Early Blount genealogy
From
Stewart Baldwin@sbaldw@mindspring.com to
soc.genealogy.medieval on Thu Jan 23 15:15:40 2025
From Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval
As I indicated in my recent posting on the Victoria County History of Worcestershire, the genealogy of the Blount family (ancestors of the
lords of Mountjoy and the Blounts of Sodington, among other branches)
has been badly butchered on numerous occasions, and the pedigrees of the family already had several mutually inconsistent versions by the time of
the first visitations. Many additional errors were introduced in the
longest (to my knowledge) account of the family, Alexander Croke, The Genealogical History of the Croke Family originally named Le Blount (2
vols., Oxford, 1823), which made the Blounts descendants the early
counts of Gu|<nes in the direct male line. While the genealogy part is a strange mix of fact and fiction, this source is actually quite useful
for the appendices abstracting many early Blount deeds, many of which
directly contradict the author's genealogical accounts, but seem to be consistent with the contemporary evidence found elsewhere. Most of my confusion about the family's genealogy from the late 1200's on was
cleared up by combing through these abstracted deeds, while ignoring
anything from the genealogical part that I couldn't verify in better
records. Errors there were frequently followed by later accounts,
leading to the mess we have today. The best account I have seen of the
branch leading to the lords of Mountjoy is in The Complete Peerage [CP]
9: 329-334 (mostly by Ethel Stokes), but hardly any information is given
on the other branches (among other minor quibbles mentioned below).
Volume 2 of CP also contains two other short Blount accounts, one
reasonably good one by G. W. Watson, covering only an elder son of the
line followed by Stokes through a younger brother (with the most serious problems corrected later by Stokes) [CP 2: 196], and a terrible account
of the Blounts of Belton and Hampton Lovett, which gave a false account including a Thomas le Blount, his alleged son William le Blount (#2
below, in fact son of William and Isabel le Blount), his son John (#4
below), and his alleged son, another Thomas le Blount (in fact unrelated). Below is a very brief outline of the early Blounts as I have placed
them, along with the CP theory and my own theory regarding the descent
of William le Blund (d. 1280), the earliest (to my knowledge) solidly documented ancestor of this Blount family. I have a documented version written up (about a dozen pages in a currently very disorganized 350+
page manuscript I have been working on), but including documentation
here would make it too long, and the simpler the spacing, the less
likely that the various servers will butcher it until it is
unintelligible. I will discuss documentation on any specific items with
which someone has an issue. Since some e-mails get their spacing
butchered by the servers passing them on, often by eliminating repeated spaces, the symbol "-i" below should be interpreted in the genealogical outline below as an ordinary space.
BLOUNT OF SODINGTON, etc.
1. William le Blund or le Blount, died around April 1280, parentage uncertain, see below for different theories about his parentage. He
held the manor of Belton, co. Rutland, and 1/4 of a knight's fee in
Hanslope, co. Bucks. He married Isabel, living February 1322/3, widow
of Henry Lovet of Elmley Lovett and Hampton Lovett, co. Worcester, who
had died about 1256. She has been conjectured to be a Beauchamp, but I
do not know of any proof. She eventually passed on the manors of
Hampton Lovet and Tymberlake in Worcestershire to her descendants.
William le Blund and his brother Walter first appear in 1265, and a 1271
fine shows William exchanging land in Rutlandshire to Walter le Blund (presumably his previously mentioned brother) for land in Buckinghamshire. Children of William and Isabel:
-i -i -i i. Peter le Blount, eldest son and heir, b. say 1258, d.s.p.
1320, became rector of Hanslope in 1296, but lost the position around
1298 because he had not been ordained as a priest. He held the manor
and advowson of Hampton Lovett and the manor of Tymberlake in
Worcestershire and 1/4 knight's fee in Hanslope in Buckinghamshire.
2-i -i -iii. William le Blount, m. _____, apparently received Belton as his part, and inherited Hampton Lovett and the Hanslope share after the
death of his brother Peter (so he was probably older than Walter).
3-i -i iii. Walter le Blount, m. Joan de Sodington, apparently received Tymberlake from his brothers as his share.
Presumed relative, apparently in this generation:
-i -i -iiv. Ralph le Blund/Blount, rector of Hampton Lovett, instituted
on 20 March 1306 at the presentation of Peter le Blund. Ralph resigned
as rector before 22 February 1328.
2. William le Blount (son of 1. William), of Belton, co. Rutland,
living 1340, probably died before 1346, name of wife unknown. He was a
member of parliament from Rutlandshire in 1301, 1307, and 1313. He
inherited Hampton Lovett (with its advowson) and the 1/4 knight's fee in Hanslope at the death of his brother Peter.
Child of William le Blount:
4-i -i -i i. John le Blount, m. Elizabeth de Fourneaux.
3. Walter le Blount (son of 1. William), living 1322, m. (probably as
his only wife) Joan de Sodington, living 1331, daughter of Richard [NOT
Ralph] de Sodington, and coheiress with her two sisters Martha (wife of Reginal le Porter) and Eustache (wife of William Fitz Ralph of
Doverdale) of their brother William de Sodington (who had been heir of
his brother [not father] Ralph de Sodington). In addition to
Tymberlake, inherited from his mother, Walter's wife Joan was coheiress
to the manors of Eastham (with its advowson) and Sodington (in the
parish of Mamble), and probably also the mesne overlordship of the manor
of Doverdale, then apparently held in moieties by the subtenants William
Fitz Ralph de Doverdale (d. 1333 or 1334, husband of Eustache) and
William le Blund (or le Wyte) de Doverdale (relationship, if any,
unknown, d. ca. 1303, not to be confused with Joan's brother William de Sodington, who also d. ca. 1303). The lands of the three coheiresses
were shared in a confusing way during the following century or so, but
the Blount's share was eventually the manor of Sodington and the
overlordship of Doverdale. Walter's descendants also eventually
iherited the share of his brother William when William's line became
extinct with his granddaughter Alice Stury in 1414.
Children of Walter le Blount and Joan de Sodington:
-i -i -i i. William Blount, d. 1337, m. Margery de Verdon. [CP 2: 196]
5-i -i -iii. Sir John Blount, b. ca. 1307 (aged 30 in 1337), m. Isolde.
-i -i iii. Walter Blount, living 16 Edward II [1322-3].
4. John le Blount (son of 3. William), sometimes confused with his
cousin Sir John Blount (#4), living 1346, married Elizabeth de
Fourneaux, daughter and sole heiress of Sir Simon de Fourneaux by his
wife Alice, daughter and coheiress of Sir Henry de Umfraville. She was
still living in 1393. If he had another marriage, I have not seen
evidence for it.
Children of John and Elizabeth (Fourneaux) Blount:
-i -i -i i. William Blount, apparently died young (before 1374) after succeeding briefly to his father estates.
-i -i -iii. Alice Blount, d.s.p. 4 November 1414, m. (1) Richard
Stafford, m. (2) Richard Stury. Her heir was John Blount of Sodington, knight.
5. Sir John Blount (son of 3. Walter), born about 1307 (aged 30 in
his brother's Inquisition post mortem in 1337), died 5 March 1358,
married, probably as his only wife, Isolde, theorized to be a Mountjoy,
but proof is lacking. If he had another marriage, I have not seen
evidence for it.
Children of John and Isolde Blount:
-i -i -i i. Richard Blount, eldest son and heir to his father, b. ca.
1345 [calc.], d.s.p. between January 1371 and 49 Edward III [1375-6].
-i -i -iii. John Blount, b. say 1347, d. 1425, m. (1) Juliana _____, m.
(2) Isabella Cornwall. He had two sons named John, one by each wife.
His son John by Juliana was a John Blount who died before his father, m. Isabella Foulhurst, and had a son John Blount, ancestor of the Blounts
of Sodington. Juliana's maiden name is often given as Foulhurst, but I
have seen no proof of this, and it may be and error due to confusion
with Juliana's daughter-in-law. John Blount and Isabella Cornwall also
had a son named John, ancestor of the Blounts of Kinlet.
-i -i iii. Walter Blount, b. say 1349, m. Sancha de Ayala. They were ancestors of the Lords Mountjoy, among other branches.
-i -i -iiv. Thomas Blount, living ca. 1358.
Earlier Ancestry
The parentage of William le Blund/Blount (#1 above) is uncertain. Most
of the visitations make him the son of another William Blount, and Croke
makes him a son of a Robert Blount. I have found no evidence favoring
either of these interpretations. The account by Ethel Stokes in CP
identifies William (#1) with William son of John son of Walter le Blund mentioned in a case in the 1275 Eyre. If true, the descent would go as follows:
Walter le Blund, died before 1275.
Children of Walter le Blund, all by the same (unknown) wife, all
mentioned in the 1275 Eyre case:
+-i -i -i i. John le Blund.
-i -i -iii. Avice la Blund de Doverdale, d. bef. 1275, m. Ranulph.
-i -i iii. Agnes, sister of Avice.
John le Blund (son of Walter). He was apparently deceased in 1275, when
his son William was involved in an assize concerning lands in Doverdale.
Child of John le Blund:
+-i -i -i i. William le Blund, living 1275.
William le Blund (son of John), living 1275, when he obtained possession
of lands in Doverdale which had belonged to his aunt Avice.1 He is not
known from any other records, unless he was the same man as William le
Blund #1 above.
My own suggestion.
The account in CP is basically no more than a same-name identification,
and I am skeptical, since these Blund's may have been a cadet line of
the Blunds who held a moiety of the manor of Doverdale in the 1200's,
and I see no evidence to show a Worcestershire connection for William #1
prior to the time he married Isabel. There is another individual to
whom William #1 seems more closely linked, due to the fact that he held
1/4 knight's fee in Hanslope in Buckinghamshire.
Peter le Blund (Peter Albus, Peter Blundus), is first seen as a witness
of a grant by Egeline de Courtenay, widow of Gilbert Bassett, to
Bicester priory in 1205|u6. In 1206|u16, he was a witness to a grant in
alms by Richard de Camvill and his wife Eustache (Bassett), and in
1211|u6, he and his son Thomas were witnesses to a grant by Richard de Camville and Eustache to Bicester priory. This information appears in
the Bassett charters, which give Peter two sons.
Children of Peter le Blund:
-i -i -i i. Thomas le Blund, first seen as a witness along with his
father in 1211|u6. He was a witness to several other charters for the Bassetts in the period 1230|u41.4 Thomas le Blund was with Earl Marshal
at Wychombe, and on 15 August 1233, the sheriff of Wiltshire was ordered
to committ the land of Thomas Blund in Sheepbridge (now in Berkshire) to Bartholomew Bigod.5
+-i -i -iii. Peter le Blund.
Peter Blundus or le Blund (son of Peter Peter), was with William
Marshall (the younger), second earl of Pembroke, when he was campaigning
in Brittany with Henry III in 1230. He was at Wycombe with William's
brother and successor Richard Marshall when the latter was in rebellion,
as a result of which Peter's lands in Hampshire were committed to
Richard de Gray, and his lands in Hanslope in Buckinghamshire were
committed to his overlord William Maudit, on 15 August 1233. By 30 May
18 Henry III [1234], Peter Blundus had made peace with the king, and his
lands in Buckinghamshire were returned to him. Between 1233 and 1241,
the brothers Thomas Blundus and Peter Blundus were witnesses to a grant
from Gilbert Bassett to his brother Philip Bassett. Peter le Blund was
still alive in 27 Henry III [1242-3], when he was holding a quarter of
one knight's fee in Hanslope of William Maudit, who held it from the king. Apparent heir (son??):
-i -i -i i. William le Blund (#1 above).
My conjecture is clearly based on the quarter of a knight's fee in
Hanslope which both Peter and then William held, along with their common surname. I have no direct evidence that Peter was William's father.
Are there any problems with the basic outline of the family given above?
Is there any detailed study in the literature regarding William's parents?
Stewart Baldwin
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From
Stewart Baldwin@sbaldw@mindspring.com to
soc.genealogy.medieval on Sun Feb 2 10:36:14 2025
From Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval
On 1/28/2025 4:02 PM, Roderick Ward wrote:
I have a question about the construction. You note that Joan de
Sodington was the daughter of Richard [NOT Ralph] de Sodington. Volume 1
of Collectanea Topographica et Genealogica (1834) contains an abstract
of an Elizabethan transcription of plea rolls purporting to show that William, Martha, Eustache, and Joan were children of Ralph-a [Link: https://archive.org/details/collectaneatopog01londuoft/page/146/
mode/1up ]. Was some kind of error made here?
The abstract is in error. The abstract refers to an assize taken at Southampton, on Friday next after Michaelmas, 31 Edward I [4 October
1303], in order to decide whether John Fitz Reginald and John Le Taillur disseised Richard son of Reginald Le Porter, William de Doverdale and Eustachia his wife, and Walter Le Blunt and Joan his wife, of their free tenement in Tadley [TNA, JUST 1/1329, m. 10 (AALT image 1508).]. The
assize states that John Fitz Reginald conveyed all of his land with appurtenances in the villa of Tadley to Ralph de Sodinton', rendering
one pair of golden spurs annually for all services, quoting an undated
charter to that effect. It also states that Ralph died seised of the aforesaid tenements, after which his brother and heir William de
Sudington' (two different spellings in the same record) was seised of
the same lands in his demesne as of fee, holding them for twelve years
before his death, when his coheirs were his three sisters Eustachia
(wife of William de Doverdale), Joan (wife of Walter Le Blunt), and
Martha (mother of Richard Le Porter). The brief abstract of this record appearing in Collectanea Topographica et Genealogica 1 (1834): p. 146,
is erroneous in making William and his sisters children of Ralph, as the original record clearly states that they were siblings. This error was already corrected in the account of the Blount family appearing under
Mountjoy in CP 9: 331, correctly stating that William had been brother
and heir of Ralph, citing the original record rather than the erroneous abstract. There was an earlier Ralph de Sodington, coroner for Worcestershire, who died in or shortly before 1258, and the younger
Ralph (then underage) was his eventual heir at the time of the 1275 Eyre
of Worcestershire. As also noted in my recent posting on VCH, the
Victoria County History of Worcestershire misreads the record as stating
that the younger Ralph was the son of the older Ralph (whose death was misdated ca. 1274), adding further confusion.
I first found proof that Richard de Sodington (most likely a son or
younger brother of the elder Ralph de Sodington) was father of the
younger Ralph, William, and their sisters in abstracts from the Patent
Rolls, 8 Edward I [1280], in The Forty-Ninth Annual Report of the Deputy Keeper of the Public Records, Appendix I, 158, later verified from the original record at AALT, in which R[obert] Fulks and Giles de Berkeley
were appointed to take an assise of mort d'ancestor which Ralph, son of Richard de Sodyngton, arraigned against Roger de Mortimer Sr.,
concerning two parts of the manor of Sudington with appurtenances. In
my numerous page-by-page searches of early Assize and Common Pleas
records, I have found independent confirmation of this parentage.
Stewart Baldwin
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