• 2.5 Mb encoding 2,600 proteins in 200 My

    From MarkE@me22over7@gmail.com to talk-origins on Thu Aug 13 17:10:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    "How evolution proceeded from the origin of life to early communities at
    the time of LUCA remains an open question, but the inferred age of LUCA (~4.2rCeGa) compared with the origin of the Earth and Moon suggests that
    the process required A SURPRISINGLY SHORT INTERVAL OF GEOLOGIC TIME." [1]

    "...the inferred ages of LUCA and the early ATP synthase duplicates seem
    to imply a VERY HIGH RATE OF EVOLUTIONARY INNOVATION during the earliest period of evolutionary history." [2]

    These articles are recent, 2024 and 2024, and I think are part of a
    trend leading to this prediction: discoveries such as "surprisingly
    short time intervals" and "very high rates of evolutionary innovation"
    will continue and stretch naturalistic explanations to the point of
    generally accepted implausibility.

    _____

    [1] The nature of the last universal common ancestor and its impact on
    the early Earth system
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-024-02461-1

    [2] ATP synthase evolution on a cross-braced dated tree of life https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-42924-w

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  • From Kerr-Mudd, John@admin@127.0.0.1 to talk-origins on Thu Aug 13 09:58:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 17:10:40 +1000
    MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:

    "How evolution proceeded from the origin of life to early communities at
    the time of LUCA remains an open question, but the inferred age of LUCA (~4.2rCeGa) compared with the origin of the Earth and Moon suggests that
    the process required A SURPRISINGLY SHORT INTERVAL OF GEOLOGIC TIME." [1]

    "...the inferred ages of LUCA and the early ATP synthase duplicates seem
    to imply a VERY HIGH RATE OF EVOLUTIONARY INNOVATION during the earliest period of evolutionary history." [2]

    or maybe a lot of bits were pre-formed elsewhere and delivered by
    meteorites?


    These articles are recent, 2024 and 2024, and I think are part of a
    trend leading to this prediction: discoveries such as "surprisingly
    short time intervals" and "very high rates of evolutionary innovation"
    will continue and stretch naturalistic explanations to the point of generally accepted implausibility.


    Right. So Goddidit (TM), then left things to stew for a few billion years before popping back to reveal himself to one species. No, wait, he had to
    pop back to invent the flagellum. But otherwise was busy elsewhere.


    _____

    [1] The nature of the last universal common ancestor and its impact on
    the early Earth system
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-024-02461-1

    [2] ATP synthase evolution on a cross-braced dated tree of life https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-42924-w

    --
    Bah, and indeed Humbug.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From RonO@rokimoto557@gmail.com to talk-origins on Thu Aug 13 11:00:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    On 8/13/2026 3:58 AM, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 17:10:40 +1000
    MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:

    "How evolution proceeded from the origin of life to early communities at
    the time of LUCA remains an open question, but the inferred age of LUCA
    (~4.2rCeGa) compared with the origin of the Earth and Moon suggests that
    the process required A SURPRISINGLY SHORT INTERVAL OF GEOLOGIC TIME." [1]

    "...the inferred ages of LUCA and the early ATP synthase duplicates seem
    to imply a VERY HIGH RATE OF EVOLUTIONARY INNOVATION during the earliest
    period of evolutionary history." [2]

    or maybe a lot of bits were pre-formed elsewhere and delivered by
    meteorites?

    When the paper was published that estimated that LUCA could have existed
    4.2 billion years ago, I made the claim that it was evidence for Crick's notion that life could have been seeded onto the earth from elsewhere.
    The reference is below, and if you go to figure 1 you will see that
    there is evidence that life was seeded onto the earth around 3.2 billion
    years ago. It looks like only one lineage of Achaea and Bacteria
    survived past 3.3 billion years ago. All lineages except for those two suffered extinction or never existed on this planet. They could have
    come from another planet in our solar system that was amenable to the
    creation of life before the earth. Mars is thought to have had liquid
    water before our planet, and we have observed interstellar visitors that
    have higher concentrations of the elements needed to produce life and
    they came from somewhere else in our galaxy.

    Molecular estimates pretty much always seem to over estimate the time of divergence. Some claim that the estimate is always too old because of
    how we have to estimate it using surviving lineages, and this is an
    estimate based on the shared genes between Archaea and Bacteria, and
    their estimate indicates that there is a billion years where they have
    no calibration about what was happening because we do not have branching lineages during that time period. They have to assume that the rate of
    change was the same as it was after 3.2 billion years ago and that is
    not a good assumption. The rate could have been faster or slower after
    what looks like a major extinction event that nearly destroyed life on
    this planet. To imagine that so few lineages survived so that
    everything could be lost except for 2 lucky lineages is nuts. Just
    think of how many millions of clonal lineages should have existed before
    the last common ancestors of Archaea (LACA) and the last common ancestor
    of Bacteria (LBCA) existed around 3.2 billion years ago.

    It could be explained by space aliens seeding the earth with only two
    types of bacteria in order to terraform the planet. Both Archaea and
    Bacteria had chemotrophic and photosynthetic abilities (it may have been anaerobic photosynthesis). I made the claim that Nyikos would have been
    happy when the paper was first published.

    Both the LACA and LBCA lineages contain evidence that the last universal common ancestor (LUCA) existed at some time in the past. Some
    intelligent designer would have had to first design LUCA, let life
    evolve for some period of time before selecting the LACA and LBCA
    lineages to take over the earth.

    MarkE also has to deal with the data telling him that our eukaryotic
    nucleus is derived from the LACA ancestral lineage, and our
    mitochondrial genome is derived from the LBCA ancestral lineage. Plant chloroplasts are also derived from the LBCA ancestral lineage. This
    means that eukaryotes evolved from within the Archaea, and managed to
    trap Bacteria to do the heavy lifting for the cell over a billion years
    ago around 2 billion years after the LACA existed.

    This just means that his designer was very busy for billions of years.
    He can't just lie to himself about one aspect of the research and ignore everything else that the research tells him. MarkE doesn't even want
    life to have existed 4.2 billion years ago. Life arose during the 3rd
    day or period of time when plants were created on the first continents.
    He doesn't agree with the Reason to Believe exIDiots that claim that
    life arose early in the existence of our planet before the continental
    land masses that existed during the 3rd period of time. The Reason to
    Believe old earth creationists still want land plants to be created
    during the 3rd period of time, but they understand that life had been
    evolving on this planet for billions of years before the 3rd period of
    time. Land plants like moss did not exist until around 400 million
    years ago, and the ancestors of the angiosperm plants described in the
    Bible did not evolve until around 180 million years ago with the grasses (grain plants) not evolving until around 80 million years ago. Nature
    isn't Biblical. That is what this research should tell MarkE, but he
    can't deal honestly with reality.

    Ron Okimoto



    These articles are recent, 2024 and 2024, and I think are part of a
    trend leading to this prediction: discoveries such as "surprisingly
    short time intervals" and "very high rates of evolutionary innovation"
    will continue and stretch naturalistic explanations to the point of
    generally accepted implausibility.


    Right. So Goddidit (TM), then left things to stew for a few billion years before popping back to reveal himself to one species. No, wait, he had to
    pop back to invent the flagellum. But otherwise was busy elsewhere.


    _____

    [1] The nature of the last universal common ancestor and its impact on
    the early Earth system
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-024-02461-1

    [2] ATP synthase evolution on a cross-braced dated tree of life
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-42924-w




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  • From RonO@rokimoto557@gmail.com to talk-origins on Thu Aug 13 22:05:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    On 8/13/2026 11:00 AM, RonO wrote:
    On 8/13/2026 3:58 AM, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 17:10:40 +1000
    MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:

    "How evolution proceeded from the origin of life to early communities at >>> the time of LUCA remains an open question, but the inferred age of LUCA
    (~4.2rCeGa) compared with the origin of the Earth and Moon suggests that >>> the process required A SURPRISINGLY SHORT INTERVAL OF GEOLOGIC
    TIME." [1]

    "...the inferred ages of LUCA and the early ATP synthase duplicates seem >>> to imply a VERY HIGH RATE OF EVOLUTIONARY INNOVATION during the earliest >>> period of evolutionary history." [2]

    or maybe a lot of bits were pre-formed elsewhere and delivered by
    meteorites?

    When the paper was published that estimated that LUCA could have existed
    4.2 billion years ago, I made the claim that it was evidence for Crick's notion that life could have been seeded onto the earth from elsewhere.
    The reference is below, and if you go to figure 1 you will see that
    there is evidence that life was seeded onto the earth around 3.2 billion years ago.-a It looks like only one lineage of Achaea and Bacteria
    survived past 3.3 billion years ago.-a All lineages except for those two suffered extinction or never existed on this planet.-a They could have
    come from another planet in our solar system that was amenable to the creation of life before the earth.-a Mars is thought to have had liquid water before our planet, and we have observed interstellar visitors that have higher concentrations of the elements needed to produce life and
    they came from somewhere else in our galaxy.

    Molecular estimates pretty much always seem to over estimate the time of divergence.-a Some claim that the estimate is always too old because of
    how we have to estimate it using surviving lineages, and this is an
    estimate based on the shared genes between Archaea and Bacteria, and
    their estimate indicates that there is a billion years where they have
    no calibration about what was happening because we do not have branching lineages during that time period.-a They have to assume that the rate of change was the same as it was after 3.2 billion years ago and that is
    not a good assumption.-a The rate could have been faster or slower after what looks like a major extinction event that nearly destroyed life on
    this planet.-a To imagine that so few lineages survived so that
    everything could be lost except for 2 lucky lineages is nuts.-a Just
    think of how many millions of clonal lineages should have existed before
    the last common ancestors of Archaea (LACA) and the last common ancestor
    of Bacteria (LBCA) existed around 3.2 billion years ago.

    It could be explained by space aliens seeding the earth with only two
    types of bacteria in order to terraform the planet.-a Both Archaea and Bacteria had chemotrophic and photosynthetic abilities (it may have been anaerobic photosynthesis).-a I made the claim that Nyikos would have been happy when the paper was first published.

    Both the LACA and LBCA lineages contain evidence that the last universal common ancestor (LUCA) existed at some time in the past.-a Some
    intelligent designer would have had to first design LUCA, let life
    evolve for some period of time before selecting the LACA and LBCA
    lineages to take over the earth.

    MarkE also has to deal with the data telling him that our eukaryotic
    nucleus is derived from the LACA ancestral lineage, and our
    mitochondrial genome is derived from the LBCA ancestral lineage.-a Plant chloroplasts are also derived from the LBCA ancestral lineage.-a This
    means that eukaryotes evolved from within the Archaea, and managed to
    trap Bacteria to do the heavy lifting for the cell over a billion years
    ago around 2 billion years after the LACA existed.

    This just means that his designer was very busy for billions of years.
    He can't just lie to himself about one aspect of the research and ignore everything else that the research tells him.-a MarkE doesn't even want
    life to have existed 4.2 billion years ago.-a Life arose during the 3rd
    day or period of time when plants were created on the first continents.
    He doesn't agree with the Reason to Believe exIDiots that claim that
    life arose early in the existence of our planet before the continental
    land masses that existed during the 3rd period of time.-a The Reason to Believe old earth creationists still want land plants to be created
    during the 3rd period of time, but they understand that life had been evolving on this planet for billions of years before the 3rd period of time.-a Land plants like moss did not exist until around 400 million
    years ago, and the ancestors of the angiosperm plants described in the
    Bible did not evolve until around 180 million years ago with the grasses (grain plants) not evolving until around 80 million years ago.-a Nature isn't Biblical.-a That is what this research should tell MarkE, but he
    can't deal honestly with reality.

    Ron Okimoto

    https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2408721121

    The survival of only a single lineage of Archaea and Bacteria surviving
    past 3.2 billion years ago could be evidence that life came from
    somewhere else, and only two types of bacteria were seeded onto the
    planet, but the evidence exists that phototrophes and chemotrophes were already common around this time period. This PNAS paper claims that a
    large meteorite (37-58 km in diameter and could have been 200 times
    larger than the one that killed off the dinos) hit the earth 3.26
    billion years ago. The article claims that the impact would have
    destroyed shallow water phototrophic bacteria, but deep water bacteria
    would have survived. They also claim that it looks like life quickly rebounded, but the current phylogeny would indicated that life was
    teetering on the edge for several hundred million years before multiple lineages would coexist and leave extant descendants. It is crazy to
    deal with the fact that only one lineage of Archaea and Bacteria
    survived that event around 3.2 billion years ago to leave extant
    descendants.

    Ron Okimoto



    These articles are recent, 2024 and 2024, and I think are part of a
    trend leading to this prediction: discoveries such as "surprisingly
    short time intervals" and "very high rates of evolutionary innovation"
    will continue and stretch naturalistic explanations to the point of
    generally accepted implausibility.


    Right. So Goddidit (TM), then left things to stew for a few billion years
    before popping back to reveal himself to one species. No, wait, he had to
    pop back to invent the flagellum. But otherwise was busy elsewhere.


    _____

    [1] The nature of the last universal common ancestor and its impact on
    the early Earth system
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-024-02461-1

    [2] ATP synthase evolution on a cross-braced dated tree of life
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-42924-w





    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From RonO@rokimoto557@gmail.com to talk-origins on Fri Aug 14 09:34:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    On 8/13/2026 10:05 PM, RonO wrote:
    On 8/13/2026 11:00 AM, RonO wrote:
    On 8/13/2026 3:58 AM, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 17:10:40 +1000
    MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:

    "How evolution proceeded from the origin of life to early
    communities at
    the time of LUCA remains an open question, but the inferred age of LUCA >>>> (~4.2rCeGa) compared with the origin of the Earth and Moon suggests that >>>> the process required A SURPRISINGLY SHORT INTERVAL OF GEOLOGIC
    TIME." [1]

    "...the inferred ages of LUCA and the early ATP synthase duplicates
    seem
    to imply a VERY HIGH RATE OF EVOLUTIONARY INNOVATION during the
    earliest
    period of evolutionary history." [2]

    or maybe a lot of bits were pre-formed elsewhere and delivered by
    meteorites?

    When the paper was published that estimated that LUCA could have
    existed 4.2 billion years ago, I made the claim that it was evidence
    for Crick's notion that life could have been seeded onto the earth
    from elsewhere. The reference is below, and if you go to figure 1 you
    will see that there is evidence that life was seeded onto the earth
    around 3.2 billion years ago.-a It looks like only one lineage of
    Achaea and Bacteria survived past 3.3 billion years ago.-a All lineages
    except for those two suffered extinction or never existed on this
    planet.-a They could have come from another planet in our solar system
    that was amenable to the creation of life before the earth.-a Mars is
    thought to have had liquid water before our planet, and we have
    observed interstellar visitors that have higher concentrations of the
    elements needed to produce life and they came from somewhere else in
    our galaxy.

    Molecular estimates pretty much always seem to over estimate the time
    of divergence.-a Some claim that the estimate is always too old because
    of how we have to estimate it using surviving lineages, and this is an
    estimate based on the shared genes between Archaea and Bacteria, and
    their estimate indicates that there is a billion years where they have
    no calibration about what was happening because we do not have
    branching lineages during that time period.-a They have to assume that
    the rate of change was the same as it was after 3.2 billion years ago
    and that is not a good assumption.-a The rate could have been faster or
    slower after what looks like a major extinction event that nearly
    destroyed life on this planet.-a To imagine that so few lineages
    survived so that everything could be lost except for 2 lucky lineages
    is nuts.-a Just think of how many millions of clonal lineages should
    have existed before the last common ancestors of Archaea (LACA) and
    the last common ancestor of Bacteria (LBCA) existed around 3.2 billion
    years ago.

    It could be explained by space aliens seeding the earth with only two
    types of bacteria in order to terraform the planet.-a Both Archaea and
    Bacteria had chemotrophic and photosynthetic abilities (it may have
    been anaerobic photosynthesis).-a I made the claim that Nyikos would
    have been happy when the paper was first published.

    Both the LACA and LBCA lineages contain evidence that the last
    universal common ancestor (LUCA) existed at some time in the past.
    Some intelligent designer would have had to first design LUCA, let
    life evolve for some period of time before selecting the LACA and LBCA
    lineages to take over the earth.

    MarkE also has to deal with the data telling him that our eukaryotic
    nucleus is derived from the LACA ancestral lineage, and our
    mitochondrial genome is derived from the LBCA ancestral lineage.
    Plant chloroplasts are also derived from the LBCA ancestral lineage.
    This means that eukaryotes evolved from within the Archaea, and
    managed to trap Bacteria to do the heavy lifting for the cell over a
    billion years ago around 2 billion years after the LACA existed.

    This just means that his designer was very busy for billions of years.
    He can't just lie to himself about one aspect of the research and
    ignore everything else that the research tells him.-a MarkE doesn't
    even want life to have existed 4.2 billion years ago.-a Life arose
    during the 3rd day or period of time when plants were created on the
    first continents. He doesn't agree with the Reason to Believe exIDiots
    that claim that life arose early in the existence of our planet before
    the continental land masses that existed during the 3rd period of
    time.-a The Reason to Believe old earth creationists still want land
    plants to be created during the 3rd period of time, but they
    understand that life had been evolving on this planet for billions of
    years before the 3rd period of time.-a Land plants like moss did not
    exist until around 400 million years ago, and the ancestors of the
    angiosperm plants described in the Bible did not evolve until around
    180 million years ago with the grasses (grain plants) not evolving
    until around 80 million years ago.-a Nature isn't Biblical.-a That is
    what this research should tell MarkE, but he can't deal honestly with
    reality.

    Ron Okimoto

    https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2408721121

    The survival of only a single lineage of Archaea and Bacteria surviving
    past 3.2 billion years ago could be evidence that life came from
    somewhere else, and only two types of bacteria were seeded onto the
    planet, but the evidence exists that phototrophes and chemotrophes were already common around this time period.-a This PNAS paper claims that a large meteorite (37-58 km in diameter and could have been 200 times
    larger than the one that killed off the dinos) hit the earth 3.26
    billion years ago.-a The article claims that the impact would have
    destroyed shallow water phototrophic bacteria, but deep water bacteria
    would have survived.-a They also claim that it looks like life quickly rebounded, but the current phylogeny would indicated that life was
    teetering on the edge for several hundred million years before multiple lineages would coexist and leave extant descendants.-a It is crazy to
    deal with the fact that only one lineage of Archaea and Bacteria
    survived that event around 3.2 billion years ago to leave extant descendants.

    Ron Okimoto

    There is also the possibility that Archaea and Bacteria got to the earth
    as part of this large meteorite and managed to out compete the surviving
    Earth lifeforms and eventually took over the biosphere. Life with a
    genetic code and polypeptide enzymatic and structural parts could likely
    out compete life on Earth if that life had not yet evolved to that state.

    Ron Okimoto



    These articles are recent, 2024 and 2024, and I think are part of a
    trend leading to this prediction: discoveries such as "surprisingly
    short time intervals" and "very high rates of evolutionary innovation" >>>> will continue and stretch naturalistic explanations to the point of
    generally accepted implausibility.


    Right. So Goddidit (TM), then left things to stew for a few billion
    years
    before popping back to reveal himself to one species. No, wait, he
    had to
    pop back to invent the flagellum. But otherwise was busy elsewhere.


    _____

    [1] The nature of the last universal common ancestor and its impact on >>>> the early Earth system
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-024-02461-1

    [2] ATP synthase evolution on a cross-braced dated tree of life
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-42924-w






    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2