https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-60646285 "Reproductive coercion: 'I wasn't allowed to take my pill'"
and
File on 4 Investigates: Tricked into pregnancy? The Liv Nervo story https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002xdlv
"Liv Nervo is one of the worldrCOs most successful female DJs, who along
with her twin sister, make up NERVO. She was starting a family with a
man she believed was the love of her life - but at six months pregnant,
she discovered he had been living a double life. She says she entered
the relationship under false pretences and wouldn't have consented to
sex had she known the truth about his other relationship."
Of course coercive control is a bad thing, but these stories seem to be
about something else. The podcast also refers to the case of undercover police officers falling in love (or whatever) with protestors.
This is about lying to potential sexual partners, and I don't think the
law has any business here. How about saying you have a high flying job
when you are unemployed, or you drive a Porsche when you have a banger?
This is what marriage is for, and the seventh commandment. And being
told to wait until you have a ring on your finger. (Or, for that matter, mothers advising their holidaying daughters to"keep their hand on their holiday money.")
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 14:35:48 +0100, Max Demian wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-60646285 "Reproductive coercion: 'I
wasn't allowed to take my pill'"
and
File on 4 Investigates: Tricked into pregnancy? The Liv Nervo story
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002xdlv
"Liv Nervo is one of the worldrCOs most successful female DJs, who along
with her twin sister, make up NERVO. She was starting a family with a
man she believed was the love of her life - but at six months pregnant,
she discovered he had been living a double life. She says she entered
the relationship under false pretences and wouldn't have consented to
sex had she known the truth about his other relationship."
Of course coercive control is a bad thing, but these stories seem to be
about something else. The podcast also refers to the case of undercover
police officers falling in love (or whatever) with protestors.
This is about lying to potential sexual partners, and I don't think the
law has any business here. How about saying you have a high flying job
when you are unemployed, or you drive a Porsche when you have a banger?
This is what marriage is for, and the seventh commandment. And being
told to wait until you have a ring on your finger. (Or, for that matter,
mothers advising their holidaying daughters to"keep their hand on their
holiday money.")
Not quite sure why this isn't rape ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-60646285
"Reproductive coercion: 'I wasn't allowed to take my pill'"
and
File on 4 Investigates: Tricked into pregnancy? The Liv Nervo story >https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002xdlv
"Liv Nervo is one of the worldrCOs most successful female DJs, who along >with her twin sister, make up NERVO. She was starting a family with a
man she believed was the love of her life - but at six months pregnant,
she discovered he had been living a double life. She says she entered
the relationship under false pretences and wouldn't have consented to
sex had she known the truth about his other relationship."
Of course coercive control is a bad thing, but these stories seem to be >about something else. The podcast also refers to the case of undercover >police officers falling in love (or whatever) with protestors.
This is about lying to potential sexual partners, and I don't think the
law has any business here. How about saying you have a high flying job
when you are unemployed, or you drive a Porsche when you have a banger?
This is what marriage is for, and the seventh commandment. And being
told to wait until you have a ring on your finger. (Or, for that matter, >mothers advising their holidaying daughters to"keep their hand on their >holiday money.")
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 14:35:48 +0100, Max Demian wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-60646285 "Reproductive coercion: 'I
wasn't allowed to take my pill'"
and
File on 4 Investigates: Tricked into pregnancy? The Liv Nervo story
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002xdlv
"Liv Nervo is one of the worldrCOs most successful female DJs, who along
with her twin sister, make up NERVO. She was starting a family with a
man she believed was the love of her life - but at six months pregnant,
she discovered he had been living a double life. She says she entered
the relationship under false pretences and wouldn't have consented to
sex had she known the truth about his other relationship."
Of course coercive control is a bad thing, but these stories seem to be
about something else. The podcast also refers to the case of undercover
police officers falling in love (or whatever) with protestors.
This is about lying to potential sexual partners, and I don't think the
law has any business here. How about saying you have a high flying job
when you are unemployed, or you drive a Porsche when you have a banger?
This is what marriage is for, and the seventh commandment. And being
told to wait until you have a ring on your finger. (Or, for that matter,
mothers advising their holidaying daughters to"keep their hand on their
holiday money.")
Not quite sure why this isn't rape ?
On 10 Jun 2026 at 14:43:09 BST, "Jethro" <jethro_UK@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 14:35:48 +0100, Max Demian wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-60646285 "Reproductive coercion: 'I
wasn't allowed to take my pill'"
and
File on 4 Investigates: Tricked into pregnancy? The Liv Nervo story
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002xdlv
"Liv Nervo is one of the worldrCOs most successful female DJs, who along >>> with her twin sister, make up NERVO. She was starting a family with a
man she believed was the love of her life - but at six months pregnant,
she discovered he had been living a double life. She says she entered
the relationship under false pretences and wouldn't have consented to
sex had she known the truth about his other relationship."
Of course coercive control is a bad thing, but these stories seem to be
about something else. The podcast also refers to the case of undercover
police officers falling in love (or whatever) with protestors.
This is about lying to potential sexual partners, and I don't think the
law has any business here. How about saying you have a high flying job
when you are unemployed, or you drive a Porsche when you have a banger?
This is what marriage is for, and the seventh commandment. And being
told to wait until you have a ring on your finger. (Or, for that matter, >>> mothers advising their holidaying daughters to"keep their hand on their
holiday money.")
Not quite sure why this isn't rape ?
It is an interesting question as to when gaining consent to sex by false pretences is rape. I doubt this is, while lying about condom use, one's sex or
HIV status is rape. Is this purely case law and is there any theoretical guidance?
On 11/06/2026 11:42, Max Demian wrote:
On 11/06/2026 00:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 10 Jun 2026 at 17:03:07 BST, "Martin Harran" <martinharran@gmail.com> >>> wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 14:35:48 +0100, Max Demian
<max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-60646285
"Reproductive coercion: 'I wasn't allowed to take my pill'"
and
File on 4 Investigates: Tricked into pregnancy? The Liv Nervo story
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002xdlv
"Liv Nervo is one of the worldrCOs most successful female DJs, who along >>>>> with her twin sister, make up NERVO. She was starting a family with a >>>>> man she believed was the love of her life - but at six months
pregnant,
she discovered he had been living a double life. She says she entered >>>>> the relationship under false pretences and wouldn't have consented to >>>>> sex had she known the truth about his other relationship."
Of course coercive control is a bad thing, but these stories seem
to be
about something else. The podcast also refers to the case of
undercover
police officers falling in love (or whatever) with protestors.
This is about lying to potential sexual partners, and I don't think >>>>> the
law has any business here. How about saying you have a high flying job >>>>> when you are unemployed, or you drive a Porsche when you have a
banger?
This is what marriage is for, and the seventh commandment. And being >>>>> told to wait until you have a ring on your finger. (Or, for that
matter,
mothers advising their holidaying daughters to"keep their hand on
their
holiday money.")
Where do you draw the line? Do you think women being scammed out of
their life savings through Romance Fraud deserve no sympathy or
recourse because what they did was their own fault?
Obviously it is still fraud and maybe other coercive acts. But if the
fraudster got as far as "consensual" sex with the victim it probably
wasn't
rape just because of the fraud.-a However, consider the case of
undercover
police having sexual relations with victims being investigated. I
believe none
of these officers have been charged with rape, but some have been
sued for
common law battery with the relevant act being sexual relations by
deception.
-a As far as I know (which may not be far) such civil cases have been
settled
before trial, which suggests the police at least were unsure if there
had been
valid consent according to civil law.
I don't see how lying about whether you are an undercover police
officer is any different from the employment and car examples I
indicated above. Just received more publicity.
I think the real betrayal is for an undercover officer to set up home
with a woman, have children with her, stay with her while she invests
all her hopes and ambitions in that relationship, while all the time the officer has a "real" wife elsewhere or simply has no intention of
remaining in the relationship with the victim.
I suppose whenever people get divorced after a long marriage there is a feeling of "I've wasted the best years of my life" but there is a big difference if one of the people in the relationship is living a lie and never intended to stay.
Obviously it is still fraud and maybe other coercive acts. But if the || |
fraudster got as far as "consensual" sex with the victim it probably wasn't |
rape just because of the fraud. However, consider the case of undercover |
police having sexual relations with victims being investigated. I believe none|
of these officers have been charged with rape, but some have been sued for |
common law battery with the relevant act being sexual relations by deception. |
As far as I know (which may not be far) such civil cases have been settled |
before trial, which suggests the police at least were unsure if there had been|
valid consent according to civil law... |
On 11/06/2026 11:42, Max Demian wrote:
On 11/06/2026 00:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 10 Jun 2026 at 17:03:07 BST, "Martin Harran"
<martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 14:35:48 +0100, Max Demian
<max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-60646285 "Reproductive
coercion: 'I wasn't allowed to take my pill'"
and
File on 4 Investigates: Tricked into pregnancy? The Liv Nervo
story https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002xdlv
"Liv Nervo is one of the world's most successful female DJs,
who along with her twin sister, make up NERVO. She was starting a
family with a man she believed was the love of her life - but at
six months pregnant, she discovered he had been living a double
life. She says she entered the relationship under false pretences
and wouldn't have consented to sex had she known the truth about
his other relationship."
Of course coercive control is a bad thing, but these stories seem
to be about something else. The podcast also refers to the case
of undercover police officers falling in love (or whatever) with
protestors.
This is about lying to potential sexual partners, and I don't
think the law has any business here. How about saying you have a
high flying job when you are unemployed, or you drive a Porsche
when you have a banger?
This is what marriage is for, and the seventh commandment. And
being told to wait until you have a ring on your finger. (Or, for
that matter, mothers advising their holidaying daughters to"keep
their hand on their holiday money.")
Where do you draw the line? Do you think women being scammed out
of their life savings through Romance Fraud deserve no sympathy or
recourse because what they did was their own fault?
Obviously it is still fraud and maybe other coercive acts. But if
the fraudster got as far as "consensual" sex with the victim it
probably wasn't rape just because of the fraud.a However, consider
the case of undercover police having sexual relations with victims
being investigated. I believe none of these officers have been
charged with rape, but some have been sued for common law battery
with relevant act being sexual relations by deception. As far as I
know (which may not be far) such civil cases have been settled
before trial, which suggests the police at least were unsure if
there had been valid consent according to civil law.
I don't see how lying about whether you are an undercover police
officer is any different from the employment and car examples I
indicated above. Just received more publicity.
I think the real betrayal is for an undercover officer to set up home
with a woman, have children with her, stay with her while she invests
all her hopes and ambitions in that relationship, while all the time
the officer has a "real" wife elsewhere or simply has no intention of remaining in the relationship with the victim.
I suppose whenever people get divorced after a long marriage there is
a feeling of "I've wasted the best years of my life" but there is a
big difference if one of the people in the relationship is living a
lie and never intended to stay.
On 11/06/2026 12:10, The Todal wrote:
On 11/06/2026 11:42, Max Demian wrote:
On 11/06/2026 00:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 10 Jun 2026 at 17:03:07 BST, "Martin Harran"
<martinharran@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 14:35:48 +0100, Max Demian
<max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-60646285
"Reproductive coercion: 'I wasn't allowed to take my pill'"
and
File on 4 Investigates: Tricked into pregnancy? The Liv Nervo story >>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002xdlv
"Liv Nervo is one of the worldrCOs most successful female DJs, who >>>>>> along
with her twin sister, make up NERVO. She was starting a family with a >>>>>> man she believed was the love of her life - but at six months
pregnant,
she discovered he had been living a double life. She says she entered >>>>>> the relationship under false pretences and wouldn't have consented to >>>>>> sex had she known the truth about his other relationship."
Of course coercive control is a bad thing, but these stories seem >>>>>> to be
about something else. The podcast also refers to the case of
undercover
police officers falling in love (or whatever) with protestors.
This is about lying to potential sexual partners, and I don't
think the
law has any business here. How about saying you have a high flying >>>>>> job
when you are unemployed, or you drive a Porsche when you have a
banger?
This is what marriage is for, and the seventh commandment. And being >>>>>> told to wait until you have a ring on your finger. (Or, for that
matter,
mothers advising their holidaying daughters to"keep their hand on >>>>>> their
holiday money.")
Where do you draw the line? Do you think women being scammed out of
their life savings through Romance Fraud deserve no sympathy or
recourse because what they did was their own fault?
Obviously it is still fraud and maybe other coercive acts. But if the
fraudster got as far as "consensual" sex with the victim it probably
wasn't
rape just because of the fraud.-a However, consider the case of
undercover
police having sexual relations with victims being investigated. I
believe none
of these officers have been charged with rape, but some have been
sued for
common law battery with the relevant act being sexual relations by
deception.
-a As far as I know (which may not be far) such civil cases have been >>>> settled
before trial, which suggests the police at least were unsure if
there had been
valid consent according to civil law.
I don't see how lying about whether you are an undercover police
officer is any different from the employment and car examples I
indicated above. Just received more publicity.
I think the real betrayal is for an undercover officer to set up home
with a woman, have children with her, stay with her while she invests
all her hopes and ambitions in that relationship, while all the time
the officer has a "real" wife elsewhere or simply has no intention of
remaining in the relationship with the victim.
I suppose whenever people get divorced after a long marriage there is
a feeling of "I've wasted the best years of my life" but there is a
big difference if one of the people in the relationship is living a
lie and never intended to stay.
Not very nice, but I don't think the criminal law should get involved. Perhaps civil law, if there is financial loss.
On 11/06/2026 17:20, Max Demian wrote:
On 11/06/2026 12:10, The Todal wrote:
On 11/06/2026 11:42, Max Demian wrote:
On 11/06/2026 00:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 10 Jun 2026 at 17:03:07 BST, "Martin Harran"
<martinharran@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 14:35:48 +0100, Max Demian
<max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-60646285
"Reproductive coercion: 'I wasn't allowed to take my pill'"
and
File on 4 Investigates: Tricked into pregnancy? The Liv Nervo story >>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002xdlv
"Liv Nervo is one of the worldrCOs most successful female DJs, who >>>>>>> along
with her twin sister, make up NERVO. She was starting a family with a >>>>>>> man she believed was the love of her life - but at six months
pregnant,
she discovered he had been living a double life. She says she entered >>>>>>> the relationship under false pretences and wouldn't have consented to >>>>>>> sex had she known the truth about his other relationship."
Of course coercive control is a bad thing, but these stories seem >>>>>>> to be
about something else. The podcast also refers to the case of
undercover
police officers falling in love (or whatever) with protestors.
This is about lying to potential sexual partners, and I don't
think the
law has any business here. How about saying you have a high flying >>>>>>> job
when you are unemployed, or you drive a Porsche when you have a
banger?
This is what marriage is for, and the seventh commandment. And being >>>>>>> told to wait until you have a ring on your finger. (Or, for that >>>>>>> matter,
mothers advising their holidaying daughters to"keep their hand on >>>>>>> their
holiday money.")
Where do you draw the line? Do you think women being scammed out of >>>>>> their life savings through Romance Fraud deserve no sympathy or
recourse because what they did was their own fault?
Obviously it is still fraud and maybe other coercive acts. But if the >>>>> fraudster got as far as "consensual" sex with the victim it probably >>>>> wasn't
rape just because of the fraud. However, consider the case of
undercover
police having sexual relations with victims being investigated. I
believe none
of these officers have been charged with rape, but some have been
sued for
common law battery with the relevant act being sexual relations by
deception.
As far as I know (which may not be far) such civil cases have been >>>>> settled
before trial, which suggests the police at least were unsure if
there had been
valid consent according to civil law.
I don't see how lying about whether you are an undercover police
officer is any different from the employment and car examples I
indicated above. Just received more publicity.
I think the real betrayal is for an undercover officer to set up home
with a woman, have children with her, stay with her while she invests
all her hopes and ambitions in that relationship, while all the time
the officer has a "real" wife elsewhere or simply has no intention of
remaining in the relationship with the victim.
I suppose whenever people get divorced after a long marriage there is
a feeling of "I've wasted the best years of my life" but there is a
big difference if one of the people in the relationship is living a
lie and never intended to stay.
Not very nice, but I don't think the criminal law should get involved.
Perhaps civil law, if there is financial loss.
But I think it does make a huge difference if the police officer was instructed or encouraged to form a relationship with the woman whom he
is supposed to be monitoring, with her friends, to see if they are
plotting any criminal activity. It amounts to being instructed by your
boss to have sex with a suspect in a criminal case. If the officers were acting on instructions I suppose they can't be prosecuted, but it should
be a resigning matter for their commanders.
Is this so different to Asian (or other) women marrying wealthy old Westerners?
On 10 Jun 2026 at 17:03:07 BST, "Martin Harran" <martinharran@gmail.com> >wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 14:35:48 +0100, Max Demian
<max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-60646285
"Reproductive coercion: 'I wasn't allowed to take my pill'"
and
File on 4 Investigates: Tricked into pregnancy? The Liv Nervo story
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002xdlv
"Liv Nervo is one of the worldAs most successful female DJs, who along
with her twin sister, make up NERVO. She was starting a family with a
man she believed was the love of her life - but at six months pregnant,
she discovered he had been living a double life. She says she entered
the relationship under false pretences and wouldn't have consented to
sex had she known the truth about his other relationship."
Of course coercive control is a bad thing, but these stories seem to be
about something else. The podcast also refers to the case of undercover
police officers falling in love (or whatever) with protestors.
This is about lying to potential sexual partners, and I don't think the
law has any business here. How about saying you have a high flying job
when you are unemployed, or you drive a Porsche when you have a banger?
This is what marriage is for, and the seventh commandment. And being
told to wait until you have a ring on your finger. (Or, for that matter, >>> mothers advising their holidaying daughters to"keep their hand on their
holiday money.")
Where do you draw the line? Do you think women being scammed out of
their life savings through Romance Fraud deserve no sympathy or
recourse because what they did was their own fault?
Obviously it is still fraud and maybe other coercive acts. But if the >fraudster got as far as "consensual" sex with the victim it probably wasn't >rape just because of the fraud.
On 10 Jun 2026 at 21:07:10 BST, "Nick Finnigan" <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 10/06/2026 15:01, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 10 Jun 2026 at 14:43:09 BST, "Jethro" <jethro_UK@hotmailbin.com> wrote: >>>
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 14:35:48 +0100, Max Demian wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-60646285 "Reproductive coercion: 'I >>>>> wasn't allowed to take my pill'"
and
File on 4 Investigates: Tricked into pregnancy? The Liv Nervo story
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002xdlv
"Liv Nervo is one of the worldrCOs most successful female DJs, who along >>>>> with her twin sister, make up NERVO. She was starting a family with a >>>>> man she believed was the love of her life - but at six months pregnant, >>>>> she discovered he had been living a double life. She says she entered >>>>> the relationship under false pretences and wouldn't have consented to >>>>> sex had she known the truth about his other relationship."
Of course coercive control is a bad thing, but these stories seem to be >>>>> about something else. The podcast also refers to the case of undercover >>>>> police officers falling in love (or whatever) with protestors.
This is about lying to potential sexual partners, and I don't think the >>>>> law has any business here. How about saying you have a high flying job >>>>> when you are unemployed, or you drive a Porsche when you have a banger? >>>>>
This is what marriage is for, and the seventh commandment. And being >>>>> told to wait until you have a ring on your finger. (Or, for that matter, >>>>> mothers advising their holidaying daughters to"keep their hand on their >>>>> holiday money.")
Not quite sure why this isn't rape ?
It is an interesting question as to when gaining consent to sex by false >>> pretences is rape. I doubt this is, while lying about condom use, one's sex or
HIV status is rape. Is this purely case law and is there any theoretical >>> guidance?
"deception which is closely connected with 'the nature or purpose of the act'"
https://www.cps.gov.uk/prosecution-guidance/rape-and-sexual-offences-chapter-6-consent
Thanks. That certainly excludes OP case. But new situations could clearly arise that would need testing in court.
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