IrCOm watching Michael PortillorCOs Japan programmes. One thing IrCOm curious about - why do the Shinkansen trains have such small windows?
IrCOm watching Michael PortillorCOs Japan programmes. One thing IrCOm curious about - why do the Shinkansen trains have such small windows?
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
IAm watching Michael PortilloAs Japan programmes. One thing IAm curious
about - why do the Shinkansen trains have such small windows?
Probably to cut the weight. The early Shinkansen routes were mostly in >tunnel, so there wasnAt much of a view to look at. The windows seem fine
when youAre travelling, as they line up nicely.
On Thu, 07 May 2026 21:25:23 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:Also for the same reason that aircraft have small windows - they have
I-Am watching Michael Portillo-As Japan programmes. One thing I-Am curious >>> about - why do the Shinkansen trains have such small windows?
Probably to cut the weight. The early Shinkansen routes were mostly in
tunnel, so there wasn-At much of a view to look at. The windows seem fine
when you-Are travelling, as they line up nicely.
an effect on structural integrity, a more significant matter at
Japanese speeds.
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On Thu, 07 May 2026 21:25:23 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:Also for the same reason that aircraft have small windows - they have
I?m watching Michael Portillo?s Japan programmes. One thing I?m curious >>>> about - why do the Shinkansen trains have such small windows?
Probably to cut the weight. The early Shinkansen routes were mostly in
tunnel, so there wasn?t much of a view to look at. The windows seem fine >>> when you?re travelling, as they line up nicely.
an effect on structural integrity, a more significant matter at
Japanese speeds.
TGVs travel at the same speeds, and have normal-sized train windows.
On Sun, 10 May 2026 10:07:28 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:Are they of the same weight and structure ?
On Thu, 07 May 2026 21:25:23 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:Also for the same reason that aircraft have small windows - they have
I?m watching Michael Portillo?s Japan programmes. One thing I?m curious >>>>> about - why do the Shinkansen trains have such small windows?
Probably to cut the weight. The early Shinkansen routes were mostly in >>>> tunnel, so there wasn?t much of a view to look at. The windows seem fine >>>> when you?re travelling, as they line up nicely.
an effect on structural integrity, a more significant matter at
Japanese speeds.
TGVs travel at the same speeds, and have normal-sized train windows.
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 10:07:28 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:Are they of the same weight and structure ?
On Thu, 07 May 2026 21:25:23 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> >>> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:Also for the same reason that aircraft have small windows - they have
I?m watching Michael Portillo?s Japan programmes. One thing I?m curious >>>>> about - why do the Shinkansen trains have such small windows?
Probably to cut the weight. The early Shinkansen routes were mostly in >>>> tunnel, so there wasn?t much of a view to look at. The windows seem fine >>>> when you?re travelling, as they line up nicely.
an effect on structural integrity, a more significant matter at
Japanese speeds.
TGVs travel at the same speeds, and have normal-sized train windows.
Almost certainly not. TGVs are articulated, Shinkansens have conventional bogies. The Shinkansens are one seat wider, but now only single deck (there was the double-decker E4 model, but it wasnrCOt regarded as a success, and they were retired early).
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 10:07:28 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:Are they of the same weight and structure ?
On Thu, 07 May 2026 21:25:23 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:Also for the same reason that aircraft have small windows - they have >>>>> an effect on structural integrity, a more significant matter at
I?m watching Michael Portillo?s Japan programmes. One thing I?m curious >>>>>>> about - why do the Shinkansen trains have such small windows?
Probably to cut the weight. The early Shinkansen routes were mostly in >>>>>> tunnel, so there wasn?t much of a view to look at. The windows seem fine >>>>>> when you?re travelling, as they line up nicely.
Japanese speeds.
TGVs travel at the same speeds, and have normal-sized train windows.
Almost certainly not. TGVs are articulated, Shinkansens have conventional
bogies. The Shinkansens are one seat wider, but now only single deck (there >> was the double-decker E4 model, but it wasnrCOt regarded as a success, and >> they were retired early).
There was some 3+3 on Shinkansen...
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 10:07:28 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> >>> wrote:
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:Are they of the same weight and structure ?
On Thu, 07 May 2026 21:25:23 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:Also for the same reason that aircraft have small windows - they have >>>>> an effect on structural integrity, a more significant matter at
I?m watching Michael Portillo?s Japan programmes. One thing I?m curious
about - why do the Shinkansen trains have such small windows?
Probably to cut the weight. The early Shinkansen routes were mostly in >>>>>> tunnel, so there wasn?t much of a view to look at. The windows seem fine
when you?re travelling, as they line up nicely.
Japanese speeds.
TGVs travel at the same speeds, and have normal-sized train windows. >>>>
Almost certainly not. TGVs are articulated, Shinkansens have conventional >> bogies. The Shinkansens are one seat wider, but now only single deck (there
was the double-decker E4 model, but it wasnrCOt regarded as a success, and >> they were retired early).
There was some 3+3 on Shinkansen...
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First) class is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which we canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a success).
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First) class >> is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which we >> canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car...
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First) class
is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which we
canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car...
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.
Rather ironic really.
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First) class
is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK >>>> standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which we
canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car...
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.
Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 10:07:28 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> >>>> wrote:
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:Are they of the same weight and structure ?
On Thu, 07 May 2026 21:25:23 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:Also for the same reason that aircraft have small windows - they have >>>>>> an effect on structural integrity, a more significant matter at
I?m watching Michael Portillo?s Japan programmes. One thing I?m curious
about - why do the Shinkansen trains have such small windows?
Probably to cut the weight. The early Shinkansen routes were mostly in >>>>>>> tunnel, so there wasn?t much of a view to look at. The windows seem fine
when you?re travelling, as they line up nicely.
Japanese speeds.
TGVs travel at the same speeds, and have normal-sized train windows. >>>>>
Almost certainly not. TGVs are articulated, Shinkansens have conventional >>> bogies. The Shinkansens are one seat wider, but now only single deck (there >>> was the double-decker E4 model, but it wasnrCOt regarded as a success, and >>> they were retired early).
There was some 3+3 on Shinkansen...
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First) class is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which we canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a success).
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First) >class
is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK >>>>> standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which >we
canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a >success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car...
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.
Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
success).is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK >>>>>> standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which >> we
canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car...
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>> Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I
No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First) class >>> is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which we >>> canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car...
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.
Rather ironic really.
According to <boltar@caprica.universe>:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First) class
is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK >>>> standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which we
canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car...
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.
Rather ironic really.
What's the largest passenger loading gauge if you don't have a car? Amtrak superliners
are North American plate F, 5.18m.
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.
Rather ironic really.
What's the largest passenger loading gauge if you don't have a car? Amtrak superliners
are North American plate F, 5.18m.
Shinkansens are at least 6rCY wider, maybe as much as 9rCY.
According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>> Rather ironic really.
What's the largest passenger loading gauge if you don't have a car? Amtrak superliners
are North American plate F, 5.18m.
Shinkansens are at least 6rCY wider, maybe as much as 9rCY.
They're still pretty small compared to North American trains. In the northeast, the
trains are 3.2m wide, 4.42m high, limited by tunnels in New York and Baltimore.
Elsewhere the height is 5.03m and there are a few lines in the west 6.03 high.
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>> Rather ironic really.
What's the largest passenger loading gauge if you don't have a car? Amtrak superliners
are North American plate F, 5.18m.
Shinkansens are at least 6rCY wider, maybe as much as 9rCY.
They're still pretty small compared to North American trains. In the northeast, the
trains are 3.2m wide, 4.42m high, limited by tunnels in New York and Baltimore.
Shinkansens go up to 3.38m wide.
Elsewhere the height is 5.03m and there are a few lines in the west 6.03 high.
Yes, some North American trains are very high, much higher than
Shinkansens. I believe Russian train heights are routinely 5.3m, but can be up to 6.4m.
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
According to <boltar@caprica.universe>:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First) >class
is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK >>>>> standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which >we
canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a >success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car...
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.
Rather ironic really.
What's the largest passenger loading gauge if you don't have a car? Amtrak >superliners
are North American plate F, 5.18m.
Shinkansens are at least 6rCY wider, maybe as much as 9rCY.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 17:30:06 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
According to <boltar@caprica.universe>:we
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First) >class
is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK >>>>> standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
superlinerscanrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a >success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car...
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>> Rather ironic really.
What's the largest passenger loading gauge if you don't have a car? Amtrak
are North American plate F, 5.18m.
Shinkansens are at least 6rCY wider, maybe as much as 9rCY.
Nowhere near as high though.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First) >>class
is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK >>>>>> standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which >>we
canAt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnAt a >>success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car...
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>> Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I
No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter.
Nowhere near as high though.
So one would have to look at Putin country. >https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%
D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA_(%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4)#/media/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0
%BB:%D0%AD%D0%9F20-002_%D1%81_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BC_%D0%91
%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA.jpg
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>>> Rather ironic really.
What's the largest passenger loading gauge if you don't have a car? Amtrak superliners
are North American plate F, 5.18m.
Shinkansens are at least 6rCY wider, maybe as much as 9rCY.
They're still pretty small compared to North American trains. In the northeast, the
trains are 3.2m wide, 4.42m high, limited by tunnels in New York and Baltimore.
Shinkansens go up to 3.38m wide.
Elsewhere the height is 5.03m and there are a few lines in the west 6.03 high.
Yes, some North American trains are very high, much higher than
Shinkansens. I believe Russian train heights are routinely 5.3m, but can be up to 6.4m.
Incidentally, Indian trains can also be very wide, possibly the widest of all. I think they can go up to 3.4m, and routinely are 3.25m wide.
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also
Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>>> Rather ironic really.
What's the largest passenger loading gauge if you don't have a car? Amtrak superliners
are North American plate F, 5.18m.
Shinkansens are at least 6rCY wider, maybe as much as 9rCY.
They're still pretty small compared to North American trains. In the northeast, the
trains are 3.2m wide, 4.42m high, limited by tunnels in New York and Baltimore.
Shinkansens go up to 3.38m wide.
Elsewhere the height is 5.03m and there are a few lines in the west 6.03 high.
Yes, some North American trains are very high, much higher than Shinkansens. I believe Russian train heights are routinely 5.3m, but can be up to 6.4m.
Incidentally, Indian trains can also be very wide, possibly the widest of all. I think they can go up to 3.4m, and routinely are 3.25m wide.
In the European sphere Sweden has one of the wider loading gauges , width 3.4M on the whole with 3.6 on some routes with heights of 4.65 and 4.83 respectively .
Plainly wagons that travel internationally cannot make use of these clearances but within the country
they have some wagons that do such as this Timber traffic.
< https://www.innofreight.com/en/news-archive/750000-cubic-meters-of-roundwood-with-the-swedish-smart-gigawood/>
On Tue, 12 May 2026 09:21:12 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled: >boltar@caprica.universe posted:
Nowhere near as high though.
So one would have to look at Putin country. >https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%
D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA_(%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4)#/media/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0
%BB:%D0%AD%D0%9F20-002_%D1%81_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BC_%D0%91
%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA.jpg
The eurotunnel stock is 5.6m high. That russian stock doesn't look that high to me using the people standing next to it as a guide, but its hard to tell just from a picture.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more >> railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also
Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate >different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get
upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more >> railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also
Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get
upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
On 12 May 2026 09:32:36 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more >> railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also
Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate >different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get >upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
I imagine the japanese are too smart and respect their own culture way too much
to have falled for the multiculti left wing snake oil the west has been sold for the last 50 years.
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On 12 May 2026 09:32:36 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more >>>> railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also >>>> Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate >>> different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get
upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
I imagine the japanese are too smart and respect their own culture way too much
to have falled for the multiculti left wing snake oil the west has been sold
for the last 50 years.
Hm. https://sumikai.com/nachrichten-aus-japan/shibuya-kaempft-gegen-graffiti-369782/
Well, some of the problem is brought by Westerners.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 09:21:12 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
Nowhere near as high though.
So one would have to look at Putin country.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%
D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA_(%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4)#/media/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0
%BB:%D0%AD%D0%9F20-002_%D1%81_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BC_%D0%91
%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA.jpg
The eurotunnel stock is 5.6m high. That russian stock doesn't look that high to me using the people standing next to it as a guide, but its hard to tell just from a picture.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
we
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First) >>> class
is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK >>>>>>> standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
success).canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car...
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>>> Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I
No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter.
Green Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the
length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't
align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On 12 May 2026 09:32:36 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more
railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also >>>>> Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate >>>> different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get >>>> upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
I imagine the japanese are too smart and respect their own culture way too much
to have falled for the multiculti left wing snake oil the west has been sold
for the last 50 years.
Hm.
https://sumikai.com/nachrichten-aus-japan/shibuya-kaempft-gegen-graffiti-369782/
Well, some of the problem is brought by Westerners.
Graffiti seems worse in mainland Europe than UK. Belgium trains are often covered and Swiss railway infrastructure is covered surprisingly often.
Well surprising to me, IrCOd imagine the Swiss not to be tolerant of this sort of thing.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Tue, 12 May 2026 09:21:12 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
Nowhere near as high though.
So one would have to look at Putin country.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%
D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA_(%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4)#/media/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0
%BB:%D0%AD%D0%9F20-002_%D1%81_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BC_%D0%91
%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA.jpg
The eurotunnel stock is 5.6m high. That russian stock doesn't look that high
to me using the people standing next to it as a guide, but its hard to tell
just from a picture.
The really high trains are usually freights, not passenger.
According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>> Rather ironic really.
What's the largest passenger loading gauge if you don't have a car? Amtrak superliners
are North American plate F, 5.18m.
Shinkansens are at least 6rCY wider, maybe as much as 9rCY.
They're still pretty small compared to North American trains. In the northeast, the
trains are 3.2m wide, 4.42m high, limited by tunnels in New York and Baltimore.
Elsewhere the height is 5.03m and there are a few lines in the west 6.03 high.
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMTGreen Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter. >>
we
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First) >>>> class
is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a >>>> success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car...
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>>>> Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I >>>
length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't
align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can
choose his stopping point.
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMTGreen Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter. >>
we
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First) >>>> class
is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a >>>> success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car...
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>>>> Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I >>>
length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't
align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can
choose his stopping point.
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMTGreen Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter. >>>
we
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First) >>>>> class
is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a >>>>> success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car...
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>>>>> Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I >>>>
length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't
align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can
choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length from the exit.
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMTGreen Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter. >>>
we
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First) >>>>> class
is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a >>>>> success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car...
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>>>>> Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I >>>>
length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't
align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can
choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length from the exit.
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On 12 May 2026 09:32:36 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more
railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also >>>>> Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate >>>> different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get >>>> upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
I imagine the japanese are too smart and respect their own culture way too much
to have falled for the multiculti left wing snake oil the west has been sold
for the last 50 years.
Hm.
https://sumikai.com/nachrichten-aus-japan/shibuya-kaempft-gegen-graffiti-369782/
Well, some of the problem is brought by Westerners.
Graffiti seems worse in mainland Europe than UK. Belgium trains are often covered and Swiss railway infrastructure is covered surprisingly often.
Well surprising to me, IrCOd imagine the Swiss not to be tolerant of this sort of thing.
On 12/05/2026 12:21, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:So assuming the Thalys is as long or longer than a E* then there should
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMTGreen Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter. >>>>
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>>>>>> Rather ironic really.canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a >>>>>> success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I >>>>>
length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't
align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can
choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so >> wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length >> from the exit.
be no problem.
On 12/05/2026 12:21, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:So assuming the Thalys is as long or longer than a E* then there should
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green >>>>>>>>>> (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as >>>>>>>>>> wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double- >>>>>>>>>> deckers, which
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the >>>>>>>> world.canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a >>>>>> success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>
Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P,
which I
No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another
matter.
Green Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the
length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't
align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can
choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency
exits, so
wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach
length
from the exit.
be no problem.
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>> Rather ironic really.
What's the largest passenger loading gauge if you don't have a car? Amtrak superliners
are North American plate F, 5.18m.
Shinkansens are at least 6rCY wider, maybe as much as 9rCY.
They're still pretty small compared to North American trains. In the northeast, the
trains are 3.2m wide, 4.42m high, limited by tunnels in New York and Baltimore.
That's (slightly) smaller than the biggest Shinkansen - the E4 was 3.38m (11.1 feet) wide
and 4.485m (14.7 feet) high.
Elsewhere the height is 5.03m and there are a few lines in the west 6.03 high.
On 12/05/2026 11:55, Tweed wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On 12 May 2026 09:32:36 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more
railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also >>>>> Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate >>>> different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get >>>> upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
I imagine the japanese are too smart and respect their own culture way too much
to have falled for the multiculti left wing snake oil the west has been sold
for the last 50 years.
Hm.
https://sumikai.com/nachrichten-aus-japan/shibuya-kaempft-gegen-graffiti-369782/
Well, some of the problem is brought by Westerners.
Graffiti seems worse in mainland Europe than UK. Belgium trains are often covered and Swiss railway infrastructure is covered surprisingly often. Well surprising to me, IrCOd imagine the Swiss not to be tolerant of this sort of thing.
Perhaps Europeans are more pragmatic and send trains out covered in tags whereas a British TOC would withdraw them for service until cleaned.
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more >>> railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also
Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate
different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get
upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
You donrCOt come across any graffiti anywhere in east Asia. ItrCOs alien their
Confucian culture. I once asked a guide about the complete absence of graffiti there, and he just wasnrCOt aware of the concept of it.
Japan did have immigrants from nearby Korea, but really resisted fully integrating them, even generations later.
On 12/05/2026 11:55, Tweed wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On 12 May 2026 09:32:36 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more
railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also >>>>>> Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate >>>>> different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get >>>>> upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
I imagine the japanese are too smart and respect their own culture way too much
to have falled for the multiculti left wing snake oil the west has been sold
for the last 50 years.
Hm.
https://sumikai.com/nachrichten-aus-japan/shibuya-kaempft-gegen-graffiti-369782/
Well, some of the problem is brought by Westerners.
Graffiti seems worse in mainland Europe than UK. Belgium trains are often
covered and Swiss railway infrastructure is covered surprisingly often.
Well surprising to me, IrCOd imagine the Swiss not to be tolerant of this
sort of thing.
Perhaps Europeans are more pragmatic and send trains out covered in tags >whereas a British TOC would withdraw them for service until cleaned.
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more >>> railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also
Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate
different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get
upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
You donrCOt come across any graffiti anywhere in east Asia. ItrCOs alien their >Confucian culture. I once asked a guide about the complete absence of >graffiti there, and he just wasnrCOt aware of the concept of it.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 12:33:41 +0100, Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote: >>Perhaps Europeans are more pragmatic and send trains out covered in tags >>whereas a British TOC would withdraw them for service until cleaned.
That's normally the case, and LU in particular tries hard not to put >graffiti-covered trains on display for the
'artistes' and their fellow contestants to admire. But, sometimes, it has no >choice. For example, I spotted this
unfortunate Bakerloo Line train recently:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/55265596079/
It's hard enough for the depot to keep these elderly, worn-out trains in >service at all, but to also have to deal with
this aggressive vandalism must be heart-breaking.
On 12/05/2026 11:55, Tweed wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On 12 May 2026 09:32:36 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more
railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also >>>>>> Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate >>>>> different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get >>>>> upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
I imagine the japanese are too smart and respect their own culture way too much
to have falled for the multiculti left wing snake oil the west has been sold
for the last 50 years.
Hm.
https://sumikai.com/nachrichten-aus-japan/shibuya-kaempft-gegen-graffiti-369782/
Well, some of the problem is brought by Westerners.
Graffiti seems worse in mainland Europe than UK. Belgium trains are often
covered and Swiss railway infrastructure is covered surprisingly often.
Well surprising to me, IrCOd imagine the Swiss not to be tolerant of this
sort of thing.
Perhaps Europeans are more pragmatic and send trains out covered in tags whereas a British TOC would withdraw them for service until cleaned.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 14:23:44 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
On Tue, 12 May 2026 12:33:41 +0100, Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
Perhaps Europeans are more pragmatic and send trains out covered in tags >>> whereas a British TOC would withdraw them for service until cleaned.
That's normally the case, and LU in particular tries hard not to put
graffiti-covered trains on display for the
'artistes' and their fellow contestants to admire. But, sometimes, it has no >> choice. For example, I spotted this
unfortunate Bakerloo Line train recently:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/55265596079/
LU seems to have given up cleaning the piccadilly line trains on the outside. The state of some of them when I travelled on the line last week is shocking.
It's hard enough for the depot to keep these elderly, worn-out trains in
service at all, but to also have to deal with
this aggressive vandalism must be heart-breaking.
LU only has itself to blame. High solid steel bar fencing topped with spikes or barbed wire and security with dogs would stop the problem overnight. But seems they can't be bothered.
Even a middle aged man like me could get into cockfosters depot or arnos grove sidings without too much hassle, never mind some monkey like
teenager. Presumably cleaning the trains is cheaper.
On 12/05/2026 12:21, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:So assuming the Thalys is as long or longer than a E* then there should
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMTGreen Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter. >>>>
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>>>>>> Rather ironic really.canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a >>>>>> success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I >>>>>
length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't
align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can
choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so >> wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length >> from the exit.
be no problem.
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMTGreen Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter. >>>>
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>>>>>> Rather ironic really.canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a >>>>>> success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I >>>>>
length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't
align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can
choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so >> wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length >> from the exit.
Actually, no more than half a coach length?
On 12/05/2026 11:55, Tweed wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On 12 May 2026 09:32:36 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> gabbled:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more
railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also >>>>>> Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate >>>>> different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get >>>>> upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
I imagine the japanese are too smart and respect their own culture way too much
to have falled for the multiculti left wing snake oil the west has been sold
for the last 50 years.
Hm.
https://sumikai.com/nachrichten-aus-japan/shibuya-kaempft-gegen-graffiti-369782/
Well, some of the problem is brought by Westerners.
Graffiti seems worse in mainland Europe than UK. Belgium trains are often
covered and Swiss railway infrastructure is covered surprisingly often.
Well surprising to me, IrCOd imagine the Swiss not to be tolerant of this
sort of thing.
Perhaps Europeans are more pragmatic and send trains out covered in tags whereas a British TOC would withdraw them for service until cleaned.
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 12:21, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:So assuming the Thalys is as long or longer than a E* then there should
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter.
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a >>>>>>> success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>>
Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I >>>>>>
Green Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the
length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't >>>>> align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can
choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so >>> wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length >>> from the exit.
be no problem.
To meet the previous (/current?) regulations, they'd have to be specially-constructed sets - I don't think any other fixed-formation-unit passenger train in Europe is that long with a through corridor, rather than being two sets joined nose-to-nose.
On 13/05/2026 02:51, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 12:21, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:So assuming the Thalys is as long or longer than a E* then there should
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
success).canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>>>
Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I
No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter.
Green Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the >>>>>> length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't >>>>>> align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can
choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so
wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length >>>> from the exit.
be no problem.
To meet the previous (/current?) regulations, they'd have to be
specially-constructed sets - I don't think any other fixed-formation-unit
passenger train in Europe is that long with a through corridor, rather than >> being two sets joined nose-to-nose.
As a matter of interest, how many times have trains had to be evacuated
via the cross tunnels?
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMTGreen Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter. >>>
we
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First) >>>>> class
is 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
success).canAt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnAt a
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car...
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>>>>> Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I >>>>
length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't
align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can
choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so >wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length >from the exit.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 11:21:07 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMTGreen Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter. >>>>
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world. >>>>>>>> Rather ironic really.can-At manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasn-At a >>>>>> success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I >>>>>
length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't
align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can
choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so >> wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length >> from the exit.
That may be true. I'd need to listen to the episode again but it
sounded more complex. Also involved was the coach layouts: it is difficult/impossible to build the trains such that the doors are in a compliant position.
Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
On Tue, 12 May 2026 11:21:07 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-DryverAre there any restrictions on the time to evacuate a train? IrCOve noticed that continental double deck stock is slow to load/unload because
<anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter.
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.can-At manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasn-At a >>>>>>> success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>>
Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I >>>>>>
Green Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the
length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't >>>>> align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can
choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so >>> wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length >>> from the exit.
That may be true. I'd need to listen to the episode again but it
sounded more complex. Also involved was the coach layouts: it is
difficult/impossible to build the trains such that the doors are in a
compliant position.
passengers have to negotiate stairs and you get congestion where the two flows meet on exit.
As a matter of interest, how many times have trains had to be evacuated
via the cross tunnels?
On 13/05/2026 08:23, Graeme Wall wrote:
[about the Channel Tunnel]
As a matter of interest, how many times have trains had to be evacuated
via the cross tunnels?
Wasn't plan A to split the train and drive the part that's not on fire*
out in whichever direction it is pointing, or has that changed?
*or become unfit for service in less dramatic fashion
On 13/05/2026 09:16, Tweed wrote:
Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
On Tue, 12 May 2026 11:21:07 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-DryverAre there any restrictions on the time to evacuate a train? IrCOve noticed >> that continental double deck stock is slow to load/unload because
<anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.can-At manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasn-At a >>>>>>>> success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>>>
Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I
No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter.
Green Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the >>>>>> length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't >>>>>> align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can
choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so
wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length >>>> from the exit.
That may be true. I'd need to listen to the episode again but it
sounded more complex. Also involved was the coach layouts: it is
difficult/impossible to build the trains such that the doors are in a
compliant position.
passengers have to negotiate stairs and you get congestion where the two
flows meet on exit.
Be even slower from an E* as everyone has to exit by the one door
nearest the cross-tunnel. If you do the sensible thing and evacuate by
all the doors onto the continuous walkway then there is no logical restriction on using two coupled units.
On Wed, 13 May 2026 10:19:44 +0100
Certes <Certes@example.org> gabbled:
On 13/05/2026 08:23, Graeme Wall wrote:
[about the Channel Tunnel]
As a matter of interest, how many times have trains had to be evacuated >>> via the cross tunnels?
Wasn't plan A to split the train and drive the part that's not on fire*
out in whichever direction it is pointing, or has that changed?
*or become unfit for service in less dramatic fashion
If the front half is on fire how does the driver get to the back half to drive it out? Plus decoupling the sections takes time and might not even work.
Doesn't sound viable to me.
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 13/05/2026 09:16, Tweed wrote:
Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
On Tue, 12 May 2026 11:21:07 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-DryverAre there any restrictions on the time to evacuate a train? IrCOve noticed >>> that continental double deck stock is slow to load/unload because
<anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe >>>>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled: >>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.can-At manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasn-At a >>>>>>>>> success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>>>>
Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I
No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter.
Green Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the >>>>>>> length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't >>>>>>> align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can >>>>>> choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so
wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length
from the exit.
That may be true. I'd need to listen to the episode again but it
sounded more complex. Also involved was the coach layouts: it is
difficult/impossible to build the trains such that the doors are in a
compliant position.
passengers have to negotiate stairs and you get congestion where the two >>> flows meet on exit.
Be even slower from an E* as everyone has to exit by the one door
nearest the cross-tunnel. If you do the sensible thing and evacuate by
all the doors onto the continuous walkway then there is no logical
restriction on using two coupled units.
I think the idea is to use the walkway if possible. But if the tunnel is filled with smoke and/or flames the train is supposed to be a safer
walkway. IrCOve an idea that the restriction on two coupled sets has been or will be relaxed, but I canrCOt find a reference at the moment l
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter.
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a >>>>>>> success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>>
Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I >>>>>>
Green Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the
length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't >>>>> align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can
choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so >>> wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length >>> from the exit.
Actually, no more than half a coach length?
I that's what I originally wrote, but then I remembered that some parts of the train have doors at opposite ends of the coaches [1], ie two coach lengths apart; so potentially the exit could be a whole coach length from
the nearest door.
Watching some videos of passing Eurostar trains, it seems that this isn't a feature of class 374, but occurs four times along the length of a class 373 [1].
[1] actually in two of the instances (one per half-set) it's an entire carriage without doors, rather than 'opposite ends'; but the result is the same.
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 13/05/2026 09:16, Tweed wrote:
Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
On Tue, 12 May 2026 11:21:07 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-DryverAre there any restrictions on the time to evacuate a train? IrCOve noticed >>> that continental double deck stock is slow to load/unload because
<anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe >>>>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled: >>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.can-At manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasn-At a >>>>>>>>> success).
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>>>>
Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I
No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter.
Green Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the >>>>>>> length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't >>>>>>> align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can >>>>>> choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so
wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length
from the exit.
That may be true. I'd need to listen to the episode again but it
sounded more complex. Also involved was the coach layouts: it is
difficult/impossible to build the trains such that the doors are in a
compliant position.
passengers have to negotiate stairs and you get congestion where the two >>> flows meet on exit.
Be even slower from an E* as everyone has to exit by the one door
nearest the cross-tunnel. If you do the sensible thing and evacuate by
all the doors onto the continuous walkway then there is no logical
restriction on using two coupled units.
I think the idea is to use the walkway if possible. But if the tunnel is filled with smoke and/or flames the train is supposed to be a safer
walkway. IrCOve an idea that the restriction on two coupled sets has been or will be relaxed, but I canrCOt find a reference at the moment l
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 13/05/2026 09:16, Tweed wrote:
Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
On Tue, 12 May 2026 11:21:07 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-DryverAre there any restrictions on the time to evacuate a train? IrCOve noticed >>>> that continental double deck stock is slow to load/unload because
<anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe >>>>>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
success).can-At manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasn-At a
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>>>>>
Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I
No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter.
Green Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the >>>>>>>> length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't >>>>>>>> align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can >>>>>>> choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so
wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length
from the exit.
That may be true. I'd need to listen to the episode again but it
sounded more complex. Also involved was the coach layouts: it is
difficult/impossible to build the trains such that the doors are in a >>>>> compliant position.
passengers have to negotiate stairs and you get congestion where the two >>>> flows meet on exit.
Be even slower from an E* as everyone has to exit by the one door
nearest the cross-tunnel. If you do the sensible thing and evacuate by
all the doors onto the continuous walkway then there is no logical
restriction on using two coupled units.
I think the idea is to use the walkway if possible. But if the tunnel is
filled with smoke and/or flames the train is supposed to be a safer
walkway. IrCOve an idea that the restriction on two coupled sets has been or >> will be relaxed, but I canrCOt find a reference at the moment l
This is what IrCOve found using copilot, which has produced much better results than GooglerCOs AI:
Takeaway:
Channel Tunnel doorrCaalignment rules ensure that at least one set of passenger doors stops directly opposite a crossrCapassage into the service tunnel, so everyone can evacuate through a single, protected point. There
is no fixed train length rule, but these alignment requirements effectively shape what lengths are acceptable.
---
What the Channel Tunnel doorrCaalignment rule actually requires
The Channel Tunnel has crossrCapassages every 375 metres, linking the running tunnels to the central service tunnel.
Passenger evacuation is only permitted through these crossrCapassages, never onto the track.
To comply, a train must be able to:
rCo Stop with at least one passenger door aligned to a crossrCapassage
rCo Evacuate all passengers through that single aligned door
rCo Demonstrate this reliably in a safety case, even under degraded conditions (e.g., firerCarunning mode)
This is the core of the rule:
A train must always be able to present a usable door at a crossrCapassage, regardless of where it stops.
---
Why this rule exists
The Tunnel is 50 km long, and the running tunnels are narrow. Evacuation
onto the track would be dangerous.
The service tunnel, however, is:
rCo Pressurised
rCo SmokerCafree
rCo Accessible to rescue vehicles
rCo Designed as the primary safe haven
So the entire evacuation strategy depends on door alignment.
---
How alignment interacts with train length
This is where the rule becomes interesting.
rLoN+A Long trains (ree400 m)
rCo Always span at least one crossrCapassage zone
rCo Guaranteed to have a door align somewhere
rCo This is why EurostarrCOs Class 373 and 374 (~394rCo400 m) work well
rLoN+A Medium trains (~200 m)
rCo Can still align a door, but only if the stopping position is controlled rCo These lengths have been approved (e.g., halfrCasets in special operations)
rYi Very short trains (<150 m)
rCo Could stop entirely between two crossrCapassages
rCo No door would align
rCo Evacuation would be impossible
rCo These formations would fail the safety case
This is why the Tunnel has no written minimum length, but a functional minimum emerges from the alignment rule.
---
How operators prove compliance
To satisfy the Intergovernmental Commission (IGC), an operator must show:
rCo Stopping accuracy under normal and degraded modes
rCo WorstrCacase doorrCatorCacrossrCapassage distances
rCo Evacuation time calculations
rCo FirerCarunning capability (15 minutes minimum with a validated safety case)
rCo Passenger flow modelling for the entire train length
The key is demonstrating that all passengers can reach the aligned door and evacuate safely.
---
Summary of the doorrCaalignment rule
rCo CrossrCapassages are spaced 375 m apart
rCo A train must always be able to align a door with one
rCo Evacuation must occur only through that aligned door
rCo This indirectly sets a practical minimum train length (~200 m)
rCo It also explains why 400 m trains are the standard for the Tunnel
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 13/05/2026 09:16, Tweed wrote:
Trolleybus <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
On Tue, 12 May 2026 11:21:07 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-DryverAre there any restrictions on the time to evacuate a train? IrCOve noticed
<anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
success).can-At manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasn-At a
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I
No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter.
Green Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the >>>>>>>>> length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't >>>>>>>>> align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can >>>>>>>> choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so
wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length
from the exit.
That may be true. I'd need to listen to the episode again but it
sounded more complex. Also involved was the coach layouts: it is
difficult/impossible to build the trains such that the doors are in a >>>>>> compliant position.
that continental double deck stock is slow to load/unload because
passengers have to negotiate stairs and you get congestion where the two >>>>> flows meet on exit.
Be even slower from an E* as everyone has to exit by the one door
nearest the cross-tunnel. If you do the sensible thing and evacuate by >>>> all the doors onto the continuous walkway then there is no logical
restriction on using two coupled units.
I think the idea is to use the walkway if possible. But if the tunnel is >>> filled with smoke and/or flames the train is supposed to be a safer
walkway. IrCOve an idea that the restriction on two coupled sets has been or
will be relaxed, but I canrCOt find a reference at the moment l
This is what IrCOve found using copilot, which has produced much better
results than GooglerCOs AI:
Takeaway:
Channel Tunnel doorrCaalignment rules ensure that at least one set of
passenger doors stops directly opposite a crossrCapassage into the service >> tunnel, so everyone can evacuate through a single, protected point. There
is no fixed train length rule, but these alignment requirements effectively >> shape what lengths are acceptable.
---
What the Channel Tunnel doorrCaalignment rule actually requires
The Channel Tunnel has crossrCapassages every 375 metres, linking the running
tunnels to the central service tunnel.
Passenger evacuation is only permitted through these crossrCapassages, never >> onto the track.
To comply, a train must be able to:
rCo Stop with at least one passenger door aligned to a crossrCapassage
rCo Evacuate all passengers through that single aligned door
rCo Demonstrate this reliably in a safety case, even under degraded
conditions (e.g., firerCarunning mode)
This is the core of the rule:
A train must always be able to present a usable door at a crossrCapassage, >> regardless of where it stops.
---
Why this rule exists
The Tunnel is 50 km long, and the running tunnels are narrow. Evacuation
onto the track would be dangerous.
The service tunnel, however, is:
rCo Pressurised
rCo SmokerCafree
rCo Accessible to rescue vehicles
rCo Designed as the primary safe haven
So the entire evacuation strategy depends on door alignment.
---
How alignment interacts with train length
This is where the rule becomes interesting.
rLoN+A Long trains (ree400 m)
rCo Always span at least one crossrCapassage zone
rCo Guaranteed to have a door align somewhere
rCo This is why EurostarrCOs Class 373 and 374 (~394rCo400 m) work well
rLoN+A Medium trains (~200 m)
rCo Can still align a door, but only if the stopping position is controlled >> rCo These lengths have been approved (e.g., halfrCasets in special operations)
rYi Very short trains (<150 m)
rCo Could stop entirely between two crossrCapassages
rCo No door would align
rCo Evacuation would be impossible
rCo These formations would fail the safety case
This is why the Tunnel has no written minimum length, but a functional
minimum emerges from the alignment rule.
---
How operators prove compliance
To satisfy the Intergovernmental Commission (IGC), an operator must show:
rCo Stopping accuracy under normal and degraded modes
rCo WorstrCacase doorrCatorCacrossrCapassage distances
rCo Evacuation time calculations
rCo FirerCarunning capability (15 minutes minimum with a validated safety case)
rCo Passenger flow modelling for the entire train length
The key is demonstrating that all passengers can reach the aligned door and >> evacuate safely.
---
Summary of the doorrCaalignment rule
rCo CrossrCapassages are spaced 375 m apart
rCo A train must always be able to align a door with one
rCo Evacuation must occur only through that aligned door
rCo This indirectly sets a practical minimum train length (~200 m)
rCo It also explains why 400 m trains are the standard for the Tunnel
IrCOm slightly confused by the concept of rCyalignmentrCO. In normal parlance,
alignment would mean the train door is directly opposite the evacuation
exit. ThatrCOs no doubt what would happen if the driver can choose the exact stopping point. But, if not, the nearest door in a 200m train might be 100m or so away from the exit rCo does that count as alignment?
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 12:21, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:So assuming the Thalys is as long or longer than a E* then there should
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
success).canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>
Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I
No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter.
Green Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the
length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't >>>> align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can
choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so
wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length >> from the exit.
be no problem.
To meet the previous (/current?) regulations, they'd have to be specially-constructed sets - I don't think any other fixed-formation-unit passenger train in Europe is that long with a through corridor, rather than being two sets joined nose-to-nose.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2026 10:19:44 +0100
Certes <Certes@example.org> gabbled:
On 13/05/2026 08:23, Graeme Wall wrote:
[about the Channel Tunnel]
As a matter of interest, how many times have trains had to be evacuated >>> via the cross tunnels?
Wasn't plan A to split the train and drive the part that's not on fire*
out in whichever direction it is pointing, or has that changed?
*or become unfit for service in less dramatic fashion
If the front half is on fire how does the driver get to the back half to drive it out? Plus decoupling the sections takes time and might not even work.
Doesn't sound viable to me.
The train captain, aka guard, is trained to be able to drive the rear unit
if needed. Same for the car shuttle trains.
On Wed, 13 May 2026 10:19:44 +0100
Certes <Certes@example.org> gabbled:
On 13/05/2026 08:23, Graeme Wall wrote:
[about the Channel Tunnel]
As a matter of interest, how many times have trains had to be
evacuated via the cross tunnels?
Wasn't plan A to split the train and drive the part that's not on fire*
out in whichever direction it is pointing, or has that changed?
*or become unfit for service in less dramatic fashion
If the front half is on fire how does the driver get to the back half to drive it out? Plus decoupling the sections takes time and might not even work. Doesn't sound viable to me.
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> posted:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 12:21, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:So assuming the Thalys is as long or longer than a E* then there should >>> be no problem.
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe
wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
success).canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>>>
Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I
No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter.
Green Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the >>>>>> length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't >>>>>> align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can
choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so
wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length >>>> from the exit.
To meet the previous (/current?) regulations, they'd have to be
specially-constructed sets - I don't think any other fixed-formation-unit
passenger train in Europe is that long with a through corridor, rather than >> being two sets joined nose-to-nose.
Some ICE1 class 401 trains with 14 intermediate
carriages might have been longer.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:[Snip repetitive repetition by AI repeating itself]
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
This is what IrCOve found using copilot, which has produced much better
results than GooglerCOs AI:
Summary of the doorrCaalignment rule
rCo CrossrCapassages are spaced 375 m apart
rCo A train must always be able to align a door with one
rCo Evacuation must occur only through that aligned door
rCo This indirectly sets a practical minimum train length (~200 m)
rCo It also explains why 400 m trains are the standard for the Tunnel
IrCOm slightly confused by the concept of rCyalignmentrCO. In normal parlance,
alignment would mean the train door is directly opposite the evacuation
exit. ThatrCOs no doubt what would happen if the driver can choose the exact >> stopping point. But, if not, the nearest door in a 200m train might be 100m >> or so away from the exit rCo does that count as alignment?
I think the idea is the driver can bring the train to a halt with a train door next to a cross portal door. In other documents thererCOs a lot of talk about the trains being able to continue to move in the event of an onboard fire for at least 15 minutes (was 30 minutes). That seems to be all well
and good but what happens if the traction supply is lost? I suppose
coasting will be sufficient. ThererCOs also mention that a train has to be able to be evacuated to the service tunnel within 15 minutes, which might
be harder for a double deck train. ItrCOs actually quite hard to find any first hand documents.
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> posted:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 12:21, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:So assuming the Thalys is as long or longer than a E* then there should >>>> be no problem.
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe >>>>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled: >>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
success).canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>>>>
Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I
No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter.
Green Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the >>>>>>> length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't >>>>>>> align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can >>>>>> choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so
wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length
from the exit.
To meet the previous (/current?) regulations, they'd have to be
specially-constructed sets - I don't think any other fixed-formation-unit >>> passenger train in Europe is that long with a through corridor, rather than >>> being two sets joined nose-to-nose.
Some ICE1 class 401 trains with 14 intermediate
carriages might have been longer.
14 x 26.4 m + 2 x 20.56 m = 410.72 m
Not sure if the coupling arrangements might add to or subract from that.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 10:31:21 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more >>>> railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also >>>> Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate >>> different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get
upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
You donrCOt come across any graffiti anywhere in east Asia. ItrCOs alien their
Confucian culture. I once asked a guide about the complete absence of
graffiti there, and he just wasnrCOt aware of the concept of it.
Frankly is alien to me why anyone would spend their time spraying shit on
a wall but perhaps only those with a double digit IQ get that feeling of achievement.
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more >> railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also
Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get
upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> posted:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 12:21, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:So assuming the Thalys is as long or longer than a E* then there should >>>>> be no problem.
On 12/05/2026 10:23, Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 15:11:46 -0000 (UTC), boltar@caprica.universe >>>>>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 11:29:35 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
class
boltar@caprica.universe posted:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 10:36:15 GMT
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> gabbled: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> posted:
Yes, with seat widths equivalent to 2+3 in Europe. Even Green (First)
weis 2+2, not 2+1.
In fact, Japanese narrow (Cape) gauge trains are at least as wide as UK
standard gauge trains. They even have narrow gauge double-deckers, which
success).canrCOt manage on standard gauge (well, we tried, but it wasnrCOt a
The largest *passenger* carrying trains by loading guage in the world.
Into Folkstone from France. But you have to bring your car... >>>>>>>>>>>>
Rather ironic really.
For passengers not coming with their car wait for
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz6n1w80z1zo
Those Thalys replacement trains, even if they ever get to St P, which I
No operational reason they couldn't. Business reasons are another matter.
Green Signals thought not in a recent episode. Something about the >>>>>>>> length of the carriages meaning that in an emergency the doors don't >>>>>>>> align with the Channel Tunnel escape crossways.
Which assume that an emergency on a E* is such that the driver can >>>>>>> choose his stopping point.
A Eurostar train is longer than the spacing between the emergency exits, so
wherever a train stops, at least one door will be less than a coach length
from the exit.
To meet the previous (/current?) regulations, they'd have to be
specially-constructed sets - I don't think any other fixed-formation-unit >>>> passenger train in Europe is that long with a through corridor, rather than
being two sets joined nose-to-nose.
Some ICE1 class 401 trains with 14 intermediate
carriages might have been longer.
14 x 26.4 m + 2 x 20.56 m = 410.72 m
Not sure if the coupling arrangements might add to or subract from that.
Oh, and the 13-car ICE4s are only 374 m long - their composed of 29-ish m long carriages.
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more >>> railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also
Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate
different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get
upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
My very limited understanding of Japanese history is that they were
actively xenophobic and opposed any but very limited immigration or settlement. I definitely donrCOt know enough to say whether that history fed into the culture that engaged in WW2.
Sam
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Tue, 12 May 2026 10:31:21 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more
railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also >>>>> Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate >>>> different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get >>>> upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
You donrCOt come across any graffiti anywhere in east Asia. ItrCOs alien their
Confucian culture. I once asked a guide about the complete absence of
graffiti there, and he just wasnrCOt aware of the concept of it.
Frankly is alien to me why anyone would spend their time spraying shit on
a wall but perhaps only those with a double digit IQ get that feeling of
achievement.
EdinburghrCOs cycle path network has two well decorated tunnels. One, the >Colinton tunnel, has been deliberately adorned with professionally painted >scenes depicting the local and historical environment[1]. The other, the >Innocent tunnel, is more informally decorated, and gets overpainted >regularly[2]. Whatever the social benefits or disbenefits, content or >meaning of the graffiti, some of it is astonishingly well executed and itrCOs >a pity it gets covered up so frequently. ThererCOs a kind of palimpsest >there if some archaeologist of the future were to work on it.
Personally IrCOm conflicted about graffiti. Some of it is well executed, >some of it is rubbish; some of it is beautiful, some of it is deliberately >provocative or ugly. It seems to be a symptom or characteristic of the way >our society works, or doesnrCOt work for some people.
[1] <https://www.colintontunnel.org.uk>
[2] ThererCOs loads of this stuff ><https://www.lmgt.org/?q=innocent+tunnel+graffiti>
On Thu, 14 May 2026 08:54:10 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
On Tue, 12 May 2026 10:31:21 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> gabbled:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more
railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also >>>>>> Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate >>>>> different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get >>>>> upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
You donrCOt come across any graffiti anywhere in east Asia. ItrCOs alien their
Confucian culture. I once asked a guide about the complete absence of
graffiti there, and he just wasnrCOt aware of the concept of it.
Frankly is alien to me why anyone would spend their time spraying shit on >>> a wall but perhaps only those with a double digit IQ get that feeling of >>> achievement.
EdinburghrCOs cycle path network has two well decorated tunnels. One, the >> Colinton tunnel, has been deliberately adorned with professionally painted >> scenes depicting the local and historical environment[1]. The other, the
Innocent tunnel, is more informally decorated, and gets overpainted
regularly[2]. Whatever the social benefits or disbenefits, content or
meaning of the graffiti, some of it is astonishingly well executed and itrCOs
a pity it gets covered up so frequently. ThererCOs a kind of palimpsest
there if some archaeologist of the future were to work on it.
Personally IrCOm conflicted about graffiti. Some of it is well executed,
some of it is rubbish; some of it is beautiful, some of it is deliberately >> provocative or ugly. It seems to be a symptom or characteristic of the way >> our society works, or doesnrCOt work for some people.
[1] <https://www.colintontunnel.org.uk>
[2] ThererCOs loads of this stuff
<https://www.lmgt.org/?q=innocent+tunnel+graffiti>
There are some places where walls are deliberately made available for graffiti artistes to exhibit their best work. I
think they get left up for a few weeks before being handed over to the next contender.
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
<boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
Anyone been watching Portillos latest jolly in Japan? He actually did more >>> railway related stuff than he usually does, was very interesting. Also
Japan looks like an interesting country to visit too.
Seemed very clean and graffiti free. No history of having to accommodate
different cultures and be forced to tolerate their ways lest they get
upset to the detriment of our own values I suppose.
My very limited understanding of Japanese history is that they were
actively xenophobic and opposed any but very limited immigration or >settlement. I definitely donAt know enough to say whether that history fed >into the culture that engaged in WW2.
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