You're a knowledgeable lot here, so I thought I would ask: ...
Every year, about this time, my lawn mower stops working. So I siphon
out the fuel, dismantle the carburettor and dispose of the water I find there. Today I siphoned out about a litre of petrol, in which there was probably 50ml water. The outlet from the fuel tank is not at the
bottom, so I imagine this water collects at the lowest point and when
there is sufficient it flows to the carburettor and fills the float
chamber, stopping the engine.
Where does the water come from?
Why do petrol car engines not suffer from the same problem?
Is there something I can put in the contaminated petrol which will
dissolve in both petrol and water, so this solution will be drawn
through the carburettor and keep the engine running?
On 4 Apr 2026 at 17:42:13 GMT+1, "Graham J" <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
You're a knowledgeable lot here, so I thought I would ask: ...
Every year, about this time, my lawn mower stops working. So I siphon
out the fuel, dismantle the carburettor and dispose of the water I find
there. Today I siphoned out about a litre of petrol, in which there was
probably 50ml water. The outlet from the fuel tank is not at the
bottom, so I imagine this water collects at the lowest point and when
there is sufficient it flows to the carburettor and fills the float
chamber, stopping the engine.
Where does the water come from?
Why do petrol car engines not suffer from the same problem?
Is there something I can put in the contaminated petrol which will
dissolve in both petrol and water, so this solution will be drawn
through the carburettor and keep the engine running?
I can't answer your question, although condensation springs to mind as the cause, but try posting to uk.d-i-y. There are some quite knowledgable users over there.
You're a knowledgeable lot here, so I thought I would ask: ...
Every year, about this time, my lawn mower stops working. So I siphon
out the fuel, dismantle the carburettor and dispose of the water I find there. Today I siphoned out about a litre of petrol, in which there was probably 50ml water. The outlet from the fuel tank is not at the
bottom, so I imagine this water collects at the lowest point and when
there is sufficient it flows to the carburettor and fills the float
chamber, stopping the engine.
Where does the water come from?
Why do petrol car engines not suffer from the same problem?
Is there something I can put in the contaminated petrol which will
dissolve in both petrol and water, so this solution will be drawn
through the carburettor and keep the engine running?
You're a knowledgeable lot here, so I thought I would ask: ...
Every year, about this time, my lawn mower stops working. So I siphon
out the fuel, dismantle the carburettor and dispose of the water I find there. Today I siphoned out about a litre of petrol, in which there was probably 50ml water. The outlet from the fuel tank is not at the
bottom, so I imagine this water collects at the lowest point and when
there is sufficient it flows to the carburettor and fills the float
chamber, stopping the engine.
Where does the water come from?
Why do petrol car engines not suffer from the same problem?
Is there something I can put in the contaminated petrol which will
dissolve in both petrol and water, so this solution will be drawn
through the carburettor and keep the engine running?
A litre is quite a big tank
Looking it up, E10 petrol is 10% ethanol which is hygroscopic so if you've been storing the petrol for a while it'll likely be contaminated from the air.
What kind of lawnmower? A litre is quite a big tank and 50ml is much more then I'd expect simply from condensation. Is the engine water cooled ?
Where does the water come from?
Is there something I can put in the contaminated petrol which will
dissolve in both petrol and water, so this solution will be drawn
through the carburettor and keep the engine running?
Liz suggested Isopropanol. Is there a chemist here who can explain why
that would work, please?
Is there something I can put in the contaminated petrol which will
dissolve in both petrol and water, so this solution will be drawn
through the carburettor and keep the engine running?
Liz suggested Isopropanol. Is there a chemist here who can explain why
that would work, please?
On 5 Apr 2026 at 08:19:57 GMT+1, "Graham J" <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
Liz suggested Isopropanol. Is there a chemist here who can explain why that would work, please?
I'm only guessing but it's very volatile so would it vaporise more easily than
petrol and presumably it's very flammable?
You're a knowledgeable lot here, so I thought I would ask: ...
Every year, about this time, my lawn mower stops working. So I siphon
out the fuel, dismantle the carburettor and dispose of the water I find there.
Today I siphoned out about a litre of petrol, in which there was
probably 50ml water. The outlet from the fuel tank is not at the
bottom, so I imagine this water collects at the lowest point and when
there is sufficient it flows to the carburettor and fills the float
chamber, stopping the engine.
Where does the water come from?
Why do petrol car engines not suffer from the same problem?
Is there something I can put in the contaminated petrol which will
dissolve in both petrol and water, so this solution will be drawn
through the carburettor and keep the engine running?
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
You're a knowledgeable lot here, so I thought I would ask: ...
Every year, about this time, my lawn mower stops working. So I siphon
out the fuel, dismantle the carburettor and dispose of the water I find there. Today I siphoned out about a litre of petrol, in which there was probably 50ml water. The outlet from the fuel tank is not at the
bottom, so I imagine this water collects at the lowest point and when
there is sufficient it flows to the carburettor and fills the float chamber, stopping the engine.
Where does the water come from?
I would suspect condensation first. As the temperature varies, the air
in the tank expands and contracts, drawing in moist air and evaporating petrol. The temperature of the petrol in the tank will be slightly
below that of the surroundings, so condensation is most likely to occur inside the tank.
Once the water has condensed, it will sink below the layer of petrol and
will not be able to evaporate, so it will build up.
BTW, petrol is a mixture. If left alone for a long time
the lighter components will have evaporated,
making the first cold start in spring difficult,
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:[1]
[...]
BTW, petrol is a mixture. If left alone for a long time
the lighter components will have evaporated,
making the first cold start in spring difficult,
It is even more interesting with 2-stroke mixture. The petrol
evaporates leaving the oil at a much higher concentration than usual.
This is a good thing for an engine that is starting for the first time
in ages and benefits from a bit of extra lubrication - however it will
often attract unwelcome attention from passers-by and from any of your neighbours who live downwind.
My Allen Scythe uses an unusually strong mix of 16:1 petrol/oil, so it
is smoky at the best of times. The recommended oil is 'straight' SAE30, which is a lot more pungent than the modern refined 2-stroke oils. I remember that smell from worn-out car engines in the 1950s.
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
You're a knowledgeable lot here, so I thought I would ask: ...
Every year, about this time, my lawn mower stops working. So I siphon
out the fuel, dismantle the carburettor and dispose of the water I find
there. Today I siphoned out about a litre of petrol, in which there was >>> probably 50ml water. The outlet from the fuel tank is not at the
bottom, so I imagine this water collects at the lowest point and when
there is sufficient it flows to the carburettor and fills the float
chamber, stopping the engine.
Where does the water come from?
I would suspect condensation first. As the temperature varies, the air
in the tank expands and contracts, drawing in moist air and evaporating
petrol. The temperature of the petrol in the tank will be slightly
below that of the surroundings, so condensation is most likely to occur
inside the tank.
Once the water has condensed, it will sink below the layer of petrol and
will not be able to evaporate, so it will build up.
That may have been the case long ago, but no longer.
Nowaday petrol at the pump is E95, that is, 5% of ethanol added.
The technical breakthrough was that some unnamed genius
discovered that 'wet' alcohol can be used for this.
Alcohol is easily distilled up to 96%, (giving 'wet' alcohol)
but the last 4% cannot be removed by destillation,
by a peculiarity of the water/ethanol phase diagram.
Removing it by other means is expensive.
(with metallic sodium for example)
Someone discovered that the remaining 4% of water
will remain in solution in the E95 mixture.
So petrol will absorb some more condensate without it sinking out,
Jan
(and lawn mowers and the like should be drained in winter)
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
[...]
BTW, petrol is a mixture. If left alone for a long time
the lighter components will have evaporated,
making the first cold start in spring difficult,
It is even more interesting with 2-stroke mixture. The petrol
evaporates leaving the oil at a much higher concentration than usual.
This is a good thing for an engine that is starting for the first time
in ages and benefits from a bit of extra lubrication - however it will often attract unwelcome attention from passers-by and from any of your neighbours who live downwind.
My Allen Scythe uses an unusually strong mix of 16:1 petrol/oil, so it[1]
is smoky at the best of times. The recommended oil is 'straight' SAE30, which is a lot more pungent than the modern refined 2-stroke oils. I remember that smell from worn-out car engines in the 1950s.
I know. You may need to drip some fresh fuel into the air intake
to get it going, first time in spring,
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:[1]
[...]
BTW, petrol is a mixture. If left alone for a long time
the lighter components will have evaporated,
making the first cold start in spring difficult,
It is even more interesting with 2-stroke mixture. The petrol
evaporates leaving the oil at a much higher concentration than usual.
This is a good thing for an engine that is starting for the first time
in ages and benefits from a bit of extra lubrication - however it will
often attract unwelcome attention from passers-by and from any of your
neighbours who live downwind.
My Allen Scythe uses an unusually strong mix of 16:1 petrol/oil, so it
is smoky at the best of times. The recommended oil is 'straight' SAE30, >> > which is a lot more pungent than the modern refined 2-stroke oils. I
remember that smell from worn-out car engines in the 1950s.
I know. You may need to drip some fresh fuel into the air intake
to get it going, first time in spring,
The engine on this one is old enough to have a 'tickler'. You press it
down and it holds the float valve open so the carburettor floods onto
the floor. That washes out the old petrol after a few seconds. The
ignition system looks like a piece of Edwardian laboratory equipment and >gives a blast of a spark that can penetrate any oil deposits on the
plug, so you don't have to worry about flooding the engine.
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 10:22:26 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:[1]
[...]
BTW, petrol is a mixture. If left alone for a long time
the lighter components will have evaporated,
making the first cold start in spring difficult,
It is even more interesting with 2-stroke mixture. The petrol
evaporates leaving the oil at a much higher concentration than usual.
This is a good thing for an engine that is starting for the first time >> > in ages and benefits from a bit of extra lubrication - however it will >> > often attract unwelcome attention from passers-by and from any of your >> > neighbours who live downwind.
My Allen Scythe uses an unusually strong mix of 16:1 petrol/oil, so it >> > is smoky at the best of times. The recommended oil is 'straight' SAE30, >> > which is a lot more pungent than the modern refined 2-stroke oils. I
remember that smell from worn-out car engines in the 1950s.
I know. You may need to drip some fresh fuel into the air intake
to get it going, first time in spring,
The engine on this one is old enough to have a 'tickler'. You press it >down and it holds the float valve open so the carburettor floods onto
the floor. That washes out the old petrol after a few seconds. The >ignition system looks like a piece of Edwardian laboratory equipment and >gives a blast of a spark that can penetrate any oil deposits on the
plug, so you don't have to worry about flooding the engine.
Ahh, brute-force, overly-complex, "Victorian" over-engineering at its
best. Many of their engines and tons of their other constructs sit,
quietly working away, after a century and more while fragile "modern" technologies fail at a stern look and wear out after the ten-day
warranty expires.
Liz suggested Isopropanol.-a Is there a chemist here who can explain why that would work, please?
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 10:22:26 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:[1]
[...]
BTW, petrol is a mixture. If left alone for a long time
the lighter components will have evaporated,
making the first cold start in spring difficult,
It is even more interesting with 2-stroke mixture. The petrol
evaporates leaving the oil at a much higher concentration than usual.
This is a good thing for an engine that is starting for the first time >> > in ages and benefits from a bit of extra lubrication - however it will >> > often attract unwelcome attention from passers-by and from any of your >> > neighbours who live downwind.
My Allen Scythe uses an unusually strong mix of 16:1 petrol/oil, so it >> > is smoky at the best of times. The recommended oil is 'straight' SAE30, >> > which is a lot more pungent than the modern refined 2-stroke oils. I
remember that smell from worn-out car engines in the 1950s.
I know. You may need to drip some fresh fuel into the air intake
to get it going, first time in spring,
The engine on this one is old enough to have a 'tickler'. You press it >down and it holds the float valve open so the carburettor floods onto
the floor. That washes out the old petrol after a few seconds. The >ignition system looks like a piece of Edwardian laboratory equipment and >gives a blast of a spark that can penetrate any oil deposits on the
plug, so you don't have to worry about flooding the engine.
Ahh, brute-force, overly-complex, "Victorian" over-engineering at its
best. Many of their engines and tons of their other constructs sit,
quietly working away, after a century and more while fragile "modern" technologies fail at a stern look and wear out after the ten-day
warranty expires.
And Europe has Roman roads that barely need maintaining after two
millennia while the super-teched up recent ones are so full of
potholes that spelunkers use them as training grounds.
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
[...]
BTW, petrol is a mixture. If left alone for a long time
the lighter components will have evaporated,
making the first cold start in spring difficult,
It is even more interesting with 2-stroke mixture. The petrol
evaporates leaving the oil at a much higher concentration than usual. This is a good thing for an engine that is starting for the first time
in ages and benefits from a bit of extra lubrication - however it will often attract unwelcome attention from passers-by and from any of your neighbours who live downwind.
My Allen Scythe uses an unusually strong mix of 16:1 petrol/oil, so it[1]
is smoky at the best of times. The recommended oil is 'straight' SAE30, which is a lot more pungent than the modern refined 2-stroke oils. I remember that smell from worn-out car engines in the 1950s.
I know. You may need to drip some fresh fuel into the air intake
to get it going, first time in spring,
The engine on this one is old enough to have a 'tickler'. You press it
down and it holds the float valve open so the carburettor floods onto
the floor. That washes out the old petrol after a few seconds. The
ignition system looks like a piece of Edwardian laboratory equipment and gives a blast of a spark that can penetrate any oil deposits on the
plug, so you don't have to worry about flooding the engine.
Graham J wrote:
[snip]
My guess is that this fluid would work in the mower. About 30% would be water, and 70% the petrol & isopropanol, so it would probably burn OK, particularly if the engine were already hot.
Somebody here can no doubt explain relative the solubility between the
three components.
So the correct action will be to add sufficient isopropanol to at least match the volume of water which condenses in the tank - possibly 10ml or 20ml per tank-full of petrol.
John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:[-]
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 10:22:26 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
The engine on this one is old enough to have a 'tickler'. You press it >down and it holds the float valve open so the carburettor floods onto
the floor. That washes out the old petrol after a few seconds. The >ignition system looks like a piece of Edwardian laboratory equipment and >gives a blast of a spark that can penetrate any oil deposits on the
plug, so you don't have to worry about flooding the engine.
Ahh, brute-force, overly-complex, "Victorian" over-engineering at its best. Many of their engines and tons of their other constructs sit,
quietly working away, after a century and more while fragile "modern" technologies fail at a stern look and wear out after the ten-day
warranty expires.
I appreciate the sentiment but an Allen Scythe isn't exactly "overly
complex" - in fact it has been described as primitive and crude. It
doesn't even have such refinements as brakes and steering - they would
only add unnecessarily to the cost.
Your comment about "quietly working away" is also well wide of the mark, ear-defenders are mandatory. (Imagine the sound of a poorly-silenced
motor bike combined with a tumble dryer full of empty tin cans and some cutlery.)
Graham J wrote:
[snip]
Liz suggested Isopropanol. Is there a chemist here who can explain why that would work, please?
OP here ...
I put some of the contaminated fuel in a small glass jar. I estimate
about 10ml water and 10ml petrol.
I added a couple of drops of blue food colouring. This dissolved in the water layer making it clearly identifiable at the bottom of the jar.
I added a small amount of isopropanol - maybe 2 ml. This dissolved in
the water making a larger blue layer at the bottom of the jar. The
petrol remained separate floating on the water/isopropanol solution.
I added a lot more isopropanol - about another 10ml. The two layers
then merged into one, and the food colouring appeared as a slightly
darker blue wisp in the overall blue liquid.
I let it stand for several hours. The fluid remained homogenous, it did
not separate into distinct layers.
My guess is that this fluid would work in the mower. About 30% would be water, and 70% the petrol & isopropanol, so it would probably burn OK, particularly if the engine were already hot.
Somebody here can no doubt explain relative the solubility between the
three components.
So the correct action will be to add sufficient isopropanol to at least
match the volume of water which condenses in the tank - possibly 10ml or
20ml per tank-full of petrol.
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
Graham J wrote:
[snip]
My guess is that this fluid would work in the mower. About 30% would be water, and 70% the petrol & isopropanol, so it would probably burn OK, particularly if the engine were already hot.
That may be too much, you can cause 'hydraulicing' which can blow the thing to bits. It was quite a common practice, many years ago, to gain
performance with a small water spray into the inlet, but you really have to get it right.
I have seen a few con-rods and pistons laying outside an engine because of this.
John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 10:22:26 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:[1]
[...]
BTW, petrol is a mixture. If left alone for a long time
the lighter components will have evaporated,
making the first cold start in spring difficult,
It is even more interesting with 2-stroke mixture. The petrol
evaporates leaving the oil at a much higher concentration than usual. >> >> > This is a good thing for an engine that is starting for the first time >> >> > in ages and benefits from a bit of extra lubrication - however it will >> >> > often attract unwelcome attention from passers-by and from any of your >> >> > neighbours who live downwind.
My Allen Scythe uses an unusually strong mix of 16:1 petrol/oil, so it >> >> > is smoky at the best of times. The recommended oil is 'straight' SAE30,
which is a lot more pungent than the modern refined 2-stroke oils. I >> >> > remember that smell from worn-out car engines in the 1950s.
I know. You may need to drip some fresh fuel into the air intake
to get it going, first time in spring,
The engine on this one is old enough to have a 'tickler'. You press it
down and it holds the float valve open so the carburettor floods onto
the floor. That washes out the old petrol after a few seconds. The
ignition system looks like a piece of Edwardian laboratory equipment and
gives a blast of a spark that can penetrate any oil deposits on the
plug, so you don't have to worry about flooding the engine.
Ahh, brute-force, overly-complex, "Victorian" over-engineering at its
best. Many of their engines and tons of their other constructs sit,
quietly working away, after a century and more while fragile "modern"
technologies fail at a stern look and wear out after the ten-day
warranty expires.
I appreciate the sentiment but an Allen Scythe isn't exactly "overly
complex" - in fact it has been described as primitive and crude. It
doesn't even have such refinements as brakes and steering - they would
only add unnecessarily to the cost.
Your comment about "quietly working away" is also well wide of the mark, >ear-defenders are mandatory. (Imagine the sound of a poorly-silenced
motor bike combined with a tumble dryer full of empty tin cans and some >cutlery.)
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 15:13:50 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 10:22:26 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:so it > is smoky at the best of times. The recommended oil is
[...]
BTW, petrol is a mixture. If left alone for a long time
the lighter components will have evaporated,
making the first cold start in spring difficult,
It is even more interesting with 2-stroke mixture. The petrol
evaporates leaving the oil at a much higher concentration than usual. >> >> > This is a good thing for an engine that is starting for the first time
in ages and benefits from a bit of extra lubrication - however it will
often attract unwelcome attention from passers-by and from any of your
neighbours who live downwind.
My Allen Scythe uses an unusually strong mix of 16:1 petrol/oil,
'straight' SAE30, > which is a lot more pungent than the modern
refined 2-stroke oils. I > remember that smell from worn-out car
engines in the 1950s. [1]
I know. You may need to drip some fresh fuel into the air intake
to get it going, first time in spring,
The engine on this one is old enough to have a 'tickler'. You press it >> >down and it holds the float valve open so the carburettor floods onto
the floor. That washes out the old petrol after a few seconds. The
ignition system looks like a piece of Edwardian laboratory equipment and >> >gives a blast of a spark that can penetrate any oil deposits on the
plug, so you don't have to worry about flooding the engine.
Ahh, brute-force, overly-complex, "Victorian" over-engineering at its
best. Many of their engines and tons of their other constructs sit,
quietly working away, after a century and more while fragile "modern"
technologies fail at a stern look and wear out after the ten-day
warranty expires.
I appreciate the sentiment but an Allen Scythe isn't exactly "overly >complex" - in fact it has been described as primitive and crude. It >doesn't even have such refinements as brakes and steering - they would
only add unnecessarily to the cost.
Okay, sorry.
I shouldn't have jumped in. :)
Your comment about "quietly working away" is also well wide of the mark, >ear-defenders are mandatory. (Imagine the sound of a poorly-silenced
motor bike combined with a tumble dryer full of empty tin cans and some >cutlery.)
Yes, it may make some noises but it doesn't complain, doesn't whinge
at you, doesn't tell you that it needs to be updated every ten
minutes. It just "quietly" works. :)
Anyway, sorry to have intruded. Bye.
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
[...]
BTW, petrol is a mixture. If left alone for a long time
the lighter components will have evaporated,
making the first cold start in spring difficult,
It is even more interesting with 2-stroke mixture. The petrol evaporates leaving the oil at a much higher concentration than usual. This is a good thing for an engine that is starting for the first time in ages and benefits from a bit of extra lubrication - however it will often attract unwelcome attention from passers-by and from any of your neighbours who live downwind.
My Allen Scythe uses an unusually strong mix of 16:1 petrol/oil, so it is smoky at the best of times. The recommended oil is 'straight' SAE30,[1]
which is a lot more pungent than the modern refined 2-stroke oils. I remember that smell from worn-out car engines in the 1950s.
I know. You may need to drip some fresh fuel into the air intake
to get it going, first time in spring,
The engine on this one is old enough to have a 'tickler'. You press it down and it holds the float valve open so the carburettor floods onto
the floor. That washes out the old petrol after a few seconds. The ignition system looks like a piece of Edwardian laboratory equipment and gives a blast of a spark that can penetrate any oil deposits on the
plug, so you don't have to worry about flooding the engine.
I can well magine. Not exactly Edwardian technology,
but well before WWII.
A museum piece, by now,
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
[-]On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 10:22:26 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
The engine on this one is old enough to have a 'tickler'. You press it >down and it holds the float valve open so the carburettor floods onto >the floor. That washes out the old petrol after a few seconds. The >ignition system looks like a piece of Edwardian laboratory equipment and >gives a blast of a spark that can penetrate any oil deposits on the >plug, so you don't have to worry about flooding the engine.
Ahh, brute-force, overly-complex, "Victorian" over-engineering at its best. Many of their engines and tons of their other constructs sit, quietly working away, after a century and more while fragile "modern" technologies fail at a stern look and wear out after the ten-day
warranty expires.
I appreciate the sentiment but an Allen Scythe isn't exactly "overly complex" - in fact it has been described as primitive and crude. It doesn't even have such refinements as brakes and steering - they would
only add unnecessarily to the cost.
It is a two-wheel tractor with handle bars.
What would it need brakes and steering for?
Modern ones don't have them either.
Your comment about "quietly working away" is also well wide of the mark, ear-defenders are mandatory. (Imagine the sound of a poorly-silenced
motor bike combined with a tumble dryer full of empty tin cans and some cutlery.)
It may have been somewhat more quiet when new, I guess,
when everything had less play,
Graham J wrote:
[snip]
Liz suggested Isopropanol.-a Is there a chemist here who can explain why
that would work, please?
OP here ...
I put some of the contaminated fuel in a small glass jar. I estimate
about 10ml water and 10ml petrol.
I added a couple of drops of blue food colouring. This dissolved in the water layer making it clearly identifiable at the bottom of the jar.
I added a small amount of isopropanol - maybe 2 ml. This dissolved in
the water making a larger blue layer at the bottom of the jar. The
petrol remained separate floating on the water/isopropanol solution.
I added a lot more isopropanol - about another 10ml. The two layers
then merged into one, and the food colouring appeared as a slightly
darker blue wisp in the overall blue liquid.
I let it stand for several hours. The fluid remained homogenous, it did
not separate into distinct layers.
My guess is that this fluid would work in the mower. About 30% would be water, and 70% the petrol & isopropanol, so it would probably burn OK, particularly if the engine were already hot.
Somebody here can no doubt explain relative the solubility between the
three components.
So the correct action will be to add sufficient isopropanol to at least match the volume of water which condenses in the tank - possibly 10ml or 20ml per tank-full of petrol.
Graham J wrote:
[snip]
Liz suggested Isopropanol.-a Is there a chemist here who can explain why that would work, please?
OP here ...
I put some of the contaminated fuel in a small glass jar. I estimate
about 10ml water and 10ml petrol.
I added a couple of drops of blue food colouring. This dissolved in the water layer making it clearly identifiable at the bottom of the jar.
I added a small amount of isopropanol - maybe 2 ml. This dissolved in
the water making a larger blue layer at the bottom of the jar. The
petrol remained separate floating on the water/isopropanol solution.
I added a lot more isopropanol - about another 10ml. The two layers
then merged into one, and the food colouring appeared as a slightly
darker blue wisp in the overall blue liquid.
I let it stand for several hours. The fluid remained homogenous, it did
not separate into distinct layers.
My guess is that this fluid would work in the mower. About 30% would be water, and 70% the petrol & isopropanol, so it would probably burn OK, particularly if the engine were already hot.
Somebody here can no doubt explain relative the solubility between the
three components.
So the correct action will be to add sufficient isopropanol to at least
match the volume of water which condenses in the tank - possibly 10ml or
20ml per tank-full of petrol.
I added a lot more isopropanol - about another 10ml.-a The two layers
then merged into one, and the food colouring appeared as a slightly
darker blue wisp in the overall blue liquid.
I let it stand for several hours.-a The fluid remained homogenous, it did not separate into distinct layers.
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
[...]
BTW, petrol is a mixture. If left alone for a long time
the lighter components will have evaporated,
making the first cold start in spring difficult,
It is even more interesting with 2-stroke mixture. The petrol evaporates leaving the oil at a much higher concentration than usual. This is a good thing for an engine that is starting for the first time
in ages and benefits from a bit of extra lubrication - however it will
often attract unwelcome attention from passers-by and from any of your
neighbours who live downwind.
My Allen Scythe uses an unusually strong mix of 16:1 petrol/oil,[1]
so it is smoky at the best of times. The recommended oil is 'straight' SAE30, which is a lot more pungent than the modern
refined 2-stroke oils. I remember that smell from worn-out car engines in the 1950s.
I know. You may need to drip some fresh fuel into the air intake
to get it going, first time in spring,
The engine on this one is old enough to have a 'tickler'. You press it down and it holds the float valve open so the carburettor floods onto
the floor. That washes out the old petrol after a few seconds. The ignition system looks like a piece of Edwardian laboratory equipment and gives a blast of a spark that can penetrate any oil deposits on the
plug, so you don't have to worry about flooding the engine.
I can well magine. Not exactly Edwardian technology,
but well before WWII.
Surprisingly it was a German design from before WW1. Villiers were
given the plans as part of post-WW1 reparations and began making them
with imperial threads but metric spacing between the holes.
A museum piece, by now,
They do turn up in agricultural museums but this one is still working
and in regular use. The great thing about it is that all the parts are either still obtainable or can be made with ordinary machine tools.
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
[-]On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 10:22:26 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
The engine on this one is old enough to have a 'tickler'. You press it
down and it holds the float valve open so the carburettor floods onto >the floor. That washes out the old petrol after a few seconds. The >ignition system looks like a piece of Edwardian laboratory
equipment and gives a blast of a spark that can penetrate any oil >deposits on the plug, so you don't have to worry about flooding the >engine.
Ahh, brute-force, overly-complex, "Victorian" over-engineering at
its best. Many of their engines and tons of their other constructs
sit, quietly working away, after a century and more while fragile "modern" technologies fail at a stern look and wear out after the ten-day warranty expires.
I appreciate the sentiment but an Allen Scythe isn't exactly "overly complex" - in fact it has been described as primitive and crude. It doesn't even have such refinements as brakes and steering - they would only add unnecessarily to the cost.
It is a two-wheel tractor with handle bars.
What would it need brakes and steering for?
Modern ones don't have them either.
Steering by handles is awkward because you need space to swing them
round; in thick vegetation there isn't room to turn the machine until
you have carved out a space. In the corners of a field you have to cut
up to the boundary, then haul the machine diagonally backwards by hand
far enough to turn it; that's hard work.
The brakes would help if you were cutting a field on a slope. To avoid
the expense of a differential they drove the wheels with rachets (like a bicycle) that allow the outer wheel to freewheel when turning a corner.
That allows both wheels to freewheel when going downhill and the machine
is too heavy for one person to stop it when it begins to run away.
The
driver has to stop at the brow of a hill and engage rachet locks on the wheels, then the engine will act as a brake but the machine becomes
virtually unsteerable. You can have either braking or steering - but
not both at the same time.
Your comment about "quietly working away" is also well wide of the mark, ear-defenders are mandatory. (Imagine the sound of a poorly-silenced motor bike combined with a tumble dryer full of empty tin cans and some cutlery.)
It may have been somewhat more quiet when new, I guess,
when everything had less play,
There would be a bit less rattle but is is still very noisy.
So I'm really keen to PREVENT the problem rather than dismantle
everything to remove the water.
Graham J wrote:
[snip]
I added a lot more isopropanol - about another 10ml.-a The two layers
then merged into one, and the food colouring appeared as a slightly
darker blue wisp in the overall blue liquid.
I let it stand for several hours.-a The fluid remained homogenous, it did >> not separate into distinct layers.
OP here ...
Remember the jar with 10ml petrol, 10ml water and about 12ml isopropanol which remained completely homogenous?
I added about 50ml clean petrol. A small amount, less than 5ml water separated out at the bottom. From which I conclude that petrol is disproportionately more soluble than water in isopropanol, so some water
is forced out of solution - it precipitates.
Other points: the mower is kept in a dry shed; there are no children who might have added water to the fuel, and the can which I use to bring
petrol is clean - no water in it. So I'm satisfied that the water
arises from condensation.
When the mower fails, it is not when starting from cold, rather it is
after several tens of minutes of use. Mostly this happens in springtime probably because there has been more condensation of water over the
winter, but it has happened in summer also.
It's a real pain to drain the tank - I have to siphon out the fuel, and there is always water in it. The lowest part if the tank is crudely
conical and the exit pipe is not at the bottom, so it behaves exactly as
one would expect for a water trap but there is no drain cock to release
the water. It's all plastic.
Then to drain the float chamber I have to remove the air filter and
unscrew the nut under the bowl - awkward, and there's no easy way to
collect the fuel that spills. The float chamber also has water in it.
So I'm really keen to PREVENT the problem rather than dismantle
everything to remove the water.
It seems that I should add quite a large amount of isopropanol when the
tank is almost empty.
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
Other points: the mower is kept in a dry shed; there are no children who
might have added water to the fuel, and the can which I use to bring
petrol is clean - no water in it. So I'm satisfied that the water
arises from condensation.
But where is the condensation coming from? Within the tank? Or somewhere
else in the mower?
Then to drain the float chamber I have to remove the air filter and
unscrew the nut under the bowl - awkward, and there's no easy way to
collect the fuel that spills. The float chamber also has water in it.
So I'm really keen to PREVENT the problem rather than dismantle
everything to remove the water.
Keep the mower in the house? ;)
Condensation is simply moisture in the air so you either remove the air or stop it from condensing. I presume this only happens over wintering and at other times of the year you're fine.
You can remove the air by brimming the tank or fill the void with an inert, yet dry, gas. Nitrogen or argon maybe?
Or find a way to add desiccant without affecting the running of the mower.
It seems that I should add quite a large amount of isopropanol when the
tank is almost empty.
On 07/04/2026 19:38, Chris wrote:
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
[..]
Other points: the mower is kept in a dry shed; there are no children who >>> might have added water to the fuel, and the can which I use to bring
petrol is clean - no water in it. So I'm satisfied that the water
arises from condensation.
But where is the condensation coming from? Within the tank? Or somewhere
else in the mower?
Probably just from the air, natural humidy in this country is around 50%
I believe. We can fill a dehumidifier with a couple litres of water in
our house in a few days. It is really hard to get it beloe 55%.
The carb and the tank will be vented somewhere.
Then to drain the float chamber I have to remove the air filter and
unscrew the nut under the bowl - awkward, and there's no easy way to
collect the fuel that spills. The float chamber also has water in it.
So I'm really keen to PREVENT the problem rather than dismantle
everything to remove the water.
Keep the mower in the house? ;)
Condensation is simply moisture in the air so you either remove the air or >> stop it from condensing. I presume this only happens over wintering and at >> other times of the year you're fine.
You can remove the air by brimming the tank or fill the void with an inert, >> yet dry, gas. Nitrogen or argon maybe?
Porbably won't work, as most basic systems like that will be vented (a carburetter has to be to work.
Or find a way to add desiccant without affecting the running of the mower. >>
It seems that I should add quite a large amount of isopropanol when the
tank is almost empty.
Might be easier to let it run out until the engine stops on the last run
of the season, it might just empty the float chamber. Then just syphon
out the last bit from the tank. Hopefully a fresh refill in the spring
will be enough to dilute anythign left in there.
Just a suggestion of course. It's a shame that it's tricky to get apart
to drain. I used to do this on an old Briggs and Stratton I had, but
that usually needed stripping down in spring to put a new priming
diaphragm in it anyway, which on that was a ten minute job.
On 07/04/2026 19:38, Chris wrote:
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
[..]
Other points: the mower is kept in a dry shed; there are no children who >> might have added water to the fuel, and the can which I use to bring
petrol is clean - no water in it. So I'm satisfied that the water
arises from condensation.
But where is the condensation coming from? Within the tank? Or somewhere else in the mower?
Probably just from the air, natural humidy in this country is around 50%
I believe. We can fill a dehumidifier with a couple litres of water in
our house in a few days. It is really hard to get it beloe 55%.
The carb and the tank will be vented somewhere.
On 07/04/2026 19:38, Chris wrote:
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
[..]
Other points: the mower is kept in a dry shed; there are no children who >>> might have added water to the fuel, and the can which I use to bring
petrol is clean - no water in it. So I'm satisfied that the water
arises from condensation.
But where is the condensation coming from? Within the tank? Or somewhere
else in the mower?
Probably just from the air, natural humidy in this country is around 50%
I believe. We can fill a dehumidifier with a couple litres of water in
our house in a few days. It is really hard to get it beloe 55%.
The carb and the tank will be vented somewhere.
Then to drain the float chamber I have to remove the air filter and
unscrew the nut under the bowl - awkward, and there's no easy way to
collect the fuel that spills. The float chamber also has water in it.
So I'm really keen to PREVENT the problem rather than dismantle
everything to remove the water.
Keep the mower in the house? ;)
Condensation is simply moisture in the air so you either remove the air or >> stop it from condensing. I presume this only happens over wintering and at >> other times of the year you're fine.
You can remove the air by brimming the tank or fill the void with an inert, >> yet dry, gas. Nitrogen or argon maybe?
Porbably won't work, as most basic systems like that will be vented (a carburetter has to be to work.
Or find a way to add desiccant without affecting the running of the mower. >>
It seems that I should add quite a large amount of isopropanol when the
tank is almost empty.
Might be easier to let it run out until the engine stops on the last run
of the season, it might just empty the float chamber. Then just syphon
out the last bit from the tank. Hopefully a fresh refill in the spring
will be enough to dilute anythign left in there.
Just a suggestion of course. It's a shame that it's tricky to get apart
to drain. I used to do this on an old Briggs and Stratton I had, but
that usually needed stripping down in spring to put a new priming
diaphragm in it anyway, which on that was a ten minute job.
Andrew Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> wrote:
On 07/04/2026 19:38, Chris wrote:
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
[..]
Other points: the mower is kept in a dry shed; there are no children who >>> might have added water to the fuel, and the can which I use to bring
petrol is clean - no water in it. So I'm satisfied that the water
arises from condensation.
But where is the condensation coming from? Within the tank? Or somewhere >> else in the mower?
Probably just from the air, natural humidy in this country is around 50%
I believe. We can fill a dehumidifier with a couple litres of water in
our house in a few days. It is really hard to get it beloe 55%.
The carb and the tank will be vented somewhere.
Then to drain the float chamber I have to remove the air filter and
unscrew the nut under the bowl - awkward, and there's no easy way to
collect the fuel that spills. The float chamber also has water in it. >>>
So I'm really keen to PREVENT the problem rather than dismantle
everything to remove the water.
Keep the mower in the house? ;)
Condensation is simply moisture in the air so you either remove the air or >> stop it from condensing. I presume this only happens over wintering and at >> other times of the year you're fine.
You can remove the air by brimming the tank or fill the void with an inert,
yet dry, gas. Nitrogen or argon maybe?
Porbably won't work, as most basic systems like that will be vented (a carburetter has to be to work.
I mean 50ml of water condensate coming through vent holes is a stretch.
Maybe wrap the whole thing in a plastic bin bag, otherwise.
The brakes would help if you were cutting a field on a slope. To avoid
the expense of a differential they drove the wheels with rachets (like a bicycle) that allow the outer wheel to freewheel when turning a corner. That allows both wheels to freewheel when going downhill and the machine
is too heavy for one person to stop it when it begins to run away.
Yes, but only for one revolution of the wheels.
The
driver has to stop at the brow of a hill and engage rachet locks on the wheels, then the engine will act as a brake but the machine becomes virtually unsteerable. You can have either braking or steering - but
not both at the same time.
In practice there is not enough grip to make those theoretical
objections practical problems.
(unless you mount double snow plow tyres)
And whatever kind of machine you have got,
trying to mow straight down a steep slope is almost always a mistake.
Modern ones have nylon bushings. Originally this thing
may have had hard rubber ones,
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
[...]
The brakes would help if you were cutting a field on a slope. To avoid the expense of a differential they drove the wheels with rachets (like a bicycle) that allow the outer wheel to freewheel when turning a corner. That allows both wheels to freewheel when going downhill and the machine is too heavy for one person to stop it when it begins to run away.
Yes, but only for one revolution of the wheels.
No, they are just ratchets that allow complete freewheeling. The rule is
that if an Allen Scythe starts to run away, stand well clear and watch
the crash from a distance.
The
driver has to stop at the brow of a hill and engage rachet locks on the wheels, then the engine will act as a brake but the machine becomes virtually unsteerable. You can have either braking or steering - but
not both at the same time.
In practice there is not enough grip to make those theoretical
objections practical problems.
(unless you mount double snow plow tyres)
They are very knobbly scrambles-bike tyres; the machine is made of cast
iron and weighs around 200 Kg. The original tyres were even more
knobbly because they had solid projections that were designed to catch brambles and pull them down into the cutters.
You have my assurance that the problem is far from a theoretical one -
20 minutes of driving one of these in anything but an open meadow, is an exhausting experience.
And whatever kind of machine you have got,
trying to mow straight down a steep slope is almost always a mistake.
Yes.
[...]
Modern ones have nylon bushings. Originally this thing
may have had hard rubber ones,
This thing was designed in 1935, (the year nylon was invented: nylon
wasn't generally available as an engineering material until years
later). Resilience was an expensive and unnecessary luxury which was unheard-of in agricultural implements. The Allen Scythe has entirely
steel, solid bronze and cast iron parts, the only resilient material in
the whole machine is the rubber in the tyres.
When the crosshead begins to wear, you have a bronze block banging on a forged steel lever about 20 times per second. At the other end of the oscillating assembly, the hardened steel end of the arm is clattering
around slackly in a forged lug on the knife bar.
It is noisy!
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
[...]
The brakes would help if you were cutting a field on a slope. To avoid the expense of a differential they drove the wheels with rachets (like a
bicycle) that allow the outer wheel to freewheel when turning a corner. That allows both wheels to freewheel when going downhill and the machine
is too heavy for one person to stop it when it begins to run away.
Yes, but only for one revolution of the wheels.
No, they are just ratchets that allow complete freewheeling. The rule is that if an Allen Scythe starts to run away, stand well clear and watch
the crash from a distance.
That is bad design indeed.
Modern ones have a 'take along' pin.
So the wheel is free to rotate on the axle,
but only for less than one turn.
(or the wheel can be fixed)
When the drive is engaged nothing may happen for a short while,
until the pin on the axle catches the one on the wheel.
You have my assurance that the problem is far from a theoretical one -
20 minutes of driving one of these in anything but an open meadow, is an exhausting experience.
Certainly. And even with heavy padded gloves,
your hands will be numb or at least tingling from the vibrations.
It is not just ears that need to be defended.
The Allen Scythe has entirely
steel, solid bronze and cast iron parts, the only resilient material in
the whole machine is the rubber in the tyres.
Then there must be a lot of play in those bearings by now.
When the crosshead begins to wear, you have a bronze block banging on a forged steel lever about 20 times per second. At the other end of the oscillating assembly, the hardened steel end of the arm is clattering around slackly in a forged lug on the knife bar.
It is noisy!
Yes, of course, and worse, inside the already high mean noise level
there are no doubt periodic spikes of much higher intensity,
PS, and now completely off-topic, on your units:
Continental Meccano imitations had the same mixed units problems.
They kept the Meccano hole spacings for compatibility,
but made the holes 3mm instead of 1/8", using M3 bolts.
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
[...]
The brakes would help if you were cutting a field on a slope. To avoid the expense of a differential they drove the wheels with rachets (like a bicycle) that allow the outer wheel to freewheel
when turning a corner. That allows both wheels to freewheel when going downhill and the machine is too heavy for one person to stop
it when it begins to run away.
Yes, but only for one revolution of the wheels.
No, they are just ratchets that allow complete freewheeling. The rule is that if an Allen Scythe starts to run away, stand well clear and watch the crash from a distance.
That is bad design indeed.
Modern ones have a 'take along' pin.
So the wheel is free to rotate on the axle,
but only for less than one turn.
(or the wheel can be fixed)
When the drive is engaged nothing may happen for a short while,
until the pin on the axle catches the one on the wheel.
The problem with that is when one wheel 'catches' before the other, the machine will unpredictably lurch sideways. It already does that a bit
if one of the ratchets isn't fully engaged - but not very far.
You have my assurance that the problem is far from a theoretical one -
20 minutes of driving one of these in anything but an open meadow, is an exhausting experience.
Certainly. And even with heavy padded gloves,
your hands will be numb or at least tingling from the vibrations.
It is not just ears that need to be defended.
The handles have a range of resonances, so the whole of the operator's
arm is shaken to a blur at certain engine speeds.
[...]
The Allen Scythe has entirely
steel, solid bronze and cast iron parts, the only resilient material in the whole machine is the rubber in the tyres.
Then there must be a lot of play in those bearings by now.
Yes, but the accuracy has been designed out, so it rattles about a bit
but still works.
When the crosshead begins to wear, you have a bronze block banging on a forged steel lever about 20 times per second. At the other end of the oscillating assembly, the hardened steel end of the arm is clattering around slackly in a forged lug on the knife bar.
It is noisy!
Yes, of course, and worse, inside the already high mean noise level
there are no doubt periodic spikes of much higher intensity,
You haven't spotted the additional danger: The operator has to wear ear defenders, which means nobody can communicate with them by voice.
In order to attract their attention someone either has to put themselves
in the operator's field of vision, where they are liable to be run over,
or they have to hit them with something from behind. A small log thrown overarm is usually effective.
I used to be an Allen Scythe instructor for an organisation and we
absolutely would not allow anyone in front of the machine, so the thrown-object method was the one we taught.
[..]
PS, and now completely off-topic, on your units:
Continental Meccano imitations had the same mixed units problems.
They kept the Meccano hole spacings for compatibility,
but made the holes 3mm instead of 1/8", using M3 bolts.
Interesting, I never knew that.
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:[...]
The handles have a range of resonances, so the whole of the operator's
arm is shaken to a blur at certain engine speeds.
That is bad indeed.
Aren't your joints and muscles too old for this kind of fun?
You haven't spotted the additional danger: The operator has to wear ear defenders, which means nobody can communicate with them by voice.
That must be true with or without the ear defenders.
I used to be an Allen Scythe instructor for an organisation and we absolutely would not allow anyone in front of the machine, so the thrown-object method was the one we taught.
To a museum or scrapyard would be a better idea, I think.
Haven't the things been outlawed for all professional uses?
(they certainly would be in the EU)
...today's kiddies want Lego,
to be assemmbled once, and put on a shelf to look at,
J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:[...]
The handles have a range of resonances, so the whole of the operator's arm is shaken to a blur at certain engine speeds.
That is bad indeed.
It is fairly unpleasant but the resonance speeds can be avoided most of
the time.
Aren't your joints and muscles too old for this kind of fun?
I like to think it keeps me supple :-) Folk dancing is another activity
like that.
You haven't spotted the additional danger: The operator has to wear ear defenders, which means nobody can communicate with them by voice.
That must be true with or without the ear defenders.
Yes, the work plan has to be agreed in advance so as to avoid any misunderstandings.
I used to be an Allen Scythe instructor for an organisation and we absolutely would not allow anyone in front of the machine, so the thrown-object method was the one we taught.
To a museum or scrapyard would be a better idea, I think.
Haven't the things been outlawed for all professional uses?
(they certainly would be in the EU)
They were banned for a while, then it was discovered that none of hte
'safer' machines could do the job without having the safety features
removed or disabled, so Allen Scythes were allowed again as long as the operator was deemed 'competent'.
I have managed to get public liability insurance to exhibit mine, with
the engine running, at vintage rallies and fairs, as long as it doesn't
move under its own power and the public are kept 6ft away by a barrier.
To prevent it moving I have to disconnect the ratchet drives, as the
clutch cannot be relied on to stay disengaged (it 'fails dangerous').
...today's kiddies want Lego,
to be assemmbled once, and put on a shelf to look at,
Everything these days is about appearance rather than function.
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