DISCREPANCY
I have a discrepancy in a line that I am requesting assistance on
resolving. I am trying to determine whether or not Margery / Margaret Harington the wife of Richard Braddyll is the daughter of Margaret de
Neville and William Harington, K.G.
MY GUT FEELING
I believe that Margaret / Margery Harington Wife of Richard Braddyll or Bradhull is the daughter of Margaret Neville and Sir William Harington as asserted in the 2022 Edition of Descents of 900 Immigrants, the Visitation
of 1567 and Canon Raines's Lane. MSS. Vol. XIII. pp. 117-124.
IrCOm hoping that Douglas Richardson weighs in as the only thing that gave me pause was that she wasnrCOt listed as a daughter in Royal Ancestry Volume III, 2011 Edition, P.319-321, #15 Margaret Neville and William Harrington, K.G.
CITATIONS
Sir William Harington, KG, of Hornby is identified as the husband of
Margaret Neville on an original pedigree. University of Oxford, Bodleian Library MS. Ashmole 804, pt. I. Retrieved from: https://digital.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/objects/77f9525e-c3b8-4765-815c-0fc632c10d70/
on 3 May 2024.
The Visitation of 1567 clearly states Richard Bradhull=Margery, dau. of William Harrington of Brockhole, ar. of Hornby, co. Lancaster, ar.
WhitakerrCOs History of the Parish Whalley contains a pedigree that states: Johanna, 2nd dau. of rCarCa..= Richard Bradhull vix temp Edw IV = Margaret, dau. of Sir William Harrington, of Hornby, K.G. s.p. This enhanced pedigree further solidifies the person being identified. The enhancement is
identified as PEDIGREE OF BRADDYLL. (With additions from Flower's
Visitation of Lancashire 1567 and Canon Raines's Lane. MSS. Vol. XIII. pp. 117-124.)
Whitaker, Thomas Dunham. An history of the original Parish of Whalley, and honor of Clitheroe, to which is subjoined an account of the Parish of Cartmell. 4th ed., Book IV, Chapter 1, Page 3
Retrieved from: https://archive.org/details/historyoforigina02whit/page/n33/mode/2up on 5
May 2024
Roberts, Gary Boyd. The Royal Descents of 900 Immigrants Volume II, 2022 Edition, Pages 841-842 , Peter George Talbot line.
12. Robert de Neville = Margaret de la Pole
13. Margaret de Neville = Sir William Harington
14. Margaret Harington = Richard Braddyll
15. John Braddyll = Emote Pollard
Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry Volume III, 2011 Edition, P.319-321,
#15 Margaret Neville and William Harrington, K.G.
Sons listed Robert, Thomas and John
Daughters listed Isabel, Ellen and Agnes
Missing is Margaret Harington wife of Richard Braddyll
Flower, William Esq. The Visitation of the County Palatine Lancaster in the Year 1567. Bradhull of Brockhole, Page 27. Retrieved from: https://archive.org/details/remainshistorica81chetuoft/page/n51/mode/1up?q=Bradyll
on 05 May 2024
Michael Pitzer <mpitzer01@pm.me> wrote:
DISCREPANCY
I have a discrepancy in a line that I am requesting assistance on
resolving. I am trying to determine whether or not Margery / Margaret
Harington the wife of Richard Braddyll is the daughter of Margaret de
Neville and William Harington, K.G.
MY GUT FEELING
I believe that Margaret / Margery Harington Wife of Richard Braddyll or
Bradhull is the daughter of Margaret Neville and Sir William Harington as
asserted in the 2022 Edition of Descents of 900 Immigrants, the Visitation >> of 1567 and Canon Raines's Lane. MSS. Vol. XIII. pp. 117-124.
IrCOm hoping that Douglas Richardson weighs in as the only thing that gave me
pause was that she wasnrCOt listed as a daughter in Royal Ancestry Volume
III, 2011 Edition, P.319-321, #15 Margaret Neville and William Harrington, >> K.G.
CITATIONS
Sir William Harington, KG, of Hornby is identified as the husband of
Margaret Neville on an original pedigree. University of Oxford, Bodleian
Library MS. Ashmole 804, pt. I. Retrieved from:
https://digital.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/objects/77f9525e-c3b8-4765-815c-0fc632c10d70/
on 3 May 2024.
The Visitation of 1567 clearly states Richard Bradhull=Margery, dau. of
William Harrington of Brockhole, ar. of Hornby, co. Lancaster, ar.
WhitakerrCOs History of the Parish Whalley contains a pedigree that states: >> Johanna, 2nd dau. of rCarCa..= Richard Bradhull vix temp Edw IV = Margaret, >> dau. of Sir William Harrington, of Hornby, K.G. s.p. This enhanced pedigree >> further solidifies the person being identified. The enhancement is
identified as PEDIGREE OF BRADDYLL. (With additions from Flower's
Visitation of Lancashire 1567 and Canon Raines's Lane. MSS. Vol. XIII. pp. >> 117-124.)
Whitaker, Thomas Dunham. An history of the original Parish of Whalley, and >> honor of Clitheroe, to which is subjoined an account of the Parish of
Cartmell. 4th ed., Book IV, Chapter 1, Page 3
Retrieved from:
https://archive.org/details/historyoforigina02whit/page/n33/mode/2up on 5
May 2024
Roberts, Gary Boyd. The Royal Descents of 900 Immigrants Volume II, 2022
Edition, Pages 841-842 , Peter George Talbot line.
12. Robert de Neville = Margaret de la Pole
13. Margaret de Neville = Sir William Harington
14. Margaret Harington = Richard Braddyll
15. John Braddyll = Emote Pollard
Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry Volume III, 2011 Edition, P.319-321,
#15 Margaret Neville and William Harrington, K.G.
Sons listed Robert, Thomas and John
Daughters listed Isabel, Ellen and Agnes
Missing is Margaret Harington wife of Richard Braddyll
Flower, William Esq. The Visitation of the County Palatine Lancaster in the >> Year 1567. Bradhull of Brockhole, Page 27. Retrieved from:
https://archive.org/details/remainshistorica81chetuoft/page/n51/mode/1up?q=Bradyll
on 05 May 2024
I think PeterrCOs reply further strengthened the argument. His postrCa.
There is a stained-glass window in the Braddyll chapel at Ulverston showing "Sable a fret Argent a label of three points Gules (Harington); on an inescutcheon of pretence, Argent a saltire Gules (Nevile, of Hornby); all within a garter of the Order of the Knights of the Garter", see R.S. Boumphrey, The Braddyll heraldry at Conishead priory and in the Braddyll chapel in St. Mary's church, Ulverston, p. 156 no. 115, downloadable here: https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives/view/cumberland/contents.cfm?vol_id=721
Peter Stewart
The footnotes in the Braddyll Heraldry he linked above stated:
118. Richard Braddyll married Margery, daughter of Sir William Harington,
KG LM (iii 210). That really only leaves a question about whether or not
this is the same William that married Margaret Neville.
115.Sir William Harington, K.G., of Farleton (died 1440), married Margaret, daughter and eventually heir of Sir Robert Neville, of Hornby (died 1413) (Grimble 29).
The same document also names Margaret NevillerCOs spouse as of Farleton. Hornby wasnrCOt inherited by Margaret until later. The William Harington 5th Baron of Aldingham married Margaret Hill.
Douglas Richardson
Dec 17, 2015, 6:02:56rC>PM
to
Dear Kevan ~
Terry is correct that Sir William Harington, of Hornby, Lancashire did not die in 1415 as you suppose, but died in 1440. He is thought to be the Sir William Harington who was a standard bearer at the Battle of Agincourt in 1415.
However, his cousin, Sir William Harington (died 1458), of Aldingham, Lancashire, is known to have crossed to France in 1415 in the train of the Duke of Gloucester, and it is thought that he probably took part in the Battle of Agincourt.
As such, it is possible that both men were at the Battle of Agincourt. If there was only one Sir William Harington at Agincourt, my guess would be
that it was the Aldingham man, as he was quite active in military service
in France after 1415.
I've copied below my current file accounts of both men. The accounts below are slightly amended from the accounts of these men found in my book, Royal Ancestry, published in 2013.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + +
15. MARGARET NEVILLE, married before 17 April 1401 (date of fine) WILLIAM HARINGTON, K.G., of Farleton (in Melling), Aighton (in Mitton), Bolton-le-Moors, Chorley, Ellel, and Over Kellet, Lancashire, and Farleton
in Kendale, Westmorland, Sheriff of Yorkshire, 1408-9, 1413-14, 1422-3, 1428-30, and, in right of his wife, of Hornby, Lancashire, son and heir of Nicholas Harington (or Haverington), Knt., of Farleton (in Melling), Bolton-le-Moors, Heath Charnock, Aighton, Lancashire, Farleton in Kendale, Westmorland, Knight of the Shire for Lancashire, Sheriff of Lancashire, 1381-4, by Isabel, daughter and heiress of William English, Knt., of
Appleby, Little Strickland, and Hasket, Westmorland. They had three sons, Robert, Knt., Thomas, Knt., and John, Esq., and three daughters, Ellen, Isabel, and Agnes. In 1401 her parents settled the reversion of the manor
of Brearley (in Halifax), Yorkshire on Margaret and her male heirs. He was
a standard bearer at the Battle of Agincourt in 1415. He was one of the executors in 1417 will of his brother, James Harington, Knt. In 1420 he presented to the church of Badsworth, Yorkshire. In 1423 he was granted an annuity of -u100 by Queen Katherine of France, widow of King Henry V of France. His wife, Margaret, was co-heiress in 1424 to her niece, Margaret Neville, wife of Thomas Beaufort, Duke of Exeter, by which she inherited Hornby Castle, Lancashire, and the manors of Aintree, Lancashire and
Brearley (in Halifax), Yorkshire. In 1426 he and Henry Marchall, clerk,
were summoned to reply to Robert Willoughby, Knt., of Rerisby, and two
others in a plea that they should permit them to present a suitable rector
to the church of Badsworth, Yorkshire, then in their gift and vacant. He
was appointed one of the executors of the 1434/5 will of his nephew, Thomas Tunstall, Knt. In 1436 the Abbot of Whalley bound himself to pay 40 marks
to Margaret, wife of William Harington, Knt., and her sons, Robert, Knt., Thomas, Esq., and John, Esq. SIR WILLIAM HARINGTON died testate 15 Feb. 1439/40. His widow, Margaret, served as one of the executors of her
husband's will. She presented to the church of Badsworth, Yorkshire in
1448. She died in 1450.
References:
Whitaker, Hist. & Antiqs. of the Deanery of Craven (1812): 10 (Neville
ped.). Whitaker, Hist. of Richmondshire 2(2) (1823), unpaginated,
Harrington chart. Cals. of the Procs. in Chancery, in the Reign of Queen Elizabeth 1 (1827): xxxiv. Wainwright, Hist. & Topog. Intro. to the
Wapentake of Strafford & Tickhill (1829): 92-94. Baines, Hist. of the
County Palatine & Duchy of Lancaster 4 (1836): 648 (Harington ped.). Beltz, Mems. of the Order of the Garter (1841): clvii, clx. Hulton, Coucher Book
or Chartulary of Whalley Abbey 4 (Chetham Soc. 20) (1849): 1148-1151 (obligation of Margaret widow of William de Harington, Knt., of Hornby, and her sons, Robert, Knt., Thomas, Esq., and John, Esq. dated 1436). Annual
Rpt. of the Deputy Keeper 37 (1876). 350, 418. Misc. Gen. et Heraldica n.s.
3 (1880): 236-237, 269-272. Flower, Vis. of Yorkshire 1563-4 (H.S.P. 16) (1881): 360 (Harrington ped.: "Sir William Harrington = Elizabeth on of theires of Sir Robert Nevill of Hornby"). Harrison, Hist. of Yorkshire: Wapentake of Gilling West (1885): 300. Croston, County Fams. of Lancashire
& Cheshire (1887): 242-266 (sub Harington). Baines, Hist. of the County Palatine & Duchy of Lancaster 4 (1891): 300-301 (Holand ped.). List of Sheriffs for England & Wales (PRO Lists and Indexes 9) (1898): 72, 162. Genealogist n.s. 17 (1901): 109-110. Clay, Yorkshire Church Notes
(Yorkshire Arch. Soc. Rec. Ser. 34) (1904): 70-72. Farrer, Final Concords
of the County of Lancaster 3 (Lanc. & Cheshire Rec. Soc. 50) (1905): 86-87, 123, 125, 128. C.P.R. 1429-1436 (1907): 257-258. Wedgwood, Hist. of Parliament 1 (1936): 426-427 (biog. of Sir Thomas Harington). C.C.R. 1435-1441 (1937): 170. Price, Yorkshire Deeds 10 (Yorkshire Arch. Soc. Rec. Ser. 120) (1955): 61-63. Roskell, House of Commons 1386-1421 3 (1992): 821-824 (biog. of Sir Robert Neville). Ormrod, Lord Lieutenants & High Sheriffs of Yorkshire, 1066-2000 (2000): 80. Smith, Art, Identity &
Devotion in 14th Cent. England (2003): 43-47. National Archives, CP 25/1/279/149, #13 [see abstract of fine at http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/index.html].
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
13. WILLIAM HARINGTON, Knt., 5th Lord Harington, of Aldingham (in Furness), Lancashire, Egremont, Cumberland, etc., King's knight, 2nd son by his father's 2nd marriage, born about 1390-4 (aged 24 26, 27, or 28 in 1418).
He fought in the French wars. He crossed to France in 1415 in the train of the Duke of Gloucester, and probably took part in the Battle of Agincourt.
In the next campaign in France in 1417, he attended his brother, John Harington, Knt. He was heir in 1418 to his older brother, John Harington, Knt., 4th Lord Harington. He fought at the Sieges of Rouen, 1418-19, Melun, 1420, and Meaux, 1421-2. He was summoned to Parliament from 26 Feb. 1420/1
to 26 Sept. 1439, by writs directed Willelmo de Haryngton'. He married in
or before 1423 MARGARET HILL (or HULLE), daughter of John Hill, Knt., of Hill's Court, St. Sidwell's, Exeter, Devon, Recorder of Exeter, King's serjeant, Justice of the King's Bench, by his 2nd wife, Maud, daughter of Giles Daubeney, Knt. [see HILL 11 for her ancestry]. She was a legatee in
the 1416 will of her mother. They had one daughter, Elizabeth. His wife, Margaret, was a legatee in the 1423 will of her brother, Robert Hill, of Spaxton, Somerset, who bequeathed her a girdle studded with pure gold. In 1438 he and his wife, Margaret, obtained a papal dispensation to choose a confessor. In 1430 William Gregory and three others, executors of Ralph Skynnard, Citizen and skinner of London, sued him in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of -u22. In 1430, as "William Haryngton knight", he sued Alexander Perys, of Truccokkeshull, Somerset, husbandman in the Court
of Common Pleas regarding a debt. In 1431 he made an agreement with the
Abbot of Furness concerning the bounds between Leese and Dalton. In 1433 he obtained leave for a passageway from his castle of Gleaston to Barray
across the abbey's land. In 1438 he and his wife, Margaret, obtained a
papal dispensation to choose a confessor. In 1440 he sued Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland, and two others for the next presentation of the church
of Waddingham, Lincolnshire. In 1441 he and his unnamed wife were granted a plenary indulgence in mortis articulo. SIR WILLIAM HARINGTON, 5th Lord Harington, died 3 (or 10) March 1457/8. He left a will dated 21 May 1457.
His wife, Margaret, predeceased him, and was buried at Conishead Priory, Lancashire.
References:
Cals. of the Procs. in Chancery, in the Reign of Queen Elizabeth 1 (1827): xxxiv. Vautier, Extrait du Registre des Dons, Confiscations, Maintenues, et autres Actes (1828): 17. Baines, Hist. of the County Palatine & Duchy of Lancaster 4 (1836): 648 (Harington ped.). Annual Rpt. of the Deputy Keeper
37 (1876): 177. Stafford, Reg. of Edmund Stafford (1886): 415-416 (will of Matilda Latymer), 424. Antiquary 32 (1896): 222-224 (Hill ped.); 36 (1900): 287-288. Birch, Cat. Seals in the British Museum 3 (1894): 68 (seal of William de Harington, Lord Harington -- A shield of arms, couch|-: fretty [HARINGTON]. Crest on a helmet, lambrequins tasselled, and chapeau, a
lion's head erased. Background diapered with foliage). Healey, Hist. of the Part of West Somerset (1901): 252-266. Weaver, Somerset Medieval Wills 1 (Somerset Rec. Soc. 16) (1901): 403-405 (will of Robert Hill). Genealogist n.s. 17 (1901): 250-251. Farrer, Final Concords of the County of Lancaster
3 (Lanc. & Cheshire Rec. Soc. 50) (1905): 130. Wrottesley, Peds. from the Plea Rolls (1905): 356, 368. Parker "Cal. of Feet of Fines for Cumberland"
in Trans. Cumberland & Westmorland Antiq. Soc. n.s. 7 (1907): 248. Papal Regs.: Letters 9 (1912): 240. Markham, Markham Memorials 1 (1913): 40 (Harington ped.). Mills, Cal. Gormanston Reg. (1916): 2, 15. Dudding, Hist. of the Manor & Parish of Saleby with Thoresthorpe (1922): 54-73 (re. Harington fam.). C.P. 6 (1926): 318-319 (sub Harington). Paget, Baronage of England (1957) 273: 2. Roskell, House of Commons 1386-1421 3 (1992):
373-375 (biog. of Robert Hill). Cal. IPM 21 (2002): 15-17. Clarke & Zutshi, Supplications from England & Wales in the Regs. of the Apostolic Penitentiary, 1410-1503 1 (Canterbury & York Soc. 103) (2012): 56, footnote 32. Court of Common Pleas, CP40/677, image 1403d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no677/bCP40no677dorses/IMG_1403.htm). Court of Common Pleas, CP40/678, image 929d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no678/bCP40no678dorses/IMG_0929.htm).
On 06-May-24 1:32 PM, Michael Pitzer wrote:
Michael Pitzer <mpitzer01@pm.me> wrote:
Michael Pitzer <mpitzer01@pm.me> wrote:
DISCREPANCY
I have a discrepancy in a line that I am requesting assistance on
resolving. I am trying to determine whether or not Margery / Margaret
Harington the wife of Richard Braddyll is the daughter of Margaret de
Neville and William Harington, K.G.
MY GUT FEELING
I believe that Margaret / Margery Harington Wife of Richard Braddyll or >>>> Bradhull is the daughter of Margaret Neville and Sir William Harington as >>>> asserted in the 2022 Edition of Descents of 900 Immigrants, the Visitation >>>> of 1567 and Canon Raines's Lane. MSS. Vol. XIII. pp. 117-124.
IrCOm hoping that Douglas Richardson weighs in as the only thing that gave me
pause was that she wasnrCOt listed as a daughter in Royal Ancestry Volume >>>> III, 2011 Edition, P.319-321, #15 Margaret Neville and William Harrington, >>>> K.G.
CITATIONS
Sir William Harington, KG, of Hornby is identified as the husband of
Margaret Neville on an original pedigree. University of Oxford, Bodleian >>>> Library MS. Ashmole 804, pt. I. Retrieved from:
https://digital.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/objects/77f9525e-c3b8-4765-815c-0fc632c10d70/
on 3 May 2024.
The Visitation of 1567 clearly states Richard Bradhull=Margery, dau. of >>>> William Harrington of Brockhole, ar. of Hornby, co. Lancaster, ar.
WhitakerrCOs History of the Parish Whalley contains a pedigree that states:
Johanna, 2nd dau. of rCarCa..= Richard Bradhull vix temp Edw IV = Margaret,
dau. of Sir William Harrington, of Hornby, K.G. s.p. This enhanced pedigree
further solidifies the person being identified. The enhancement is
identified as PEDIGREE OF BRADDYLL. (With additions from Flower's
Visitation of Lancashire 1567 and Canon Raines's Lane. MSS. Vol. XIII. pp. >>>> 117-124.)
Whitaker, Thomas Dunham. An history of the original Parish of Whalley, and >>>> honor of Clitheroe, to which is subjoined an account of the Parish of
Cartmell. 4th ed., Book IV, Chapter 1, Page 3
Retrieved from:
https://archive.org/details/historyoforigina02whit/page/n33/mode/2up on 5 >>>> May 2024
Roberts, Gary Boyd. The Royal Descents of 900 Immigrants Volume II, 2022 >>>> Edition, Pages 841-842 , Peter George Talbot line.
12. Robert de Neville = Margaret de la Pole
13. Margaret de Neville = Sir William Harington
14. Margaret Harington = Richard Braddyll
15. John Braddyll = Emote Pollard
Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry Volume III, 2011 Edition, P.319-321, >>>> #15 Margaret Neville and William Harrington, K.G.
Sons listed Robert, Thomas and John
Daughters listed Isabel, Ellen and Agnes
Missing is Margaret Harington wife of Richard Braddyll
Flower, William Esq. The Visitation of the County Palatine Lancaster in the
Year 1567. Bradhull of Brockhole, Page 27. Retrieved from:
https://archive.org/details/remainshistorica81chetuoft/page/n51/mode/1up?q=Bradyll
on 05 May 2024
I think PeterrCOs reply further strengthened the argument. His postrCa.
There is a stained-glass window in the Braddyll chapel at Ulverston showing >>> "Sable a fret Argent a label of three points Gules (Harington); on an
inescutcheon of pretence, Argent a saltire Gules (Nevile, of Hornby); all >>> within a garter of the Order of the Knights of the Garter", see R.S.
Boumphrey, The Braddyll heraldry at Conishead priory and in the Braddyll >>> chapel in St. Mary's church, Ulverston, p. 156 no. 115, downloadable here: >>> https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives/view/cumberland/contents.cfm?vol_id=721
Peter Stewart
The footnotes in the Braddyll Heraldry he linked above stated:
118. Richard Braddyll married Margery, daughter of Sir William Harington, >>> KG LM (iii 210). That really only leaves a question about whether or not >>> this is the same William that married Margaret Neville.
115.Sir William Harington, K.G., of Farleton (died 1440), married Margaret, >>> daughter and eventually heir of Sir Robert Neville, of Hornby (died 1413) >>> (Grimble 29).
The same document also names Margaret NevillerCOs spouse as of Farleton. >>> Hornby wasnrCOt inherited by Margaret until later. The William Harington 5th
Baron of Aldingham married Margaret Hill.
Douglas Richardson
Dec 17, 2015, 6:02:56rC>PM
to
Dear Kevan ~
Terry is correct that Sir William Harington, of Hornby, Lancashire did not >>> die in 1415 as you suppose, but died in 1440. He is thought to be the Sir >>> William Harington who was a standard bearer at the Battle of Agincourt in >>> 1415.
However, his cousin, Sir William Harington (died 1458), of Aldingham,
Lancashire, is known to have crossed to France in 1415 in the train of the >>> Duke of Gloucester, and it is thought that he probably took part in the
Battle of Agincourt.
As such, it is possible that both men were at the Battle of Agincourt. If >>> there was only one Sir William Harington at Agincourt, my guess would be >>> that it was the Aldingham man, as he was quite active in military service >>> in France after 1415.
I've copied below my current file accounts of both men. The accounts below >>> are slightly amended from the accounts of these men found in my book, Royal >>> Ancestry, published in 2013.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + +
15. MARGARET NEVILLE, married before 17 April 1401 (date of fine) WILLIAM >>> HARINGTON, K.G., of Farleton (in Melling), Aighton (in Mitton),
Bolton-le-Moors, Chorley, Ellel, and Over Kellet, Lancashire, and Farleton >>> in Kendale, Westmorland, Sheriff of Yorkshire, 1408-9, 1413-14, 1422-3,
1428-30, and, in right of his wife, of Hornby, Lancashire, son and heir of >>> Nicholas Harington (or Haverington), Knt., of Farleton (in Melling),
Bolton-le-Moors, Heath Charnock, Aighton, Lancashire, Farleton in Kendale, >>> Westmorland, Knight of the Shire for Lancashire, Sheriff of Lancashire,
1381-4, by Isabel, daughter and heiress of William English, Knt., of
Appleby, Little Strickland, and Hasket, Westmorland. They had three sons, >>> Robert, Knt., Thomas, Knt., and John, Esq., and three daughters, Ellen,
Isabel, and Agnes. In 1401 her parents settled the reversion of the manor >>> of Brearley (in Halifax), Yorkshire on Margaret and her male heirs. He was >>> a standard bearer at the Battle of Agincourt in 1415. He was one of the
executors in 1417 will of his brother, James Harington, Knt. In 1420 he
presented to the church of Badsworth, Yorkshire. In 1423 he was granted an >>> annuity of -u100 by Queen Katherine of France, widow of King Henry V of
France. His wife, Margaret, was co-heiress in 1424 to her niece, Margaret >>> Neville, wife of Thomas Beaufort, Duke of Exeter, by which she inherited >>> Hornby Castle, Lancashire, and the manors of Aintree, Lancashire and
Brearley (in Halifax), Yorkshire. In 1426 he and Henry Marchall, clerk,
were summoned to reply to Robert Willoughby, Knt., of Rerisby, and two
others in a plea that they should permit them to present a suitable rector >>> to the church of Badsworth, Yorkshire, then in their gift and vacant. He >>> was appointed one of the executors of the 1434/5 will of his nephew, Thomas >>> Tunstall, Knt. In 1436 the Abbot of Whalley bound himself to pay 40 marks >>> to Margaret, wife of William Harington, Knt., and her sons, Robert, Knt., >>> Thomas, Esq., and John, Esq. SIR WILLIAM HARINGTON died testate 15 Feb.
1439/40. His widow, Margaret, served as one of the executors of her
husband's will. She presented to the church of Badsworth, Yorkshire in
1448. She died in 1450.
References:
Whitaker, Hist. & Antiqs. of the Deanery of Craven (1812): 10 (Neville
ped.). Whitaker, Hist. of Richmondshire 2(2) (1823), unpaginated,
Harrington chart. Cals. of the Procs. in Chancery, in the Reign of Queen >>> Elizabeth 1 (1827): xxxiv. Wainwright, Hist. & Topog. Intro. to the
Wapentake of Strafford & Tickhill (1829): 92-94. Baines, Hist. of the
County Palatine & Duchy of Lancaster 4 (1836): 648 (Harington ped.). Beltz, >>> Mems. of the Order of the Garter (1841): clvii, clx. Hulton, Coucher Book >>> or Chartulary of Whalley Abbey 4 (Chetham Soc. 20) (1849): 1148-1151
(obligation of Margaret widow of William de Harington, Knt., of Hornby, and >>> her sons, Robert, Knt., Thomas, Esq., and John, Esq. dated 1436). Annual >>> Rpt. of the Deputy Keeper 37 (1876). 350, 418. Misc. Gen. et Heraldica n.s. >>> 3 (1880): 236-237, 269-272. Flower, Vis. of Yorkshire 1563-4 (H.S.P. 16) >>> (1881): 360 (Harrington ped.: "Sir William Harrington = Elizabeth on of
theires of Sir Robert Nevill of Hornby"). Harrison, Hist. of Yorkshire:
Wapentake of Gilling West (1885): 300. Croston, County Fams. of Lancashire >>> & Cheshire (1887): 242-266 (sub Harington). Baines, Hist. of the County
Palatine & Duchy of Lancaster 4 (1891): 300-301 (Holand ped.). List of
Sheriffs for England & Wales (PRO Lists and Indexes 9) (1898): 72, 162.
Genealogist n.s. 17 (1901): 109-110. Clay, Yorkshire Church Notes
(Yorkshire Arch. Soc. Rec. Ser. 34) (1904): 70-72. Farrer, Final Concords >>> of the County of Lancaster 3 (Lanc. & Cheshire Rec. Soc. 50) (1905): 86-87, >>> 123, 125, 128. C.P.R. 1429-1436 (1907): 257-258. Wedgwood, Hist. of
Parliament 1 (1936): 426-427 (biog. of Sir Thomas Harington). C.C.R.
1435-1441 (1937): 170. Price, Yorkshire Deeds 10 (Yorkshire Arch. Soc. Rec. >>> Ser. 120) (1955): 61-63. Roskell, House of Commons 1386-1421 3 (1992):
821-824 (biog. of Sir Robert Neville). Ormrod, Lord Lieutenants & High
Sheriffs of Yorkshire, 1066-2000 (2000): 80. Smith, Art, Identity &
Devotion in 14th Cent. England (2003): 43-47. National Archives, CP
25/1/279/149, #13 [see abstract of fine at
http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/index.html].
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
13. WILLIAM HARINGTON, Knt., 5th Lord Harington, of Aldingham (in Furness), >>> Lancashire, Egremont, Cumberland, etc., King's knight, 2nd son by his
father's 2nd marriage, born about 1390-4 (aged 24 26, 27, or 28 in 1418). >>> He fought in the French wars. He crossed to France in 1415 in the train of >>> the Duke of Gloucester, and probably took part in the Battle of Agincourt. >>> In the next campaign in France in 1417, he attended his brother, John
Harington, Knt. He was heir in 1418 to his older brother, John Harington, >>> Knt., 4th Lord Harington. He fought at the Sieges of Rouen, 1418-19, Melun, >>> 1420, and Meaux, 1421-2. He was summoned to Parliament from 26 Feb. 1420/1 >>> to 26 Sept. 1439, by writs directed Willelmo de Haryngton'. He married in >>> or before 1423 MARGARET HILL (or HULLE), daughter of John Hill, Knt., of >>> Hill's Court, St. Sidwell's, Exeter, Devon, Recorder of Exeter, King's
serjeant, Justice of the King's Bench, by his 2nd wife, Maud, daughter of >>> Giles Daubeney, Knt. [see HILL 11 for her ancestry]. She was a legatee in >>> the 1416 will of her mother. They had one daughter, Elizabeth. His wife, >>> Margaret, was a legatee in the 1423 will of her brother, Robert Hill, of >>> Spaxton, Somerset, who bequeathed her a girdle studded with pure gold. In >>> 1438 he and his wife, Margaret, obtained a papal dispensation to choose a >>> confessor. In 1430 William Gregory and three others, executors of Ralph
Skynnard, Citizen and skinner of London, sued him in the Court of Common >>> Pleas regarding a debt of -u22. In 1430, as "William Haryngton knight", he >>> sued Alexander Perys, of Truccokkeshull, Somerset, husbandman in the Court >>> of Common Pleas regarding a debt. In 1431 he made an agreement with the
Abbot of Furness concerning the bounds between Leese and Dalton. In 1433 he >>> obtained leave for a passageway from his castle of Gleaston to Barray
across the abbey's land. In 1438 he and his wife, Margaret, obtained a
papal dispensation to choose a confessor. In 1440 he sued Henry Percy, Earl >>> of Northumberland, and two others for the next presentation of the church >>> of Waddingham, Lincolnshire. In 1441 he and his unnamed wife were granted a >>> plenary indulgence in mortis articulo. SIR WILLIAM HARINGTON, 5th Lord
Harington, died 3 (or 10) March 1457/8. He left a will dated 21 May 1457. >>> His wife, Margaret, predeceased him, and was buried at Conishead Priory, >>> Lancashire.
References:
Cals. of the Procs. in Chancery, in the Reign of Queen Elizabeth 1 (1827): >>> xxxiv. Vautier, Extrait du Registre des Dons, Confiscations, Maintenues, et >>> autres Actes (1828): 17. Baines, Hist. of the County Palatine & Duchy of >>> Lancaster 4 (1836): 648 (Harington ped.). Annual Rpt. of the Deputy Keeper >>> 37 (1876): 177. Stafford, Reg. of Edmund Stafford (1886): 415-416 (will of >>> Matilda Latymer), 424. Antiquary 32 (1896): 222-224 (Hill ped.); 36 (1900): >>> 287-288. Birch, Cat. Seals in the British Museum 3 (1894): 68 (seal of
William de Harington, Lord Harington -- A shield of arms, couch|-: fretty >>> [HARINGTON]. Crest on a helmet, lambrequins tasselled, and chapeau, a
lion's head erased. Background diapered with foliage). Healey, Hist. of the >>> Part of West Somerset (1901): 252-266. Weaver, Somerset Medieval Wills 1 >>> (Somerset Rec. Soc. 16) (1901): 403-405 (will of Robert Hill). Genealogist >>> n.s. 17 (1901): 250-251. Farrer, Final Concords of the County of Lancaster >>> 3 (Lanc. & Cheshire Rec. Soc. 50) (1905): 130. Wrottesley, Peds. from the >>> Plea Rolls (1905): 356, 368. Parker "Cal. of Feet of Fines for Cumberland" >>> in Trans. Cumberland & Westmorland Antiq. Soc. n.s. 7 (1907): 248. Papal >>> Regs.: Letters 9 (1912): 240. Markham, Markham Memorials 1 (1913): 40
(Harington ped.). Mills, Cal. Gormanston Reg. (1916): 2, 15. Dudding, Hist. >>> of the Manor & Parish of Saleby with Thoresthorpe (1922): 54-73 (re.
Harington fam.). C.P. 6 (1926): 318-319 (sub Harington). Paget, Baronage of >>> England (1957) 273: 2. Roskell, House of Commons 1386-1421 3 (1992):
373-375 (biog. of Robert Hill). Cal. IPM 21 (2002): 15-17. Clarke & Zutshi, >>> Supplications from England & Wales in the Regs. of the Apostolic
Penitentiary, 1410-1503 1 (Canterbury & York Soc. 103) (2012): 56, footnote >>> 32. Court of Common Pleas, CP40/677, image 1403d (available at
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no677/bCP40no677dorses/IMG_1403.htm). >>> Court of Common Pleas, CP40/678, image 929d (available at
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no678/bCP40no678dorses/IMG_0929.htm). >>>
One other sourcerCa. Croston, James. County families of Lancashire and
Cheshire. Pages 254-255. The eldest daughter is called Margaret in error.
She was Isabel. The family would not have named two daughters Margaret. The >> author lists the daughters as Margaret, Ellen, Agnes and Margaret.
Retrieved from: https://archive.org/details/countyfamiliesof00crosuoft on >> 5 May 2024
Perhaps this has been cited on the subject already - according to VCH Lancaster vol. 6 p. 331, "Richard Braddyll succeeded and died before
1478, leaving by Joan his wife John, his son and heir," and ibid note
79, "Richard married first Margaret daughter of William Harrington of Hornby, K.G., by whom he had no issue", see here https://archive.org/details/cu31924088434620/page/n456/mode/1up.
Peter Stewart
Peter Stewart <psssst@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
On 06-May-24 1:32 PM, Michael Pitzer wrote:
Michael Pitzer <mpitzer01@pm.me> wrote:
Michael Pitzer <mpitzer01@pm.me> wrote:
DISCREPANCY
I have a discrepancy in a line that I am requesting assistance on
resolving. I am trying to determine whether or not Margery / Margaret >>>>> Harington the wife of Richard Braddyll is the daughter of Margaret de >>>>> Neville and William Harington, K.G.
MY GUT FEELING
I believe that Margaret / Margery Harington Wife of Richard Braddyll or >>>>> Bradhull is the daughter of Margaret Neville and Sir William Harington as >>>>> asserted in the 2022 Edition of Descents of 900 Immigrants, the Visitation
of 1567 and Canon Raines's Lane. MSS. Vol. XIII. pp. 117-124.
IrCOm hoping that Douglas Richardson weighs in as the only thing that gave me
pause was that she wasnrCOt listed as a daughter in Royal Ancestry Volume >>>>> III, 2011 Edition, P.319-321, #15 Margaret Neville and William Harrington,
K.G.
CITATIONS
Sir William Harington, KG, of Hornby is identified as the husband of >>>>> Margaret Neville on an original pedigree. University of Oxford, Bodleian >>>>> Library MS. Ashmole 804, pt. I. Retrieved from:
https://digital.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/objects/77f9525e-c3b8-4765-815c-0fc632c10d70/
on 3 May 2024.
The Visitation of 1567 clearly states Richard Bradhull=Margery, dau. of >>>>> William Harrington of Brockhole, ar. of Hornby, co. Lancaster, ar.
WhitakerrCOs History of the Parish Whalley contains a pedigree that states:
Johanna, 2nd dau. of rCarCa..= Richard Bradhull vix temp Edw IV = Margaret,
dau. of Sir William Harrington, of Hornby, K.G. s.p. This enhanced pedigree
further solidifies the person being identified. The enhancement is
identified as PEDIGREE OF BRADDYLL. (With additions from Flower's
Visitation of Lancashire 1567 and Canon Raines's Lane. MSS. Vol. XIII. pp.
117-124.)
Whitaker, Thomas Dunham. An history of the original Parish of Whalley, and
honor of Clitheroe, to which is subjoined an account of the Parish of >>>>> Cartmell. 4th ed., Book IV, Chapter 1, Page 3
Retrieved from:
https://archive.org/details/historyoforigina02whit/page/n33/mode/2up on 5 >>>>> May 2024
Roberts, Gary Boyd. The Royal Descents of 900 Immigrants Volume II, 2022 >>>>> Edition, Pages 841-842 , Peter George Talbot line.
12. Robert de Neville = Margaret de la Pole
13. Margaret de Neville = Sir William Harington
14. Margaret Harington = Richard Braddyll
15. John Braddyll = Emote Pollard
Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry Volume III, 2011 Edition, P.319-321, >>>>> #15 Margaret Neville and William Harrington, K.G.
Sons listed Robert, Thomas and John
Daughters listed Isabel, Ellen and Agnes
Missing is Margaret Harington wife of Richard Braddyll
Flower, William Esq. The Visitation of the County Palatine Lancaster in the
Year 1567. Bradhull of Brockhole, Page 27. Retrieved from:
https://archive.org/details/remainshistorica81chetuoft/page/n51/mode/1up?q=Bradyll
on 05 May 2024
I think PeterrCOs reply further strengthened the argument. His postrCa. >>>>
There is a stained-glass window in the Braddyll chapel at Ulverston showing
"Sable a fret Argent a label of three points Gules (Harington); on an
inescutcheon of pretence, Argent a saltire Gules (Nevile, of Hornby); all >>>> within a garter of the Order of the Knights of the Garter", see R.S.
Boumphrey, The Braddyll heraldry at Conishead priory and in the Braddyll >>>> chapel in St. Mary's church, Ulverston, p. 156 no. 115, downloadable here: >>>> https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives/view/cumberland/contents.cfm?vol_id=721
Peter Stewart
The footnotes in the Braddyll Heraldry he linked above stated:
118. Richard Braddyll married Margery, daughter of Sir William Harington, >>>> KG LM (iii 210). That really only leaves a question about whether or not >>>> this is the same William that married Margaret Neville.
115.Sir William Harington, K.G., of Farleton (died 1440), married Margaret,
daughter and eventually heir of Sir Robert Neville, of Hornby (died 1413) >>>> (Grimble 29).
The same document also names Margaret NevillerCOs spouse as of Farleton. >>>> Hornby wasnrCOt inherited by Margaret until later. The William Harington 5th
Baron of Aldingham married Margaret Hill.
Douglas Richardson
Dec 17, 2015, 6:02:56rC>PM
to
Dear Kevan ~
Terry is correct that Sir William Harington, of Hornby, Lancashire did not >>>> die in 1415 as you suppose, but died in 1440. He is thought to be the Sir >>>> William Harington who was a standard bearer at the Battle of Agincourt in >>>> 1415.
However, his cousin, Sir William Harington (died 1458), of Aldingham,
Lancashire, is known to have crossed to France in 1415 in the train of the >>>> Duke of Gloucester, and it is thought that he probably took part in the >>>> Battle of Agincourt.
As such, it is possible that both men were at the Battle of Agincourt. If >>>> there was only one Sir William Harington at Agincourt, my guess would be >>>> that it was the Aldingham man, as he was quite active in military service >>>> in France after 1415.
I've copied below my current file accounts of both men. The accounts below >>>> are slightly amended from the accounts of these men found in my book, Royal
Ancestry, published in 2013.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + +
15. MARGARET NEVILLE, married before 17 April 1401 (date of fine) WILLIAM >>>> HARINGTON, K.G., of Farleton (in Melling), Aighton (in Mitton),
Bolton-le-Moors, Chorley, Ellel, and Over Kellet, Lancashire, and Farleton >>>> in Kendale, Westmorland, Sheriff of Yorkshire, 1408-9, 1413-14, 1422-3, >>>> 1428-30, and, in right of his wife, of Hornby, Lancashire, son and heir of >>>> Nicholas Harington (or Haverington), Knt., of Farleton (in Melling),
Bolton-le-Moors, Heath Charnock, Aighton, Lancashire, Farleton in Kendale, >>>> Westmorland, Knight of the Shire for Lancashire, Sheriff of Lancashire, >>>> 1381-4, by Isabel, daughter and heiress of William English, Knt., of
Appleby, Little Strickland, and Hasket, Westmorland. They had three sons, >>>> Robert, Knt., Thomas, Knt., and John, Esq., and three daughters, Ellen, >>>> Isabel, and Agnes. In 1401 her parents settled the reversion of the manor >>>> of Brearley (in Halifax), Yorkshire on Margaret and her male heirs. He was >>>> a standard bearer at the Battle of Agincourt in 1415. He was one of the >>>> executors in 1417 will of his brother, James Harington, Knt. In 1420 he >>>> presented to the church of Badsworth, Yorkshire. In 1423 he was granted an >>>> annuity of -u100 by Queen Katherine of France, widow of King Henry V of >>>> France. His wife, Margaret, was co-heiress in 1424 to her niece, Margaret >>>> Neville, wife of Thomas Beaufort, Duke of Exeter, by which she inherited >>>> Hornby Castle, Lancashire, and the manors of Aintree, Lancashire and
Brearley (in Halifax), Yorkshire. In 1426 he and Henry Marchall, clerk, >>>> were summoned to reply to Robert Willoughby, Knt., of Rerisby, and two >>>> others in a plea that they should permit them to present a suitable rector >>>> to the church of Badsworth, Yorkshire, then in their gift and vacant. He >>>> was appointed one of the executors of the 1434/5 will of his nephew, Thomas
Tunstall, Knt. In 1436 the Abbot of Whalley bound himself to pay 40 marks >>>> to Margaret, wife of William Harington, Knt., and her sons, Robert, Knt., >>>> Thomas, Esq., and John, Esq. SIR WILLIAM HARINGTON died testate 15 Feb. >>>> 1439/40. His widow, Margaret, served as one of the executors of her
husband's will. She presented to the church of Badsworth, Yorkshire in >>>> 1448. She died in 1450.
References:
Whitaker, Hist. & Antiqs. of the Deanery of Craven (1812): 10 (Neville >>>> ped.). Whitaker, Hist. of Richmondshire 2(2) (1823), unpaginated,
Harrington chart. Cals. of the Procs. in Chancery, in the Reign of Queen >>>> Elizabeth 1 (1827): xxxiv. Wainwright, Hist. & Topog. Intro. to the
Wapentake of Strafford & Tickhill (1829): 92-94. Baines, Hist. of the
County Palatine & Duchy of Lancaster 4 (1836): 648 (Harington ped.). Beltz,
Mems. of the Order of the Garter (1841): clvii, clx. Hulton, Coucher Book >>>> or Chartulary of Whalley Abbey 4 (Chetham Soc. 20) (1849): 1148-1151
(obligation of Margaret widow of William de Harington, Knt., of Hornby, and
her sons, Robert, Knt., Thomas, Esq., and John, Esq. dated 1436). Annual >>>> Rpt. of the Deputy Keeper 37 (1876). 350, 418. Misc. Gen. et Heraldica n.s.
3 (1880): 236-237, 269-272. Flower, Vis. of Yorkshire 1563-4 (H.S.P. 16) >>>> (1881): 360 (Harrington ped.: "Sir William Harrington = Elizabeth on of >>>> theires of Sir Robert Nevill of Hornby"). Harrison, Hist. of Yorkshire: >>>> Wapentake of Gilling West (1885): 300. Croston, County Fams. of Lancashire >>>> & Cheshire (1887): 242-266 (sub Harington). Baines, Hist. of the County >>>> Palatine & Duchy of Lancaster 4 (1891): 300-301 (Holand ped.). List of >>>> Sheriffs for England & Wales (PRO Lists and Indexes 9) (1898): 72, 162. >>>> Genealogist n.s. 17 (1901): 109-110. Clay, Yorkshire Church Notes
(Yorkshire Arch. Soc. Rec. Ser. 34) (1904): 70-72. Farrer, Final Concords >>>> of the County of Lancaster 3 (Lanc. & Cheshire Rec. Soc. 50) (1905): 86-87,
123, 125, 128. C.P.R. 1429-1436 (1907): 257-258. Wedgwood, Hist. of
Parliament 1 (1936): 426-427 (biog. of Sir Thomas Harington). C.C.R.
1435-1441 (1937): 170. Price, Yorkshire Deeds 10 (Yorkshire Arch. Soc. Rec.
Ser. 120) (1955): 61-63. Roskell, House of Commons 1386-1421 3 (1992): >>>> 821-824 (biog. of Sir Robert Neville). Ormrod, Lord Lieutenants & High >>>> Sheriffs of Yorkshire, 1066-2000 (2000): 80. Smith, Art, Identity &
Devotion in 14th Cent. England (2003): 43-47. National Archives, CP
25/1/279/149, #13 [see abstract of fine at
http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/index.html].
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
13. WILLIAM HARINGTON, Knt., 5th Lord Harington, of Aldingham (in Furness),
Lancashire, Egremont, Cumberland, etc., King's knight, 2nd son by his
father's 2nd marriage, born about 1390-4 (aged 24 26, 27, or 28 in 1418). >>>> He fought in the French wars. He crossed to France in 1415 in the train of >>>> the Duke of Gloucester, and probably took part in the Battle of Agincourt. >>>> In the next campaign in France in 1417, he attended his brother, John
Harington, Knt. He was heir in 1418 to his older brother, John Harington, >>>> Knt., 4th Lord Harington. He fought at the Sieges of Rouen, 1418-19, Melun,
1420, and Meaux, 1421-2. He was summoned to Parliament from 26 Feb. 1420/1 >>>> to 26 Sept. 1439, by writs directed Willelmo de Haryngton'. He married in >>>> or before 1423 MARGARET HILL (or HULLE), daughter of John Hill, Knt., of >>>> Hill's Court, St. Sidwell's, Exeter, Devon, Recorder of Exeter, King's >>>> serjeant, Justice of the King's Bench, by his 2nd wife, Maud, daughter of >>>> Giles Daubeney, Knt. [see HILL 11 for her ancestry]. She was a legatee in >>>> the 1416 will of her mother. They had one daughter, Elizabeth. His wife, >>>> Margaret, was a legatee in the 1423 will of her brother, Robert Hill, of >>>> Spaxton, Somerset, who bequeathed her a girdle studded with pure gold. In >>>> 1438 he and his wife, Margaret, obtained a papal dispensation to choose a >>>> confessor. In 1430 William Gregory and three others, executors of Ralph >>>> Skynnard, Citizen and skinner of London, sued him in the Court of Common >>>> Pleas regarding a debt of -u22. In 1430, as "William Haryngton knight", he >>>> sued Alexander Perys, of Truccokkeshull, Somerset, husbandman in the Court >>>> of Common Pleas regarding a debt. In 1431 he made an agreement with the >>>> Abbot of Furness concerning the bounds between Leese and Dalton. In 1433 he
obtained leave for a passageway from his castle of Gleaston to Barray
across the abbey's land. In 1438 he and his wife, Margaret, obtained a >>>> papal dispensation to choose a confessor. In 1440 he sued Henry Percy, Earl
of Northumberland, and two others for the next presentation of the church >>>> of Waddingham, Lincolnshire. In 1441 he and his unnamed wife were granted a
plenary indulgence in mortis articulo. SIR WILLIAM HARINGTON, 5th Lord >>>> Harington, died 3 (or 10) March 1457/8. He left a will dated 21 May 1457. >>>> His wife, Margaret, predeceased him, and was buried at Conishead Priory, >>>> Lancashire.
References:
Cals. of the Procs. in Chancery, in the Reign of Queen Elizabeth 1 (1827): >>>> xxxiv. Vautier, Extrait du Registre des Dons, Confiscations, Maintenues, et
autres Actes (1828): 17. Baines, Hist. of the County Palatine & Duchy of >>>> Lancaster 4 (1836): 648 (Harington ped.). Annual Rpt. of the Deputy Keeper >>>> 37 (1876): 177. Stafford, Reg. of Edmund Stafford (1886): 415-416 (will of >>>> Matilda Latymer), 424. Antiquary 32 (1896): 222-224 (Hill ped.); 36 (1900):
287-288. Birch, Cat. Seals in the British Museum 3 (1894): 68 (seal of >>>> William de Harington, Lord Harington -- A shield of arms, couch|-: fretty >>>> [HARINGTON]. Crest on a helmet, lambrequins tasselled, and chapeau, a
lion's head erased. Background diapered with foliage). Healey, Hist. of the
Part of West Somerset (1901): 252-266. Weaver, Somerset Medieval Wills 1 >>>> (Somerset Rec. Soc. 16) (1901): 403-405 (will of Robert Hill). Genealogist >>>> n.s. 17 (1901): 250-251. Farrer, Final Concords of the County of Lancaster >>>> 3 (Lanc. & Cheshire Rec. Soc. 50) (1905): 130. Wrottesley, Peds. from the >>>> Plea Rolls (1905): 356, 368. Parker "Cal. of Feet of Fines for Cumberland" >>>> in Trans. Cumberland & Westmorland Antiq. Soc. n.s. 7 (1907): 248. Papal >>>> Regs.: Letters 9 (1912): 240. Markham, Markham Memorials 1 (1913): 40
(Harington ped.). Mills, Cal. Gormanston Reg. (1916): 2, 15. Dudding, Hist.
of the Manor & Parish of Saleby with Thoresthorpe (1922): 54-73 (re.
Harington fam.). C.P. 6 (1926): 318-319 (sub Harington). Paget, Baronage of
England (1957) 273: 2. Roskell, House of Commons 1386-1421 3 (1992):
373-375 (biog. of Robert Hill). Cal. IPM 21 (2002): 15-17. Clarke & Zutshi,
Supplications from England & Wales in the Regs. of the Apostolic
Penitentiary, 1410-1503 1 (Canterbury & York Soc. 103) (2012): 56, footnote
32. Court of Common Pleas, CP40/677, image 1403d (available at
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no677/bCP40no677dorses/IMG_1403.htm). >>>> Court of Common Pleas, CP40/678, image 929d (available at
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no678/bCP40no678dorses/IMG_0929.htm). >>>>
One other sourcerCa. Croston, James. County families of Lancashire and
Cheshire. Pages 254-255. The eldest daughter is called Margaret in error. >>> She was Isabel. The family would not have named two daughters Margaret. The >>> author lists the daughters as Margaret, Ellen, Agnes and Margaret.
Retrieved from: https://archive.org/details/countyfamiliesof00crosuoft on >>> 5 May 2024
Perhaps this has been cited on the subject already - according to VCH
Lancaster vol. 6 p. 331, "Richard Braddyll succeeded and died before
1478, leaving by Joan his wife John, his son and heir," and ibid note
79, "Richard married first Margaret daughter of William Harrington of
Hornby, K.G., by whom he had no issue", see here
https://archive.org/details/cu31924088434620/page/n456/mode/1up.
Peter Stewart
Thank you Peter. I believe this source muddied the waters a little.
Although the line was valid, the descent was severed since John was the son and heir by Joan not Margaret according to this source. Interestingly
enough, the 1567 visitation places John as the only son of Margaret Harrington. Nearly all other sources have as well.
I wonder now who John HaringtonrCOs mother really was. Is this a trustworthy source or should I pay more attention to the record created by the Flowers Visitation. Your suggestion?
Michael Pitzer <mpitzer01@
more research to do.
https://www.hslc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/25-6-Abram.pdf , page
215 gives DugdalerCOs Visitation of Lancashire 1664-5 the credit for stating the wife as Jone instead of Margaret, the mother of John and William.
AT THIS POINT, I AM EVEN MORE CONFUSED. PLEASE HELP!
One other sourcerCa. Croston, James. County families of Lancashire and Cheshire. Pages 254-255. The eldest daughter is called Margaret in error.
She was Isabel. The family would not have named two daughters Margaret. The author lists the daughters as Margaret, Ellen, Agnes and Margaret.
On 5/5/2024 8:32 PM, Michael Pitzer wrote:
One other sourcerCa. Croston, James. County families of Lancashire and
Cheshire. Pages 254-255. The eldest daughter is called Margaret in error.
She was Isabel. The family would not have named two daughters Margaret. The >> author lists the daughters as Margaret, Ellen, Agnes and Margaret.
I have never studied this family, but just in terms of common practice I
am aware of several families from this period that used the same name
for two siblings. As such, a conclusion that they "would not have named
two daughters Margaret" is not as strong as it might seem.
taf
taf <taf.medieval@gmail.com> wrote:
On 5/5/2024 8:32 PM, Michael Pitzer wrote:
One other sourcerCa. Croston, James. County families of Lancashire and
Cheshire. Pages 254-255. The eldest daughter is called Margaret in error. >>> She was Isabel. The family would not have named two daughters Margaret. The >>> author lists the daughters as Margaret, Ellen, Agnes and Margaret.
I have never studied this family, but just in terms of common practice I
am aware of several families from this period that used the same name
for two siblings. As such, a conclusion that they "would not have named
two daughters Margaret" is not as strong as it might seem.
taf
TAF,
Thank you for replying. That assumption was made after looking at other research such as Royal Ancestry where the daughters were explicitly named sans Margaret. They were Agnes, Ellen, Isabel. Douglas Richardson states
the husbands of each as well, in the Royal Ancestry citation above. You certainly make a very fair point about jumping to conclusions prematurely though.
IrCOm on pretty solid ground on my original question about MargaretrCOs parentage. Several different sources seem to point to the fourth daughter Margaret being the daughter of William Harington, KG of Farleton and later Hornby and Margaret Neville.
The only other question still lingering is concerning whether Margaret Harington Braddyll was the mother of Richard BraddyllrCOs two sons, John the heir and William a clerk.
So far, I am leaning towards discounting DugdalerCOs much later visitation of 1664-5 where he asserts Johanna 2nd dau of rCa.. was the mother of both. There were a couple of derivative works that came from that pedigree as
well. FlowerrCOs Visitation of 1567 points to Margaret Harington Braddyll. Please correct me if I am wrong, but generally if two sources conflict, shouldnrCOt more weight be given to the source made closer to the lifetime of the event?
I am searching for property, wills, marriage records, etc to support or refute this hypothesis. If anyone can point me to some sources, I would appreciate it. I am still learning about good sources for this era of genealogy.
I have been relying on Douglas Richardson, Gary Boyd Roberts, Histories, Google searches and the various resources found on this site https://sites.google.com/site/cochoit/medieval-genealogy-resources/
IrCOm sure there are others out there that others in this group can direct me to.
On 08-May-24 2:34 AM, Michael Pitzer wrote:
taf <taf.medieval@gmail.com> wrote:
On 5/5/2024 8:32 PM, Michael Pitzer wrote:
One other sourcerCa. Croston, James. County families of Lancashire and >>>> Cheshire. Pages 254-255. The eldest daughter is called Margaret in error. >>>> She was Isabel. The family would not have named two daughters Margaret. The
author lists the daughters as Margaret, Ellen, Agnes and Margaret.
I have never studied this family, but just in terms of common practice I >>> am aware of several families from this period that used the same name
for two siblings. As such, a conclusion that they "would not have named
two daughters Margaret" is not as strong as it might seem.
taf
TAF,
Thank you for replying. That assumption was made after looking at other
research such as Royal Ancestry where the daughters were explicitly named
sans Margaret. They were Agnes, Ellen, Isabel. Douglas Richardson states
the husbands of each as well, in the Royal Ancestry citation above. You
certainly make a very fair point about jumping to conclusions prematurely
though.
IrCOm on pretty solid ground on my original question about MargaretrCOs
parentage. Several different sources seem to point to the fourth daughter
Margaret being the daughter of William Harington, KG of Farleton and later >> Hornby and Margaret Neville.
The only other question still lingering is concerning whether Margaret
Harington Braddyll was the mother of Richard BraddyllrCOs two sons, John the >> heir and William a clerk.
So far, I am leaning towards discounting DugdalerCOs much later visitation of
1664-5 where he asserts Johanna 2nd dau of rCa.. was the mother of both.
There were a couple of derivative works that came from that pedigree as
well. FlowerrCOs Visitation of 1567 points to Margaret Harington Braddyll. >> Please correct me if I am wrong, but generally if two sources conflict,
shouldnrCOt more weight be given to the source made closer to the lifetime of
the event?
I am searching for property, wills, marriage records, etc to support or
refute this hypothesis. If anyone can point me to some sources, I would
appreciate it. I am still learning about good sources for this era of
genealogy.
I have been relying on Douglas Richardson, Gary Boyd Roberts, Histories,
Google searches and the various resources found on this site
https://sites.google.com/site/cochoit/medieval-genealogy-resources/
IrCOm sure there are others out there that others in this group can direct me
to.
There is no substitute for checking primary sources when possible -
relying on secondary literature, some of which in turn relies only on secondary sources, can lead to compounded misunderstanding and misinterpretation.
For the specific point about Joan or Margaret as mother of Richard Braddyll's sons, Farrer in VCH Lancaster (as linked upthread) provided several references from the Towneley manuscripts, C 8, 13, B 128-30;
Add. MS. 32104, no. 918. These may be contemporary sources, probably enlightening and likely to be more useful than printed material listed
in unspecific "welter" citations by Douglas Richardson and others -
often just the unsourced opinions of 18th and 19th century antiquarians, whose methodology can be opaque and accuracy erratic.
The Towneley manuscripts are mostly in the British Library, some in the Bodleian at Oxford, and many of them in copies (made by Farrer himself)
in Manchester. I doubt that anyone has discussed these particular
references in print before. Tracing any interest (or lack thereof) that Braddyll descendants may have had in Harington/Nevill estates could also shed light on the question.
Peter Stewart
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