On my recent trip to NL everyone was using cards (physical or via phone)
for everything. I donrCOt think I ever saw cash in use.
Keukenhof tulip park explicitly stated that payment could only be made
by card.
In message <10tiet0$27atj$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:36 on Thu, 7 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
On my recent trip to NL everyone was using cards (physical or via phone)
for everything. I donrCOt think I ever saw cash in use.
That's helpful, because when I was last visiting regularly it was almost impossible to buy a train ticket other than with cash, and traders hated credit cards, although happy with Dutch-issued debit cards.
Keukenhof tulip park explicitly stated that payment could only be made
by card.
I had planned to go there last week (to include Kings Day), but things
here got a bit hectic so I called it off. We'd have taken a car ferry
from Harwich, and stayed at the Kras.
NL seems to have got over its peculiar acceptance of credit cards. My UK Mastercard worked everywhere.
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
NL seems to have got over its peculiar acceptance of credit cards. My UK
Mastercard worked everywhere.
I think that may have to do with the abandonment of Maestro in favour Mastercard and Visa. Before that, all Dutch bank cards were Maestro.
Cheers,
Koen
Readers will be delighted to know that at the RHS Malvern show today, at
the Showground, recycling wheelie bins were green and general waste were blue.
Almost every trader, of which there were very many, were accepting card payments. Probably helped by the site having its own dedicated cell tower. Despite a large number of visitors, mobile data moved freely. (At least on
my Vodafone powered phone) My only use of cash was at a tent run by a
hospice first thing. Their ability to take cards was temporary stymied by their till deciding to do a Windows update. As you might imagine, the
visitor demographic today was towards the grey hair spectrum. Very many
were paying via their phones rather than with a physical card.
On my recent trip to NL everyone was using cards (physical or via phone)
for everything. I donrCOt think I ever saw cash in use. Keukenhof tulip park explicitly stated that payment could only be made by card.
Ob rail: NL gated stations use very high gates, so you canrCOt jump them. Also they donrCOt feel the need to have a staff member observing them. IrCOm not entirely sure what happens if your ticket is rejected. The exit at
Leiden station made me slightly anxious as my Interrail Aztec ticket had
thus far failed to open any ticket barrier in GB. However the NL opened.
On 07/05/2026 18:33, Tweed wrote:
Readers will be delighted to know that at the RHS Malvern show today, at
the Showground, recycling wheelie bins were green and general waste were
blue.
Almost every trader, of which there were very many, were accepting card
payments. Probably helped by the site having its own dedicated cell tower. >> Despite a large number of visitors, mobile data moved freely. (At least on >> my Vodafone powered phone) My only use of cash was at a tent run by a
hospice first thing. Their ability to take cards was temporary stymied by
their till deciding to do a Windows update. As you might imagine, the
visitor demographic today was towards the grey hair spectrum. Very many
were paying via their phones rather than with a physical card.
On my recent trip to NL everyone was using cards (physical or via phone)
for everything. I donrCOt think I ever saw cash in use. Keukenhof tulip park >> explicitly stated that payment could only be made by card.
Ob rail: NL gated stations use very high gates, so you canrCOt jump them.
Also they donrCOt feel the need to have a staff member observing them. IrCOm >> not entirely sure what happens if your ticket is rejected. The exit at
Leiden station made me slightly anxious as my Interrail Aztec ticket had
thus far failed to open any ticket barrier in GB. However the NL opened.
One of the problems I have had with ticket barriers in NL in the past is that they have a single sensor that has NFC and also a window to scan QR codes. The problem is if you have both a QR code ticket on your phone
and NFC payment, if the phone detects the NFC reader it will switch from showing the QR code to NFC payment mode. When this first happened to me
I looked around for a member of staff and couldn't find any. In the end
I found that the range of the optical reader is greater than NFC so if I hold my phone a long way from the scanner and gradually bring it closer,
the QR code will work before the NFC kicks in.
This was a few years ago, thoguh, and I have not had trouble in more
recent trips, so it may be that some tweaks have been made to the phone/app/gateline software that fixed this issue.
Robin
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tiet0$27atj$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:36 on Thu, 7 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
On my recent trip to NL everyone was using cards (physical or via phone) >>> for everything. I donrCOt think I ever saw cash in use.
That's helpful, because when I was last visiting regularly it was almost
impossible to buy a train ticket other than with cash, and traders hated
credit cards, although happy with Dutch-issued debit cards.
Keukenhof tulip park explicitly stated that payment could only be made
by card.
I had planned to go there last week (to include Kings Day), but things
here got a bit hectic so I called it off. We'd have taken a car ferry
from Harwich, and stayed at the Kras.
I got there on Kings Day, totally unaware of it. Soon learned!
NL seems to have got over its peculiar acceptance of credit cards. My UK >Mastercard worked everywhere.
Ob rail: Eurostar to Rotterdam and local train to Leiden worked very well. >ThererCOs a dedicated bus from Leiden to Keukenhof that runs every 15 >minutes.
One of the problems I have had with ticket barriers in NL in the past
is that they have a single sensor that has NFC and also a window to
scan QR codes. The problem is if you have both a QR code ticket on your >phone and NFC payment, if the phone detects the NFC reader it will
switch from showing the QR code to NFC payment mode. When this first >happened to me I looked around for a member of staff and couldn't find
any. In the end I found that the range of the optical reader is greater
than NFC so if I hold my phone a long way from the scanner and
gradually bring it closer, the QR code will work before the NFC kicks in.
This was a few years ago, thoguh, and I have not had trouble in more
recent trips, so it may be that some tweaks have been made to the >phone/app/gateline software that fixed this issue.
Robin
In message <10tk3dc$2mu8l$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:29:48 on Fri, 8 May
2026, Bob <nospam@gmail.com> remarked:
One of the problems I have had with ticket barriers in NL in the past
is that they have a single sensor that has NFC and also a window to
scan QR codes. The problem is if you have both a QR code ticket on your
phone and NFC payment, if the phone detects the NFC reader it will
switch from showing the QR code to NFC payment mode. When this first
happened to me I looked around for a member of staff and couldn't find
any. In the end I found that the range of the optical reader is greater
than NFC so if I hold my phone a long way from the scanner and
gradually bring it closer, the QR code will work before the NFC kicks in.
This was a few years ago, thoguh, and I have not had trouble in more
recent trips, so it may be that some tweaks have been made to the
phone/app/gateline software that fixed this issue.
Robin
Some Elizabeth Line stations have the same problem, with signage saying
that passengers shouldn't try to scan their barcode tickets on the
barriers, because it will instead start a CCC transaction, therefore charging people twice for the same trip.
KerCHING!
In message <10tiet0$27atj$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:36 on Thu, 7 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
On my recent trip to NL everyone was using cards (physical or via phone)
for everything. I donrCOt think I ever saw cash in use.
That's helpful, because when I was last visiting regularly it was almost impossible to buy a train ticket other than with cash, and traders hated credit cards, although happy with Dutch-issued debit cards.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tiet0$27atj$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:36 on Thu, 7 May 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
On my recent trip to NL everyone was using cards (physical or via phone) >> for everything. I donrCOt think I ever saw cash in use.
That's helpful, because when I was last visiting regularly it was almost impossible to buy a train ticket other than with cash, and traders hated credit cards, although happy with Dutch-issued debit cards.
IrCOm glad thatrCOs changed.
IrCOve related before my experience of trying to amass enough Dutch coins to pay for tickets at an unstaffed station, whose machine would only take
coins or Dutch bank cards. A bank was unable to provide said coins because they didnrCOt keep coins in the building. Coin was only available from a dedicated cash machine outside which only acceptedrCa
rCa Dutch bank cards!
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tiet0$27atj$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:36 on Thu, 7 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
On my recent trip to NL everyone was using cards (physical or via phone) >>> for everything. I donrCOt think I ever saw cash in use.
That's helpful, because when I was last visiting regularly it was almost
impossible to buy a train ticket other than with cash, and traders hated
credit cards, although happy with Dutch-issued debit cards.
IrCOm glad thatrCOs changed.
IrCOve related before my experience of trying to amass enough Dutch coins to pay for tickets at an unstaffed station, whose machine would only take
coins or Dutch bank cards. A bank was unable to provide said coins because they didnrCOt keep coins in the building. Coin was only available from a dedicated cash machine outside which only acceptedrCa
rCa Dutch bank cards!
Sam
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tiet0$27atj$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:36 on Thu, 7 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
On my recent trip to NL everyone was using cards (physical or via phone) >>> for everything. I donrCOt think I ever saw cash in use.
That's helpful, because when I was last visiting regularly it was almost
impossible to buy a train ticket other than with cash, and traders hated
credit cards, although happy with Dutch-issued debit cards.
IrCOm glad thatrCOs changed.
IrCOve related before my experience of trying to amass enough Dutch coins to pay for tickets at an unstaffed station, whose machine would only take
coins or Dutch bank cards. A bank was unable to provide said coins because they didnrCOt keep coins in the building. Coin was only available from a dedicated cash machine outside which only acceptedrCa
rCa Dutch bank cards!
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:Even Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these days. All the continental European countries I visit these days have gone cashless. My emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet.
In message <10tiet0$27atj$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:36 on Thu, 7 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
On my recent trip to NL everyone was using cards (physical or via phone) >>>> for everything. I donrCOt think I ever saw cash in use.
That's helpful, because when I was last visiting regularly it was almost >>> impossible to buy a train ticket other than with cash, and traders hated >>> credit cards, although happy with Dutch-issued debit cards.
IrCOm glad thatrCOs changed.
IrCOve related before my experience of trying to amass enough Dutch coins to >> pay for tickets at an unstaffed station, whose machine would only take
coins or Dutch bank cards. A bank was unable to provide said coins because >> they didnrCOt keep coins in the building. Coin was only available from a
dedicated cash machine outside which only acceptedrCa
rCa Dutch bank cards!
Sam
On 08/05/2026 09:40, Tweed wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:Even Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these days. All the
In message <10tiet0$27atj$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:36 on Thu, 7 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
On my recent trip to NL everyone was using cards (physical or via phone) >>>>> for everything. I donrCOt think I ever saw cash in use.
That's helpful, because when I was last visiting regularly it was almost >>>> impossible to buy a train ticket other than with cash, and traders hated >>>> credit cards, although happy with Dutch-issued debit cards.
IrCOm glad thatrCOs changed.
IrCOve related before my experience of trying to amass enough Dutch coins to
pay for tickets at an unstaffed station, whose machine would only take
coins or Dutch bank cards. A bank was unable to provide said coins because >>> they didnrCOt keep coins in the building. Coin was only available from a >>> dedicated cash machine outside which only acceptedrCa
rCa Dutch bank cards!
Sam
continental European countries I visit these days have gone cashless. My
emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet.
What is Spain like now? Going to be visiting Madrid later in the year.
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tiet0$27atj$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:36 on Thu, 7 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
On my recent trip to NL everyone was using cards (physical or via phone) >>>> for everything. I donrCOt think I ever saw cash in use.
That's helpful, because when I was last visiting regularly it was almost >>> impossible to buy a train ticket other than with cash, and traders hated >>> credit cards, although happy with Dutch-issued debit cards.
IrCOm glad thatrCOs changed.
IrCOve related before my experience of trying to amass enough Dutch coins to >> pay for tickets at an unstaffed station, whose machine would only take
coins or Dutch bank cards. A bank was unable to provide said coins because >> they didnrCOt keep coins in the building. Coin was only available from a
dedicated cash machine outside which only acceptedrCa
rCa Dutch bank cards!
Nun-Dutch Eurocoins should also be accepted...
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:Even Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these days. All the continental European countries I visit these days have gone cashless. My emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet.
In message <10tiet0$27atj$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:36 on Thu, 7 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
On my recent trip to NL everyone was using cards (physical or via phone) >>>> for everything. I donrCOt think I ever saw cash in use.
That's helpful, because when I was last visiting regularly it was almost >>> impossible to buy a train ticket other than with cash, and traders hated >>> credit cards, although happy with Dutch-issued debit cards.
IrCOm glad thatrCOs changed.
IrCOve related before my experience of trying to amass enough Dutch coins to >> pay for tickets at an unstaffed station, whose machine would only take
coins or Dutch bank cards. A bank was unable to provide said coins because >> they didnrCOt keep coins in the building. Coin was only available from a
dedicated cash machine outside which only acceptedrCa
rCa Dutch bank cards!
Sam
On 08/05/2026 09:29, Sam Wilson wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tiet0$27atj$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:36 on Thu, 7 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
On my recent trip to NL everyone was using cards (physical or via phone) >>>> for everything. I donrCOt think I ever saw cash in use.
That's helpful, because when I was last visiting regularly it was almost >>> impossible to buy a train ticket other than with cash, and traders hated >>> credit cards, although happy with Dutch-issued debit cards.
IrCOm glad thatrCOs changed.
IrCOve related before my experience of trying to amass enough Dutch >>coins to pay for tickets at an unstaffed station, whose machine would >>only take coins or Dutch bank cards. A bank was unable to provide
said coins because they didnrCOt keep coins in the building. Coin
was only available from a dedicated cash machine outside which only >>acceptedrCa rCa Dutch bank cards!
I once had to spend three weeks staying at a hotel at Schipol[1].
The NS shop in the main concourse got fed up with me continually asking
for change for their ticket machines. their argument was was that they
could sell me the tickets over the counter, omitting to mention the
hefty markup for not using the machines!
[1] Covering cricket of all things. The Dutch are very keen on the game.
Even Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these days. All the
continental European countries I visit these days have gone cashless. My
emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet.
What is Spain like now? Going to be visiting Madrid later in the year.
In message <10tkb88$2p3br$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:36 on Fri, 8 May
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
Even Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these days. All the >>> continental European countries I visit these days have gone cashless. My >>> emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet.
What is Spain like now? Going to be visiting Madrid later in the year.
I've been to several Spanish cities the last two or three years, and
it's pretty much the same as UK. Most overpriced hospitality take cards/phones by default, but some smaller places prefer cash.
I once had to spend three weeks staying at a hotel at Schipol[1].
I've spent many nights at either the Sheraton or Holiday Inn, while organising conferences at the Sheraton.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkb88$2p3br$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:36 on Fri, 8 May
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
Even Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these days. All the >>>> continental European countries I visit these days have gone cashless. My >>>> emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet.
What is Spain like now? Going to be visiting Madrid later in the year.
I've been to several Spanish cities the last two or three years, and
it's pretty much the same as UK. Most overpriced hospitality take
cards/phones by default, but some smaller places prefer cash.
I think werCOve reached a tipping point with card acceptance. ItrCOs so >widespread that the refusniks have now realised that they are losing trade. >At the Malvern show yesterday I overheard one or two stall holders
apologise for their slowness as it was the first time they had taken cards. >The little square card readers were much in evidence. There was the >occasional stall that had a notice stating they preferred cash but would >accept cards. I donrCOt think I actually saw anyone using cash.
In message <10tkihc$2rk65$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:47:57 on Fri, 8 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkb88$2p3br$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:36 on Fri, 8 May
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
Even Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these days. All the >>>>> continental European countries I visit these days have gone cashless. My >>>>> emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet.
What is Spain like now? Going to be visiting Madrid later in the year.
I've been to several Spanish cities the last two or three years, and
it's pretty much the same as UK. Most overpriced hospitality take
cards/phones by default, but some smaller places prefer cash.
I think werCOve reached a tipping point with card acceptance. ItrCOs so
widespread that the refusniks have now realised that they are losing trade. >> At the Malvern show yesterday I overheard one or two stall holders
apologise for their slowness as it was the first time they had taken cards. >> The little square card readers were much in evidence. There was the
occasional stall that had a notice stating they preferred cash but would
accept cards. I donrCOt think I actually saw anyone using cash.
I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought
the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the
one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the
exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes
their heart sink.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkihc$2rk65$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:47:57 on Fri, 8 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkb88$2p3br$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:36 on Fri, 8 May
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
I've been to several Spanish cities the last two or three years, andEven Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these days. All the
continental European countries I visit these days have gone cashless. My >>>>>> emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet.
What is Spain like now? Going to be visiting Madrid later in the year. >>>>
it's pretty much the same as UK. Most overpriced hospitality take
cards/phones by default, but some smaller places prefer cash.
I think werCOve reached a tipping point with card acceptance. ItrCOs so
widespread that the refusniks have now realised that they are losing trade. >>> At the Malvern show yesterday I overheard one or two stall holders
apologise for their slowness as it was the first time they had taken cards. >>> The little square card readers were much in evidence. There was the
occasional stall that had a notice stating they preferred cash but would >>> accept cards. I donrCOt think I actually saw anyone using cash.
I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was
because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought
the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the
one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was
installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and
part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the
exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes
their heart sink.
Strange that BT would use O2, not its own EE?
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkihc$2rk65$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:47:57 on Fri, 8 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkb88$2p3br$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:36 on Fri, 8 May >>>>> 2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
I've been to several Spanish cities the last two or three years, and >>>>> it's pretty much the same as UK. Most overpriced hospitality takeEven Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these days. All the
continental European countries I visit these days have gone cashless. My
emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet.
What is Spain like now? Going to be visiting Madrid later in the year. >>>>>
cards/phones by default, but some smaller places prefer cash.
I think werCOve reached a tipping point with card acceptance. ItrCOs so >>>> widespread that the refusniks have now realised that they are losing trade.
At the Malvern show yesterday I overheard one or two stall holders
apologise for their slowness as it was the first time they had taken cards.
The little square card readers were much in evidence. There was the
occasional stall that had a notice stating they preferred cash but would >>>> accept cards. I donrCOt think I actually saw anyone using cash.
I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was
because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought >>> the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the
one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was
installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and >>> part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the
exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes
their heart sink.
Strange that BT would use O2, not its own EE?
And, it seems that they do use EE, not O2:
Openreach engineers use EE as their mobile network provider.
As part of the BT Group, Openreach engineers are equipped with EErCOs 4G and 5G network to stay connected while working across the UK.
Key details about Openreach's mobile usage:Powered by EE: The partnership, often highlighted in EE Business case studies, provides engineers with connectivity to use specialized apps on iPads for accessing network data, satellite images, and tools, even in remote rural areas.
4G/5G Coverage: Engineers rely on EErCOs network to access apps for planning, surveying, and managing work orders.
While Openreach works with over 650 different service providers (such as
Sky, TalkTalk, and Vodafone) to provide connectivity to customers, their internal field engineering teams use EE.
More to the point, why is o2 reception apparently so poor in Ely?Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was >>>> because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought >>>> the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the
one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was >>>> installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and >>>> part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the
exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes >>>> their heart sink.
On 09/05/2026 09:02, Tweed wrote:
More to the point, why is o2 reception apparently so poor in Ely?Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was >>>>> because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought >>>>> the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the >>>>> one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was >>>>> installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and >>>>> part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the
exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes >>>>> their heart sink.
Presumably there is a large historic building which shields some parts of the city, and provokes objections to masts being sited nearby.
On 07/05/2026 18:33, Tweed wrote:
Readers will be delighted to know that at the RHS Malvern show today, at
the Showground, recycling wheelie bins were green and general waste were
blue.
Almost every trader, of which there were very many, were accepting card
payments. Probably helped by the site having its own dedicated cell tower. >> Despite a large number of visitors, mobile data moved freely. (At least on >> my Vodafone powered phone) My only use of cash was at a tent run by a
hospice first thing. Their ability to take cards was temporary stymied by
their till deciding to do a Windows update. As you might imagine, the
visitor demographic today was towards the grey hair spectrum. Very many
were paying via their phones rather than with a physical card.
On my recent trip to NL everyone was using cards (physical or via phone)
for everything. I donrCOt think I ever saw cash in use. Keukenhof tulip park >> explicitly stated that payment could only be made by card.
Ob rail: NL gated stations use very high gates, so you canrCOt jump them.
Also they donrCOt feel the need to have a staff member observing them. IrCOm >> not entirely sure what happens if your ticket is rejected. The exit at
Leiden station made me slightly anxious as my Interrail Aztec ticket had
thus far failed to open any ticket barrier in GB. However the NL opened.
One of the problems I have had with ticket barriers in NL in the past is that they have a single sensor that has NFC and also a window to scan QR codes. The problem is if you have both a QR code ticket on your phone
and NFC payment, if the phone detects the NFC reader it will switch from showing the QR code to NFC payment mode. When this first happened to me
I looked around for a member of staff and couldn't find any. In the end
I found that the range of the optical reader is greater than NFC so if I hold my phone a long way from the scanner and gradually bring it closer,
the QR code will work before the NFC kicks in.
This was a few years ago, thoguh, and I have not had trouble in more
recent trips, so it may be that some tweaks have been made to the phone/app/gateline software that fixed this issue.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkihc$2rk65$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:47:57 on Fri, 8 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkb88$2p3br$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:36 on Fri, 8 May >>>>> 2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
I've been to several Spanish cities the last two or three years, and >>>>> it's pretty much the same as UK. Most overpriced hospitality takeEven Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these >>>>>>>days. All the
continental European countries I visit these days have gone cashless. My
emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet.
What is Spain like now? Going to be visiting Madrid later in the year. >>>>>
cards/phones by default, but some smaller places prefer cash.
I think werCOve reached a tipping point with card acceptance. ItrCOs so >>>> widespread that the refusniks have now realised that they are losing trade.
At the Malvern show yesterday I overheard one or two stall holders
apologise for their slowness as it was the first time they had taken cards.
The little square card readers were much in evidence. There was the
occasional stall that had a notice stating they preferred cash but would >>>> accept cards. I donrCOt think I actually saw anyone using cash.
I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was
because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought
the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the
one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was
installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and >>> part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the
exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes
their heart sink.
Strange that BT would use O2, not its own EE?
And, it seems that they do use EE, not O2:
...Openreach engineers use EE as their mobile network provider.
As part of the BT Group, Openreach engineers are equipped with EErCOs 4G and >5G network to stay connected while working across the UK.
Key details about Openreach's mobile usage:Powered by EE: The partnership, >often highlighted in EE Business case studies, provides engineers with >connectivity to use specialized apps on iPads for accessing network data, >satellite images, and tools, even in remote rural areas.
4G/5G Coverage: Engineers rely on EErCOs network to access apps for planning, >surveying, and managing work orders.
While Openreach works with over 650 different service providers (such as
Sky, TalkTalk, and Vodafone) to provide connectivity to customers, their >internal field engineering teams use EE.
On 09/05/2026 09:02, Tweed wrote:
More to the point, why is o2 reception apparently so poor in Ely?Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was >>>>> because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought >>>>> the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the >>>>> one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was >>>>> installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and >>>>> part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the
exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes >>>>> their heart sink.
Presumably there is a large historic building
which shields some parts of the city, and provokes objections to masts
being sited nearby.
In message <10tmr47$3fnc7$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:26:48 on Sat, 9 May
2026, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 09/05/2026 09:02, Tweed wrote:
More to the point, why is o2 reception apparently so poor in Ely?Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was >>>>>> because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought >>>>>> the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the >>>>>> one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was >>>>>> installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and >>>>>> part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the
exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes >>>>>> their heart sink.
Presumably there is a large historic building
Built on top of a surprisingly big hill.
which shields some parts of the city, and provokes objections to masts
being sited nearby.
They could put a disguised mast on that building. It's also as flat as a pancake for ten miles to the east, so a mast anywhere there could
provide lots of coverage to that whole side of the City, but they can't
be arsed.
EE (known sometimes as "Nothing Anywhere") have similar issues, having
shut down the old T-Mobile mast which served those flat-lands, in favour
of old Orange bases which don't.
In message <jLBLR.649$UEa.95@fx10.ams1>, at 07:54:55 on Sat, 9 May 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkihc$2rk65$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:47:57 on Fri, 8 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkb88$2p3br$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:36 on Fri, 8 May >>>>>> 2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
I've been to several Spanish cities the last two or three years, and >>>>>> it's pretty much the same as UK. Most overpriced hospitality takeEven Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these
days. All the
continental European countries I visit these days have gone cashless. My
emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet.
What is Spain like now? Going to be visiting Madrid later in the year. >>>>>>
cards/phones by default, but some smaller places prefer cash.
I think werCOve reached a tipping point with card acceptance. ItrCOs so >>>>> widespread that the refusniks have now realised that they are losing trade.
At the Malvern show yesterday I overheard one or two stall holders
apologise for their slowness as it was the first time they had taken cards.
The little square card readers were much in evidence. There was the
occasional stall that had a notice stating they preferred cash but would >>>>> accept cards. I donrCOt think I actually saw anyone using cash.
I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was >>>> because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought >>>> the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the
one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was >>>> installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and >>>> part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the
exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes >>>> their heart sink.
Strange that BT would use O2, not its own EE?
And, it seems that they do use EE, not O2:
**Missing word alert!!**
"all" vs "some"...
...Openreach engineers use EE as their mobile network provider.
As part of the BT Group, Openreach engineers are equipped with EErCOs 4G and >> 5G network to stay connected while working across the UK.
Key details about Openreach's mobile usage:Powered by EE: The partnership, >> often highlighted in EE Business case studies, provides engineers with
connectivity to use specialized apps on iPads for accessing network data,
satellite images, and tools, even in remote rural areas.
4G/5G Coverage: Engineers rely on EErCOs network to access apps for planning,
surveying, and managing work orders.
While Openreach works with over 650 different service providers (such as
Sky, TalkTalk, and Vodafone) to provide connectivity to customers, their
internal field engineering teams use EE.
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they
were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <jLBLR.649$UEa.95@fx10.ams1>, at 07:54:55 on Sat, 9 May 2026,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkihc$2rk65$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:47:57 on Fri, 8 May >>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkb88$2p3br$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:36 on Fri, 8 May >>>>>>> 2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
I've been to several Spanish cities the last two or three years, and >>>>>>> it's pretty much the same as UK. Most overpriced hospitality take >>>>>>> cards/phones by default, but some smaller places prefer cash.Even Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these >>>>>>>>> days. All the
continental European countries I visit these days have gone cashless. My
emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet.
What is Spain like now? Going to be visiting Madrid later in the year. >>>>>>>
I think werCOve reached a tipping point with card acceptance. ItrCOs so >>>>>> widespread that the refusniks have now realised that they are losing trade.
At the Malvern show yesterday I overheard one or two stall holders >>>>>> apologise for their slowness as it was the first time they had taken cards.
The little square card readers were much in evidence. There was the >>>>>> occasional stall that had a notice stating they preferred cash but would >>>>>> accept cards. I donrCOt think I actually saw anyone using cash.
I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was >>>>> because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought >>>>> the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the >>>>> one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was >>>>> installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and >>>>> part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the
exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes >>>>> their heart sink.
Strange that BT would use O2, not its own EE?
And, it seems that they do use EE, not O2:
**Missing word alert!!**
"all" vs "some"...
...Openreach engineers use EE as their mobile network provider.
As part of the BT Group, Openreach engineers are equipped with EErCOs 4G and
5G network to stay connected while working across the UK.
Key details about Openreach's mobile usage:Powered by EE: The partnership, >>> often highlighted in EE Business case studies, provides engineers with
connectivity to use specialized apps on iPads for accessing network data, >>> satellite images, and tools, even in remote rural areas.
4G/5G Coverage: Engineers rely on EErCOs network to access apps for planning,
surveying, and managing work orders.
While Openreach works with over 650 different service providers (such as >>> Sky, TalkTalk, and Vodafone) to provide connectivity to customers, their >>> internal field engineering teams use EE.
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they
were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to believe.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <jLBLR.649$UEa.95@fx10.ams1>, at 07:54:55 on Sat, 9 May 2026, >>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkihc$2rk65$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:47:57 on Fri, 8 May >>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkb88$2p3br$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:36 on Fri, 8 May >>>>>>>> 2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
Even Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these >>>>>>>>>> days. All the
continental European countries I visit these days have gone cashless. My
emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet.
What is Spain like now? Going to be visiting Madrid later in the year.
I've been to several Spanish cities the last two or three years, and >>>>>>>> it's pretty much the same as UK. Most overpriced hospitality take >>>>>>>> cards/phones by default, but some smaller places prefer cash.
I think werCOve reached a tipping point with card acceptance. ItrCOs so >>>>>>> widespread that the refusniks have now realised that they are losing trade.
At the Malvern show yesterday I overheard one or two stall holders >>>>>>> apologise for their slowness as it was the first time they had taken cards.
The little square card readers were much in evidence. There was the >>>>>>> occasional stall that had a notice stating they preferred cash but would
accept cards. I donrCOt think I actually saw anyone using cash.
I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was >>>>>> because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought >>>>>> the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the >>>>>> one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was >>>>>> installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and >>>>>> part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the
exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes >>>>>> their heart sink.
Strange that BT would use O2, not its own EE?
And, it seems that they do use EE, not O2:
**Missing word alert!!**
"all" vs "some"...
...Openreach engineers use EE as their mobile network provider.
As part of the BT Group, Openreach engineers are equipped with EErCOs 4G and
5G network to stay connected while working across the UK.
Key details about Openreach's mobile usage:Powered by EE: The partnership, >>>> often highlighted in EE Business case studies, provides engineers with >>>> connectivity to use specialized apps on iPads for accessing network data, >>>> satellite images, and tools, even in remote rural areas.
4G/5G Coverage: Engineers rely on EErCOs network to access apps for planning,
surveying, and managing work orders.
While Openreach works with over 650 different service providers (such as >>>> Sky, TalkTalk, and Vodafone) to provide connectivity to customers, their >>>> internal field engineering teams use EE.
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they
were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked >>> into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to believe.
DonrCOt you mean EE?
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tmr47$3fnc7$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:26:48 on Sat, 9 May
2026, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 09/05/2026 09:02, Tweed wrote:
More to the point, why is o2 reception apparently so poor in Ely?Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was >>>>>>> because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought >>>>>>> the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the >>>>>>> one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was >>>>>>> installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and
part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the >>>>>>> exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes >>>>>>> their heart sink.
Presumably there is a large historic building
Built on top of a surprisingly big hill.
which shields some parts of the city, and provokes objections to masts
being sited nearby.
They could put a disguised mast on that building. It's also as flat as a
pancake for ten miles to the east, so a mast anywhere there could
provide lots of coverage to that whole side of the City, but they can't
be arsed.
EE (known sometimes as "Nothing Anywhere") have similar issues, having
shut down the old T-Mobile mast which served those flat-lands, in favour
of old Orange bases which don't.
But why do both operators pick on Ely for your alleged canrCOt be arsedness? >North Northumberland, which is pretty rural, is bathed in mobile signal.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <jLBLR.649$UEa.95@fx10.ams1>, at 07:54:55 on Sat, 9 May 2026,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkihc$2rk65$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:47:57 on Fri, 8 May >>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkb88$2p3br$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:36 on Fri, 8 May >>>>>>> 2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
I've been to several Spanish cities the last two or three years, and >>>>>>> it's pretty much the same as UK. Most overpriced hospitality take >>>>>>> cards/phones by default, but some smaller places prefer cash.Even Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these
days. All the
continental European countries I visit these days have gone >>>>>>>>>cashless. My
emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet.
What is Spain like now? Going to be visiting Madrid later in the year. >>>>>>>
I think werCOve reached a tipping point with card acceptance. ItrCOs so >>>>>> widespread that the refusniks have now realised that they are >>>>>>losing trade.
At the Malvern show yesterday I overheard one or two stall holders >>>>>> apologise for their slowness as it was the first time they had >>>>>>taken cards.
The little square card readers were much in evidence. There was the >>>>>> occasional stall that had a notice stating they preferred cash but would >>>>>> accept cards. I donrCOt think I actually saw anyone using cash.
I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was >>>>> because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought >>>>> the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the >>>>> one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was >>>>> installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and >>>>> part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the
exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes >>>>> their heart sink.
Strange that BT would use O2, not its own EE?
And, it seems that they do use EE, not O2:
**Missing word alert!!**
"all" vs "some"...
...Openreach engineers use EE as their mobile network provider.
As part of the BT Group, Openreach engineers are equipped with EErCOs 4G and
5G network to stay connected while working across the UK.
Key details about Openreach's mobile usage:Powered by EE: The partnership, >>> often highlighted in EE Business case studies, provides engineers with
connectivity to use specialized apps on iPads for accessing network data, >>> satellite images, and tools, even in remote rural areas.
4G/5G Coverage: Engineers rely on EErCOs network to access apps for >>>planning,
surveying, and managing work orders.
While Openreach works with over 650 different service providers (such as >>> Sky, TalkTalk, and Vodafone) to provide connectivity to customers, their >>> internal field engineering teams use EE.
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they
were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to believe.
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 09/05/2026 09:02, Tweed wrote:
More to the point, why is o2 reception apparently so poor in Ely?Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was >>>>>> because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought >>>>>> the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the >>>>>> one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was >>>>>> installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and >>>>>> part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the
exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes >>>>>> their heart sink.
Presumably there is a large historic building which shields some parts of >> the city, and provokes objections to masts being sited nearby.
Best place to site the antennas :)
This is VodafonerCOs main site in Berwick
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-berwick-town-hall-berwick-upon-tweed-northumberland-england-uk-176522663.html
See if you can spot the hardware.
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <jLBLR.649$UEa.95@fx10.ams1>, at 07:54:55 on Sat, 9 May 2026, >>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkihc$2rk65$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:47:57 on Fri, 8 May >>>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was >>>>>>> because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
In message <10tkb88$2p3br$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:36 on Fri, 8 May >>>>>>>>> 2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:I think werCOve reached a tipping point with card acceptance. ItrCOs so
Even Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these >>>>>>>>>>> days. All the
continental European countries I visit these days have gone cashless. My
emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet.
What is Spain like now? Going to be visiting Madrid later in the year.
I've been to several Spanish cities the last two or three years, and >>>>>>>>> it's pretty much the same as UK. Most overpriced hospitality take >>>>>>>>> cards/phones by default, but some smaller places prefer cash. >>>>>>>>
widespread that the refusniks have now realised that they are losing trade.
At the Malvern show yesterday I overheard one or two stall holders >>>>>>>> apologise for their slowness as it was the first time they had taken cards.
The little square card readers were much in evidence. There was the >>>>>>>> occasional stall that had a notice stating they preferred cash but would
accept cards. I donrCOt think I actually saw anyone using cash. >>>>>>>
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought >>>>>>> the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the >>>>>>> one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was >>>>>>> installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and
part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the >>>>>>> exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes >>>>>>> their heart sink.
Strange that BT would use O2, not its own EE?
And, it seems that they do use EE, not O2:
**Missing word alert!!**
"all" vs "some"...
...Openreach engineers use EE as their mobile network provider.
As part of the BT Group, Openreach engineers are equipped with EErCOs 4G and
5G network to stay connected while working across the UK.
Key details about Openreach's mobile usage:Powered by EE: The partnership,
often highlighted in EE Business case studies, provides engineers with >>>>> connectivity to use specialized apps on iPads for accessing network data, >>>>> satellite images, and tools, even in remote rural areas.
4G/5G Coverage: Engineers rely on EErCOs network to access apps for planning,
surveying, and managing work orders.
While Openreach works with over 650 different service providers (such as >>>>> Sky, TalkTalk, and Vodafone) to provide connectivity to customers, their >>>>> internal field engineering teams use EE.
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they
were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked >>>> into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to believe. >>>
DonrCOt you mean EE?
Yes, sorry, I do indeed!
In message <WjILR.14$hy1.10@fx16.ams1>, at 15:23:34 on Sat, 9 May 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <jLBLR.649$UEa.95@fx10.ams1>, at 07:54:55 on Sat, 9 May 2026, >>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkihc$2rk65$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:47:57 on Fri, 8 May >>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkb88$2p3br$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:36 on Fri, 8 May >>>>>>>> 2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
Even Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these >>>>>>>>>> days. All the
continental European countries I visit these days have gone >>>>>>>>>> cashless. My
emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet.
What is Spain like now? Going to be visiting Madrid later in the year.
I've been to several Spanish cities the last two or three years, and >>>>>>>> it's pretty much the same as UK. Most overpriced hospitality take >>>>>>>> cards/phones by default, but some smaller places prefer cash.
I think werCOve reached a tipping point with card acceptance. ItrCOs so >>>>>>> widespread that the refusniks have now realised that they are
losing trade.
At the Malvern show yesterday I overheard one or two stall holders >>>>>>> apologise for their slowness as it was the first time they had
taken cards.
The little square card readers were much in evidence. There was the >>>>>>> occasional stall that had a notice stating they preferred cash but would
accept cards. I donrCOt think I actually saw anyone using cash.
I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was >>>>>> because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought >>>>>> the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the >>>>>> one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was >>>>>> installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and >>>>>> part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the
exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes >>>>>> their heart sink.
Strange that BT would use O2, not its own EE?
And, it seems that they do use EE, not O2:
**Missing word alert!!**
"all" vs "some"...
...Openreach engineers use EE as their mobile network provider.
As part of the BT Group, Openreach engineers are equipped with EErCOs 4G and
5G network to stay connected while working across the UK.
Key details about Openreach's mobile usage:Powered by EE: The partnership, >>>> often highlighted in EE Business case studies, provides engineers with >>>> connectivity to use specialized apps on iPads for accessing network data, >>>> satellite images, and tools, even in remote rural areas.
4G/5G Coverage: Engineers rely on EErCOs network to access apps for
planning,
surveying, and managing work orders.
While Openreach works with over 650 different service providers (such as >>>> Sky, TalkTalk, and Vodafone) to provide connectivity to customers, their >>>> internal field engineering teams use EE.
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they
were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to believe.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily be
switched overnight to EE.
On 09/05/2026 16:38, Recliner wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <jLBLR.649$UEa.95@fx10.ams1>, at 07:54:55 on Sat, 9 May 2026, >>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkihc$2rk65$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:47:57 on Fri, 8 May >>>>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was >>>>>>>> because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
In message <10tkb88$2p3br$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:36 on Fri, 8 MayI think werCOve reached a tipping point with card acceptance. ItrCOs so
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
Even Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these >>>>>>>>>>>> days. All theWhat is Spain like now? Going to be visiting Madrid later in the year.
continental European countries I visit these days have gone cashless. My
emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet. >>>>>>>>>>>
I've been to several Spanish cities the last two or three years, and >>>>>>>>>> it's pretty much the same as UK. Most overpriced hospitality take >>>>>>>>>> cards/phones by default, but some smaller places prefer cash. >>>>>>>>>
widespread that the refusniks have now realised that they are losing trade.
At the Malvern show yesterday I overheard one or two stall holders >>>>>>>>> apologise for their slowness as it was the first time they had taken cards.
The little square card readers were much in evidence. There was the >>>>>>>>> occasional stall that had a notice stating they preferred cash but would
accept cards. I donrCOt think I actually saw anyone using cash. >>>>>>>>
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought
the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the >>>>>>>> one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was >>>>>>>> installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and
part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the >>>>>>>> exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes >>>>>>>> their heart sink.
Strange that BT would use O2, not its own EE?
And, it seems that they do use EE, not O2:
**Missing word alert!!**
"all" vs "some"...
...Openreach engineers use EE as their mobile network provider.
As part of the BT Group, Openreach engineers are equipped with EErCOs 4G and
5G network to stay connected while working across the UK.
Key details about Openreach's mobile usage:Powered by EE: The partnership,
often highlighted in EE Business case studies, provides engineers with >>>>>> connectivity to use specialized apps on iPads for accessing network data,
satellite images, and tools, even in remote rural areas.
4G/5G Coverage: Engineers rely on EErCOs network to access apps for planning,
surveying, and managing work orders.
While Openreach works with over 650 different service providers (such as >>>>>> Sky, TalkTalk, and Vodafone) to provide connectivity to customers, their >>>>>> internal field engineering teams use EE.
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked >>>>> into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to believe. >>>>
DonrCOt you mean EE?
Yes, sorry, I do indeed!
O2 was originally BT but was hived off at some stage.
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 09/05/2026 16:38, Recliner wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <jLBLR.649$UEa.95@fx10.ams1>, at 07:54:55 on Sat, 9 May 2026, >>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tkihc$2rk65$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:47:57 on Fri, 8 May >>>>>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was
In message <10tkb88$2p3br$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:43:36 on Fri, 8 MayI think werCOve reached a tipping point with card acceptance. ItrCOs so
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
Even Germany has acknowledged that credit cards exist these >>>>>>>>>>>>> days. All theWhat is Spain like now? Going to be visiting Madrid later in the year.
continental European countries I visit these days have gone cashless. My
emergency Euro bank notes remain untouched in my wallet. >>>>>>>>>>>>
I've been to several Spanish cities the last two or three years, and
it's pretty much the same as UK. Most overpriced hospitality take >>>>>>>>>>> cards/phones by default, but some smaller places prefer cash. >>>>>>>>>>
widespread that the refusniks have now realised that they are losing trade.
At the Malvern show yesterday I overheard one or two stall holders >>>>>>>>>> apologise for their slowness as it was the first time they had taken cards.
The little square card readers were much in evidence. There was the >>>>>>>>>> occasional stall that had a notice stating they preferred cash but would
accept cards. I donrCOt think I actually saw anyone using cash. >>>>>>>>>
because their little card readers weren't working, due to the >>>>>>>>> legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought
the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the >>>>>>>>> one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was
installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and
part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the >>>>>>>>> exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes
their heart sink.
Strange that BT would use O2, not its own EE?
And, it seems that they do use EE, not O2:
**Missing word alert!!**
"all" vs "some"...
...Openreach engineers use EE as their mobile network provider.
As part of the BT Group, Openreach engineers are equipped with EErCOs 4G and
5G network to stay connected while working across the UK.
Key details about Openreach's mobile usage:Powered by EE: The partnership,
often highlighted in EE Business case studies, provides engineers with >>>>>>> connectivity to use specialized apps on iPads for accessing network data,
satellite images, and tools, even in remote rural areas.
4G/5G Coverage: Engineers rely on EErCOs network to access apps for planning,
surveying, and managing work orders.
While Openreach works with over 650 different service providers (such as
Sky, TalkTalk, and Vodafone) to provide connectivity to customers, their
internal field engineering teams use EE.
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked >>>>>> into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to believe. >>>>>
DonrCOt you mean EE?
Yes, sorry, I do indeed!
O2 was originally BT but was hived off at some stage.
Yes, in 2001, though the O2 branding came later. The Openreach brand also came later.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily beThe Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they
were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked >>>> into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to believe. >>
switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. TheyrCOd have >switched all internal mobile phone contracts to their own network by 2018.
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
O2 was originally BT but was hived off at some stage.
Yes, in 2001, though the O2 branding came later. The Openreach brand >>also came later.
Was originally Cellnet
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily beThe Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked >>>>> into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to believe. >>>
switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. TheyrCOd have >> switched all internal mobile phone contracts to their own network by 2018. >>
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone, because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the
same part of the town.
On 09/05/2026 09:02, Tweed wrote:
More to the point, why is o2 reception apparently so poor in Ely?Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
I paid cash for my pint at the beer tent in Ely last weekend. That was >>>>> because their little card readers weren't working, due to the
legendarily bad mobile coverage along the Riverside. You'd have thought >>>>> the organisers should have warned them.
It affects several networks, but O2 the most, which happens to be the >>>>> one preferred by the payment gadgets.
A couple of years ago I had a chat with an Openreach engineers who was >>>>> installing full-fibre, and they are issued with mobile phones on O2, and >>>>> part of the process involves them "phoning a friend" back at the
exchange. Apparently getting an install job in that part of town makes >>>>> their heart sink.
Presumably there is a large historic building which shields some parts of the city, and provokes objections to masts being sited nearby.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily beThe Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked >>>>>> into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to believe. >>>>
switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. TheyrCOd have >>> switched all internal mobile phone contracts to their own network by 2018. >>>
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone,
because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially
interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the
same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information.
It will be much more likely that he will have had a BT Mobile service--
and he was assuming that o2 was still the underlying provider of that >service.
In message <10tpou8$arcv$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:52 on Sun, 10 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked >>>>>>> into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to believe.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily be
switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. TheyrCOd have >>>> switched all internal mobile phone contracts to their own network by 2018. >>>>
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone,
because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially
interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the
same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information.
I'm not assuming anything. There was a detailed conversation and I don't like being told I haven't done my research.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they
were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to believe.
Why would a contractor (who is someone I would regard as "an Openreach
person") have different rules?
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily beThe Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked >>>>>> into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to believe. >>>>
switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. TheyrCOd have >>> switched all internal mobile phone contracts to their own network by 2018. >>>
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone,
because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially
interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the
same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information. It will be much more likely that he will have had a BT Mobile service and he was assuming that o2 was still the underlying provider of that service.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tpou8$arcv$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:52 on Sun, 10 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>>>>believe.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily be >>>>>> switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. TheyrCOd have
switched all internal mobile phone contracts to their own network by 2018.
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone, >>>> because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially
interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the
same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information.
I'm not assuming anything. There was a detailed conversation and I don't
like being told I haven't done my research.
I realise yourCOre painfully addicted to anecdata, and violently allergic to >facts and actual research,
let alone providing links to such research, which would violate your >deepest-held beliefs, but the rest of us prefer evidence, such as:
https://business.ee.co.uk/content/dam/eeb-site/reerefresh-2024/bt-openre >ach-enterprise-mobility-case-study.pdf
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked >>>>>>> into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to believe.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily be
switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. TheyrCOd have >>>> switched all internal mobile phone contracts to their own network by 2018. >>>>
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone,
because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially
interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the
same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information. It will >> be much more likely that he will have had a BT Mobile service and he was
assuming that o2 was still the underlying provider of that service.
It occurs to me that the BT OR engineer might have been amusing himself by >winding up an annoying old git who wouldnrCOt let him get on with his work,
by telling him a fairy tale that slagged off a competitor. Two birds with
one stone.
On 09/05/2026 16:23, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they
were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>believe.
On 25/01/2026 16:25, Roland Perry wrote:
Why would a contractor (who is someone I would regard as "an
Openreach person") have different rules?
In message <Ey7MR.39$hy1.21@fx16.ams1>, at 22:22:28 on Sun, 10 May 2026, >Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tpou8$arcv$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:52 on Sun, 10 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>>>>>believe.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily be >>>>>>> switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. TheyrCOd have
switched all internal mobile phone contracts to their own network by 2018.
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone, >>>>> because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially
interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the >>>>> same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information.
I'm not assuming anything. There was a detailed conversation and I don't >>> like being told I haven't done my research.
I realise yourCOre painfully addicted to anecdata, and violently allergic to >>facts and actual research,
Same tired, old, discredited playbook.
I don't suppose you realise that every time you use it, it knocks
percentage points off your own credibility.
Or are you so desperate for "engagement" that you don't care.
let alone providing links to such research, which would violate your >>deepest-held beliefs, but the rest of us prefer evidence, such as:
https://business.ee.co.uk/content/dam/eeb-site/reerefresh-2024/bt-openre >>ach-enterprise-mobility-case-study.pdf
And what is wrong with my evidence, a detailed conversation with an >Openreach employee, concentrating on mobile phone coverage [rather than
full fibre bits and bobs - I'd already sussed that out from earlier >Openreach engineers] who despite your apparent addiction to
Dunning-Kruger really did sound like he knew what he was talking about.
In message <k8jMR.32$z8a.23@fx09.ams1>, at 11:33:36 on Mon, 11 May 2026, >Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to believe.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily be >>>>>> switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. TheyrCOd have
switched all internal mobile phone contracts to their own network by 2018.
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone, >>>> because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially
interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the
same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information. It will >>> be much more likely that he will have had a BT Mobile service and he was >>> assuming that o2 was still the underlying provider of that service.
It occurs to me that the BT OR engineer might have been amusing himself by >>winding up an annoying old git who wouldnrCOt let him get on with his work,
He couldn't anyway, because of lack of O2 signal. If he'd been on EE
then he probably wouldn't have been hung out to dry like that.
by telling him a fairy tale that slagged off a competitor. Two birds with >>one stone.
Then you'd be very disappointed, because that wasn't the tone of the >conversation at all.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 14:44:18 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <Ey7MR.39$hy1.21@fx16.ams1>, at 22:22:28 on Sun, 10 May 2026,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tpou8$arcv$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:52 on Sun, 10 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May >>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>>>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>>>>>> believe.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily be >>>>>>>> switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. TheyrCOd have
switched all internal mobile phone contracts to their own network by 2018.
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone, >>>>>> because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially
interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the >>>>>> same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information.
I'm not assuming anything. There was a detailed conversation and I don't >>>> like being told I haven't done my research.
I realise yourCOre painfully addicted to anecdata, and violently allergic to
facts and actual research,
Same tired, old, discredited playbook.
I don't suppose you realise that every time you use it, it knocks
percentage points off your own credibility.
Or are you so desperate for "engagement" that you don't care.
let alone providing links to such research, which would violate your
deepest-held beliefs, but the rest of us prefer evidence, such as:
https://business.ee.co.uk/content/dam/eeb-site/reerefresh-2024/bt-openre >>> ach-enterprise-mobility-case-study.pdf
And what is wrong with my evidence, a detailed conversation with an
Openreach employee, concentrating on mobile phone coverage [rather than
full fibre bits and bobs - I'd already sussed that out from earlier
Openreach engineers] who despite your apparent addiction to
Dunning-Kruger really did sound like he knew what he was talking about.
An OR engineer in 2024 would certainly have had a phone connected by EE, whatever you might claim.
So, one way or another, you're confused.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 14:44:18 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <Ey7MR.39$hy1.21@fx16.ams1>, at 22:22:28 on Sun, 10 May 2026, >>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tpou8$arcv$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:52 on Sun, 10 May >>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:I'm not assuming anything. There was a detailed conversation and I don't >>>>> like being told I haven't done my research.
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May >>>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they
were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>>>>>>> believe.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily be >>>>>>>>> switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. TheyrCOd have
switched all internal mobile phone contracts to their own network by 2018.
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone, >>>>>>> because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially >>>>>>> interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the >>>>>>> same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information. >>>>>
I realise yourCOre painfully addicted to anecdata, and violently allergic to
facts and actual research,
Same tired, old, discredited playbook.
I don't suppose you realise that every time you use it, it knocks
percentage points off your own credibility.
Or are you so desperate for "engagement" that you don't care.
let alone providing links to such research, which would violate your
deepest-held beliefs, but the rest of us prefer evidence, such as:
https://business.ee.co.uk/content/dam/eeb-site/reerefresh-2024/bt-openre >>>> ach-enterprise-mobility-case-study.pdf
And what is wrong with my evidence, a detailed conversation with an
Openreach employee, concentrating on mobile phone coverage [rather than
full fibre bits and bobs - I'd already sussed that out from earlier
Openreach engineers] who despite your apparent addiction to
Dunning-Kruger really did sound like he knew what he was talking about.
An OR engineer in 2024 would certainly have had a phone connected by EE,
whatever you might claim.
So, one way or another, you're confused.
Was he an OpenReach employee or a subcontractor such as Kelly
Communications?
On 11/05/2026 15:57, Tweed wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 14:44:18 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
In message <Ey7MR.39$hy1.21@fx16.ams1>, at 22:22:28 on Sun, 10 May 2026, >>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:An OR engineer in 2024 would certainly have had a phone connected by EE, >>> whatever you might claim.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tpou8$arcv$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:52 on Sun, 10 May >>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:I'm not assuming anything. There was a detailed conversation and I don't >>>>>> like being told I haven't done my research.
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May >>>>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they
were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>>>>>>>> believe.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily be >>>>>>>>>> switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. TheyrCOd have
switched all internal mobile phone contracts to their own network by 2018.
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone,
because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially >>>>>>>> interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the >>>>>>>> same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information. >>>>>>
I realise yourCOre painfully addicted to anecdata, and violently allergic to
facts and actual research,
Same tired, old, discredited playbook.
I don't suppose you realise that every time you use it, it knocks
percentage points off your own credibility.
Or are you so desperate for "engagement" that you don't care.
let alone providing links to such research, which would violate your >>>>> deepest-held beliefs, but the rest of us prefer evidence, such as:
https://business.ee.co.uk/content/dam/eeb-site/reerefresh-2024/bt-openre >>>>> ach-enterprise-mobility-case-study.pdf
And what is wrong with my evidence, a detailed conversation with an
Openreach employee, concentrating on mobile phone coverage [rather than >>>> full fibre bits and bobs - I'd already sussed that out from earlier
Openreach engineers] who despite your apparent addiction to
Dunning-Kruger really did sound like he knew what he was talking about. >>>
So, one way or another, you're confused.
Was he an OpenReach employee or a subcontractor such as Kelly
Communications?
Good point. Some subcontractors can be heavily disguised as staff and
use language which, while not actually untrue, gives the impression that
they are permanent direct employees. However, they might well use
whichever supplier offered the cheapest connection and that's rarely BT.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 14:48:00 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <k8jMR.32$z8a.23@fx09.ams1>, at 11:33:36 on Mon, 11 May 2026, >>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:He couldn't anyway, because of lack of O2 signal. If he'd been on EE
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, >>>>>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to >>>>>>>>>get locked into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard >>>>>>>>to believe.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily be >>>>>>> switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. >>>>>>TheyrCOd have
switched all internal mobile phone contracts to their own network >>>>>>by 2018.
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone, >>>>> because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially
interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the >>>>> same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information. It will
be much more likely that he will have had a BT Mobile service and he was >>>> assuming that o2 was still the underlying provider of that service.
It occurs to me that the BT OR engineer might have been amusing himself by >>>winding up an annoying old git who wouldnrCOt let him get on with his work, >>
then he probably wouldn't have been hung out to dry like that.
How would he have any idea of what strength the local O2 signal was,
given that his phone was connected via EE?
by telling him a fairy tale that slagged off a competitor. Two birds with >>>one stone.
Then you'd be very disappointed, because that wasn't the tone of the >>conversation at all.
He clearly fooled you very well!
On Mon, 11 May 2026 14:44:18 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <Ey7MR.39$hy1.21@fx16.ams1>, at 22:22:28 on Sun, 10 May 2026, >>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tpou8$arcv$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:52 on Sun, 10 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May >>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, >>>>>>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to >>>>>>>>>>get locked into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>>>>>>believe.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily be >>>>>>>> switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. >>>>>>>TheyrCOd have switched all internal mobile phone contracts to >>>>>>>their own network by 2018.
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone, >>>>>> because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially
interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the >>>>>> same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information.
I'm not assuming anything. There was a detailed conversation and I don't >>>> like being told I haven't done my research.
I realise yourCOre painfully addicted to anecdata, and violently allergic to >>>facts and actual research,
Same tired, old, discredited playbook.
I don't suppose you realise that every time you use it, it knocks >>percentage points off your own credibility.
Or are you so desperate for "engagement" that you don't care.
let alone providing links to such research, which would violate your >>>deepest-held beliefs, but the rest of us prefer evidence, such as:
https://business.ee.co.uk/content/dam/eeb-site/reerefresh-2024/bt-openre >>>ach-enterprise-mobility-case-study.pdf
And what is wrong with my evidence, a detailed conversation with an >>Openreach employee, concentrating on mobile phone coverage [rather than >>full fibre bits and bobs - I'd already sussed that out from earlier >>Openreach engineers] who despite your apparent addiction to
Dunning-Kruger really did sound like he knew what he was talking about.
An OR engineer in 2024 would certainly have had a phone connected by
EE, whatever you might claim.
In message <Ey7MR.39$hy1.21@fx16.ams1>, at 22:22:28 on Sun, 10 May 2026, >Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tpou8$arcv$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:52 on Sun, 10 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May
2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>>>>>believe.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily be >>>>>>> switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. TheyAd have >>>>>> switched all internal mobile phone contracts to their own network by 2018.
So I simply donAt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone, >>>>> because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially
interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the >>>>> same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information.
I'm not assuming anything. There was a detailed conversation and I don't >>> like being told I haven't done my research.
I realise youAre painfully addicted to anecdata, and violently allergic to >>facts and actual research,
Same tired, old, discredited playbook.
I don't suppose you realise that every time you use it, it knocks
percentage points off your own credibility.
Or are you so desperate for "engagement" that you don't care.
let alone providing links to such research, which would violate your >>deepest-held beliefs, but the rest of us prefer evidence, such as:
https://business.ee.co.uk/content/dam/eeb-site/reerefresh-2024/bt-openre >>ach-enterprise-mobility-case-study.pdf
And what is wrong with my evidence, a detailed conversation with an >Openreach employee, concentrating on mobile phone coverage [rather than
full fibre bits and bobs - I'd already sussed that out from earlier >Openreach engineers] who despite your apparent addiction to
Dunning-Kruger really did sound like he knew what he was talking about.
Just because he's a broadband engineer, do you suppose he was unable to
work out the model of van he was driving?
On 11/05/2026 15:57, Tweed wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 14:44:18 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
In message <Ey7MR.39$hy1.21@fx16.ams1>, at 22:22:28 on Sun, 10 May 2026, >>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:An OR engineer in 2024 would certainly have had a phone connected by EE, >>> whatever you might claim.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tpou8$arcv$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:52 on Sun, 10 May >>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:I'm not assuming anything. There was a detailed conversation and I don't >>>>>> like being told I haven't done my research.
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May >>>>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they
were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>>>>>>>> believe.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily be >>>>>>>>>> switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. TheyAd have
switched all internal mobile phone contracts to their own network by 2018.
So I simply donAt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone,
because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially >>>>>>>> interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the >>>>>>>> same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information. >>>>>>
I realise youAre painfully addicted to anecdata, and violently allergic to
facts and actual research,
Same tired, old, discredited playbook.
I don't suppose you realise that every time you use it, it knocks
percentage points off your own credibility.
Or are you so desperate for "engagement" that you don't care.
let alone providing links to such research, which would violate your >>>>> deepest-held beliefs, but the rest of us prefer evidence, such as:
https://business.ee.co.uk/content/dam/eeb-site/reerefresh-2024/bt-openre >>>>> ach-enterprise-mobility-case-study.pdf
And what is wrong with my evidence, a detailed conversation with an
Openreach employee, concentrating on mobile phone coverage [rather than >>>> full fibre bits and bobs - I'd already sussed that out from earlier
Openreach engineers] who despite your apparent addiction to
Dunning-Kruger really did sound like he knew what he was talking about. >>>
So, one way or another, you're confused.
Was he an OpenReach employee or a subcontractor such as Kelly
Communications?
Good point. Some subcontractors can be heavily disguised as staff and
use language which, while not actually untrue, gives the impression that
they are permanent direct employees. However, they might well use
whichever supplier offered the cheapest connection and that's rarely BT.
In message <9io30l5frnft5h29oasch1u5pvh5nteruv@4ax.com>, at 15:07:59 on
Mon, 11 May 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 14:44:18 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <Ey7MR.39$hy1.21@fx16.ams1>, at 22:22:28 on Sun, 10 May 2026, >>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tpou8$arcv$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:52 on Sun, 10 May >>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:I'm not assuming anything. There was a detailed conversation and I don't >>>>> like being told I haven't done my research.
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May >>>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, >>>>>>>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to >>>>>>>>>>> get locked into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>>>>>>> believe.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily be >>>>>>>>> switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago.
TheyrCOd have switched all internal mobile phone contracts to >>>>>>>> their own network by 2018.
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone, >>>>>>> because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially >>>>>>> interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the >>>>>>> same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information. >>>>>
I realise yourCOre painfully addicted to anecdata, and violently allergic to
facts and actual research,
Same tired, old, discredited playbook.
I don't suppose you realise that every time you use it, it knocks
percentage points off your own credibility.
Or are you so desperate for "engagement" that you don't care.
let alone providing links to such research, which would violate your
deepest-held beliefs, but the rest of us prefer evidence, such as:
https://business.ee.co.uk/content/dam/eeb-site/reerefresh-2024/bt-openre >>>> ach-enterprise-mobility-case-study.pdf
And what is wrong with my evidence, a detailed conversation with an
Openreach employee, concentrating on mobile phone coverage [rather than
full fibre bits and bobs - I'd already sussed that out from earlier
Openreach engineers] who despite your apparent addiction to
Dunning-Kruger really did sound like he knew what he was talking about.
An OR engineer in 2024 would certainly have had a phone connected by
EE, whatever you might claim.
What's your evidence for that? Many (most?) are self employed subcontractors, so perhaps able to make their own choices about
phone and network.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <9io30l5frnft5h29oasch1u5pvh5nteruv@4ax.com>, at 15:07:59 on
Mon, 11 May 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 14:44:18 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
In message <Ey7MR.39$hy1.21@fx16.ams1>, at 22:22:28 on Sun, 10 May 2026, >>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:An OR engineer in 2024 would certainly have had a phone connected by
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tpou8$arcv$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:52 on Sun, 10 May >>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:I'm not assuming anything. There was a detailed conversation and I don't >>>>>> like being told I haven't done my research.
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May >>>>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, >>>>>>>>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to >>>>>>>>>>>> get locked into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>>>>>>>> believe.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily be >>>>>>>>>> switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. >>>>>>>>> TheyrCOd have switched all internal mobile phone contracts to >>>>>>>>> their own network by 2018.
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone,
because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially >>>>>>>> interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the >>>>>>>> same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information. >>>>>>
I realise yourCOre painfully addicted to anecdata, and violently >>>>>allergic to
facts and actual research,
Same tired, old, discredited playbook.
I don't suppose you realise that every time you use it, it knocks
percentage points off your own credibility.
Or are you so desperate for "engagement" that you don't care.
let alone providing links to such research, which would violate your >>>>> deepest-held beliefs, but the rest of us prefer evidence, such as:
https://business.ee.co.uk/content/dam/eeb-site/reerefresh-2024/bt-openre >>>>> ach-enterprise-mobility-case-study.pdf
And what is wrong with my evidence, a detailed conversation with an
Openreach employee, concentrating on mobile phone coverage [rather than >>>> full fibre bits and bobs - I'd already sussed that out from earlier
Openreach engineers] who despite your apparent addiction to
Dunning-Kruger really did sound like he knew what he was talking about. >>>
EE, whatever you might claim.
What's your evidence for that? Many (most?) are self employed
subcontractors, so perhaps able to make their own choices about
phone and network.
The document linked above talks about 28,000 engineers, and rolling out >16,000 iPhones on EErCOs 4G and 5G network in a year. The small print at the >bottom dates it as 2021,
though of course that could be a hangover from a previous edition of
the document. I didnrCOt spot a mention of the other 12,000 engineers.
Sam
On Mon, 11 May 2026 16:15:51 +0100, Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
On 11/05/2026 15:57, Tweed wrote:BT's subcontractors tend to be a bit "single subject" like the one who
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2026 14:44:18 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>
In message <Ey7MR.39$hy1.21@fx16.ams1>, at 22:22:28 on Sun, 10 May 2026, >>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:An OR engineer in 2024 would certainly have had a phone connected by EE, >>>> whatever you might claim.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tpou8$arcv$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:52 on Sun, 10 May >>>>>>> 2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:I'm not assuming anything. There was a detailed conversation and I don't
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May >>>>>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years >>>>>>>>>>>>>ago, and they
were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, >>>>>>>>>>>>>to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>>>>>>>>> believe.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily be >>>>>>>>>>> switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. >>>>>>>>>>TheyrCOd have
switched all internal mobile phone contracts to their own >>>>>>>>>>network by 2018.
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an >>>>>>>>>O2 phone,
because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially >>>>>>>>> interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the >>>>>>>>> same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information. >>>>>>>
like being told I haven't done my research.
I realise yourCOre painfully addicted to anecdata, and violently >>>>>>allergic to
facts and actual research,
Same tired, old, discredited playbook.
I don't suppose you realise that every time you use it, it knocks
percentage points off your own credibility.
Or are you so desperate for "engagement" that you don't care.
let alone providing links to such research, which would violate your >>>>>> deepest-held beliefs, but the rest of us prefer evidence, such as: >>>>>>
https://business.ee.co.uk/content/dam/eeb-site/reerefresh-2024/bt-openre >>>>>> ach-enterprise-mobility-case-study.pdf
And what is wrong with my evidence, a detailed conversation with an
Openreach employee, concentrating on mobile phone coverage [rather than >>>>> full fibre bits and bobs - I'd already sussed that out from earlier
Openreach engineers] who despite your apparent addiction to
Dunning-Kruger really did sound like he knew what he was talking about. >>>>
So, one way or another, you're confused.
Was he an OpenReach employee or a subcontractor such as Kelly
Communications?
Good point. Some subcontractors can be heavily disguised as staff and
use language which, while not actually untrue, gives the impression that >>they are permanent direct employees. However, they might well use >>whichever supplier offered the cheapest connection and that's rarely BT.
came to install the drop for my broadband but clearly had not been
listening during the lessons on how to drill a hole in a wall for the
real enginer who came later to join the NTE to the fibre lead. Back in
my day the whole lot would have been done by the same person and
normally without "blowing" the brickwork.
On Mon, 11 May 2026 14:44:18 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
In message <Ey7MR.39$hy1.21@fx16.ams1>, at 22:22:28 on Sun, 10 May 2026, >>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:I have encountered many people who sound like they know what they were >talking until they fail on one fundamental point which demonstrates
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <10tpou8$arcv$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:07:52 on Sun, 10 May
2026, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <ctNLR.233$uZ9.137@fx15.ams1>, at 21:14:48 on Sat, 9 May >>>>>> 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>>>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to >>>>>>>>>>get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
Given that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>>>>>>believe.
Eh? Ten years with O2 (according to you) which won't necessarily be >>>>>>>> switched overnight to EE.
As Tweed pointed out, I meant they acquired EE a decade ago. TheyrCOd have
switched all internal mobile phone contracts to their own >>>>>>>network by 2018.
So I simply donrCOt believe you.
<Shrug> I'm absolutely certain that Openreach Engineer had an O2 phone, >>>>>> because we chatted about it for some length, and I was especially
interesting in learning about it, due to my own issues with O2 in the >>>>>> same part of the town.
You are assuming that the engineer was giving accurate information.
I'm not assuming anything. There was a detailed conversation and I don't >>>> like being told I haven't done my research.
I realise yourCOre painfully addicted to anecdata, and violently allergic to >>>facts and actual research,
Same tired, old, discredited playbook.
I don't suppose you realise that every time you use it, it knocks >>percentage points off your own credibility.
Or are you so desperate for "engagement" that you don't care.
let alone providing links to such research, which would violate your >>>deepest-held beliefs, but the rest of us prefer evidence, such as:
https://business.ee.co.uk/content/dam/eeb-site/reerefresh-2024/bt-openre >>>ach-enterprise-mobility-case-study.pdf
And what is wrong with my evidence, a detailed conversation with an >>Openreach employee, concentrating on mobile phone coverage [rather than >>full fibre bits and bobs - I'd already sussed that out from earlier >>Openreach engineers] who despite your apparent addiction to
Dunning-Kruger really did sound like he knew what he was talking about.
they aren't as expert as many might think.
Just because he's a broadband engineer, do you suppose he was unable to >>work out the model of van he was driving?I spent a week driving four different but similar vans not long ago, I >suspect I would have been far from alone in needing to look at the
badge on the steering wheel had a PC asked me what I was driving.
And your ability to scoff at the supposed incompetence of others, knows
no bounds.
In message <10tsak8$toii$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:22:00 on Mon, 11 May 2026, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 09/05/2026 16:23, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they
were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked >>>> into legacy contracts for some time.
-aGiven that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to believe. >>On 25/01/2026 16:25, Roland Perry wrote:
Why would a contractor (who is someone I would regard as "an
Openreach person") have different rules?
No idea what point you are trying to make, or are you just trying to incite "engagement" (known back in the day as 'trolling')
On 11/05/2026 14:46, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10tsak8$toii$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:22:00 on Mon, 11 May 2026, >> Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 09/05/2026 16:23, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked >>>>> into legacy contracts for some time.
-aGiven that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to believe.
On 25/01/2026 16:25, Roland Perry wrote:
Why would a contractor (who is someone I would regard as "an
Openreach person") have different rules?
No idea what point you are trying to make, or are you just trying to incite >> "engagement" (known back in the day as 'trolling')
I'm suggesting that Recliner may have a different understanding of the
term 'Openreach engineer' to you, and engaging pointlessly.
On 12/05/2026 08:29, Roland Perry wrote:
And your ability to scoff at the supposed incompetence of others,
knows no bounds.
Pot, meet kettle.
On 11/05/2026 14:46, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10tsak8$toii$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:22:00 on Mon, 11 May >>2026, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 09/05/2026 16:23, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked >>>>> into legacy contracts for some time.
aGiven that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>believe.
On 25/01/2026 16:25, Roland Perry wrote:
Why would a contractor (who is someone I would regard as "an
Openreach person") have different rules?
No idea what point you are trying to make, or are you just trying to >>incite "engagement" (known back in the day as 'trolling')
I'm suggesting that Recliner may have a different understanding of the
term 'Openreach engineer' to you, and engaging pointlessly.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 11:00:22 +0100, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 11/05/2026 14:46, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10tsak8$toii$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:22:00 on Mon, 11 May 2026, >>> Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 09/05/2026 16:23, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked >>>>>> into legacy contracts for some time.
aGiven that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>>believe.
On 25/01/2026 16:25, Roland Perry wrote:
Why would a contractor (who is someone I would regard as "an
Openreach person") have different rules?
No idea what point you are trying to make, or are you just trying to incite >>> "engagement" (known back in the day as 'trolling')
I'm suggesting that Recliner may have a different understanding of the >>term 'Openreach engineer' to you, and engaging pointlessly.
Exactly. If this guy really did have an O2 connected phone, he was a >sub-contractor, not an employee of BT OR.
In message <10tuna7$1q1ji$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:10:47 on Tue, 12 May
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 12/05/2026 08:29, Roland Perry wrote:
And your ability to scoff at the supposed incompetence of others,
knows no bounds.
Pot, meet kettle.
I give constructive criticism about poorly-performing individuals I encounter. He tars whole classes of worker with the same brush.
In message <nde60ll9jqcclpcjkokqn53m0kmt6qvm70@4ax.com>, at 15:32:11 on
Tue, 12 May 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Tue, 12 May 2026 11:00:22 +0100, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 11/05/2026 14:46, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10tsak8$toii$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:22:00 on Mon, 11 May 2026,
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 09/05/2026 16:23, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked >>>>>>> into legacy contracts for some time.
-aGiven that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>>>believe.
On 25/01/2026 16:25, Roland Perry wrote:
Why would a contractor (who is someone I would regard as "an
Openreach person") have different rules?
No idea what point you are trying to make, or are you just trying to incite
"engagement" (known back in the day as 'trolling')
I'm suggesting that Recliner may have a different understanding of the >>>term 'Openreach engineer' to you, and engaging pointlessly.
Exactly. If this guy really did have an O2 connected phone, he was a >>sub-contractor, not an employee of BT OR.
Classic "invisible word" syndrome there. But of course if you wish to >differentiate between the two, it means you must also believe that my >engineer had an O2 phone, something you've been denying for days.
In message <10tuna7$1q1ji$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:10:47 on Tue, 12 May
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 12/05/2026 08:29, Roland Perry wrote:
And your ability to scoff at the supposed incompetence of others,
knows no bounds.
Pot, meet kettle.
I give constructive criticism about poorly-performing individuals I encounter. He tars whole classes of worker with the same brush.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 18:08:01 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <nde60ll9jqcclpcjkokqn53m0kmt6qvm70@4ax.com>, at 15:32:11 on
Tue, 12 May 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Tue, 12 May 2026 11:00:22 +0100, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote: >>>
On 11/05/2026 14:46, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10tsak8$toii$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:22:00 on Mon, 11 May 2026,
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 09/05/2026 16:23, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
-aGiven that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>>>> believe.
On 25/01/2026 16:25, Roland Perry wrote:
Why would a contractor (who is someone I would regard as "an
Openreach person") have different rules?
No idea what point you are trying to make, or are you just trying to incite
"engagement" (known back in the day as 'trolling')
I'm suggesting that Recliner may have a different understanding of the >>>> term 'Openreach engineer' to you, and engaging pointlessly.
Exactly. If this guy really did have an O2 connected phone, he was a
sub-contractor, not an employee of BT OR.
Classic "invisible word" syndrome there. But of course if you wish to
differentiate between the two, it means you must also believe that my
engineer had an O2 phone, something you've been denying for days.
He was either an OR engineer or had an O2 phone. Both cannot be correct
at once. So you tell us which of your two
'facts' was incorrect?
In message <10tuna7$1q1ji$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:10:47 on Tue, 12 May
2026, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 12/05/2026 08:29, Roland Perry wrote:
And your ability to scoff at the supposed incompetence of others,
knows no bounds.
Pot, meet kettle.
I give constructive criticism about poorly-performing individuals I >encounter. He tars whole classes of worker with the same brush.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 18:08:01 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <nde60ll9jqcclpcjkokqn53m0kmt6qvm70@4ax.com>, at 15:32:11 on >>Tue, 12 May 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Tue, 12 May 2026 11:00:22 +0100, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote: >>>
On 11/05/2026 14:46, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10tsak8$toii$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:22:00 on Mon, 11 >>>>>May 2026,
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 09/05/2026 16:23, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
aGiven that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>>>>believe.
On 25/01/2026 16:25, Roland Perry wrote:
Why would a contractor (who is someone I would regard as "an
Openreach person") have different rules?
No idea what point you are trying to make, or are you just trying >>>>>to incite
"engagement" (known back in the day as 'trolling')
I'm suggesting that Recliner may have a different understanding of the >>>>term 'Openreach engineer' to you, and engaging pointlessly.
Exactly. If this guy really did have an O2 connected phone, he was a >>>sub-contractor, not an employee of BT OR.
Classic "invisible word" syndrome there. But of course if you wish to >>differentiate between the two, it means you must also believe that my >>engineer had an O2 phone, something you've been denying for days.
He was either an OR engineer or had an O2 phone. Both cannot be correct
at once. So you tell us which of your two 'facts' was incorrect?
I'm suggesting that Recliner may have a different understanding of the >>>>> term 'Openreach engineer' to you, and engaging pointlessly.
Exactly. If this guy really did have an O2 connected phone, he was a
sub-contractor, not an employee of BT OR.
Classic "invisible word" syndrome there. But of course if you wish to
differentiate between the two, it means you must also believe that my
engineer had an O2 phone, something you've been denying for days.
He was either an OR engineer or had an O2 phone. Both cannot be correct
at once. So you tell us which of your two
'facts' was incorrect?
Does depend on your definition of OR engineer. When City Fibre installed my >service they used Kelly Communications as subcontractors but they turned up >in CF branded vans and all the paperwork (well electronic stuff on a phone) >that the customer had to sign was CF branded. Only the sharp eyed would >notice some smaller text on the van mentioning Kelly Communications.
In message <oq470ltvghmmu5gdhfqmm7ffkrevqn99kr@4ax.com>, at 21:55:41 on
Tue, 12 May 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Tue, 12 May 2026 18:08:01 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <nde60ll9jqcclpcjkokqn53m0kmt6qvm70@4ax.com>, at 15:32:11 on
Tue, 12 May 2026, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Tue, 12 May 2026 11:00:22 +0100, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote: >>>>
On 11/05/2026 14:46, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10tsak8$toii$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:22:00 on Mon, 11 >>>>>> May 2026,
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 09/05/2026 16:23, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked
into legacy contracts for some time.
-aGiven that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to >>>>>>>> believe.
On 25/01/2026 16:25, Roland Perry wrote:
Why would a contractor (who is someone I would regard as "an
Openreach person") have different rules?
No idea what point you are trying to make, or are you just trying >>>>>> to incite
"engagement" (known back in the day as 'trolling')
I'm suggesting that Recliner may have a different understanding of the >>>>> term 'Openreach engineer' to you, and engaging pointlessly.
Exactly. If this guy really did have an O2 connected phone, he was a
sub-contractor, not an employee of BT OR.
Classic "invisible word" syndrome there. But of course if you wish to
differentiate between the two, it means you must also believe that my
engineer had an O2 phone, something you've been denying for days.
He was either an OR engineer or had an O2 phone. Both cannot be correct
at once. So you tell us which of your two 'facts' was incorrect?
He was an engineer working for Openreach, and had an O2 phone. So
neither incorrect.
In message <10tutnm$1pddf$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:00:22 on Tue, 12 May
2026, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 11/05/2026 14:46, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <10tsak8$toii$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:22:00 on Mon, 11 May
2026,-a Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> remarked:
On 09/05/2026 16:23, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
The Openreach engineer I talked to was about two years ago, and they >>>>>> were definitely using O2 then. It's quite possible, also, to get locked >>>>>> into legacy contracts for some time.
-aGiven that BT acquired O2 a decade ago, I find that very hard to
believe.
On 25/01/2026 16:25, Roland Perry wrote:
Why would a contractor (who is someone I would regard as "an
Openreach person") have different rules?
-aNo idea what point you are trying to make, or are you just trying to
incite-a "engagement" (known back in the day as 'trolling')
I'm suggesting that Recliner may have a different understanding of the
term 'Openreach engineer' to you, and engaging pointlessly.
It's pretty clear that I mean a bloke in a van with "Openreach" written on the side, who goes round installing mainly fibre connections to premises.
Do you really think Recliner has a different role in mind.
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