From Newsgroup: sci.space.policy

Elon Musk wants to colonize Mars soon. I am wondering what would be a
good design for a Martian colony. I am assuming the following:
1. Colonists will want to have private quarters (where others canrCOt go without consent).
2. Colonists will want to be able to evacuate their habitat rapidly (in
case of fire for instance). And do so from two opposite ends of their
habitat. Here rapidly probably means without putting on a spacesuit,
unless one can design a spacesuit you can slip into in about 2 seconds.
3. Point 2, applies even if there is a party in the private quarters of
a colonist (therefore, you canrCOt just have a shelter sufficient for the number of inhabitants of a given habitat).
4. Colonist will want to be able to go see other colonist or go to work without having to put on spacesuits.


My solution, and I am not sure it really is a good one, is to make
habitats in pairs. Have two habitats in a big tube, and a passageway
between the two habitats. The tube as a whole is pressurized, so you
donrCOt need an airlock to get out of a habitat. You would have airlocks
at the end of each tube. So once everyone is evacuated from the tube,
you can depressurize to put out a fire. You also need to have sufficient ventilation capabilities in the passageway. If there is a fire in one
habitat, there is likely to be some smoke going into the passageway. You donrCOt want to have to depressurize to get rid of smoke every time
someone burns his toasts.

Workspaces (offices, labs, machine shops etc) would be similarly paired
in tubes, albeit possibly much bigger tubes.

You can link the habitat tubes by the ends and sometimes on hubs. It
would be important to have a few hubs, not just a big loop with all the habitats in a circle. Having crisscrossing rCLstreetsrCY allow you to go anywhere even if you have a section that is closed because of a fire,
smoke or what not.

What do you think? How would you design a colony?


Alain Fournier
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From Newsgroup: sci.space.policy

Alain Fournier suggested that ...

Elon Musk wants to colonize Mars soon. I am wondering what would be a good design for a Martian colony. I am assuming the following:
1. Colonists will want to have private quarters (where others canrCOt go without consent).
2. Colonists will want to be able to evacuate their habitat rapidly (in case of fire for instance). And do so from two opposite ends of their habitat. Here rapidly probably means without putting on a spacesuit, unless one can design a spacesuit you can slip into in about 2 seconds.
3. Point 2, applies even if there is a party in the private quarters of a colonist (therefore, you canrCOt just have a shelter sufficient for the number
of inhabitants of a given habitat).
4. Colonist will want to be able to go see other colonist or go to work without having to put on spacesuits.

My solution, and I am not sure it really is a good one, is to make habitats in pairs. Have two habitats in a big tube, and a passageway between the two habitats. The tube as a whole is pressurized, so you donrCOt need an airlock to
get out of a habitat. You would have airlocks at the end of each tube. So once everyone is evacuated from the tube, you can depressurize to put out a fire. You also need to have sufficient ventilation capabilities in the passageway. If there is a fire in one habitat, there is likely to be some smoke going into the passageway. You donrCOt want to have to depressurize to get rid of smoke every time someone burns his toasts.

Workspaces (offices, labs, machine shops etc) would be similarly paired in tubes, albeit possibly much bigger tubes.

You can link the habitat tubes by the ends and sometimes on hubs. It would be
important to have a few hubs, not just a big loop with all the habitats in a circle. Having crisscrossing rCLstreetsrCY allow you to go anywhere even if you
have a section that is closed because of a fire, smoke or what not.

What do you think? How would you design a colony?

Alain Fournier

I expect that the first buildings will be very basic, like ISS modules.
The 2nd generation (of buildings) will probably build around the 1st,
perhaps connected by a hub. During both of these phases, most
facilities will be communal, with perhaps "private" sleeping closets,
but maybe also barracks style bunking. But of course, these will be
the advance team and not the Mayflower passengers.

It won't be before the 3rd generation that "apartments" will be built,
and that will probably be as a row of suites on a common hallway;
perhaps a hallway in front or in back. "Houses" will probably be a
long way off.

/dps
--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.
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From Newsgroup: sci.space.policy

Snidely asserted that:

Alain Fournier suggested that ...

Elon Musk wants to colonize Mars soon. I am wondering what would be a good >> design for a Martian colony. I am assuming the following:
1. Colonists will want to have private quarters (where others canrCOt go
without consent).
2. Colonists will want to be able to evacuate their habitat rapidly (in
case of fire for instance). And do so from two opposite ends of their
habitat. Here rapidly probably means without putting on a spacesuit, unless >> one can design a spacesuit you can slip into in about 2 seconds.
3. Point 2, applies even if there is a party in the private quarters of a >> colonist (therefore, you canrCOt just have a shelter sufficient for the
number of inhabitants of a given habitat).
4. Colonist will want to be able to go see other colonist or go to work
without having to put on spacesuits.


My solution, and I am not sure it really is a good one, is to make habitats >> in pairs. Have two habitats in a big tube, and a passageway between the two >> habitats. The tube as a whole is pressurized, so you donrCOt need an airlock
to get out of a habitat. You would have airlocks at the end of each tube. >> So once everyone is evacuated from the tube, you can depressurize to put
out a fire. You also need to have sufficient ventilation capabilities in
the passageway. If there is a fire in one habitat, there is likely to be
some smoke going into the passageway. You donrCOt want to have to
depressurize to get rid of smoke every time someone burns his toasts.

Workspaces (offices, labs, machine shops etc) would be similarly paired in >> tubes, albeit possibly much bigger tubes.

You can link the habitat tubes by the ends and sometimes on hubs. It would >> be important to have a few hubs, not just a big loop with all the habitats >> in a circle. Having crisscrossing rCLstreetsrCY allow you to go anywhere even
if you have a section that is closed because of a fire, smoke or what not. >>
What do you think? How would you design a colony?


Alain Fournier

I expect that the first buildings will be very basic, like ISS modules. The 2nd generation (of buildings) will probably build around the 1st, perhaps connected by a hub. During both of these phases, most facilities will be communal, with perhaps "private" sleeping closets, but maybe also barracks style bunking. But of course, these will be the advance team and not the Mayflower passengers.

It won't be before the 3rd generation that "apartments" will be built, and that will probably be as a row of suites on a common hallway; perhaps a hallway in front or in back.

where "or" means "and"

"Houses" will probably be a long way off.

I don't see "houses" before in situ building materials are in use,
which will probably require a significant support crew even if
fabrication is primarily with robotic equipment.

Your concern about suitless evacuation will probably involve
pressurized garages for excursion vehicles.

/dps
--
There's nothing inherently wrong with Big Data. What matters, as it
does for Arnold Lund in California or Richard Rothman in Baltimore, are
the questions -- old and new, good and bad -- this newest tool lets us
ask. (R. Lerhman, CSMonitor.com)
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From Newsgroup: sci.space.policy

On 2024-10-07 6:05 p.m., Snidely wrote:

Snidely asserted that:

Alain Fournier suggested that ...

Elon Musk wants to colonize Mars soon. I am wondering what would be a
good design for a Martian colony. I am assuming the following:
1. Colonists will want to have private quarters (where others canrCOt
go without consent).
2. Colonists will want to be able to evacuate their habitat rapidly
(in case of fire for instance). And do so from two opposite ends of
their habitat. Here rapidly probably means without putting on a
spacesuit, unless one can design a spacesuit you can slip into in
about 2 seconds.
3. Point 2, applies even if there is a party in the private quarters
of a colonist (therefore, you canrCOt just have a shelter sufficient
for the number of inhabitants of a given habitat).
4. Colonist will want to be able to go see other colonist or go to
work without having to put on spacesuits.


My solution, and I am not sure it really is a good one, is to make
habitats in pairs. Have two habitats in a big tube, and a passageway
between the two habitats. The tube as a whole is pressurized, so you
donrCOt need an airlock to get out of a habitat. You would have
airlocks at the end of each tube. So once everyone is evacuated from
the tube, you can depressurize to put out a fire. You also need to
have sufficient ventilation capabilities in the passageway. If there
is a fire in one habitat, there is likely to be some smoke going into
the passageway. You donrCOt want to have to depressurize to get rid of
smoke every time someone burns his toasts.

Workspaces (offices, labs, machine shops etc) would be similarly
paired in tubes, albeit possibly much bigger tubes.

You can link the habitat tubes by the ends and sometimes on hubs. It
would be important to have a few hubs, not just a big loop with all
the habitats in a circle. Having crisscrossing rCLstreetsrCY allow you to >>> go anywhere even if you have a section that is closed because of a
fire, smoke or what not.

What do you think? How would you design a colony?


Alain Fournier

I expect that the first buildings will be very basic, like ISS
modules.-a The 2nd generation (of buildings) will probably build around
the 1st, perhaps connected by a hub.-a During both of these phases,
most facilities will be communal, with perhaps "private" sleeping
closets, but maybe also barracks style bunking.-a But of course, these
will be the advance team and not the Mayflower passengers.

Yes I agree. I was thinking about "the Mayflower passengers" not the
advance team. Musk seems to want to get there fast.

It won't be before the 3rd generation that "apartments" will be built,
and that will probably be as a row of suites on a common hallway;
perhaps a hallway in front or in back.

where "or" means "and"

"Houses" will probably be a long way off.

I don't see "houses" before in situ building materials are in use, which will probably require a significant support crew even if fabrication is primarily with robotic equipment.

Your concern about suitless evacuation will probably involve pressurized garages for excursion vehicles.

I'm not sure what you mean with that. If you have a party at home and a
fire breaks out, not all guests will have their excursion vehicles in
your garage (in fact there is a good chance that not all guests will
have an excursion vehicle at all). You might not want to plan on
everyone getting into the vehicle in the garage. Also, if you evacuate
via one excursion vehicle for many people, you have to make sure that
smoke does not fill the vehicle while boarding.

I prefer the hallway evacuation method. A long hallway with sections
separated by "sealable" doors. If some smoke gets in the hallway, you go
to the next section. By a sealable door I mean that not much smoke would
cross the door. Other doors would be air tight meaning you can
depressurise one side of the door but not the other side. Sealable doors
would be openable and closable as fast as normal Earthly doors therefore suitable as an escape route. Airtight doors allow to extinguish fires by depressurising a section once everyone is out.


Alain Fournier

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From Newsgroup: sci.space.policy

On 2024-10-04 20:16, Alain Fournier wrote:

Elon Musk wants to colonize Mars soon. I am wondering what would be a
good design for a Martian colony. I am assuming the following:
1. Colonists will want to have private quarters (where others canrCOt go without consent).
2. Colonists will want to be able to evacuate their habitat rapidly (in
case of fire for instance). And do so from two opposite ends of their habitat. Here rapidly probably means without putting on a spacesuit,
unless one can design a spacesuit you can slip into in about 2 seconds.
3. Point 2, applies even if there is a party in the private quarters of
a colonist (therefore, you canrCOt just have a shelter sufficient for the number of inhabitants of a given habitat).
4. Colonist will want to be able to go see other colonist or go to work without having to put on spacesuits.

What comes to my mind is:

- Private quarters or apartments are implemented as large rovers, each
with its own (perhaps short-term) life support and power.

- These "mobile apartments" are docked to the outside of a hub. The hub
can be a straight hallway or a ring (a torus) or a larger structure with
more room. There would probably be underground rooms under the hub, too,
for radiation shielding.

- The hub has long-term life support and power supplies and, when large enough, contains shared facilities like meeting rooms, laboratories, workshops, restaurants, swimming pools.

If one mobile apartment has an emergency, such as a fire, the occupants
escape into the hub, the docking doors to the apartment are closed, and perhaps the unoccupied apartment is undocked and moved to a safe distance.

If the hub has an emergency, the occupants retreat into their
apartments, close the docking doors, and either wait it out or undock
and move away and perhaps dock to another hub.

The hubs at a certain site should have enough free docking ports, in
total, to accommodate all apartments from any one hub that fails. Or if
there are too few free docking ports, apartments could take turns to
connect to a hub and resupply. Or apartments could have two docking
ports, perhaps one at each end, letting several apartments daisy-chain
to the same hub port.

The several hubs at a given site could be interconnected with tunnels to
allow people to move about and mingle without moving the apartments. Or
some apartments could be designed as public transport and make regular
trips between hubs.

If an apartment needs to take a longer trip, for which its own life
support and power are insufficient, it could tow or couple to a support vehicle, as in "The Martian". Perhaps there could be "wagon trains" of apartments all supported by a large "locomotive" unit...

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From Newsgroup: sci.space.policy

On 2024-10-04 17:16:29 +0000, Alain Fournier said:

Elon Musk wants to colonize Mars soon. I am wondering what would be a
good design for a Martian colony. I am assuming the following:
1. Colonists will want to have private quarters (where others canrCOt
go without consent).
2. Colonists will want to be able to evacuate their habitat rapidly (in
case of fire for instance). And do so from two opposite ends of their habitat. Here rapidly probably means without putting on a spacesuit,
unless one can design a spacesuit you can slip into in about 2 seconds.
3. Point 2, applies even if there is a party in the private quarters of
a colonist (therefore, you canrCOt just have a shelter sufficient for
the number of inhabitants of a given habitat).
4. Colonist will want to be able to go see other colonist or go to work without having to put on spacesuits.

My solution, and I am not sure it really is a good one, is to make
habitats in pairs. Have two habitats in a big tube, and a passageway
between the two habitats. The tube as a whole is pressurized, so you
donrCOt need an airlock to get out of a habitat. You would have
airlocks at the end of each tube. So once everyone is evacuated from
the tube, you can depressurize to put out a fire. You also need to have sufficient ventilation capabilities in the passageway. If there is a
fire in one habitat, there is likely to be some smoke going into the passageway. You donrCOt want to have to depressurize to get rid of
smoke every time someone burns his toasts.

Workspaces (offices, labs, machine shops etc) would be similarly paired
in tubes, albeit possibly much bigger tubes.

You can link the habitat tubes by the ends and sometimes on hubs. It
would be important to have a few hubs, not just a big loop with all the habitats in a circle. Having crisscrossing rCLstreetsrCY allow you to
go anywhere even if you have a section that is closed because of a
fire, smoke or what not.

What do you think? How would you design a colony?

The main problems on Mars are weather and the same as on Moon.
Therefore the design should be based on the design of colonies
on Moon and experiences from them.
--
Mikko

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From Newsgroup: sci.space.policy

Watch this space, where Alain Fournier advised that...

On 2024-10-07 6:05 p.m., Snidely wrote:

Snidely asserted that:

Alain Fournier suggested that ...

Elon Musk wants to colonize Mars soon. I am wondering what would be a >>>> good design for a Martian colony. I am assuming the following:
1. Colonists will want to have private quarters (where others canrCOt go >>>> without consent).
2. Colonists will want to be able to evacuate their habitat rapidly (in >>>> case of fire for instance). And do so from two opposite ends of their >>>> habitat. Here rapidly probably means without putting on a spacesuit,
unless one can design a spacesuit you can slip into in about 2 seconds. >>>> 3. Point 2, applies even if there is a party in the private quarters of a >>>> colonist (therefore, you canrCOt just have a shelter sufficient for the >>>> number of inhabitants of a given habitat).
4. Colonist will want to be able to go see other colonist or go to work >>>> without having to put on spacesuits.


My solution, and I am not sure it really is a good one, is to make
habitats in pairs. Have two habitats in a big tube, and a passageway
between the two habitats. The tube as a whole is pressurized, so you
donrCOt need an airlock to get out of a habitat. You would have airlocks at
the end of each tube. So once everyone is evacuated from the tube, you >>>> can depressurize to put out a fire. You also need to have sufficient
ventilation capabilities in the passageway. If there is a fire in one >>>> habitat, there is likely to be some smoke going into the passageway. You >>>> donrCOt want to have to depressurize to get rid of smoke every time someone
burns his toasts.

Workspaces (offices, labs, machine shops etc) would be similarly paired >>>> in tubes, albeit possibly much bigger tubes.

You can link the habitat tubes by the ends and sometimes on hubs. It
would be important to have a few hubs, not just a big loop with all the >>>> habitats in a circle. Having crisscrossing rCLstreetsrCY allow you to go >>>> anywhere even if you have a section that is closed because of a fire, >>>> smoke or what not.

What do you think? How would you design a colony?


Alain Fournier

I expect that the first buildings will be very basic, like ISS modules.-a >>> The 2nd generation (of buildings) will probably build around the 1st,
perhaps connected by a hub.-a During both of these phases, most facilities >>> will be communal, with perhaps "private" sleeping closets, but maybe also >>> barracks style bunking.-a But of course, these will be the advance team and
not the Mayflower passengers.

Yes I agree. I was thinking about "the Mayflower passengers" not the advance team. Musk seems to want to get there fast.

It won't be before the 3rd generation that "apartments" will be built, and >>> that will probably be as a row of suites on a common hallway; perhaps a >>> hallway in front or in back.

where "or" means "and"

"Houses" will probably be a long way off.

I don't see "houses" before in situ building materials are in use, which
will probably require a significant support crew even if fabrication is
primarily with robotic equipment.

Your concern about suitless evacuation will probably involve pressurized
garages for excursion vehicles.

I'm not sure what you mean with that. If you have a party at home and a fire breaks out, not all guests will have their excursion vehicles in your garage (in fact there is a good chance that not all guests will have an excursion vehicle at all). You might not want to plan on everyone getting into the vehicle in the garage. Also, if you evacuate via one excursion vehicle for many people, you have to make sure that smoke does not fill the vehicle while
boarding.

Yeah, the suggestion needs a little more bike shedding, but then I
still don't think individual houses are likely for a long time, because
on Mars you don't just chop down a few trees to make a log cabin, or
bundle reeds together.

I think the resources required will dictate that the colony will spend
a long time growing as underground "domes" that serve as apartment
building and workshop, and that the apartment units will open on the "commons", and may include an evacuation hallway on the "rim" of the
dome. Don't read this as saying the "dome" will be a hemisphere; I
think that shape will only be for specialized units, and that a
rectilinear or grid layout will be common.

The evacuation hallway could be where cables, air, water, and sewer are routed, with additional trunks in sections of the "dome". Individual
units may have sealable doors that air-tight enough for emergency
purposes without necessarily being a long-term sealed hatch (consider
the airlocks on the ISS for examples of the latter).

I certainly don't expect the SpaceX illustration of a giant transparent hemispherical dome enclosing green spaces and building ... at least not
in the first century of colonization.

I prefer the hallway evacuation method. A long hallway with sections separated by "sealable" doors. If some smoke gets in the hallway, you go to the next section. By a sealable door I mean that not much smoke would cross the door. Other doors would be air tight meaning you can depressurise one side of the door but not the other side. Sealable doors would be openable and
closable as fast as normal Earthly doors therefore suitable as an escape route. Airtight doors allow to extinguish fires by depressurising a section once everyone is out.

Alain Fournier

/dps
--
Hurray or Huzzah?
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