On 06/08/2026 12:56, Theo wrote:
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 6 Aug 2026 at 12:01:38 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Actually I'm a bit confused, AIUI you use oil for heating and cooking. >>>> How do you spend -u174.61 on electricity? I spend something like -u50 >>>> quid. There is a lot to be said for a using Pis as computers and a new >>>> TV and Freezer.Well there is a lot of 24x7 stuff - refrigerators and the shit stirring >>> tank.
Plus a fair amount of computer kit
But that's still about 25 units a day - over 3 times the UK household average.
I'd be looking at cutting consumption . . .
It's more than what I pay including hot water, heating, cooking and running a server 24/7... (no gas or oil here)
TheoI decided not to live in a rabbit hutch many years ago
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 12:56, Theo wrote:
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:I decided not to live in a rabbit hutch many years ago
On 6 Aug 2026 at 12:01:38 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Actually I'm a bit confused, AIUI you use oil for heating and cooking. >>>>>> How do you spend -u174.61 on electricity? I spend something like -u50 >>>>>> quid. There is a lot to be said for a using Pis as computers and a new >>>>>> TV and Freezer.Well there is a lot of 24x7 stuff - refrigerators and the shit stirring >>>>> tank.
Plus a fair amount of computer kit
But that's still about 25 units a day - over 3 times the UK household average.
I'd be looking at cutting consumption . . .
It's more than what I pay including hot water, heating, cooking and running >>> a server 24/7... (no gas or oil here)
Theo
But the rabbit hutch size mostly influences what you pay for heating.
Unless you have aircon, I can't see how the size of your house makes a difference to your electricity bill.
Perhaps a large house with such a large electricity bill would be a good location for some solar panels and a battery? ;-)
Theo--
On 06/08/2026 14:09, Theo wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 12:56, Theo wrote:
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:I decided not to live in a rabbit hutch many years ago
On 6 Aug 2026 at 12:01:38 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Actually I'm a bit confused, AIUI you use oil for heating and cooking. >>>>>> How do you spend -u174.61 on electricity? I spend something like -u50 >>>>>> quid. There is a lot to be said for a using Pis as computers and a new >>>>>> TV and Freezer.Well there is a lot of 24x7 stuff - refrigerators and the shit stirring >>>>> tank.
Plus a fair amount of computer kit
But that's still about 25 units a day - over 3 times the UK household average.
I'd be looking at cutting consumption . . .
It's more than what I pay including hot water, heating, cooking and running
a server 24/7... (no gas or oil here)
Theo
But the rabbit hutch size mostly influences what you pay for heating. Unless you have aircon, I can't see how the size of your house makes a difference to your electricity bill.
When every room takes 8 bulbs to light...
Perhaps a large house with such a large electricity bill would be a good location for some solar panels and a battery? ;-)
Don't be silly. I am a true socialist
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 06/08/2026 14:09, Theo wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:When every room takes 8 bulbs to light...
On 06/08/2026 12:56, Theo wrote:
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:I decided not to live in a rabbit hutch many years ago
On 6 Aug 2026 at 12:01:38 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Actually I'm a bit confused, AIUI you use oil for heating and cooking. >>>>>>>> How do you spend -u174.61 on electricity? I spend something like -u50 >>>>>>>> quid. There is a lot to be said for a using Pis as computers and a new >>>>>>>> TV and Freezer.Well there is a lot of 24x7 stuff - refrigerators and the shit stirring >>>>>>> tank.
Plus a fair amount of computer kit
But that's still about 25 units a day - over 3 times the UK household average.
I'd be looking at cutting consumption . . .
It's more than what I pay including hot water, heating, cooking and running
a server 24/7... (no gas or oil here)
Theo
But the rabbit hutch size mostly influences what you pay for heating.
Unless you have aircon, I can't see how the size of your house makes a
difference to your electricity bill.
Yebbut an LED bulb takes roughly 2-4W, so that's 18-36W per room. Still not much.
Unless you believe no-one can better Mr Edison's finest incandescent lamps, and are using 50W GU10s everywhere?
Perhaps a large house with such a large electricity bill would be a good >>> location for some solar panels and a battery? ;-)Don't be silly. I am a true socialist
True - a capitalist would be interested in the financial return.
Theo--
House is 5 times uk average size.
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 6 Aug 2026 at 12:01:38 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Actually I'm a bit confused, AIUI you use oil for heating and cooking. >>>> How do you spend -u174.61 on electricity? I spend something like -u50Well there is a lot of 24x7 stuff - refrigerators and the shit stirring
quid. There is a lot to be said for a using Pis as computers and a new >>>> TV and Freezer.
tank.
Plus a fair amount of computer kit
But that's still about 25 units a day - over 3 times the UK household average.
I'd be looking at cutting consumption . . .
It's more than what I pay including hot water, heating, cooking and running
a server 24/7... (no gas or oil here)
Theo
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 6 Aug 2026 at 12:01:38 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Actually I'm a bit confused, AIUI you use oil for heating and cooking. >>>>> How do you spend -u174.61 on electricity? I spend something like -u50 >>>>> quid. There is a lot to be said for a using Pis as computers and a new >>>>> TV and Freezer.Well there is a lot of 24x7 stuff - refrigerators and the shit stirring >>>> tank.
Plus a fair amount of computer kit
But that's still about 25 units a day - over 3 times the UK household average.
I'd be looking at cutting consumption . . .
It's more than what I pay including hot water, heating, cooking and running >> a server 24/7... (no gas or oil here)
Theo
For heating a 5 bedroom house, cooking, lighting and doing 14,000 miles in
my EV last year (charged at home), I paid under -u1 a day (thanks to solar panels, EV tariff and home battery).
Obviously IrCOm doing something wrong.
Tim
For heating a 5 bedroom house, cooking, lighting and doing 14,000 miles in >> my EV last year (charged at home), I paid under -u1 a day (thanks to solar >> panels, EV tariff and home battery).yes. You and your renewable subsidies are why my bills are what they are.
Obviously IrCOm doing something wrong.
On 6 Aug 2026 at 21:34:39 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
For heating a 5 bedroom house, cooking, lighting and doing 14,000 miles in >>> my EV last year (charged at home), I paid under -u1 a day (thanks to solar >>> panels, EV tariff and home battery).yes. You and your renewable subsidies are why my bills are what they are.
Obviously IrCOm doing something wrong.
No. As has been explained, your bills are so high because you use so much energy.
IME* it'd be trivial to better than half your electricity consumption. Unless you have outgoings that you're not sharing - heated pool for example.
On 06/08/2026 22:00, RJH wrote:
On 6 Aug 2026 at 21:34:39 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:You simply know nothing about my situation at all
No. As has been explained, your bills are so high because you use so muchFor heating a 5 bedroom house, cooking, lighting and doing 14,000 miles in >>>> my EV last year (charged at home), I paid under -u1 a day (thanks to solar >>>> panels, EV tariff and home battery).yes. You and your renewable subsidies are why my bills are what they are. >>
Obviously IrCOm doing something wrong.
energy.
IME* it'd be trivial to better than half your electricity consumption. Unless
you have outgoings that you're not sharing - heated pool for example.
Last month I used 458 units of electricity. More than usual because the
Aga is off for the summer
Most people use 200+ units a day .
People with solar panels are paid 12p a unit for export.
For
electricity that is not worth 4p
And which costs about 19p a unit to balance with gas.
And EDF charge me
Day rate: 31.98p per kWh
Night rate: 14.62p per kWh
Standing charge :54.15p per day
And claim that is the cheapest tariff
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect on or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
On 06/08/2026 20:33, Tim+ wrote:
[quoted text muted]yes. You and your renewable subsidies are why my bills are what they
are.
On Thu, 06 Aug 2026 21:34:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/08/2026 20:33, Tim+ wrote:
[quoted text muted]yes. You and your renewable subsidies are why my bills are what they
are.
I'll think of you and thank you everytime I pay my electricity bill then
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your
energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect on
or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
On 05/08/2026 01:37 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your
energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your
energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect on >> or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
I got something similar from the water company today. They're increasing
my DD from -u64.40 to -u85+.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:For years, I stuck with the rateable value billing, in order to avoid
we're increasing your energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61.
I got something similar from the water company today. They're increasing
my DD from -u64.40 to -u85+.
On Fri, 07 Aug 2026 12:27:17 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/08/2026 12:16, Jethro wrote:
On Thu, 06 Aug 2026 21:34:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/08/2026 20:33, Tim+ wrote:
[quoted text muted]yes. You and your renewable subsidies are why my bills are what they
are.
I'll think of you and thank you everytime I pay my electricity bill
then
Yes, you antisocial wanker
But an antisocial wanker who pays under market value for electricty.
JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 05/08/2026 01:37 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your >>> energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your
energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect on >>> or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
I got something similar from the water company today. They're increasing
my DD from -u64.40 to -u85+.
Lucky you! My water DD went up in April from -u87 to -u117.
I loathe the Water CompanyrCOs pleas to rCOsave every droprCO. It isnrCOt up to me
to make up the shortfall in water supplies caused by the lack of investment in the decades since privatisation, especially now IrCOm being hit in the wallet to pay for the investorsrCO gravy train.
On 6 Aug 2026 at 22:29:18 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/08/2026 22:00, RJH wrote:Of course.
On 6 Aug 2026 at 21:34:39 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:You simply know nothing about my situation at all
No. As has been explained, your bills are so high because you use so much >>> energy.For heating a 5 bedroom house, cooking, lighting and doing 14,000 miles inyes. You and your renewable subsidies are why my bills are what they are. >>>
my EV last year (charged at home), I paid under -u1 a day (thanks to solar
panels, EV tariff and home battery).
Obviously IrCOm doing something wrong.
IME* it'd be trivial to better than half your electricity consumption. Unless
you have outgoings that you're not sharing - heated pool for example.
Last month I used 458 units of electricity. More than usual because the
Aga is off for the summer
Not too bad - similar to someone I know who leaves halogen lights on 24/7. And
I'd guess if you're doining a fair bit of daily roasting/baking it could easily add up to 15/day.
Most people use 200+ units a day .
Month - yes.
People with solar panels are paid 12p a unit for export.
For
electricity that is not worth 4p
Not sure of your point but that's nothing like what I get.
And which costs about 19p a unit to balance with gas.
Yes, so you keep saying - without figures or a source. I can't just take your word on views and data that appears to be at least a decade out of date. This is what AI has to say:
--
For 2024/25, NESO's (National Energy System Operator, the old National Grid ESO) total balancing costs were about -u2.7 billion, of which -u1.7-1.9 billion
was constraint payments rCo over 70% of the total. Roughly -u350-380 million of
that was paid to wind farms to curtail output, while replacing that lost wind with gas-fired generation cost over -u1 billion (up from -u835 million the prior
year).
On household bills, balancing costs currently average about -u3/month (4.3% of
a typical bill). NESO projects this could rise to -u4-8 billion a year by 2030
as offshore wind capacity keeps outpacing the transmission grid's ability to move that power from Scotland to demand in the south rCo the bottleneck won't be
resolved until new subsea cables and pylon lines complete later in the decade.
--
By all means challenge that summary - but with decent sources.
Just repeating
your assertion doesn't make it more true - at least on Usenet.
And EDF charge me
Day rate: 31.98p per kWh
Night rate: 14.62p per kWh
Standing charge :54.15p per day
And claim that is the cheapest tariff
If you benefit from the night rate - possibly. 25p/kWh seems to be the flat rate - not sure, haven't checked recently.
You do seem to be an ideal candidate for solar . . .
On 07/08/2026 12:16, Jethro wrote:
On Thu, 06 Aug 2026 21:34:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/08/2026 20:33, Tim+ wrote:
[quoted text muted]yes. You and your renewable subsidies are why my bills are what they
are.
I'll think of you and thank you everytime I pay my electricity bill
then
Yes, you antisocial wanker
On 06/08/2026 20:33, Tim+ wrote:
For heating a 5 bedroom house, cooking, lighting and doing 14,000 miles in >> my EV last year (charged at home), I paid under -u1 a day (thanks to solar >> panels, EV tariff and home battery).yes. You and your renewable subsidies are why my bills are what they are.
Obviously IrCOm doing something wrong.
Fascist cunt
JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 05/08/2026 01:37 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your >>> energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your
energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect on >>> or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
I got something similar from the water company today. They're increasing
my DD from -u64.40 to -u85+.
Lucky you! My water DD went up in April from -u87 to -u117.
I loathe the Water CompanyrCOs pleas to rCOsave every droprCO. It isnrCOt up to me
to make up the shortfall in water supplies caused by the lack of investment in the decades since privatisation, especially now IrCOm being hit in the wallet to pay for the investorsrCO gravy train.
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.
In message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri, 7 Aug
2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.
GBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
This is what AI has to say:
--
For 2024/25, NESO's (National Energy System Operator, the old National Grid >> ESO) total balancing costs were about -u2.7 billion, of which -u1.7-1.9 billion
was constraint payments rCo over 70% of the total. Roughly -u350-380 million of
that was paid to wind farms to curtail output, while replacing that lost wind
with gas-fired generation cost over -u1 billion (up from -u835 million the prior
year).
On household bills, balancing costs currently average about -u3/month (4.3% of
a typical bill). NESO projects this could rise to -u4-8 billion a year by 2030
as offshore wind capacity keeps outpacing the transmission grid's ability to >> move that power from Scotland to demand in the south rCo the bottleneck won't be
resolved until new subsea cables and pylon lines complete later in the decade.
--
Right now Wind is supplying 18% of demand and Solar 36%.
ThererCOs a 1500-mile wide High pressure area over the UK thatrCOll still be here when the sun sets tonight.
If we didnrCOt have gas, where would the electricity supply come from?
It isnrCOt even winter and Renewables arenrCOt cutting the mustard yet again.
Why oh why are we farting about with Unreliables?
By all means challenge that summary - but with decent sources.
Perhaps you should have used rCOdecent sourcesrCO rather than AI, so you go first.
On 7 Aug 2026 at 14:06:39 BST, Spike wrote:
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
This is what AI has to say:
--
For 2024/25, NESO's (National Energy System Operator, the old National Grid
ESO) total balancing costs were about -u2.7 billion, of which -u1.7-1.9 billion
was constraint payments rCo over 70% of the total. Roughly -u350-380 million of
that was paid to wind farms to curtail output, while replacing that lost wind
with gas-fired generation cost over -u1 billion (up from -u835 million the prior
year).
On household bills, balancing costs currently average about -u3/month (4.3% of
a typical bill). NESO projects this could rise to -u4-8 billion a year by 2030
as offshore wind capacity keeps outpacing the transmission grid's ability to
move that power from Scotland to demand in the south rCo the bottleneck won't be
resolved until new subsea cables and pylon lines complete later in the decade.
--
Right now Wind is supplying 18% of demand and Solar 36%.
ThererCOs a 1500-mile wide High pressure area over the UK thatrCOll still be
here when the sun sets tonight.
If we didnrCOt have gas, where would the electricity supply come from?
Did you read that extract? take another look - the answer's implicit.
It isnrCOt even winter and Renewables arenrCOt cutting the mustard yet again.
Why oh why are we farting about with Unreliables?
You manage to completely avoid the point.
By all means challenge that summary - but with decent sources.
Perhaps you should have used rCOdecent sourcesrCO rather than AI, so you go first.
'My' AI does use sources. If you read the extract carefully you'll see the main source used. Others include the Power Technology web site. By all means suggest counters etc.
On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri, 7 Aug
2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.
GBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic transport...
On 07/08/2026 16:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:on Tuesday & Thursday I travelled via LNER (Nationalised) between London
In message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri, 7 Aug
2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.
GBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic transport...
& Edinburgh (and back). Friendly staff and trains on time.
On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri, 7 Aug >>2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.
GBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic transport...
On Fri, 07 Aug 2026 16:00:04 +0000, Charles Hope wrote:
On 07/08/2026 16:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:on Tuesday & Thursday I travelled via LNER (Nationalised) between London
In message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri, 7 Aug
2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.
GBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic transport...
& Edinburgh (and back). Friendly staff and trains on time.
Maybe staff just get grumpy around TNP ?
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 on Fri, 7 Aug
2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri, 7 Aug
2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.
-aGBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic transport...
Fares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares), trains
permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new fleet a compete
fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power outage at an over-centralised
signal box in Manchester disrupted trains across half the country
for 24hrs.
And that's just the most recent.--
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 7 Aug 2026 at 14:06:39 BST, Spike wrote:
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
This is what AI has to say:
--
For 2024/25, NESO's (National Energy System Operator, the old National Grid
ESO) total balancing costs were about -u2.7 billion, of which -u1.7-1.9 billion
was constraint payments rCo over 70% of the total. Roughly -u350-380 million of
that was paid to wind farms to curtail output, while replacing that lost wind
with gas-fired generation cost over -u1 billion (up from -u835 million the prior
year).
On household bills, balancing costs currently average about -u3/month (4.3% of
a typical bill). NESO projects this could rise to -u4-8 billion a year by 2030
as offshore wind capacity keeps outpacing the transmission grid's ability to
move that power from Scotland to demand in the south rCo the bottleneck won't be
resolved until new subsea cables and pylon lines complete later in the decade.
--
Right now Wind is supplying 18% of demand and Solar 36%.
ThererCOs a 1500-mile wide High pressure area over the UK thatrCOll still be
here when the sun sets tonight.
If we didnrCOt have gas, where would the electricity supply come from?
Did you read that extract? take another look - the answer's implicit.
It isnrCOt even winter and Renewables arenrCOt cutting the mustard yet again.
Why oh why are we farting about with Unreliables?
You manage to completely avoid the point.
By all means challenge that summary - but with decent sources.
Perhaps you should have used rCOdecent sourcesrCO rather than AI, so you go >>> first.
'My' AI does use sources. If you read the extract carefully you'll see the >> main source used. Others include the Power Technology web site. By all means >> suggest counters etc.
Probably it's referring to:
https://www.neso.energy/document/362561/download
"In 2024/25 Balancing Services Use of System (BSUoS) charges contributed to ~3.4% of electricity bills for an average domestic consumer which works out to be about ~-u3 a month on a typical domestic electricity bill."
"Looking Forward
Balancing costs are expected to rise in the short term, reaching a peak of ~-u8bn
in 2030. However, this peak in costs can be avoided, delivering savings of up to
~-u4bn in 2030, if critical network projects are brought forward and delays to
plans for wider network expansion are avoided, as outlined in our CP30 Advice."
Apart from mangling the percentage it seems to match.
On 7 Aug 2026 at 17:03:27 BST, Theo wrote:
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 7 Aug 2026 at 14:06:39 BST, Spike wrote:
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
This is what AI has to say:
--
For 2024/25, NESO's (National Energy System Operator, the old National Grid
ESO) total balancing costs were about -u2.7 billion, of which -u1.7-1.9 billion
was constraint payments rCo over 70% of the total. Roughly -u350-380 million of
that was paid to wind farms to curtail output, while replacing that lost wind
with gas-fired generation cost over -u1 billion (up from -u835 million the prior
year).
On household bills, balancing costs currently average about -u3/month (4.3% of
a typical bill). NESO projects this could rise to -u4-8 billion a year by 2030
as offshore wind capacity keeps outpacing the transmission grid's ability to
move that power from Scotland to demand in the south rCo the bottleneck won't be
resolved until new subsea cables and pylon lines complete later in the decade.
--
Right now Wind is supplying 18% of demand and Solar 36%.
ThererCOs a 1500-mile wide High pressure area over the UK thatrCOll still be
here when the sun sets tonight.
If we didnrCOt have gas, where would the electricity supply come from? >>>>
Did you read that extract? take another look - the answer's implicit.
It isnrCOt even winter and Renewables arenrCOt cutting the mustard yet again.
Why oh why are we farting about with Unreliables?
You manage to completely avoid the point.
By all means challenge that summary - but with decent sources.
Perhaps you should have used rCOdecent sourcesrCO rather than AI, so you go
first.
'My' AI does use sources. If you read the extract carefully you'll see the >>> main source used. Others include the Power Technology web site. By all means
suggest counters etc.
Probably it's referring to:
https://www.neso.energy/document/362561/download
"In 2024/25 Balancing Services Use of System (BSUoS) charges contributed to >> ~3.4% of electricity bills for an average domestic consumer which works out >> to be about ~-u3 a month on a typical domestic electricity bill."
"Looking Forward
Balancing costs are expected to rise in the short term, reaching a peak of >> ~-u8bn
in 2030. However, this peak in costs can be avoided, delivering savings of up
to
~-u4bn in 2030, if critical network projects are brought forward and delays to
plans for wider network expansion are avoided, as outlined in our CP30
Advice."
Apart from mangling the percentage it seems to match.
Yes - that'd be it. It was NESO anyway. Odd/worrying that it misreported the %
. . . and that I didn't bother to check(!). Claude's explanation:
--
There are two different figures depending on the source. NESO's own explainer page (which I quoted) says balancing costs run about 4.3% of a typical domestic bill "in a typical year." But NESO's 2025 Annual Report gives 3.4% specifically for FY2024/25.
So 3.4% is the actual figure for the most recent year; 4.3% appears to be a rounder, more general "typical year" framing NESO uses elsewhere. I'd trust the 3.4% as the more precise, current number.
--
On 07/08/2026 21:52, RJH wrote:
On 7 Aug 2026 at 17:03:27 BST, Theo wrote:And both of them leave out all the 'socialised' costs of renewable
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 7 Aug 2026 at 14:06:39 BST, Spike wrote:
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
This is what AI has to say:
--
For 2024/25, NESO's (National Energy System Operator, the old National Grid
ESO) total balancing costs were about -u2.7 billion, of which -u1.7-1.9 billion
was constraint payments rCo over 70% of the total. Roughly -u350-380 million of
that was paid to wind farms to curtail output, while replacing that lost wind
with gas-fired generation cost over -u1 billion (up from -u835 million the prior
year).
On household bills, balancing costs currently average about -u3/month (4.3% of
a typical bill). NESO projects this could rise to -u4-8 billion a year by 2030
as offshore wind capacity keeps outpacing the transmission grid's ability to
move that power from Scotland to demand in the south rCo the bottleneck won't be
resolved until new subsea cables and pylon lines complete later in the decade.
--
Right now Wind is supplying 18% of demand and Solar 36%.
ThererCOs a 1500-mile wide High pressure area over the UK thatrCOll still be
here when the sun sets tonight.
If we didnrCOt have gas, where would the electricity supply come from? >>>>>
Did you read that extract? take another look - the answer's implicit.
It isnrCOt even winter and Renewables arenrCOt cutting the mustard yet again.
Why oh why are we farting about with Unreliables?
You manage to completely avoid the point.
By all means challenge that summary - but with decent sources.
Perhaps you should have used rCOdecent sourcesrCO rather than AI, so you go
first.
'My' AI does use sources. If you read the extract carefully you'll see the >>>> main source used. Others include the Power Technology web site. By all means
suggest counters etc.
Probably it's referring to:
https://www.neso.energy/document/362561/download
"In 2024/25 Balancing Services Use of System (BSUoS) charges contributed to >>> ~3.4% of electricity bills for an average domestic consumer which works out >>> to be about ~-u3 a month on a typical domestic electricity bill."
"Looking Forward
Balancing costs are expected to rise in the short term, reaching a peak of >>> ~-u8bn
in 2030. However, this peak in costs can be avoided, delivering savings of up
to
~-u4bn in 2030, if critical network projects are brought forward and delays to
plans for wider network expansion are avoided, as outlined in our CP30
Advice."
Apart from mangling the percentage it seems to match.
Yes - that'd be it. It was NESO anyway. Odd/worrying that it misreported the %
. . . and that I didn't bother to check(!). Claude's explanation:
--
There are two different figures depending on the source. NESO's own explainer
page (which I quoted) says balancing costs run about 4.3% of a typical
domestic bill "in a typical year." But NESO's 2025 Annual Report gives 3.4% >> specifically for FY2024/25.
So 3.4% is the actual figure for the most recent year; 4.3% appears to be a >> rounder, more general "typical year" framing NESO uses elsewhere. I'd trust >> the 3.4% as the more precise, current number.
--
energy that end up appearing on your bills
On 07/08/2026 18:54, Jethro wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2026 16:00:04 +0000, Charles Hope wrote:
On 07/08/2026 16:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:on Tuesday & Thursday I travelled via LNER (Nationalised) between London >>> & Edinburgh (and back). Friendly staff and trains on time.
In message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri, 7 Aug >>>>> 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.
GBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic transport...
Maybe staff just get grumpy around TNP ?
I didn't write that.
I think it was Roland
I haven't been on a train OR bus for at least 2 years...
On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 on Fri, 7 Aug >>2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:Prolly a 'renewable power' cut
On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:Fares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares), trains >>permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new fleet a compete
In message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri, 7
Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.
aGBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic transport...
fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power outage at an over-centralised >>signal box in Manchester disrupted trains across half the country
for 24hrs.
And that's just the most recent.
On 7 Aug 2026 at 21:54:15 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/08/2026 21:52, RJH wrote:
On 7 Aug 2026 at 17:03:27 BST, Theo wrote:And both of them leave out all the 'socialised' costs of renewable
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 7 Aug 2026 at 14:06:39 BST, Spike wrote:
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
This is what AI has to say:
--
For 2024/25, NESO's (National Energy System Operator, the old National Grid
ESO) total balancing costs were about -u2.7 billion, of which -u1.7-1.9 billion
was constraint payments rCo over 70% of the total. Roughly -u350-380 million of
that was paid to wind farms to curtail output, while replacing that lost wind
with gas-fired generation cost over -u1 billion (up from -u835 million the prior
year).
On household bills, balancing costs currently average about -u3/month (4.3% of
a typical bill). NESO projects this could rise to -u4-8 billion a year by 2030
as offshore wind capacity keeps outpacing the transmission grid's ability to
move that power from Scotland to demand in the south rCo the bottleneck won't be
resolved until new subsea cables and pylon lines complete later in the decade.
--
Right now Wind is supplying 18% of demand and Solar 36%.
ThererCOs a 1500-mile wide High pressure area over the UK thatrCOll still be
here when the sun sets tonight.
If we didnrCOt have gas, where would the electricity supply come from? >>>>>>
Did you read that extract? take another look - the answer's implicit. >>>>>
It isnrCOt even winter and Renewables arenrCOt cutting the mustard yet again.
Why oh why are we farting about with Unreliables?
You manage to completely avoid the point.
By all means challenge that summary - but with decent sources.
Perhaps you should have used rCOdecent sourcesrCO rather than AI, so you go
first.
'My' AI does use sources. If you read the extract carefully you'll see the
main source used. Others include the Power Technology web site. By all means
suggest counters etc.
Probably it's referring to:
https://www.neso.energy/document/362561/download
"In 2024/25 Balancing Services Use of System (BSUoS) charges contributed to
~3.4% of electricity bills for an average domestic consumer which works out
to be about ~-u3 a month on a typical domestic electricity bill."
"Looking Forward
Balancing costs are expected to rise in the short term, reaching a peak of >>>> ~-u8bn
in 2030. However, this peak in costs can be avoided, delivering savings of up
to
~-u4bn in 2030, if critical network projects are brought forward and delays to
plans for wider network expansion are avoided, as outlined in our CP30 >>>> Advice."
Apart from mangling the percentage it seems to match.
Yes - that'd be it. It was NESO anyway. Odd/worrying that it misreported the %
. . . and that I didn't bother to check(!). Claude's explanation:
--
There are two different figures depending on the source. NESO's own explainer
page (which I quoted) says balancing costs run about 4.3% of a typical
domestic bill "in a typical year." But NESO's 2025 Annual Report gives 3.4% >>> specifically for FY2024/25.
So 3.4% is the actual figure for the most recent year; 4.3% appears to be a >>> rounder, more general "typical year" framing NESO uses elsewhere. I'd trust >>> the 3.4% as the more precise, current number.
--
energy that end up appearing on your bills
That is the 'spreading' cost - it's given in the quote above, albeit in two different ways. Maybe -u30p.a./household.
If you want to dispute that figure fill your boots. And while you're at it factor in 'socialised', geo/political, economic, social, and environmental benefits.
I was on a bus yesterday, and apart from the impression that the wheels
were bolted direct onto the chassis, it was OK, and the driver cheerful.
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect on or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
I was on a bus yesterday, and apart from the impression that the wheels
were bolted direct onto the chassis, it was OK, and the driver cheerful.
I didn't write that.
Didn't write what? You can tell which postings I've written because they
are all signed.
On 08/08/2026 06:40, Roland Perry wrote:
I was on a bus yesterday, and apart from the impression that the
wheels were bolted direct onto the chassis, it was OK, and the driver
cheerful.
But that is down to individuals. I know of rural bus services where
drivers will make "unofficial" stops outside peoples houses rather than making them walk quarter of a mile to where the company have placed the
bus stop. I have also seen Urban drivers deliberately not stop at a bus stop.
On Sat, 08 Aug 2026 06:40:10 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
I was on a bus yesterday, and apart from the impression that the wheels
were bolted direct onto the chassis, it was OK, and the driver cheerful.
How do they go round and round?
.-)--
On 7 Aug 2026 at 21:54:15 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/08/2026 21:52, RJH wrote:
On 7 Aug 2026 at 17:03:27 BST, Theo wrote:And both of them leave out all the 'socialised' costs of renewable
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 7 Aug 2026 at 14:06:39 BST, Spike wrote:
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
This is what AI has to say:
--
For 2024/25, NESO's (National Energy System Operator, the old National Grid
ESO) total balancing costs were about -u2.7 billion, of which -u1.7-1.9 billion
was constraint payments rCo over 70% of the total. Roughly -u350-380 million of
that was paid to wind farms to curtail output, while replacing that lost wind
with gas-fired generation cost over -u1 billion (up from -u835 million the prior
year).
On household bills, balancing costs currently average about -u3/month (4.3% of
a typical bill). NESO projects this could rise to -u4-8 billion a year by 2030
as offshore wind capacity keeps outpacing the transmission grid's ability to
move that power from Scotland to demand in the south rCo the bottleneck won't be
resolved until new subsea cables and pylon lines complete later in the decade.
--
Right now Wind is supplying 18% of demand and Solar 36%.
ThererCOs a 1500-mile wide High pressure area over the UK thatrCOll still be
here when the sun sets tonight.
If we didnrCOt have gas, where would the electricity supply come from? >>>>>>
Did you read that extract? take another look - the answer's implicit. >>>>>
It isnrCOt even winter and Renewables arenrCOt cutting the mustard yet again.
Why oh why are we farting about with Unreliables?
You manage to completely avoid the point.
By all means challenge that summary - but with decent sources.
Perhaps you should have used rCOdecent sourcesrCO rather than AI, so you go
first.
'My' AI does use sources. If you read the extract carefully you'll see the
main source used. Others include the Power Technology web site. By all means
suggest counters etc.
Probably it's referring to:
https://www.neso.energy/document/362561/download
"In 2024/25 Balancing Services Use of System (BSUoS) charges contributed to
~3.4% of electricity bills for an average domestic consumer which works out
to be about ~-u3 a month on a typical domestic electricity bill."
"Looking Forward
Balancing costs are expected to rise in the short term, reaching a peak of >>>> ~-u8bn
in 2030. However, this peak in costs can be avoided, delivering savings of up
to
~-u4bn in 2030, if critical network projects are brought forward and delays to
plans for wider network expansion are avoided, as outlined in our CP30 >>>> Advice."
Apart from mangling the percentage it seems to match.
Yes - that'd be it. It was NESO anyway. Odd/worrying that it misreported the %
. . . and that I didn't bother to check(!). Claude's explanation:
--
There are two different figures depending on the source. NESO's own explainer
page (which I quoted) says balancing costs run about 4.3% of a typical
domestic bill "in a typical year." But NESO's 2025 Annual Report gives 3.4% >>> specifically for FY2024/25.
So 3.4% is the actual figure for the most recent year; 4.3% appears to be a >>> rounder, more general "typical year" framing NESO uses elsewhere. I'd trust >>> the 3.4% as the more precise, current number.
--
energy that end up appearing on your bills
That is the 'spreading' cost - it's given in the quote above, albeit in two different ways. Maybe -u30p.a./household.
If you want to dispute that figure fill your boots. And while you're at it factor in 'socialised', geo/political, economic, social, and environmental benefits.
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
If you want to dispute that figure fill your boots. And while you're at it >> factor in 'socialised', geo/political, economic, social, and environmental >> benefits.
One could easily get the impression that contacts for the supply of free/cheap/clean Unreliable energy were written by a relative of Al Capone.
Paid to produce electricity (at the same price as the most expensive), paid not to produce electricity, paid when the Unreliable part kicks in, whatrCOs not to like (for the producers, of course)?
Then thererCOs the cost of building a supply grid because the existing balancing grid was never designed for it.
Plus the cost of running the reliable generation in an inefficient
stop/start regime to make up the shortfalls when the wind doesnrCOt blow and the sun doesnrCOt shine.
Whatever happened to cost plus percentage, apart from being trampled to
death in the rush to get on the gravy train?
In message <1155fja$vgjn$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:35:54 on Fri, 7 Aug
2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 on Fri, 7 Aug
Prolly a 'renewable power' cutHas it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic transport...-aFares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares), trains
permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new fleet a compete
fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power outage at an over-centralised
signal box in Manchester disrupted trains across half the country
for 24hrs.
Despite extensive reporting the cause of the underlying power cut has
not been revealed, nor the reason why it took 90 seconds to switch to
the backup supply. All we know is that the underlying power cut affected many premises, not just the signal box.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your
energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your
energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect on >> or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
This is an interesting table of electricity prices by country:
CountryrCa.DomesticrCa.BusinessrCa.vs World Average
US ~$0.15-0.16 ~$0.12 Near average
China ~$0.08 ~$0.09 ~50% below
Japan ~$0.25-0.28 ~$0.18 +50-65% above
Germany ~$0.41 ~$0.24 +140% above
India ~$0.08-0.10 ~$0.10-0.12 ~40-50% below
Brazil ~$0.12-0.14 ~$0.10 ~20% below
**UK ~$0.35-0.40 ~$0.28 +100%+ above**
France ~$0.26 ~$0.18 +50% above
Canada ~$0.12 ~$0.10 ~30% below
Australia ~$0.25-0.30 ~$0.18 +50-75% above
rCYNotably, ChinarCOs electricity prices are approximately half those of the United States, reflecting the countryrCOs abundant coal resources, state-controlled utility sector, and strategic priority of maintaining industrial competitiveness.
In contrast, prices in Japan and Germany are significantly higher due to their unique energy circumstancesrCoJapanrCOs post-Fukushima reliance on imported LNG and GermanyrCOs ambitious renewable energy transition.rCY
Plenty more here:
<https://www.globalelectricity.org/electricity-prices-by-country/#toc_Countries_with_the_Lowest_Electricity_Prices>
On 08/08/2026 06:47, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1155fja$vgjn$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:35:54 on Fri, 7 Aug
2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 on Fri, 7 Aug
Then it's *definitely* a 'renewable power cut'.Prolly a 'renewable power' cutHas it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic transport...-aFares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares), trains
permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new fleet a compete
fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power outage at an over-
centralised signal box in Manchester disrupted trains across half
the country
for 24hrs.
Despite extensive reporting the cause of the underlying power cut has
not been revealed, nor the reason why it took 90 seconds to switch to
the backup supply. All we know is that the underlying power cut
affected many premises, not just the signal box.
The narrative of cheap clean reliable eco friendly energy must be upheld
by the renewable deniers, even when its utter bollocks.
In message <1155fja$vgjn$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:35:54 on Fri, 7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 on Fri, 7 AugProlly a 'renewable power' cut
2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:-aFares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares), trains
In message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri, 7 Aug >>>>> 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.
-aGBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic transport...
permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new fleet a compete
fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power outage at an over-centralised
signal box in Manchester disrupted trains across half the country
for 24hrs.
Despite extensive reporting the cause of the underlying power cut has not
been revealed, nor the reason why it took 90 seconds to switch to
the backup supply. All we know is that the underlying power cut affected many premises, not just the signal box.
On 08/08/2026 06:47, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1155fja$vgjn$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:35:54 on Fri, 7
Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 on Fri, 7Prolly a 'renewable power' cut
Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri,
7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.
-aFares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares), trains-aGBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic
transport...
permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new fleet a compete
fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power outage at an
over-centralised signal box in Manchester disrupted trains across
half the country for 24hrs.
Despite extensive reporting the cause of the underlying power cut
has not
Electricity distribution company SP Electricity North West said there
was an "incident" involving a high-voltage cable in Harpurhey,
north-east of Manchester city centre.
The failure affected "around 5,000 customers in the Manchester area",
with all power "fully restored within 90 seconds", a spokesperson
said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwy0d0wgy4xt
(It was showing on https://www.enwl.co.uk/power-cuts on the day, but
the initial reports mentioned Ardwick, not Harpurhey)
been revealed, nor the reason why it took 90 seconds to switch to
the backup supply. All we know is that the underlying power cut
affected many premises, not just the signal box.
Chris Wright, north-west route director at Network Rail, told the BBC
"we didn't experience a 90-second interruption," insisting its
systems were back online sooner.
But he said some of Network Rail's communications systems "did not
respond how we would have expected, and then needed reconfiguring and replacing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ekd5784k5o
On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 15:15:52 +0100
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/08/2026 06:47, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1155fja$vgjn$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:35:54 on Fri, 7
Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 on Fri, 7Prolly a 'renewable power' cut
Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri,
7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.
-aFares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares), trains-aGBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic
transport...
permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new fleet a compete
fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power outage at an
over-centralised signal box in Manchester disrupted trains across
half the country for 24hrs.
Despite extensive reporting the cause of the underlying power cut
has not
Electricity distribution company SP Electricity North West said there
was an "incident" involving a high-voltage cable in Harpurhey,
north-east of Manchester city centre.
The failure affected "around 5,000 customers in the Manchester area",
with all power "fully restored within 90 seconds", a spokesperson
said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwy0d0wgy4xt
(It was showing on https://www.enwl.co.uk/power-cuts on the day, but
the initial reports mentioned Ardwick, not Harpurhey)
been revealed, nor the reason why it took 90 seconds to switch to
the backup supply. All we know is that the underlying power cut
affected many premises, not just the signal box.
Chris Wright, north-west route director at Network Rail, told the BBC
"we didn't experience a 90-second interruption," insisting its
systems were back online sooner.
But he said some of Network Rail's communications systems "did not
respond how we would have expected, and then needed reconfiguring and
replacing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ekd5784k5o
Is it just me, or shouldn't a control centre of that size and importance
have backup power? A big UPS (or multiples) short-term, with an
auto-starting generator coming up within a minute or so. I visited the
BBC long-wave transmitter site some decades ago, where the backups were generators (plural) driven by huge marine diesel engines. OK, that was
for half a megaWatt or so.
On 08/08/2026 17:07, Joe wrote:
On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 15:15:52 +0100today its about providing the shoddiest service at the highest price and calling it 'modern' amd 'eco friendly'
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/08/2026 06:47, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1155fja$vgjn$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:35:54 on Fri, 7
Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 on Fri, 7Prolly a 'renewable power' cut
Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked: >>>>>>> On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:
-a-aFares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares), trains >>>>>> permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new fleet a competeIn message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri, >>>>>>>> 7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.-a-aGBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic
transport...
fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power outage at an
over-centralised signal box in Manchester disrupted trains across
half the country for 24hrs.
Despite extensive reporting the cause of the underlying power cut
has not
Electricity distribution company SP Electricity North West said there
was an "incident" involving a high-voltage cable in Harpurhey,
north-east of Manchester city centre.
The failure affected "around 5,000 customers in the Manchester area",
with all power "fully restored within 90 seconds", a spokesperson
said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwy0d0wgy4xt
(It was showing on https://www.enwl.co.uk/power-cuts on the day, but
the initial reports mentioned Ardwick, not Harpurhey)
been revealed, nor the reason why it took 90 seconds to switch to
the backup supply. All we know is that the underlying power cut
affected many premises, not just the signal box.
Chris Wright, north-west route director at Network Rail, told the BBC
"we didn't experience a 90-second interruption," insisting its
systems were back online sooner.
But he said some of Network Rail's communications systems "did not
respond how we would have expected, and then needed reconfiguring and
replacing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ekd5784k5o
Is it just me, or shouldn't a control centre of that size and importance
have backup power? A big UPS (or multiples) short-term, with an
auto-starting generator coming up within a minute or so. I visited the
BBC long-wave transmitter site some decades ago, where the backups were
generators (plural) driven by huge marine diesel engines. OK, that was
for half a megaWatt or so.
On 08/08/2026 18:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/08/2026 17:07, Joe wrote:at a guess, back-up power was specified, but rejected by the money people.
On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 15:15:52 +0100today its about providing the shoddiest service at the highest price
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/08/2026 06:47, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1155fja$vgjn$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:35:54 on Fri, 7
Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 on Fri, 7 >>>>>>> Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked: >>>>>>>> On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:Prolly a 'renewable power' cut
-a-aFares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares), trains >>>>>>> permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new fleet a compete >>>>>>> fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power outage at anIn message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri, >>>>>>>>> 7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.-a-aGBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic
transport...
over-centralised signal box in Manchester disrupted trains across >>>>>>> half the country for 24hrs.
Despite extensive reporting the cause of the underlying power cut
has not
Electricity distribution company SP Electricity North West said there
was an "incident" involving a high-voltage cable in Harpurhey,
north-east of Manchester city centre.
The failure affected "around 5,000 customers in the Manchester area",
with all power "fully restored within 90 seconds", a spokesperson
said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwy0d0wgy4xt
(It was showing on https://www.enwl.co.uk/power-cuts on the day, but
the initial reports mentioned Ardwick, not Harpurhey)
been revealed, nor the reason why it took 90 seconds to switch to
the backup supply. All we know is that the underlying power cut
affected many premises, not just the signal box.
Chris Wright, north-west route director at Network Rail, told the BBC
"we didn't experience a 90-second interruption," insisting its
systems were back online sooner.
But he said some of Network Rail's communications systems "did not
respond how we would have expected, and then needed reconfiguring and
replacing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ekd5784k5o
Is it just me, or shouldn't a control centre of that size and importance >>> have backup power? A big UPS (or multiples) short-term, with an
auto-starting generator coming up within a minute or so. I visited the
BBC long-wave transmitter site some decades ago, where the backups were
generators (plural) driven by huge marine diesel engines. OK, that was
for half a megaWatt or so.
and calling it 'modern' amd 'eco friendly'
On 08/08/2026 19:15, Charles Hope wrote:
On 08/08/2026 18:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/08/2026 17:07, Joe wrote:at a guess, back-up power was specified, but rejected by the money
On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 15:15:52 +0100today its about providing the shoddiest service at the highest price
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/08/2026 06:47, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1155fja$vgjn$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:35:54 on Fri, 7
Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked: >>>>>>> On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 on Fri, 7 >>>>>>>> Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked: >>>>>>>>> On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:Prolly a 'renewable power' cut
-a-aFares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares), trains >>>>>>>> permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new fleet a compete >>>>>>>> fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power outage at anIn message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri, >>>>>>>>>> 7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.-a-aGBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic
transport...
over-centralised signal box in Manchester disrupted trains across >>>>>>>> half the country for 24hrs.
Despite extensive reporting the cause of the underlying power cut
has not
Electricity distribution company SP Electricity North West said there >>>>> was an "incident" involving a high-voltage cable in Harpurhey,
north-east of Manchester city centre.
The failure affected "around 5,000 customers in the Manchester area", >>>>> with all power "fully restored within 90 seconds", a spokesperson
said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwy0d0wgy4xt
(It was showing on https://www.enwl.co.uk/power-cuts on the day, but >>>>> the initial reports mentioned Ardwick, not Harpurhey)
been revealed, nor the reason why it took 90 seconds to switch to
the backup supply. All we know is that the underlying power cut
affected many premises, not just the signal box.
Chris Wright, north-west route director at Network Rail, told the BBC >>>>> "we didn't experience a 90-second interruption," insisting its
systems were back online sooner.
But he said some of Network Rail's communications systems "did not
respond how we would have expected, and then needed reconfiguring and >>>>> replacing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ekd5784k5o
Is it just me, or shouldn't a control centre of that size and
importance
have backup power? A big UPS (or multiples) short-term, with an
auto-starting generator coming up within a minute or so. I visited the >>>> BBC long-wave transmitter site some decades ago, where the backups were >>>> generators (plural) driven by huge marine diesel engines. OK, that was >>>> for half a megaWatt or so.
and calling it 'modern' amd 'eco friendly'
people.
TNP is quite right - Nationalised the lot!
Capitalism and essential services simply do not mix.
On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 15:15:52 +0100
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
Electricity distribution company SP Electricity North West said there
was an "incident" involving a high-voltage cable in Harpurhey,
north-east of Manchester city centre.
The failure affected "around 5,000 customers in the Manchester area",
with all power "fully restored within 90 seconds", a spokesperson
said.
Chris Wright, north-west route director at Network Rail, told the BBC
"we didn't experience a 90-second interruption," insisting its
systems were back online sooner.
But he said some of Network Rail's communications systems "did not
respond how we would have expected, and then needed reconfiguring and
replacing"
Is it just me, or shouldn't a control centre of that size and importance
have backup power? A big UPS (or multiples) short-term, with an
auto-starting generator coming up within a minute or so. I visited the
On 08/08/2026 20:15, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 08/08/2026 19:15, Charles Hope wrote:Neither does socialism
On 08/08/2026 18:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/08/2026 17:07, Joe wrote:at a guess, back-up power was specified, but rejected by the money
On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 15:15:52 +0100today its about providing the shoddiest service at the highest price
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/08/2026 06:47, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1155fja$vgjn$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:35:54 on Fri, 7 >>>>>>> Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked: >>>>>>>> On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 on Fri, 7 >>>>>>>>> Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked: >>>>>>>>>> On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:Prolly a 'renewable power' cut
-a-aFares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares), trains >>>>>>>>> permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new fleet a compete >>>>>>>>> fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power outage at anIn message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri, >>>>>>>>>>> 7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>>>>>> remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.-a-aGBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic
transport...
over-centralised signal box in Manchester disrupted trains across >>>>>>>>> half the country for 24hrs.
Despite extensive reporting the cause of the underlying power cut >>>>>>> has not
Electricity distribution company SP Electricity North West said there >>>>>> was an "incident" involving a high-voltage cable in Harpurhey,
north-east of Manchester city centre.
The failure affected "around 5,000 customers in the Manchester area", >>>>>> with all power "fully restored within 90 seconds", a spokesperson
said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwy0d0wgy4xt
(It was showing on https://www.enwl.co.uk/power-cuts on the day, but >>>>>> the initial reports mentioned Ardwick, not Harpurhey)
been revealed, nor the reason why it took 90 seconds to switch to >>>>>>> the backup supply. All we know is that the underlying power cut
affected many premises, not just the signal box.
Chris Wright, north-west route director at Network Rail, told the BBC >>>>>> "we didn't experience a 90-second interruption," insisting its
systems were back online sooner.
But he said some of Network Rail's communications systems "did not >>>>>> respond how we would have expected, and then needed reconfiguring and >>>>>> replacing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ekd5784k5o
Is it just me, or shouldn't a control centre of that size and
importance
have backup power? A big UPS (or multiples) short-term, with an
auto-starting generator coming up within a minute or so. I visited the >>>>> BBC long-wave transmitter site some decades ago, where the backups
were
generators (plural) driven by huge marine diesel engines. OK, that was >>>>> for half a megaWatt or so.
and calling it 'modern' amd 'eco friendly'
people.
TNP is quite right - Nationalised the lot!
Capitalism and essential services simply do not mix.
The problem isn't the model, its the attitude of people who have grown
up with absolutely no sense of social responsibility.
wave a fiver at them and they install solar panels on their balconies
faster that you can say 'capitalist pig'.
On 08/08/2026 19:15, Charles Hope wrote:
On 08/08/2026 18:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/08/2026 17:07, Joe wrote:at a guess, back-up power was specified, but rejected by the money
On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 15:15:52 +0100today its about providing the shoddiest service at the highest price
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/08/2026 06:47, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1155fja$vgjn$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:35:54 on Fri, 7
Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked: >>>>>>> On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 on Fri, 7 >>>>>>>> Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked: >>>>>>>>> On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:Prolly a 'renewable power' cut
Fares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares), trains >>>>>>>> permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new fleet a compete >>>>>>>> fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power outage at anIn message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri, >>>>>>>>>> 7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.GBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic
transport...
over-centralised signal box in Manchester disrupted trains across >>>>>>>> half the country for 24hrs.
Despite extensive reporting the cause of the underlying power cut
has not
Electricity distribution company SP Electricity North West said there >>>>> was an "incident" involving a high-voltage cable in Harpurhey,
north-east of Manchester city centre.
The failure affected "around 5,000 customers in the Manchester area", >>>>> with all power "fully restored within 90 seconds", a spokesperson
said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwy0d0wgy4xt
(It was showing on https://www.enwl.co.uk/power-cuts on the day, but >>>>> the initial reports mentioned Ardwick, not Harpurhey)
been revealed, nor the reason why it took 90 seconds to switch to
the backup supply. All we know is that the underlying power cut
affected many premises, not just the signal box.
Chris Wright, north-west route director at Network Rail, told the BBC >>>>> "we didn't experience a 90-second interruption," insisting its
systems were back online sooner.
But he said some of Network Rail's communications systems "did not
respond how we would have expected, and then needed reconfiguring and >>>>> replacing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ekd5784k5o
Is it just me, or shouldn't a control centre of that size and
importance
have backup power? A big UPS (or multiples) short-term, with an
auto-starting generator coming up within a minute or so. I visited the >>>> BBC long-wave transmitter site some decades ago, where the backups
were
generators (plural) driven by huge marine diesel engines. OK, that was >>>> for half a megaWatt or so.
and calling it 'modern' amd 'eco friendly'
people.
TNP is quite right - Nationalised the lot!
Capitalism and essential services simply do not mix.
On 08/08/2026 20:15, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 08/08/2026 19:15, Charles Hope wrote:
On 08/08/2026 18:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/08/2026 17:07, Joe wrote:at a guess, back-up power was specified, but rejected by the money
On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 15:15:52 +0100today its about providing the shoddiest service at the highest
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/08/2026 06:47, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1155fja$vgjn$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:35:54 on Fri,
7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
remarked:
On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 onProlly a 'renewable power' cut
Fri, 7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:-a-aFares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares), >>>>>>>> trains permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new
In message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on >>>>>>>>>> Fri, 7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.-a-aGBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic
transport...
fleet a compete fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power
outage at an over-centralised signal box in Manchester
disrupted trains across half the country for 24hrs.
Despite extensive reporting the cause of the underlying power
cut has not
Electricity distribution company SP Electricity North West said
there was an "incident" involving a high-voltage cable in
Harpurhey, north-east of Manchester city centre.
The failure affected "around 5,000 customers in the Manchester
area", with all power "fully restored within 90 seconds", a
spokesperson said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwy0d0wgy4xt
(It was showing on https://www.enwl.co.uk/power-cuts on the
day, but the initial reports mentioned Ardwick, not Harpurhey)
been revealed, nor the reason why it took 90 seconds to switch
to the backup supply. All we know is that the underlying power
cut affected many premises, not just the signal box.
Chris Wright, north-west route director at Network Rail, told
the BBC "we didn't experience a 90-second interruption,"
insisting its systems were back online sooner.
But he said some of Network Rail's communications systems "did
not respond how we would have expected, and then needed
reconfiguring and replacing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ekd5784k5o
Is it just me, or shouldn't a control centre of that size and
importance
have backup power? A big UPS (or multiples) short-term, with an
auto-starting generator coming up within a minute or so. I
visited the BBC long-wave transmitter site some decades ago,
where the backups were generators (plural) driven by huge marine
diesel engines. OK, that was for half a megaWatt or so.
price and calling it 'modern' amd 'eco friendly'
people.
TNP is quite right - Nationalised the lot!Neither does socialism
Capitalism and essential services simply do not mix.
The problem isn't the model, its the attitude of people who have
grown up with absolutely no sense of social responsibility.
wave a fiver at them and they install solar panels on their balconies
faster that you can say 'capitalist pig'.
'redundant infrastructure' means sup[lying the same ting from two
cronies and having the paperwork to prove it
On 08/08/2026 17:07, Joe wrote:
On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 15:15:52 +0100
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
Electricity distribution company SP Electricity North West said
there was an "incident" involving a high-voltage cable in
Harpurhey, north-east of Manchester city centre.
The failure affected "around 5,000 customers in the Manchester
area", with all power "fully restored within 90 seconds", a
spokesperson said.
Chris Wright, north-west route director at Network Rail, told the
BBC "we didn't experience a 90-second interruption," insisting its
systems were back online sooner.
But he said some of Network Rail's communications systems "did not
respond how we would have expected, and then needed reconfiguring
and replacing"
Is it just me, or shouldn't a control centre of that size and
importance have backup power? A big UPS (or multiples) short-term,
with an auto-starting generator coming up within a minute or so. I
visited the
The distribution operator had a 90 second power failure, and the
site had systems back online sooner. That suggests to me they did
have an UPS or generator coming up within a minute or so
On Sun, 09 Aug 2026 05:15:28 +1000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
On 08/08/2026 19:15, Charles Hope wrote:
On 08/08/2026 18:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/08/2026 17:07, Joe wrote:at a guess, back-up power was specified, but rejected by the money
On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 15:15:52 +0100today its about providing the shoddiest service at the highest
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/08/2026 06:47, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1155fja$vgjn$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:35:54 on Fri,
7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
remarked:
On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 onProlly a 'renewable power' cut
Fri, 7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:Fares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares),
In message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on >>>>>>>>>> Fri, 7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.GBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic
transport...
trains permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new
fleet a compete fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power
outage at an over-centralised signal box in Manchester
disrupted trains across half the country for 24hrs.
Despite extensive reporting the cause of the underlying power
cut has not
Electricity distribution company SP Electricity North West said
there was an "incident" involving a high-voltage cable in
Harpurhey, north-east of Manchester city centre.
The failure affected "around 5,000 customers in the Manchester
area", with all power "fully restored within 90 seconds", a
spokesperson said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwy0d0wgy4xt
(It was showing on https://www.enwl.co.uk/power-cuts on the
day, but the initial reports mentioned Ardwick, not Harpurhey)
been revealed, nor the reason why it took 90 seconds to switch
to the backup supply. All we know is that the underlying power
cut affected many premises, not just the signal box.
Chris Wright, north-west route director at Network Rail, told
the BBC "we didn't experience a 90-second interruption,"
insisting its systems were back online sooner.
But he said some of Network Rail's communications systems "did
not respond how we would have expected, and then needed
reconfiguring and replacing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ekd5784k5o
Is it just me, or shouldn't a control centre of that size and
importance
have backup power? A big UPS (or multiples) short-term, with an
auto-starting generator coming up within a minute or so. I
visited the BBC long-wave transmitter site some decades ago,
where the backups were
generators (plural) driven by huge marine diesel engines. OK,
that was for half a megaWatt or so.
price and calling it 'modern' amd 'eco friendly'
people.
TNP is quite right - Nationalised the lot!
Capitalism and essential services simply do not mix.
We got a much better result when we privatised
our monopoly govt owned telco and you can now
get a very decent mobile service for just $10 a
month with gives you free calls and texts and
MMSs to any mobile or landline in the country
and a very decent amount of data which is all
anyone needs unless you watch movies on your
phone or tablet
Indeed. Anyone who lived through the Seventies as an adult will recall
that 'essential services' and 'state monopoly' don't mix either. Our Mr Burnham was a small child then.
On 08/08/2026 18:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Many years ago, I was working for a contractor at a new paint shop at a
On 08/08/2026 17:07, Joe wrote:at a guess, back-up power was specified, but rejected by the money
On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 15:15:52 +0100today its about providing the shoddiest service at the highest
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/08/2026 06:47, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1155fja$vgjn$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:35:54 on Fri, 7
Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
remarked:
On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 on Fri,Prolly a 'renewable power' cut
7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
remarked:
On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:-a-aFares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares),
In message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on
Fri, 7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.-a-aGBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic
transport...
trains permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new fleet
a compete fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power outage at an
over-centralised signal box in Manchester disrupted trains
across half the country for 24hrs.
Despite extensive reporting the cause of the underlying power cut
has not
Electricity distribution company SP Electricity North West said
there was an "incident" involving a high-voltage cable in
Harpurhey, north-east of Manchester city centre.
The failure affected "around 5,000 customers in the Manchester
area", with all power "fully restored within 90 seconds", a
spokesperson said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwy0d0wgy4xt
(It was showing on https://www.enwl.co.uk/power-cuts on the day,
but the initial reports mentioned Ardwick, not Harpurhey)
been revealed, nor the reason why it took 90 seconds to switch to
the backup supply. All we know is that the underlying power cut
affected many premises, not just the signal box.
Chris Wright, north-west route director at Network Rail, told the
BBC "we didn't experience a 90-second interruption," insisting its
systems were back online sooner.
But he said some of Network Rail's communications systems "did not
respond how we would have expected, and then needed reconfiguring
and replacing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ekd5784k5o
Is it just me, or shouldn't a control centre of that size and
importance have backup power? A big UPS (or multiples) short-term,
with an auto-starting generator coming up within a minute or so. I
visited the BBC long-wave transmitter site some decades ago, where
the backups were generators (plural) driven by huge marine diesel
engines. OK, that was for half a megaWatt or so.
price and calling it 'modern' amd 'eco friendly'
people.
like a house near here where the panels are installed on a north facing wall.
On 08/08/2026 20:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/08/2026 20:15, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 08/08/2026 19:15, Charles Hope wrote:Neither does socialism
On 08/08/2026 18:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/08/2026 17:07, Joe wrote:at a guess, back-up power was specified, but rejected by the money
On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 15:15:52 +0100 Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk>today its about providing the shoddiest service at the highest price >>>>> and calling it 'modern' amd 'eco friendly'
wrote:
On 08/08/2026 06:47, Roland Perry wrote:Is it just me, or shouldn't a control centre of that size and
In message <1155fja$vgjn$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:35:54 on Fri, 7 >>>>>>>> Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked: >>>>>>>>> On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 on Fri, >>>>>>>>>> 7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>Prolly a 'renewable power' cut
remarked:
On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:-a-aFares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares), >>>>>>>>>> -a-atrains
In message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on >>>>>>>>>>>> Fri,
7 Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>>>>>>> remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.-a-aGBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic
transport...
permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new fleet a
compete fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power outage at an >>>>>>>>>> over-centralised signal box in Manchester disrupted trains >>>>>>>>>> across half the country for 24hrs.
Despite extensive reporting the cause of the underlying power cut >>>>>>>> has not
Electricity distribution company SP Electricity North West said
there was an "incident" involving a high-voltage cable in
Harpurhey, north-east of Manchester city centre.
The failure affected "around 5,000 customers in the Manchester
area",
with all power "fully restored within 90 seconds", a spokesperson >>>>>>> said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwy0d0wgy4xt
(It was showing on https://www.enwl.co.uk/power-cuts on the day, >>>>>>> but the initial reports mentioned Ardwick, not Harpurhey)
been revealed, nor the reason why it took 90 seconds to switch to >>>>>>>> the backup supply. All we know is that the underlying power cut >>>>>>>> affected many premises, not just the signal box.
Chris Wright, north-west route director at Network Rail, told the >>>>>>> BBC "we didn't experience a 90-second interruption," insisting its >>>>>>> systems were back online sooner.
But he said some of Network Rail's communications systems "did not >>>>>>> respond how we would have expected, and then needed reconfiguring >>>>>>> and replacing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ekd5784k5o
importance have backup power? A big UPS (or multiples) short-term, >>>>>> with an auto-starting generator coming up within a minute or so. I >>>>>> visited the BBC long-wave transmitter site some decades ago, where >>>>>> the backups were generators (plural) driven by huge marine diesel
engines. OK, that was for half a megaWatt or so.
people.
TNP is quite right - Nationalised the lot! Capitalism and essential
services simply do not mix.
The problem isn't the model, its the attitude of people who have grown
up with absolutely no sense of social responsibility.
wave a fiver at them and they install solar panels on their balconies
faster that you can say 'capitalist pig'.
like a house near here where the panels are installed on a north facing
wall.
On 09/08/2026 09:09, Joe wrote:
Indeed. Anyone who lived through the Seventies as an adult will recall
that 'essential services' and 'state monopoly' don't mix either. Our Mr
Burnham was a small child then.
+1
While not defending the excesses of private companies people seem to
forget how bad the Nationalised and/or previous monopoly industries
were.-a Plus some of the industries that the state continued to have a
stake in continued to get worse.
I recently passed a house with 2 sets of solar panels, at right angles.
It reminded me of the lyric "Two men say they're Jesus, one of them must
be wrong".
With Ai these days, it's trivial to do a solar survey as a starting
point. Don't forget elevation too ...
Jethro <jethro_UK@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
The thing is, solar panels are now very cheap - cheaper than other kinds
I recently passed a house with 2 sets of solar panels, at right angles.
It reminded me of the lyric "Two men say they're Jesus, one of them
must be wrong".
of roofing. So it's now economic to install them in locations which
would once be overlooked as non-optimal. Even north facing panels work
- about half as efficient as south facing panels. If all you have is a
north facing roof then it can still be worth doing.
With Ai these days, it's trivial to do a solar survey as a starting
point. Don't forget elevation too ...
You don't need an AI - just go to:
https://globalsolaratlas.info/
select your location and add some details about your panels and their orientation. It will calculate based on the climate at your location. (something the AI almost certainly won't do)
If you have a spare mobile phone, and some sort of app, you can put one
out at various angles and elevations to gauge what works where you are. Apparently.
On 09/08/2026 13:58, Jethro wrote:
If you have a spare mobile phone, and some sort of app, you can put one
out at various angles and elevations to gauge what works where you are. Apparently.
Its a trivial calculation, but of course the prime requirement for
Believing In Green Ernery is a total inability to do SimpleSumsrao
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/08/2026 13:58, Jethro wrote:
If you have a spare mobile phone, and some sort of app, you can put one
out at various angles and elevations to gauge what works where you are.
Apparently.
Its a trivial calculation, but of course the prime requirement for
Believing In Green Ernery is a total inability to do SimpleSumsrao
Angles are simple, but the models include things like the temperature variation and amount of cloud cover at your location and when in the year it typically falls. Something that is beyond your SimpleSums.
Theo
On 09/08/2026 09:22, alan_m wrote:
[quoted text muted]The problem of 'natural monopolies' is almost insoluble:
On 09/08/2026 13:58, Jethro wrote:
If you have a spare mobile phone, and some sort of app, you can put one
out at various angles and elevations to gauge what works where you are.
Apparently.
Its a trivial calculation, but of course the prime requirement for
Believing In Green Ernery is a total inability to do SimpleSumsrao
It's about -u1000 per household, maybe more.So 3.4% is the actual figure for the most recent year; 4.3% appears to be aAnd both of them leave out all the 'socialised' costs of renewable
rounder, more general "typical year" framing NESO uses elsewhere. I'd trust
the 3.4% as the more precise, current number.
--
energy that end up appearing on your bills
That is the 'spreading' cost - it's given in the quote above, albeit in two >> different ways. Maybe -u30p.a./household.
You are being lied to. I wouldn;t mind, but I have to pay for your gullibility
If you want to dispute that figure fill your boots. And while you're at it >> factor in 'socialised', geo/political, economic, social, and environmental >> benefits.What benefits?
There is nothing a well maintained fleet of nuclear reactors could not
do that would not be made far far worse, more expensive and more environmentally destructive than by adding intermittent renewable energy.
I'd be quite happy to accept the charge of gullibility if you'd cite a decent source. Breath not held . . .
On 10/08/2026 04:15, RJH wrote:
I'd be quite happy to accept the charge of gullibility if you'd cite a decent
source. Breath not held . . .
And there in a nutshell we have it. No actual knowledge, just an appeal
to a 'decent source' which by definition, would be one that supports
your position.
One does not reason with a man whose position in not arrived at by
logic, experience or knowledge, but by faith...
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 6 Aug 2026 at 22:29:18 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/08/2026 22:00, RJH wrote:Of course.
On 6 Aug 2026 at 21:34:39 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:You simply know nothing about my situation at all
No. As has been explained, your bills are so high because you use so much >>>> energy.For heating a 5 bedroom house, cooking, lighting and doing 14,000 miles inyes. You and your renewable subsidies are why my bills are what they are. >>>>
my EV last year (charged at home), I paid under -u1 a day (thanks to solar
panels, EV tariff and home battery).
Obviously IrCOm doing something wrong.
IME* it'd be trivial to better than half your electricity consumption. Unless
you have outgoings that you're not sharing - heated pool for example.
Last month I used 458 units of electricity. More than usual because the
Aga is off for the summer
Not too bad - similar to someone I know who leaves halogen lights on 24/7. And
I'd guess if you're doining a fair bit of daily roasting/baking it could
easily add up to 15/day.
Most people use 200+ units a day .
Month - yes.
People with solar panels are paid 12p a unit for export.
For
electricity that is not worth 4p
Not sure of your point but that's nothing like what I get.
And which costs about 19p a unit to balance with gas.
Yes, so you keep saying - without figures or a source. I can't just take your
word on views and data that appears to be at least a decade out of date. This
is what AI has to say:
--
For 2024/25, NESO's (National Energy System Operator, the old National Grid >> ESO) total balancing costs were about -u2.7 billion, of which -u1.7-1.9 billion
was constraint payments rCo over 70% of the total. Roughly -u350-380 million of
that was paid to wind farms to curtail output, while replacing that lost wind
with gas-fired generation cost over -u1 billion (up from -u835 million the prior
year).
On household bills, balancing costs currently average about -u3/month (4.3% of
a typical bill). NESO projects this could rise to -u4-8 billion a year by 2030
as offshore wind capacity keeps outpacing the transmission grid's ability to >> move that power from Scotland to demand in the south rCo the bottleneck won't be
resolved until new subsea cables and pylon lines complete later in the decade.
--
Right now Wind is supplying 18% of demand and Solar 36%.
ThererCOs a 1500-mile wide High pressure area over the UK thatrCOll still be here when the sun sets tonight.
If we didnrCOt have gas, where would the electricity supply come from?
It isnrCOt even winter and Renewables arenrCOt cutting the mustard yet again.
Why oh why are we farting about with Unreliables?
By all means challenge that summary - but with decent sources.
Perhaps you should have used rCOdecent sourcesrCO rather than AI, so you go first.
Just repeating
your assertion doesn't make it more true - at least on Usenet.
And EDF charge me
Day rate: 31.98p per kWh
Night rate: 14.62p per kWh
Standing charge :54.15p per day
And claim that is the cheapest tariff
If you benefit from the night rate - possibly. 25p/kWh seems to be the flat >> rate - not sure, haven't checked recently.
You do seem to be an ideal candidate for solar . . .
On 07/08/2026 14:06, Spike wrote:
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 6 Aug 2026 at 22:29:18 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/08/2026 22:00, RJH wrote:Of course.
On 6 Aug 2026 at 21:34:39 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:You simply know nothing about my situation at all
For heating a 5 bedroom house, cooking, lighting and doing 14,000 miles inyes. You and your renewable subsidies are why my bills are what they are.
my EV last year (charged at home), I paid under -u1 a day (thanks to solar
panels, EV tariff and home battery).
Obviously IrCOm doing something wrong.
No. As has been explained, your bills are so high because you use so much >>>>> energy.
IME* it'd be trivial to better than half your electricity consumption. Unless
you have outgoings that you're not sharing - heated pool for example. >>>>>
Last month I used 458 units of electricity. More than usual because the >>>> Aga is off for the summer
Not too bad - similar to someone I know who leaves halogen lights on 24/7. And
I'd guess if you're doining a fair bit of daily roasting/baking it could >>> easily add up to 15/day.
Most people use 200+ units a day .
Month - yes.
People with solar panels are paid 12p a unit for export.
For
electricity that is not worth 4p
Not sure of your point but that's nothing like what I get.
And which costs about 19p a unit to balance with gas.
Yes, so you keep saying - without figures or a source. I can't just take your
word on views and data that appears to be at least a decade out of date. This
is what AI has to say:
--
For 2024/25, NESO's (National Energy System Operator, the old National Grid >>> ESO) total balancing costs were about -u2.7 billion, of which -u1.7-1.9 billion
was constraint payments rCo over 70% of the total. Roughly -u350-380 million of
that was paid to wind farms to curtail output, while replacing that lost wind
with gas-fired generation cost over -u1 billion (up from -u835 million the prior
year).
On household bills, balancing costs currently average about -u3/month (4.3% of
a typical bill). NESO projects this could rise to -u4-8 billion a year by 2030
as offshore wind capacity keeps outpacing the transmission grid's ability to
move that power from Scotland to demand in the south rCo the bottleneck won't be
resolved until new subsea cables and pylon lines complete later in the decade.
--
Right now Wind is supplying 18% of demand and Solar 36%.
ThererCOs a 1500-mile wide High pressure area over the UK thatrCOll still be >> here when the sun sets tonight.
If we didnrCOt have gas, where would the electricity supply come from?
It isnrCOt even winter and Renewables arenrCOt cutting the mustard yet again.
Why oh why are we farting about with Unreliables?
By all means challenge that summary - but with decent sources.
Perhaps you should have used rCOdecent sourcesrCO rather than AI, so you go >> first.
Just repeating
your assertion doesn't make it more true - at least on Usenet.
And EDF charge me
Day rate: 31.98p per kWh
Night rate: 14.62p per kWh
Standing charge :54.15p per day
And claim that is the cheapest tariff
If you benefit from the night rate - possibly. 25p/kWh seems to be the flat >>> rate - not sure, haven't checked recently.
You do seem to be an ideal candidate for solar . . .
So you're suggesting he invests -u8-10k for a solar/battery installation.That's a lot of effort to save a paltry amount, he's only paying circa -u175 a month including around -u15 a month standing charges which he won't save at all.
Any solar savings will mainly come in summer months, so unless he has
money sitting idle it's hardly worth it.
I had a quote from a reputable local firm for solar+battery and would
not have had much change from -u10k, I would be long dead before the
costs would be recouped.
Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 07/08/2026 14:06, Spike wrote:
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 6 Aug 2026 at 22:29:18 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/08/2026 22:00, RJH wrote:Of course.
On 6 Aug 2026 at 21:34:39 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:You simply know nothing about my situation at all
For heating a 5 bedroom house, cooking, lighting and doing 14,000 miles inyes. You and your renewable subsidies are why my bills are what they are.
my EV last year (charged at home), I paid under -u1 a day (thanks to solar
panels, EV tariff and home battery).
Obviously IrCOm doing something wrong.
No. As has been explained, your bills are so high because you use so much
energy.
IME* it'd be trivial to better than half your electricity consumption. Unless
you have outgoings that you're not sharing - heated pool for example. >>>>>>
Last month I used 458 units of electricity. More than usual because the >>>>> Aga is off for the summer
Not too bad - similar to someone I know who leaves halogen lights on 24/7. And
I'd guess if you're doining a fair bit of daily roasting/baking it could >>>> easily add up to 15/day.
Most people use 200+ units a day .
Month - yes.
People with solar panels are paid 12p a unit for export.
For
electricity that is not worth 4p
Not sure of your point but that's nothing like what I get.
And which costs about 19p a unit to balance with gas.
Yes, so you keep saying - without figures or a source. I can't just take your
word on views and data that appears to be at least a decade out of date. This
is what AI has to say:
--
For 2024/25, NESO's (National Energy System Operator, the old National Grid
ESO) total balancing costs were about -u2.7 billion, of which -u1.7-1.9 billion
was constraint payments rCo over 70% of the total. Roughly -u350-380 million of
that was paid to wind farms to curtail output, while replacing that lost wind
with gas-fired generation cost over -u1 billion (up from -u835 million the prior
year).
On household bills, balancing costs currently average about -u3/month (4.3% of
a typical bill). NESO projects this could rise to -u4-8 billion a year by 2030
as offshore wind capacity keeps outpacing the transmission grid's ability to
move that power from Scotland to demand in the south rCo the bottleneck won't be
resolved until new subsea cables and pylon lines complete later in the decade.
--
Right now Wind is supplying 18% of demand and Solar 36%.
ThererCOs a 1500-mile wide High pressure area over the UK thatrCOll still be
here when the sun sets tonight.
If we didnrCOt have gas, where would the electricity supply come from?
It isnrCOt even winter and Renewables arenrCOt cutting the mustard yet again.
Why oh why are we farting about with Unreliables?
By all means challenge that summary - but with decent sources.
Perhaps you should have used rCOdecent sourcesrCO rather than AI, so you go >>> first.
Just repeating
your assertion doesn't make it more true - at least on Usenet.
And EDF charge me
Day rate: 31.98p per kWh
Night rate: 14.62p per kWh
Standing charge :54.15p per day
And claim that is the cheapest tariff
If you benefit from the night rate - possibly. 25p/kWh seems to be the flat
rate - not sure, haven't checked recently.
You do seem to be an ideal candidate for solar . . .
So you're suggesting he invests -u8-10k for a solar/battery
installation.That's a lot of effort to save a paltry amount, he's only
paying circa -u175 a month including around -u15 a month standing charges
which he won't save at all.
Any solar savings will mainly come in summer months, so unless he has
money sitting idle it's hardly worth it.
I had a quote from a reputable local firm for solar+battery and would
not have had much change from -u10k, I would be long dead before the
costs would be recouped.
I think yourCOre replying to TNP, but IrCOd have to say I agree with you.
What people donrCOt seem to take into account is the money lost from investments, say 4% in a cash ISA or 10% in a roboinvested ISA; greater returns are available at greater risk.
I costed a heat pump, insulation, solar, battery, and inverter at -u30k. The lost investment would be -u1200 pa for the cash ISA or -u3000pa for the roboinvestment.
The latter is currently more than my total energy expenditure, so
undertaking that change would make me a loss, compounded by the electricity costs which also need to be taken into account.
On 10/08/2026 11:51, Spike wrote:
Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 07/08/2026 14:06, Spike wrote:
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 6 Aug 2026 at 22:29:18 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/08/2026 22:00, RJH wrote:Of course.
On 6 Aug 2026 at 21:34:39 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:You simply know nothing about my situation at all
For heating a 5 bedroom house, cooking, lighting and doingyes. You and your renewable subsidies are why my bills are
14,000 miles in my EV last year (charged at home), I paid
under -u1 a day (thanks to solar panels, EV tariff and home
battery).
Obviously IrCOm doing something wrong.
what they are.
No. As has been explained, your bills are so high because you
use so much energy.
IME* it'd be trivial to better than half your electricity
consumption. Unless you have outgoings that you're not sharing
- heated pool for example.
Last month I used 458 units of electricity. More than usual
because the Aga is off for the summer
Not too bad - similar to someone I know who leaves halogen
lights on 24/7. And I'd guess if you're doining a fair bit of
daily roasting/baking it could easily add up to 15/day.
Most people use 200+ units a day .
Month - yes.
People with solar panels are paid 12p a unit for export.
For
electricity that is not worth 4p
Not sure of your point but that's nothing like what I get.
And which costs about 19p a unit to balance with gas.
Yes, so you keep saying - without figures or a source. I can't
just take your word on views and data that appears to be at
least a decade out of date. This is what AI has to say:
--
For 2024/25, NESO's (National Energy System Operator, the old
National Grid ESO) total balancing costs were about -u2.7
billion, of which -u1.7-1.9 billion was constraint payments rCo
over 70% of the total. Roughly -u350-380 million of that was paid
to wind farms to curtail output, while replacing that lost wind
with gas-fired generation cost over -u1 billion (up from -u835
million the prior year).
On household bills, balancing costs currently average about
-u3/month (4.3% of a typical bill). NESO projects this could rise
to -u4-8 billion a year by 2030 as offshore wind capacity keeps
outpacing the transmission grid's ability to move that power
from Scotland to demand in the south rCo the bottleneck won't be
resolved until new subsea cables and pylon lines complete later
in the decade. --
Right now Wind is supplying 18% of demand and Solar 36%.
ThererCOs a 1500-mile wide High pressure area over the UK thatrCOll
still be here when the sun sets tonight.
If we didnrCOt have gas, where would the electricity supply come
from?
It isnrCOt even winter and Renewables arenrCOt cutting the mustard
yet again.
Why oh why are we farting about with Unreliables?
By all means challenge that summary - but with decent sources.
Perhaps you should have used rCOdecent sourcesrCO rather than AI, so
you go first.
Just repeating
your assertion doesn't make it more true - at least on Usenet.
And EDF charge me
Day rate: 31.98p per kWh
Night rate: 14.62p per kWh
Standing charge :54.15p per day
And claim that is the cheapest tariff
If you benefit from the night rate - possibly. 25p/kWh seems to
be the flat rate - not sure, haven't checked recently.
You do seem to be an ideal candidate for solar . . .
So you're suggesting he invests -u8-10k for a solar/battery
installation.That's a lot of effort to save a paltry amount, he's
only paying circa -u175 a month including around -u15 a month
standing charges which he won't save at all.
Any solar savings will mainly come in summer months, so unless he
has money sitting idle it's hardly worth it.
I had a quote from a reputable local firm for solar+battery and
would not have had much change from -u10k, I would be long dead
before the costs would be recouped.
I think yourCOre replying to TNP, but IrCOd have to say I agree withYup. I costed out both a heat pump AND separtely batteries to store
you.
cheap rate leccy and run the house by day.
Completely not worth it.
I average 7-15% p.a. ROI on my invested money With fairly low risk
What people donrCOt seem to take into account is the money lost from investments, say 4% in a cash ISA or 10% in a roboinvested ISA;
greater returns are available at greater risk.
I costed a heat pump, insulation, solar, battery, and inverter at
-u30k. The lost investment would be -u1200 pa for the cash ISA or
-u3000pa for the roboinvestment.
The latter is currently more than my total energy expenditure, so undertaking that change would make me a loss, compounded by the
electricity costs which also need to be taken into account.
Exactly.
meanwhile, you have to larf:
From the Daily trashograph...
"Octopus Energy is asking customers to delay using washing machines, dishwashers and other plug-in devices between 6pm and 8pm on
Wednesday, when the Moon is expected to block up to 95pc of sunlight.
The eclipse will send solar generation plunging just as electricity
demand begins to rise as millions of people return home from work.
The slump could knock out as much as 1.3 gigawatts (GW) of supply,
according to the National Energy System Operator (Neso), which runs BritainrCOs electricity grid. That is enough electricity to power
roughly half a million homes."
What will it be like in places where the coverage of the sun is 100% ?
Davey wrote:
What will it be like in places where the coverage of the sun is 100% ?
From what I remember of the last "proper" eclipse, even if 5% of the
sun makes it past, it still feels fairly light? You'll probably get
weird "nibble" shaped shadows e.g. from leaves under trees ...
Andy Burns wrote:
From what I remember of the last "proper" eclipse, even if 5% of the
sun makes it past, it still feels fairly light? You'll probably get
weird "nibble" shaped shadows e.g. from leaves under trees ...
I remember it as pretty dark! East Kent.
On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 15:02:56 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
Davey wrote:
What will it be like in places where the coverage of the sun is 100% ?
From what I remember of the last "proper" eclipse, even if 5% of the
sun makes it past, it still feels fairly light? You'll probably get
weird "nibble" shaped shadows e.g. from leaves under trees ...
I remember it as pretty dark! East Kent.
In message <18ca76f6c58a3fba$154259$796307$46d50c60@news.newsdemon.com>,
Bob Eager <throwaway0008@eager.cx> writes
On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 15:02:56 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
Davey wrote:
What will it be like in places where the coverage of the sun is 100%
?
From what I remember of the last "proper" eclipse, even if 5% of the
sun makes it past, it still feels fairly light? You'll probably get
weird "nibble" shaped shadows e.g. from leaves under trees ...
I remember it as pretty dark! East Kent.
Didn't make much difference here, it was a heavily overcast day, so it
went from not very light, to a bit less light.
We'd walked out of the office to "watch" it (not literally), and walked
back in thinking "was that it ?"
On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 15:02:56 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
Davey wrote:
What will it be like in places where the coverage of the sun is 100% ?
From what I remember of the last "proper" eclipse, even if 5% of the
sun makes it past, it still feels fairly light? You'll probably get
weird "nibble" shaped shadows e.g. from leaves under trees ...
I remember it as pretty dark! East Kent.
I was just north of Paris, so I got the full eclipse. My memory is thatPlan on going abroad then, the next UK one is 2090.
it was only impressive at full eclipse. I would like to see another full eclipse
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your
energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect on
or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
Pancho wrote:
I was just north of Paris, so I got the full eclipse. My memory isPlan on going abroad then, the next UK one is 2090.
that it was only impressive at full eclipse. I would like to see
another full eclipse
In message <1155fja$vgjn$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:35:54 on Fri, 7 Aug
2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 on Fri, 7 Aug >>>2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:Prolly a 'renewable power' cut
On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:Fares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares), trains >>>permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new fleet a compete
In message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri, 7 >>>>>Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.
aGBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic transport...
fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power outage at an
over-centralised signal box in Manchester disrupted trains across
half the country
for 24hrs.
Despite extensive reporting the cause of the underlying power cut has
not been revealed, nor the reason why it took 90 seconds to switch to
the backup supply. All we know is that the underlying power cut
affected many premises, not just the signal box.
And that's just the most recent.
On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 12:21:58 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
From the Daily trashograph...
"Octopus Energy is asking customers to delay using washing machines,
dishwashers and other plug-in devices between 6pm and 8pm on
Wednesday, when the Moon is expected to block up to 95pc of sunlight.
The eclipse will send solar generation plunging just as electricity
demand begins to rise as millions of people return home from work.
The slump could knock out as much as 1.3 gigawatts (GW) of supply,
according to the National Energy System Operator (Neso), which runs
BritainrCOs electricity grid. That is enough electricity to power
roughly half a million homes."
Not to worry, the wind turbines will take care of it!!
What will it be like in places where the coverage of the sun is 100% ?
Join Octoplus: our free rewards programme for customers with a smartIf there was any serious concern that a partial eclipse is going to put
meter and Direct Debit with us.
3. Join Saving Sessions from the Octoplus section of your online account.
4. Opt into the Eclipse Power Down session.
What should I use less electricity during the eclipse?
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your
energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect on
or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
On Wed, 05 Aug 2026 13:37:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your
energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your
energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect on >> or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
Actually, I have only just learned that the increase in spending on Net
Zero could not have happened without Brexit.
It is a genuine Brexit Benefit. We have found one.
Whether it was worth it is another matter. But it is a clear benefit. Something we could not have done inside the EU.
https://youtu.be/HRdJXNaJGL8
On Wed, 05 Aug 2026 13:37:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:The other obvious benefit is being able to do what
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your
energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your
energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect on >> or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
Actually, I have only just learned that the increase in spending on Net
Zero could not have happened without Brexit.
It is a genuine Brexit Benefit. We have found one.
Whether it was worth it is another matter. But it is a clear benefit. Something we could not have done inside the EU.--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
https://youtu.be/HRdJXNaJGL8
On Wed, 05 Aug 2026 13:37:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your
energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your
energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect on >> or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
Actually, I have only just learned that the increase in spending on Net
Zero could not have happened without Brexit.
On 08/08/2026 06:47, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1155fja$vgjn$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:35:54 on Fri, 7 Aug >>2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 on Fri, 7
Aug
Prolly a 'renewable power' cutHas it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic transport...aFares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares), trains >>>>permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new fleet a compete
fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power outage at an
over-centralised signal box in Manchester disrupted trains across >>>>half the country
for 24hrs.
Despite extensive reporting the cause of the underlying power cutThen it's *definitely* a 'renewable power cut'.
has not been revealed, nor the reason why it took 90 seconds to
switch to the backup supply. All we know is that the underlying power
cut affected many premises, not just the signal box.
The narrative of cheap clean reliable eco friendly energy must be
upheld by the renewable deniers, even when its utter bollocks.
On 08/08/2026 06:40, Roland Perry wrote:
I was on a bus yesterday, and apart from the impression that the
wheels were bolted direct onto the chassis, it was OK, and the driver >>cheerful.
But that is down to individuals. I know of rural bus services where
drivers will make "unofficial" stops outside peoples houses rather than >making them walk quarter of a mile to where the company have placed the
bus stop. I have also seen Urban drivers deliberately not stop at a bus >stop.
On 08/08/2026 06:47, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1155fja$vgjn$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:35:54 on Fri, 7 Aug >>2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On 07/08/2026 18:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154tnn$p7hl$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:31:03 on Fri, 7
Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
On 07/08/2026 15:54, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1154l81$m47b$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:09 on Fri, 7 >>>>>>Aug 2026, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked: >>>>>>
GPO, BR, disasters when nationalised.
aGBR a disaster now re-nationalised.
Has it been? I can't say I noticed. Public schmublic transport...
aFares increased by stealth (removing the cheaper fares), trains >>>>permanently cancelled to reduce costs, EMR's new fleet a compete >>>>fiasco, and yesterday a 90 second power outage at anProlly a 'renewable power' cut
over-centralised signal box in Manchester disrupted trains across >>>>half the country for 24hrs.
Despite extensive reporting the cause of the underlying power cut
has not
Electricity distribution company SP Electricity North West said there
was an "incident" involving a high-voltage cable in Harpurhey,
north-east of Manchester city centre.
The failure affected "around 5,000 customers in the Manchester area",
with all power "fully restored within 90 seconds", a spokesperson said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwy0d0wgy4xt
(It was showing on https://www.enwl.co.uk/power-cuts on the day, but
the initial reports mentioned Ardwick, not Harpurhey)
been revealed, nor the reason why it took 90 seconds to switch to
the backup supply. All we know is that the underlying power cut
affected many premises, not just the signal box.
Chris Wright, north-west route director at Network Rail, told the BBC
"we didn't experience a 90-second interruption," insisting its systems
were back online sooner.
But he said some of Network Rail's communications systems "did not
respond how we would have expected, and then needed reconfiguring and >replacing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ekd5784k5o
While not defending the excesses of private companies people seem to
forget how bad the Nationalised and/or previous monopoly industries
were.
In message <ndqrmnFhgjiU1@mid.individual.net>, at 09:22:48 on Sun, 9 Aug 2026, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
While not defending the excesses of private companies people seem to
forget how bad the Nationalised and/or previous monopoly industries
were.
Indeed. For example if previously state-run BT said they'd install a
phone line within 60 days, you could rely on them turning up on day 59.
In message <ndqrmnFhgjiU1@mid.individual.net>, at 09:22:48 on Sun, 9 Aug 2026, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
While not defending the excesses of private companies people seem to
forget how bad the Nationalised and/or previous monopoly industries were.
Indeed. For example if previously state-run BT said they'd install a
phone line within 60 days, you could rely on them turning up on day 59.
On 11/08/2026 17:59, Jethro wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2026 13:37:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:I simply think that is untrue.
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your >>> energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your
energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect
on or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
Actually, I have only just learned that the increase in spending on Net
Zero could not have happened without Brexit.
EU is pursuing similar routes
However, you do rather hint at a slight oddity. If the UK and EU are independently pursuing the same goals, then the suggestion is they must
be worthwhile ?
On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 18:42:17 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/08/2026 17:59, Jethro wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2026 13:37:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:I simply think that is untrue.
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your >>> energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your >>> energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect >>> on or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
Actually, I have only just learned that the increase in spending on Net
Zero could not have happened without Brexit.
EU is pursuing similar routes
Except they aren't allowed to spend as much money as the UK subsidizing energy companies because of their pesky rules.
However, you do rather hint at a slight oddity. If the UK and EU are independently pursuing the same goals, then the suggestion is they must
be worthwhile ?
On 11/08/2026 17:59, Jethro wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2026 13:37:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your >>> energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your
energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect on >>> or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
Actually, I have only just learned that the increase in spending on Net
Zero could not have happened without Brexit.
It is a genuine Brexit Benefit. We have found one.
Whether it was worth it is another matter. But it is a clear benefit.
Something we could not have done inside the EU.
and another one is VAT on School Fees.
https://youtu.be/HRdJXNaJGL8
Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
On 11/08/2026 17:59, Jethro wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2026 13:37:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers
your energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're
increasing your energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This
change will take effect on or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
Actually, I have only just learned that the increase in spending
on Net Zero could not have happened without Brexit.
It is a genuine Brexit Benefit. We have found one.
Whether it was worth it is another matter. But it is a clear
benefit. Something we could not have done inside the EU.
and another one is VAT on School Fees.
https://youtu.be/HRdJXNaJGL8
It sounds as if the current Labour government is well on course to
run out of other peoplerCOs money to spend.
On Wed, 05 Aug 2026 13:37:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your
energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your
energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect on >> or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
Actually, I have only just learned that the increase in spending on Net
Zero could not have happened without Brexit.
It is a genuine Brexit Benefit. We have found one.
On 11 Aug 2026 at 17:59:46 BST, Jethro wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2026 13:37:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your >>> energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your
energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect on >>> or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
Actually, I have only just learned that the increase in spending on Net
Zero could not have happened without Brexit.
It is a genuine Brexit Benefit. We have found one.
Brexit. The gift that keeps giving.
:-)
On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 18:42:17 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Or alternatively, that neither are.
On 11/08/2026 17:59, Jethro wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2026 13:37:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:I simply think that is untrue.
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers
your energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're
increasing your energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This
change will take effect on or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
Actually, I have only just learned that the increase in spending
on Net Zero could not have happened without Brexit.
EU is pursuing similar routes
Except they aren't allowed to spend as much money as the UK
subsidizing energy companies because of their pesky rules.
However, you do rather hint at a slight oddity. If the UK and EU are independently pursuing the same goals, then the suggestion is they
must be worthwhile ?
Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
On 11/08/2026 17:59, Jethro wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2026 13:37:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers
your energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're
increasing your energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This
change will take effect on or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
Actually, I have only just learned that the increase in spending
on Net Zero could not have happened without Brexit.
It is a genuine Brexit Benefit. We have found one.
Whether it was worth it is another matter. But it is a clear
benefit. Something we could not have done inside the EU.
and another one is VAT on School Fees.
https://youtu.be/HRdJXNaJGL8
It sounds as if the current Labour government is well on course to
run out of other peoplerCOs money to spend.
Apart from the relatively small number of natural disasters, nearly allAmen
the problems in the world are caused by governments.
In message <ndoa4gF56pbU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:10:39 on Sat, 8 Aug 2026, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On 08/08/2026 06:40, Roland Perry wrote:
I was on a bus yesterday, and apart from the impression that the
wheels were bolted direct onto the chassis, it was OK, and the driver
cheerful.
But that is down to individuals. I know of rural bus services where
drivers will make "unofficial" stops outside peoples houses rather than
making them walk quarter of a mile to where the company have placed the
bus stop. I have also seen Urban drivers deliberately not stop at a bus
stop.
The worst behaviour from urban bus drivers is when a stop serves many
routes, and the one you want simply flies past a bus on a different
route that is currently boarding.
On 12 Aug 2026 11:49:10 GMT
Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
On 11/08/2026 17:59, Jethro wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2026 13:37:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers
your energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're
increasing your energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This
change will take effect on or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
Actually, I have only just learned that the increase in spending
on Net Zero could not have happened without Brexit.
It is a genuine Brexit Benefit. We have found one.
Whether it was worth it is another matter. But it is a clear
benefit. Something we could not have done inside the EU.
and another one is VAT on School Fees.
https://youtu.be/HRdJXNaJGL8
It sounds as if the current Labour government is well on course to
run out of other peoplerCOs money to spend.
I seem to have heard that before somewhere.................
On 12 Aug 2026 11:49:10 GMT
Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
On 11/08/2026 17:59, Jethro wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2026 13:37:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers
your energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're
increasing your energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This
change will take effect on or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
Actually, I have only just learned that the increase in spending
on Net Zero could not have happened without Brexit.
It is a genuine Brexit Benefit. We have found one.
Whether it was worth it is another matter. But it is a clear
benefit. Something we could not have done inside the EU.
and another one is VAT on School Fees.
https://youtu.be/HRdJXNaJGL8
It sounds as if the current Labour government is well on course to
run out of other peoplerCOs money to spend.
Gordon Brown did that. The debt he began to run up will never, *can*
never, be repaid and will ultimately be solved by hyperinflation.
On 12 Aug 2026 at 08:53:36 BST, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:
In message <ndoa4gF56pbU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:10:39 on Sat,
8 Aug 2026, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On 08/08/2026 06:40, Roland Perry wrote:
I was on a bus yesterday, and apart from the impression that the
wheels were bolted direct onto the chassis, it was OK, and the
driver cheerful.
But that is down to individuals. I know of rural bus services where
drivers will make "unofficial" stops outside peoples houses rather
than making them walk quarter of a mile to where the company have
placed the bus stop. I have also seen Urban drivers deliberately
not stop at a bus stop.
The worst behaviour from urban bus drivers is when a stop serves
many routes, and the one you want simply flies past a bus on a
different route that is currently boarding.
Equalled by a completely empty bus driving past the already full bus
on the same route at the bus stop.
On 12 Aug 2026 at 16:57:54 BST, "Joe" <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
On 12 Aug 2026 11:49:10 GMT
Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
On 11/08/2026 17:59, Jethro wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2026 13:37:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it
covers your energy use and any account balance. As a result,
we're increasing your energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61.
This change will take effect on or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
Actually, I have only just learned that the increase in spending
on Net Zero could not have happened without Brexit.
It is a genuine Brexit Benefit. We have found one.
Whether it was worth it is another matter. But it is a clear
benefit. Something we could not have done inside the EU.
and another one is VAT on School Fees.
https://youtu.be/HRdJXNaJGL8
It sounds as if the current Labour government is well on course to
run out of other peoplerCOs money to spend.
Gordon Brown did that. The debt he began to run up will never, *can*
never, be repaid and will ultimately be solved by hyperinflation.
Suggestions that there might have been a worldwide banking collapse
involved are clearly just Marxist propaganda.
On 12 Aug 2026 at 08:53:36 BST, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
In message <ndoa4gF56pbU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:10:39 on Sat, 8 Aug
2026, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
On 08/08/2026 06:40, Roland Perry wrote:
I was on a bus yesterday, and apart from the impression that the
wheels were bolted direct onto the chassis, it was OK, and the driver >>>> cheerful.
But that is down to individuals. I know of rural bus services where
drivers will make "unofficial" stops outside peoples houses rather than
making them walk quarter of a mile to where the company have placed the
bus stop. I have also seen Urban drivers deliberately not stop at a bus
stop.
The worst behaviour from urban bus drivers is when a stop serves many
routes, and the one you want simply flies past a bus on a different
route that is currently boarding.
Equalled by a completely empty bus driving past the already full bus on the same route at the bus stop.
On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 18:42:17 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/08/2026 17:59, Jethro wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2026 13:37:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:I simply think that is untrue.
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers your >>>> energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're increasing your >>>> energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This change will take effect >>>> on or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
Actually, I have only just learned that the increase in spending on Net
Zero could not have happened without Brexit.
EU is pursuing similar routes
Except they aren't allowed to spend as much money as the UK subsidizing energy companies because of their pesky rules.
However, you do rather hint at a slight oddity. If the UK and EU are independently pursuing the same goals, then the suggestion is they must--
be worthwhile ?
On 12 Aug 2026 at 12:53:55 BST, "Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
On 12 Aug 2026 11:49:10 GMT
Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
On 11/08/2026 17:59, Jethro wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2026 13:37:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"WerCOve recently reviewed your Direct Debit to make sure it covers >>>>>> your energy use and any account balance. As a result, we're
increasing your energy payments from -u146.80 to -u174.61. This
change will take effect on or around 23 August 2026"
Thank you Milibrain.
Actually, I have only just learned that the increase in spending
on Net Zero could not have happened without Brexit.
It is a genuine Brexit Benefit. We have found one.
Whether it was worth it is another matter. But it is a clear
benefit. Something we could not have done inside the EU.
and another one is VAT on School Fees.
https://youtu.be/HRdJXNaJGL8
It sounds as if the current Labour government is well on course to
run out of other peoplerCOs money to spend.
I seem to have heard that before somewhere.................
Superior parties spend their own money?
On 12/08/2026 10:26, Jethro wrote:
[quoted text muted]
Now there you have a genuine "Brexit Benefit".
The UK wouldn't be able to subsidise renewable energy initiatives if we
were still in the EU.
Isn't it strange that people like Farage are _not_ shouting about this
Brexit success?>
| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 74 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 50:10:51 |
| Calls: | 1,100 |
| Files: | 1,339 |
| Messages: | 275,859 |