• =?UTF-8?B?V2h5IEFyZW7igJl0IHRoZSBBcmFicyB0aGUg4oCYQ29sb25pemVycw==?= =?UTF-8?B?4oCZPw==?=

    From a425couple@a425couple@hotmail.com to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,soc.history.war.misc,soc.history.medieval on Tue Oct 31 11:22:32 2023
    From Newsgroup: soc.history.medieval

    Why ArenrCOt the Arabs the rCyColonizersrCO?

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/10/why-arent-the-arabs-the-colonizers/

    By RICH LOWRY
    October 29, 2023 6:30 AM
    523 Comments
    Listen

    A history of conquest and cultural imperialism is ignored.

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    The Al-Aqsa Mosque compound in the Old City of Jerusalem sits atop the
    site of the Second Temple, the central place for Jewish worship before
    its destruction during the Roman siege of Jerusalem in 70 C.E.

    One wonders if any of the people braying about the alleged rCLsettler colonialismrCY of Israel ever wonder how Al-Aqsa got there.

    Did the Jews voluntarily erect a version of it in an eighth-century
    homage to multiculturalism? If not, how did the Muslims who built it
    come to be in Jerusalem in the first place?

    These are rhetorical questions, of course. The caliphate besieged
    Jerusalem and took it from the Byzantines in the early seventh century.

    Since the rCLdecolonizationrCY agenda is meant only to target Western
    nations and peoples, you rarely hear of the conquests and
    empire-building of the non-Western world, which is conveniently
    forgotten behind a narrative of pervasive victimization.

    All of human history is a story of never-ending layers of conquest and
    defeat and of migration and exile. If it were to be undone, werCOd need to extirpate almost all peoples everywhere, including those who are
    currently portrayed as the hopelessly oppressed.

    The earliest phase of the seventh-century Arab expansion was truly
    explosive, and then it continued at a slower but still impressive clip.

    Indeed, it is one of the most sweeping acts of conquest and successful exercises in colonialism in world history. This wasnrCOt the Mongols
    driving all before them and then receding to leave little in their
    trace, or the Normans getting absorbed into the England they conquered.
    No, the Arabs followed up their military conquest with a cultural
    imperialism still felt today.

    The Arabs would gobble up Syria, Palestine, Egypt, and Mesopotamia. They chipped away at the Byzantine Empire and launched a no-kidding effort to conquer it wholesale that fell short after two epic sieges of
    Constantinople. They basically took all of the Persian empire.
    Eventually, they assembled an empire with the greatest territorial
    extent since the Romans, encompassing 80 percent of the population of
    the Middle East and North Africa and reaching to the south of France.

    Dan Jones writes in his history of the Middle Ages, Powers and Thrones, rCLSyria was one of the first major triumphs of a new power that was about
    to sweep across the world, branching out to the borders of China and the Atlantic seaboard of Europe, establishing an Islamic state that covered
    more than twelve million square kilometers.rCY

    Its armies rCLappeared everywhere from central Asia, through the Middle
    East and north Africa, throughout the Visigothic Iberian Peninsula, and
    even into southern France.rCY Everywhere they conquered, they put in place rCLIslamic governments and introduced new ways of living, trading,
    learning, thinking, building, and praying.rCY

    And of speaking and writing. The caliph Abd al-Malik imposed Arabic as
    the official language of the empire, an act of the highest cultural significance, since Arabic and Islam were so intertwined. rCLArabization,rCY Jones writes, rCLwas gradually followed by conversion across the Muslim-
    held territoriesrCoa shift that can still be seen, felt, and heard in
    almost every part of the old caliphate in the twenty-first century.rCY

    Once they had Islam foisted on them, these territories, by and large,
    never went back, except in the cases of Spain, Portugal, and Sicily.

    In the Levant, in particular, as the archaeologist and historian Alex
    Joffe writes, there was an imperial project that included bringing in
    new people. Settlers came of their own volition or were moved there by political authorities, Joffe notes, including Egyptians in the early
    19th century and Chechens, Circassians, and Turkmen at the hands of the Ottomans later in the century.

    A Hamas official once said, rCLHalf of the Palestinians are Egyptians and
    the other half are Saudis.rCY

    Should all this shuffling of population be reversed? Should the land
    conquered by the Arabs so long ago go back to the Byzantines or
    Persians, or their legatees? What do Ben and Jerry think?

    Obviously, the decolonizers donrCOt care about any of this, or the fate of
    the Kurds, Assyrians, and Amazighs, peoples who have suffered more
    recently from the Arabization of the broader region.

    What they really favor is another act of Arab colonization to eliminate
    the Jewish people, who must succumb, finally and completely, to the long
    tide of Islamization and Arabization rCLfrom the river to the sea.rCY This isnrCOt a principled adherence to the rights of indigenous people or a
    respect for ancient homelands, but LeninrCOs notorious formulation, rCLwho whom,rCY in a different context.

    The work begun in the seventh century, in other words, is still incomplete.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Keith Willshaw@keithwillshaw@gmail.com to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,soc.history.war.misc,soc.history.medieval on Wed Nov 1 20:04:24 2023
    From Newsgroup: soc.history.medieval

    On 31/10/2023 18:22, a425couple wrote:
    Why ArenrCOt the Arabs the rCyColonizersrCO?

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/10/why-arent-the-arabs-the-colonizers/

    By RICH LOWRY
    October 29, 2023 6:30 AM
    523 Comments
    Listen

    A history of conquest and cultural imperialism is ignored.


    Historically they were. Colonisers come and go. Egyptians, Romans, North Africans, the Arabs, Turks, English and French all took their turns.
    When General Allenby entered Jerusalem in 1917 he was displacing the
    Ottoman Turks. In 1940 there was already a substantial jewish group in
    Haifa.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Surreyman@alanspencer3@googlemail.com to soc.history.medieval on Thu Nov 2 01:37:15 2023
    From Newsgroup: soc.history.medieval

    On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 8:04:29rC>PM UTC, Keith Willshaw wrote:
    On 31/10/2023 18:22, a425couple wrote:
    Why ArenrCOt the Arabs the rCyColonizersrCO?

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/10/why-arent-the-arabs-the-colonizers/

    By RICH LOWRY
    October 29, 2023 6:30 AM
    523 Comments
    Listen

    A history of conquest and cultural imperialism is ignored.

    Historically they were. Colonisers come and go. Egyptians, Romans, North Africans, the Arabs, Turks, English and French all took their turns.
    When General Allenby entered Jerusalem in 1917 he was displacing the
    Ottoman Turks. In 1940 there was already a substantial jewish group in Haifa.
    Lies, damn lies and statistics.
    The Jewish population of Palestine did not rise above 10% until 1931.
    This does not reflect my opinion on all this one way or t'other, but don't let's misuse facts.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Horny Goat@lcraver@home.ca to soc.history.medieval on Thu Nov 2 17:23:56 2023
    From Newsgroup: soc.history.medieval

    On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 11:22:32 -0700, a425couple
    <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote:

    The work begun in the seventh century, in other words, is still incomplete.

    Heh heh - the catch of course is where one judges the baseline date to
    be - 7th century AD? 10th century BC? (when the first Jewish temple
    was built in Jerusalem), 2nd century BC (the Maccabean temple defaced
    by Antiochus Epiphanes), 1st century BC (the Herodian temple destroyed
    in 70 AD).

    How about 1918 (when the Brits captured Jerusalem) or 1948 or 1967?

    My point of course is that depending on which date you choose somebody
    is going to be enthralled, somebody else is going to be offended.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Horny Goat@lcraver@home.ca to soc.history.medieval on Thu Nov 2 17:24:44 2023
    From Newsgroup: soc.history.medieval

    On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 20:04:24 +0000, Keith Willshaw
    <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:

    Historically they were. Colonisers come and go. Egyptians, Romans, North >Africans, the Arabs, Turks, English and French all took their turns.
    When General Allenby entered Jerusalem in 1917 he was displacing the
    Ottoman Turks. In 1940 there was already a substantial jewish group in >Haifa.

    Heck in the time of Muhammed there were lots of Jews in Mecca and
    quite a few Arabs in Jerusalem....
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ed Stasiak@edstasiak1067@gmail.com to soc.history.medieval on Fri Nov 3 08:44:05 2023
    From Newsgroup: soc.history.medieval

    The Horny Goat
    Keith Willshaw

    Historically they were. Colonisers come and go. Egyptians, Romans, North >Africans, the Arabs, Turks, English and French all took their turns.
    When General Allenby entered Jerusalem in 1917 he was displacing the >Ottoman Turks. In 1940 there was already a substantial jewish group in >Haifa.

    Heck in the time of Muhammed there were lots of Jews in Mecca and
    quite a few Arabs in Jerusalem....

    There's a theory that Islam was founded by heretical Jews from Yemen,
    which is why Jerusalem was the original Muslim direction of prayer
    (nowadays, it's towards Mecca).
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From a425couple@a425couple@hotmail.com to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,soc.history.war.misc,soc.history.medieval on Sat Nov 4 10:07:15 2023
    From Newsgroup: soc.history.medieval

    On 11/1/23 13:04, Keith Willshaw wrote:
    On 31/10/2023 18:22, a425couple wrote:
    Why ArenrCOt the Arabs the rCyColonizersrCO?

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/10/why-arent-the-arabs-the-colonizers/ >>
    By RICH LOWRY
    October 29, 2023 6:30 AM
    523 Comments
    Listen

    A history of conquest and cultural imperialism is ignored.


    Historically they were. Colonisers come and go. Egyptians, Romans, North Africans, the Arabs, Turks, English and French all took their turns.
    When General Allenby entered Jerusalem in 1917 he was displacing the
    Ottoman Turks. In 1940 there was already a substantial jewish group in Haifa.

    I agree with you.
    But there is one poster on soc.history.medieval that is very
    antisemitic. Also a couple that do not fully agree with you
    Keith.

    I know that last year I talked to a couple of Palestinians
    who felt their lives were fine, and getting better (with end of
    Covid restrictions). They most wish their 'rulers' would
    quit causing problems and violence, that just kept them
    in power.


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2