• Re: Plagiarism No its even worse ! Much, much worse !

    From Pancho@Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Sat Aug 22 08:46:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    On 8/22/26 08:09, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote in message news:4607361086.6dfb9557@uninhabited.net...

    I really don't think they should have accepted the thesis until the
    title was corrected. Even at a polytechnic.


    I don't know what planet you guys are from, but my talents at grammar
    and apostrophe use make grocers look advanced. In computing and tech
    subjects in general, no one cared.

    GB made a critical point about the allegations of plagiarism in Arday's
    PhD, which was how did it compare to other PhDs. How significant was it. Virtually everyone commits a certain amount of plagiarism, copying
    citations for instance. I mean everyone knows the vague names of
    publications that they cite, but rather than correctly check the exact
    tile of each publication you copy it from a list in another similar
    paper, a paper which will inevitably rely on a huge number of the same
    cites.

    So yes if it was a PhD in secretarial work, or legal assistance I might consider apostrophe usage important, otherwise not so much.

    Actually the worst examples I can think of for poor spelling and
    handwriting are medical doctors.








    In fact it's worse, much much worse than that. While a supervisor
    or supervisors may be mainly concerned with supporting the student
    during the production of their thesis, discussing the topic and
    general structure, suggesting sources, checking progress, general encouragement etc., *the very least* which might be expected in concrete terms, would be that they would read through the thing at least once
    before its final submission, all 401 pages of it; if only for the
    general sense.

    Having not read any of it unguided, I first dipped into the
    conclusion (see below). Having struck "lucky" on the first page, I
    then tried the middle and chose page; 165 totally at random.

    quote:

    Importantly, discussions were initiated by the student teachersrCO concerning the exercise of professional judgement,

    unquote

    page 165

    So trying the next page

    quote:

    However, there was a desire expressed by the traineesrCO to build and scaffold
    on the knowledge they had acquired by revisiting themes and measuring or evaluating where improvements in in understanding and practice had been
    made

    :unquote

    note also "in in"

    page 166

    quote:

    The development of the content and course materials for the workshops was created in collaboration with the student teachersrCO with the traineesrCO leading
    the agenda

    :unquote

    page 167

    quote:

    As eluded to earlier,

    From the beginning of the mentoring intervention, it was collectively
    agreed by the participantsrCO and the researcher

    :unquote

    page 169

    quote:

    Opportunities were provided for this to be undertaken before the workshops with participantsrCO completing reflective pro-formas

    :unquote

    page 170

    quote:

    This process was also facilitated by providing the student teachersrCO

    Where relevant, the student teachersrCO set each other the task

    Importantly, the student teachersrCO were able to track

    :unquote

    p 171

    I went no further than that.

    As to the first page I'd tried, page 334

    quote:

    but should demonstrate an interest in knowing about
    the children they teach, the teaching staff, the non-teaching
    staff and various other communities within the school vehicular.

    :unquote

    page 334

    And no; there don't appear to be any "alternative" meanings.

    Now had his supervisor read through his thesis before submission
    *even the once* he would have picked up these egregious errors,
    and presumably many more; and at the very least suggested doing a
    few "find and replace" operations and other corrections before
    submission

    According to Wiki his supervisor was

    Professor Phil Vickerman who is now Pro-Vice-Chancellor, Student Experience


    https://www.ljmu.ac.uk/about-us/structure/executive-leadership-team/professor-phil-vickerman


    And no it shouldn't be necessary to check; but yes he is in fact white.

    And indeed he does look decidedly dodgy; would you want to buy a used
    car from this man ?

    But then he's possibly a Scouser as well; so that probably explains
    a lot.

    So that regardless of any plagiarism by Arday, its difficult
    to see how this grinning chancer (ULM anyone *) could possibly
    hold onto his job, never mind get promotions ; once anyone had
    actually read his supervisee's work.

    Which, as of now anyway, will henceforth reside for posterity
    on the LJMU server and possibly elsewhere; as being a representative
    sample of the standard of their PhD student's work.

    While in Arday's defence, it might possibly be suggested that
    any pages with redundant apostrophes or similarly egregious errors,
    are unlikely to have been plagiarised, as well. So at least there
    is that, I suppose.


    bb

    * It could have been a lot worse, but Scousers are devils for
    claiming their compo; and I might even have got tracked down, .
    on here. But he definitely looks worth checking, out to me.

    ** While as to little Jonny Ribbens, I can only suggest a few 1
    cwt sacks of egg powder, a concrete mixer, and a paddling pool.
    Even it wasn't Arday's fault. Guilt by association will do,
    in this instance.



    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From billy bookcase@billy@anon.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Sat Aug 22 08:56:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation


    "Pancho" <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote in message news:116bk4t$17gt3$1@dont-email.me...
    On 8/22/26 08:09, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote in message
    news:4607361086.6dfb9557@uninhabited.net...

    I really don't think they should have accepted the thesis until the
    title was corrected. Even at a polytechnic.


    I don't know what planet you guys are from, but my talents at grammar and apostrophe use make grocers look advanced. In computing and tech subjects in general, no one cared.

    Good. So how did you communicate with one another ?

    Grunts ?


    bb


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  • From Pancho@Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Sat Aug 22 09:13:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    On 8/22/26 08:56, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Pancho" <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote in message news:116bk4t$17gt3$1@dont-email.me...
    On 8/22/26 08:09, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote in message
    news:4607361086.6dfb9557@uninhabited.net...

    I really don't think they should have accepted the thesis until the
    title was corrected. Even at a polytechnic.


    I don't know what planet you guys are from, but my talents at grammar and
    apostrophe use make grocers look advanced. In computing and tech subjects in >> general, no one cared.

    Good. So how did you communicate with one another ?

    Grunts ?


    Same way as here, a good message, clear content, can withstand a few
    minor errors.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Hayter@roger@hayter.org to uk.net.news.moderation on Sat Aug 22 08:14:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    On 22 Aug 2026 at 08:46:36 BST, "Pancho" <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote:

    On 8/22/26 08:09, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote in message
    news:4607361086.6dfb9557@uninhabited.net...

    I really don't think they should have accepted the thesis until the
    title was corrected. Even at a polytechnic.


    I don't know what planet you guys are from, but my talents at grammar
    and apostrophe use make grocers look advanced. In computing and tech
    subjects in general, no one cared.

    GB made a critical point about the allegations of plagiarism in Arday's
    PhD, which was how did it compare to other PhDs. How significant was it. Virtually everyone commits a certain amount of plagiarism, copying
    citations for instance. I mean everyone knows the vague names of
    publications that they cite, but rather than correctly check the exact
    tile of each publication you copy it from a list in another similar
    paper, a paper which will inevitably rely on a huge number of the same
    cites.

    So yes if it was a PhD in secretarial work, or legal assistance I might consider apostrophe usage important, otherwise not so much.

    Actually the worst examples I can think of for poor spelling and
    handwriting are medical doctors.





    <font color="#5856d6">snip</font>

    Are there dyslexic computer programmers? If so, is code processed in a different part of the brain from natural language? Or is dyslexia just laziness, as a Victorian pedagogue would have supposed?
    --

    Roger Hayter
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From billy bookcase@billy@anon.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Sat Aug 22 09:15:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation


    "Pancho" <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote in message news:116bk4t$17gt3$1@dont-email.me...

    GB made a critical point about the allegations of plagiarism in Arday's PhD, which was how did it compare to other PhDs.

    From which one might well assume, that GB is maybe another *jumped up electrician*


    The fact that any number of other people may be acting dishonestly,
    can in no way mitigate the dishonesty of any one particular individual


    When the only possible point of comparison here, is with PhDs written
    before the advent of computers; when all such plagiarism was impossible.


    bb




    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From billy bookcase@billy@anon.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Sat Aug 22 09:25:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation


    "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote in message news:8648773458.08497abf@uninhabited.net...
    On 22 Aug 2026 at 08:46:36 BST, "Pancho" <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote:

    On 8/22/26 08:09, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote in message
    news:4607361086.6dfb9557@uninhabited.net...

    I really don't think they should have accepted the thesis until the
    title was corrected. Even at a polytechnic.


    I don't know what planet you guys are from, but my talents at grammar
    and apostrophe use make grocers look advanced. In computing and tech
    subjects in general, no one cared.

    GB made a critical point about the allegations of plagiarism in Arday's
    PhD, which was how did it compare to other PhDs. How significant was it.
    Virtually everyone commits a certain amount of plagiarism, copying
    citations for instance. I mean everyone knows the vague names of
    publications that they cite, but rather than correctly check the exact
    tile of each publication you copy it from a list in another similar
    paper, a paper which will inevitably rely on a huge number of the same
    cites.

    So yes if it was a PhD in secretarial work, or legal assistance I might
    consider apostrophe usage important, otherwise not so much.

    Actually the worst examples I can think of for poor spelling and
    handwriting are medical doctors.





    <font color="#5856d6">snip</font>

    Are there dyslexic computer programmers? If so, is code processed in a different part of the brain from natural language? Or is dyslexia just laziness, as a Victorian pedagogue would have supposed?


    That is very good point ! Even just down to just entering DOS instructions,
    on a what latterly became know as the "command line.

    More especially *before the days of copy and paste*; after which the more copmplicted stuff could be saved; once it eventiually worked at the 25th attempt
    ,
    and used again


    bb




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  • From Roger Hayter@roger@hayter.org to uk.net.news.moderation on Sat Aug 22 08:25:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    On 22 Aug 2026 at 09:15:59 BST, ""billy bookcase"" <billy@anon.com> wrote:


    "Pancho" <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote in message news:116bk4t$17gt3$1@dont-email.me...

    GB made a critical point about the allegations of plagiarism in Arday's PhD, >> which was how did it compare to other PhDs.

    From which one might well assume, that GB is maybe another *jumped up electrician*


    The fact that any number of other people may be acting dishonestly,
    can in no way mitigate the dishonesty of any one particular individual


    When the only possible point of comparison here, is with PhDs written
    before the advent of computers; when all such plagiarism was impossible.


    bb

    You are mistaken. Typing out a long passage largely from memory, even with the odd word, phrase or grammatical difference, and a few mistakes of sentence order, is still plagiarism, and was always possible; and often detected later. --

    Roger Hayter
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Pancho@Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Sat Aug 22 09:26:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    On 8/22/26 09:14, Roger Hayter wrote:
    On 22 Aug 2026 at 08:46:36 BST, "Pancho" <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote:

    On 8/22/26 08:09, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote in message
    news:4607361086.6dfb9557@uninhabited.net...

    I really don't think they should have accepted the thesis until the
    title was corrected. Even at a polytechnic.


    I don't know what planet you guys are from, but my talents at grammar
    and apostrophe use make grocers look advanced. In computing and tech
    subjects in general, no one cared.

    GB made a critical point about the allegations of plagiarism in Arday's
    PhD, which was how did it compare to other PhDs. How significant was it.
    Virtually everyone commits a certain amount of plagiarism, copying
    citations for instance. I mean everyone knows the vague names of
    publications that they cite, but rather than correctly check the exact
    tile of each publication you copy it from a list in another similar
    paper, a paper which will inevitably rely on a huge number of the same
    cites.

    So yes if it was a PhD in secretarial work, or legal assistance I might
    consider apostrophe usage important, otherwise not so much.

    Actually the worst examples I can think of for poor spelling and
    handwriting are medical doctors.





    <font color="#5856d6">snip</font>

    Are there dyslexic computer programmers? If so, is code processed in a different part of the brain from natural language? Or is dyslexia just laziness, as a Victorian pedagogue would have supposed?


    I had a boss who took the view that I made spelling mistakes because I
    didn't care, didn't take enough time checking. As opposed to my view,
    which was that it was better to take the time making the message simple

    He had a stunning memory, and could handle a high level of complexity, I can't. I took the view that his code was poor because he didn't make
    enough effort to simplify it. I think my view was the more conventional amongst computer programmers.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From billy bookcase@billy@anon.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Sat Aug 22 09:42:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation


    "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote in message news:8715584328.97e3a7a3@uninhabited.net...
    On 22 Aug 2026 at 09:15:59 BST, ""billy bookcase"" <billy@anon.com> wrote:


    "Pancho" <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote in message
    news:116bk4t$17gt3$1@dont-email.me...

    GB made a critical point about the allegations of plagiarism in Arday's PhD,
    which was how did it compare to other PhDs.

    From which one might well assume, that GB is maybe another *jumped up
    electrician*


    The fact that any number of other people may be acting dishonestly,
    can in no way mitigate the dishonesty of any one particular individual


    When the only possible point of comparison here, is with PhDs written
    before the advent of computers; when all such plagiarism was impossible.


    bb

    You are mistaken. Typing out a long passage largely from memory, even with the
    odd word, phrase or grammatical difference, and a few mistakes of sentence order, is still plagiarism, and was always possible; and often detected later.

    I was even more mistaken that that !

    As they could simply copy stuff straight out of books.


    bb


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Hayter@roger@hayter.org to uk.net.news.moderation on Sat Aug 22 08:57:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    On 22 Aug 2026 at 09:42:45 BST, ""billy bookcase"" <billy@anon.com> wrote:


    "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote in message news:8715584328.97e3a7a3@uninhabited.net...
    On 22 Aug 2026 at 09:15:59 BST, ""billy bookcase"" <billy@anon.com> wrote: >>

    "Pancho" <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote in message
    news:116bk4t$17gt3$1@dont-email.me...

    GB made a critical point about the allegations of plagiarism in Arday's PhD,
    which was how did it compare to other PhDs.

    From which one might well assume, that GB is maybe another *jumped up
    electrician*


    The fact that any number of other people may be acting dishonestly,
    can in no way mitigate the dishonesty of any one particular individual


    When the only possible point of comparison here, is with PhDs written
    before the advent of computers; when all such plagiarism was impossible. >>>

    bb

    You are mistaken. Typing out a long passage largely from memory, even with the
    odd word, phrase or grammatical difference, and a few mistakes of sentence >> order, is still plagiarism, and was always possible; and often detected later.

    I was even more mistaken that that !

    As they could simply copy stuff straight out of books.


    bb

    That is very slow unless you can touch type. Although come to think of it many people wrote things out by hand and paid someone to type them.
    --

    Roger Hayter
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From billy bookcase@billy@anon.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Sat Aug 22 10:17:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation


    "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote in message news:8904425629.99188489@uninhabited.net...
    On 22 Aug 2026 at 09:42:45 BST, ""billy bookcase"" <billy@anon.com> wrote:


    "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote in message
    news:8715584328.97e3a7a3@uninhabited.net...
    On 22 Aug 2026 at 09:15:59 BST, ""billy bookcase"" <billy@anon.com> wrote: >>>

    "Pancho" <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote in message
    news:116bk4t$17gt3$1@dont-email.me...

    GB made a critical point about the allegations of plagiarism in Arday's >>>>> PhD,
    which was how did it compare to other PhDs.

    From which one might well assume, that GB is maybe another *jumped up
    electrician*


    The fact that any number of other people may be acting dishonestly,
    can in no way mitigate the dishonesty of any one particular individual >>>>

    When the only possible point of comparison here, is with PhDs written
    before the advent of computers; when all such plagiarism was impossible. >>>>

    bb

    You are mistaken. Typing out a long passage largely from memory, even with >>> the
    odd word, phrase or grammatical difference, and a few mistakes of sentence >>> order, is still plagiarism, and was always possible; and often detected
    later.

    I was even more mistaken that that !

    As they could simply copy stuff straight out of books.


    bb

    That is very slow unless you can touch type. Although come to think of it many
    people wrote things out by hand and paid someone to type them.

    You may have been referring to inadvertent or unconscious plagiarism,
    in any case.

    I've been sat in front of this thing, for far too long now.

    The point I was making is that the use of computers makes all plagiarism
    that much easier than previously; by virtue of being able to copy and paste saved material, of whatever provenance

    A provenance which can then be conveniently "forgotten" or "mistaken"
    if it suits.

    This was the point of comparison with before; when such routine *inadvertent* misattribution (save in the case of the memories of exceptional individuals
    as you point out) simply wasn't possible at all.


    bb



    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From billy bookcase@billy@anon.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Sat Aug 22 17:24:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation


    "Pancho" <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote in message news:116bk4t$17gt3$1@dont-email.me...
    On 8/22/26 08:09, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote in message
    news:4607361086.6dfb9557@uninhabited.net...

    I really don't think they should have accepted the thesis until the
    title was corrected. Even at a polytechnic.


    I don't know what planet you guys are from, but my talents at grammar and apostrophe use make grocers look advanced. In computing and tech subjects in general, no one cared.

    It's a planet where state funded Universities are competing for the privilege of charging students u9.5k a year

    Where status wise, its probably not the best of ideas to launch documents
    into the public domain, indicating you apparently award PhD's to semi-literates;
    at least as the term is normally understood


    bb



    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Hayter@roger@hayter.org to uk.net.news.moderation on Sat Aug 22 20:43:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    On 22 Aug 2026 at 17:24:22 BST, ""billy bookcase"" <billy@anon.com> wrote:


    "Pancho" <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote in message news:116bk4t$17gt3$1@dont-email.me...
    On 8/22/26 08:09, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote in message
    news:4607361086.6dfb9557@uninhabited.net...

    I really don't think they should have accepted the thesis until the
    title was corrected. Even at a polytechnic.


    I don't know what planet you guys are from, but my talents at grammar and
    apostrophe use make grocers look advanced. In computing and tech subjects in >> general, no one cared.

    It's a planet where state funded Universities are competing for the privilege of charging students N+u9.5k a year

    Where status wise, its probably not the best of ideas to launch documents into the public domain, indicating you apparently award PhD's to semi-literates;
    at least as the term is normally understood


    bb

    If you are a semi-literate person seeking somewhere to do a PhD in a nebulous subject without to much risk of failing it would seem quite a positive advert. --

    Roger Hayter
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From billy bookcase@billy@anon.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Sun Aug 23 09:26:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation


    "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote in message news:3138121303.24cd71b9@uninhabited.net...
    On 22 Aug 2026 at 17:24:22 BST, ""billy bookcase"" <billy@anon.com> wrote:

    Where status wise, its probably not the best of ideas to launch documents
    into the public domain, indicating you apparently award PhD's to
    semi-literates;
    at least as the term is normally understood

    If you are a semi-literate person seeking somewhere to do a PhD in a nebulous subject without to much risk of failing it would seem quite a positive advert.

    And how exactly do you suppose a University enhances its "status" (see above) in a highly competitive environment, if it's seen to be dishing out PhD's
    to semi-literate students ?

    Once word gets around, who's going to be willing to fork out 9 grand a year, for a worthless piece of paper ?


    bb




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  • From JNugent@JNugent73@mail.com to uk.net.news.moderation on Sun Aug 23 14:44:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.net.news.moderation

    On 23/08/2026 09:26 AM, billy bookcase wrote:

    "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
    "billy bookcase"" <billy@anon.com> wrote:

    Where status wise, its probably not the best of ideas to launch documents >>> into the public domain, indicating you apparently award PhD's to
    semi-literates; at least as the term is normally understood

    If you are a semi-literate person seeking somewhere to do a PhD in a nebulous
    subject without to much risk of failing it would seem quite a positive advert.

    And how exactly do you suppose a University enhances its "status" (see above) in a highly competitive environment, if it's seen to be dishing out PhD's
    to semi-literate students ?

    Once word gets around, who's going to be willing to fork out 9 grand a year, for a worthless piece of paper ?

    That is probably a fair description of a significant number of first
    degree courses right now.

    People still flock to them and are willing to borrow (if not "fork out")
    the requisite u9,000+ per year.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2