• Outdoor Lights - Pondering

    From Generalie@Generalie@nospam.com to uk.d-i-y on Fri Aug 7 22:12:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Hi D-I-Y Team

    Within the next month, I hope to have a new drive laid, so it got me to thinking about the possibility of lights at end of the drive.
    Full disclosure, the drive is only about 2 cars long so this is not a
    grand affair.

    Reading supplier web sites, it seems that low voltage lighting is
    preferred which has the advantage of being outside Part P.

    I currently have "outside" lights attached to the property. But these
    have no exposed wiring and are powered/connected to the downstairs
    lighting ring.

    It just so happens that the junction box for the existing outside lights
    is located in the garage.
    So I was wondering whether it would be acceptable to take a switched
    live from that JB to a transformer and from there run 2 feeds each to a separate light either side of the drive.

    Further questions.....

    What spec of cable should be used, buried under the new drive sub-base?
    Any additional earth requirements necessary?
    Recommendations on light fittings would be appreciated - I envisage low intensity bulbs mounted on short posts to highlight the drive
    extremities will be good enough.

    Many thanks for any insights.


    Phil
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John R Walliker@jrwalliker@gmail.com to uk.d-i-y on Fri Aug 7 23:18:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 07/08/2026 22:12, Generalie wrote:
    Hi D-I-Y Team

    Within the next month, I hope to have a new drive laid, so it got me to thinking about the possibility of lights at end of the drive.
    Full disclosure, the drive is only about 2 cars long so this is not a
    grand affair.

    Reading supplier web sites, it seems that low voltage lighting is
    preferred which has the advantage of being outside Part P.

    I currently have "outside" lights attached to the property.-a But these
    have no exposed wiring and are powered/connected to the downstairs
    lighting ring.

    It just so happens that the junction box for the existing outside lights
    is located in the garage.
    So I was wondering whether it would be acceptable to take a switched
    live from that JB to a transformer and from there run 2 feeds each to a separate light either side of the drive.

    Further questions.....

    What spec of cable should be used, buried under the new drive sub-base?
    Any additional earth requirements necessary?
    Recommendations on light fittings would be appreciated - I envisage low intensity bulbs mounted on short posts to highlight the drive
    extremities will be good enough.

    Many thanks for any insights.


    Phil

    Why not just use ordinary mains powered LED lights? Will anyone notice?

    When burying things, there is nothing better than a duct. You never
    know what you might want to pull through it later.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sat Aug 8 12:20:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 07/08/2026 22:12, Generalie wrote:
    Hi D-I-Y Team

    Within the next month, I hope to have a new drive laid, so it got me to thinking about the possibility of lights at end of the drive.
    Full disclosure, the drive is only about 2 cars long so this is not a
    grand affair.

    Reading supplier web sites, it seems that low voltage lighting is
    preferred which has the advantage of being outside Part P.

    One disadvantage is that there can be high voltage drops in the low
    voltage wiring.

    Do yer Ohm's Law shit before forking out money to lay inadequate cabling


    I currently have "outside" lights attached to the property.-a But these
    have no exposed wiring and are powered/connected to the downstairs
    lighting ring.

    It just so happens that the junction box for the existing outside lights
    is located in the garage.

    So I was wondering whether it would be acceptable to take a switched
    live from that JB to a transformer and from there run 2 feeds each to a separate light either side of the drive.

    Pretty ideal if its a well isolated PSU and the cables are thick enough

    LED lighting has made it a lot easier as the current demands are only
    30% or less of tungsten

    Further questions.....

    What spec of cable should be used, buried under the new drive sub-base?

    Fucking big ones.

    Even for just a couple of 5W LEDs

    Any additional earth requirements necessary?

    Not at 12V or less

    Recommendations on light fittings would be appreciated - I envisage low intensity bulbs mounted on short posts to highlight the drive
    extremities will be good enough.

    Me I like fake traditional fittings, so Victorian lampposts...:-)

    https://www.lampandlight.co.uk/classic-black-outdoor-standing-lamp-170-cm-ip44-new-orleans

    You can get E27 low voltage LED bulbs for them

    Actually looking at suitable bulbs...

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Low-Voltage-Degree-Edison-DC12-36V/dp/B07XSG23WF/ref=asc_df_B07XSG23WF

    ...I note that they will run from 36V down to 12V which means that
    something like a 24V supply could drop a ton of voltage before it dimmed
    the bulbs

    My earlier warnings were on account of experience with 12V halogens

    Ok,. I wrote this and did the research simultaneously...

    TLDR summary:-
    ==========
    Use 24V supply or thereabouts
    USE LED LV bulbs
    Use whatever lamp style you fancy
    Use as thick cable as you can get away with. Personally I'd use 2.5mm
    three core armoured buried at least 600mm if I was young and fit...Its
    not earth shatteringly expensive and is the de luxe choice
    Earth not needed at 24V, but can be added for extra safety




    Many thanks for any insights.


    Phil
    --
    "Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
    let them."



    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Rumm@see.my.signature@nowhere.null to uk.d-i-y on Sat Aug 8 12:21:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 07/08/2026 22:12, Generalie wrote:
    Hi D-I-Y Team

    Within the next month, I hope to have a new drive laid, so it got me to thinking about the possibility of lights at end of the drive.
    Full disclosure, the drive is only about 2 cars long so this is not a
    grand affair.

    Reading supplier web sites, it seems that low voltage lighting is
    preferred which has the advantage of being outside Part P.

    I currently have "outside" lights attached to the property.-a But these
    have no exposed wiring and are powered/connected to the downstairs
    lighting ring.

    It just so happens that the junction box for the existing outside lights
    is located in the garage.
    So I was wondering whether it would be acceptable to take a switched
    live from that JB to a transformer and from there run 2 feeds each to a separate light either side of the drive.

    Further questions.....

    What spec of cable should be used, buried under the new drive sub-base?

    For direct burial, SWA is the only real option without some other form
    of protection. Double insulated cables like HiTuff can be run on the
    ground and exposed to sunlight etc, but is not designed to be buried
    without additional protection like conduit or a duct.

    Any additional earth requirements necessary?

    If running a SELV[1] then it does not have or require an earth (the of
    the "transformer" is floating with respect to earth)

    [1] https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Mains_Voltage#Extra_Low_Voltage_or_ELV


    Recommendations on light fittings would be appreciated - I envisage low intensity bulbs mounted on short posts to highlight the drive
    extremities will be good enough.

    Bollard lights might do:

    https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/tcl/search?query=bollard&footer_search=submit&sort_order=&category_id=&sub_category_id=&manufacturer_ids=

    or perhaps "drive over" lights:

    https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GLM07W.html
    --
    Cheers,

    John.

    /=================================================================\
    | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
    | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \=================================================================/
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Layman@Jeff@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sat Aug 8 12:58:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 08/08/2026 12:21, John Rumm wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 22:12, Generalie wrote:
    Hi D-I-Y Team

    Within the next month, I hope to have a new drive laid, so it got me to
    thinking about the possibility of lights at end of the drive.
    Full disclosure, the drive is only about 2 cars long so this is not a
    grand affair.

    Reading supplier web sites, it seems that low voltage lighting is
    preferred which has the advantage of being outside Part P.

    I currently have "outside" lights attached to the property.-a But these
    have no exposed wiring and are powered/connected to the downstairs
    lighting ring.

    It just so happens that the junction box for the existing outside lights
    is located in the garage.
    So I was wondering whether it would be acceptable to take a switched
    live from that JB to a transformer and from there run 2 feeds each to a
    separate light either side of the drive.

    Further questions.....

    What spec of cable should be used, buried under the new drive sub-base?

    For direct burial, SWA is the only real option without some other form
    of protection. Double insulated cables like HiTuff can be run on the
    ground and exposed to sunlight etc, but is not designed to be buried
    without additional protection like conduit or a duct.

    Any additional earth requirements necessary?

    If running a SELV[1] then it does not have or require an earth (the of
    the "transformer" is floating with respect to earth)

    [1] https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Mains_Voltage#Extra_Low_Voltage_or_ELV

    Many moons ago I dealt with a mains-powered pond pump problem with a
    couple of back-to-back transformers. The pump was rated at around 30W,
    and was about 30 feet from the mains plug.

    I had a pair of identical toroidal transformers with several taps on the secondary. So I connected one of the secondary taps to the cable which
    ran down the garden, then connected the far end of the cable to the
    other toroidal tranny in reverse, and with the pump connected up and
    working, measured the voltage across the pump. When it was near to 230V,
    I made the connection permanent. I seem to remember that the voltage was
    about 30V at the first secondary, and I used the 20V (or maybe 24V?) connection at the other end, so the voltage drop along the cable became unimportant.

    It worked without problem 24/7 for at least 5 years.
    --
    Jeff
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sat Aug 8 13:19:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 08/08/2026 12:58, Jeff Layman wrote:
    Many moons ago I dealt with a mains-powered pond pump problem with a
    couple of back-to-back transformers. The pump was rated at around 30W,
    and was about 30 feet from the mains plug.

    I had a pair of identical toroidal transformers with several taps on the secondary. So I connected one of the secondary taps to the cable which
    ran down the garden, then connected the far end of the cable to the
    other toroidal tranny in reverse, and with the pump connected up and working, measured the voltage across the pump. When it was near to 230V,
    I made the connection permanent. I seem to remember that the voltage was about 30V at the first secondary, and I used the 20V (or maybe 24V?) connection at the other end, so the voltage drop along the cable became unimportant.

    It worked without problem 24/7 for at least 5 years.

    Built your own 'garden grid' Neat!

    Bur with LEDs you dont need to go back up to 240V...
    --
    WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Layman@Jeff@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sat Aug 8 13:37:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 08/08/2026 13:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 08/08/2026 12:58, Jeff Layman wrote:
    Many moons ago I dealt with a mains-powered pond pump problem with a
    couple of back-to-back transformers. The pump was rated at around 30W,
    and was about 30 feet from the mains plug.

    I had a pair of identical toroidal transformers with several taps on the
    secondary. So I connected one of the secondary taps to the cable which
    ran down the garden, then connected the far end of the cable to the
    other toroidal tranny in reverse, and with the pump connected up and
    working, measured the voltage across the pump. When it was near to 230V,
    I made the connection permanent. I seem to remember that the voltage was
    about 30V at the first secondary, and I used the 20V (or maybe 24V?)
    connection at the other end, so the voltage drop along the cable became
    unimportant.

    It worked without problem 24/7 for at least 5 years.

    Built your own 'garden grid' Neat!

    All I had to was to be particularly careful to remember that was that
    there was no RCD-type protection available at the pump's terminals - especially as the pump was of the submerged type and soaking wet!

    Bur with LEDs you dont need to go back up to 240V...

    True, and the total current is unlikely to exceed an amp or two.
    --
    Jeff
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Layman@Jeff@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sat Aug 8 13:52:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 08/08/2026 13:37, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 08/08/2026 13:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 08/08/2026 12:58, Jeff Layman wrote:
    Many moons ago I dealt with a mains-powered pond pump problem with a
    couple of back-to-back transformers. The pump was rated at around 30W,
    and was about 30 feet from the mains plug.

    I had a pair of identical toroidal transformers with several taps on the >>> secondary. So I connected one of the secondary taps to the cable which
    ran down the garden, then connected the far end of the cable to the
    other toroidal tranny in reverse, and with the pump connected up and
    working, measured the voltage across the pump. When it was near to 230V, >>> I made the connection permanent. I seem to remember that the voltage was >>> about 30V at the first secondary, and I used the 20V (or maybe 24V?)
    connection at the other end, so the voltage drop along the cable became
    unimportant.

    It worked without problem 24/7 for at least 5 years.

    Built your own 'garden grid' Neat!

    All I had to was to be particularly careful to remember that was that
    there was no RCD-type protection available at the pump's terminals - especially as the pump was of the submerged type and soaking wet!

    How did I manage to garble that??!! It should read:

    All I had to do was to be particularly careful to remember that there
    was no RCD-type protection available at the pump's terminals -
    especially as the pump was of the submerged type and soaking wet!
    --
    Jeff
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Charles Hope@clh@candehope.me.uk to uk.d-i-y on Sat Aug 8 13:30:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 08/08/2026 12:21, John Rumm wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 22:12, Generalie wrote:
    Hi D-I-Y Team

    Within the next month, I hope to have a new drive laid, so it got me
    to thinking about the possibility of lights at end of the drive.
    Full disclosure, the drive is only about 2 cars long so this is not a
    grand affair.

    Reading supplier web sites, it seems that low voltage lighting is
    preferred which has the advantage of being outside Part P.

    I currently have "outside" lights attached to the property.-a But these
    have no exposed wiring and are powered/connected to the downstairs
    lighting ring.

    It just so happens that the junction box for the existing outside
    lights is located in the garage.
    So I was wondering whether it would be acceptable to take a switched
    live from that JB to a transformer and from there run 2 feeds each to
    a separate light either side of the drive.

    Further questions.....

    What spec of cable should be used, buried under the new drive sub-base?

    For direct burial, SWA is the only real option without some other form
    of protection. Double insulated cables like HiTuff can be run on the
    ground and exposed to sunlight etc, but is not designed to be buried
    without additional protection like conduit or a duct.

    how about MICC? or that old fashioned. I did learn how to use it in 1960!


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sat Aug 8 18:43:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 08/08/2026 14:30, Charles Hope wrote:
    On 08/08/2026 12:21, John Rumm wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 22:12, Generalie wrote:
    Hi D-I-Y Team

    Within the next month, I hope to have a new drive laid, so it got me
    to thinking about the possibility of lights at end of the drive.
    Full disclosure, the drive is only about 2 cars long so this is not a
    grand affair.

    Reading supplier web sites, it seems that low voltage lighting is
    preferred which has the advantage of being outside Part P.

    I currently have "outside" lights attached to the property.-a But
    these have no exposed wiring and are powered/connected to the
    downstairs lighting ring.

    It just so happens that the junction box for the existing outside
    lights is located in the garage.
    So I was wondering whether it would be acceptable to take a switched
    live from that JB to a transformer and from there run 2 feeds each to
    a separate light either side of the drive.

    Further questions.....

    What spec of cable should be used, buried under the new drive sub-base?

    For direct burial, SWA is the only real option without some other form
    of protection. Double insulated cables like HiTuff can be run on the
    ground and exposed to sunlight etc, but is not designed to be buried
    without additional protection like conduit or a duct.

    how about MICC? or that old fashioned. I did learn how to use it in 1960!

    I wouldn't trust mineral insulation

    3 cored armoured is the real McCoy



    --
    rCLPuritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.rCY

    H.L. Mencken, A Mencken Chrestomathy

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Hayter@roger@hayter.org to uk.d-i-y on Sat Aug 8 21:14:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 8 Aug 2026 at 12:20:30 BST, "The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 07/08/2026 22:12, Generalie wrote:
    Hi D-I-Y Team

    Within the next month, I hope to have a new drive laid, so it got me to
    thinking about the possibility of lights at end of the drive.
    Full disclosure, the drive is only about 2 cars long so this is not a
    grand affair.

    Reading supplier web sites, it seems that low voltage lighting is
    preferred which has the advantage of being outside Part P.

    One disadvantage is that there can be high voltage drops in the low
    voltage wiring.

    Do yer Ohm's Law shit before forking out money to lay inadequate cabling


    I currently have "outside" lights attached to the property. But these
    have no exposed wiring and are powered/connected to the downstairs
    lighting ring.

    It just so happens that the junction box for the existing outside lights
    is located in the garage.

    So I was wondering whether it would be acceptable to take a switched
    live from that JB to a transformer and from there run 2 feeds each to a
    separate light either side of the drive.

    Pretty ideal if its a well isolated PSU and the cables are thick enough

    LED lighting has made it a lot easier as the current demands are only
    30% or less of tungsten

    Further questions.....

    What spec of cable should be used, buried under the new drive sub-base?

    Fucking big ones.

    Even for just a couple of 5W LEDs

    Any additional earth requirements necessary?

    Not at 12V or less

    Recommendations on light fittings would be appreciated - I envisage low
    intensity bulbs mounted on short posts to highlight the drive
    extremities will be good enough.

    Me I like fake traditional fittings, so Victorian lampposts...:-)

    https://www.lampandlight.co.uk/classic-black-outdoor-standing-lamp-170-cm-ip44-new-orleans

    You can get E27 low voltage LED bulbs for them

    Actually looking at suitable bulbs...

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Low-Voltage-Degree-Edison-DC12-36V/dp/B07XSG23WF/ref=asc_df_B07XSG23WF

    ...I note that they will run from 36V down to 12V which means that
    something like a 24V supply could drop a ton of voltage before it dimmed
    the bulbs

    My earlier warnings were on account of experience with 12V halogens

    Ok,. I wrote this and did the research simultaneously...

    TLDR summary:-
    ==========
    Use 24V supply or thereabouts
    USE LED LV bulbs
    Use whatever lamp style you fancy
    Use as thick cable as you can get away with. Personally I'd use 2.5mm
    three core armoured buried at least 600mm if I was young and fit...Its
    not earth shatteringly expensive and is the de luxe choice
    Earth not needed at 24V, but can be added for extra safety


    With an isolated 24V supply there is no extra safety with an earth, but if it is connected to a house PME supply there is actually a small extra danger.






    Many thanks for any insights.


    Phil
    --
    Roger Hayter
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to uk.d-i-y on Sat Aug 8 22:49:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:
    When burying things, there is nothing better than a duct. You never
    know what you might want to pull through it later.

    While it's being dug up, run ducts for:

    - Lighting
    - Fibre broadband
    (even if you already have that, perhaps another operator will turn up -
    eg Virgin + Openreach or Openreach + Cityfibre)
    - EV charging point(s)

    (some of those can be the same duct)

    And perhaps a bit more excessively:
    - new water main (in case your old one is lead / knackered)
    - three phase electricity (in case your current supply isn't adequate for
    additional loads like EV charging or heat pump)

    Check ebay and Facebook Marketplace, often bits of duct left over from
    building sites are available for cheap.

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Generalie@Generalie@nospam.com to uk.d-i-y on Sun Aug 9 15:33:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 08/08/2026 22:49, Theo wrote:
    John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:
    When burying things, there is nothing better than a duct. You never
    know what you might want to pull through it later.

    While it's being dug up, run ducts for:

    - Lighting
    - Fibre broadband
    (even if you already have that, perhaps another operator will turn up -
    eg Virgin + Openreach or Openreach + Cityfibre)
    - EV charging point(s)

    (some of those can be the same duct)

    And perhaps a bit more excessively:
    - new water main (in case your old one is lead / knackered)
    - three phase electricity (in case your current supply isn't adequate for
    additional loads like EV charging or heat pump)

    Check ebay and Facebook Marketplace, often bits of duct left over from building sites are available for cheap.

    Theo

    Thanks John and Theo

    What would you suggest for duct material/size?

    Phil
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Generalie@Generalie@nospam.com to uk.d-i-y on Sun Aug 9 15:48:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 08/08/2026 22:14, Roger Hayter wrote:
    On 8 Aug 2026 at 12:20:30 BST, "The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 07/08/2026 22:12, Generalie wrote:
    Hi D-I-Y Team

    Within the next month, I hope to have a new drive laid, so it got me to
    thinking about the possibility of lights at end of the drive.
    Full disclosure, the drive is only about 2 cars long so this is not a
    grand affair.

    Reading supplier web sites, it seems that low voltage lighting is
    preferred which has the advantage of being outside Part P.

    One disadvantage is that there can be high voltage drops in the low
    voltage wiring.

    Do yer Ohm's Law shit before forking out money to lay inadequate cabling


    I currently have "outside" lights attached to the property. But these
    have no exposed wiring and are powered/connected to the downstairs
    lighting ring.

    It just so happens that the junction box for the existing outside lights >>> is located in the garage.

    So I was wondering whether it would be acceptable to take a switched
    live from that JB to a transformer and from there run 2 feeds each to a
    separate light either side of the drive.

    Pretty ideal if its a well isolated PSU and the cables are thick enough

    LED lighting has made it a lot easier as the current demands are only
    30% or less of tungsten

    Further questions.....

    What spec of cable should be used, buried under the new drive sub-base?

    Fucking big ones.

    Even for just a couple of 5W LEDs

    Any additional earth requirements necessary?

    Not at 12V or less

    Recommendations on light fittings would be appreciated - I envisage low
    intensity bulbs mounted on short posts to highlight the drive
    extremities will be good enough.

    Me I like fake traditional fittings, so Victorian lampposts...:-)

    https://www.lampandlight.co.uk/classic-black-outdoor-standing-lamp-170-cm-ip44-new-orleans

    You can get E27 low voltage LED bulbs for them

    Actually looking at suitable bulbs...

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Low-Voltage-Degree-Edison-DC12-36V/dp/B07XSG23WF/ref=asc_df_B07XSG23WF

    ...I note that they will run from 36V down to 12V which means that
    something like a 24V supply could drop a ton of voltage before it dimmed
    the bulbs

    My earlier warnings were on account of experience with 12V halogens

    Ok,. I wrote this and did the research simultaneously...

    TLDR summary:-
    ==========
    Use 24V supply or thereabouts
    USE LED LV bulbs
    Use whatever lamp style you fancy
    Use as thick cable as you can get away with. Personally I'd use 2.5mm
    three core armoured buried at least 600mm if I was young and fit...Its
    not earth shatteringly expensive and is the de luxe choice
    Earth not needed at 24V, but can be added for extra safety


    With an isolated 24V supply there is no extra safety with an earth, but if it is connected to a house PME supply there is actually a small extra danger.






    Many thanks for any insights.


    Phil



    Thanks Roger
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Generalie@Generalie@nospam.com to uk.d-i-y on Sun Aug 9 15:55:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 08/08/2026 12:21, John Rumm wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 22:12, Generalie wrote:
    Hi D-I-Y Team

    Within the next month, I hope to have a new drive laid, so it got me
    to thinking about the possibility of lights at end of the drive.
    Full disclosure, the drive is only about 2 cars long so this is not a
    grand affair.

    Reading supplier web sites, it seems that low voltage lighting is
    preferred which has the advantage of being outside Part P.

    I currently have "outside" lights attached to the property.-a But these
    have no exposed wiring and are powered/connected to the downstairs
    lighting ring.

    It just so happens that the junction box for the existing outside
    lights is located in the garage.
    So I was wondering whether it would be acceptable to take a switched
    live from that JB to a transformer and from there run 2 feeds each to
    a separate light either side of the drive.

    Further questions.....

    What spec of cable should be used, buried under the new drive sub-base?

    For direct burial, SWA is the only real option without some other form
    of protection. Double insulated cables like HiTuff can be run on the
    ground and exposed to sunlight etc, but is not designed to be buried
    without additional protection like conduit or a duct.

    Any additional earth requirements necessary?

    If running a SELV[1] then it does not have or require an earth (the of
    the "transformer" is floating with respect to earth)

    [1] https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php? title=Mains_Voltage#Extra_Low_Voltage_or_ELV


    Recommendations on light fittings would be appreciated - I envisage
    low intensity bulbs mounted on short posts to highlight the drive
    extremities will be good enough.

    Bollard lights might do:

    https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/tcl/search? query=bollard&footer_search=submit&sort_order=&category_id=&sub_category_id=&manufacturer_ids=

    or perhaps "drive over" lights:

    https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GLM07W.html



    Thanks John

    I reckon the bollard lights will be suitable here.

    By the way, I'm the same guy that you and Adam helped out with the
    cooker circuit and local East Yorkshire building inspector fiasco in
    2012 - still grateful!

    Phil
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Generalie@Generalie@nospam.com to uk.d-i-y on Sun Aug 9 15:57:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 08/08/2026 12:58, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 08/08/2026 12:21, John Rumm wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 22:12, Generalie wrote:
    Hi D-I-Y Team

    Within the next month, I hope to have a new drive laid, so it got me to
    thinking about the possibility of lights at end of the drive.
    Full disclosure, the drive is only about 2 cars long so this is not a
    grand affair.

    Reading supplier web sites, it seems that low voltage lighting is
    preferred which has the advantage of being outside Part P.

    I currently have "outside" lights attached to the property.-a But these
    have no exposed wiring and are powered/connected to the downstairs
    lighting ring.

    It just so happens that the junction box for the existing outside lights >>> is located in the garage.
    So I was wondering whether it would be acceptable to take a switched
    live from that JB to a transformer and from there run 2 feeds each to a
    separate light either side of the drive.

    Further questions.....

    What spec of cable should be used, buried under the new drive sub-base?

    For direct burial, SWA is the only real option without some other form
    of protection. Double insulated cables like HiTuff can be run on the
    ground and exposed to sunlight etc, but is not designed to be buried
    without additional protection like conduit or a duct.

    Any additional earth requirements necessary?

    If running a SELV[1] then it does not have or require an earth (the of
    the "transformer" is floating with respect to earth)

    [1]
    https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?
    title=Mains_Voltage#Extra_Low_Voltage_or_ELV

    Many moons ago I dealt with a mains-powered pond pump problem with a
    couple of back-to-back transformers. The pump was rated at around 30W,
    and was about 30 feet from the mains plug.

    I had a pair of identical toroidal transformers with several taps on the secondary. So I connected one of the secondary taps to the cable which
    ran down the garden, then connected the far end of the cable to the
    other toroidal tranny in reverse, and with the pump connected up and working, measured the voltage across the pump. When it was near to 230V,
    I made the connection permanent. I seem to remember that the voltage was about 30V at the first secondary, and I used the 20V (or maybe 24V?) connection at the other end, so the voltage drop along the cable became unimportant.

    It worked without problem 24/7 for at least 5 years.


    Thanks Jeff

    But that sounds way too electrical techy for me!!

    Phil
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Generalie@Generalie@nospam.com to uk.d-i-y on Sun Aug 9 16:14:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 08/08/2026 12:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 22:12, Generalie wrote:
    Hi D-I-Y Team

    Within the next month, I hope to have a new drive laid, so it got me
    to thinking about the possibility of lights at end of the drive.
    Full disclosure, the drive is only about 2 cars long so this is not a
    grand affair.

    Reading supplier web sites, it seems that low voltage lighting is
    preferred which has the advantage of being outside Part P.

    One disadvantage is that there can be high voltage drops in the low
    voltage wiring.

    Do yer Ohm's Law shit before forking out money to lay inadequate cabling


    I currently have "outside" lights attached to the property.-a But these
    have no exposed wiring and are powered/connected to the downstairs
    lighting ring.

    It just so happens that the junction box for the existing outside
    lights is located in the garage.

    So I was wondering whether it would be acceptable to take a switched
    live from that JB to a transformer and from there run 2 feeds each to
    a separate light either side of the drive.

    Pretty ideal if its a well isolated PSU and the cables are thick enough

    LED lighting has made it a lot easier as the current demands are only
    30% or less of tungsten

    Further questions.....

    What spec of cable should be used, buried under the new drive sub-base?

    Fucking big ones.

    Even for just a couple of 5W LEDs

    Any additional earth requirements necessary?

    Not at 12V or less

    Recommendations on light fittings would be appreciated - I envisage
    low intensity bulbs mounted on short posts to highlight the drive
    extremities will be good enough.

    Me I like fake traditional fittings, so Victorian lampposts...:-)

    https://www.lampandlight.co.uk/classic-black-outdoor-standing-lamp-170- cm-ip44-new-orleans

    You can get E27 low voltage LED bulbs for them

    Actually looking at suitable bulbs...

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Low-Voltage-Degree-Edison-DC12-36V/dp/ B07XSG23WF/ref=asc_df_B07XSG23WF

    ...I note that they will run from 36V down to 12V which means that
    something like a 24V supply could drop a ton of voltage before it dimmed
    the bulbs

    My earlier warnings were on account of experience with 12V halogens

    Ok,. I wrote this and did the research simultaneously...

    TLDR summary:-
    ==========
    Use 24V supply or thereabouts
    USE LED LV bulbs
    Use whatever lamp style you fancy
    Use as thick cable as you can get away with. Personally I'd use 2.5mm
    three core armoured buried at least 600mm if I was young and fit...Its
    not earth shatteringly expensive and is the de luxe choice
    Earth not needed at 24V, but can be added for extra safety




    Many thanks for any insights.


    Phil


    Thanks NP

    I like the TLDR Summary although not sure on that acronym.

    Any recommendations on a suitable transformer please?

    The low voltage cable runs will be around 12m to each light from the
    (garage located) transformer.

    Phil
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to uk.d-i-y on Sun Aug 9 16:39:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Generalie <Generalie@nospam.com> wrote:
    On 08/08/2026 22:49, Theo wrote:
    John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:
    When burying things, there is nothing better than a duct. You never
    know what you might want to pull through it later.

    While it's being dug up, run ducts for:

    - Lighting
    - Fibre broadband
    (even if you already have that, perhaps another operator will turn up -
    eg Virgin + Openreach or Openreach + Cityfibre)
    - EV charging point(s)

    (some of those can be the same duct)

    And perhaps a bit more excessively:
    - new water main (in case your old one is lead / knackered)
    - three phase electricity (in case your current supply isn't adequate for
    additional loads like EV charging or heat pump)

    Check ebay and Facebook Marketplace, often bits of duct left over from building sites are available for cheap.

    Theo

    Thanks John and Theo

    What would you suggest for duct material/size?

    63mm (outer) / 50mm (inner) twinwall is the standard size for small jobs: https://www.drainageshop.co.uk/twinwall-cable-ducting-coils/black-twinwall-duct-63mm-x-50m-coil.html

    You can get smaller but I'd not do that if you can help it.

    What I did was buy a 30m offcut of the black stuff - black = LV electricity
    (ie 240V). Then I spray painted it for the service it was carrying - saves having to buy multiple rolls of different colours which gets annoying if you only need a few metres.

    There's also somebody on ebay selling colours by the metre but they're in
    Devon and that's too far to collect.

    Before installation, I used the included (thin) drawcord to pull
    through some 6mm polypropylene rope as my pull cord.

    (although I actually fed the two cables of SWA through before installing the duct, as it's quite heavy)

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sun Aug 9 20:40:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 09/08/2026 16:14, Generalie wrote:
    On 08/08/2026 12:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 22:12, Generalie wrote:
    Hi D-I-Y Team

    Within the next month, I hope to have a new drive laid, so it got me
    to thinking about the possibility of lights at end of the drive.
    Full disclosure, the drive is only about 2 cars long so this is not a
    grand affair.

    Reading supplier web sites, it seems that low voltage lighting is
    preferred which has the advantage of being outside Part P.

    One disadvantage is that there can be high voltage drops in the low
    voltage wiring.

    Do yer Ohm's Law shit before forking out money to lay inadequate cabling


    I currently have "outside" lights attached to the property.-a But
    these have no exposed wiring and are powered/connected to the
    downstairs lighting ring.

    It just so happens that the junction box for the existing outside
    lights is located in the garage.

    So I was wondering whether it would be acceptable to take a switched
    live from that JB to a transformer and from there run 2 feeds each to
    a separate light either side of the drive.

    Pretty ideal if its a well isolated PSU and the cables are thick enough

    LED lighting has made it a lot easier as the current demands are only
    30% or less of tungsten

    Further questions.....

    What spec of cable should be used, buried under the new drive sub-base?

    Fucking big ones.

    Even for just a couple of 5W LEDs

    Any additional earth requirements necessary?

    Not at 12V or less

    Recommendations on light fittings would be appreciated - I envisage
    low intensity bulbs mounted on short posts to highlight the drive
    extremities will be good enough.

    Me I like fake traditional fittings, so Victorian lampposts...:-)

    https://www.lampandlight.co.uk/classic-black-outdoor-standing-lamp-170- cm-ip44-new-orleans

    You can get E27 low voltage LED bulbs for them

    Actually looking at suitable bulbs...

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Low-Voltage-Degree-Edison-DC12-36V/dp/
    B07XSG23WF/ref=asc_df_B07XSG23WF

    ...I note that they will run from 36V down to 12V which means that
    something like a 24V supply could drop a ton of voltage before it
    dimmed the bulbs

    My earlier warnings were on account of experience with 12V halogens

    Ok,. I wrote this and did the research simultaneously...

    TLDR summary:-
    ==========
    Use 24V supply or thereabouts
    USE LED LV bulbs
    Use whatever lamp style you fancy
    Use as thick cable as you can get away with. Personally I'd use 2.5mm
    three core armoured buried at least 600mm if I was young and fit...Its
    not earth shatteringly expensive and is the de luxe choice
    Earth not needed at 24V, but can be added for extra safety




    Many thanks for any insights.


    Phil


    Thanks NP

    I like the TLDR Summary although not sure on that acronym.
    Too Long Didnt Read


    Any recommendations on a suitable transformer please?
    Well I source that sort of stuff from China, which isn't a favourite
    place if you have to ask, so I'll let someone else answer that


    The low voltage cable runs will be around 12m to each light from the
    (garage located) transformer.

    That sounds OK. As long as you have LV leds in there the drop doesnt
    matter that much

    Phil
    --
    Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Generalie@Generalie@nospam.com to uk.d-i-y on Sun Aug 9 23:04:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 09/08/2026 16:39, Theo wrote:
    Generalie <Generalie@nospam.com> wrote:
    On 08/08/2026 22:49, Theo wrote:
    John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:
    When burying things, there is nothing better than a duct. You never
    know what you might want to pull through it later.

    While it's being dug up, run ducts for:

    - Lighting
    - Fibre broadband
    (even if you already have that, perhaps another operator will turn up - >>> eg Virgin + Openreach or Openreach + Cityfibre)
    - EV charging point(s)

    (some of those can be the same duct)

    And perhaps a bit more excessively:
    - new water main (in case your old one is lead / knackered)
    - three phase electricity (in case your current supply isn't adequate for >>> additional loads like EV charging or heat pump)

    Check ebay and Facebook Marketplace, often bits of duct left over from
    building sites are available for cheap.

    Theo

    Thanks John and Theo

    What would you suggest for duct material/size?

    63mm (outer) / 50mm (inner) twinwall is the standard size for small jobs: https://www.drainageshop.co.uk/twinwall-cable-ducting-coils/black-twinwall-duct-63mm-x-50m-coil.html

    You can get smaller but I'd not do that if you can help it.

    What I did was buy a 30m offcut of the black stuff - black = LV electricity (ie 240V). Then I spray painted it for the service it was carrying - saves having to buy multiple rolls of different colours which gets annoying if you only need a few metres.

    There's also somebody on ebay selling colours by the metre but they're in Devon and that's too far to collect.

    Before installation, I used the included (thin) drawcord to pull
    through some 6mm polypropylene rope as my pull cord.

    (although I actually fed the two cables of SWA through before installing the duct, as it's quite heavy)

    Theo

    Thanks again Theo - your input is appreciated

    Phil
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Layman@Jeff@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Mon Aug 10 08:41:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 09/08/2026 15:57, Generalie wrote:
    On 08/08/2026 12:58, Jeff Layman wrote:

    Many moons ago I dealt with a mains-powered pond pump problem with a
    couple of back-to-back transformers. The pump was rated at around 30W,
    and was about 30 feet from the mains plug.

    I had a pair of identical toroidal transformers with several taps on the
    secondary. So I connected one of the secondary taps to the cable which
    ran down the garden, then connected the far end of the cable to the
    other toroidal tranny in reverse, and with the pump connected up and
    working, measured the voltage across the pump. When it was near to 230V,
    I made the connection permanent. I seem to remember that the voltage was
    about 30V at the first secondary, and I used the 20V (or maybe 24V?)
    connection at the other end, so the voltage drop along the cable became
    unimportant.

    It worked without problem 24/7 for at least 5 years.


    Thanks Jeff

    But that sounds way too electrical techy for me!!

    It was just a tale I was recounting of a way to get mains voltage some distance away from the house without having a cable actually carrying
    mains voltage. It isn't relevant for you as you can use low-voltage leds anyway.

    I hope you get what you want without too much trouble.
    --
    Jeff
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John R Walliker@jrwalliker@gmail.com to uk.d-i-y on Mon Aug 10 11:18:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 09/08/2026 16:39, Theo wrote:
    Generalie <Generalie@nospam.com> wrote:
    On 08/08/2026 22:49, Theo wrote:
    John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:
    When burying things, there is nothing better than a duct. You never
    know what you might want to pull through it later.

    While it's being dug up, run ducts for:

    - Lighting
    - Fibre broadband
    (even if you already have that, perhaps another operator will turn up - >>> eg Virgin + Openreach or Openreach + Cityfibre)
    - EV charging point(s)

    (some of those can be the same duct)

    And perhaps a bit more excessively:
    - new water main (in case your old one is lead / knackered)
    - three phase electricity (in case your current supply isn't adequate for >>> additional loads like EV charging or heat pump)

    Check ebay and Facebook Marketplace, often bits of duct left over from
    building sites are available for cheap.

    Theo

    Thanks John and Theo

    What would you suggest for duct material/size?

    63mm (outer) / 50mm (inner) twinwall is the standard size for small jobs: https://www.drainageshop.co.uk/twinwall-cable-ducting-coils/black-twinwall-duct-63mm-x-50m-coil.html

    You can get smaller but I'd not do that if you can help it.

    What I did was buy a 30m offcut of the black stuff - black = LV electricity (ie 240V). Then I spray painted it for the service it was carrying - saves having to buy multiple rolls of different colours which gets annoying if you only need a few metres.

    There's also somebody on ebay selling colours by the metre but they're in Devon and that's too far to collect.

    Before installation, I used the included (thin) drawcord to pull
    through some 6mm polypropylene rope as my pull cord.

    (although I actually fed the two cables of SWA through before installing the duct, as it's quite heavy)

    Theo

    Sometimes it is necessary to improvise.
    I needed to run an ethernet cable through a spare buried water pipe 40m
    long with no drawstring in place. The solution was to get some baler
    twine (as this was on a farm) and tie the end of it up into a ball that
    was a snug fit in the pipe. A vacuum cleaner taped to the other end of
    the pipe soon pulled the twine through.
    I only needed one cable, but pulled two through just in case.
    Buried ducts ALWAYS have water in them.
    John

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Rumm@see.my.signature@nowhere.null to uk.d-i-y on Wed Aug 12 10:34:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 08/08/2026 14:30, Charles Hope wrote:
    On 08/08/2026 12:21, John Rumm wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 22:12, Generalie wrote:
    Hi D-I-Y Team

    Within the next month, I hope to have a new drive laid, so it got me
    to thinking about the possibility of lights at end of the drive.
    Full disclosure, the drive is only about 2 cars long so this is not a
    grand affair.

    Reading supplier web sites, it seems that low voltage lighting is
    preferred which has the advantage of being outside Part P.

    I currently have "outside" lights attached to the property.-a But
    these have no exposed wiring and are powered/connected to the
    downstairs lighting ring.

    It just so happens that the junction box for the existing outside
    lights is located in the garage.
    So I was wondering whether it would be acceptable to take a switched
    live from that JB to a transformer and from there run 2 feeds each to
    a separate light either side of the drive.

    Further questions.....

    What spec of cable should be used, buried under the new drive sub-base?

    For direct burial, SWA is the only real option without some other form
    of protection. Double insulated cables like HiTuff can be run on the
    ground and exposed to sunlight etc, but is not designed to be buried
    without additional protection like conduit or a duct.

    how about MICC? or that old fashioned. I did learn how to use it in 1960!

    If you get the plastic clad MICC then yes that can be buried directly... although arguably that is more work to terminate than SWA and probably
    more expensive. (slimmer though)
    --
    Cheers,

    John.

    /=================================================================\
    | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
    | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \=================================================================/
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Rumm@see.my.signature@nowhere.null to uk.d-i-y on Wed Aug 12 10:36:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 09/08/2026 15:55, Generalie wrote:
    On 08/08/2026 12:21, John Rumm wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 22:12, Generalie wrote:
    Hi D-I-Y Team

    Within the next month, I hope to have a new drive laid, so it got me
    to thinking about the possibility of lights at end of the drive.
    Full disclosure, the drive is only about 2 cars long so this is not a
    grand affair.

    Reading supplier web sites, it seems that low voltage lighting is
    preferred which has the advantage of being outside Part P.

    I currently have "outside" lights attached to the property.-a But
    these have no exposed wiring and are powered/connected to the
    downstairs lighting ring.

    It just so happens that the junction box for the existing outside
    lights is located in the garage.
    So I was wondering whether it would be acceptable to take a switched
    live from that JB to a transformer and from there run 2 feeds each to
    a separate light either side of the drive.

    Further questions.....

    What spec of cable should be used, buried under the new drive sub-base?

    For direct burial, SWA is the only real option without some other form
    of protection. Double insulated cables like HiTuff can be run on the
    ground and exposed to sunlight etc, but is not designed to be buried
    without additional protection like conduit or a duct.

    Any additional earth requirements necessary?

    If running a SELV[1] then it does not have or require an earth (the of
    the "transformer" is floating with respect to earth)

    [1] https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?
    title=Mains_Voltage#Extra_Low_Voltage_or_ELV


    Recommendations on light fittings would be appreciated - I envisage
    low intensity bulbs mounted on short posts to highlight the drive
    extremities will be good enough.

    Bollard lights might do:

    https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/tcl/search?
    query=bollard&footer_search=submit&sort_order=&category_id=&sub_category_id=&manufacturer_ids=

    or perhaps "drive over" lights:

    https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GLM07W.html



    Thanks John

    I reckon the bollard lights will be suitable here.

    By the way, I'm the same guy that you and Adam helped out with the
    cooker circuit and local East Yorkshire building inspector fiasco in
    2012 - still grateful!

    Was that the one where the building inspector did not seem to understand diversity, and would not sign off on the electrical when there was no
    cooker fitted yet?
    --
    Cheers,

    John.

    /=================================================================\
    | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
    | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \=================================================================/
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2