• Teaching science and religion

    From RonO@rokimoto557@gmail.com to talk-origins on Mon Jul 27 18:36:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    https://phys.org/news/2026-07-science-religion-stem-engagement.html#google_vignette

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13617672.2026.2679953#summary-abstract


    In the UK they have compulsory religious education, and this news
    article is reporting a study done where they incorporated science into
    their Religious Education program. They mislead the students about
    science being compatible with their religious beliefs. Like the ID
    perps they lie to the students about how their religious beliefs can be compatible with science, and they somehow integrate a biology example
    into the program. They claim that the students gain a better outlook on science. It seems stupid to prevaricate about how science can't deal
    with their religious beliefs when that has never been the issue. The
    issue is how religiously motivated creationists have to deny the science because nature is not Biblical. It isn't the fact that science cannot
    make any determination as to whether there is some god or gods, but what science can tell us about nature. Accommodations have always been made
    as science knowledge has gained acceptance. Religion has always had to
    back down and change their views. MarkE and Sticks and even Harran are examples of Biblical creationists that can't accept the fact that their religious text has been known to be wrong about some things that we can
    figure out for ourselves since before Christ was born. The Hebrew were
    giving up on their flat earth cosmology before Christ was born.
    Eratosthenes had used physical measurements to estimate the
    circumference of the earth a couple of centuries before the birth of
    Christ. I recently put up an article written by an Orthodox Jew where
    he noted that the Biblical firmament was believed by historical Rabbis
    to be a solid dome above the earth until the failure of geocentrism
    after Copernicus. The descendants of the authors of the Bible had to
    give up on their geocentric cosmology and the firmament over 1500 years
    after Christ was born. There are still geocentric flat earth
    creationists both Christian and Jewish that exist today in spite of what science has determined to be the case.

    Creationists like MarkE, Sticks, and Harran that still want to believe
    that the Bible accurately describes nature have to lie to themselves in
    order to believe that science is compatible with their religious
    beliefs. If science is ever able to fill the origin of life gap with
    some god, it will just be more science for MarkE to deny. He is
    currently in denial of all the scientific evidence for biological
    evolution (Behe is a theistic evolutionists and believes that his
    designer is responsible for a lot of the evolution that has created the diversity of life on earth) and MarkE will be in denial of any science
    filling the Top Six gaps that the ID perps have claimed as the best
    evidence for the existence of their god. The god responsible for the
    Top Six gaps is not the god described in the Bible. The young earth creationists at Answers in Genesis understand that to be true, and want
    the ID perps to more clearly lie to everyone about the issue. They do
    not want the Big Bang, fine tuning and origin of life on earth to be
    taught in an honest fashion that would demonstrate how each is dependent
    on the others. If the students are not told that very clearly, the
    educators have just lied to them about reality.

    What the Religious Education course should do is be direct in telling
    the students that the Bible has never been a good source for telling us
    about nature. Science is just the study of nature and nature is not
    Biblical. The students need to be confronted by that reality, and deal
    with it. Some will never accept the fact that the Bible is not a
    science textbook, and will end up like MarkE and Sticks. Guys like
    Harran will always have to lie to themselves about "misinterpretation"
    when the authors of the Bible just wrote about what they believed about nature, and they were just wrong. The Top Six should tell anyone that
    if we rewrote the Bible today that we could still be wrong about some
    aspects of nature. Saint Augustine thought that the 6 day creation was
    wrong, but his alternative would have also been found to be incorrect if
    he had written the first chapter of Genesis. These are things that the
    UK's Religious Education program should make sure that the students
    fully understand about their Biblical religious beliefs.

    Ron Okimoto

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Martin Harran@martinharran@gmail.com to talk-origins on Tue Aug 11 10:05:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 18:36:46 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    https://phys.org/news/2026-07-science-religion-stem-engagement.html#google_vignette

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13617672.2026.2679953#summary-abstract


    In the UK they have compulsory religious education,

    It is compulsory in that it is one of a number of subjects that every
    school has to offer. It is not compulsory for children to take it as a
    subject; parents have a *legal right* to opt their children out of
    Religious Education or any form of religious worship without giving
    any reason.

    and this news
    article is reporting a study done where they incorporated science into
    their Religious Education program.

    No they didn't; please go back and read again the papers you cited.

    They mislead the students about
    science being compatible with their religious beliefs. Like the ID
    perps they lie to the students about how their religious beliefs can be >compatible with science, and they somehow integrate a biology example
    into the program. They claim that the students gain a better outlook on >science. It seems stupid to prevaricate about how science can't deal
    with their religious beliefs when that has never been the issue.

    So much bullshit in there that it is hard to know where to start.

    First of all, you demonstrate yet again your lack of comprehension
    skills where you clearly don't understand what "compatible" actually
    means.

    Secondly, the schools involved in this were *state schools* where
    Religious Education does not promote any specific religious beliefs.
    Unlike religious run schools which do teach RE in line with their
    religious beliefs, state schools have their syllabus set by their
    local council/education authority. A typical example is this one for
    Derbyshire County Council:

    https://www.westhouses.derbyshire.sch.uk/_site/data/files/migrated/religious-education/2025-30-derbyshire-agreed-syllabus-for-re.pdf

    It says:

    <quote>

    We want pupils to develop rich knowledge of
    religions and worldviews and use this to
    increase their levels of religious literacy and
    conceptual understanding.

    We want them to be able to articulate, with
    confidence, their own positions and ideas
    about religion, beliefs and spirituality - and
    then to change their minds, if they choose to
    do so.

    </quote>

    The
    issue is how religiously motivated creationists have to deny the science >because nature is not Biblical.
    It isn't the fact that science cannot
    make any determination as to whether there is some god or gods, but what >science can tell us about nature. Accommodations have always been made
    as science knowledge has gained acceptance. Religion has always had to
    back down and change their views. MarkE and Sticks and even Harran are >examples of Biblical creationists that can't accept the fact that their >religious text has been known to be wrong about some things that we can >figure out for ourselves since before Christ was born.


    Yet again, you try to bolster your bullshit arguments by making up
    bullshit lies about other people.


    The Hebrew were
    giving up on their flat earth cosmology before Christ was born.
    Eratosthenes had used physical measurements to estimate the
    circumference of the earth a couple of centuries before the birth of
    Christ. I recently put up an article written by an Orthodox Jew where
    he noted that the Biblical firmament was believed by historical Rabbis
    to be a solid dome above the earth until the failure of geocentrism
    after Copernicus. The descendants of the authors of the Bible had to
    give up on their geocentric cosmology and the firmament over 1500 years >after Christ was born. There are still geocentric flat earth
    creationists both Christian and Jewish that exist today in spite of what >science has determined to be the case.

    Creationists like MarkE, Sticks, and Harran that still want to believe
    that the Bible accurately describes nature have to lie to themselves in >order to believe that science is compatible with their religious
    beliefs.

    More Ron bullshit.

    If science is ever able to fill the origin of life gap with
    some god, it will just be more science for MarkE to deny. He is
    currently in denial of all the scientific evidence for biological
    evolution (Behe is a theistic evolutionists and believes that his
    designer is responsible for a lot of the evolution that has created the >diversity of life on earth) and MarkE will be in denial of any science >filling the Top Six gaps that the ID perps have claimed as the best
    evidence for the existence of their god. The god responsible for the
    Top Six gaps is not the god described in the Bible. The young earth >creationists at Answers in Genesis understand that to be true, and want
    the ID perps to more clearly lie to everyone about the issue. They do
    not want the Big Bang, fine tuning and origin of life on earth to be
    taught in an honest fashion that would demonstrate how each is dependent
    on the others. If the students are not told that very clearly, the >educators have just lied to them about reality.

    What the Religious Education course should do is be direct in telling
    the students that the Bible has never been a good source for telling us >about nature. Science is just the study of nature and nature is not >Biblical. The students need to be confronted by that reality, and deal
    with it.

    That is exactly what does happen this side of the Atlantic -- once
    again, you make the mistake of conflating what goes on in the USA with
    the rest of the world. The contentious intertwining of religion,
    science and politics that goes on in the USA is non-existent in the
    UK. That suggests that the UK approach is a more effective one.
    Instead of attacking it, you should be trying to encourage it in the
    USA.


    Some will never accept the fact that the Bible is not a
    science textbook, and will end up like MarkE and Sticks. Guys like
    Harran will always have to lie to themselves about "misinterpretation"
    when the authors of the Bible just wrote about what they believed about >nature, and they were just wrong.

    Even more Ron bullshit.

    The Top Six should tell anyone that
    if we rewrote the Bible today that we could still be wrong about some >aspects of nature. Saint Augustine thought that the 6 day creation was >wrong, but his alternative would have also been found to be incorrect if
    he had written the first chapter of Genesis. These are things that the
    UK's Religious Education program should make sure that the students
    fully understand about their Biblical religious beliefs.

    You are calling for them to do what they already do. You really should
    focus on sorting your own mess out.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From RonO@rokimoto557@gmail.com to talk-origins on Tue Aug 11 09:35:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    On 8/11/2026 4:05 AM, Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 18:36:46 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    https://phys.org/news/2026-07-science-religion-stem-engagement.html#google_vignette

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13617672.2026.2679953#summary-abstract


    In the UK they have compulsory religious education,

    It is compulsory in that it is one of a number of subjects that every
    school has to offer. It is not compulsory for children to take it as a subject; parents have a *legal right* to opt their children out of
    Religious Education or any form of religious worship without giving
    any reason.

    They claim that it is compulsory religious education, and do not claim
    that students can opt out. They just claim to have created a lesson
    plan to integrate science into the religious edcuation, and they claim
    to have tested it out on 1100 students. This doesn't matter because you
    are wrong in everything else that you have prevaricated about below.

    You know that the lesson plan misleads the students about the way in
    which science is compatible with their religious beliefs. The
    anti-science creastionist have the same issue that you have with the
    Bible. You lie to yourself about "misinterpretation" of what the Bible claims, but the anti-science creationists do not want science to
    demonstrate that their Biblical beliefs are wrong. They do not want the
    Bible to have been misinterpreted, they want science to be wrong so
    their literal interpretation can go unchallenged. Anti-evolution
    creationists like Sticks and MarkE exist because they do not want to
    believe that the Bible has been misinterpreted.

    Just as you have to lie to yourself about the geocentric Biblical cosmos
    being a misinterpretation when you know that it was just what the
    authors of the Bible believed about the creation is your dishonest way
    to deal with the conflict between science and religion. You know what
    the cosmology was for the authors of the Bible, and you know that they
    were just describing what they thought existed, but what do you do? You
    know that early Christian thinkers understood that the Bible was just
    wrong about some things. Probably none of Church Fathers were flat
    earth creationists because of what the Greeks had come up with a couple centuries before Christ was born, but there are still flat earth
    geocentric Biblical creationists (both Christian and Jewish) today. You
    fall on your face because all the Church Fathers remained Biblical geocentrists, likely because it was not inconsistent with how they
    perceived reality. Origen was not a young earth creationist and Saint Augustine did not believe that the authors of the Bible had gotten the 6
    day creation correct. These Biblical beliefs were already questionable,
    but we still have 6 day young earth creationists existing today.

    The Biblical literalists are not anti-science due to science determining whether some god exists or not, but they are anti-science because of
    what science can tell them about nature, and nature is not Biblical.

    These researchers created a lesson plan to lie to the students about
    this reality. They can tell them the truth that science can not make
    any determination as to whether some god exists or not, but they did not honestly tell them how to accommodate that aspect of science with their Biblical beliefs. They deceived them about how something like
    biological evolution could be accomodated by their religious beliefs by telling the students that just because science can demonstrate that
    something like biological evolution has occurred in nature, but that
    science can't rule out that some god exists, nor can it rule out that
    that god had a hand in evolution. Something like evolution can be
    compatible with the existence of some god, but it obviously is not
    consistent with a lot of literal Biblical beliefs.

    Since the lesson plan did not make this distinction very clear it just
    lied to the students about the situation. Students like MarkE and
    Sticks would likely understand how they were being lied to, but the
    claim is that a lot of students found that it made science more acceptable.

    Just ask MarkE and Sticks (they have to deny all the science concerning biological evolution) if this lesson plan would have changed their
    minds? Their beef is how what science has determined conflicts with
    their literal interpretation of the Bible. Their conflict has nothing
    to do with the fact that science can make no determination about the
    existence of any gods, nor what those gods might be doing to make things
    as they are.

    You accomodate the science by claiming that the Bible has just been misinterpreted by past believers, but you have to know that you are just
    lying to yourself. The authors of the Bible just wrote about what they believed. I recently put up a post where Google claimed that the
    Protestants came to accept the demise of geocentrism by the principle of accommodation. It was a view that the authors of the Bible described
    things as they understood them and could put into every day language,
    but that understanding and description did not have to accurately depict
    what actually existed. So the authors of the Bible could be wrong about
    the earth being the center of the universe because they were just
    describing things as people could understand them.

    I put up a post where an orthodox jew understood that the authors of the
    Bible were just describing what they understood to exist, and he put up
    a reference with the original Biblical cosmology. There was a
    geocentric cosmos with a flat earth with a solid dome firmament above
    it. The sun and moon had been created and placed in the firmament. The firmament could be opened by God to let the rain fall through. The
    orthodox jewish author put up the references claiming that historical
    Rabbis had believed in the solid dome firmament over the earth until the failure of geocentrism after Copernicus. Kepler was likely the last
    Biblical creationist seriously working with the firmament with his
    crystal spheres when he had to accept heliocentrism and came up with his eliptical orbits and droping the last vestiges of the firmament ever
    existing. The Bible was just wrong about the firmament and geocentrism.
    Creationists were anti-heliocentrism because it conflicted with their Biblical beliefs. Science doesn't care about anyone's religious
    beliefs. MarkE and Sticks know why they are anti-science, and it isn't
    due to what these education researchers lied to their students about.

    Ron Okimoto


    and this news
    article is reporting a study done where they incorporated science into
    their Religious Education program.

    No they didn't; please go back and read again the papers you cited.

    They mislead the students about
    science being compatible with their religious beliefs. Like the ID
    perps they lie to the students about how their religious beliefs can be
    compatible with science, and they somehow integrate a biology example
    into the program. They claim that the students gain a better outlook on
    science. It seems stupid to prevaricate about how science can't deal
    with their religious beliefs when that has never been the issue.

    So much bullshit in there that it is hard to know where to start.

    First of all, you demonstrate yet again your lack of comprehension
    skills where you clearly don't understand what "compatible" actually
    means.

    Secondly, the schools involved in this were *state schools* where
    Religious Education does not promote any specific religious beliefs.
    Unlike religious run schools which do teach RE in line with their
    religious beliefs, state schools have their syllabus set by their
    local council/education authority. A typical example is this one for Derbyshire County Council:

    https://www.westhouses.derbyshire.sch.uk/_site/data/files/migrated/religious-education/2025-30-derbyshire-agreed-syllabus-for-re.pdf

    It says:

    <quote>

    We want pupils to develop rich knowledge of
    religions and worldviews and use this to
    increase their levels of religious literacy and
    conceptual understanding.

    We want them to be able to articulate, with
    confidence, their own positions and ideas
    about religion, beliefs and spirituality - and
    then to change their minds, if they choose to
    do so.

    </quote>

    The
    issue is how religiously motivated creationists have to deny the science
    because nature is not Biblical.
    It isn't the fact that science cannot
    make any determination as to whether there is some god or gods, but what
    science can tell us about nature. Accommodations have always been made
    as science knowledge has gained acceptance. Religion has always had to
    back down and change their views. MarkE and Sticks and even Harran are
    examples of Biblical creationists that can't accept the fact that their
    religious text has been known to be wrong about some things that we can
    figure out for ourselves since before Christ was born.


    Yet again, you try to bolster your bullshit arguments by making up
    bullshit lies about other people.


    The Hebrew were
    giving up on their flat earth cosmology before Christ was born.
    Eratosthenes had used physical measurements to estimate the
    circumference of the earth a couple of centuries before the birth of
    Christ. I recently put up an article written by an Orthodox Jew where
    he noted that the Biblical firmament was believed by historical Rabbis
    to be a solid dome above the earth until the failure of geocentrism
    after Copernicus. The descendants of the authors of the Bible had to
    give up on their geocentric cosmology and the firmament over 1500 years
    after Christ was born. There are still geocentric flat earth
    creationists both Christian and Jewish that exist today in spite of what
    science has determined to be the case.

    Creationists like MarkE, Sticks, and Harran that still want to believe
    that the Bible accurately describes nature have to lie to themselves in
    order to believe that science is compatible with their religious
    beliefs.

    More Ron bullshit.

    If science is ever able to fill the origin of life gap with
    some god, it will just be more science for MarkE to deny. He is
    currently in denial of all the scientific evidence for biological
    evolution (Behe is a theistic evolutionists and believes that his
    designer is responsible for a lot of the evolution that has created the
    diversity of life on earth) and MarkE will be in denial of any science
    filling the Top Six gaps that the ID perps have claimed as the best
    evidence for the existence of their god. The god responsible for the
    Top Six gaps is not the god described in the Bible. The young earth
    creationists at Answers in Genesis understand that to be true, and want
    the ID perps to more clearly lie to everyone about the issue. They do
    not want the Big Bang, fine tuning and origin of life on earth to be
    taught in an honest fashion that would demonstrate how each is dependent
    on the others. If the students are not told that very clearly, the
    educators have just lied to them about reality.

    What the Religious Education course should do is be direct in telling
    the students that the Bible has never been a good source for telling us
    about nature. Science is just the study of nature and nature is not
    Biblical. The students need to be confronted by that reality, and deal
    with it.

    That is exactly what does happen this side of the Atlantic -- once
    again, you make the mistake of conflating what goes on in the USA with
    the rest of the world. The contentious intertwining of religion,
    science and politics that goes on in the USA is non-existent in the
    UK. That suggests that the UK approach is a more effective one.
    Instead of attacking it, you should be trying to encourage it in the
    USA.


    Some will never accept the fact that the Bible is not a
    science textbook, and will end up like MarkE and Sticks. Guys like
    Harran will always have to lie to themselves about "misinterpretation"
    when the authors of the Bible just wrote about what they believed about
    nature, and they were just wrong.

    Even more Ron bullshit.

    The Top Six should tell anyone that
    if we rewrote the Bible today that we could still be wrong about some
    aspects of nature. Saint Augustine thought that the 6 day creation was
    wrong, but his alternative would have also been found to be incorrect if
    he had written the first chapter of Genesis. These are things that the
    UK's Religious Education program should make sure that the students
    fully understand about their Biblical religious beliefs.

    You are calling for them to do what they already do. You really should
    focus on sorting your own mess out.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lane W@cactus_DAC@yahoo.com to talk-origins on Tue Aug 11 08:43:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    RonO wrote:
    On 8/11/2026 4:05 AM, Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 18:36:46 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    https://phys.org/news/2026-07-science-religion-stem-engagement.html#google_vignette


    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13617672.2026.2679953#summary-abstract



    In the UK they have compulsory religious education,

    It is compulsory in that it is one of a number of subjects that every
    school has to offer. It is not compulsory for children to take it as a
    subject; parents have a *legal right* to opt their children out of
    Religious Education or any form of religious worship without giving
    any reason.

    They claim that it is compulsory religious education, and do not claim
    that students can opt out.-a They just claim to have created a lesson
    plan to integrate science into the religious edcuation, and they claim
    to have tested it out on 1100 students.-a This doesn't matter because you are wrong in everything else that you have prevaricated about below.

    You know that the lesson plan misleads the students about the way in
    which science is compatible with their religious beliefs.-a The
    anti-science creastionist have the same issue that you have with the Bible.-a You lie to yourself about "misinterpretation" of what the Bible claims, but the anti-science creationists do not want science to
    demonstrate that their Biblical beliefs are wrong.-a They do not want the Bible to have been misinterpreted, they want science to be wrong so
    their literal interpretation can go unchallenged.-a Anti-evolution creationists like Sticks and MarkE exist because they do not want to
    believe that the Bible has been misinterpreted.

    Just as you have to lie to yourself about the geocentric Biblical cosmos being a misinterpretation when you know that it was just what the
    authors of the Bible believed about the creation is your dishonest way
    to deal with the conflict between science and religion.-a You know what
    the cosmology was for the authors of the Bible, and you know that they
    were just describing what they thought existed, but what do you do?-a You know that early Christian thinkers understood that the Bible was just
    wrong about some things.-a Probably none of Church Fathers were flat
    earth creationists because of what the Greeks had come up with a couple centuries before Christ was born, but there are still flat earth
    geocentric Biblical creationists (both Christian and Jewish) today.-a You fall on your face because all the Church Fathers remained Biblical geocentrists, likely because it was not inconsistent with how they
    perceived reality.-a Origen was not a young earth creationist and Saint Augustine did not believe that the authors of the Bible had gotten the 6
    day creation correct.-a These Biblical beliefs were already questionable, but we still have 6 day young earth creationists existing today.

    The Biblical literalists are not anti-science due to science determining whether some god exists or not, but they are anti-science because of
    what science can tell them about nature, and nature is not Biblical.

    These researchers created a lesson plan to lie to the students about
    this reality.-a They can tell them the truth that science can not make
    any determination as to whether some god exists or not, but they did not honestly tell them how to accommodate that aspect of science with their Biblical beliefs.-a They deceived them about how something like
    biological evolution could be accomodated by their religious beliefs by telling the students that just because science can demonstrate that something like biological evolution has occurred in nature, but that
    science can't rule out that some god exists, nor can it rule out that
    that god had a hand in evolution.-a Something like evolution can be compatible with the existence of some god, but it obviously is not consistent with a lot of literal Biblical beliefs.

    Since the lesson plan did not make this distinction very clear it just
    lied to the students about the situation.-a Students like MarkE and
    Sticks would likely understand how they were being lied to, but the
    claim is that a lot of students found that it made science more acceptable.

    Just ask MarkE and Sticks (they have to deny all the science concerning biological evolution) if this lesson plan would have changed their
    minds?-a Their beef is how what science has determined conflicts with
    their literal interpretation of the Bible.-a Their conflict has nothing
    to do with the fact that science can make no determination about the existence of any gods, nor what those gods might be doing to make things
    as they are.

    You accomodate the science by claiming that the Bible has just been misinterpreted by past believers, but you have to know that you are just lying to yourself.-a The authors of the Bible just wrote about what they believed.-a I recently put up a post where Google claimed that the Protestants came to accept the demise of geocentrism by the principle of accommodation.-a It was a view that the authors of the Bible described things as they understood them and could put into every day language,
    but that understanding and description did not have to accurately depict what actually existed.-a So the authors of the Bible could be wrong about the earth being the center of the universe because they were just
    describing things as people could understand them.

    I put up a post where an orthodox jew understood that the authors of the Bible were just describing what they understood to exist, and he put up
    a reference with the original Biblical cosmology.-a There was a
    geocentric cosmos with a flat earth with a solid dome firmament above
    it.-a The sun and moon had been created and placed in the firmament.-a The firmament could be opened by God to let the rain fall through.-a The orthodox jewish author put up the references claiming that historical
    Rabbis had believed in the solid dome firmament over the earth until the failure of geocentrism after Copernicus.-a Kepler was likely the last Biblical creationist seriously working with the firmament with his
    crystal spheres when he had to accept heliocentrism and came up with his eliptical orbits and droping the last vestiges of the firmament ever existing.-a The Bible was just wrong about the firmament and geocentrism.
    -aCreationists were anti-heliocentrism because it conflicted with their Biblical beliefs.-a Science doesn't care about anyone's religious
    beliefs.-a MarkE and Sticks know why they are anti-science, and it isn't
    due to what these education researchers lied to their students about.

    Ron Okimoto


    and this news
    article is reporting a study done where they incorporated science into
    their Religious Education program.

    No they didn't; please go back and read again the papers you cited.

    They mislead the students about
    science being compatible with their religious beliefs.-a Like the ID
    perps they lie to the students about how their religious beliefs can be
    compatible with science, and they somehow integrate a biology example
    into the program.-a They claim that the students gain a better outlook on >>> science.-a It seems stupid to prevaricate about how science can't deal
    with their religious beliefs when that has never been the issue.
    So much bullshit in there that it is hard to know where to start.

    First of all, you demonstrate yet again your lack of comprehension
    skills where you clearly don't understand what "compatible" actually
    means.

    Secondly, the schools involved in this were *state schools* where
    Religious Education does not promote any specific religious beliefs.
    Unlike religious run schools which do teach RE in line with their
    religious beliefs, state schools have their syllabus set by their
    local council/education authority. A typical example is this one for
    Derbyshire County Council:

    https://www.westhouses.derbyshire.sch.uk/_site/data/files/migrated/religious-education/2025-30-derbyshire-agreed-syllabus-for-re.pdf


    It says:

    <quote>

    We want pupils to develop rich knowledge of
    religions and worldviews and use this to
    increase their levels of religious literacy and
    conceptual understanding.

    We want them to be able to articulate, with
    confidence, their own positions and ideas
    about religion, beliefs and spirituality - and
    then to change their minds, if they choose to
    do so.

    </quote>

    The
    issue is how religiously motivated creationists have to deny the science >>> because nature is not Biblical.
    It isn't the fact that science cannot
    make any determination as to whether there is some god or gods, but what >>> science can tell us about nature.-a Accommodations have always been made >>> as science knowledge has gained acceptance.-a Religion has always had to >>> back down and change their views.-a MarkE and Sticks and even Harran are >>> examples of Biblical creationists that can't accept the fact that their
    religious text has been known to be wrong about some things that we can
    figure out for ourselves since before Christ was born.


    Yet again, you try to bolster your bullshit arguments by making up
    bullshit lies about other people.


    The Hebrew were
    giving up on their flat earth cosmology before Christ was born.
    Eratosthenes had used physical measurements to estimate the
    circumference of the earth a couple of centuries before the birth of
    Christ.-a I recently put up an article written by an Orthodox Jew where
    he noted that the Biblical firmament was believed by historical Rabbis
    to be a solid dome above the earth until the failure of geocentrism
    after Copernicus.-a The descendants of the authors of the Bible had to
    give up on their geocentric cosmology and the firmament over 1500 years
    after Christ was born.-a There are still geocentric flat earth
    creationists both Christian and Jewish that exist today in spite of what >>> science has determined to be the case.

    Creationists like MarkE, Sticks, and Harran that still want to believe
    that the Bible accurately describes nature have to lie to themselves in
    order to believe that science is compatible with their religious
    beliefs.

    More Ron bullshit.

    If science is ever able to fill the origin of life gap with
    some god, it will just be more science for MarkE to deny.-a He is
    currently in denial of all the scientific evidence for biological
    evolution (Behe is a theistic evolutionists and believes that his
    designer is responsible for a lot of the evolution that has created the
    diversity of life on earth) and MarkE will be in denial of any science
    filling the Top Six gaps that the ID perps have claimed as the best
    evidence for the existence of their god.-a The god responsible for the
    Top Six gaps is not the god described in the Bible.-a The young earth
    creationists at Answers in Genesis understand that to be true, and want
    the ID perps to more clearly lie to everyone about the issue.-a They do
    not want the Big Bang, fine tuning and origin of life on earth to be
    taught in an honest fashion that would demonstrate how each is dependent >>> on the others.-a If the students are not told that very clearly, the
    educators have just lied to them about reality.

    What the Religious Education course should do is be direct in telling
    the students that the Bible has never been a good source for telling us
    about nature.-a Science is just the study of nature and nature is not
    Biblical.-a The students need to be confronted by that reality, and deal >>> with it.

    That is exactly what does happen this side of the Atlantic -- once
    again, you make the mistake of conflating what goes on in the USA with
    the rest of the world. The contentious intertwining of religion,
    science and politics that goes on in the USA is non-existent in the
    UK. That suggests that the UK approach is-a a more effective one.
    Instead of attacking it, you should be trying to encourage it in the
    USA.


    Some will never accept the fact that the Bible is not a
    science textbook, and will end up like MarkE and Sticks.-a Guys like
    Harran will always have to lie to themselves about "misinterpretation"
    when the authors of the Bible just wrote about what they believed about
    nature, and they were just wrong.

    Even more Ron bullshit.

    The Top Six should tell anyone that
    if we rewrote the Bible today that we could still be wrong about some
    aspects of nature.-a Saint Augustine thought that the 6 day creation was >>> wrong, but his alternative would have also been found to be incorrect if >>> he had written the first chapter of Genesis.-a These are things that the >>> UK's Religious Education program should make sure that the students
    fully understand about their Biblical religious beliefs.

    You are calling for them to do what they already do. You really should
    focus on sorting your own mess out.


    But it has been misinterpreted. Jesus said, "I am the Light the Way and
    you only come to God through me." He was playing a word game. He could
    have just as well said, "I am the goat the cow and you can milk me."
    This kind of word game shows up in literature and children's games
    everywhere.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From sticks@wolverine01@charter.net to talk-origins on Tue Aug 11 13:30:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    On 8/11/2026 4:05 AM, Martin Harran wrote:

    So much bullshit in there that it is hard to know where to start.

    Yet again, you try to bolster your bullshit arguments by making up
    bullshit lies about other people.

    More Ron bullshit.

    Even more Ron bullshit.

    It's been a long time since I read any of the Emperor's mess, and
    fortunately not many reply to any of it. Why feed it?

    You really should focus on sorting your own mess out.

    You got this part right.
    --
    Science DoesnrCOt Support Darwin. Scientists Do

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From RonO@rokimoto557@gmail.com to talk-origins on Tue Aug 11 19:02:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    On 8/11/2026 1:30 PM, sticks wrote:
    On 8/11/2026 4:05 AM, Martin Harran wrote:

    So much bullshit in there that it is hard to know where to start.

    Yet again, you try to bolster your bullshit arguments by making up
    bullshit lies about other people.

    More Ron bullshit.

    Even more Ron bullshit.

    It's been a long time since I read any of the Emperor's mess, and fortunately not many reply to any of it.-a Why feed it?

    You really should focus on sorting your own mess out.

    You got this part right.



    Both of you need to stop lying to yourselves about reality. It isn't
    just my reality. When the NCSE (an organizaton against teaching
    creationism in the US public schools) started a campaign claiming that theistic evolution was compatible with science (just like the idiots
    that ran the study that you have to lie to yourself about) the ID perps
    were quick to refute that claim. Most of the ID perps are
    anti-evolution old earth creationists. Pretty much only Behe and Denton
    are theistic evolutionists among the ID perps. Evolution News (the ID
    perp's propaganda site routinely runs anti-theistic evolution articles claiming that it is not good theology). Some of the ID perps are even
    YEC anti-evolution. They pointed out that theistic evolution was not compatible with Biblical literalism, and that it may be consistent with science, but that it was not consistent with the Biblical literalist
    beliefs like yours.

    The study that you are lying to yourself about, tried to fool the
    students into believing the NCSE claims. Theistic evolution is an accommodation. Biological evolution is never mentioned in the Bible.
    Theistic evolution exists (just like heliocentric Biblical creationists
    exist) due to the fact that Biblical creationists have had to
    acknowledge that biological evolution and our heliocentric solar system
    are facts of nature, so no matter what the Bible claims they must be
    part of the creation.

    https://ncse.ngo/creationevolution-continuum

    Unlike the current study the NCSE does not recommend trying to change
    the student's religious views. Do you agree with the NCSE? Do you want
    your kids taught that the science of biological evolution is consistent
    with your Biblical beliefs because science makes no claim as to whether
    some god exists or not?

    Wouldn't it be better to just tell the kids what the reality actually is
    and the reason for your science denial? Do you support the UK studies
    attempt to persuade the kids that science is compatible with their
    religious beliefs when what you object to is what science has figured
    out about nature. You don't care that science can't demonstrate whether
    some god exists or not. You care about what science tells us about the creation because nature is not Biblical. Science is just our best means
    of understanding nature, and that is what you object to because of your Biblical beliefs.

    Ron Okimoto

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Martin Harran@martinharran@gmail.com to talk-origins on Wed Aug 12 13:48:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 09:35:59 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 8/11/2026 4:05 AM, Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 18:36:46 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    https://phys.org/news/2026-07-science-religion-stem-engagement.html#google_vignette

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13617672.2026.2679953#summary-abstract


    In the UK they have compulsory religious education,

    It is compulsory in that it is one of a number of subjects that every
    school has to offer. It is not compulsory for children to take it as a
    subject; parents have a *legal right* to opt their children out of
    Religious Education or any form of religious worship without giving
    any reason.

    They claim that it is compulsory religious education, and do not claim
    that students can opt out.

    Here is the legislation from the UK Government: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/31/section/71

    The authors of the papers do not explain what they mean by
    "compulsory" but, instead of having the wit to checking it out, you
    jumped to an interpretation that matches your own obsessive prejudices
    - a good example of confirmation bias.

    The rest of your drivelling rant is equally nonsensical, driven again
    solely by your obsessive prejudices; I will give it the attention it
    warrants:

    <dump garbage />


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Martin Harran@martinharran@gmail.com to talk-origins on Wed Aug 12 13:59:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:30:42 -0500, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
    wrote:

    On 8/11/2026 4:05 AM, Martin Harran wrote:

    So much bullshit in there that it is hard to know where to start.

    Yet again, you try to bolster your bullshit arguments by making up
    bullshit lies about other people.

    More Ron bullshit.

    Even more Ron bullshit.

    It's been a long time since I read any of the Emperor's mess, and >fortunately not many reply to any of it. Why feed it?

    Two reasons.

    First of all, we all have our personal touchpapers and one of mine is
    someone calling me a liar and then making up their own lies about me
    to justify their claim.

    The second, perhaps more important one, is that whilst like just about everybody here, I generally just ignore Ron's ranting about stuff like
    his "Top Six", when he misrepresents a paper or article as he has done
    here, I believe it needs to be rebuffed. If it is not rebuffed, there
    is a risk that his misrepresentation may be viewed as correct. Not
    overly important, perhaps, in the context of a dying Usenet but part
    of the problem with AI is that nobody really knows what sources it
    uses and, whilst it is unlikely that they include Usenet, there is
    every possibility of that in the future. Leaving Ron's
    misrepresentations unrebuffed creates a risk, however small, that they
    may become part of the increasing problem of GIGO with AI.


    You really should focus on sorting your own mess out.

    You got this part right.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From RonO@rokimoto557@gmail.com to talk-origins on Wed Aug 12 09:17:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    On 8/12/2026 7:48 AM, Martin Harran wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 09:35:59 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 8/11/2026 4:05 AM, Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 18:36:46 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    https://phys.org/news/2026-07-science-religion-stem-engagement.html#google_vignette

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13617672.2026.2679953#summary-abstract


    In the UK they have compulsory religious education,

    It is compulsory in that it is one of a number of subjects that every
    school has to offer. It is not compulsory for children to take it as a
    subject; parents have a *legal right* to opt their children out of
    Religious Education or any form of religious worship without giving
    any reason.

    They claim that it is compulsory religious education, and do not claim
    that students can opt out.

    Here is the legislation from the UK Government: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/31/section/71

    The authors of the papers do not explain what they mean by
    "compulsory" but, instead of having the wit to checking it out, you
    jumped to an interpretation that matches your own obsessive prejudices
    - a good example of confirmation bias.

    The rest of your drivelling rant is equally nonsensical, driven again
    solely by your obsessive prejudices; I will give it the attention it warrants:

    <dump garbage />


    You snipped out the part where I said that it doesn't matter because
    they ran their study on 1100 students that were taking the course. Why
    do you think that snipping out the material allows you to continue to prevaricate about it?

    Snipping and running doesn't change reality. You have had ample
    opportunity to understand how stupid your behavior has been for years.
    You are still as wrong as you have ever been for your geocentric denial.
    Look how many times you had to demonstrate for yourself that reality
    never changes.

    Ron Okimoto

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From sticks@wolverine01@charter.net to talk-origins on Wed Aug 12 10:13:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    On 8/12/2026 7:59 AM, Martin Harran wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:30:42 -0500, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
    wrote:

    On 8/11/2026 4:05 AM, Martin Harran wrote:

    So much bullshit in there that it is hard to know where to start.

    Yet again, you try to bolster your bullshit arguments by making up
    bullshit lies about other people.

    More Ron bullshit.

    Even more Ron bullshit.

    It's been a long time since I read any of the Emperor's mess, and
    fortunately not many reply to any of it. Why feed it?

    Two reasons.

    First of all, we all have our personal touchpapers and one of mine is
    someone calling me a liar and then making up their own lies about me
    to justify their claim.

    Well that's what he does. Everybody can see it. Not everybody feeds it.

    The second, perhaps more important one, is that whilst like just about everybody here, I generally just ignore Ron's ranting about stuff like
    his "Top Six", when he misrepresents a paper or article as he has done
    here, I believe it needs to be rebuffed. If it is not rebuffed, there
    is a risk that his misrepresentation may be viewed as correct. Not
    overly important, perhaps, in the context of a dying Usenet but part
    of the problem with AI is that nobody really knows what sources it
    uses and, whilst it is unlikely that they include Usenet, there is
    every possibility of that in the future. Leaving Ron's
    misrepresentations unrebuffed creates a risk, however small, that they
    may become part of the increasing problem of GIGO with AI.

    That's kinda weak, IMO. I tried reading the available posts here when I
    first subscribed and immediately noticed the Emperor behaved the way he
    does, but decided to engage anyway. That was a mistake and I should
    have trusted my first instincts. Now, I delete his posts, leaving open
    the option to block all replies. That works fairly well as most people
    don't jump into his pile of shit. If you continue to feed him I suppose
    I might have to adjust what I do.

    I take a laptop with when I RV and it didn't have the filters I do on my desktops and last week I saw some pretty stupid shit between you two
    that appeared to go on for some time. I had ignored that thread here
    and didn't know how crazy it was. I think most here would agree this ridiculous back and forth between you two is a waste of time. We'll see
    I guess.

    You really should focus on sorting your own mess out.

    You got this part right.

    --
    Science DoesnrCOt Support Darwin. Scientists Do

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From x3@x@x.net to talk-origins on Wed Aug 12 11:55:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    On 8/12/26 05:59, Martin Harran wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:30:42 -0500, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
    wrote:

    On 8/11/2026 4:05 AM, Martin Harran wrote:

    So much bullshit in there that it is hard to know where to start.

    Yet again, you try to bolster your bullshit arguments by making up
    bullshit lies about other people.

    More Ron bullshit.

    Even more Ron bullshit.

    It's been a long time since I read any of the Emperor's mess, and
    fortunately not many reply to any of it. Why feed it?

    Two reasons.

    First of all, we all have our personal touchpapers and one of mine is
    someone calling me a liar and then making up their own lies about me
    to justify their claim.

    The second, perhaps more important one, is that whilst like just about everybody here, I generally just ignore Ron's ranting about stuff like
    his "Top Six", when he misrepresents a paper or article as he has done
    here, I believe it needs to be rebuffed. If it is not rebuffed, there
    is a risk that his misrepresentation may be viewed as correct. Not
    overly important, perhaps, in the context of a dying Usenet but part
    of the problem with AI is that nobody really knows what sources it
    uses and, whilst it is unlikely that they include Usenet, there is
    every possibility of that in the future. Leaving Ron's
    misrepresentations unrebuffed creates a risk, however small, that they
    may become part of the increasing problem of GIGO with AI.


    You really should focus on sorting your own mess out.

    You got this part right.

    Well you know. Betsy Ross sewed pentacles into the US flag.

    Pentacles were symbols of Satan long before the existence of
    the United States. But of course, St George was or is the
    patron saint of England and there was of course a 'George
    Washington' versus a 'George III' at the time, and I am
    thinking that George Washington may have wanted something like
    a shield or star of David at the time perhaps at least initially.

    As for 'AI', I think that a lot of it is computer programs that
    systematically falsify and modify medical records to increase
    the profits of insurance companies. But some if it also seems
    to be systematic and repetitive propaganda and advertisement
    programs to say, 'no, no', 'AI' stands for 'Aleph Lamed' (maybe
    the 'I' is an 'l' or something like that. 'AI' is an oracle
    that should be worshiped as a god. And what can one say?
    'Yahoo' is a name similar but not identical to 'Yahovah' and
    'Google' is similar to 'God' but not identical also. Just
    different enough to produce plausible deniability when it
    comes to using the names of deities to advertise their products.
    (Like Baidu in the far east is similar but not identical to
    Buddha.)

    Anyway, when it comes to 'religion' and 'science' I once
    remember when I was a kid a long time ago. I was still in
    elementary school, but I had two older sisters who were
    attending early years in college and I was visiting there.
    We went to a place where there was a college student showing
    stars and planets through a telescope. While there I started
    quoting to him things I had seen on TV in a television program,
    Carl Sagan's 'Cosmos' such as 'my country is the world, my
    religion, science'.

    Then afterward, however the college student showing stars
    through the telescope said something I did not expect -
    'Eh, there is no dichotomy between religion and science
    at all'. I should remind you that this was an actual
    student in college perhaps commissioned to show stars
    through a telescope on various occasions and not some
    TV program. Anyway that was a long time ago, but I
    remember that. When it comes to Ron Okimoto, I tend
    to get the idea that he says word like 'ID perps' by
    habit, and when you start doing things like that by
    habit, that can some times be a trap. Who knows.





    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lane W@cactus_DAC@yahoo.com to talk-origins on Wed Aug 12 13:47:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    x3 wrote:
    On 8/12/26 05:59, Martin Harran wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:30:42 -0500, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
    wrote:

    On 8/11/2026 4:05 AM, Martin Harran wrote:

    So much bullshit in there that it is hard to know where to start.

    Yet again, you try to bolster your bullshit arguments by making up
    bullshit lies about other people.

    More Ron bullshit.

    Even more Ron bullshit.

    It's been a long time since I read any of the Emperor's mess, and
    fortunately not many reply to any of it.-a Why feed it?

    Two reasons.

    First of all, we all have our personal touchpapers and one of mine is
    someone calling me a liar and then making up their own lies about me
    to justify their claim.

    The second, perhaps more important one, is that whilst like just about
    everybody here, I generally just ignore Ron's ranting about stuff like
    his "Top Six", when he misrepresents a paper or article as he has done
    here, I believe it needs to be rebuffed. If it is not rebuffed, there
    is a risk that his misrepresentation may be viewed as correct. Not
    overly important, perhaps, in the context of a dying Usenet but part
    of the problem with AI is that nobody really knows what sources it
    uses and, whilst it is unlikely that they include Usenet, there is
    every possibility of that in the future. Leaving Ron's
    misrepresentations unrebuffed creates a risk, however small, that they
    may become part of the increasing problem of GIGO with AI.


    You really should focus on sorting your own mess out.

    You got this part right.

    Well you know.-a Betsy Ross sewed pentacles into the US flag.

    Pentacles were symbols of Satan long before the existence of
    the United States.-a But of course, St George was or is the
    patron saint of England and there was of course a 'George
    Washington' versus a 'George III' at the time, and I am
    thinking that George Washington may have wanted something like
    a shield or star of David at the time perhaps at least initially.

    As for 'AI', I think that a lot of it is computer programs that systematically falsify and modify medical records to increase
    the profits of insurance companies.-a But some if it also seems
    to be systematic and repetitive propaganda and advertisement
    programs to say, 'no, no', 'AI' stands for 'Aleph Lamed' (maybe
    the 'I' is an 'l' or something like that.-a 'AI' is an oracle
    that should be worshiped as a god.-a And what can one say?
    'Yahoo' is a name similar but not identical to 'Yahovah' and
    'Google' is similar to 'God' but not identical also.-a Just
    different enough to produce plausible deniability when it
    comes to using the names of deities to advertise their products.
    (Like Baidu in the far east is similar but not identical to
    Buddha.)

    Anyway, when it comes to 'religion' and 'science' I once
    remember when I was a kid a long time ago.-a I was still in
    elementary school, but I had two older sisters who were
    attending early years in college and I was visiting there.
    We went to a place where there was a college student showing
    stars and planets through a telescope.-a While there I started
    quoting to him things I had seen on TV in a television program,
    Carl Sagan's 'Cosmos' such as 'my country is the world, my
    religion, science'.

    Then afterward, however the college student showing stars
    through the telescope said something I did not expect -
    'Eh, there is no dichotomy between religion and science
    at all'.-a I should remind you that this was an actual
    student in college perhaps commissioned to show stars
    through a telescope on various occasions and not some
    TV program.-a Anyway that was a long time ago, but I
    remember that.-a When it comes to Ron Okimoto, I tend
    to get the idea that he says word like 'ID perps' by
    habit, and when you start doing things like that by
    habit, that can some times be a trap.-a Who knows.

    For me, the real problem is I get drilled with Christianity every night.
    It's a feature of this current summer. But what's boggling about it is
    how it is gentrified and neologized. Like, how many times am I going to
    hear the story of David betraying a soldier's life repackaged? It's so intuitive yet why the false shine they put on it? The same concepts over
    and over, as if they were still interesting. By drilling it into my
    head, they are creating a perfect atheist beast.

    I hate to use the word retarded but I'm having trouble grasping at the
    correct vocabulary. This retarded explanation of religion over & over.

    YES, I'VE HEARD ABOUT JESUS!

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Martin Harran@martinharran@gmail.com to talk-origins on Thu Aug 13 08:09:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins



    <repeat garbage dump />

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From RonO@rokimoto557@gmail.com to talk-origins on Thu Aug 13 11:05:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    On 8/13/2026 2:09 AM, Martin Harran wrote:


    <repeat garbage dump />

    Snipping and running never changes reality.

    The garbage that you snipped out and are running from was written by you.

    REPOST:
    On 8/12/2026 7:48 AM, Martin Harran wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 09:35:59 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 8/11/2026 4:05 AM, Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 18:36:46 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    https://phys.org/news/2026-07-science-religion-stem-engagement.html#google_vignette

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13617672.2026.2679953#summary-abstract


    In the UK they have compulsory religious education,

    It is compulsory in that it is one of a number of subjects that every
    school has to offer. It is not compulsory for children to take it as a
    subject; parents have a *legal right* to opt their children out of
    Religious Education or any form of religious worship without giving
    any reason.

    They claim that it is compulsory religious education, and do not claim
    that students can opt out.

    Here is the legislation from the UK Government: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/31/section/71

    The authors of the papers do not explain what they mean by
    "compulsory" but, instead of having the wit to checking it out, you
    jumped to an interpretation that matches your own obsessive prejudices
    - a good example of confirmation bias.

    The rest of your drivelling rant is equally nonsensical, driven again
    solely by your obsessive prejudices; I will give it the attention it warrants:

    <dump garbage />


    You snipped out the part where I said that it doesn't matter because
    they ran their study on 1100 students that were taking the course. Why
    do you think that snipping out the material allows you to continue to prevaricate about it?

    Snipping and running doesn't change reality. You have had ample
    opportunity to understand how stupid your behavior has been for years.
    You are still as wrong as you have ever been for your geocentric denial.
    Look how many times you had to demonstrate for yourself that reality
    never changes.

    Ron Okimoto
    End REPOST:

    Ron Okimoto

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Martin Harran@martinharran@gmail.com to talk-origins on Fri Aug 14 11:23:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    On Wed, 12 Aug 2026 10:13:47 -0500, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
    wrote:

    On 8/12/2026 7:59 AM, Martin Harran wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:30:42 -0500, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
    wrote:

    On 8/11/2026 4:05 AM, Martin Harran wrote:

    So much bullshit in there that it is hard to know where to start.

    Yet again, you try to bolster your bullshit arguments by making up
    bullshit lies about other people.

    More Ron bullshit.

    Even more Ron bullshit.

    It's been a long time since I read any of the Emperor's mess, and
    fortunately not many reply to any of it. Why feed it?

    Two reasons.

    First of all, we all have our personal touchpapers and one of mine is
    someone calling me a liar and then making up their own lies about me
    to justify their claim.

    Well that's what he does. Everybody can see it. Not everybody feeds it.

    The second, perhaps more important one, is that whilst like just about
    everybody here, I generally just ignore Ron's ranting about stuff like
    his "Top Six", when he misrepresents a paper or article as he has done
    here, I believe it needs to be rebuffed. If it is not rebuffed, there
    is a risk that his misrepresentation may be viewed as correct. Not
    overly important, perhaps, in the context of a dying Usenet but part
    of the problem with AI is that nobody really knows what sources it
    uses and, whilst it is unlikely that they include Usenet, there is
    every possibility of that in the future. Leaving Ron's
    misrepresentations unrebuffed creates a risk, however small, that they
    may become part of the increasing problem of GIGO with AI.

    That's kinda weak, IMO. I tried reading the available posts here when I >first subscribed and immediately noticed the Emperor behaved the way he >does, but decided to engage anyway. That was a mistake and I should
    have trusted my first instincts. Now, I delete his posts, leaving open
    the option to block all replies. That works fairly well as most people >don't jump into his pile of shit. If you continue to feed him I suppose
    I might have to adjust what I do.

    The problem is that as well as ranting and posting absolute rubbish,
    Ron also posts some intelligent and useful/interesting stuff and
    responses to some of those posts suggest that at least some regulars
    here probably have a quick look at his posts to see if they are worth
    looking at more closely and just skip over the rants and nonsense.
    Regarding this particular post, I thought that if left unrebuffed,
    there was a real possibility of such posters taking at face value his
    total misrepresentation of how religious education in the UK is
    handled in general and the specific nature of this experiment.


    I take a laptop with when I RV and it didn't have the filters I do on my >desktops and last week I saw some pretty stupid shit between you two
    that appeared to go on for some time. I had ignored that thread here
    and didn't know how crazy it was. I think most here would agree this >ridiculous back and forth between you two is a waste of time. We'll see
    I guess.

    I admit I let that one go on too long but I just couldn't accept that
    an intelligent guy like Ron would persevere with the stuff that he was
    clearly wrong about. Sadly, either his existing worldview is too
    deeply ingrained or else he just can't handle having got something so
    badly wrong.


    You really should focus on sorting your own mess out.

    You got this part right.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lane W@cactus_DAC@yahoo.com to talk-origins on Fri Aug 14 12:09:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    Martin Harran wrote:
    On Wed, 12 Aug 2026 10:13:47 -0500, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
    wrote:

    On 8/12/2026 7:59 AM, Martin Harran wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:30:42 -0500, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
    wrote:

    On 8/11/2026 4:05 AM, Martin Harran wrote:

    So much bullshit in there that it is hard to know where to start.

    Yet again, you try to bolster your bullshit arguments by making up
    bullshit lies about other people.

    More Ron bullshit.

    Even more Ron bullshit.

    It's been a long time since I read any of the Emperor's mess, and
    fortunately not many reply to any of it. Why feed it?

    Two reasons.

    First of all, we all have our personal touchpapers and one of mine is
    someone calling me a liar and then making up their own lies about me
    to justify their claim.

    Well that's what he does. Everybody can see it. Not everybody feeds it.

    The second, perhaps more important one, is that whilst like just about
    everybody here, I generally just ignore Ron's ranting about stuff like
    his "Top Six", when he misrepresents a paper or article as he has done
    here, I believe it needs to be rebuffed. If it is not rebuffed, there
    is a risk that his misrepresentation may be viewed as correct. Not
    overly important, perhaps, in the context of a dying Usenet but part
    of the problem with AI is that nobody really knows what sources it
    uses and, whilst it is unlikely that they include Usenet, there is
    every possibility of that in the future. Leaving Ron's
    misrepresentations unrebuffed creates a risk, however small, that they
    may become part of the increasing problem of GIGO with AI.

    That's kinda weak, IMO. I tried reading the available posts here when I
    first subscribed and immediately noticed the Emperor behaved the way he
    does, but decided to engage anyway. That was a mistake and I should
    have trusted my first instincts. Now, I delete his posts, leaving open
    the option to block all replies. That works fairly well as most people
    don't jump into his pile of shit. If you continue to feed him I suppose
    I might have to adjust what I do.

    The problem is that as well as ranting and posting absolute rubbish,
    Ron also posts some intelligent and useful/interesting stuff and
    responses to some of those posts suggest that at least some regulars
    here probably have a quick look at his posts to see if they are worth
    looking at more closely and just skip over the rants and nonsense.
    Regarding this particular post, I thought that if left unrebuffed,
    there was a real possibility of such posters taking at face value his
    total misrepresentation of how religious education in the UK is
    handled in general and the specific nature of this experiment.

    Myself, I took exception to his portrayal of Denisovans as cannibals.
    This was because in my lessons (from AI - I hope you can respect that to
    a minor degree at least) the sources ruled out cannibalism in Denisovans because this was not deemed the case in excavations, while on the other
    hand, there is evidence in pockets of cannibalism in the Neanderthal populations unearthed.

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