From Newsgroup: talk.origins

Down with "chemistry-in-a-bag" ideas (Jack Szostak, David Deamer, Pier
Luigi Luisi, et al).

"Therefore, life must have been launched by the operation of abiotic macromolecular machines driven by abiotic, but specifically "life-like", disequilibria, coopted from mineral precipitates that are chemically and physically active. Models grounded in "chemistry-in-a-bag" ideas,
however energized, should not be considered."

FRANKENSTEIN OR A SUBMARINE ALKALINE VENT: WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ABIOGENESIS?: PART 1: WHAT IS LIFE-THAT IT MIGHT CREATE ITSELF? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29870581/

The paper argues that many OOL models are fundamentally flawed because
they treat life as a simple assembly of molecules (rCLbuilding blocksrCY), rather than as a system-level process governed by thermodynamics and information flow, i.e. a conceptual critique and reframing of OOL research.

Traces (or even substantial quantities) of rCLbuilding blocksrCY in Miller's experiment, on meteorites, or in thermal springs etc are neither here
nor there. These are not even base camp. And Mt Assembly ahead has a
nasty exponential gradient. OOL researchers generally don't acknowledge
this, let alone begin to scale it.

______

"Whoa-hoh-oh, the gaps are gettin' bigger
Yeah-eah, mmm they're gettin' bigger"
(with apologies to Mental As Anything)

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From Newsgroup: talk.origins

On 2026/04/16 8:44 PM, MarkE wrote:

Down with "chemistry-in-a-bag" ideas (Jack Szostak, David Deamer, Pier Luigi Luisi, et al).

"Therefore, life must have been launched by the operation of abiotic macromolecular machines driven by abiotic, but specifically "life-like", disequilibria, coopted from mineral precipitates that are chemically and physically active. Models grounded in "chemistry-in-a-bag" ideas, however energized, should not be considered."

FRANKENSTEIN OR A SUBMARINE ALKALINE VENT: WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ABIOGENESIS?: PART 1: WHAT IS LIFE-THAT IT MIGHT CREATE ITSELF?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29870581/

The paper argues that many OOL models are fundamentally flawed because they treat life as a simple assembly of molecules (rCLbuilding blocksrCY), rather than as a system-level process governed by thermodynamics and information flow, i.e. a conceptual critique and reframing of OOL research.

Traces (or even substantial quantities) of rCLbuilding blocksrCY in Miller's experiment, on meteorites, or in thermal springs etc are neither here nor there. These are not even base camp. And Mt Assembly ahead has a nasty exponential gradient. OOL researchers generally don't acknowledge this, let alone begin to scale it.

______

"Whoa-hoh-oh, the gaps are gettin' bigger
Yeah-eah, mmm they're gettin' bigger"
(with apologies to Mental As Anything)

_Frankenstein or a Submarine Alkaline Vent: Who Is Responsible for Abiogenesis?: Part 1: What is life-that it might create itself?_

That is an assertion, not supported by evidence, with a "?" at the end of it.

Who created clouds?

David Ross answered what is responsible.
--
ShyDavid

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From Newsgroup: talk.origins

On 4/16/2026 9:44 PM, MarkE wrote:

Down with "chemistry-in-a-bag" ideas (Jack Szostak, David Deamer, Pier
Luigi Luisi, et al).

"Therefore, life must have been launched by the operation of abiotic macromolecular machines driven by abiotic, but specifically "life-like", disequilibria, coopted from mineral precipitates that are chemically and physically active. Models grounded in "chemistry-in-a-bag" ideas,
however energized, should not be considered."

FRANKENSTEIN OR A SUBMARINE ALKALINE VENT: WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ABIOGENESIS?: PART 1: WHAT IS LIFE-THAT IT MIGHT CREATE ITSELF? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29870581/

The paper argues that many OOL models are fundamentally flawed because
they treat life as a simple assembly of molecules (rCLbuilding blocksrCY), rather than as a system-level process governed by thermodynamics and information flow, i.e. a conceptual critique and reframing of OOL research.

Traces (or even substantial quantities) of rCLbuilding blocksrCY in Miller's experiment, on meteorites, or in thermal springs etc are neither here
nor there. These are not even base camp. And Mt Assembly ahead has a
nasty exponential gradient. OOL researchers generally don't acknowledge this, let alone begin to scale it.

______

"Whoa-hoh-oh, the gaps are gettin' bigger
Yeah-eah, mmm they're gettin' bigger"
(with apologies to Mental As Anything)

The denial is still stupid and dishonest when you don't want the gap
filled by anything. Lying to yourself about reality like this should be demeaning and self destructive. Look what you have degenerated into
doing. No matter how the gap is filled you lose. You are the only one
that can start to deal honestly with reality. The origin of life gap is
not the issue. Your literal Biblical beliefs that are inconsistent with reality are what you need to deal with. Reality is never going to
change. You demonstrated to yourself what reality is, and you could not
deal with it in an honest way.

Ron Okimoto

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From Newsgroup: talk.origins

On 2026/04/17 9:42 AM, RonO wrote:

On 4/16/2026 9:44 PM, MarkE wrote:

Down with "chemistry-in-a-bag" ideas (Jack Szostak, David Deamer, Pier Luigi Luisi, et al).

"Therefore, life must have been launched by the operation of abiotic macromolecular machines driven by abiotic, but specifically "life-like", disequilibria, coopted from mineral precipitates that are chemically and physically active. Models grounded in "chemistry-in-a-bag" ideas, however energized, should not be considered."

FRANKENSTEIN OR A SUBMARINE ALKALINE VENT: WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ABIOGENESIS?: PART 1: WHAT IS LIFE-THAT IT MIGHT CREATE ITSELF?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29870581/

The paper argues that many OOL models are fundamentally flawed because they treat life as a simple assembly of molecules (rCLbuilding blocksrCY), rather than as a system-level process governed by thermodynamics and information flow, i.e. a conceptual critique and reframing of OOL research.

Traces (or even substantial quantities) of rCLbuilding blocksrCY in Miller's experiment, on meteorites, or in thermal springs etc are neither here nor there. These are not even base camp. And Mt Assembly ahead has a nasty exponential gradient. OOL researchers generally don't acknowledge this, let alone begin to scale it.

______

"Whoa-hoh-oh, the gaps are gettin' bigger
Yeah-eah, mmm they're gettin' bigger"
(with apologies to Mental As Anything)

The denial is still stupid and dishonest when you don't want the gap filled by anything.-a Lying to yourself about reality like this should be demeaning and self destructive.-a Look what you have degenerated into doing.-a No matter how the gap is filled you lose. You are the only one that can start to deal honestly with reality.-a The origin of life gap is not the issue.-a Your literal Biblical beliefs that are inconsistent with reality are what you need to deal with.-a Reality is never going to change.-a You demonstrated to yourself what reality is, and you could not deal with it in an honest way.

Ron Okimoto

But you failed to answer the assertion! Er, I mean "question." *WHO* is responsible for life happening?

Who.

That's "who."

(Gods, Creationists are creepy.)
--
ShyDavid

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