In the case in question, the free entry route is by means of a telephone
call to a standard non-premium non-geographic number. So the draw operator >gets no income from your call, although you may still have to pay call costs >if they're not part of your free minutes.
In message <1cpr8lthu511c9vdgn75s35rsvclqd1guj@4ax.com>, at 20:10:15 on
Tue, 25 Aug 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
In the case in question, the free entry route is by means of a telephone >>call to a standard non-premium non-geographic number. So the draw operator >>gets no income from your call, although you may still have to pay call costs >>if they're not part of your free minutes.
On that narrow point, it's entirely possible the draw operator gets some >revenue. How do you think 0845 ISP access worked, back in the day?
On Sun, 30 Aug 2026 10:05:08 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1cpr8lthu511c9vdgn75s35rsvclqd1guj@4ax.com>, at 20:10:15 on >>Tue, 25 Aug 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
In the case in question, the free entry route is by means of a telephone >>>call to a standard non-premium non-geographic number. So the draw operator >>>gets no income from your call, although you may still have to pay call costs >>>if they're not part of your free minutes.
On that narrow point, it's entirely possible the draw operator gets some >>revenue. How do you think 0845 ISP access worked, back in the day?
Revenue sharing is permitted on 0845 numbers. It's not permitted on 03xx >numbers. That's what makes the use of those numbers a legal means of
offering free entry to a prize draw.
In message <e6299l5ase66bud475p2dg3n3gboe2mp7d@4ax.com>, at 20:52:06 on
Sun, 30 Aug 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
On Sun, 30 Aug 2026 10:05:08 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1cpr8lthu511c9vdgn75s35rsvclqd1guj@4ax.com>, at 20:10:15 on
Tue, 25 Aug 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
In the case in question, the free entry route is by means of a telephone >>>> call to a standard non-premium non-geographic number. So the draw operator >>>> gets no income from your call, although you may still have to pay call costs
if they're not part of your free minutes.
On that narrow point, it's entirely possible the draw operator gets some >>> revenue. How do you think 0845 ISP access worked, back in the day?
Revenue sharing is permitted on 0845 numbers. It's not permitted on 03xx
numbers. That's what makes the use of those numbers a legal means of
offering free entry to a prize draw.
That's a bit of a non-sequitur because: "you may still have to pay call
costs if they're not part of your free minutes".
On 31 Aug 2026 at 06:26:36 BST, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <e6299l5ase66bud475p2dg3n3gboe2mp7d@4ax.com>, at 20:52:06 on
Sun, 30 Aug 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
On Sun, 30 Aug 2026 10:05:08 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
In message <1cpr8lthu511c9vdgn75s35rsvclqd1guj@4ax.com>, at 20:10:15 on >>>> Tue, 25 Aug 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
In the case in question, the free entry route is by means of a telephone >>>>> call to a standard non-premium non-geographic number. So the draw operator
gets no income from your call, although you may still have to pay call costs
if they're not part of your free minutes.
On that narrow point, it's entirely possible the draw operator gets some >>>> revenue. How do you think 0845 ISP access worked, back in the day?
Revenue sharing is permitted on 0845 numbers. It's not permitted on 03xx >>> numbers. That's what makes the use of those numbers a legal means of
offering free entry to a prize draw.
That's a bit of a non-sequitur because: "you may still have to pay call
costs if they're not part of your free minutes".
You have to pay for a stamp to send a free entry by letter. You have to pay >for Internet services for a free entry on a website. It is still free of any >payment to the organisation running the draw.
In message <e6299l5ase66bud475p2dg3n3gboe2mp7d@4ax.com>, at 20:52:06 on
Sun, 30 Aug 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
On Sun, 30 Aug 2026 10:05:08 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1cpr8lthu511c9vdgn75s35rsvclqd1guj@4ax.com>, at 20:10:15 on >>>Tue, 25 Aug 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> >>>remarked:
In the case in question, the free entry route is by means of a telephone >>>>call to a standard non-premium non-geographic number. So the draw operator >>>>gets no income from your call, although you may still have to pay call costs
if they're not part of your free minutes.
On that narrow point, it's entirely possible the draw operator gets some >>>revenue. How do you think 0845 ISP access worked, back in the day?
Revenue sharing is permitted on 0845 numbers. It's not permitted on 03xx >>numbers. That's what makes the use of those numbers a legal means of >>offering free entry to a prize draw.
That's a bit of a non-sequitur because: "you may still have to pay call >costs if they're not part of your free minutes".
On Mon, 31 Aug 2026 06:26:36 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <e6299l5ase66bud475p2dg3n3gboe2mp7d@4ax.com>, at 20:52:06 on >>Sun, 30 Aug 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
On Sun, 30 Aug 2026 10:05:08 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>
In message <1cpr8lthu511c9vdgn75s35rsvclqd1guj@4ax.com>, at 20:10:15 on >>>>Tue, 25 Aug 2026, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> >>>>remarked:
In the case in question, the free entry route is by means of a telephone >>>>>call to a standard non-premium non-geographic number. So the draw operator >>>>>gets no income from your call, although you may still have to pay call costs
if they're not part of your free minutes.
On that narrow point, it's entirely possible the draw operator gets some >>>>revenue. How do you think 0845 ISP access worked, back in the day?
Revenue sharing is permitted on 0845 numbers. It's not permitted on 03xx >>>numbers. That's what makes the use of those numbers a legal means of >>>offering free entry to a prize draw.
That's a bit of a non-sequitur because: "you may still have to pay call >>costs if they're not part of your free minutes".
That's irrelevant, though. After all, you still have to use a stamp and an envelope to send in a postal entry.
This is explicitly set out in the relevant legislation:
(1) For the purposes of section 14 and this Schedule a reference to paying
does not include a reference to incurring the expense, at a normal
rate, of-u
(a) sending a letter by ordinary post,
(b) making a telephone call, or
(c) using any other method of communication.
(2) For the purpose of sub-paragraph (1)-u
(a) a "normal rate" is a rate which does not reflect the opportunity
to participate in an arrangement under which a person may win a
prize, and
(b) ordinary post means ordinary first-class or second-class post
(without special arrangements for delivery).
Gambling Act 2005 Schedule 2 section 5.
The preceding sections define payment as essentially any expense incurred in participating. Section 5 then creates an explicit carve-out for post and standard rate phone calls.
Case law has subsequently clarified that the carve-out only applies where
the draw operator receives no revenue from the call (hence excluding revenue-sharing 08545 numbers), based on the courts' interpretation of section 5(2) which states that "normal rate" is a rate which doesn't reflect the opportunity to participate. If the draw operator is receiving revenue from the call, then the call cost does reflect an opportunity to
participate, and hence is not a normal rate, even if it's the same rate as a call which doesn't generate revenue share. Which is possibly a little counter-intuitive, but that's legislation for you.
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