Although I have every sympathy for the desire of the victims' families
for Law to face justice in the UK, I can't help thinking that he will
likely spend longer in jail in Canada than he would if he were jailed
in the UK, with our early-release rules.
On 30 May 2026 at 10:23:26 BST, "Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
Although I have every sympathy for the desire of the victims' families
for Law to face justice in the UK, I can't help thinking that he will
likely spend longer in jail in Canada than he would if he were jailed
in the UK, with our early-release rules.
What makes you think that our early release rules are more generous than those
in Canada? A quick google suggests they are not.
In any case, if he were prosecuted in this country it is likely that this would only be possible after release in Canada, and his sentence here would be
additional.
On 30/05/2026 11:15, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 30 May 2026 at 10:23:26 BST, "Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
Although I have every sympathy for the desire of the victims' families
for Law to face justice in the UK, I can't help thinking that he will
likely spend longer in jail in Canada than he would if he were jailed
in the UK, with our early-release rules.
What makes you think that our early release rules are more generous
than those in Canada? A quick google suggests they are not.
In any case, if he were prosecuted in this country it is likely that
this would only be possible after release in Canada, and his sentence
here would be additional.
I don't see that he has done anything wrong, actually. In this country
it is no longer a crime to commit suicide so I don't see why anyone assisting the process should be deemed to have done something wrong.
Especially because a law to make assisted suicide legal in specific circumstances was passed by the House of Commons but has failed to
become law only because of obstruction by the non-elected House of Lords.
On 30/05/2026 11:15, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 30 May 2026 at 10:23:26 BST, "Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
Although I have every sympathy for the desire of the victims' families
for Law to face justice in the UK, I can't help thinking that he will
likely spend longer in jail in Canada than he would if he were jailed
in the UK, with our early-release rules.
What makes you think that our early release rules are more generous
than those
in Canada? A quick google suggests they are not.
In any case, if he were prosecuted in this country it is likely that this
would only be possible after release in Canada, and his sentence here
would be
additional.
I don't see that he has done anything wrong, actually.-a In this country
it is no longer a crime to commit suicide so I don't see why anyone assisting the process should be deemed to have done something wrong.
Especially because a law to make assisted suicide legal in specific circumstances was passed by the House of Commons but has failed to
become law only because of obstruction by the non-elected House of Lords.
I'm hoping to live for quite a number more years, but if it turns out at some point that I'm about to die from some painful disease and that the assisted suicide law still hasn't been passed (and travel to Switzerland
is impracticable for some reason) then I'll seek out someone like this
to provide me with the necessary drugs.
On 30/05/2026 12:22, Clive Page wrote:
On 30/05/2026 11:15, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 30 May 2026 at 10:23:26 BST, "Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
Although I have every sympathy for the desire of the victims' families >>>> for Law to face justice in the UK, I can't help thinking that he will
likely spend longer in jail in Canada than he would if he were jailed
in the UK, with our early-release rules.
What makes you think that our early release rules are more generous
than those
in Canada? A quick google suggests they are not.
In any case, if he were prosecuted in this country it is likely that this >>> would only be possible after release in Canada, and his sentence here
would be
additional.
I don't see that he has done anything wrong, actually.-a In this country
it is no longer a crime to commit suicide so I don't see why anyone
assisting the process should be deemed to have done something wrong.
Especially because a law to make assisted suicide legal in specific
circumstances was passed by the House of Commons but has failed to
become law only because of obstruction by the non-elected House of Lords.
I'm hoping to live for quite a number more years, but if it turns out at
some point that I'm about to die from some painful disease and that the
assisted suicide law still hasn't been passed (and travel to Switzerland
is impracticable for some reason) then I'll seek out someone like this
to provide me with the necessary drugs.
Actually, all you need is the name of the drug that was supplied, and
our broadcasters and newspapers choose to keep that a secret even though many people know, and are aware that it has certain culinary uses that
make it seem innocuous to supply in the post.
So there is a separate legal and civil liberties issue: is it right for
the government and the media to keep this a secret and might it save
more lives if a loving family member were to see a packet of this stuff
in their child's bedroom and realise that it is actually a likely
suicide method?
A friend of my son's killed himself with this stuff. And I have seen
other similar accounts in the newspapers: young people under the
influence of drink or recreational drugs,feeling that life is hopeless, consume this stuff that they ordered weeks or months earlier, then
realise that it was a terrible mistake and tell their parents and/or
ring 999. But it is impossible for the medics to save them.
On 30/05/2026 11:15, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 30 May 2026 at 10:23:26 BST, "Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
Although I have every sympathy for the desire of the victims' families
for Law to face justice in the UK, I can't help thinking that he will
likely spend longer in jail in Canada than he would if he were jailed
in the UK, with our early-release rules.
What makes you think that our early release rules are more generous than those
in Canada? A quick google suggests they are not.
In any case, if he were prosecuted in this country it is likely that this
would only be possible after release in Canada, and his sentence here would be
additional.
I don't see that he has done anything wrong, actually. In this country
it is no longer a crime to commit suicide so I don't see why anyone assisting the process should be deemed to have done something wrong.
Especially because a law to make assisted suicide legal in specific circumstances was passed by the House of Commons but has failed to
become law only because of obstruction by the non-elected House of Lords.
I'm hoping to live for quite a number more years, but if it turns out at some point that I'm about to die from some painful disease and that the assisted suicide law still hasn't been passed (and travel to Switzerland
is impracticable for some reason) then I'll seek out someone like this
to provide me with the necessary drugs.
On 2026-05-30, The Todal wrote:
On 30/05/2026 12:22, Clive Page wrote:
On 30/05/2026 11:15, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 30 May 2026 at 10:23:26 BST, "Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote: >>>>
Although I have every sympathy for the desire of the victims' families >>>>> for Law to face justice in the UK, I can't help thinking that he will >>>>> likely spend longer in jail in Canada than he would if he were jailed >>>>> in the UK, with our early-release rules.
What makes you think that our early release rules are more generous
than those
in Canada? A quick google suggests they are not.
In any case, if he were prosecuted in this country it is likely that this >>>> would only be possible after release in Canada, and his sentence here
would be
additional.
I don't see that he has done anything wrong, actually. In this country
it is no longer a crime to commit suicide so I don't see why anyone
assisting the process should be deemed to have done something wrong.
Especially because a law to make assisted suicide legal in specific
circumstances was passed by the House of Commons but has failed to
become law only because of obstruction by the non-elected House of Lords. >>>
I'm hoping to live for quite a number more years, but if it turns out at >>> some point that I'm about to die from some painful disease and that the
assisted suicide law still hasn't been passed (and travel to Switzerland >>> is impracticable for some reason) then I'll seek out someone like this
to provide me with the necessary drugs.
Actually, all you need is the name of the drug that was supplied, and
our broadcasters and newspapers choose to keep that a secret even though
many people know, and are aware that it has certain culinary uses that
make it seem innocuous to supply in the post.
So there is a separate legal and civil liberties issue: is it right for
the government and the media to keep this a secret and might it save
more lives if a loving family member were to see a packet of this stuff
in their child's bedroom and realise that it is actually a likely
suicide method?
It's named in the Wikipedia article. In any case, there are plenty of potentially lethal substances around in the world, including legal
decorative garden plants.
On 1 Jun 2026 at 18:58:52 BST, "Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote:...
On 2026-05-30, The Todal wrote:
So there is a separate legal and civil liberties issue: is it right for
the government and the media to keep this a secret and might it save
more lives if a loving family member were to see a packet of this stuff
in their child's bedroom and realise that it is actually a likely
suicide method?
It's named in the Wikipedia article. In any case, there are plenty of
potentially lethal substances around in the world, including legal
decorative garden plants.
The problem with herbal medicines generally is that they are pretty unreliable. Unless they are assayed for an active ingredient, in which case they are not herbal medicines, just poorly purified drugs.
On 2026-06-01, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 1 Jun 2026 at 18:58:52 BST, "Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote: >>> On 2026-05-30, The Todal wrote:...
So there is a separate legal and civil liberties issue: is it right for >>>> the government and the media to keep this a secret and might it save
more lives if a loving family member were to see a packet of this stuff >>>> in their child's bedroom and realise that it is actually a likely
suicide method?
It's named in the Wikipedia article. In any case, there are plenty of
potentially lethal substances around in the world, including legal
decorative garden plants.
The problem with herbal medicines generally is that they are pretty
unreliable. Unless they are assayed for an active ingredient, in which case >> they are not herbal medicines, just poorly purified drugs.
That's definitely true if you're aiming for a specific dose, but for
the ones I'm thinking of (Digitalis purpurea or Aconitum spp.) it
would be easy to swallow enough to be sure of a lethal
effect. (Wikipedia says 1 g of Aconitum plant material is sufficient.)
On 3 Jun 2026 at 15:53:36 BST, "Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote:
On 2026-06-01, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 1 Jun 2026 at 18:58:52 BST, "Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote: >>>> On 2026-05-30, The Todal wrote:...
So there is a separate legal and civil liberties issue: is it right for >>>>> the government and the media to keep this a secret and might it save >>>>> more lives if a loving family member were to see a packet of this stuff >>>>> in their child's bedroom and realise that it is actually a likely
suicide method?
It's named in the Wikipedia article. In any case, there are plenty of
potentially lethal substances around in the world, including legal
decorative garden plants.
The problem with herbal medicines generally is that they are pretty
unreliable. Unless they are assayed for an active ingredient, in which case >>> they are not herbal medicines, just poorly purified drugs.
That's definitely true if you're aiming for a specific dose, but for
the ones I'm thinking of (Digitalis purpurea or Aconitum spp.) it
would be easy to swallow enough to be sure of a lethal
effect. (Wikipedia says 1 g of Aconitum plant material is sufficient.)
You're entitled to believe that if you wish: I don't.
On 03/06/2026 16:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 3 Jun 2026 at 15:53:36 BST, "Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote:
On 2026-06-01, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 1 Jun 2026 at 18:58:52 BST, "Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com>...
wrote:
On 2026-05-30, The Todal wrote:
So there is a separate legal and civil liberties issue: is it
right for
the government and the media to keep this a secret and might it save >>>>>> more lives if a loving family member were to see a packet of this >>>>>> stuff
in their child's bedroom and realise that it is actually a likely
suicide method?
It's named in the Wikipedia article. In any case, there are plenty of >>>>> potentially lethal substances around in the world, including legal
decorative garden plants.
The problem with herbal medicines generally is that they are pretty
unreliable. Unless they are assayed for an active ingredient, in
which case
they are not herbal medicines, just poorly purified drugs.
That's definitely true if you're aiming for a specific dose, but for
the ones I'm thinking of (Digitalis purpurea or Aconitum spp.) it
would be easy to swallow enough to be sure of a lethal
effect. (Wikipedia says 1 g of Aconitum plant material is sufficient.)
You're entitled to believe that if you wish:-a I don't.
What don't you wish to believe? That herbal medicines are unreliable or
that digoxin or aconitine aren't lethal in small does?
Herbal medicines prepared and supplied in the UK are usually carefully controlled. I would be concerned about those imported directly from the
Asia and sold in ethnic supermarkets.
I can tell you from experience that it is possible to detect the
smallest amount of aconitine. As part of a pharmacognosy practical
during a pharmacy degree we were asked touch the tip of our tongue on a small piece of aconite root we had been given. Within seconds the tip of
my tongue was tingling, and it lasted a few minutes (that was 60 years
ago; I doubt health'n'safety would allow it these days). I do wonder how anyone can eat aconitum leaves or root without getting a very strange sensation in their mouth, and becoming suspicious of what they were eating.
On 03/06/2026 18:45, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 03/06/2026 16:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 3 Jun 2026 at 15:53:36 BST, "Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote: >>>> That's definitely true if you're aiming for a specific dose, but for
the ones I'm thinking of (Digitalis purpurea or Aconitum spp.) it
would be easy to swallow enough to be sure of a lethal
effect. (Wikipedia says 1 g of Aconitum plant material is sufficient.)
You're entitled to believe that if you wish:-a I don't.
What don't you wish to believe? That herbal medicines are unreliable or
that digoxin or aconitine aren't lethal in small does?
Herbal medicines prepared and supplied in the UK are usually carefully
controlled. I would be concerned about those imported directly from the
Asia and sold in ethnic supermarkets.
I can tell you from experience that it is possible to detect the
smallest amount of aconitine. As part of a pharmacognosy practical
during a pharmacy degree we were asked touch the tip of our tongue on a
small piece of aconite root we had been given. Within seconds the tip of
my tongue was tingling, and it lasted a few minutes (that was 60 years
ago; I doubt health'n'safety would allow it these days). I do wonder how
anyone can eat aconitum leaves or root without getting a very strange
sensation in their mouth, and becoming suspicious of what they were eating.
Aconite is one of the most popular homoeopathic remedies, and the way homoeopathic pharmacies prepare their remedies is to triturate the
active substance and repeatedly dilute it so that, allegedly, this
releases the potency. Conventional science says that the active
substance (eg aconite) would not be detectable after this dilution
process. Are you able to confirm this, or refute it?
On 03/06/2026 18:45, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 03/06/2026 16:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 3 Jun 2026 at 15:53:36 BST, "Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote: >>>
On 2026-06-01, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 1 Jun 2026 at 18:58:52 BST, "Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com>...
wrote:
On 2026-05-30, The Todal wrote:
So there is a separate legal and civil liberties issue: is it
right for
the government and the media to keep this a secret and might it save >>>>>>> more lives if a loving family member were to see a packet of this >>>>>>> stuff
in their child's bedroom and realise that it is actually a likely >>>>>>> suicide method?
It's named in the Wikipedia article. In any case, there are plenty of >>>>>> potentially lethal substances around in the world, including legal >>>>>> decorative garden plants.
The problem with herbal medicines generally is that they are pretty
unreliable. Unless they are assayed for an active ingredient, in
which case
they are not herbal medicines, just poorly purified drugs.
That's definitely true if you're aiming for a specific dose, but for
the ones I'm thinking of (Digitalis purpurea or Aconitum spp.) it
would be easy to swallow enough to be sure of a lethal
effect. (Wikipedia says 1 g of Aconitum plant material is sufficient.)
You're entitled to believe that if you wish:-a I don't.
What don't you wish to believe? That herbal medicines are unreliable or
that digoxin or aconitine aren't lethal in small does?
Herbal medicines prepared and supplied in the UK are usually carefully
controlled. I would be concerned about those imported directly from the
Asia and sold in ethnic supermarkets.
I can tell you from experience that it is possible to detect the
smallest amount of aconitine. As part of a pharmacognosy practical
during a pharmacy degree we were asked touch the tip of our tongue on a
small piece of aconite root we had been given. Within seconds the tip of
my tongue was tingling, and it lasted a few minutes (that was 60 years
ago; I doubt health'n'safety would allow it these days). I do wonder how
anyone can eat aconitum leaves or root without getting a very strange
sensation in their mouth, and becoming suspicious of what they were eating. >>
Aconite is one of the most popular homoeopathic remedies, and the way homoeopathic pharmacies prepare their remedies is to triturate the
active substance and repeatedly dilute it so that, allegedly, this
releases the potency. Conventional science says that the active
substance (eg aconite) would not be detectable after this dilution
process. Are you able to confirm this, or refute it?
Of course, those who believe in homoeopathy firmly believe that they do notice a benefit from these pilules - others might say it's the placebo effect. Many years ago I gave a diabetic friend some homoeopathic
phloridzin. He claimed that it messed up his blood sugar and he would
never want to take it again.
On 03/06/2026 22:04, The Todal wrote:
On 03/06/2026 18:45, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 03/06/2026 16:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 3 Jun 2026 at 15:53:36 BST, "Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote: >>>>
On 2026-06-01, Roger Hayter wrote:You're entitled to believe that if you wish: I don't.
On 1 Jun 2026 at 18:58:52 BST, "Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com> >>>>>> wrote:...
On 2026-05-30, The Todal wrote:
So there is a separate legal and civil liberties issue: is it
right for
the government and the media to keep this a secret and might it save >>>>>>>> more lives if a loving family member were to see a packet of this >>>>>>>> stuff
in their child's bedroom and realise that it is actually a likely >>>>>>>> suicide method?
It's named in the Wikipedia article. In any case, there are plenty of >>>>>>> potentially lethal substances around in the world, including legal >>>>>>> decorative garden plants.
The problem with herbal medicines generally is that they are pretty >>>>>> unreliable. Unless they are assayed for an active ingredient, in
which case
they are not herbal medicines, just poorly purified drugs.
That's definitely true if you're aiming for a specific dose, but for >>>>> the ones I'm thinking of (Digitalis purpurea or Aconitum spp.) it
would be easy to swallow enough to be sure of a lethal
effect. (Wikipedia says 1 g of Aconitum plant material is sufficient.) >>>>
What don't you wish to believe? That herbal medicines are unreliable or
that digoxin or aconitine aren't lethal in small does?
Herbal medicines prepared and supplied in the UK are usually carefully
controlled. I would be concerned about those imported directly from the
Asia and sold in ethnic supermarkets.
I can tell you from experience that it is possible to detect the
smallest amount of aconitine. As part of a pharmacognosy practical
during a pharmacy degree we were asked touch the tip of our tongue on a
small piece of aconite root we had been given. Within seconds the tip of >>> my tongue was tingling, and it lasted a few minutes (that was 60 years
ago; I doubt health'n'safety would allow it these days). I do wonder how >>> anyone can eat aconitum leaves or root without getting a very strange
sensation in their mouth, and becoming suspicious of what they were eating. >>>
Aconite is one of the most popular homoeopathic remedies, and the way
homoeopathic pharmacies prepare their remedies is to triturate the
active substance and repeatedly dilute it so that, allegedly, this
releases the potency. Conventional science says that the active
substance (eg aconite) would not be detectable after this dilution
process. Are you able to confirm this, or refute it?
The simple answer is to confirm it. However, depending on the level of dilution used and the increasing sophistication and sensitivity of
analytical methods, it might well be possible to detect minute amounts
of the "active" principle in parts per billion or even parts per trillion.
On 4 Jun 2026 at 11:12:26 BST, "Jeff Layman" <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 03/06/2026 22:04, The Todal wrote:
On 03/06/2026 18:45, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 03/06/2026 16:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 3 Jun 2026 at 15:53:36 BST, "Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com> wrote: >>>>>
On 2026-06-01, Roger Hayter wrote:You're entitled to believe that if you wish: I don't.
On 1 Jun 2026 at 18:58:52 BST, "Adam Funk" <a24061a@ducksburg.com> >>>>>>> wrote:...
On 2026-05-30, The Todal wrote:
So there is a separate legal and civil liberties issue: is it >>>>>>>>> right for
the government and the media to keep this a secret and might it save >>>>>>>>> more lives if a loving family member were to see a packet of this >>>>>>>>> stuff
in their child's bedroom and realise that it is actually a likely >>>>>>>>> suicide method?
It's named in the Wikipedia article. In any case, there are plenty of >>>>>>>> potentially lethal substances around in the world, including legal >>>>>>>> decorative garden plants.
The problem with herbal medicines generally is that they are pretty >>>>>>> unreliable. Unless they are assayed for an active ingredient, in >>>>>>> which case
they are not herbal medicines, just poorly purified drugs.
That's definitely true if you're aiming for a specific dose, but for >>>>>> the ones I'm thinking of (Digitalis purpurea or Aconitum spp.) it
would be easy to swallow enough to be sure of a lethal
effect. (Wikipedia says 1 g of Aconitum plant material is sufficient.) >>>>>
What don't you wish to believe? That herbal medicines are unreliable or >>>> that digoxin or aconitine aren't lethal in small does?
Herbal medicines prepared and supplied in the UK are usually carefully >>>> controlled. I would be concerned about those imported directly from the >>>> Asia and sold in ethnic supermarkets.
I can tell you from experience that it is possible to detect the
smallest amount of aconitine. As part of a pharmacognosy practical
during a pharmacy degree we were asked touch the tip of our tongue on a >>>> small piece of aconite root we had been given. Within seconds the tip of >>>> my tongue was tingling, and it lasted a few minutes (that was 60 years >>>> ago; I doubt health'n'safety would allow it these days). I do wonder how >>>> anyone can eat aconitum leaves or root without getting a very strange
sensation in their mouth, and becoming suspicious of what they were eating.
Aconite is one of the most popular homoeopathic remedies, and the way
homoeopathic pharmacies prepare their remedies is to triturate the
active substance and repeatedly dilute it so that, allegedly, this
releases the potency. Conventional science says that the active
substance (eg aconite) would not be detectable after this dilution
process. Are you able to confirm this, or refute it?
The simple answer is to confirm it. However, depending on the level of
dilution used and the increasing sophistication and sensitivity of
analytical methods, it might well be possible to detect minute amounts
of the "active" principle in parts per billion or even parts per trillion.
Even the most sensitive analysis is not going to work when there is a high probability that there are actually no molecules of the relevant chemical entity in a sample.
snip
On 04/06/2026 12:15, Roger Hayter wrote:
Even the most sensitive analysis is not going to work when there is a high >> probability that there are actually no molecules of the relevant chemical
entity in a sample.
snip
But aren't there likely to be a few molecules of almost everything in
the average sample of tap water?
I recall an exam question that I encountered many years ago which simply said: "It has been claimed that every breath you take contains at least
a few molecules from the dying breath of Julius Caesar: is this true?".
After a few minutes of dredging up guesses for various physical
quantities (Avogadro's number, volume of the human lung, volume of the atmosphere, etc.) I managed to estimate that the number of molecules was about 3, so it probably was true. Which I found quite surprising.
On 2026-06-04, Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 04/06/2026 12:15, Roger Hayter wrote:
Even the most sensitive analysis is not going to work when there is a high >>> probability that there are actually no molecules of the relevant chemical >>> entity in a sample.
snip
But aren't there likely to be a few molecules of almost everything in
the average sample of tap water?
I recall an exam question that I encountered many years ago which simply
said: "It has been claimed that every breath you take contains at least
a few molecules from the dying breath of Julius Caesar: is this true?".
After a few minutes of dredging up guesses for various physical
quantities (Avogadro's number, volume of the human lung, volume of the
atmosphere, etc.) I managed to estimate that the number of molecules was
about 3, so it probably was true. Which I found quite surprising.
You're considerably underestimating how diluted homeopathic remedies
are supposed to be. Hahnemann's recommendation was 1 part in 10^60.
1 in 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.
Apparently this means that a homeopathic pill containing a single
atom of "active ingredient" would be 150,000,000km in diameter - the
distance between the Earth and the Sun - and would immediately
collapse into a black hole under its own gravity.
The previous poster's logic, if valid, would mean that quite early in the dilution process the diluent would contain as much of the active ingredient as
the current stock solution; and the continuing process meaningless. Which about sums up homeopathy.
On 04/06/2026 17:33, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2026-06-04, Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:No I'm not. Merely guessing that almost every known and unknown chemical, whether originally added and diluted or not, probably has a few molecules in any glass of water even if not deliberately added. Dilution doesn't make any difference, as it's diluted just with water, as I understand it.
On 04/06/2026 12:15, Roger Hayter wrote:
Even the most sensitive analysis is not going to work when there is a high >>>> probability that there are actually no molecules of the relevant chemical >>>> entity in a sample.
snip
But aren't there likely to be a few molecules of almost everything in
the average sample of tap water?
I recall an exam question that I encountered many years ago which simply >>> said: "It has been claimed that every breath you take contains at least >>> a few molecules from the dying breath of Julius Caesar: is this true?".
After a few minutes of dredging up guesses for various physical
quantities (Avogadro's number, volume of the human lung, volume of the
atmosphere, etc.) I managed to estimate that the number of molecules was >>> about 3, so it probably was true. Which I found quite surprising.
You're considerably underestimating how diluted homeopathic remedies
are supposed to be. Hahnemann's recommendation was 1 part in 10^60.
1 in 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.
Apparently this means that a homeopathic pill containing a single
atom of "active ingredient" would be 150,000,000km in diameter - the
distance between the Earth and the Sun - and would immediately
collapse into a black hole under its own gravity.
But aren't there likely to be a few molecules of almost everything in the average sample of tap water?
I recall an exam question that I encountered many years ago which simply said:
"It has been claimed that every breath you take contains at least a few molecules from the dying breath of Julius Caesar: is this true?".
After a few minutes of dredging up guesses for various physical quantities (Avogadro's number, volume of the human lung, volume of the atmosphere, etc.) I managed to estimate that the number of molecules was about 3, so it probably
was true. Which I found quite surprising.
"Clive Page" <usenet@page2.eu> wrote in message news:n8dalqF9v9mU1@mid.individual.net...
But aren't there likely to be a few molecules of almost everything in the
average sample of tap water?
I recall an exam question that I encountered many years ago which simply said:
"It has been claimed that every breath you take contains at least a few
molecules from the dying breath of Julius Caesar: is this true?".
After a few minutes of dredging up guesses for various physical quantities >> (Avogadro's number, volume of the human lung, volume of the atmosphere, etc.)
I managed to estimate that the number of molecules was about 3, so it probably
was true. Which I found quite surprising.
But surely isn't this simply a variation of the birthday problem ?
Namely how many people on average do you need in a room before
two of them share the same birthday ?
The answer being 23. As 23 people give 253 possible pairs
23X22
---------
2
which is more than half the number of available birthdays which is 365
Whereas in this case if we assume that both Caesar's last breath and
our own breath each consist of 1 billion molecules this works out at
1 billion X 1 billion - 1
-----------------------------
2
possible matching molecules.
However for any such match to be possible, then that would mean that the total number of molecules in the atmosphere should not exceed
(1 billion X 1 billion - 1) X 2
Which I rather doubt, somehow.
bb
In addition, the placebo effect is quite strong, although this requires
a level of belief that I simply cannot achieve.
On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 18:16:26 +0100, GB <NotSomeone@Microsoft.Invalid> wrote:
In addition, the placebo effect is quite strong, although this requires
a level of belief that I simply cannot achieve.
Apparently, the placebo effect works even when you know it's a
placebo. This may sound bizarre, but it's true. And, equally
bizarrely, different coloured placebo tablets or liquids have
different levels of the placebo effect for different conditions
- some colours "work" better than others, depending on what they
are ostensibly treating.
What that means in practice is that with a tube of Smarties and sufficient willpower, you can self-medicate for practically any illness.
On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 18:16:26 +0100, GB <NotSomeone@Microsoft.Invalid> wrote:
In addition, the placebo effect is quite strong, although this requires
a level of belief that I simply cannot achieve.
Apparently, the placebo effect works even when you know it's a placebo. This may sound bizarre, but it's true. And, equally bizarrely, different coloured placebo tablets or liquids have different levels of the placebo effect for different conditions - some colours "work" better than others, depending on what they are ostensibly treating.
What that means in practice is that with a tube of Smarties and sufficient willpower, you can self-medicate for practically any illness.
Mark
On 05/06/2026 17:49, billy bookcase wrote:
"Clive Page" <usenet@page2.eu> wrote in messageAvogadro's number is considerably bigger than a billion x a billion.
news:n8dalqF9v9mU1@mid.individual.net...
But aren't there likely to be a few molecules of almost everything in the >>> average sample of tap water?
I recall an exam question that I encountered many years ago which simply >>> said:
"It has been claimed that every breath you take contains at least a few
molecules from the dying breath of Julius Caesar: is this true?".
After a few minutes of dredging up guesses for various physical quantities >>> (Avogadro's number, volume of the human lung, volume of the atmosphere,
etc.)
I managed to estimate that the number of molecules was about 3, so it
probably
was true. Which I found quite surprising.
But surely isn't this simply a variation of the birthday problem ?
Namely how many people on average do you need in a room before
two of them share the same birthday ?
The answer being 23. As 23 people give 253 possible pairs
23X22
---------
2
which is more than half the number of available birthdays which is 365
Whereas in this case if we assume that both Caesar's last breath and
our own breath each consist of 1 billion molecules this works out at
1 billion X 1 billion - 1
-----------------------------
2
possible matching molecules.
However for any such match to be possible, then that would mean that the
total number of molecules in the atmosphere should not exceed
(1 billion X 1 billion - 1) X 2
Which I rather doubt, somehow.
bb
I can tell you from experience that it is possible to detect the
smallest amount of aconitine. As part of a pharmacognosy practical
during a pharmacy degree we were asked touch the tip of our tongue on a small piece of aconite root we had been given. Within seconds the tip of
my tongue was tingling, and it lasted a few minutes (that was 60 years
ago; I doubt health'n'safety would allow it these days). I do wonder how anyone can eat aconitum leaves or root without getting a very strange sensation in their mouth, and becoming suspicious of what they were eating.
On 2026-06-04, Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 04/06/2026 12:15, Roger Hayter wrote:
Even the most sensitive analysis is not going to work when there is a high >>> probability that there are actually no molecules of the relevant chemical >>> entity in a sample.
snip
But aren't there likely to be a few molecules of almost everything in
the average sample of tap water?
I recall an exam question that I encountered many years ago which simply
said: "It has been claimed that every breath you take contains at least
a few molecules from the dying breath of Julius Caesar: is this true?".
After a few minutes of dredging up guesses for various physical
quantities (Avogadro's number, volume of the human lung, volume of the
atmosphere, etc.) I managed to estimate that the number of molecules was
about 3, so it probably was true. Which I found quite surprising.
You're considerably underestimating how diluted homeopathic remedies
are supposed to be. Hahnemann's recommendation was 1 part in 10^60.
1 in 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.
Apparently this means that a homeopathic pill containing a single
atom of "active ingredient" would be 150,000,000km in diameter - the
distance between the Earth and the Sun - and would immediately
collapse into a black hole under its own gravity.
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