From Newsgroup: uk.railway

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

ItrCOs interesting that LNER didnrCOt choose Hitachi for its small fleet of Class 897 tri-mode trains to replace the remaining IC225 trains. Instead,
it went to CAF and ordered a new design. IrCOm not sure if Hitachi was even invited to tender.

Paraphrasing what someone from LNER said at the time, CAF gave them a price they couldn't refuse. I think Hitachi were pricing in a premium based on compatibility with the existing Azumas, but CAF evidently wanted the
business much more.

Theo
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From Newsgroup: uk.railway

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

ItrCOs interesting that LNER didnrCOt choose Hitachi for its small fleet of >> Class 897 tri-mode trains to replace the remaining IC225 trains. Instead,
it went to CAF and ordered a new design. IrCOm not sure if Hitachi was even >> invited to tender.

Paraphrasing what someone from LNER said at the time, CAF gave them a price they couldn't refuse. I think Hitachi were pricing in a premium based on compatibility with the existing Azumas, but CAF evidently wanted the
business much more.

Thanks, yes, that makes sense. I do get the feeling that most of the CAF
wins have been based on price, rather than other factors.
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From Newsgroup: uk.railway

On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:23:28 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote:

On 06/08/2026 13:06, Recliner wrote:

This raises the question of whether the modifications to turn an 805 into
an 810 were developed by the former AnsaldoBreda plant, now renamed Hitachi >> Rail Italy S.p.A. This was the plant that produced the infamous Fyra
trains that were soon withdrawn from service, and the whole fleet returned >> to sender.

That works turned out the BM 72 units for Norway, which had terrible >reliability initially*. Then DSB order the IC4, of which the order was
never completed and the units were withdrawn by 2024. One unit ended up
in Iraq!

Not learning from their counterparts, NS then ordered the Fyra sets
which were eventually returned for refund. I believe they were being
rebuilt for another operator!

Not content with that, UK operators put all their eggs in one basket and >begin to receive the same shit from a renamed works.

I wonder if the 810s are performing badly enough for EMR to do what NS did, and reject them altogether, with a refund
due to Rock?
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From Newsgroup: uk.railway

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 16:23:28 +0100, Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote:

On 06/08/2026 13:06, Recliner wrote:

This raises the question of whether the modifications to turn an 805 into >>> an 810 were developed by the former AnsaldoBreda plant, now renamed Hitachi >>> Rail Italy S.p.A. This was the plant that produced the infamous Fyra
trains that were soon withdrawn from service, and the whole fleet returned >>> to sender.

That works turned out the BM 72 units for Norway, which had terrible
reliability initially*. Then DSB order the IC4, of which the order was
never completed and the units were withdrawn by 2024. One unit ended up
in Iraq!

Not learning from their counterparts, NS then ordered the Fyra sets
which were eventually returned for refund. I believe they were being
rebuilt for another operator!

Not content with that, UK operators put all their eggs in one basket and
begin to receive the same shit from a renamed works.

I wonder if the 810s are performing badly enough for EMR to do what NS
did, and reject them altogether, with a refund
due to Rock?

Looking at the Market Harborough departures board, things seem to be
improving over the last few days. ItrCOs no longer a sea of cancellations.
But of course the service is a mix of 810s and 222s. Perhaps theyrCOve got
both working somewhat better. ItrCOs hard to see them rejecting the 810s as thererCOs little to replace them with.

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From Newsgroup: uk.railway

On Fri, 7 Aug 2026 12:55:09 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

I wonder if the 810s are performing badly enough for EMR to do what NS
did, and reject them altogether, with a refund
due to Rock?

Looking at the Market Harborough departures board, things seem to be >improving over the last few days. ItrCOs no longer a sea of cancellations.

Perhaps because some services have been removed from the timetable?

But of course the service is a mix of 810s and 222s. Perhaps theyrCOve got >both working somewhat better.

They could soon have a third fleet, of six 221 sets. That should make reservations impossible!

ItrCOs hard to see them rejecting the 810s as
thererCOs little to replace them with.

They only risk running four 810s a day, and may soon have six 221s, of which five could probably be diagrammed each day.

Here's a statement from EMR:

https://www.modernrailways.com/article/emr-reveals-timetable-aim-no-dates-are-yet-confirmed

In a video posted on social media on 5 August, EMR Interim Managing Director Neil Grabham said the operator was planning
to reintroduce the timetable in a staged way, and explained EMR was: rCLworking really hard with other train operators and
also with the DFTO to explore any and all available fleet options that are out there to enable us to strengthen the
fleet that we've got at our disposal and build back that timetable as quickly as possible.rCY

EMR introduced a temporary timetable on 20 July due to reliability issues caused by the troubled introduction of the
Hitachi Class 810 bi-mode units and the same companyrCOs maintenance of the Class 222s. In a statement on 17 July about
that situation, EMR said: rCLThe introduction of the new Class 810 fleet was designed to provide a smooth transition from
the Class 222 fleet, with a significant period where both fleets would operate alongside one another under the
maintenance of Hitachi Rail.

rCLHowever, a three-year delay in the first Class 810 trains coming into service, together with ongoing service
reliability and maintenance issues across both fleets, has significantly impacted upon EMRrCOs ability to run a reliable
Intercity service.rCY

EMR said that service reliability hadnrCOt reached the standard EMR expects. A rollout of the rCy810srCO is expected to
continue in a rCLcontrolled mannerrCY throughout 2026/27. The trains were introduced into revenue service in December 2025,
but no more than six have ever been used per day and none have operated in multiple in passenger service. Currently four
rCy810srCO are used per day while one set, No 810020, has been sent to Long Marston for testing. Only 11 sets have been used
in passenger service while many sets have yet to even leave Newton Aycliffe, where they are being manufactured.

In his video, Mr Grabham, who replaced previous MD Will Rogers on 27 July, when answering a question about the eventual
return of reservations, said: rCLItrCOs a particularly complex challenge to reservations at the moment. WerCOre operating with
two fleet types and potentially we might be bringing in a third fleet type, which will make it very difficult for us to
be able to put reservations back in place quickly. As soon as werCOre able to stabilise our fleet and as soon as we can
bring that reservation system back in, we absolutely will do.rCY

Speaking about capacity, he said improving that was: rCLobviously really important to us and werCOre really keen to do that
at the earliest opportunity. But at the moment, our plan focuses on stabilising our existing services and creating
certainty for the passengers who are travelling with us. We are looking to build our timetable back in a staged way as
quickly as possible and as soon as I can make announcements about how we will increase that capacity or let you know.rCY

Six five-car Class 221s are currently stored at AlstomrCOs Derby Litchurch Lane, having been removed from traffic in
late-2024 following the introduction of the Hitachi Class 805 Everos with Avanti West Coast. Former EMR No 222104 is
also stored at the site having been sent off-lease ahead of its transfer to ScotRail.

Five six-car Class 222s moved to open access operator Lumo for its West Coast main line operations following the
introduction of the rCy810srCO, with the remaining Class 222s due to leave EMR for ScotRail from early 2027 with all in
traffic north of the border by December 2028.
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From Newsgroup: uk.railway

In message <1154kjd$lurv$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:55:09 on Fri, 7 Aug
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

Looking at the Market Harborough departures board, things seem to be >improving over the last few days. ItrCOs no longer a sea of cancellations.

But the departure board will only be showing cancellations from
the slimmed-down timetable, not the full one they are supposed
to be running.
--
Roland Perry
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From Newsgroup: uk.railway

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

In message <1154kjd$lurv$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:55:09 on Fri, 7 Aug
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

Looking at the Market Harborough departures board, things seem to be
improving over the last few days. ItrCOs no longer a sea of cancellations.

But the departure board will only be showing cancellations from
the slimmed-down timetable, not the full one they are supposed
to be running.

The slimmed down timetable was a sea of cancellations and delays not so
long ago.

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From Newsgroup: uk.railway

Robert <monstoor@spammedia.com> wrote:

[snip]
Not learning from their counterparts, NS then ordered the Fyra sets
which were eventually returned for refund. I believe they were being
rebuilt for another operator!

They became TrenitaliarCOs ETR700 Frecciargento sets. I travelled on one
once (Verona - Milan, I think) and it was as good as the other (very good) Italian express trains. I have no idea about the more specific aspects of
the service - how reliable they are, for instance.

ISTR one of the problems they had in NS/SNCB service was that the underside
was built with features that would scoop snow into places where snow shouldnrCOt go.

Sam
--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply
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