From Newsgroup: talk.origins
On 4/15/2026 10:28 PM, MarkE wrote:
David Deamer (2022):
"Although it is generally a good idea to use pure reagents and
controlled conditions in the laboratory...This is a challenge to origins
of life research because few investigators have been bold enough to
perform such experiments in the field."
James Tour (2019):
"The protocols in use have remained unchanged: buy highly purified chemicals; mix them together in high concentrations and in a specific
order under carefully devised laboratory conditions; derive a mixture of compounds; and publish a paper making bold claims about OOL. These
protocols are as unrealistic as they are unimproved." https://inference-review.com/article/time-out
So, a leading OoL researcher is in close agreement with James Tour on a fundamental flaw in the field. Despite criticisms and dismissals, if
Tour is right about this, what else is he right about?
Who cares? What is being done is far superior to anything that Tour is
doing to support his creationist beliefs. Really, Tour is so far behind
the guys that he is claiming are not doing things right that it is a pathetically lame argument. Chemist use pure chemicals so that they can figure out what is happening. If they start with a mess all they get is
a mess that they can't interpret. All they want to do is figure out
what reactions can occur and when. There is no doubt that the reactions
would occur in a mixture, but they might not be the predominant reaction
under certain conditions, and it is difficult to figure out what is
going on if the products of the reactions that they want to observe are already in the mix of molecules that they are working on.
None of this matters because all you and Tour are doing is wallowing in
denial when you don't want to fill the gap with a designer or a natural process. You lose no matter how the gap is filled because you have
determined for yourself that the gap is not Biblical. You did that
building up your own denial stupidity. You understand that reality is
not Biblical, but wallowing in denial is your only way to cope.
Claiming that you do not have to deal with reality until the gap is
filled is just nuts.
_______
ORIGINS OF LIFE RESEARCH: THE CONUNDRUM BETWEEN LABORATORY AND FIELD SIMULATIONS OF MESSY ENVIRONMENTS
"Most experimental results that guide research related to the origin of
life are from laboratory simulations of the early Earth conditions. In
the laboratory, emphasis is placed on the purity of reagents and
carefully controlled conditions, so there is a natural tendency to
reject impurities and lack of control. However, life did not originate
in laboratory conditions; therefore, we should take into consideration multiple factors that are likely to have contributed to the
environmental complexity of the early Earth."
"It is worth keeping in mind that a living cell is the messiest
environment we can imagine, yet somehow, the biochemical reactions of metabolism proceed smoothly despite the incredible complexity of the cytoplasm. This is possible because enzymes catalyze specific reactions
that allow those reactions to follow metabolic pathways established by several billion years of evolution. A second reason is that biophysical forces arrange structures within cells to optimize those functions. A prominent example is the self-assembly of biological membranes involved
in electron transport and ATP synthesis. Although the kinds of lipids composing the membranes are under genetic control, the assembly process
is not."
"Another point is that the reaction of a pure, well-defined single
reactant can generate what most researchers would call messy products. A classic example is the formose reaction in which hundreds of compounds
are produced when formaldehyde (CHCO) reacts with itself in alkaline solutions. Another is the spontaneous polymerization of alpha hydroxy
acids [9]. For instance, glycolic acid exposed to drying at 80 -#C forms oligomers up to 12 subunits in length, with most between 3 to 6."
"Although it is generally a good idea to use pure reagents and
controlled conditions in the laboratory, it is also useful to realize
that if we limit ourselves to the laboratory, we might miss an important ingredient or physical process. Which laboratory simulations of
reactions related to the origin of life could be expected to proceed in prebiotic analogue conditions? This is a challenge to origins of life research because few investigators have been bold enough to perform such experiments in the field. The factors described hererCoconcentration, crystallization, self-assembly of monolayers and bilayers, adsorption, eutectic phases, stacking and base pairingrCocan all occur in prebiotic environments and have the potential to promote desired reactions even in messy, complex conditions. Some of them, either singly or in
combination, may provide significant clues to understand prebiotic
chemistry that are not obvious in laboratory simulations."
https://www.mdpi.com/2075-1729/12/9/1429
_______
"Whoa-hoh-oh, the gaps are gettin' bigger
-aYeah-eah, mmm they're gettin' bigger"
You probably are having some type of a nervous breakdown. You might
want to take a break and try to recover some semblance of sanity. You
can't deal with the ID scam in an honest fashion, and you want to keep believing the liars even when you know that they are scam artists that
have been lying to you for decades. You want to be lied to. You lived through what they have done, and remained willfully ignorant. Sticks
has the excuse that he is ignorant of what has gone on for decades, and
he just wants to remain willfully ignorant. You never had that excuse.
You watched it all happen. You ran from reality when ID died on TO and
the other IDiots quit the ID scam. You still want to lie to yourself
about the Top Six. You destroyed your own origin of life argument, and
picked yourself up and kept lying to yourself about it.
You need to do some self reflection and deal with the dishonesty that
has ruled your life for decades. It is your religious beliefs that you
are lying about. Shouldn't that wake you up? The origin of life gap is
not Biblical because nature is not Biblical. Nothing that you will find
out about nature will change that fact because you understand that the
gaps do not support your Biblical beliefs. What is known around the
gaps has already demonstrated that those Biblical beliefs are wrong and
need to be modified. Why aren't you and Sticks flat earth, geocentric creationists? Do either of you still believe that the Biblical
firmament exists that needs to be opened up by some god to let the rain
fall through? Why not? Why should you deny that life has evolved on
this planet for billions of years, and that life originated on this
planet over 3 billion years ago? Why do the YEC want to remove the Big
Bang from public school science standards?
You are literally worse than the YEC and flat earth creationists in
terms of willful ignorance and denial. They want to believe that it is
all a hoax, but you know that it isn't a hoax, and you still want to
wallow in the denial. You and all the other IDiots came to understand
that it was the ID perps that were scamming you. Nature is not
Biblical. No intelligent design or creation science will ever change
the fact that nature is not the creation described in the Bible. The ID
perps have always lied about the "Big Tent" of creationist beliefs that
ID can support. Science is just the study of nature, and there is only
one nature for the ID perps to be claiming to study, and it is not
Biblical. None of the literalist Biblical claims can be supported by
science. Only the metaphorical interpretation that some god is the
ultimate creator can be salvaged at this time. You and Sticks can't
face that reality, and you let the ID perps prey on your religious
beliefs in order to further their political goals. Your religious
beliefs do not matter to them. They believe that they need rubes like
you to rebuild some type of theocracy that likely has never existed in
this country. You have just been cannon fodder. How many times have
you witnessed the bait and switch go down on hapless creationist rubes.
Using ID as bait has been the ID perp's only way forward to support
their Wedge goals for over 2 decades.
Ron Okimoto
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