Ah, the benefits of BrexitrCa
On 06/08/2026 20:17, Graeme Wall wrote:
Ah, the benefits of BrexitrCa
I thought it was a 'benefit' of EU rule - the EU loves unnecessary bureaucracy.
Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote: >>
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to actually do anything.
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to-
explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not >>> RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with
continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental
counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey.
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge >>> and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant; >>> or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky. >>
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably want to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train and
endure passport, customs & security checks.........
Amongst the other problems thererCOs these things called aeroplanes.
Rail
canrCOt even kill off the considerable Anglo Scotland passenger air traffic, never mind anything to continental Europe.
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 20:17, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 06/08/2026 19:40, Bevan Price wrote:
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com>
wrote:
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to- >>>>>> explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not >>>>> RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with
continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental >>>>> counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey.
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge >>>>> and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant; >>>>> or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing
arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky. >>>>
actually do anything.
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably
want to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train
and endure passport, customs & security checks.........
Ah, the benefits of BrexitrCa
Even prior to Brexit we were never in the Schengen area so controls
still existed, albeit less onerous.
Yes, the security checks were the same, and you always had the double passport check. The introduction of EES was the first time Brexit has made
a (modest) difference.
On 06/08/2026 22:41, JMB99 wrote:
On 06/08/2026 20:17, Graeme Wall wrote:
Ah, the benefits of BrexitrCa
I thought it was a 'benefit' of EU rule - the EU loves unnecessary >>bureaucracy.
The British complaining about other people's "unnecessary bureaucracy" >always makes me laugh!
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 20:17, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 06/08/2026 19:40, Bevan Price wrote:
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> >>>>>> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to- >>>>>>>> explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not >>>>>>> RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with
continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental >>>>>>> counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey.
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge >>>>>>> and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant; >>>>>>> or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing
arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky. >>>>>>
actually do anything.
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably >>>>> want to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train >>>>> and endure passport, customs & security checks.........
Ah, the benefits of BrexitrCa
Even prior to Brexit we were never in the Schengen area so controls
still existed, albeit less onerous.
Yes, the security checks were the same, and you always had the double
passport check. The introduction of EES was the first time Brexit has made >> a (modest) difference.
No, sorry. An earlier and less modest difference came by
intoduction of ETA, I guess for about half of the passengers,
not counting RoI traffic.
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to-
explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not
RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with
continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental
counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey.
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge
and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant;
or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing
arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky.
Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to
actually do anything.
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably want
to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train and
endure passport, customs & security checks.........
On 06/08/2026 21:40, Bevan Price wrote:
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote: >>
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to-
explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not >>> RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with
continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental
counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey.
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge >>> and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant; >>> or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing
arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky. >>
actually do anything.
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably want to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train and
endure passport, customs & security checks.........
Cross-border night-trains are hardly a novel invention, and these are problems solved everywhere else in the world by on-train inspection (and
a quick sweep down the train of sniffer dogs looking for anyone hiding
under a bed or the like.)
I've no doubt there is a litany of reasons why the UK border is
completely unique and
On 06/08/2026 21:40, Bevan Price wrote:
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote: >>>
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to-
explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not >>>> RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with
continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental
counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey.
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge >>>> and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant; >>>> or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing
arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky. >>>
actually do anything.
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably want
to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train and
endure passport, customs & security checks.........
Cross-border night-trains are hardly a novel invention, and these are problems solved everywhere else in the world by on-train inspection (and
a quick sweep down the train of sniffer dogs looking for anyone hiding
under a bed or the like.)
I've no doubt there is a litany of reasons why the UK border is
completely unique and would render this impossible...
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 21:40, Bevan Price wrote:
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote: >>>>
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to-
explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not >>>>> RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with
continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental
counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey.
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge >>>>> and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant; >>>>> or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing
arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky. >>>>
actually do anything.
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably want >>> to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train and
endure passport, customs & security checks.........
Cross-border night-trains are hardly a novel invention, and these are
problems solved everywhere else in the world by on-train inspection (and
a quick sweep down the train of sniffer dogs looking for anyone hiding
under a bed or the like.)
I've no doubt there is a litany of reasons why the UK border is
completely unique and would render this impossible...
The palaver for Eurostar passports, imposed by both UK and EU, should
answer your question.
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 21:40, Bevan Price wrote:
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote: >>>>
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to-
explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not >>>>> RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with
continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental
counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey.
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge >>>>> and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant; >>>>> or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing
arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky. >>>>
actually do anything.
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably want >>> to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train and
endure passport, customs & security checks.........
Cross-border night-trains are hardly a novel invention, and these are
problems solved everywhere else in the world by on-train inspection (and
a quick sweep down the train of sniffer dogs looking for anyone hiding
under a bed or the like.)
I've no doubt there is a litany of reasons why the UK border is
completely unique and would render this impossible...
The palaver for Eurostar passports, imposed by both UK and EU, should
answer your question.
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:The other problem is that a night sleeper is, at best, going to displace about one plane load of passengers travelling from Scotland. So a huge expense to little end other than to salve the conscience of a few rich eco warriors who canrCOt do calculations about scale.
On 06/08/2026 21:40, Bevan Price wrote:
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote: >>>>>
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to- >>>>>>> explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not >>>>>> RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with
continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental >>>>>> counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey.
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge >>>>>> and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant; >>>>>> or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing
arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky. >>>>>
actually do anything.
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably want >>>> to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train and
endure passport, customs & security checks.........
Cross-border night-trains are hardly a novel invention, and these are
problems solved everywhere else in the world by on-train inspection (and >>> a quick sweep down the train of sniffer dogs looking for anyone hiding
under a bed or the like.)
I've no doubt there is a litany of reasons why the UK border is
completely unique and would render this impossible...
The palaver for Eurostar passports, imposed by both UK and EU, should
answer your question.
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:The other problem is that a night sleeper is, at best, going to displace
On 06/08/2026 21:40, Bevan Price wrote:
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to- >>>>>>>> explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not >>>>>>> RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with
continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental >>>>>>> counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey.
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge >>>>>>> and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant; >>>>>>> or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing
arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky. >>>>>>
actually do anything.
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably want >>>>> to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train and
endure passport, customs & security checks.........
Cross-border night-trains are hardly a novel invention, and these are >>>> problems solved everywhere else in the world by on-train inspection (and >>>> a quick sweep down the train of sniffer dogs looking for anyone hiding >>>> under a bed or the like.)
I've no doubt there is a litany of reasons why the UK border is
completely unique and would render this impossible...
The palaver for Eurostar passports, imposed by both UK and EU, should
answer your question.
about one plane load of passengers travelling from Scotland. So a huge
expense to little end other than to salve the conscience of a few rich eco >> warriors who canrCOt do calculations about scale.
Very true.
And if you include all the activities associated with operating the sleeper train, I wonder how much greener it would be than a single A321neo flying from Edinburgh to CDG, where it connects with both local and long distance rail services?
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:The other problem is that a night sleeper is, at best, going to displace about one plane load of passengers travelling from Scotland. So a huge expense to little end other than to salve the conscience of a few rich eco warriors who canrCOt do calculations about scale.
On 06/08/2026 21:40, Bevan Price wrote:
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to- >>>>>>> explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not >>>>>> RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with
continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental >>>>>> counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey.
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge >>>>>> and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant;
or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing
arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky.
Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to
actually do anything.
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably want
to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train and
endure passport, customs & security checks.........
Cross-border night-trains are hardly a novel invention, and these are >>> problems solved everywhere else in the world by on-train inspection (and >>> a quick sweep down the train of sniffer dogs looking for anyone hiding >>> under a bed or the like.)
I've no doubt there is a litany of reasons why the UK border is
completely unique and would render this impossible...
The palaver for Eurostar passports, imposed by both UK and EU, should
answer your question.
Very true.
And if you include all the activities associated with operating the sleeper train, I wonder how much greener it would be than a single A321neo flying from Edinburgh to CDG, where it connects with both local and long distance rail services?
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:The other problem is that a night sleeper is, at best, going to displace >> about one plane load of passengers travelling from Scotland. So a huge
On 06/08/2026 21:40, Bevan Price wrote:
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to- >>>>>>>> explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not
RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with >>>>>>> continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental >>>>>>> counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey.
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge
and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant;
or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing
arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky.
Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to >>>>>> actually do anything.
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably want
to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train and >>>>> endure passport, customs & security checks.........
Cross-border night-trains are hardly a novel invention, and these are >>>> problems solved everywhere else in the world by on-train inspection (and
a quick sweep down the train of sniffer dogs looking for anyone hiding >>>> under a bed or the like.)
I've no doubt there is a litany of reasons why the UK border is
completely unique and would render this impossible...
The palaver for Eurostar passports, imposed by both UK and EU, should
answer your question.
expense to little end other than to salve the conscience of a few rich eco >> warriors who canrCOt do calculations about scale.
Very true.
And if you include all the activities associated with operating the sleeper train, I wonder how much greener it would be than a single A321neo flying from Edinburgh to CDG, where it connects with both local and long distance rail services?
The same thought had occurred to me. On a recent Eurostar to Brussels we
did end up chatting to someone who had come down from Glasgow by train and then caught our late afternoon service. He was off to a football match in Germany and wasnrCOt keen on flying. So itrCOs all perfectly possible without adding the complication of a sleeper to the mix.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:The other problem is that a night sleeper is, at best, going to displace >>> about one plane load of passengers travelling from Scotland. So a huge
On 06/08/2026 21:40, Bevan Price wrote:
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to- >>>>>>>>> explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not >>>>>>>> RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with >>>>>>>> continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental >>>>>>>> counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey.
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge >>>>>>>> and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant;
or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing
arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky.
Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to >>>>>>> actually do anything.
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably want
to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train and >>>>>> endure passport, customs & security checks.........
Cross-border night-trains are hardly a novel invention, and these are >>>>> problems solved everywhere else in the world by on-train inspection (and >>>>> a quick sweep down the train of sniffer dogs looking for anyone hiding >>>>> under a bed or the like.)
I've no doubt there is a litany of reasons why the UK border is
completely unique and would render this impossible...
The palaver for Eurostar passports, imposed by both UK and EU, should
answer your question.
expense to little end other than to salve the conscience of a few rich eco >>> warriors who canrCOt do calculations about scale.
Very true.
And if you include all the activities associated with operating the sleeper >> train, I wonder how much greener it would be than a single A321neo flying
from Edinburgh to CDG, where it connects with both local and long distance >> rail services?
If you take away overnighters, evening flights may not
connect to many long-distance rail services before next
morning.
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:The other problem is that a night sleeper is, at best, going to displace >>> about one plane load of passengers travelling from Scotland. So a huge >>> expense to little end other than to salve the conscience of a few rich eco
On 06/08/2026 21:40, Bevan Price wrote:
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to- >>>>>>>>> explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not
RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with >>>>>>>> continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental >>>>>>>> counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey.
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge
and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant;
or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing
arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky.
Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to >>>>>>> actually do anything.
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably want
to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train and >>>>>> endure passport, customs & security checks.........
Cross-border night-trains are hardly a novel invention, and these are >>>>> problems solved everywhere else in the world by on-train inspection (and
a quick sweep down the train of sniffer dogs looking for anyone hiding >>>>> under a bed or the like.)
I've no doubt there is a litany of reasons why the UK border is
completely unique and would render this impossible...
The palaver for Eurostar passports, imposed by both UK and EU, should >>>> answer your question.
warriors who canrCOt do calculations about scale.
Very true.
And if you include all the activities associated with operating the sleeper
train, I wonder how much greener it would be than a single A321neo flying >> from Edinburgh to CDG, where it connects with both local and long distance >> rail services?
If you take away overnighters, evening flights may not
connect to many long-distance rail services before next
morning.
ThererCOs lots of early morning flights out of Scotland to major European hubs. Or fly towards the end of the day and get a proper nightrCOs sleep at the far end airport hotel. Or train to London, stay over in London and
catch an early morning Eurostar. ThererCOs so many alternatives to a sleeper that are either more comfortable, convenient or cheaper.
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> posted:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
ThererCOs lots of early morning flights out of Scotland to major European
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:The other problem is that a night sleeper is, at best, going to displace >>>>> about one plane load of passengers travelling from Scotland. So a huge >>>>> expense to little end other than to salve the conscience of a few rich eco
On 06/08/2026 21:40, Bevan Price wrote:
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to- >>>>>>>>>>> explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not
RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with >>>>>>>>>> continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental >>>>>>>>>> counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey.
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge
and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant;
or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing
arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky.
Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to >>>>>>>>> actually do anything.
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably want
to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train and >>>>>>>> endure passport, customs & security checks.........
Cross-border night-trains are hardly a novel invention, and these are >>>>>>> problems solved everywhere else in the world by on-train inspection (and
a quick sweep down the train of sniffer dogs looking for anyone hiding >>>>>>> under a bed or the like.)
I've no doubt there is a litany of reasons why the UK border is >>>>>>> completely unique and would render this impossible...
The palaver for Eurostar passports, imposed by both UK and EU, should >>>>>> answer your question.
warriors who canrCOt do calculations about scale.
Very true.
And if you include all the activities associated with operating the sleeper
train, I wonder how much greener it would be than a single A321neo flying >>>> from Edinburgh to CDG, where it connects with both local and long distance >>>> rail services?
If you take away overnighters, evening flights may not
connect to many long-distance rail services before next
morning.
hubs. Or fly towards the end of the day and get a proper nightrCOs sleep at >> the far end airport hotel. Or train to London, stay over in London and
catch an early morning Eurostar. ThererCOs so many alternatives to a sleeper >> that are either more comfortable, convenient or cheaper.
I guess the most important word in your answer is "or".
Regards, ULF
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:The same thought had occurred to me. On a recent Eurostar to Brussels we
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:The other problem is that a night sleeper is, at best, going to displace >>>> about one plane load of passengers travelling from Scotland. So a huge >>>> expense to little end other than to salve the conscience of a few rich eco >>>> warriors who canrCOt do calculations about scale.
On 06/08/2026 21:40, Bevan Price wrote:
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to- >>>>>>>>>> explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not
RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with >>>>>>>>> continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental >>>>>>>>> counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey.
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge
and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant;
or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing
arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky.
Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to >>>>>>>> actually do anything.
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably want
to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train and >>>>>>> endure passport, customs & security checks.........
Cross-border night-trains are hardly a novel invention, and these are >>>>>> problems solved everywhere else in the world by on-train inspection (and
a quick sweep down the train of sniffer dogs looking for anyone hiding >>>>>> under a bed or the like.)
I've no doubt there is a litany of reasons why the UK border is
completely unique and would render this impossible...
The palaver for Eurostar passports, imposed by both UK and EU, should >>>>> answer your question.
Very true.
And if you include all the activities associated with operating the sleeper >>> train, I wonder how much greener it would be than a single A321neo flying >>> from Edinburgh to CDG, where it connects with both local and long distance >>> rail services?
did end up chatting to someone who had come down from Glasgow by train and >> then caught our late afternoon service. He was off to a football match in
Germany and wasnrCOt keen on flying. So itrCOs all perfectly possible without
adding the complication of a sleeper to the mix.
But he had to agree to fare masochism.
And he needed a place where to
sleep on the Continent. Don't think the football match tokk place that
very evening.
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:The same thought had occurred to me. On a recent Eurostar to Brussels we >> did end up chatting to someone who had come down from Glasgow by train and >> then caught our late afternoon service. He was off to a football match in >> Germany and wasnrCOt keen on flying. So itrCOs all perfectly possible without
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:The other problem is that a night sleeper is, at best, going to displace >>>> about one plane load of passengers travelling from Scotland. So a huge >>>> expense to little end other than to salve the conscience of a few rich eco
On 06/08/2026 21:40, Bevan Price wrote:
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to- >>>>>>>>>> explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not
RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with >>>>>>>>> continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental >>>>>>>>> counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey.
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge
and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant;
or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing
arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky.
Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to >>>>>>>> actually do anything.
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably want
to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train and >>>>>>> endure passport, customs & security checks.........
Cross-border night-trains are hardly a novel invention, and these are >>>>>> problems solved everywhere else in the world by on-train inspection (and
a quick sweep down the train of sniffer dogs looking for anyone hiding
under a bed or the like.)
I've no doubt there is a litany of reasons why the UK border is >>>>>> completely unique and would render this impossible...
The palaver for Eurostar passports, imposed by both UK and EU, should >>>>> answer your question.
warriors who canrCOt do calculations about scale.
Very true.
And if you include all the activities associated with operating the sleeper
train, I wonder how much greener it would be than a single A321neo flying >>> from Edinburgh to CDG, where it connects with both local and long distance
rail services?
adding the complication of a sleeper to the mix.
But he had to agree to fare masochism.
By using the train, you mean? Flying would be much cheaper.
And he needed a place where to
sleep on the Continent. Don't think the football match tokk place that
very evening.
HerCOd still have needed a German hotel room, even if he could have taken a sleeper train.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> posted:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:The same thought had occurred to me. On a recent Eurostar to Brussels we >>>> did end up chatting to someone who had come down from Glasgow by train and >>>> then caught our late afternoon service. He was off to a football match in >>>> Germany and wasnrCOt keen on flying. So itrCOs all perfectly possible without
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:The other problem is that a night sleeper is, at best, going to displace >>>>>> about one plane load of passengers travelling from Scotland. So a huge >>>>>> expense to little end other than to salve the conscience of a few rich eco
On 06/08/2026 21:40, Bevan Price wrote:
On 06/08/2026 16:18, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:12:18 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 15:48, ColinR wrote:
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-established-to- >>>>>>>>>>>> explore-caledonian-sleeper-links-to-mainland-europe/
More wasted money??
I saw this mentioned on BlueSky. For starters, the Mark 5 stock is not
RIC-compliant and is certainly not mechanically-compatible with >>>>>>>>>>> continental locos and stock.
Mark 5 stock is also smaller in loading gauge than its continental >>>>>>>>>>> counterparts, meaning cramped cabins for a long journey. >>>>>>>>>>>
So, either 1) the UK route is converted to international loading gauge
and new stock is ordered;
2) The stock is retained and heavily-modified to make it RIC-compliant;
or...
3) New UK-gauge stock is ordered but is RIC-compliant.
And we haven't even began to talk about border crossing >>>>>>>>>>> arrangements... :-)
Personally, I'd love to see #1 happen, but I think it's pie-in-the-sky.
Yes, this sounds like a way of keeping politicians happy, not to >>>>>>>>>> actually do anything.
And apart from any other problems, "the authorities" would probably want
to wake passengers in the middle of the night, leave the train and >>>>>>>>> endure passport, customs & security checks.........
Cross-border night-trains are hardly a novel invention, and these are >>>>>>>> problems solved everywhere else in the world by on-train inspection (and
a quick sweep down the train of sniffer dogs looking for anyone hiding
under a bed or the like.)
I've no doubt there is a litany of reasons why the UK border is >>>>>>>> completely unique and would render this impossible...
The palaver for Eurostar passports, imposed by both UK and EU, should >>>>>>> answer your question.
warriors who canrCOt do calculations about scale.
Very true.
And if you include all the activities associated with operating the sleeper
train, I wonder how much greener it would be than a single A321neo flying >>>>> from Edinburgh to CDG, where it connects with both local and long distance
rail services?
adding the complication of a sleeper to the mix.
But he had to agree to fare masochism.
By using the train, you mean? Flying would be much cheaper.
IIUC, they don't sell through train tickets
Scotland to Germany any more. Maybe last time
when they did, the fare included a ferry section,
e.g. to the not-existing-any-more Hoek van Holland
train station.
And ticket combinations might be expensive.
They do sell through air tickets if you do not insist
on non-direct FR and similar flights.
And he needed a place where to
sleep on the Continent. Don't think the football match tokk place that
very evening.
HerCOd still have needed a German hotel room, even if he could have taken a >> sleeper train.
Maybe after the match.
Cross-border night-trains are hardly a novel invention, and these are >problems solved everywhere else in the world by on-train inspection
(and a quick sweep down the train of sniffer dogs looking for anyone
hiding under a bed or the like.)
I've no doubt there is a litany of reasons why the UK border is
completely unique and would render this impossible...
The other problem is that a night sleeper is, at best, going to displace about one plane load of passengers travelling from Scotland. So a huge expense to little end other than to salve the conscience of a few rich eco warriors who canrCOt do calculations about scale.
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