• You couldn't make it up...

    From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 12:26:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    From the DT.,..


    "Gas-powered plants across the UK have been ordered to fire up
    production as soaring temperatures trigger a slump in solar energy.

    The National Energy System Operator (Neso) issued a rare summer power
    supply warning overnight as the country braces for temperatures near 40C
    on Wednesday and Thursday.

    Gas plants have been urged to ramp up output to deal with high levels of demand expected on Wednesday night as homes and offices turn up the air conditioning to endure the heatwave.

    The notice comes as soaring temperatures make BritainrCOs solar farms less efficient, putting further strain on the power grid. Solar panel
    efficiency typically drops by 0.3pc to 0.5pc for every degree that a
    panelrCOs temperature rises above 25C.

    Noemie Baud, from energy consultancy Montel, said: rCLHigher demand for
    air conditioning and cooling systems is contributing to the increase [in
    power demand], while lower outputs from solar and gas generation means
    more conventional generation is required to meet demand, pushing up prices.rCY

    Data from the UKrCOs grid network showed gas generation jumped from around eight gigawatts at 12pm on Tuesday, to more than 17 gigawatts overnight.

    More than half of BritainrCOs power needs were being supplied by gas on Wednesday morning, with wind generating around 12pc and solar less than
    10pc.

    rCLOur forecasts are showing tight margins on the electricity system for tomorrow evening,rCY Neso said on Tuesday night. rCLThis is due to the
    impact of extremely high temperatures affecting Great Britain and the Continent and low wind.rCY
    Energy shortfall

    Britain was facing a 1.9 gigawatt shortfall in its rCLmarginrCY for
    Wednesday night rCo the buffer between available power generation and
    total consumer demand rCo according to an alert at 9pm on Tuesday from
    Elexon, the company that manages the electricity trades that keep
    BritainrCOs lights on.

    The alert signals to BritainrCOs gas power plants and other suppliers to
    start generating more energy to meet the expected demand and is not a
    sign that blackouts are imminent.

    A spokesman for Neso said: rCLWe are asking market participants to make
    any additional generation capacity they may have available.

    rCLThe Electricity Margin Notice does not mean electricity supply is at risk.rCY

    Such warnings are usually issued during winter when demand for energy is
    at its highest. However, households and businesses are expected to ramp
    up power usage for air conditioning and other means of keeping cool,
    after the Met Office issued a red weather warning.

    BritainrCOs energy shortage has been compounded by relatively low wind generation across the country and continental Europe.

    Meanwhile, imports of French energy have fallen by 48pc since Sunday.
    France has been forced to switch off a nuclear power station as high
    river temperatures mean the water is too warm to safely cool reactors.

    In a worrying sign for consumers, energy market intelligence firm Montel
    said the decline in renewable efficiency had pushed up wholesale power
    prices.

    Prices climbed to -u248.39 per megawatt hour at the evening peak on
    Tuesday, an increase of more than 75pc compared with the same time a
    week earlier."
    --
    New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
    the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
    someone else's pocket.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From nospam@nospam@please.invalid (AnthonyL) to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 12:22:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:26:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    From the DT.,..


    "Gas-powered plants across the UK have been ordered to fire up
    production as soaring temperatures trigger a slump in solar energy.

    <snipped>

    Regardless your site is showing the solar (however that is measured)
    is the highest producer of power at the time of writing (34%)
    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 13:45:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 13:22, AnthonyL wrote:
    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:26:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    From the DT.,..


    "Gas-powered plants across the UK have been ordered to fire up
    production as soaring temperatures trigger a slump in solar energy.

    <snipped>

    Regardless your site is showing the solar (however that is measured)
    is the highest producer of power at the time of writing (34%)


    Of course it is. And that's the danger. Unlike gas or nuclear, it has no ability to respond to overload without tripping out.
    --
    WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David@wibble@btinternet.com to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 12:54:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:26:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    From the DT.,..


    "Gas-powered plants across the UK have been ordered to fire up
    production as soaring temperatures trigger a slump in solar energy.

    The National Energy System Operator (Neso) issued a rare summer power
    supply warning overnight as the country braces for temperatures near 40C
    on Wednesday and Thursday.

    Gas plants have been urged to ramp up output to deal with high levels of demand expected on Wednesday night as homes and offices turn up the air conditioning to endure the heatwave.

    The notice comes as soaring temperatures make BritainrCOs solar farms less efficient, putting further strain on the power grid. Solar panel
    efficiency typically drops by 0.3pc to 0.5pc for every degree that a panelrCOs temperature rises above 25C.

    <snip>

    I assume we deploy different solar panels to hotter climes?
    Much as we use different road surfacing mixes which start to melt around
    30C.
    I didn't realise that solar panels had an optimum temperature range.

    Every day a school day.

    Cheers



    Dave R
    --
    AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 10 x64

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 14:01:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 13:54, David wrote:
    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:26:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    From the DT.,..


    "Gas-powered plants across the UK have been ordered to fire up
    production as soaring temperatures trigger a slump in solar energy.

    The National Energy System Operator (Neso) issued a rare summer power
    supply warning overnight as the country braces for temperatures near 40C
    on Wednesday and Thursday.

    Gas plants have been urged to ramp up output to deal with high levels of
    demand expected on Wednesday night as homes and offices turn up the air
    conditioning to endure the heatwave.

    The notice comes as soaring temperatures make BritainrCOs solar farms less >> efficient, putting further strain on the power grid. Solar panel
    efficiency typically drops by 0.3pc to 0.5pc for every degree that a
    panelrCOs temperature rises above 25C.

    <snip>

    I assume we deploy different solar panels to hotter climes?
    Much as we use different road surfacing mixes which start to melt around
    30C.
    I think people just design for reduced efficiency.


    I didn't realise that solar panels had an optimum temperature range.

    Well they dont work when molten, for sure.

    All semiconductor devices have temperature affected parameters.
    "Solar panels are tested under Standard Test Conditions (STC) at 25-#C (77-#F). When the sun is beating down on a panel, its internal
    temperature can easily reach 65-#C to 75-#C (150-#F to 165-#F).
    "As semiconductors get hotter, the increased internal heat causes
    electrons to move more chaotically, increasing resistance and
    significantly reducing the voltage produced.
    " The "Sweet Spot": Panels hit their peak efficiency during cold,
    crisp, sunny days (e.g., around 5-#C to 15-#C).

    Ive finally decided to shut the Aga down for summer.
    --
    rCLI know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
    obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
    they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives.rCY

    rCo Leo Tolstoy

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John R Walliker@jrwalliker@gmail.com to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 14:12:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 14:01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 13:54, David wrote:
    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:26:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    -aFrom the DT.,..


    "Gas-powered plants across the UK have been ordered to fire up
    production as soaring temperatures trigger a slump in solar energy.

    The National Energy System Operator (Neso) issued a rare summer power
    supply warning overnight as the country braces for temperatures near 40C >>> on Wednesday and Thursday.

    Gas plants have been urged to ramp up output to deal with high levels of >>> demand expected on Wednesday night as homes and offices turn up the air
    conditioning to endure the heatwave.

    The notice comes as soaring temperatures make BritainrCOs solar farms less >>> efficient, putting further strain on the power grid. Solar panel
    efficiency typically drops by 0.3pc to 0.5pc for every degree that a
    panelrCOs temperature rises above 25C.

    <snip>

    I assume we deploy different solar panels to hotter climes?
    Much as we use different road surfacing mixes which start to melt around
    30C.
    I think people just design for reduced efficiency.


    I didn't realise that solar panels had an optimum temperature range.

    Well they dont work when molten, for sure.

    All semiconductor devices have temperature affected parameters.
    "Solar panels are tested under Standard Test Conditions (STC) at 25-#C (77-#F). When the sun is beating down on a panel, its internal
    temperature can easily reach 65-#C to 75-#C (150-#F to 165-#F).
    "As semiconductors get hotter, the increased internal heat causes
    electrons to move more chaotically, increasing resistance and
    significantly reducing the voltage produced.
    -a" The "Sweet Spot": Panels hit their peak efficiency during cold,
    crisp, sunny days (e.g., around 5-#C to 15-#C).

    A solar panel is effectively a current source shunted with a diode.The
    forward voltage of the diode limits the output voltage and this reduces
    as the panel heats up. More of the incoming solar radiation is now
    dissipated as heat in the panel, further increasing the temperature.
    John


    Ive finally decided to shut the Aga down for summer.




    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Nick Finnigan@nix@genie.co.uk to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 14:33:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 12:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    The notice comes as soaring temperatures make BritainrCOs solar farms less efficient, putting further strain on the power grid. Solar panel efficiency typically drops by 0.3pc to 0.5pc for every degree that a panelrCOs temperature rises above 25C.

    And how does the actual power output change as the temperture increases ?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 14:37:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 14:33, Nick Finnigan wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 12:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    The notice comes as soaring temperatures make BritainrCOs solar farms
    less efficient, putting further strain on the power grid. Solar panel
    efficiency typically drops by 0.3pc to 0.5pc for every degree that a
    panelrCOs temperature rises above 25C.

    -aAnd how does the actual power output change as the temperture increases ?

    I found some data online that shows up to 15% lost at say 60-#C which is
    not unusual in this sort of sun.

    Its very googleable - Googles AI comes up with decent facts pretty quickly
    --
    There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
    returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

    Mark Twain

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Nick Finnigan@nix@genie.co.uk to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 14:54:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 14:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 14:33, Nick Finnigan wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 12:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    The notice comes as soaring temperatures make BritainrCOs solar farms less >>> efficient, putting further strain on the power grid. Solar panel
    efficiency typically drops by 0.3pc to 0.5pc for every degree that a
    panelrCOs temperature rises above 25C.

    -a-aAnd how does the actual power output change as the temperture increases ?

    I found some data online that shows up to 15% lost at say 60-#C which is not unusual in this sort of sun.

    15% of what is lost? How does 'this sort of sun' compare with standard?

    Its very googleable - Googles AI comes up with decent facts pretty quickly

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 16:48:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 14:54, Nick Finnigan wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 14:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 14:33, Nick Finnigan wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 12:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    The notice comes as soaring temperatures make BritainrCOs solar farms >>>> less efficient, putting further strain on the power grid. Solar
    panel efficiency typically drops by 0.3pc to 0.5pc for every degree
    that a panelrCOs temperature rises above 25C.

    -a-aAnd how does the actual power output change as the temperture
    increases ?

    I found some data online that shows up to 15% lost at say 60-#C which
    is not unusual in this sort of sun.

    -a15% of what is lost? How does 'this sort of sun' compare with standard?

    Oh FFS read it for yourself. 15% of the normally available current (at
    25-#C) isn't available at the same voltage so 15% of the normally
    available power is gone.

    This sort of sun is where ambient is over 30-#C and open sun temperatures
    of materials designed to absorb light may well peak at 85-#C or more.

    Its very googleable - Googles AI comes up with decent facts pretty
    quickly

    But you'ld rather put your fingers in your ears and say 'you're making
    it up'
    --
    A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
    its shoes.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jethro@jethro_UK@hotmailbin.com to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 10:19:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:22:39 +0000, AnthonyL wrote:

    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:26:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    From the DT.,..


    "Gas-powered plants across the UK have been ordered to fire up
    production as soaring temperatures trigger a slump in solar energy.

    <snipped>

    Regardless your site is showing the solar (however that is measured)
    is the highest producer of power at the time of writing (34%)

    AIUI the %age for solar and wind is just the metered ? There is addition generation which goes to reducing the overall demand before metering ?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From nospam@nospam@please.invalid (AnthonyL) to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 11:31:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 14:01:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 24/06/2026 13:54, David wrote:
    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:26:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    From the DT.,..


    "Gas-powered plants across the UK have been ordered to fire up
    production as soaring temperatures trigger a slump in solar energy.

    The National Energy System Operator (Neso) issued a rare summer power
    supply warning overnight as the country braces for temperatures near 40C >>> on Wednesday and Thursday.

    Gas plants have been urged to ramp up output to deal with high levels of >>> demand expected on Wednesday night as homes and offices turn up the air
    conditioning to endure the heatwave.

    The notice comes as soaring temperatures make BritainrCOs solar farms less >>> efficient, putting further strain on the power grid. Solar panel
    efficiency typically drops by 0.3pc to 0.5pc for every degree that a
    panelrCOs temperature rises above 25C.

    <snip>

    I assume we deploy different solar panels to hotter climes?
    Much as we use different road surfacing mixes which start to melt around
    30C.
    I think people just design for reduced efficiency.


    I didn't realise that solar panels had an optimum temperature range.

    Well they dont work when molten, for sure.

    All semiconductor devices have temperature affected parameters.
    "Solar panels are tested under Standard Test Conditions (STC) at 25-#C >(77-#F). When the sun is beating down on a panel, its internal
    temperature can easily reach 65-#C to 75-#C (150-#F to 165-#F).
    "As semiconductors get hotter, the increased internal heat causes
    electrons to move more chaotically, increasing resistance and
    significantly reducing the voltage produced.
    " The "Sweet Spot": Panels hit their peak efficiency during cold,
    crisp, sunny days (e.g., around 5-#C to 15-#C).

    Ive finally decided to shut the Aga down for summer.



    I'm thankful that the annual boiler service is being carried out
    tomorrow. It's really struggling in these conditions, so much so that
    it hasn't kicked in all week :)
    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From nospam@nospam@please.invalid (AnthonyL) to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 11:33:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 16:48:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 24/06/2026 14:54, Nick Finnigan wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 14:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 14:33, Nick Finnigan wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 12:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    The notice comes as soaring temperatures make BritainrCOs solar farms >>>>> less efficient, putting further strain on the power grid. Solar
    panel efficiency typically drops by 0.3pc to 0.5pc for every degree >>>>> that a panelrCOs temperature rises above 25C.

    -a-aAnd how does the actual power output change as the temperture
    increases ?

    I found some data online that shows up to 15% lost at say 60-#C which
    is not unusual in this sort of sun.

    -a15% of what is lost? How does 'this sort of sun' compare with standard? >>
    Oh FFS read it for yourself. 15% of the normally available current (at >25-#C) isn't available at the same voltage so 15% of the normally
    available power is gone.

    This sort of sun is where ambient is over 30-#C and open sun temperatures
    of materials designed to absorb light may well peak at 85-#C or more.

    Its very googleable - Googles AI comes up with decent facts pretty
    quickly

    But you'ld rather put your fingers in your ears and say 'you're making
    it up'


    When I relayed the main part of this thread to a green friend the sole
    reaction was:

    "My brain immediately converts the "too much sun" part to "if we had
    solar and wind energy, the planet wouldn't be frying in the first
    place".
    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From nospam@nospam@please.invalid (AnthonyL) to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 11:38:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 13:45:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 24/06/2026 13:22, AnthonyL wrote:
    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:26:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
    <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    From the DT.,..


    "Gas-powered plants across the UK have been ordered to fire up
    production as soaring temperatures trigger a slump in solar energy.

    <snipped>

    Regardless your site is showing the solar (however that is measured)
    is the highest producer of power at the time of writing (34%)


    Of course it is. And that's the danger. Unlike gas or nuclear, it has no >ability to respond to overload without tripping out.



    Indeed, though the article seemed to suggest that solar output was
    very low, 10% which it may have been at the time. 34% is quite a
    respectable figure, just needs to keep that up for 7/24/365.
    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Nomad@nomad@the.desert.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 12:58:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 11:38:57 GMT, nospam@please.invalid (AnthonyL) wrote:

    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 13:45:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 24/06/2026 13:22, AnthonyL wrote:
    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:26:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
    <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    From the DT.,..


    "Gas-powered plants across the UK have been ordered to fire up
    production as soaring temperatures trigger a slump in solar energy.

    <snipped>

    Regardless your site is showing the solar (however that is measured)
    is the highest producer of power at the time of writing (34%)


    Of course it is. And that's the danger. Unlike gas or nuclear, it has no >>ability to respond to overload without tripping out.



    Indeed, though the article seemed to suggest that solar output was very
    low, 10% which it may have been at the time. 34% is quite a respectable figure, just needs to keep that up for 7/24/365.

    Umm,

    I think 24/7/52 is the correct metric :-)

    (Hrs/day - days/week - weeks/yr) ???

    Avpx
    --
    Ahahahahaha! Ahahahaha! Aahahaha!

    BEWARE!!!!!

    Yrs sincerely
    The Opera Ghost


    (Maskerade)
    Thu 11986 Sep 13:55:01 BST 1993
    13:55:01 up 3 days, 59 min, 1 user, load average: 1.21, 1.62, 1.59
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Nick Finnigan@nix@genie.co.uk to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 13:59:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 16:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 14:54, Nick Finnigan wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 14:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 14:33, Nick Finnigan wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 12:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    The notice comes as soaring temperatures make BritainrCOs solar farms >>>>> less efficient, putting further strain on the power grid. Solar panel >>>>> efficiency typically drops by 0.3pc to 0.5pc for every degree that a >>>>> panelrCOs temperature rises above 25C.

    -a-aAnd how does the actual power output change as the temperture
    increases ?

    I found some data online that shows up to 15% lost at say 60-#C which is >>> not unusual in this sort of sun.

    -a-a15% of what is lost? How does 'this sort of sun' compare with standard? >>
    Oh FFS read it for yourself. 15% of the normally available current (at 25-#C)-a isn't available at the same voltage so 15% of the normally available
    power is gone.

    'normally available', but now we have exceptional sun.

    This sort of sun is where ambient is over 30-#C and open sun temperatures of materials designed to absorb light may well peak at 85-#C or more.

    Its very googleable - Googles AI comes up with decent facts pretty quickly >>
    But you'ld rather put your fingers in your ears and say 'you're making it up'


    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2215016125005606

    "Irradiation is the primary driver of Production. However, the effect of Temperature is critical only in the maximum production regime (High Irradiation). The unexpected result is that Low Temperature is suboptimal
    when Irradiation is highest, suggesting that conditions associated with slightly higher ambient temperatures (Medium or High) are more conducive to overall performance in the peak sun regime."
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 16:43:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 25/06/2026 11:19, Jethro wrote:
    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:22:39 +0000, AnthonyL wrote:

    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:26:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
    <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    From the DT.,..


    "Gas-powered plants across the UK have been ordered to fire up
    production as soaring temperatures trigger a slump in solar energy.

    <snipped>

    Regardless your site is showing the solar (however that is measured)
    is the highest producer of power at the time of writing (34%)

    AIUI the %age for solar and wind is just the metered ? There is addition generation which goes to reducing the overall demand before metering ?
    No. Wind is what is metered but it comprises the bast majority of windpower. Solar is a guess, from Sheffield University who I think use a sampling technique to create it.

    BM reports dioesn't have a 'solar' section AFAIK
    --
    For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the
    very definition of slavery.

    Jonathan Swift


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 16:44:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 25/06/2026 12:31, AnthonyL wrote:

    I'm thankful that the annual boiler service is being carried out
    tomorrow. It's really struggling in these conditions, so much so that
    it hasn't kicked in all week :)

    I switched off my Aga yesterday

    Boiler only doing hot water now as well
    --
    The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
    rule.
    rCo H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 16:46:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 25/06/2026 12:33, AnthonyL wrote:
    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 16:48:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 24/06/2026 14:54, Nick Finnigan wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 14:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 14:33, Nick Finnigan wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 12:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    The notice comes as soaring temperatures make BritainrCOs solar farms >>>>>> less efficient, putting further strain on the power grid. Solar
    panel efficiency typically drops by 0.3pc to 0.5pc for every degree >>>>>> that a panelrCOs temperature rises above 25C.

    -a-aAnd how does the actual power output change as the temperture
    increases ?

    I found some data online that shows up to 15% lost at say 60-#C which
    is not unusual in this sort of sun.

    -a15% of what is lost? How does 'this sort of sun' compare with standard? >>>
    Oh FFS read it for yourself. 15% of the normally available current (at
    25-#C) isn't available at the same voltage so 15% of the normally
    available power is gone.

    This sort of sun is where ambient is over 30-#C and open sun temperatures
    of materials designed to absorb light may well peak at 85-#C or more.

    Its very googleable - Googles AI comes up with decent facts pretty
    quickly

    But you'ld rather put your fingers in your ears and say 'you're making
    it up'


    When I relayed the main part of this thread to a green friend the sole reaction was:

    "My brain immediately converts the "too much sun" part to "if we had
    solar and wind energy, the planet wouldn't be frying in the first
    place".




    The cognitive dissonance is huge. The plany isn't frying.
    Not even England and France

    Without fossil fuel the greens would not exist to moan
    --
    The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
    rule.
    rCo H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alan_m@junk@admac.myzen.co.uk to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 17:44:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 25/06/2026 12:31, AnthonyL wrote:


    I'm thankful that the annual boiler service is being carried out
    tomorrow. It's really struggling in these conditions, so much so that
    it hasn't kicked in all week :)


    I fired up my boiler for central heating yesterday:) Only for a few
    minutes to circulate some water after reinstalling radiators I had taken
    off to paper behind them :)
    --
    mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Layman@Jeff@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 18:12:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 25/06/2026 13:58, The Nomad wrote:
    On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 11:38:57 GMT, nospam@please.invalid (AnthonyL) wrote:

    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 13:45:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
    <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 24/06/2026 13:22, AnthonyL wrote:
    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:26:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
    <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    From the DT.,..


    "Gas-powered plants across the UK have been ordered to fire up
    production as soaring temperatures trigger a slump in solar energy.

    <snipped>

    Regardless your site is showing the solar (however that is measured)
    is the highest producer of power at the time of writing (34%)


    Of course it is. And that's the danger. Unlike gas or nuclear, it has no >>> ability to respond to overload without tripping out.



    Indeed, though the article seemed to suggest that solar output was very
    low, 10% which it may have been at the time. 34% is quite a respectable
    figure, just needs to keep that up for 7/24/365.

    Umm,

    I think 24/7/52 is the correct metric :-)

    (Hrs/day - days/week - weeks/yr) ???

    Shouldn't it really be 12/7/52? Last time I checked solar didn't work in
    the dark. ;-)
    --
    Jeff
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Layman@Jeff@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 18:16:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 25/06/2026 16:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    The cognitive dissonance is huge. The plany isn't frying.

    "The plany isn't frying...??"

    You are Professor Stanley Unwin and I claim my five pounds! ;-)
    --
    Jeff
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From RJH@patchmoney@gmx.com to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 22:30:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24 Jun 2026 at 13:54:03 BST, David wrote:

    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:26:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    From the DT.,..


    "Gas-powered plants across the UK have been ordered to fire up
    production as soaring temperatures trigger a slump in solar energy.

    The National Energy System Operator (Neso) issued a rare summer power
    supply warning overnight as the country braces for temperatures near 40C
    on Wednesday and Thursday.

    Gas plants have been urged to ramp up output to deal with high levels of
    demand expected on Wednesday night as homes and offices turn up the air
    conditioning to endure the heatwave.

    The notice comes as soaring temperatures make BritainrCOs solar farms less >> efficient, putting further strain on the power grid. Solar panel
    efficiency typically drops by 0.3pc to 0.5pc for every degree that a
    panelrCOs temperature rises above 25C.

    <snip>

    I assume we deploy different solar panels to hotter climes?
    Much as we use different road surfacing mixes which start to melt around
    30C.
    I didn't realise that solar panels had an optimum temperature range.

    Every day a school day.

    Cheers

    Far be it from me to challenge the DT (if that was where it was from), but while solar PV does become less efficient with higher temps - it's only a few percentage points in the ranges under discussion. My solar still managed to generate 18kW/hrs today - maximum ever is 22.
    --
    Cheers, Rob
    Sheffield, UK
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jun 26 09:25:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 25/06/2026 18:16, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 25/06/2026 16:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    The cognitive dissonance is huge. The plany isn't frying.

    "The plany isn't frying...??"

    You are Professor Stanley Unwin and I claim my five pounds! ;-)

    Cataract operations are due...
    --
    rCLIt is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
    who pay no price for being wrong.rCY

    Thomas Sowell

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Layman@Jeff@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jun 26 16:44:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 26/06/2026 09:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 25/06/2026 18:16, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 25/06/2026 16:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    The cognitive dissonance is huge. The plany isn't frying.

    "The plany isn't frying...??"

    You are Professor Stanley Unwin and I claim my five pounds! ;-)

    Cataract operations are due...

    Good luck. Hope they work out ok.
    --
    Jeff
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From wasbit@wasbit@invalid.com to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jun 27 10:40:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 12:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    From the DT.,..


    "Gas-powered plants across the UK have been ordered to fire up
    production as soaring temperatures trigger a slump in solar energy.

    The National Energy System Operator (Neso) issued a rare summer power
    supply warning overnight as the country braces for temperatures near 40C
    on Wednesday and Thursday.

    Gas plants have been urged to ramp up output to deal with high levels of demand expected on Wednesday night as homes and offices turn up the air conditioning to endure the heatwave.

    The notice comes as soaring temperatures make BritainrCOs solar farms less efficient, putting further strain on the power grid. Solar panel
    efficiency typically drops by 0.3pc to 0.5pc for every degree that a panelrCOs temperature rises above 25C.

    Noemie Baud, from energy consultancy Montel, said: rCLHigher demand for
    air conditioning and cooling systems is contributing to the increase [in power demand], while lower outputs from solar and gas generation means
    more conventional generation is required to meet demand, pushing up prices.rCY

    Data from the UKrCOs grid network showed gas generation jumped from around eight gigawatts at 12pm on Tuesday, to more than 17 gigawatts overnight.

    More than half of BritainrCOs power needs were being supplied by gas on Wednesday morning, with wind generating around 12pc and solar less than 10pc.

    rCLOur forecasts are showing tight margins on the electricity system for tomorrow evening,rCY Neso said on Tuesday night. rCLThis is due to the impact of extremely high temperatures affecting Great Britain and the Continent and low wind.rCY
    Energy shortfall

    Britain was facing a 1.9 gigawatt shortfall in its rCLmarginrCY for Wednesday night rCo the buffer between available power generation and
    total consumer demand rCo according to an alert at 9pm on Tuesday from Elexon, the company that manages the electricity trades that keep BritainrCOs lights on.

    The alert signals to BritainrCOs gas power plants and other suppliers to start generating more energy to meet the expected demand and is not a
    sign that blackouts are imminent.

    A spokesman for Neso said: rCLWe are asking market participants to make
    any additional generation capacity they may have available.

    rCLThe Electricity Margin Notice does not mean electricity supply is at risk.rCY

    Such warnings are usually issued during winter when demand for energy is
    at its highest. However, households and businesses are expected to ramp
    up power usage for air conditioning and other means of keeping cool,
    after the Met Office issued a red weather warning.

    BritainrCOs energy shortage has been compounded by relatively low wind generation across the country and continental Europe.

    Meanwhile, imports of French energy have fallen by 48pc since Sunday.
    France has been forced to switch off a nuclear power station as high
    river temperatures mean the water is too warm to safely cool reactors.

    In a worrying sign for consumers, energy market intelligence firm Montel said the decline in renewable efficiency had pushed up wholesale power prices.

    Prices climbed to -u248.39 per megawatt hour at the evening peak on
    Tuesday, an increase of more than 75pc compared with the same time a
    week earlier."


    You obviously missed the one where they had to recharge electic buses
    using a diesel generator.
    --
    Regards
    wasbit
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Max Demian@max_demian@bigfoot.com to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jun 27 12:29:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 27/06/2026 10:40, wasbit wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 12:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    -aFrom the DT.,..

    "Gas-powered plants across the UK have been ordered to fire up
    production as soaring temperatures trigger a slump in solar energy.

    The National Energy System Operator (Neso) issued a rare summer power
    supply warning overnight as the country braces for temperatures near
    40C on Wednesday and Thursday.

    Gas plants have been urged to ramp up output to deal with high levels
    of demand expected on Wednesday night as homes and offices turn up the
    air conditioning to endure the heatwave.

    The notice comes as soaring temperatures make BritainrCOs solar farms
    less efficient, putting further strain on the power grid. Solar panel
    efficiency typically drops by 0.3pc to 0.5pc for every degree that a
    panelrCOs temperature rises above 25C.

    Noemie Baud, from energy consultancy Montel, said: rCLHigher demand for
    air conditioning and cooling systems is contributing to the increase
    [in power demand], while lower outputs from solar and gas generation
    means more conventional generation is required to meet demand, pushing
    up prices.rCY

    Data from the UKrCOs grid network showed gas generation jumped from
    around eight gigawatts at 12pm on Tuesday, to more than 17 gigawatts
    overnight.

    More than half of BritainrCOs power needs were being supplied by gas on
    Wednesday morning, with wind generating around 12pc and solar less
    than 10pc.

    rCLOur forecasts are showing tight margins on the electricity system for
    tomorrow evening,rCY Neso said on Tuesday night. rCLThis is due to the
    impact of extremely high temperatures affecting Great Britain and the
    Continent and low wind.rCY
    Energy shortfall

    Britain was facing a 1.9 gigawatt shortfall in its rCLmarginrCY for
    Wednesday night rCo the buffer between available power generation and
    total consumer demand rCo according to an alert at 9pm on Tuesday from
    Elexon, the company that manages the electricity trades that keep
    BritainrCOs lights on.

    The alert signals to BritainrCOs gas power plants and other suppliers to
    start generating more energy to meet the expected demand and is not a
    sign that blackouts are imminent.

    A spokesman for Neso said: rCLWe are asking market participants to make
    any additional generation capacity they may have available.

    rCLThe Electricity Margin Notice does not mean electricity supply is at
    risk.rCY

    Such warnings are usually issued during winter when demand for energy
    is at its highest. However, households and businesses are expected to
    ramp up power usage for air conditioning and other means of keeping
    cool, after the Met Office issued a red weather warning.

    BritainrCOs energy shortage has been compounded by relatively low wind
    generation across the country and continental Europe.

    Meanwhile, imports of French energy have fallen by 48pc since Sunday.
    France has been forced to switch off a nuclear power station as high
    river temperatures mean the water is too warm to safely cool reactors.

    In a worrying sign for consumers, energy market intelligence firm
    Montel said the decline in renewable efficiency had pushed up
    wholesale power prices.

    Prices climbed to -u248.39 per megawatt hour at the evening peak on
    Tuesday, an increase of more than 75pc compared with the same time a
    week earlier."


    You obviously missed the one where they had to recharge electic buses
    using a diesel generator.

    My dad said that in WW2 they fuelled ICE buses with a bag filled with
    coal gas on the roof, which became saggy as the gas was used.
    --
    Max Demian
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andrew@Andrew97d@btinternet.com to uk.d-i-y on Mon Jun 29 22:40:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 13:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 13:22, AnthonyL wrote:
    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:26:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
    <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    -aFrom the DT.,..


    "Gas-powered plants across the UK have been ordered to fire up
    production as soaring temperatures trigger a slump in solar energy.

    <snipped>

    Regardless your site is showing the solar (however that is measured)
    is the highest producer of power at the time of writing (34%)


    Of course it is. And that's the danger. Unlike gas or nuclear, it has no ability to respond to overload without tripping out.



    Or causing 'cheapo' EV chargers to tripout when the voltage goes
    over 253V

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f6TD2OSup4

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2