35:38 BST, "Abandoned_Trolley" <fred@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:

    On 12/04/2022 11:48, RJH wrote:
    .... especially as on my
    car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine.


    but I am assuming that the sump drain plug is at the bottom somewhere ?


    Yes of course, but that's the whole point of the pump:

    https://www.screwfix.com/p/oil-fluid-extractor-6ltr/21663

    anyway ... what happened to "flushing oil" ?

    Used it once in the early 80s, not since.
    --
    Cheers, Rob
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  • From Roger Mills@mills37.fslife@gmail.com to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Wed Apr 13 20:08:45 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance

    On 12/04/2022 11:48, RJH wrote:
    I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?


    Well, I suppose it avoids having grovel under the car - but I'd prefer
    to let the oil drain by gravity in the time honoured fashion.
    --
    Cheers,
    Roger
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  • From Brian@noinv@lid.org to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Wed Apr 13 20:53:17 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance

    RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
    I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?


    Some Smart Cars donrCOt have a sump drain plug. It became a standard mod to replace the sump with a modified one.

    When we bought our Smart Car, it was one of the things I checked, although
    I later learned ours was to late to be one of the drainless ones. Smart abandoned the idea.

    A lot of the rCyquick oilrCO change places in the US suck the old oil out via the dipstick tube- they feed a pipe into the sump.

    IrCOve seen a few in garages here.

    Personally, I donrCOt think they are a good idea. A quick rCywhooshrCO of warm oil as you remove the sump plug should rCycarryrCO any sludge etc which is laying in the bottom of the sump.

    If you try to suck the oil with a thin tube - it needs to be thin to go
    down the dipstick tube- at best you may suck up a bit of sludge around
    where the end of the tube touches the sump.

    Ok, if you change you oil regularly, you shouldnrCOt get sludge but that is
    due to flushing it out, which the tube doesnrCOt.



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  • From newshound@sradcliffe544@gmail.com to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Thu Apr 14 17:53:59 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance

    On 13/04/2022 21:53, Brian wrote:
    RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
    I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad
    idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some
    garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my >> car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?


    Some Smart Cars donrCOt have a sump drain plug. It became a standard mod to replace the sump with a modified one.

    When we bought our Smart Car, it was one of the things I checked, although
    I later learned ours was to late to be one of the drainless ones. Smart abandoned the idea.

    A lot of the rCyquick oilrCO change places in the US suck the old oil out via the dipstick tube- they feed a pipe into the sump.

    IrCOve seen a few in garages here.

    Personally, I donrCOt think they are a good idea. A quick rCywhooshrCO of warm
    oil as you remove the sump plug should rCycarryrCO any sludge etc which is laying in the bottom of the sump.

    If you try to suck the oil with a thin tube - it needs to be thin to go
    down the dipstick tube- at best you may suck up a bit of sludge around
    where the end of the tube touches the sump.

    Ok, if you change you oil regularly, you shouldnrCOt get sludge but that is due to flushing it out, which the tube doesnrCOt.



    True, but with the better rings on modern cars you get less blow-by,
    sludge is not the problem that it used to be, and modern detergent oils
    aim to keep particulate suspended anyway.

    I assume that use of pumps by garages is down to time and convenience.
    No tray to be kicked over while working on other stuff. No need to use
    ramps even for a simple service.
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  • From Mark D@MD@MD.com to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Fri Apr 22 10:27:34 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance

    In article <jbolduFaap9U1@mid.individual.net>,
    mills37.fslife@gmail.com says...

    On 12/04/2022 11:48, RJH wrote:
    I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad
    idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my
    car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?


    Well, I suppose it avoids having grovel under the car - but I'd prefer
    to let the oil drain by gravity in the time honoured fashion.

    Try a Fumoto valve. It's a game changer!
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  • From RJH@patchmoney@gmx.com to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Fri Apr 22 09:53:18 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance

    On 22 Apr 2022 at 10:27:34 BST, "Mark D" <MD@MD.com> wrote:

    In article <jbolduFaap9U1@mid.individual.net>,
    mills37.fslife@gmail.com says...

    On 12/04/2022 11:48, RJH wrote:
    I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad
    idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some >>> garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my
    car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?


    Well, I suppose it avoids having grovel under the car - but I'd prefer
    to let the oil drain by gravity in the time honoured fashion.

    Try a Fumoto valve. It's a game changer!

    Don't see that as a huge advantage over a sump plug. I'd still have to get under the car and remove the tray. By the time I've done that removing the
    plug is the easy bit. And I'm not sure I like the idea of the exposed little lever to open it up.

    Maybe in motorsport.
    --
    Cheers, Rob
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  • From Abandoned_Trolley@fred@fred-smith.co.uk to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Fri Apr 22 11:16:34 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance



    Maybe in motorsport.


    ... where I believe a lot of engines use dry sump lubrication ?
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  • From Peter Hill@skyshac@yahoo.com to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Fri Apr 22 12:37:07 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance

    On 22/04/2022 11:16, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:


    Maybe in motorsport.


    ...-a-a where I believe a lot of engines use dry sump lubrication ?



    and the oil tank still needs a drain cock.
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  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Fri Apr 22 14:41:50 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance

    RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
    On 22 Apr 2022 at 10:27:34 BST, "Mark D" <MD@MD.com> wrote:
    Try a Fumoto valve. It's a game changer!

    Don't see that as a huge advantage over a sump plug. I'd still have to get under the car and remove the tray. By the time I've done that removing the plug is the easy bit. And I'm not sure I like the idea of the exposed little lever to open it up.

    There's also a nylon clip to prevent the lever being activated by road
    debris.

    I can see it could be useful if the hose version was piped up to a pump
    mounted higher up, so you could turn on the pump and suck oil out of the
    sump (rather than the dipstick hole not designed for it). But then you'd
    still need to flick the little lever, so you couldn't entirely automate it.

    Although even if you have to jack it up, being able to pipe directly into a waste oil container has its appeal...
    (it would have to be a shallow container though)

    Theo
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  • From Fredxx@fredxx@spam.uk to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Mon Apr 25 15:30:38 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance

    On 12/04/2022 11:48, RJH wrote:
    I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?

    Some of us boat owners have come up with a smarter method of draining
    the oil, especially when access to us underside of the sump is problematic:

    https://calcuttboatsshop.com/epages/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d/Products/POSP6
    https://www.enginesplus.co.uk/product/sump-pump/

    Usually a valve is incorporated in the flexible pipe and the pump hung
    on something convenient.




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  • From RJH@patchmoney@gmx.com to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Mon Apr 25 20:43:04 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance

    On 25 Apr 2022 at 15:30:38 BST, "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

    On 12/04/2022 11:48, RJH wrote:
    I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad
    idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some
    garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my >> car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?

    Some of us boat owners have come up with a smarter method of draining
    the oil, especially when access to us underside of the sump is problematic:

    https://calcuttboatsshop.com/epages/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d/Products/POSP6
    https://www.enginesplus.co.uk/product/sump-pump/

    Usually a valve is incorporated in the flexible pipe and the pump hung
    on something convenient.

    Again, if you're going to get under the car and remove any guards to get
    access to the drain point, you might as well give a spanner a few turns and remove the sump plug.

    At least, I'm assuming that device is somewhere hard to access?
    --
    Cheers, Rob
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  • From Fredxx@fredxx@spam.uk to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Tue Apr 26 02:34:54 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance

    On 25/04/2022 21:43, RJH wrote:
    On 25 Apr 2022 at 15:30:38 BST, "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

    On 12/04/2022 11:48, RJH wrote:
    I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad
    idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some >>> garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my
    car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?

    Some of us boat owners have come up with a smarter method of draining
    the oil, especially when access to us underside of the sump is problematic: >>
    https://calcuttboatsshop.com/epages/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d/Products/POSP6
    https://www.enginesplus.co.uk/product/sump-pump/

    Usually a valve is incorporated in the flexible pipe and the pump hung
    on something convenient.

    Again, if you're going to get under the car and remove any guards to get access to the drain point, you might as well give a spanner a few turns and remove the sump plug.

    At least, I'm assuming that device is somewhere hard to access?

    Eh?

    This device effective replaces the sump plug with a hose and pump. On a narrowboat the sump is a few cm from the base. You simply place the pump
    at some convenient location.

    The most difficult part is then replacing the filter.


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  • From Peter Hill@skyshac@yahoo.com to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Tue Apr 26 10:27:40 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance

    On 26/04/2022 02:34, Fredxx wrote:
    On 25/04/2022 21:43, RJH wrote:
    On 25 Apr 2022 at 15:30:38 BST, "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

    On 12/04/2022 11:48, RJH wrote:
    I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they
    were a bad
    idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather
    some
    garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially
    as on my
    car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?

    Some of us boat owners have come up with a smarter method of draining
    the oil, especially when access to us underside of the sump is
    problematic:

    https://calcuttboatsshop.com/epages/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d/Products/POSP6

    -a-a-a https://www.enginesplus.co.uk/product/sump-pump/

    Usually a valve is incorporated in the flexible pipe and the pump hung
    on something convenient.

    Again, if you're going to get under the car and remove any guards to get
    access to the drain point, you might as well give a spanner a few
    turns and
    remove the sump plug.

    At least, I'm assuming that device is somewhere hard to access?

    Eh?

    This device effective replaces the sump plug with a hose and pump. On a narrowboat the sump is a few cm from the base. You simply place the pump
    at some convenient location.

    The most difficult part is then replacing the filter.



    Have they not heard about remote filter kits?

    But it adds at least 4 more joints that can piss oil.

    And needs more oil as the hoses to and from the remote filter have to be filled.
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  • From Abandoned_Trolley@fred@fred-smith.co.uk to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Tue Apr 26 11:01:13 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance




    Have they not heard about remote filter kits?

    But it adds at least 4 more joints that can piss oil.

    And needs more oil as the hoses to and from the remote filter have to be filled.


    might as well stick in an oil cooler while you are at it ?
    --
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  • From Fredxx@fredxx@spam.uk to uk.rec.cars.maintenance on Tue Apr 26 12:52:03 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.cars.maintenance

    On 26/04/2022 10:27, Peter Hill wrote:
    On 26/04/2022 02:34, Fredxx wrote:
    On 25/04/2022 21:43, RJH wrote:
    On 25 Apr 2022 at 15:30:38 BST, "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

    On 12/04/2022 11:48, RJH wrote:
    I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they
    were a bad
    idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather >>>>> some
    garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially >>>>> as on my
    car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views? >>>>
    Some of us boat owners have come up with a smarter method of draining
    the oil, especially when access to us underside of the sump is
    problematic:

    https://calcuttboatsshop.com/epages/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d/Products/POSP6

    -a-a-a https://www.enginesplus.co.uk/product/sump-pump/

    Usually a valve is incorporated in the flexible pipe and the pump hung >>>> on something convenient.

    Again, if you're going to get under the car and remove any guards to get >>> access to the drain point, you might as well give a spanner a few
    turns and
    remove the sump plug.

    At least, I'm assuming that device is somewhere hard to access?

    Eh?

    This device effective replaces the sump plug with a hose and pump. On
    a narrowboat the sump is a few cm from the base. You simply place the
    pump at some convenient location.

    The most difficult part is then replacing the filter.



    Have they not heard about remote filter kits?

    But it adds at least 4 more joints that can piss oil.

    And needs more oil as the hoses to and from the remote filter have to be filled.

    On the engine I have in mind access to the oil filter is good, so no
    need for a remote filter. Unscrewing the filter may require a tool, my
    point was that operating a handpump to empty the oil is a trivial operation.

    The remote oil filter may well be useful for some marinised engines.
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