• Re: Sony SS-CSD1 speakers

    From spam@spam@spam.com (Don Pearce) to uk.rec.audio on Wed Jul 20 10:45:02 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.audio

    On Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:53:42 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

    In article <tb41kp$ec8$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Andrew <Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote:
    My little Amptastic Mini amp drives them just fine for TV
    sound which is what they are for. Now I can hear bass that
    the previous Philips computer speakers didn't reproduce.
    Almost too much bass if anything, so I might try putting
    some 'bungs' in the rear ports to see what effect that has.
    I believe the Q accoustics speakers are rear-ported and
    come with a pair of 'bungs' for those situations that need
    them.

    Too much bass generally means massive resonances somewhere?

    All ported speakers work the same way. The driver has a resonance
    dictated by its equivalent mass and the elasticity of its surround.
    The port needs to have the same resonance frequency. Speaker and port
    are coupled well above criticality so the result is a pair of resonant
    peaks, one above Fr, and another below it. Normal tuning for a ported
    cabinet is that these will be equally spaced and hence of the same
    size. The result is that the frequency response is extended downwards.
    This all relies on the port having very little loss - just a mass of
    air in the port sprung by the compressible air in the cabinet.
    As soon as you start making the port lossy, by inserting foam or
    socks, the port resonance is damped and the cabinet ceases to be
    ported and reverts to a none-too-well defined more-or-less closed box.
    Both the bass humps will disappear as a result, and the overall bass
    response will lose probably as much as an octave.

    d
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  • From Andrew@Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com to uk.rec.audio on Wed Jul 20 12:16:29 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.audio

    It could be that I am hearing what I always should have heard because
    the previous arrangement was my HD-FOXT2 STB feeding my Amptastic Mini
    amp using phono connectors and a pair of re-purposed Phillips 320
    computer speakers (circa 2006 but without the original 'brick'
    PS/Amp). These were given a good review by various computer mags back
    in 2006, which is why I bought them. The amp subsequently developed a
    hum and the multiway 'din' connector that connected both speakers in
    one plug suffered bent pins, so I binned it and rewired the speakers.

    The Sony speakers are perched on top of my Wharfedale Linton 2's
    (for now) and about a foot away from the rear wall.

    Andrew

    On 20/07/2022 10:33, Brian Gaff wrote:
    Rear ported speakers are very sensitive to being placed in corners. Keep
    them away and not too close to a wall. Are you sure what you are hearing is not in fact merely a more extended bass?
    I know some resistive ports seem to be filled with what looks rather like a load of plastic drinking straws glued together.
    Brian


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  • From Woody@harrogate3@ntlworld.com to uk.rec.audio on Wed Jul 20 15:22:31 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.audio

    On Wed 20/07/2022 12:16, Andrew wrote:
    It could be that I am hearing what I always should have heard because
    the previous arrangement was my HD-FOXT2 STB feeding my Amptastic Mini
    amp using phono connectors and a pair of re-purposed Phillips 320
    computer speakers (circa 2006 but without the original 'brick'
    PS/Amp). These were given a good review by various computer mags back
    in 2006, which is why I bought them. The amp subsequently developed a
    hum and the multiway 'din' connector that connected both speakers in
    one plug suffered bent pins, so I binned it and rewired the speakers.

    The Sony speakers are perched on top of my Wharfedale Linton 2's
    (for now) and about a foot away from the rear wall.

    Andrew


    Another silly question: why don't you use the Linton's? I have a 20Wpc
    Class D amp (SMSL SA-36A Pro) driving a pair of Dentons as my computer speakers and they sound superb, especially on HD sound sources and
    recordings in flac or ogg format.

    [John Collinson (who was the speaker designer of that time at Wharfedale
    then at Idle in Bradford and before that was Chief Engineer at Quad)
    knew a thing or two about speakers. He left around 1973 and with another
    chap ex Wharfedale set up what was to become a well reputed speaker manufacturer - Castle Acoustics - in Skipton.]
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  • From Dave Plowman (News)@dave@davenoise.co.uk to uk.rec.audio on Wed Jul 20 16:44:15 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.audio

    In article <62d6eaad.39397750@news.eternal-september.org>,
    Don Pearce <spam@spam.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:53:42 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

    In article <tb41kp$ec8$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Andrew <Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote:
    My little Amptastic Mini amp drives them just fine for TV
    sound which is what they are for. Now I can hear bass that
    the previous Philips computer speakers didn't reproduce.
    Almost too much bass if anything, so I might try putting
    some 'bungs' in the rear ports to see what effect that has.
    I believe the Q accoustics speakers are rear-ported and
    come with a pair of 'bungs' for those situations that need
    them.

    Too much bass generally means massive resonances somewhere?

    And it won't actually be bass. Guaranteed it is over 100Hz.

    Yup. Even my pretty massive LS5/8 with 12" drivers need some extreme LF
    lift.
    --
    *If tennis elbow is painful, imagine suffering with tennis balls *

    Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
    To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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  • From Andrew@Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com to uk.rec.audio on Wed Jul 20 15:24:13 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.audio

    On 20/07/2022 15:22, Woody wrote:
    On Wed 20/07/2022 12:16, Andrew wrote:
    It could be that I am hearing what I always should have heard because
    the previous arrangement was my HD-FOXT2 STB feeding my Amptastic Mini
    amp using phono connectors and a pair of re-purposed Phillips 320
    computer speakers (circa 2006 but without the original 'brick'
    PS/Amp). These were given a good review by various computer mags back
    in 2006, which is why I bought them. The amp subsequently developed a
    hum and the multiway 'din' connector that connected both speakers in
    one plug suffered bent pins, so I binned it and rewired the speakers.

    The Sony speakers are perched on top of my Wharfedale Linton 2's
    (for now) and about a foot away from the rear wall.

    Andrew


    Another silly question: why don't you use the Linton's? I have a 20Wpc
    Class D amp (SMSL SA-36A Pro) driving a pair of Dentons as my computer speakers and they sound superb, especially on HD sound sources and recordings in flac or ogg format.

    I tried them for a few minutes and the little amp got noticibly warm
    whereas normally its case is cool to touch.

    The Linton 2's are connected to my Denon DRA-455 receiver and while this
    has an Audio input, connected to the Scart output of the HD-FOXT2, I
    then have to turn up the volume to get the same output as it gives on FM 'tuner' which is a pain, so I keep the 2 systems separate.

    The Linton 2's are quite big and I would prefer to replace them with
    something more modern and smaller. I have had them since 1978 when they
    were 1 year old, and purchased from a neighbour.

    The BHF ebay site has a pair of ProAcc Tablette ?10 speakers recently
    and they went for about -u300. I had never heard of them but they
    seem to be priced at well over -u1000 new, so someone got a bargain.

    https://audiot.co.uk/p-24466-proac-tablette-10-speakers-proac-audio-t.aspx

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vazjawwbzcg


    [John Collinson (who was the speaker designer of that time at Wharfedale then at Idle in Bradford and before that was Chief Engineer at Quad)
    knew a thing or two about speakers. He left around 1973 and with another chap ex Wharfedale set up what was to become a well reputed speaker manufacturer - Castle Acoustics - in Skipton.]

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  • From Andrew@Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com to uk.rec.audio on Wed Jul 20 15:34:39 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.audio

    On 20/07/2022 15:24, Andrew wrote:
    On 20/07/2022 15:22, Woody wrote:
    On Wed 20/07/2022 12:16, Andrew wrote:
    It could be that I am hearing what I always should have heard because
    the previous arrangement was my HD-FOXT2 STB feeding my Amptastic Mini
    amp using phono connectors and a pair of re-purposed Phillips 320
    computer speakers (circa 2006 but without the original 'brick'
    PS/Amp). These were given a good review by various computer mags back
    in 2006, which is why I bought them. The amp subsequently developed a
    hum and the multiway 'din' connector that connected both speakers in
    one plug suffered bent pins, so I binned it and rewired the speakers.

    The Sony speakers are perched on top of my Wharfedale Linton 2's
    (for now) and about a foot away from the rear wall.

    Andrew


    Another silly question: why don't you use the Linton's? I have a 20Wpc
    Class D amp (SMSL SA-36A Pro) driving a pair of Dentons as my computer
    speakers and they sound superb, especially on HD sound sources and
    recordings in flac or ogg format.

    I tried them for a few minutes and the little amp got noticibly warm
    whereas normally its case is cool to touch.

    The Linton 2's are connected to my Denon DRA-455 receiver and while this
    has an Audio input, connected to the Scart output of the HD-FOXT2, I
    then have to turn up the volume to get the same output as it gives on FM 'tuner' which is a pain, so I keep the 2 systems separate.

    The Linton 2's are quite big and I would prefer to replace them with something more modern and smaller. I have had them since 1978 when they
    were 1 year old, and purchased from a neighbour.

    The BHF ebay site has a pair of ProAcc Tablette ?10 speakers recently
    and they went for about -u300. I had never heard of them but they
    seem to be priced at well over -u1000 new, so someone got a bargain.

    https://audiot.co.uk/p-24466-proac-tablette-10-speakers-proac-audio-t.aspx

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vazjawwbzcg


    Actually they were Tablette 50 speakers, this is the listing


    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384962567686?hash=item59a18e9e06:g:SDkAAOSwQhJisjIC

    [John Collinson (who was the speaker designer of that time at
    Wharfedale then at Idle in Bradford and before that was Chief Engineer
    at Quad) knew a thing or two about speakers. He left around 1973 and
    with another chap ex Wharfedale set up what was to become a well
    reputed speaker manufacturer - Castle Acoustics - in Skipton.]


    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Phil Allison@pallison49@gmail.com to uk.rec.audio on Wed Jul 20 15:55:04 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.audio

    Dope Pearce wrote:
    ================

    Too much bass generally means massive resonances somewhere?

    ** Often a room effect and due to corner placement near the floor.

    All ported speakers work the same way.

    ** News to Messrs Theile and Small.


    The driver has a resonance
    dictated by its equivalent mass and the elasticity of its surround.
    The port needs to have the same resonance frequency.

    ** See above, there are many possible "alignments" not just the B4 one.

    Speaker and port
    are coupled well above criticality so the result is a pair of resonant peaks, one above Fr, and another below it.

    ** There are two *impedance* peaks with a dip in the middle where the woofer cone excursion is a minimum and the port output at a maximum. Response rolls off at 24dB/oct below that frequency, if aligned correctly.
    Plenty of software will predict the result for a given driver and box.
    But room dimensions and construction has an over riding effect in all cases.

    ...... Phil
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  • From Trevor Wilson@trevor@rageaudio.com.au to uk.rec.audio on Thu Jul 21 09:12:35 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.audio

    On 19/07/2022 2:27 am, Andrew wrote:
    Bought a pair of these in the Chichester British Heart Foundation shop
    and to my untrained ear they are quite good.

    Quite heavy, i.e. not the usual speakers sold with 'consumer'
    mini-systems, and with 4mm binding posts that take banana plugs.

    Rear-ported, and main drivers seem to made of some type of
    woven fabric. Tweeters seem to work (I can hear them both)
    and the rubber surrounds of the drive units are in perfect
    condition.

    Google doesn't find much data on them, so I assume they were
    part of a Sony system of some sort.

    My little Amptastic Mini amp drives them just fine for TV
    sound which is what they are for. Now I can hear bass that
    the previous Philips computer speakers didn't reproduce.
    Almost too much bass if anything, so I might try putting
    some 'bungs' in the rear ports to see what effect that has.
    I believe the Q accoustics speakers are rear-ported and
    come with a pair of 'bungs' for those situations that need
    them.

    What sort of material would be best ?

    **Put them on stands and move them away from corners and walls. You are
    likely getting too much 'room gain'.
    --
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  • From Woody@harrogate3@ntlworld.com to uk.rec.audio on Thu Jul 21 07:30:15 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.audio

    On Thu 21/07/2022 00:12, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 19/07/2022 2:27 am, Andrew wrote:
    Bought a pair of these in the Chichester British Heart Foundation shop
    and to my untrained ear they are quite good.

    Quite heavy, i.e. not the usual speakers sold with 'consumer'
    mini-systems, and with 4mm binding posts that take banana plugs.

    Rear-ported, and main drivers seem to made of some type of
    woven fabric. Tweeters seem to work (I can hear them both)
    and the rubber surrounds of the drive units are in perfect
    condition.

    Google doesn't find much data on them, so I assume they were
    part of a Sony system of some sort.

    My little Amptastic Mini amp drives them just fine for TV
    sound which is what they are for. Now I can hear bass that
    the previous Philips computer speakers didn't reproduce.
    Almost too much bass if anything, so I might try putting
    some 'bungs' in the rear ports to see what effect that has.
    I believe the Q accoustics speakers are rear-ported and
    come with a pair of 'bungs' for those situations that need
    them.

    What sort of material would be best ?

    **Put them on stands and move them away from corners and walls. You are likely getting too much 'room gain'.


    And with respect to Phil and Trevor that is <exactly> what I said last
    Monday early on in this thread.

    In that same contribution the comment I made about drinking straws is
    (was?) a well known solution to the port problem with Spendor BC1's.

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  • From spam@spam@spam.com (Don Pearce) to uk.rec.audio on Thu Jul 21 07:29:38 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.audio

    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 15:55:04 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
    <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

    Dope Pearce wrote:
    ================

    Too much bass generally means massive resonances somewhere?

    ** Often a room effect and due to corner placement near the floor.

    All ported speakers work the same way.

    ** News to Messrs Theile and Small.

    No it won't. They both understood overcoupled resonance.

    The driver has a resonance
    dictated by its equivalent mass and the elasticity of its surround.
    The port needs to have the same resonance frequency.

    ** See above, there are many possible "alignments" not just the B4 one.

    Not relevant to what I am saying. And you will find very few
    commercial speakers that don't use this alignment.

    Speaker and port
    are coupled well above criticality so the result is a pair of resonant
    peaks, one above Fr, and another below it.

    ** There are two *impedance* peaks with a dip in the middle where the woofer cone excursion is a minimum and the port output at a maximum. Response rolls off at 24dB/oct below that frequency, if aligned correctly.
    Plenty of software will predict the result for a given driver and box.

    And? We all know this.

    But room dimensions and construction has an over riding effect in all cases.

    We know that when it comes to woolly, boomy sounding speakers the room
    is not the overriding factor. Such speakers will sound bad in any
    room.
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  • From Phil Allison@pallison49@gmail.com to uk.rec.audio on Thu Jul 21 01:03:48 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.audio

    Dope Pearce wrote:
    ================

    Too much bass generally means massive resonances somewhere?

    ** Often a room effect and due to corner placement near the floor.

    All ported speakers work the same way.

    ** News to Messrs Theile and Small.

    No it won't.

    ** ROTFL !!

    They both understood overcoupled resonance.

    ** Not what you fucking posted - dope.



    The driver has a resonance
    dictated by its equivalent mass and the elasticity of its surround.
    The port needs to have the same resonance frequency.

    ** See above, there are many possible "alignments" not just the B4 one.

    Not relevant to what I am saying.

    ** Yawnnnnnnnn - shame about what you posted then.

    And you will find very few
    commercial speakers that don't use this alignment.

    ** Bullshit. QB3 is far more common.


    ** There are two *impedance* peaks with a dip in the middle where the woofer cone excursion is a minimum and the port output at a maximum. Response rolls off at 24dB/oct below that frequency, if aligned correctly.
    Plenty of software will predict the result for a given driver and box.

    And? We all know this.

    ** Wot were your mysterious "peaks" then ???

    But room dimensions and construction has an over riding effect in all cases.

    We know that when it comes to woolly, boomy sounding speakers

    ** Begs the question.

    Can the casual listener tell if it's the room or speaker that is actually "boomy."

    Or just Dope Peace who is balmy .......


    ..... Phil




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  • From spam@spam@spam.com (Don Pearce) to uk.rec.audio on Thu Jul 21 09:23:00 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.audio

    On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 01:03:48 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
    <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

    Dope Pearce wrote:
    ================

    Too much bass generally means massive resonances somewhere?

    ** Often a room effect and due to corner placement near the floor.

    All ported speakers work the same way.

    ** News to Messrs Theile and Small.

    No it won't.

    ** ROTFL !!

    They both understood overcoupled resonance.

    ** Not what you fucking posted - dope.



    The driver has a resonance
    dictated by its equivalent mass and the elasticity of its surround.
    The port needs to have the same resonance frequency.

    ** See above, there are many possible "alignments" not just the B4 one.

    Not relevant to what I am saying.

    ** Yawnnnnnnnn - shame about what you posted then.

    And you will find very few
    commercial speakers that don't use this alignment.

    ** Bullshit. QB3 is far more common.


    ** There are two *impedance* peaks with a dip in the middle where the woofer cone excursion is a minimum and the port output at a maximum. Response rolls off at 24dB/oct below that frequency, if aligned correctly.
    Plenty of software will predict the result for a given driver and box.

    And? We all know this.

    ** Wot were your mysterious "peaks" then ???

    But room dimensions and construction has an over riding effect in all cases.

    We know that when it comes to woolly, boomy sounding speakers

    ** Begs the question.

    Can the casual listener tell if it's the room or speaker that is actually "boomy."

    Or just Dope Peace who is balmy .......


    ..... Phil




    Sorry about this everybody, poor old Phil is really having to stretch
    to be a jerk here. Just ignore his desperate nit-picking and read what
    I wrote about applying heavy damping to one resonator in a coupled
    system. That is what happens when you put foam or socks in a speaker
    port.

    d
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  • From Brian Gaff@brian1gaff@gmail.com to uk.rec.audio on Thu Jul 21 17:15:40 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.audio

    Yes Dentons were way ahead of their times for 2 unit infinite baffle
    speakers and not prone to the polystyrene decay of some of the more up
    market speakers. I have some in the front sitting room, even an old fidelity amp sounds good on those.
    Brian
    --

    --:
    This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
    The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
    briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
    Blind user, so no pictures please
    Note this Signature is meaningless.!
    "Woody" <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:tb933a$1ltip$1@dont-email.me...
    On Wed 20/07/2022 12:16, Andrew wrote:
    It could be that I am hearing what I always should have heard because
    the previous arrangement was my HD-FOXT2 STB feeding my Amptastic Mini
    amp using phono connectors and a pair of re-purposed Phillips 320
    computer speakers (circa 2006 but without the original 'brick'
    PS/Amp). These were given a good review by various computer mags back
    in 2006, which is why I bought them. The amp subsequently developed a
    hum and the multiway 'din' connector that connected both speakers in
    one plug suffered bent pins, so I binned it and rewired the speakers.

    The Sony speakers are perched on top of my Wharfedale Linton 2's
    (for now) and about a foot away from the rear wall.

    Andrew


    Another silly question: why don't you use the Linton's? I have a 20Wpc
    Class D amp (SMSL SA-36A Pro) driving a pair of Dentons as my computer speakers and they sound superb, especially on HD sound sources and recordings in flac or ogg format.

    [John Collinson (who was the speaker designer of that time at Wharfedale then at Idle in Bradford and before that was Chief Engineer at Quad) knew
    a thing or two about speakers. He left around 1973 and with another chap
    ex Wharfedale set up what was to become a well reputed speaker
    manufacturer - Castle Acoustics - in Skipton.]


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  • From Andrew@Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com to uk.rec.audio on Thu Jul 21 19:59:20 2022
    From Newsgroup: uk.rec.audio

    And yet the Linton 2's were never held in high esteem by the
    people who regards themselves as hifi experts.

    2nd hand they go for about -u30 a pair, while other makes and models
    go for much more.

    I am quite surprised that after 44 years the rubber surrounds of the
    drivers are still in perfect condition.

    I did think of replacing them but it is now quite difficult to find
    a dealer where you can compare makes and models. Richer Sounds used
    to have listening rooms but not any more. These days it is all flat
    screen TV's and sound bases like Sonos that rule the roost.

    Andrew

    On 21/07/2022 17:15, Brian Gaff wrote:
    Yes Dentons were way ahead of their times for 2 unit infinite baffle
    speakers and not prone to the polystyrene decay of some of the more up
    market speakers. I have some in the front sitting room, even an old fidelity amp sounds good on those.
    Brian


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