• If you thought Straner was bad....

    From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Mon Jun 22 12:07:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    You ain't seen nuthin' yet.

    Sigh. Here we go again.
    --
    rCLThe fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that
    the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

    - Bertrand Russell

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spike@aero.spike@mail.com to uk.d-i-y on Mon Jun 22 11:33:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    You ain't seen nuthin' yet.

    Sigh. Here we go again.

    Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
    Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa
    --
    Spike
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Mon Jun 22 12:50:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    You ain't seen nuthin' yet.

    Sigh. Here we go again.

    Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
    Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa

    Lol.
    I got the same sinking feeling when Blair became PM.
    --
    In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
    gets full Marx.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Scott@newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk to uk.d-i-y on Mon Jun 22 13:16:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 22 Jun 2026 11:33:04 GMT, Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:

    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    You ain't seen nuthin' yet.

    Sigh. Here we go again.

    Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
    Millibrain as Chancellor of the Exchequera

    Pat McFadden?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 03:37:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Mon, 22 Jun 2026 21:50:05 +1000, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    You ain't seen nuthin' yet.

    Sigh. Here we go again.
    Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
    Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa

    Lol.
    I got the same sinking feeling when Blair became PM.
    He was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Abandoned Trolley@that.bloke@microsoft.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 09:26:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y



    He was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term


    Wilson ?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 19:01:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:26:43 +1000, Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> wrote:


    He was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term


    Wilson ?

    I should have said consecutively
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 10:20:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 09:26, Abandoned Trolley wrote:


    He was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term


    Wilson ?
    I admit being able to con the public into voting for him twice was quite
    a feat.

    But as a lawyer he was a professional liar. Most politicians are mere amateurs...
    --
    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
    always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

    Margaret Thatcher

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Mills@mills37.fslife@gmail.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 11:26:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    You ain't seen nuthin' yet.

    Sigh. Here we go again.

    Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
    Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa

    Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
    sensible policies. He'll need to be given a job to prevent him causing
    trouble on the back benches - but *please* not chancellor. How about
    Minister for Bacon Butties - where he can't do too much harm?
    --
    Cheers,
    Roger
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Abandoned Trolley@that.bloke@microsoft.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 12:02:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 10:01, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:26:43 +1000, Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> wrote:


    -aHe was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term


    Wilson ?

    I should have said consecutively


    OK

    It occurs to me that Labour supporters have a rather distorted view of
    the long term popularity of their party

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the 3rd
    Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only been 2
    others in the entire history of the party
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Abandoned Trolley@that.bloke@microsoft.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 12:03:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y



    Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
    sensible policies. He'll need to be given a job to prevent him causing trouble on the back benches - but *please* not chancellor. How about Minister for Bacon Butties - where he can't do too much harm?



    just the job for a man with 2 kitchens ?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 13:51:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 12:02, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 10:01, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:26:43 +1000, Abandoned Trolley
    <that.bloke@microsoft.com> wrote:


    -aHe was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term


    Wilson ?

    I should have said consecutively


    OK

    It occurs to me that Labour supporters have a rather distorted view of
    the long term popularity of their party

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the 3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only been 2
    others in the entire history of the party

    Thought there were more than that.
    I can think of four straightaway
    And there have been 7

    Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
    Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
    Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
    James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
    Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
    Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
    Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)
    --
    Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get.
    Mark Twain

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Joe@joe@jretrading.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 13:58:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 11:26:49 +0100
    Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:

    Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa

    Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
    sensible policies.
    The second clause of your sentence does not follow from the first.
    Nobody sane would do what Miliband is doing *by* *choice*. He is either compelled or rewarded, as any possible replacement would be.
    Net Zero, as applied to a small developed country, cannot conceivably
    do what it says on the tin. Its purpose is to eliminate the economy it
    is applied to.
    --
    Joe
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Joe@joe@jretrading.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 14:04:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 13:51:46 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 12:02, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 10:01, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:26:43 +1000, Abandoned Trolley
    <that.bloke@microsoft.com> wrote:


    -aHe was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term


    Wilson ?

    I should have said consecutively


    OK

    It occurs to me that Labour supporters have a rather distorted view
    of the long term popularity of their party

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the
    3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
    been 2 others in the entire history of the party

    Thought there were more than that.
    I can think of four straightaway
    And there have been 7

    Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
    Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
    Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
    James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
    Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
    Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
    Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)

    Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
    elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
    Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.
    --
    Joe
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 14:22:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 13:58, Joe wrote:
    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 11:26:49 +0100
    Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:


    Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
    Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa

    Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
    sensible policies.

    The second clause of your sentence does not follow from the first.

    Nobody sane would do what Miliband is doing *by* *choice*. He is either compelled or rewarded, as any possible replacement would be.

    Net Zero, as applied to a small developed country, cannot conceivably
    do what it says on the tin. Its purpose is to eliminate the economy it
    is applied to.

    So we all run back to Mama EU and say we are sorry...
    --
    rCLIt is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
    who pay no price for being wrong.rCY

    Thomas Sowell

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 14:24:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 14:04, Joe wrote:
    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 13:51:46 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 12:02, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 10:01, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:26:43 +1000, Abandoned Trolley
    <that.bloke@microsoft.com> wrote:


    -aHe was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term


    Wilson ?

    I should have said consecutively


    OK

    It occurs to me that Labour supporters have a rather distorted view
    of the long term popularity of their party

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the
    3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
    been 2 others in the entire history of the party

    Thought there were more than that.
    I can think of four straightaway
    And there have been 7

    Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
    Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
    Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
    James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
    Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
    Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
    Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)


    Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
    elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
    Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.

    That's still 5 of the bastards
    --
    rCLIt is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
    who pay no price for being wrong.rCY

    Thomas Sowell

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Gaines@jgnewsid@outlook.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 13:52:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 in message
    <20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the
    3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
    been 2 others in the entire history of the party

    Thought there were more than that.
    I can think of four straightaway
    And there have been 7

    Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
    Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
    Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
    James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
    Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
    Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
    Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)


    Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
    elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
    Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.

    No PM has ever been elected in the UK.
    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    You can't tell which way the train went by looking at the tracks
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Joe@joe@jretrading.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 15:16:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23 Jun 2026 13:52:23 GMT
    "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 in message
    <20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the
    3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
    been 2 others in the entire history of the party

    Thought there were more than that.
    I can think of four straightaway
    And there have been 7

    Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
    Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
    Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
    James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
    Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
    Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
    Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)


    Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
    elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
    Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.

    No PM has ever been elected in the UK.

    No, but it is assumed that the leader of the party at the time of the
    election will be PM. Callaghan and Brown were not party leader when the
    last GE was held.
    For God's sake, people vote in a General Election for the party leader
    they like best. All this business about MPs and representation is
    rubbish.
    --
    Joe
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Joe@joe@jretrading.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 15:18:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 14:22:48 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 13:58, Joe wrote:
    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 11:26:49 +0100
    Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:


    Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
    Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa

    Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
    sensible policies.

    The second clause of your sentence does not follow from the first.

    Nobody sane would do what Miliband is doing *by* *choice*. He is
    either compelled or rewarded, as any possible replacement would be.

    Net Zero, as applied to a small developed country, cannot
    conceivably do what it says on the tin. Its purpose is to eliminate
    the economy it is applied to.

    So we all run back to Mama EU and say we are sorry...

    Why would we do that? And anyway, the productive people of Britain are
    not sorry. It's only the parasites who want to ride on a bigger gravy
    train that are.
    --
    Joe
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andrew@Andrew97d@btinternet.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 15:39:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 in message
    <20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the
    3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
    been 2 others in the entire history of the party

    Thought there were more than that.
    I can think of four straightaway
    And there have been 7

    Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
    Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
    Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
    James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
    Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
    Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
    Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)


    Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
    elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
    Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.

    No PM has ever been elected in the UK.


    and Starmer and his band of clueless idiots received way less
    than half the votes actually cast (thanks to 'Reform') but still
    bagged a massive majority of MP's
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 16:58:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 15:18, Joe wrote:
    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 14:22:48 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 13:58, Joe wrote:
    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 11:26:49 +0100
    Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:


    Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
    Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa

    Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
    sensible policies.

    The second clause of your sentence does not follow from the first.

    Nobody sane would do what Miliband is doing *by* *choice*. He is
    either compelled or rewarded, as any possible replacement would be.

    Net Zero, as applied to a small developed country, cannot
    conceivably do what it says on the tin. Its purpose is to eliminate
    the economy it is applied to.

    So we all run back to Mama EU and say we are sorry...


    Why would we do that?
    Because the BBC the guardian and the labour party tell us we have to.

    And anyway, the productive people of Britain are
    not sorry. It's only the parasites who want to ride on a bigger gravy
    train that are.

    Unproductive people are in the majority
    --
    "A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
    and understanding".

    Marshall McLuhan


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 16:58:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 in message
    <20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the
    3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
    been 2 others in the entire history of the party

    Thought there were more than that.
    I can think of four straightaway
    And there have been 7

    Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
    Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
    Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
    James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
    Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
    Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
    Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)


    Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
    elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
    Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.

    No PM has ever been elected in the UK.

    Moot. Parties with a leader, destined to be PM, have
    --
    "A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
    and understanding".

    Marshall McLuhan


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 16:59:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 15:16, Joe wrote:
    For God's sake, people vote in a General Election for the party leader
    they like best. All this business about MPs and representation is
    rubbish.
    fairly but not universally true
    --
    "A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
    and understanding".

    Marshall McLuhan


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 02:18:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 21:02:18 +1000, Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 10:01, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:26:43 +1000, Abandoned Trolley
    <that.bloke@microsoft.com> wrote:


    He was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term


    Wilson ?
    I should have said consecutively


    OK

    It occurs to me that Labour supporters have a rather distorted view of
    the long term popularity of their party

    Only Blair has managed more than one consequtive term
    and it's hard to claim that he was ever real Labour

    The pom voters don't think much of Labour

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the 3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only been 2
    others in the entire history of the party

    And we have now seen 4 PMs in 3 years and 7 in 10 years.

    What a shambles
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Gaines@jgnewsid@outlook.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 17:04:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 in message <111eag0$2cdpr$2@dont-email.me> The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 in message >><20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only >>>>>been 2 others in the entire history of the party

    Thought there were more than that.
    I can think of four straightaway
    And there have been 7

    Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
    Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
    Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
    James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
    Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
    Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
    Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)


    Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
    elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as >>>Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.

    No PM has ever been elected in the UK.

    Moot. Parties with a leader, destined to be PM, have

    Not moot at all.
    We vote for MPs as people, not for their party so no bye-election if they switch parties.
    The party with most MPs governs and its leader is PM, whenever appointed.
    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    Every day is a good day for chicken, unless you're a chicken.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Gaines@jgnewsid@outlook.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 17:05:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 in message <111e5q5$2arkq$1@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 in message >><20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only >>>>>been 2 others in the entire history of the party

    Thought there were more than that.
    I can think of four straightaway
    And there have been 7

    Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
    Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
    Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
    James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
    Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
    Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
    Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)


    Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
    elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as >>>Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.

    No PM has ever been elected in the UK.


    and Starmer and his band of clueless idiots received way less
    than half the votes actually cast (thanks to 'Reform') but still
    bagged a massive majority of MP's

    We need PR, pure PR.
    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    I take full responsibility for what happened - that is why the person that
    was responsible went immediately.
    (Gordon Brown, April 2009)
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Gaines@jgnewsid@outlook.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 17:07:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 in message
    <20260623151608.1e687119@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:

    On 23 Jun 2026 13:52:23 GMT
    "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 in message
    <20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only >>>>>been 2 others in the entire history of the party

    Thought there were more than that.
    I can think of four straightaway
    And there have been 7

    Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
    Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
    Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
    James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
    Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
    Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
    Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)


    Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
    elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as >>>Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.

    No PM has ever been elected in the UK.


    No, but it is assumed that the leader of the party at the time of the >election will be PM. Callaghan and Brown were not party leader when the
    last GE was held.

    And that is true but can change the next day, people seem to have a
    problem understanding it.

    For God's sake, people vote in a General Election for the party leader
    they like best. All this business about MPs and representation is
    rubbish.

    You speak for yourself, not for people generally, people who understand
    the position know what they are voting for.
    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.
    (Ken Olson, president Digital Equipment, 1977)
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 03:12:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 03:04:37 +1000, Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 in message <111eag0$2cdpr$2@dont-email.me> The Natural > Philosopher wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 in message >>> <20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>> 3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only>>>>>> been 2 others in the entire history of the party

    Thought there were more than that.
    I can think of four straightaway
    And there have been 7

    Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
    Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
    Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
    James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
    Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
    Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
    Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)


    Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
    elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
    Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.

    No PM has ever been elected in the UK.

    Moot. Parties with a leader, destined to be PM, have

    Not moot at all.
    We vote for MPs as people, not for their party
    Most vote for the party, not for the particular individual in their seat> so no bye-election if they switch parties.
    The party with most MPs governs and its leader is PM, whenever appointed.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Joe@joe@jretrading.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 19:58:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23 Jun 2026 17:07:21 GMT
    "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:



    people who
    understand the position know what they are voting for.


    Come on, can you not remember people berating Corbyn for failing to
    tell Labour voters clearly enough which way to vote in 2016?

    How many people really do think for themselves? And can you imagine a
    member of one of the tribes now in the UK failing to vote for one of
    their own if one is standing?
    --
    Joe

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Gaines@jgnewsid@outlook.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 20:03:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 in message <op.3rdre7zebyq249@pvr2.lan> Rod Speed wrote:

    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 03:04:37 +1000, Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com>
    wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 in message <111eag0$2cdpr$2@dont-email.me> The Natural >>Philosopher wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 in message >>>><20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>>>3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only >>>>>>>been 2 others in the entire history of the party

    Thought there were more than that.
    I can think of four straightaway
    And there have been 7

    Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
    Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
    Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
    James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
    Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
    Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
    Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)


    Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were >>>>>elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as >>>>>Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.

    No PM has ever been elected in the UK.

    Moot. Parties with a leader, destined to be PM, have

    Not moot at all.
    We vote for MPs as people, not for their party

    Most vote for the party, not for the particular individual in their seat

    Always astonishes me that people on social media feel they have a mandate
    to speak for "most".

    You don't.
    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    This joke was so funny when I heard it for the first time I fell of my dinosaur.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alan_m@junk@admac.myzen.co.uk to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 21:23:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 19:58, Joe wrote:
    On 23 Jun 2026 17:07:21 GMT
    "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:



    people who
    understand the position know what they are voting for.


    Come on, can you not remember people berating Corbyn for failing to
    tell Labour voters clearly enough which way to vote in 2016?

    How many people really do think for themselves? And can you imagine a
    member of one of the tribes now in the UK failing to vote for one of
    their own if one is standing?


    In general people vote for what they perceive to be the lesser of evils
    at the time of the election, alternatively they just have a protest vote.

    The public realise that what a UK politician says before an election and
    what he actually does once in power are completely different things.
    --
    mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alan_m@junk@admac.myzen.co.uk to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 21:26:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 11:26, Roger Mills wrote:
    On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    You ain't seen nuthin' yet.

    Sigh. Here we go again.

    Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
    Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa

    Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
    sensible policies. He'll need to be given a job to prevent him causing trouble on the back benches - but *please* not chancellor. How about Minister for Bacon Butties - where he can't do too much harm?


    He will make veganism compulsory.
    --
    mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 21:40:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 18:04, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    Moot. Parties with a leader, destined to be PM, have

    Not moot at all.
    We vote for MPs as people, not for their party so no bye-election if
    they switch parties.
    No,. we vote for the local representative of a party, andby extension,
    its leader

    Thats the REALITY no matter what you theory says

    The party with most MPs governs and its leader is PM, whenever appointed.
    --
    rCLThose who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.rCY

    rCo Voltaire, Questions sur les Miracles |a M. Claparede, Professeur de Th|-ologie |a Gen|?ve, par un Proposant: Ou Extrait de Diverses Lettres de
    M. de Voltaire

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 21:40:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 18:05, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 in message <111e5q5$2arkq$1@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 in message
    <20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>> 3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
    been 2 others in the entire history of the party

    Thought there were more than that.
    I can think of four straightaway
    And there have been 7

    Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
    Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
    Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
    James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
    Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
    Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
    Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)


    Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
    elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
    Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.

    No PM has ever been elected in the UK.


    and Starmer and his band of clueless idiots received way less
    than half the votes actually cast (thanks to 'Reform') but still
    bagged a massive majority of MP's

    We need PR, pure PR.

    No w e dont.
    --
    You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
    kind word alone.

    Al Capone



    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Fredxx@fredxx@spam.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 21:54:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 18:05, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 in message <111e5q5$2arkq$1@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 in message
    <20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>> 3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
    been 2 others in the entire history of the party

    Thought there were more than that.
    I can think of four straightaway
    And there have been 7

    Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
    Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
    Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
    James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
    Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
    Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
    Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)


    Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
    elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
    Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.

    No PM has ever been elected in the UK.


    and Starmer and his band of clueless idiots received way less
    than half the votes actually cast (thanks to 'Reform') but still
    bagged a massive majority of MP's

    We need PR, pure PR.

    The idea of a minority extreme party holding power fills me with horror. Israel is a case in point.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Gaines@jgnewsid@outlook.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 21:10:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 in message <111eqva$2hojc$3@dont-email.me> The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 18:04, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    Moot. Parties with a leader, destined to be PM, have

    Not moot at all.
    We vote for MPs as people, not for their party so no bye-election if they >>switch parties.
    No,. we vote for the local representative of a party, andby extension, its >leader

    Thats the REALITY no matter what you theory says

    Not my theory, it's the legal position.
    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    There are 10 types of people in the world, those who do binary and those
    who don't.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rod Speed@rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 07:20:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 06:54:12 +1000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 18:05, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 in message <111e5q5$2arkq$1@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 in message >>>> <20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>>> 3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only >>>>>>> been 2 others in the entire history of the party

    Thought there were more than that.
    I can think of four straightaway
    And there have been 7

    Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
    Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
    Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
    James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
    Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
    Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
    Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)


    Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
    elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as>>>>> Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.

    No PM has ever been elected in the UK.


    and Starmer and his band of clueless idiots received way less
    than half the votes actually cast (thanks to 'Reform') but still
    bagged a massive majority of MP's
    We need PR, pure PR.

    The idea of a minority extreme party holding power fills me with horror. > Israel is a case in point.
    And its not just holding power either, having an influence on policy
    like happens with the greens in germany
    And gross instability in politics like has been seen with Italy
    And not being able to form the govt as we have seen with Belgium
    No thanks
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Joe@joe@jretrading.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 22:22:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 21:40:26 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 18:05, Jeff Gaines wrote:


    We need PR, pure PR.

    No w e dont.


    There's an argument for it, not that it produces more effective
    government, but that it produces *less* effective government.

    Almost all the harm in the world which isn't due to natural disasters is
    due to government action. A permanent coalition can do almost nothing
    too radical, since 'compromise' means not that everyone gets what they
    want, but that nobody gets what they want. Nobody wins, but nobody loses completely. The EU is much less harmful than it could be because of the national veto, which is why the ruling class are so desperate to get
    rid of it.

    Frank Herbert solved the problem of runaway government by creating the
    Bureau of Sabotage, which existed to derail government plans. I can't
    see that working in real life, but it was an entertaining concept. A
    permanent coalition seems to work almost as well.
    --
    Joe


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 22:28:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 22:10, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 in message <111eqva$2hojc$3@dont-email.me> The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 18:04, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    Moot. Parties with a leader, destined to be PM, have

    Not moot at all.
    We vote for MPs as people, not for their party so no bye-election if
    they switch parties.
    No,. we vote for the local representative of a party, andby extension,
    its leader

    Thats the REALITY no matter what you theory says

    Not my theory, it's the legal position.

    In theory, yes.

    In theory its illegal to shoplift too, or enter the country on a rubber
    boat without a visa or a passport...
    --
    "In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
    true: it is true because it is powerful."

    Lucas Bergkamp

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jun 23 22:29:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 22:22, Joe wrote:
    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 21:40:26 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 18:05, Jeff Gaines wrote:


    We need PR, pure PR.

    No w e dont.


    There's an argument for it, not that it produces more effective
    government, but that it produces *less* effective government.

    Indeed. And that's why the EU doesn't have elections at all.


    Almost all the harm in the world which isn't due to natural disasters is
    due to government action. A permanent coalition can do almost nothing
    too radical, since 'compromise' means not that everyone gets what they
    want, but that nobody gets what they want. Nobody wins, but nobody loses completely. The EU is much less harmful than it could be because of the national veto, which is why the ruling class are so desperate to get
    rid of it.

    Frank Herbert solved the problem of runaway government by creating the
    Bureau of Sabotage, which existed to derail government plans. I can't
    see that working in real life, but it was an entertaining concept. A permanent coalition seems to work almost as well.

    --
    Of what good are dead warriors? rCa Warriors are those who desire battle
    more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
    their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
    battle dance and dream of glory rCa The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
    that they are dead.
    Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob Martin@bob.martin@excite.com to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 06:29:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23 Jun 2026 at 10:26:49, Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    You ain't seen nuthin' yet.

    Sigh. Here we go again.

    Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
    Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa

    Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
    sensible policies. He'll need to be given a job to prevent him causing trouble on the back benches - but *please* not chancellor. How about
    Minister for Bacon Butties - where he can't do too much harm?

    Making Burnham PM is as stupid as the Yanks making Trump president.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob Martin@bob.martin@excite.com to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 06:36:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23 Jun 2026 at 18:58:49, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
    On 23 Jun 2026 17:07:21 GMT
    "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:



    people who
    understand the position know what they are voting for.


    Come on, can you not remember people berating Corbyn for failing to
    tell Labour voters clearly enough which way to vote in 2016?

    How many people really do think for themselves? And can you imagine a
    member of one of the tribes now in the UK failing to vote for one of
    their own if one is standing?

    This newsgroup is living proof that the over-70s should not have a
    say in the running of the country

    (I'm 84)

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From jkn@jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 08:06:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 07:36, Bob Martin wrote:
    On 23 Jun 2026 at 18:58:49, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
    On 23 Jun 2026 17:07:21 GMT
    "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:



    people who
    understand the position know what they are voting for.


    Come on, can you not remember people berating Corbyn for failing to
    tell Labour voters clearly enough which way to vote in 2016?

    How many people really do think for themselves? And can you imagine a
    member of one of the tribes now in the UK failing to vote for one of
    their own if one is standing?

    This newsgroup is living proof that the over-70s should not have a
    say in the running of the country

    (I'm 84)

    heh heh, agreed ;-)


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Abandoned Trolley@that.bloke@microsoft.com to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 08:13:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y



    This newsgroup is living proof that the over-70s should not have a
    say in the running of the country

    (I'm 84)



    or alternatively ... living proof that people under 35 shouldnt be
    allowed to vote
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Abandoned Trolley@that.bloke@microsoft.com to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 08:33:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y



    Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
    Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
    Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
    James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
    Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
    Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
    Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)


    Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
    elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
    Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.

    That's still 5 of the bastards



    and MacDonald was expelled from the party - so he might be PNG
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From jkn@jkn+nin@nicorp.co.uk to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 08:58:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 22:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 22:10, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 in message <111eqva$2hojc$3@dont-email.me> The Natural
    Philosopher wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 18:04, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    Moot. Parties with a leader, destined to be PM, have

    Not moot at all.
    We vote for MPs as people, not for their party so no bye-election if
    they switch parties.
    No,. we vote for the local representative of a party, andby
    extension, its leader

    Thats the REALITY no matter what you theory says

    Not my theory, it's the legal position.

    In theory, yes.

    In theory its illegal to shoplift too, or enter the country on a rubber
    boat without a visa or a passport...

    In practice too - you seem to be whinging about the *consequences* of
    that illegality, a locally and cognitively different thing. Please concentrate.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Hayter@roger@hayter.org to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 08:51:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23 Jun 2026 at 18:05:09 BST, ""Jeff Gaines"" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 in message <111e5q5$2arkq$1@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:

    On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 in message
    <20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:

    I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>> 3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
    been 2 others in the entire history of the party

    Thought there were more than that.
    I can think of four straightaway
    And there have been 7

    Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
    Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
    Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
    James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
    Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
    Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
    Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)


    Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
    elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
    Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.

    No PM has ever been elected in the UK.


    and Starmer and his band of clueless idiots received way less
    than half the votes actually cast (thanks to 'Reform') but still
    bagged a massive majority of MP's

    We need PR, pure PR.

    Agreed. The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.
    --

    Roger Hayter
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Abandoned Trolley@that.bloke@microsoft.com to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 09:53:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y


    We need PR, pure PR.

    Agreed. The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.



    but we already voted against it ?

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Gaines@jgnewsid@outlook.com to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 10:07:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 in message <111g5v5$2s6iu$1@dont-email.me> Abandoned Trolley wrote:


    We need PR, pure PR.

    Agreed. The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.



    but we already voted against it ?

    That was the system whereby votes were juggled about so nobody knew what
    was going on, made deliberately complex by the Conservatives so people wouldn't vote for it.

    Pure PR is simple, 40% of the vote gets you 40% of the seats, you vote
    for a party not a person (according to you people do anyway).

    We could trial it in the lords, need to reduce the number of seats to
    around 200 as well.
    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    There are 10 types of people in the world, those who do binary and those
    who don't.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 11:56:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 07:29, Bob Martin wrote:
    On 23 Jun 2026 at 10:26:49, Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    You ain't seen nuthin' yet.

    Sigh. Here we go again.

    Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
    Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa

    Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
    sensible policies. He'll need to be given a job to prevent him causing
    trouble on the back benches - but *please* not chancellor. How about
    Minister for Bacon Butties - where he can't do too much harm?

    Making Burnham PM is as stupid as the Yanks making Trump president.

    I was going to disagree, but then I membered that Sunak, Starmer, and
    Blair as well as Theresa May were all infinitely worse than anyone
    thought possible...
    --
    rCLIt is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
    authorities are wrong.rCY

    rCo Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 11:57:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 07:36, Bob Martin wrote:
    On 23 Jun 2026 at 18:58:49, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
    On 23 Jun 2026 17:07:21 GMT
    "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:



    people who
    understand the position know what they are voting for.


    Come on, can you not remember people berating Corbyn for failing to
    tell Labour voters clearly enough which way to vote in 2016?

    How many people really do think for themselves? And can you imagine a
    member of one of the tribes now in the UK failing to vote for one of
    their own if one is standing?

    This newsgroup is living proof that the over-70s should not have a
    say in the running of the country

    (I'm 84)

    And the Labour party is living proof that the under-70s should not have a
    say in the running of the country either.
    --
    Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

    "Saki"

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 12:01:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 09:53, Abandoned Trolley wrote:

    We need PR, pure PR.

    Agreed.-a The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.



    but we already voted against it ?

    Indeed.

    The thought of some hodgepodge coalition of Reform, Restore, the Ulster unionists and whatever is left of the Tory party fills me with as much
    horror as an alliance of the Greens, Lib Dems, what's left of Labour and
    the Welsh Nationalists.

    At leats what we have had as a result of FPP is the clearest indications
    that however morally appealing, the Labour party hasn't got enough
    talent to run a fish and chip shop.
    --
    Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

    "Saki"

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Mills@mills37.fslife@gmail.com to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 13:50:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 23/06/2026 13:58, Joe wrote:
    On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 11:26:49 +0100
    Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:


    Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
    Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa

    Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
    sensible policies.

    The second clause of your sentence does not follow from the first.

    Nobody sane would do what Miliband is doing *by* *choice*. He is either compelled or rewarded, as any possible replacement would be.

    Net Zero, as applied to a small developed country, cannot conceivably
    do what it says on the tin. Its purpose is to eliminate the economy it
    is applied to.


    No, Red Ed was driven by his own dogma, and Starmer was not strong
    enough to get a grip on him. My answer implies that he will hopefully be replaced by someone who takes a far more pragmatic approach to Net Zero,
    and who allows North Sea drilling and on-shore fracking to take place in
    order to improve our energy security.
    --
    Cheers,
    Roger
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Joe@joe@jretrading.com to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 14:58:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24 Jun 2026 10:07:56 GMT
    "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

    On 24/06/2026 in message <111g5v5$2s6iu$1@dont-email.me> Abandoned
    Trolley wrote:


    We need PR, pure PR.

    Agreed. The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.



    but we already voted against it ?

    That was the system whereby votes were juggled about so nobody knew
    what was going on, made deliberately complex by the Conservatives so
    people wouldn't vote for it.

    Pure PR is simple, 40% of the vote gets you 40% of the seats, you
    vote for a party not a person (according to you people do anyway).

    We could trial it in the lords, need to reduce the number of seats to
    around 200 as well.


    Why do we need any seats, in the Commons at least? Nearly all MPs vote
    the way their whips tell them to, or at least they do if they want to be
    MPs for that party again. MPs are just counters.
    --
    Joe

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Joe@joe@jretrading.com to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 15:04:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:01:42 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 09:53, Abandoned Trolley wrote:

    We need PR, pure PR.

    Agreed.-a The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.



    but we already voted against it ?

    Indeed.

    The thought of some hodgepodge coalition of Reform, Restore, the
    Ulster unionists and whatever is left of the Tory party fills me with
    as much horror as an alliance of the Greens, Lib Dems, what's left of
    Labour and the Welsh Nationalists.

    At leats what we have had as a result of FPP is the clearest
    indications that however morally appealing, the Labour party hasn't
    got enough talent to run a fish and chip shop.

    As I've suggested before, why not do away with GEs and have
    bye-elections everywhere every four years, with dates and locations
    scattered randomly?
    The very worst thing about the current system is that the winning party
    can tear up its manifesto the moment it gets in the door, and there are potentially five years of buyers' remorse before we get to kick them
    out. Continuous assessment might keep their minds on the voters for
    more than just one day.
    --
    Joe
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Marland@gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 14:33:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
    On 24 Jun 2026 10:07:56 GMT
    "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

    On 24/06/2026 in message <111g5v5$2s6iu$1@dont-email.me> Abandoned
    Trolley wrote:


    We need PR, pure PR.

    Agreed. The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.



    but we already voted against it ?

    That was the system whereby votes were juggled about so nobody knew
    what was going on, made deliberately complex by the Conservatives so
    people wouldn't vote for it.

    Pure PR is simple, 40% of the vote gets you 40% of the seats, you
    vote for a party not a person (according to you people do anyway).

    We could trial it in the lords, need to reduce the number of seats to
    around 200 as well.


    Why do we need any seats, in the Commons at least? Nearly all MPs vote
    the way their whips tell them to, or at least they do if they want to be
    MPs for that party again. MPs are just counters.


    I think a proportion of MPs should replaced by members of the public
    selected in a similar manner to those picked to do Jury service .

    GH

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Wed Jun 24 17:13:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 14:58, Joe wrote:
    On 24 Jun 2026 10:07:56 GMT
    "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

    On 24/06/2026 in message <111g5v5$2s6iu$1@dont-email.me> Abandoned
    Trolley wrote:


    We need PR, pure PR.

    Agreed. The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.



    but we already voted against it ?

    That was the system whereby votes were juggled about so nobody knew
    what was going on, made deliberately complex by the Conservatives so
    people wouldn't vote for it.

    Pure PR is simple, 40% of the vote gets you 40% of the seats, you
    vote for a party not a person (according to you people do anyway).

    We could trial it in the lords, need to reduce the number of seats to
    around 200 as well.


    Why do we need any seats, in the Commons at least? Nearly all MPs vote
    the way their whips tell them to, or at least they do if they want to be
    MPs for that party again. MPs are just counters.

    Why not rejoin the EU and have no useful MPs at all? Just unelected bureaucrats in Brussels faffing around fucking things up.

    Europe is not a political paradise by any means
    --
    "Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
    let them."



    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From me9@me9@privacy.net to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 01:42:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> wrote:


    We need PR, pure PR.

    Agreed. The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.



    but we already voted against it ?




    Not proper PR, it was teh party list system as introduced for EU elections
    as it was compulsort in the EU to havePR. The party list system suited teh party mandarins as teh poorest PR system that was acceptable to teh EU.

    A better system is a list of names, You rank the candidates by number and
    in none get 50% of the votes the last one drops out and his No.2s (Yuk!)get allocated as appropriate (rinse and repeat) until one gets 50%
    --
    braind
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From me9@me9@privacy.net to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 01:43:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:

    I think a proportion of MPs should replaced by members of the public
    selected in a similar manner to those picked to do Jury service .

    Why not all of em?
    --
    braind
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Abandoned Trolley@that.bloke@microsoft.com to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 07:43:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y


    A better system is a list of names, You rank the candidates by number and
    in none get 50% of the votes the last one drops out and his No.2s (Yuk!)get allocated as appropriate (rinse and repeat) until one gets 50%



    or .. since we have already used PR to vote aginst PR, then why not
    stick with the existing system.

    The only people interested in PR are the Lib-Dems
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 10:08:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 25/06/2026 07:43, Abandoned Trolley wrote:

    A better system is a list of names, You-a rank the candidates by number
    and
    in none get 50% of the votes the last one drops out and his No.2s
    (Yuk!)get
    allocated as appropriate (rinse and repeat) until one gets 50%



    or-a .. since we have already used PR to vote aginst PR, then why not
    stick with the existing system.

    The only people interested in PR are the Lib-Dems

    Remember democracy is not about the people getting their way, its about
    the ability to sack an executive, that is both impossible to do without,
    yet deeply flawed by its very nature. And always susceptible to corruption.

    The EU manges by not allowing itself ever to be sacked. So does Putin.
    And Xi wossisname. Trump is trying to do the same but will die before he succeeds.

    Tories failed us. We sacked em,
    Labour failed us,. We will sack them
    EU failed us. We sacked them.

    We will keep sacking them until some government hits upon enough right
    things to do once in power that we give them a second chance.
    --
    "It was a lot more fun being 20 in the 70's that it is being 70 in the 20's" Joew Walsh

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Abandoned Trolley@that.bloke@microsoft.com to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 10:50:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y



    We will keep sacking them until some government hits upon enough right things to do once in power that we give them a second chance.



    or (both radical and horrfying) sticks to their own manifesto ?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Joe@joe@jretrading.com to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 11:23:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 10:50:39 +0100
    Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> wrote:


    We will keep sacking them until some government hits upon enough
    right things to do once in power that we give them a second chance.



    or (both radical and horrfying) sticks to their own manifesto ?

    Manifestos once used to be sacred, so much so that the Opposition did
    not vote against their implementation. It was unthinkable for the
    government to *choose* not to implement a manifesto promise.

    That ended with that nice Mr Blair.
    --
    Joe

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Simon Simple@nothanks@nottoday.co.uk to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 11:28:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 15:04, Joe wrote:

    <xxxx>

    As I've suggested before, why not do away with GEs and have
    bye-elections everywhere every four years, with dates and locations
    scattered randomly?

    Yes, but not four years, a bit less so the vote date moves through the year.

    And as suggested before, two votes per person, one positive, one
    negative, and you can use both or neither. No need to change ballot
    paper format, just use eg X and 0 for +1 and -1.
    --
    ss

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Thu Jun 25 16:56:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 25/06/2026 10:50, Abandoned Trolley wrote:


    We will keep sacking them until some government hits upon enough right
    things to do once in power that we give them a second chance.



    or (both radical and horrfying) sticks to their own manifesto ?

    That is asking the impossible.
    Events happen. Policies change. We want a government that reacts
    honestly and competently to them
    --
    The difference bweteen a psychopath and a saint is that the psychpoath
    takes what he can and gives only what he must, but the saint gives
    everything he can and takes only what he needs.



    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Indy Jess John@bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jun 26 11:52:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 07:29, Bob Martin wrote:
    On 23 Jun 2026 at 10:26:49, Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    You ain't seen nuthin' yet.

    Sigh. Here we go again.

    Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
    Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa

    Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
    sensible policies. He'll need to be given a job to prevent him causing
    trouble on the back benches - but *please* not chancellor. How about
    Minister for Bacon Butties - where he can't do too much harm?

    Making Burnham PM is as stupid as the Yanks making Trump president.

    I see it as replacing an incompetent with an irresponsible.
    Heads I lose, Tails I also lose.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Fredxx@fredxx@spam.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jun 26 12:00:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 11:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 24/06/2026 07:36, Bob Martin wrote:
    On 23 Jun 2026 at 18:58:49, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
    On 23 Jun 2026 17:07:21 GMT
    "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:



    -a people who
    understand the position-a know what they are voting for.


    Come on, can you not remember people berating Corbyn for failing to
    tell Labour voters clearly enough which way to vote in 2016?

    How many people really do think for themselves? And can you imagine a
    member of one of the tribes now in the UK failing to vote for one of
    their own if one is standing?

    This newsgroup is living proof that the over-70s should not have a
    say in the running of the country

    (I'm 84)

    And the Labour party is living proof that the under-70s should not have a
    say in the running of the country either.

    Only those who make a net contribution to the exchequer should be
    allowed to vote. Those on benefits, such as pensions should
    automatically forfeit the right to vote.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Fredxx@fredxx@spam.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jun 26 12:07:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 24/06/2026 09:53, Abandoned Trolley wrote:

    We need PR, pure PR.

    Agreed.-a The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.



    but we already voted against it ?

    It says much about our electorate who associate the Alternative Vote
    system with PR.

    You do realise they are very different? The referendum was for AV that
    is still FPTP in all but name. It was shamefully sold short by the LibDems.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a78b04840f0b62b22cbbffc/first-past-the-post-alternative-vote.pdf

    One MP for one constituency either way. It is not PR where the elected officials are independent of any constituency.



    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jun 26 18:17:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 26/06/2026 11:52, Indy Jess John wrote:

    Making Burnham PM is as stupid as the Yanks making Trump president.

    I see it as replacing an incompetent with an irresponsible.
    Heads I lose, Tails I also lose.

    And interesting POV.

    I think 'just another speccy twat' covers it all in the vernacular.
    --
    "What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
    "I don't."
    "Don't what?"
    "Think about Gay Marriage."


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2