• Alternator phase angle (importance of...)

    From David Paste@pastedavid@gmail.com to uk.d-i-y on Mon May 11 12:22:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Hello all. I have been reading a book again, things cannot go well...

    I have no idea if the words I use are correct nomenclature, so if it
    seems I'm over explaining my question, it's rooted in a known ignorance.

    A car alternator has three phases positioned at 120 degrees to each
    other. The negative "sweep" are also obviously at 120 degrees but 180
    degrees out of phase. This I understand.

    In the graph of this, the peaks and troughs are regularly spaced along
    the time time axis. When rectified, the peaks are all positive and
    seperated by 60 degrees. This I understand.

    My question is: Do the stator widings have to be configured at 120 degrees?

    Without changing the physical position of the stator windings, it seems
    that they could be wired up so each peak, when graphed, can be at 0, 60,
    and 120 degrees, with thhe troughs at 180, 240, and 300 degrees.

    This graph leaves regular gaps between the groups of peaks and troughs,
    but when the generated electricity is rectified, the peaks are - like
    the 120 degrees-phased layout - all seperated by 60 degrees.

    Is there a reason one method is used and the other isn't?

    Thank you all in advance for putting up with my trivial questions!


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  • From Fredxx@fredxx@spam.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri May 15 23:25:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 11/05/2026 12:22, David Paste wrote:
    Hello all. I have been reading a book again, things cannot go well...

    I have no idea if the words I use are correct nomenclature, so if it
    seems I'm over explaining my question, it's rooted in a known ignorance.

    A car alternator has three phases positioned at 120 degrees to each
    other. The negative "sweep" are also obviously at 120 degrees but 180 degrees out of phase. This I understand.

    No. Peak voltage will be at 0 degrees where the other two phases at 120
    and 240 degrees.

    In the graph of this, the peaks and troughs are regularly spaced along
    the time time axis. When rectified, the peaks are all positive and
    seperated by 60 degrees. This I understand.

    My question is: Do the stator widings have to be configured at 120 degrees?

    With respect to each other, yes. In practice there are multiple pole
    pairs where the polarity changes multiple times each revolution.

    Without changing the physical position of the stator windings, it seems
    that they could be wired up so each peak, when graphed, can be at 0, 60,
    and 120 degrees, with thhe troughs at 180, 240, and 300 degrees.

    They are usually connected in a star formation. That means the peak
    between windings voltage is root(3) x single (star to phase)

    This graph leaves regular gaps between the groups of peaks and troughs,
    but when the generated electricity is rectified, the peaks are - like
    the 120 degrees-phased layout - all seperated by 60 degrees.

    Is there a reason one method is used and the other isn't?

    Thank you all in advance for putting up with my trivial questions!

    If the phases output in a non symmetrical way the output will not
    conform to 3-phase and be more akin to single phase. The efficiency
    would be awful.

    My explanation here is nothing like the quality found in Wikipedia and
    other articles on 3-phase alternators. You might also be better off
    referring to sketches that you can upload to photo sharing sites and
    link here.
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  • From David Paste@pastedavid@gmail.com to uk.d-i-y on Sun May 17 21:29:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 15/05/2026 23:25, Fredxx wrote:

    If the phases output in a non symmetrical way the output will not
    conform to 3-phase and be more akin to single phase. The efficiency
    would be awful.

    Thanks.

    My explanation here is nothing like the quality found in Wikipedia and
    other articles on 3-phase alternators.

    The article on wikipedia was too much for me to understand. I very much
    needed a simple explanation.
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  • From Abandoned Trolley@that.bloke@microsoft.com to uk.d-i-y on Mon May 18 08:34:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 15/05/2026 23:25, Fredxx wrote:
    On 11/05/2026 12:22, David Paste wrote:
    Hello all. I have been reading a book again, things cannot go well...

    I have no idea if the words I use are correct nomenclature, so if it
    seems I'm over explaining my question, it's rooted in a known ignorance.

    A car alternator has three phases positioned at 120 degrees to each
    other. The negative "sweep" are also obviously at 120 degrees but 180
    degrees out of phase. This I understand.

    No. Peak voltage will be at 0 degrees where the other two phases at 120
    and 240 degrees.

    In the graph of this, the peaks and troughs are regularly spaced along
    the time time axis. When rectified, the peaks are all positive and
    seperated by 60 degrees. This I understand.

    My question is: Do the stator widings have to be configured at 120
    degrees?

    With respect to each other, yes. In practice there are multiple pole
    pairs where the polarity changes multiple times each revolution.

    Without changing the physical position of the stator windings, it
    seems that they could be wired up so each peak, when graphed, can be
    at 0, 60, and 120 degrees, with thhe troughs at 180, 240, and 300
    degrees.

    They are usually connected in a star formation. That means the peak
    between windings voltage is root(3) x single (star to phase)

    This graph leaves regular gaps between the groups of peaks and
    troughs, but when the generated electricity is rectified, the peaks
    are - like the 120 degrees-phased layout - all seperated by 60 degrees.

    Is there a reason one method is used and the other isn't?

    Thank you all in advance for putting up with my trivial questions!

    If the phases output in a non symmetrical way the output will not
    conform to 3-phase and be more akin to single phase. The efficiency
    would be awful.

    My explanation here is nothing like the quality found in Wikipedia and
    other articles on 3-phase alternators. You might also be better off referring to sketches that you can upload to photo sharing sites and
    link here.


    We seem to have overlooked something here ...


    the purpose of an alternator in a car is to provide a DC supply, NOT a 3
    phase supply - "efficient" or otherwise


    also ... theres nothing limiting the number of stator windings to 3

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Mon May 18 13:33:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 18/05/2026 08:34, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
    We seem to have overlooked something here ...


    the purpose of an alternator in a car is to provide a DC supply, NOT a 3 phase supply - "efficient" or otherwise


    No. The alternartor is a 3 or more phase AC generator. The 6 diodes and
    the electronics that turn it into a regulated DC supply are nor strictly
    part of an 'alternator'

    also ... theres nothing limiting the number of stator windings to 3

    Well obviously there is. It boils down to cost and complexity with no concomitant performance gains
    --
    WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.

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