You ain't seen nuthin' yet.
Sigh. Here we go again.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
You ain't seen nuthin' yet.
Sigh. Here we go again.
Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
You ain't seen nuthin' yet.
Sigh. Here we go again.
Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
Millibrain as Chancellor of the Exchequera
On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:He was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Lol.
You ain't seen nuthin' yet.Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
Sigh. Here we go again.
Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa
I got the same sinking feeling when Blair became PM.
He was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term
He was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term
Wilson ?
He was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term
Wilson ?I admit being able to con the public into voting for him twice was quite
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
You ain't seen nuthin' yet.
Sigh. Here we go again.
Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa
On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:26:43 +1000, Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> wrote:
-aHe was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term
Wilson ?
I should have said consecutively
Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
sensible policies. He'll need to be given a job to prevent him causing trouble on the back benches - but *please* not chancellor. How about Minister for Bacon Butties - where he can't do too much harm?
On 23/06/2026 10:01, Rod Speed wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:26:43 +1000, Abandoned Trolley
<that.bloke@microsoft.com> wrote:
-aHe was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term
Wilson ?
I should have said consecutively
OK
It occurs to me that Labour supporters have a rather distorted view of
the long term popularity of their party
I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the 3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only been 2
others in the entire history of the party
On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:The second clause of your sentence does not follow from the first.
Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCaWell. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
sensible policies.
On 23/06/2026 12:02, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
On 23/06/2026 10:01, Rod Speed wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:26:43 +1000, Abandoned Trolley
<that.bloke@microsoft.com> wrote:
-aHe was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term
Wilson ?
I should have said consecutively
OK
It occurs to me that Labour supporters have a rather distorted view
of the long term popularity of their party
I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the
3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
been 2 others in the entire history of the party
Thought there were more than that.
I can think of four straightaway
And there have been 7
Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)
On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 11:26:49 +0100
Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:
Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa
sensible policies.
The second clause of your sentence does not follow from the first.
Nobody sane would do what Miliband is doing *by* *choice*. He is either compelled or rewarded, as any possible replacement would be.
Net Zero, as applied to a small developed country, cannot conceivably
do what it says on the tin. Its purpose is to eliminate the economy it
is applied to.
On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 13:51:46 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 23/06/2026 12:02, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
On 23/06/2026 10:01, Rod Speed wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:26:43 +1000, Abandoned Trolley
<that.bloke@microsoft.com> wrote:
-aHe was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term
Wilson ?
I should have said consecutively
OK
It occurs to me that Labour supporters have a rather distorted view
of the long term popularity of their party
I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the
3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
been 2 others in the entire history of the party
Thought there were more than that.
I can think of four straightaway
And there have been 7
Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)
Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.
I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the
3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
been 2 others in the entire history of the party
Thought there were more than that.
I can think of four straightaway
And there have been 7
Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)
Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.
On 23/06/2026 in message
<20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:
I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the
3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
been 2 others in the entire history of the party
Thought there were more than that.
I can think of four straightaway
And there have been 7
Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)
Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.
No PM has ever been elected in the UK.
On 23/06/2026 13:58, Joe wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 11:26:49 +0100
Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:
Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa
sensible policies.
The second clause of your sentence does not follow from the first.
Nobody sane would do what Miliband is doing *by* *choice*. He is
either compelled or rewarded, as any possible replacement would be.
Net Zero, as applied to a small developed country, cannotSo we all run back to Mama EU and say we are sorry...
conceivably do what it says on the tin. Its purpose is to eliminate
the economy it is applied to.
On 23/06/2026 in message
<20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:
I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the
3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
been 2 others in the entire history of the party
Thought there were more than that.
I can think of four straightaway
And there have been 7
Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)
Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.
No PM has ever been elected in the UK.
On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 14:22:48 +0100Because the BBC the guardian and the labour party tell us we have to.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 23/06/2026 13:58, Joe wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 11:26:49 +0100So we all run back to Mama EU and say we are sorry...
Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:
Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa
sensible policies.
The second clause of your sentence does not follow from the first.
Nobody sane would do what Miliband is doing *by* *choice*. He is
either compelled or rewarded, as any possible replacement would be.
Net Zero, as applied to a small developed country, cannot
conceivably do what it says on the tin. Its purpose is to eliminate
the economy it is applied to.
Why would we do that?
not sorry. It's only the parasites who want to ride on a bigger gravy
train that are.
On 23/06/2026 in message
<20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:
I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the
3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
been 2 others in the entire history of the party
Thought there were more than that.
I can think of four straightaway
And there have been 7
Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)
Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.
No PM has ever been elected in the UK.
For God's sake, people vote in a General Election for the party leaderfairly but not universally true
they like best. All this business about MPs and representation is
rubbish.
On 23/06/2026 10:01, Rod Speed wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 18:26:43 +1000, Abandoned Trolley
<that.bloke@microsoft.com> wrote:
I should have said consecutively
He was the only labour PM to manage more than just one term
Wilson ?
OK
It occurs to me that Labour supporters have a rather distorted view of
the long term popularity of their party
I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the 3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only been 2
others in the entire history of the party
On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 23/06/2026 in message >><20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:Moot. Parties with a leader, destined to be PM, have
I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only >>>>>been 2 others in the entire history of the party
Thought there were more than that.
I can think of four straightaway
And there have been 7
Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)
Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as >>>Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.
No PM has ever been elected in the UK.
On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 23/06/2026 in message >><20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:
I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only >>>>>been 2 others in the entire history of the party
Thought there were more than that.
I can think of four straightaway
And there have been 7
Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)
Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as >>>Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.
No PM has ever been elected in the UK.
and Starmer and his band of clueless idiots received way less
than half the votes actually cast (thanks to 'Reform') but still
bagged a massive majority of MP's
On 23 Jun 2026 13:52:23 GMT
"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
On 23/06/2026 in message
<20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:
I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only >>>>>been 2 others in the entire history of the party
Thought there were more than that.
I can think of four straightaway
And there have been 7
Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)
Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as >>>Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.
No PM has ever been elected in the UK.
No, but it is assumed that the leader of the party at the time of the >election will be PM. Callaghan and Brown were not party leader when the
last GE was held.
For God's sake, people vote in a General Election for the party leader
they like best. All this business about MPs and representation is
rubbish.
On 23/06/2026 in message <111eag0$2cdpr$2@dont-email.me> The Natural > Philosopher wrote:Most vote for the party, not for the particular individual in their seat> so no bye-election if they switch parties.
On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 23/06/2026 in message >>> <20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:Moot. Parties with a leader, destined to be PM, have
I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>> 3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only>>>>>> been 2 others in the entire history of the party
Thought there were more than that.
I can think of four straightaway
And there have been 7
Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)
Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.
No PM has ever been elected in the UK.
Not moot at all.
We vote for MPs as people, not for their party
The party with most MPs governs and its leader is PM, whenever appointed.
people who
understand the position know what they are voting for.
On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 03:04:37 +1000, Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com>
wrote:
On 23/06/2026 in message <111eag0$2cdpr$2@dont-email.me> The Natural >>Philosopher wrote:
On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 23/06/2026 in message >>>><20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:Moot. Parties with a leader, destined to be PM, have
I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>>>3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only >>>>>>>been 2 others in the entire history of the party
Thought there were more than that.
I can think of four straightaway
And there have been 7
Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)
Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were >>>>>elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as >>>>>Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.
No PM has ever been elected in the UK.
Not moot at all.
We vote for MPs as people, not for their party
Most vote for the party, not for the particular individual in their seat
On 23 Jun 2026 17:07:21 GMT
"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
people who
understand the position know what they are voting for.
Come on, can you not remember people berating Corbyn for failing to
tell Labour voters clearly enough which way to vote in 2016?
How many people really do think for themselves? And can you imagine a
member of one of the tribes now in the UK failing to vote for one of
their own if one is standing?
On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
You ain't seen nuthin' yet.
Sigh. Here we go again.
Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa
sensible policies. He'll need to be given a job to prevent him causing trouble on the back benches - but *please* not chancellor. How about Minister for Bacon Butties - where he can't do too much harm?
No,. we vote for the local representative of a party, andby extension,Moot. Parties with a leader, destined to be PM, have
Not moot at all.
We vote for MPs as people, not for their party so no bye-election if
they switch parties.
The party with most MPs governs and its leader is PM, whenever appointed.--
On 23/06/2026 in message <111e5q5$2arkq$1@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:
On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 23/06/2026 in message
<20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:
I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>> 3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
been 2 others in the entire history of the party
Thought there were more than that.
I can think of four straightaway
And there have been 7
Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)
Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.
No PM has ever been elected in the UK.
and Starmer and his band of clueless idiots received way less
than half the votes actually cast (thanks to 'Reform') but still
bagged a massive majority of MP's
We need PR, pure PR.
On 23/06/2026 in message <111e5q5$2arkq$1@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:
On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 23/06/2026 in message
<20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:
I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>> 3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
been 2 others in the entire history of the party
Thought there were more than that.
I can think of four straightaway
And there have been 7
Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)
Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.
No PM has ever been elected in the UK.
and Starmer and his band of clueless idiots received way less
than half the votes actually cast (thanks to 'Reform') but still
bagged a massive majority of MP's
We need PR, pure PR.
On 23/06/2026 18:04, Jeff Gaines wrote:
No,. we vote for the local representative of a party, andby extension, its >leaderMoot. Parties with a leader, destined to be PM, have
Not moot at all.
We vote for MPs as people, not for their party so no bye-election if they >>switch parties.
Thats the REALITY no matter what you theory says
On 23/06/2026 18:05, Jeff Gaines wrote:And its not just holding power either, having an influence on policy
On 23/06/2026 in message <111e5q5$2arkq$1@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:
On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:We need PR, pure PR.
On 23/06/2026 in message >>>> <20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:
I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>>> 3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only >>>>>>> been 2 others in the entire history of the party
Thought there were more than that.
I can think of four straightaway
And there have been 7
Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)
Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as>>>>> Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.
No PM has ever been elected in the UK.
and Starmer and his band of clueless idiots received way less
than half the votes actually cast (thanks to 'Reform') but still
bagged a massive majority of MP's
The idea of a minority extreme party holding power fills me with horror. > Israel is a case in point.
On 23/06/2026 18:05, Jeff Gaines wrote:
We need PR, pure PR.No w e dont.
On 23/06/2026 in message <111eqva$2hojc$3@dont-email.me> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/06/2026 18:04, Jeff Gaines wrote:
No,. we vote for the local representative of a party, andby extension,Moot. Parties with a leader, destined to be PM, have
Not moot at all.
We vote for MPs as people, not for their party so no bye-election if
they switch parties.
its leader
Thats the REALITY no matter what you theory says
Not my theory, it's the legal position.
On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 21:40:26 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 23/06/2026 18:05, Jeff Gaines wrote:
No w e dont.
We need PR, pure PR.
There's an argument for it, not that it produces more effective
government, but that it produces *less* effective government.
Almost all the harm in the world which isn't due to natural disasters is
due to government action. A permanent coalition can do almost nothing
too radical, since 'compromise' means not that everyone gets what they
want, but that nobody gets what they want. Nobody wins, but nobody loses completely. The EU is much less harmful than it could be because of the national veto, which is why the ruling class are so desperate to get
rid of it.
Frank Herbert solved the problem of runaway government by creating the
Bureau of Sabotage, which existed to derail government plans. I can't
see that working in real life, but it was an entertaining concept. A permanent coalition seems to work almost as well.
On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
You ain't seen nuthin' yet.
Sigh. Here we go again.
Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa
sensible policies. He'll need to be given a job to prevent him causing trouble on the back benches - but *please* not chancellor. How about
Minister for Bacon Butties - where he can't do too much harm?
On 23 Jun 2026 17:07:21 GMT
"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
people who
understand the position know what they are voting for.
Come on, can you not remember people berating Corbyn for failing to
tell Labour voters clearly enough which way to vote in 2016?
How many people really do think for themselves? And can you imagine a
member of one of the tribes now in the UK failing to vote for one of
their own if one is standing?
On 23 Jun 2026 at 18:58:49, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
On 23 Jun 2026 17:07:21 GMT
"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
people who
understand the position know what they are voting for.
Come on, can you not remember people berating Corbyn for failing to
tell Labour voters clearly enough which way to vote in 2016?
How many people really do think for themselves? And can you imagine a
member of one of the tribes now in the UK failing to vote for one of
their own if one is standing?
This newsgroup is living proof that the over-70s should not have a
say in the running of the country
(I'm 84)
This newsgroup is living proof that the over-70s should not have a
say in the running of the country
(I'm 84)
That's still 5 of the bastards
Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)
Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.
On 23/06/2026 22:10, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 23/06/2026 in message <111eqva$2hojc$3@dont-email.me> The Natural
Philosopher wrote:
On 23/06/2026 18:04, Jeff Gaines wrote:
No,. we vote for the local representative of a party, andbyMoot. Parties with a leader, destined to be PM, have
Not moot at all.
We vote for MPs as people, not for their party so no bye-election if
they switch parties.
extension, its leader
Thats the REALITY no matter what you theory says
Not my theory, it's the legal position.
In theory, yes.
In theory its illegal to shoplift too, or enter the country on a rubber
boat without a visa or a passport...
On 23/06/2026 in message <111e5q5$2arkq$1@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:
On 23/06/2026 14:52, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 23/06/2026 in message
<20260623140402.118fa8d2@jrenewsid.jretrading.com> Joe wrote:
I am well past pension age, but in my lifetime Starmer is only the >>>>>> 3rd Labour PM elected by the great unwashed - and there have only
been 2 others in the entire history of the party
Thought there were more than that.
I can think of four straightaway
And there have been 7
Ramsay MacDonald (1924, 1929rCo1935)
Clement Attlee (1945rCo1951)
Harold Wilson (1964rCo1970, 1974rCo1976)
James Callaghan (1976rCo1979)
Tony Blair (1997rCo2007)
Gordon Brown (2007rCo2010)
Keir Starmer (2024rCopresent)
Depends on the exact assertion. Neither Callaghan nor Brown were
elected PM at a public election, they simply took over the post as
Burnham will do, on the nod from their own colleagues.
No PM has ever been elected in the UK.
and Starmer and his band of clueless idiots received way less
than half the votes actually cast (thanks to 'Reform') but still
bagged a massive majority of MP's
We need PR, pure PR.
We need PR, pure PR.
Agreed. The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.
We need PR, pure PR.
Agreed. The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.
but we already voted against it ?
On 23 Jun 2026 at 10:26:49, Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
You ain't seen nuthin' yet.
Sigh. Here we go again.
Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa
sensible policies. He'll need to be given a job to prevent him causing
trouble on the back benches - but *please* not chancellor. How about
Minister for Bacon Butties - where he can't do too much harm?
Making Burnham PM is as stupid as the Yanks making Trump president.
On 23 Jun 2026 at 18:58:49, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
On 23 Jun 2026 17:07:21 GMT
"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
people who
understand the position know what they are voting for.
Come on, can you not remember people berating Corbyn for failing to
tell Labour voters clearly enough which way to vote in 2016?
How many people really do think for themselves? And can you imagine a
member of one of the tribes now in the UK failing to vote for one of
their own if one is standing?
This newsgroup is living proof that the over-70s should not have a
say in the running of the country
(I'm 84)
We need PR, pure PR.
Agreed.-a The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.
but we already voted against it ?
On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 11:26:49 +0100
Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:
Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa
sensible policies.
The second clause of your sentence does not follow from the first.
Nobody sane would do what Miliband is doing *by* *choice*. He is either compelled or rewarded, as any possible replacement would be.
Net Zero, as applied to a small developed country, cannot conceivably
do what it says on the tin. Its purpose is to eliminate the economy it
is applied to.
On 24/06/2026 in message <111g5v5$2s6iu$1@dont-email.me> Abandoned
Trolley wrote:
We need PR, pure PR.
Agreed. The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.
but we already voted against it ?
That was the system whereby votes were juggled about so nobody knew
what was going on, made deliberately complex by the Conservatives so
people wouldn't vote for it.
Pure PR is simple, 40% of the vote gets you 40% of the seats, you
vote for a party not a person (according to you people do anyway).
We could trial it in the lords, need to reduce the number of seats to
around 200 as well.
On 24/06/2026 09:53, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
We need PR, pure PR.
Agreed.-a The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.
but we already voted against it ?Indeed.
The thought of some hodgepodge coalition of Reform, Restore, the
Ulster unionists and whatever is left of the Tory party fills me with
as much horror as an alliance of the Greens, Lib Dems, what's left of
Labour and the Welsh Nationalists.
At leats what we have had as a result of FPP is the clearest
indications that however morally appealing, the Labour party hasn't
got enough talent to run a fish and chip shop.
On 24 Jun 2026 10:07:56 GMT
"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
On 24/06/2026 in message <111g5v5$2s6iu$1@dont-email.me> Abandoned
Trolley wrote:
We need PR, pure PR.
Agreed. The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.
but we already voted against it ?
That was the system whereby votes were juggled about so nobody knew
what was going on, made deliberately complex by the Conservatives so
people wouldn't vote for it.
Pure PR is simple, 40% of the vote gets you 40% of the seats, you
vote for a party not a person (according to you people do anyway).
We could trial it in the lords, need to reduce the number of seats to
around 200 as well.
Why do we need any seats, in the Commons at least? Nearly all MPs vote
the way their whips tell them to, or at least they do if they want to be
MPs for that party again. MPs are just counters.
On 24 Jun 2026 10:07:56 GMT
"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
On 24/06/2026 in message <111g5v5$2s6iu$1@dont-email.me> Abandoned
Trolley wrote:
We need PR, pure PR.
Agreed. The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.
but we already voted against it ?
That was the system whereby votes were juggled about so nobody knew
what was going on, made deliberately complex by the Conservatives so
people wouldn't vote for it.
Pure PR is simple, 40% of the vote gets you 40% of the seats, you
vote for a party not a person (according to you people do anyway).
We could trial it in the lords, need to reduce the number of seats to
around 200 as well.
Why do we need any seats, in the Commons at least? Nearly all MPs vote
the way their whips tell them to, or at least they do if they want to be
MPs for that party again. MPs are just counters.
We need PR, pure PR.
Agreed. The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.
but we already voted against it ?
I think a proportion of MPs should replaced by members of the public
selected in a similar manner to those picked to do Jury service .
A better system is a list of names, You rank the candidates by number and
in none get 50% of the votes the last one drops out and his No.2s (Yuk!)get allocated as appropriate (rinse and repeat) until one gets 50%
A better system is a list of names, You-a rank the candidates by number
and
in none get 50% of the votes the last one drops out and his No.2s
(Yuk!)get
allocated as appropriate (rinse and repeat) until one gets 50%
or-a .. since we have already used PR to vote aginst PR, then why not
stick with the existing system.
The only people interested in PR are the Lib-Dems
We will keep sacking them until some government hits upon enough right things to do once in power that we give them a second chance.
We will keep sacking them until some government hits upon enough
right things to do once in power that we give them a second chance.
or (both radical and horrfying) sticks to their own manifesto ?
As I've suggested before, why not do away with GEs and have
bye-elections everywhere every four years, with dates and locations
scattered randomly?
We will keep sacking them until some government hits upon enough right
things to do once in power that we give them a second chance.
or (both radical and horrfying) sticks to their own manifesto ?
On 23 Jun 2026 at 10:26:49, Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22/06/2026 12:33, Spike wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Well. definitely remove him from Energy so that we can adopt some
You ain't seen nuthin' yet.
Sigh. Here we go again.
Apparently, there are appeals being made to Burnham not to appoint
Millibrain as Chancellor of the ExchequerrCa
sensible policies. He'll need to be given a job to prevent him causing
trouble on the back benches - but *please* not chancellor. How about
Minister for Bacon Butties - where he can't do too much harm?
Making Burnham PM is as stupid as the Yanks making Trump president.
On 24/06/2026 07:36, Bob Martin wrote:
On 23 Jun 2026 at 18:58:49, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:And the Labour party is living proof that the under-70s should not have a
On 23 Jun 2026 17:07:21 GMT
"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
-a people who
understand the position-a know what they are voting for.
Come on, can you not remember people berating Corbyn for failing to
tell Labour voters clearly enough which way to vote in 2016?
How many people really do think for themselves? And can you imagine a
member of one of the tribes now in the UK failing to vote for one of
their own if one is standing?
This newsgroup is living proof that the over-70s should not have a
say in the running of the country
(I'm 84)
say in the running of the country either.
We need PR, pure PR.
Agreed.-a The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.
but we already voted against it ?
I see it as replacing an incompetent with an irresponsible.
Making Burnham PM is as stupid as the Yanks making Trump president.
Heads I lose, Tails I also lose.
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