From:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm
Physicists canrCOt agree on how the Universe works
Date:
September 13, 2026
Source:
University of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute
Summary:
A massive worldwide survey of physicists has revealed surprisingly little
agreement about some of the universerCOs biggest mysteries.
No majority backed the standard cosmological model, a leading explanation for
dark matter, or any single theory of quantum gravity.
One area of stronger agreement stood out: 68% said the Big Bang does not
necessarily represent the beginning of time.
Researchers say the divisions show just how alive and unsettled the frontiers
of physics remain.
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
From:
-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm
Physicists canrCOt agree on how the Universe works
Date:
-a September 13, 2026
Source:
-a University of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute
Summary:
-a A massive worldwide survey of physicists has revealed surprisingly
little
-a agreement about some of the universerCOs biggest mysteries.
-a No majority backed the standard cosmological model, a leading
explanation for
-a dark matter, or any single theory of quantum gravity.
-a One area of stronger agreement stood out: 68% said the Big Bang does
not
-a necessarily represent the beginning of time.
-a Researchers say the divisions show just how alive and unsettled the
frontiers
-a of physics remain.
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any
evidence that gravity is quantised.
Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote:However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some >way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
From:
-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm
Physicists canrCOt agree on how the Universe works
Date:
-a September 13, 2026
Source:
-a University of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute
Summary:
-a A massive worldwide survey of physicists has revealed surprisingly
little
-a agreement about some of the universerCOs biggest mysteries.
-a No majority backed the standard cosmological model, a leading
explanation for
-a dark matter, or any single theory of quantum gravity.
-a One area of stronger agreement stood out: 68% said the Big Bang does >>> not
-a necessarily represent the beginning of time.
-a Researchers say the divisions show just how alive and unsettled the
frontiers
-a of physics remain.
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know
about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any
evidence that gravity is quantised.
its effects take place.
However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before
its effects take place.
Bill Sloman wrote:
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before
From:
-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm
Physicists canrCOt agree on how the Universe works
Date:
-a September 13, 2026
Source:
-a University of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute
Summary:
-a A massive worldwide survey of physicists has revealed surprisingly
little
-a agreement about some of the universerCOs biggest mysteries.
-a No majority backed the standard cosmological model, a leading
explanation for
-a dark matter, or any single theory of quantum gravity.
-a One area of stronger agreement stood out: 68% said the Big Bang
does not
-a necessarily represent the beginning of time.
-a Researchers say the divisions show just how alive and unsettled the
frontiers
-a of physics remain.
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know
about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any
evidence that gravity is quantised.
its effects take place.
Bill Sloman wrote:
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before
From:
-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm
Physicists canrCOt agree on how the Universe works
Date:
-a September 13, 2026
Source:
-a University of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute
Summary:
-a A massive worldwide survey of physicists has revealed surprisingly
little
-a agreement about some of the universerCOs biggest mysteries.
-a No majority backed the standard cosmological model, a leading
explanation for
-a dark matter, or any single theory of quantum gravity.
-a One area of stronger agreement stood out: 68% said the Big Bang
does not
-a necessarily represent the beginning of time.
-a Researchers say the divisions show just how alive and unsettled the
frontiers
-a of physics remain.
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know
about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any
evidence that gravity is quantised.
its effects take place.
On 13/09/2026 11:16 PM, Lane W wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote:
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some
From:
-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm
Physicists canrCOt agree on how the Universe works
Date:
-a September 13, 2026
Source:
-a University of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute
Summary:
-a A massive worldwide survey of physicists has revealed surprisingly >>>> little
-a agreement about some of the universerCOs biggest mysteries.
-a No majority backed the standard cosmological model, a leading
explanation for
-a dark matter, or any single theory of quantum gravity.
-a One area of stronger agreement stood out: 68% said the Big Bang
does not
-a necessarily represent the beginning of time.
-a Researchers say the divisions show just how alive and unsettled the >>>> frontiers
-a of physics remain.
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know
about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any
evidence that gravity is quantised.
way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before
its effects take place.
That seems to indicate it's /already there/ when any given measurement starts. Do you think gravity is prescient?
And some of the nay-sayers claim gravity travels at the speed of light-
ish. I don't believe them, either.
And there are some more gaps in the standard theories about gravity, but
I'll let the nay-sayers guess those. After all, I don't have to teach
them anything.
Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote:However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
From:
|e-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm
Physicists can|ore4raot agree on how the Universe works
Date:
|e-a September 13, 2026
Source:
|e-a University of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute
Summary:
|e-a A massive worldwide survey of physicists has revealed surprisingly >>>> little
|e-a agreement about some of the universe|ore4raos biggest mysteries.
|e-a No majority backed the standard cosmological model, a leading
explanation for
|e-a dark matter, or any single theory of quantum gravity.
|e-a One area of stronger agreement stood out: 68% said the Big Bang does >>>> not
|e-a necessarily represent the beginning of time.
|e-a Researchers say the divisions show just how alive and unsettled the >>>> frontiers
|e-a of physics remain.
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know
about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any
evidence that gravity is quantised.
way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before
its effects take place.
Gravity propages at the speed of light according to 'science':
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=speed+of+gravity%3
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote:However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some >>> way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
From:
-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm
Physicists canrCOt agree on how the Universe works
Date:
-a September 13, 2026
Source:
-a University of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute
Summary:
-a A massive worldwide survey of physicists has revealed surprisingly >>>>> little
-a agreement about some of the universerCOs biggest mysteries.
-a No majority backed the standard cosmological model, a leading
explanation for
-a dark matter, or any single theory of quantum gravity.
-a One area of stronger agreement stood out: 68% said the Big Bang does >>>>> not
-a necessarily represent the beginning of time.
-a Researchers say the divisions show just how alive and unsettled the >>>>> frontiers
-a of physics remain.
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know >>>> about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any
evidence that gravity is quantised.
its effects take place.
Gravity propages at the speed of light according to 'science':
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=speed+of+gravity%3
I maintain that this is still remarkable. Light only travels at light speed
- through a void
- if it is not blocked by an obstacle
Clearly, gravity doesn't suffer the same visual restrictions.
Note, it's not gravity travels at light speed minus a small constant, it's
- gravity travels at exactly light speed, no less
[.]]]
"Scientists Have Slowed Light Down To An Embarrassing 38 Miles Per
Hour"
Bill Sloman wrote:
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
From:about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any
-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm
Physicists canrCOt agree on how the Universe works
[...]
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know
evidence that gravity is quantised.
However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before
its effects take place.
It is fair for beliefs about mysteries to be different.
More than 21 years ago various persons traveled for a physics talk. A
senior physicist asked a student in this hosting country about what
she was studying. She said that she was taking lectures on quantum
gravity, so this senior physicist said to her that there is not a
theory of quantum gravity.
Jan Panteltje wrote:
However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some >>> way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before
its effects take place.
Gravity propages at the speed of light according to 'science':
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=speed+of+gravity%3
I maintain that this is still remarkable. Light only travels at light speed
- through a void
- if it is not blocked by an obstacle
Clearly, gravity doesn't suffer the same visual restrictions.
Note, it's not gravity travels at light speed minus a small constant, it's
- gravity travels at exactly light speed, no less
Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote:However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some >>> way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
From:
|e-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm
Physicists can|ore4raot agree on how the Universe works
Date:
|e-a September 13, 2026
Source:
|e-a University of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute
Summary:
|e-a A massive worldwide survey of physicists has revealed surprisingly >>>>> little
|e-a agreement about some of the universe|ore4raos biggest mysteries. >>>>> |e-a No majority backed the standard cosmological model, a leading
explanation for
|e-a dark matter, or any single theory of quantum gravity.
|e-a One area of stronger agreement stood out: 68% said the Big Bang does >>>>> not
|e-a necessarily represent the beginning of time.
|e-a Researchers say the divisions show just how alive and unsettled the >>>>> frontiers
|e-a of physics remain.
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know >>>> about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any
evidence that gravity is quantised.
its effects take place.
Gravity propages at the speed of light according to 'science':
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=speed+of+gravity%3
I maintain that this is still remarkable. Light only travels at light speed
- through a void
- if it is not blocked by an obstacle
Clearly, gravity doesn't suffer the same visual restrictions.
Note, it's not gravity travels at light speed minus a small constant, it's
- gravity travels at exactly light speed, no less
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 12:32:14 -0600, Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote:However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some >>>> way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before >>>> its effects take place.
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
From:
-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm
Physicists canrCOt agree on how the Universe works
Date:
-a September 13, 2026
Source:
-a University of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute
Summary:
-a A massive worldwide survey of physicists has revealed surprisingly >>>>>> little
-a agreement about some of the universerCOs biggest mysteries.
-a No majority backed the standard cosmological model, a leading
explanation for
-a dark matter, or any single theory of quantum gravity.
-a One area of stronger agreement stood out: 68% said the Big Bang does >>>>>> not
-a necessarily represent the beginning of time.
-a Researchers say the divisions show just how alive and unsettled the >>>>>> frontiers
-a of physics remain.
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know >>>>> about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any
evidence that gravity is quantised.
Gravity propages at the speed of light according to 'science':
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=speed+of+gravity%3
I maintain that this is still remarkable. Light only travels at light speed >>
- through a void
- if it is not blocked by an obstacle
Clearly, gravity doesn't suffer the same visual restrictions.
Note, it's not gravity travels at light speed minus a small constant, it's
- gravity travels at exactly light speed, no less
"Scientists Have Slowed Light Down To An Embarrassing 38 Miles Per
Hour" ><https://www.iflscience.com/scientists-have-slowed-light-down-to-an-embarrassing-38-miles-per-hour-75894>
<https://www.nature.com/articles/17561>
Lane W wrote in sci.physics, sci.astro, sci.electronics.design:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[*facepalm*]
Jan Panteltje wrote:
However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some >>>> way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before >>>> its effects take place.
Gravity propages at the speed of light according to 'science':
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=speed+of+gravity%3
"We all have susceptibility to bias. Search engines on the Internet are
/the epitome/ of confirmation bias. And you're gonna use /that/ as
evidence that you're /correct?/ /No./"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist and science communicator
(in his "MasterClass" trailer,
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io6QdGcoWMU&t=1m12s>)
I maintain that this is still remarkable. Light only travels at light speed >>
- through a void
- if it is not blocked by an obstacle
First of all, read what you wrote: You are effectively claiming that it is possible for light to not propagate at its own speed. I hope you can agree that your statement is ridiculous nonsense.
Lane W wrote in sci.physics, sci.astro, sci.electronics.design:
[*facepalm*]
Bill Sloman wrote:
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
From:evidence that gravity is quantised.
-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm
Physicists canrCOt agree on how the Universe works
[...]
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know >>> about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any
However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some
way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before
its effects take place.
First of all, there is no "gravity"; strike that term from your physics vocabulary. The correct term is _gravitation_, and it is an effect itself.
Second, you are wrong.
If gravitation would properly be described as the consequence of a force
that is acting instantaneously at a distance as Newton's theory indicated to some (Newton himself was not convinced of that; to him it sufficed that his theory worked, and he famously refused to make [up] hypotheses as to how or why ["hypotheses non fingo"]), then this would violate causality. And example that shows this is a thought experiment in which Sol suddenly disappearing: an observer passing by the Sol System would see the planets
and other Sol System objects suddenly propagating outwards in straight lines even though they would be oblivious to the fact that Sol would have disappeared because the still see light that Sol emitted before.
General relativity resolves this problem and other problems of Newton's theory by postulating that gravitation is not the consequence of a force,
but _a_ consequence of the curvature of spacetime, and that changes in spacetime curvature would not propagate faster than c, but exactly at c. Supporting evidence for that assumption is the measured phase speed of gravitational waves that are emitted when the change in spacetime curvature is not spherically symmetric, so especially when two objects with large masses are in a close orbit around each other, like two black holes or two neutron stars before they merge.
Veritasium: There Is Something Faster Than Light <https://youtu.be/NIk_0AW5hFU?si=NcJOIWKvsCkjtjZo&start=57&end=187>
Also contained in my public playlist "General Relativity": <https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL41EYJuJ5YuDn3d13ryZwpzGBXewXa9AH>
F'up2 <news:sci.physics>
there's no explanation for why it happens that I've come across.
- As a brief tangent, there actually is a famous "hole problem" in
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 12:32:14 -0600, Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote:However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some >>>>> way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before >>>>> its effects take place.
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
From:
-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm >>>>>>>
Physicists canrCOt agree on how the Universe works
Date:
-a September 13, 2026
Source:
-a University of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute
Summary:
-a A massive worldwide survey of physicists has revealed surprisingly >>>>>>> little
-a agreement about some of the universerCOs biggest mysteries.
-a No majority backed the standard cosmological model, a leading >>>>>>> explanation for
-a dark matter, or any single theory of quantum gravity.
-a One area of stronger agreement stood out: 68% said the Big Bang does >>>>>>> not
-a necessarily represent the beginning of time.
-a Researchers say the divisions show just how alive and unsettled the >>>>>>> frontiers
-a of physics remain.
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know >>>>>> about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any
evidence that gravity is quantised.
Gravity propages at the speed of light according to 'science':
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=speed+of+gravity%3
I maintain that this is still remarkable. Light only travels at light speed >>>
- through a void
- if it is not blocked by an obstacle
Clearly, gravity doesn't suffer the same visual restrictions.
Note, it's not gravity travels at light speed minus a small constant, it's >>>
- gravity travels at exactly light speed, no less
"Scientists Have Slowed Light Down To An Embarrassing 38 Miles Per
Hour" >><https://www.iflscience.com/scientists-have-slowed-light-down-to-an-embarrassing-38-miles-per-hour-75894>
<https://www.nature.com/articles/17561>
Nice, now test if for gravity speed?
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
Lane W wrote in sci.physics, sci.astro, sci.electronics.design:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[*facepalm*]
Jan Panteltje wrote:
However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some >>>>> way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before >>>>> its effects take place.
Gravity propages at the speed of light according to 'science':
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=speed+of+gravity%3
"We all have susceptibility to bias. Search engines on the Internet are >> /the epitome/ of confirmation bias. And you're gonna use /that/ as
evidence that you're /correct?/ /No./"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist and science communicator
(in his "MasterClass" trailer,
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io6QdGcoWMU&t=1m12s>)
I maintain that this is still remarkable. Light only travels at light speed >>>
- through a void
- if it is not blocked by an obstacle
First of all, read what you wrote: You are effectively claiming that it is >> possible for light to not propagate at its own speed. I hope you can agree >> that your statement is ridiculous nonsense.
I am sorry I confused you.
Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote or quoted:
There are several /holes/ in the Einsteinian universe. One I'll mention
right now is that the /space time curvature/ is a theoretical model, and
Albert Einstein's General Theory of Relativity is a mathematical
and theoretical model.
However, in science, a model isn't a guess
- it is a framework that makes highly precise, verifiable predic-
tions. Einstein's model of space-time curvature has been proven
right by real-world observations for over a century.
there's no explanation for why it happens that I've come across.
Physics does not explain /why/ something happens; it merely describes
/how/ something happens. It was born when Galileo did not ask,
"Why does the stone fall?", but, "How does the stone fall?".
Lane W wrote in sci.physics, sci.astro, sci.electronics.design:
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
Lane W wrote in sci.physics, sci.astro, sci.electronics.design:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[*facepalm*]
Jan Panteltje wrote:
However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some >>>>>> way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before >>>>>> its effects take place.
Gravity propages at the speed of light according to 'science':
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=speed+of+gravity%3
"We all have susceptibility to bias. Search engines on the Internet are
/the epitome/ of confirmation bias. And you're gonna use /that/ as >>> evidence that you're /correct?/ /No./"
--Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist and science communicator
(in his "MasterClass" trailer,
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io6QdGcoWMU&t=1m12s>)
I maintain that this is still remarkable. Light only travels at light speed
- through a void
- if it is not blocked by an obstacle
First of all, read what you wrote: You are effectively claiming that it is >>> possible for light to not propagate at its own speed. I hope you can agree >>> that your statement is ridiculous nonsense.
I am sorry I confused you.
LOL. I have studied (Astro)physics. I am not confused, _you_ are.
Read _all_ that I wrote. And stop that mindless crossposting (without Followup-To)!
*facepalm*
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 08:26:21 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 12:32:14 -0600, Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote:However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some >>>>>> way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before >>>>>> its effects take place.
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
From:
-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm >>>>>>>>
Physicists canrCOt agree on how the Universe works
Date:
-a September 13, 2026
Source:
-a University of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute
Summary:
-a A massive worldwide survey of physicists has revealed surprisingly >>>>>>>> little
-a agreement about some of the universerCOs biggest mysteries. >>>>>>>> -a No majority backed the standard cosmological model, a leading >>>>>>>> explanation for
-a dark matter, or any single theory of quantum gravity.
-a One area of stronger agreement stood out: 68% said the Big Bang does
not
-a necessarily represent the beginning of time.
-a Researchers say the divisions show just how alive and unsettled the >>>>>>>> frontiers
-a of physics remain.
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know >>>>>>> about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any >>>>>>> evidence that gravity is quantised.
Gravity propages at the speed of light according to 'science':
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=speed+of+gravity%3
I maintain that this is still remarkable. Light only travels at light speed >>>>
- through a void
- if it is not blocked by an obstacle
Clearly, gravity doesn't suffer the same visual restrictions.
Note, it's not gravity travels at light speed minus a small constant, it's >>>>
- gravity travels at exactly light speed, no less
"Scientists Have Slowed Light Down To An Embarrassing 38 Miles Per
Hour" >>><https://www.iflscience.com/scientists-have-slowed-light-down-to-an-embarrassing-38-miles-per-hour-75894>
<https://www.nature.com/articles/17561>
Nice, now test if for gravity speed?
Sorry, but my kitchen laboratory is not equipped to make such
measurements.
I tried a few AI opinions. The consensus seems to be that the speed of >gravity is the same as light using gravitational waves when observing
a neutron star merger:
<https://chatgpt.com/share/6aa97510-741c-83e8-a408-5ab1d1aa58f5>
"In general relativity, gravity isn't treated as an instantaneous
force. Changes in the gravitational field - such as those produced
when massive objects accelerate - propagate through spacetime as >gravitational waves, which travel at c.
This was strongly confirmed observationally in 2017 when gravitational
waves from a neutron-star merger (GW170817) and electromagnetic
radiation from the same event arrived almost simultaneously after
traveling roughly 130 million light-years. The observations
constrained any difference between the speeds of gravity and light to
an extraordinarily small amount."
Unfortunately, the physics is also well above my pay scale.
"Why Do Gravitational Waves Travel Exactly At The Speed Of Light?" >https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2019/07/06/ask-ethan-why-do-gravitational-waves-travel-exactly-at-the-speed-of-light/
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 08:26:21 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 12:32:14 -0600, Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote:However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
From:
-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm >>>>>>>>>
Physicists canrCOt agree on how the Universe works
Date:
-a September 13, 2026
Source:
-a University of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute
Summary:
-a A massive worldwide survey of physicists has revealed surprisingly
little
-a agreement about some of the universerCOs biggest mysteries. >>>>>>>>> -a No majority backed the standard cosmological model, a leading >>>>>>>>> explanation for
-a dark matter, or any single theory of quantum gravity.
-a One area of stronger agreement stood out: 68% said the Big Bang does
not
-a necessarily represent the beginning of time.
-a Researchers say the divisions show just how alive and unsettled the
frontiers
-a of physics remain.
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know >>>>>>>> about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any >>>>>>>> evidence that gravity is quantised.
way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before >>>>>>> its effects take place.
Gravity propages at the speed of light according to 'science':
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=speed+of+gravity%3
I maintain that this is still remarkable. Light only travels at light speed
- through a void
- if it is not blocked by an obstacle
Clearly, gravity doesn't suffer the same visual restrictions.
Note, it's not gravity travels at light speed minus a small constant, it's
- gravity travels at exactly light speed, no less
"Scientists Have Slowed Light Down To An Embarrassing 38 Miles Per
Hour"
<https://www.iflscience.com/scientists-have-slowed-light-down-to-an-embarrassing-38-miles-per-hour-75894>
<https://www.nature.com/articles/17561>
Nice, now test if for gravity speed?
Sorry, but my kitchen laboratory is not equipped to make such
measurements.
Yes, but if somebody mentions 'gravitational waves' -
I have been to the beach, know about Moon tides ;-)
I tried a few AI opinions. The consensus seems to be that the speed of
gravity is the same as light using gravitational waves when observing
a neutron star merger:
<https://chatgpt.com/share/6aa97510-741c-83e8-a408-5ab1d1aa58f5>
"In general relativity, gravity isn't treated as an instantaneous
force. Changes in the gravitational field - such as those produced
when massive objects accelerate - propagate through spacetime as
gravitational waves, which travel at c.
This was strongly confirmed observationally in 2017 when gravitational
waves from a neutron-star merger (GW170817) and electromagnetic
radiation from the same event arrived almost simultaneously after
traveling roughly 130 million light-years. The observations
constrained any difference between the speeds of gravity and light to
an extraordinarily small amount."
Unfortunately, the physics is also well above my pay scale.
"Why Do Gravitational Waves Travel Exactly At The Speed Of Light?"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2019/07/06/ask-ethan-why-do-gravitational-waves-travel-exactly-at-the-speed-of-light/
Beautiful and very clear article! Thank you, keeping the link :-)
Experiments are essential to understanding.
Alber E. never did an experiment in his life, his mind was curved in a bad way.
He admitted though, at his death bed, that he failed to unite the EM and gravitational forces ..
From:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=did+albert+einstein+admit+he+failed+to+uinite+the+gravitational+and+EM+forces%3F
Yes, Albert Einstein acknowledged that his attempts to create a unified field
theory that combined gravity and electromagnetism were unsuccessful.
He dedicated the last decades of his life to this pursuit, but ultimately,
gravity remains beyond the reach of a unified field.
So Le Sage particles that can be modified to carry charge / EM radiation
is my simple explanation.
I declare it public domain
The No bell price I do not want, too much politics in that.
Simplicity is soooooooo cool!
Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote:However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some >>>> way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before >>>> its effects take place.
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
From:
|e-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm >>>>>>
Physicists can|ore4raot agree on how the Universe works
Date:
|e-a September 13, 2026
Source:
|e-a University of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute
Summary:
|e-a A massive worldwide survey of physicists has revealed surprisingly >>>>>> little
|e-a agreement about some of the universe|ore4raos biggest mysteries. >>>>>> |e-a No majority backed the standard cosmological model, a leading >>>>>> explanation for
|e-a dark matter, or any single theory of quantum gravity.
|e-a One area of stronger agreement stood out: 68% said the Big Bang does
not
|e-a necessarily represent the beginning of time.
|e-a Researchers say the divisions show just how alive and unsettled the >>>>>> frontiers
|e-a of physics remain.
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know >>>>> about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any
evidence that gravity is quantised.
Gravity propages at the speed of light according to 'science':
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=speed+of+gravity%3
I maintain that this is still remarkable. Light only travels at light speed >>
- through a void
- if it is not blocked by an obstacle
Clearly, gravity doesn't suffer the same visual restrictions.
Note, it's not gravity travels at light speed minus a small constant, it's >>
- gravity travels at exactly light speed, no less
Yes, good point, I wonder how they measured (or concluded) gravity moves at the
speed of light,
that would need an experiment using stuff (electronics for example and light that does travel at that speed
Bit circular reasoning.
But (as I think maybe the case) if light (EM radiation) is a 'state' of Le Sage
particles, then all you need to 'stop' light is change the state of those LS particles,
most matter can do that (by interacting with the EM field, glass a bit less for
some frequencies...
Also Le Sage explains clocks slowing down near a big object (like earth for example) as then more Le Sage particles are intercepted, 'matter' gets less compressed, the 'pendulum becomes 'longer', and 'time', slows down.
There must be a point where an object is so dense, big, heavy that all Le Sage
particles are intercepted
That gets rid of the divide by zero mamaticians like to try all the time,
and cover it up with re-normalization.
Making light is in Le Sage case nothing but adding some effect (state change) to the Le Sage particles, so simple.
Whatever way you look for all things, we need a 'mechanism' to understand and explain all this stuff.
An example:
Ohm's law.
No current in a vacuum (infinite resistance).
But then came the vacuum radio tube, was invented, and there WAS a current in the vacuum, specifically electrons flowing, violating Ohm's law.
In the same way gravity without LS particles or something is nothing but useless
babble,
There was this guy albert who was into it, and many still parrot his formulas space is curved and bla bla bla.
Bit like this:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8u8twm
I did read Feynman objected to Le Sage, but he used simple particles like stones in his model.
Even electrons are very complex and we do not know much about those.
Same for Le Sage particles..
Not a few weeks go by without CERN finding new things that conflict with what we know so far about elementary particles.
I see on https://www.sciencedaily.com
So, a MECHANISM is needed, without that ? nothing, kein stein.
I am open to anything better than Le Sage
So far have not seen any.
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
Lane W wrote in sci.physics, sci.astro, sci.electronics.design:
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
Lane W wrote in sci.physics, sci.astro, sci.electronics.design:
I maintain that this is still remarkable. Light only travels at light speed
- through a void
- if it is not blocked by an obstacle
First of all, read what you wrote: You are effectively claiming that it is >>>> possible for light to not propagate at its own speed. I hope you can agree
that your statement is ridiculous nonsense.
I am sorry I confused you.
LOL. I have studied (Astro)physics. I am not confused, _you_ are.
Read _all_ that I wrote. And stop that mindless crossposting (without
Followup-To)!
*facepalm*
Oh right, you're an elf. You don't abbreviate, acronym, or shorthand.
Have you seen my Elendil Wadswallow sock? It took some by storm and was
oft forged in the political newsgroups.
By the way, I thought you had grace or maybe charisma. How do you
explain the ugly 2 on the end of your post that this follows up? Mine
nicely has a 0 on the end. That's true grace, not blowing hot gases
about 'the speed of light' being whatever the brake fluid is you're
sending it through. Or is it the dustbin. 0, remember?
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 08:26:21 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 12:32:14 -0600, Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote:However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some >>>>>> way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before >>>>>> its effects take place.
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
From:
-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm >>>>>>>>
Physicists canrCOt agree on how the Universe works
Date:
-a September 13, 2026
Source:
-a University of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute
Summary:
-a A massive worldwide survey of physicists has revealed surprisingly >>>>>>>> little
-a agreement about some of the universerCOs biggest mysteries. >>>>>>>> -a No majority backed the standard cosmological model, a leading >>>>>>>> explanation for
-a dark matter, or any single theory of quantum gravity.
-a One area of stronger agreement stood out: 68% said the Big Bang does
not
-a necessarily represent the beginning of time.
-a Researchers say the divisions show just how alive and unsettled the >>>>>>>> frontiers
-a of physics remain.
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know >>>>>>> about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any >>>>>>> evidence that gravity is quantised.
Gravity propages at the speed of light according to 'science':
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=speed+of+gravity%3
I maintain that this is still remarkable. Light only travels at light speed >>>>
- through a void
- if it is not blocked by an obstacle
Clearly, gravity doesn't suffer the same visual restrictions.
Note, it's not gravity travels at light speed minus a small constant, it's >>>>
- gravity travels at exactly light speed, no less
"Scientists Have Slowed Light Down To An Embarrassing 38 Miles Per
Hour" >>><https://www.iflscience.com/scientists-have-slowed-light-down-to-an-embarrassing-38-miles-per-hour-75894>
<https://www.nature.com/articles/17561>
Nice, now test if for gravity speed?
Sorry, but my kitchen laboratory is not equipped to make such
measurements.
I tried a few AI opinions. The consensus seems to be that the speed of >gravity is the same as light using gravitational waves when observing
a neutron star merger:
<https://chatgpt.com/share/6aa97510-741c-83e8-a408-5ab1d1aa58f5>
"In general relativity, gravity isn't treated as an instantaneous
force. Changes in the gravitational field - such as those produced
when massive objects accelerate - propagate through spacetime as >gravitational waves, which travel at c.
This was strongly confirmed observationally in 2017 when gravitational
waves from a neutron-star merger (GW170817) and electromagnetic
radiation from the same event arrived almost simultaneously after
traveling roughly 130 million light-years. The observations
constrained any difference between the speeds of gravity and light to
an extraordinarily small amount."
Unfortunately, the physics is also well above my pay scale.
"Why Do Gravitational Waves Travel Exactly At The Speed Of Light?" ><https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2019/07/06/ask-ethan-why-do-gravitational-waves-travel-exactly-at-the-speed-of-ligh
Quote:end quote
That result is 0.0235% lower than the value obtained in the French experiment in 2007
Me:
Now IF the measurements are both correct, than I would think "gravity decreases over time".
Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:50000
Quote:end quote
That result is 0.0235% lower than the value obtained in the French experiment in 2007
Me:
Now IF the measurements are both correct, than I would think "gravity
decreases over time".
Except that at that rate of decline, gravity would vanish in less than
years.--
Maybe not.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
Quote:end quote
That result is 0.0235% lower than the value obtained in the French experiment in 2007
Me:
Now IF the measurements are both correct, than I would think "gravity decreases over time".
Except that at that rate of decline, gravity would vanish in less than 5000 >years.
Maybe not.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 08:26:21 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 12:32:14 -0600, Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote:However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
From:
|e-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm >>>>>>>>>
Physicists can|ore4raot agree on how the Universe works
Date:
|e-a September 13, 2026
Source:
|e-a University of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute
Summary:
|e-a A massive worldwide survey of physicists has revealed surprisingly
little
|e-a agreement about some of the universe|ore4raos biggest mysteries. >>>>>>>>> |e-a No majority backed the standard cosmological model, a leading >>>>>>>>> explanation for
|e-a dark matter, or any single theory of quantum gravity.
|e-a One area of stronger agreement stood out: 68% said the Big Bang does
not
|e-a necessarily represent the beginning of time.
|e-a Researchers say the divisions show just how alive and unsettled the
frontiers
|e-a of physics remain.
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know >>>>>>>> about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any >>>>>>>> evidence that gravity is quantised.
way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before >>>>>>> its effects take place.
Gravity propages at the speed of light according to 'science':
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=speed+of+gravity%3
I maintain that this is still remarkable. Light only travels at light speed
- through a void
- if it is not blocked by an obstacle
Clearly, gravity doesn't suffer the same visual restrictions.
Note, it's not gravity travels at light speed minus a small constant, it's
- gravity travels at exactly light speed, no less
"Scientists Have Slowed Light Down To An Embarrassing 38 Miles Per
Hour"
<https://www.iflscience.com/scientists-have-slowed-light-down-to-an-embarrassing-38-miles-per-hour-75894>
<https://www.nature.com/articles/17561>
Nice, now test if for gravity speed?
Sorry, but my kitchen laboratory is not equipped to make such
measurements.
I tried a few AI opinions. The consensus seems to be that the speed of
gravity is the same as light using gravitational waves when observing
a neutron star merger:
<https://chatgpt.com/share/6aa97510-741c-83e8-a408-5ab1d1aa58f5>
"In general relativity, gravity isn't treated as an instantaneous
force. Changes in the gravitational field - such as those produced
when massive objects accelerate - propagate through spacetime as
gravitational waves, which travel at c.
This was strongly confirmed observationally in 2017 when gravitational
waves from a neutron-star merger (GW170817) and electromagnetic
radiation from the same event arrived almost simultaneously after
traveling roughly 130 million light-years. The observations
constrained any difference between the speeds of gravity and light to
an extraordinarily small amount."
Unfortunately, the physics is also well above my pay scale.
"Why Do Gravitational Waves Travel Exactly At The Speed Of Light?"
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2019/07/06/ask-ethan-why-do-gravitational-waves-travel-exactly-at-the-speed-of-ligh
Things get ever more interwsting,
today I was reading this about gravity and G:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260920032049.htm
Scientists opened a sealed envelope after 10 years. Gravity still didn|ore4raot make
sense
Date:
September 20, 2026
Source:
National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
Summary:
A decade-long NIST experiment has produced a new measurement of the universal
gravitational constant that differs unexpectedly from another leading result,
deepening a 225-year-old physics puzzle.
The discrepancy is tiny, but for one of nature|ore4raos most fundamental constants,
it is large enough to keep scientists wondering whether hidden experimental
errors or something more surprising is involved.
So the G is now lower
Their value for G was 6.67387 |arCo 10-11 meters3/kilogram/second2.
Quote:
That result is 0.0235% lower than the value obtained in the French experiment
in 2007
end quote
Me:
Now IF the measurements are both correct, than I would think
"gravity decreases over time".
I know for sure that gravity keeps inceasing.
Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net>wrote:
Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
Quote:end quote
That result is 0.0235% lower than the value obtained in the French experiment in 2007
Me:
Now IF the measurements are both correct, than I would think "gravity decreases over time".
Except that at that rate of decline, gravity would vanish in less than 5000 >years.
Maybe not.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2026 13:43:41 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
I know for sure that gravity keeps inceasing.
Perhaps a little levity will restore the balance to gravity.
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 08:26:21 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 12:32:14 -0600, Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>wrote:
Bill Sloman wrote:However, if you are looking for evidence that gravity is special in some
On 14/09/2026 1:02 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
From:
|e-a https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260912220041.htm >>>>>>>>>>
Physicists can|ore4raot agree on how the Universe works
Date:
|e-a September 13, 2026
Source:
|e-a University of Waterloo and Perimeter Institute
Summary:
|e-a A massive worldwide survey of physicists has revealed surprisingly
little
|e-a agreement about some of the universe|ore4raos biggest mysteries.
|e-a No majority backed the standard cosmological model, a leading >>>>>>>>>> explanation for
|e-a dark matter, or any single theory of quantum gravity. >>>>>>>>>> |e-a One area of stronger agreement stood out: 68% said the Big Bang does
not
|e-a necessarily represent the beginning of time.
|e-a Researchers say the divisions show just how alive and unsettled the
frontiers
|e-a of physics remain.
Physics is science - not religion. It's theories fit the facts we know
about. We haven't got any theory of quantum gravity yet, nor any >>>>>>>>> evidence that gravity is quantised.
way, it is notable because it is instantaneous. Zero time passes before
its effects take place.
Gravity propages at the speed of light according to 'science':
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=speed+of+gravity%3
I maintain that this is still remarkable. Light only travels at light speed
- through a void
- if it is not blocked by an obstacle
Clearly, gravity doesn't suffer the same visual restrictions.
Note, it's not gravity travels at light speed minus a small constant, it's
- gravity travels at exactly light speed, no less
"Scientists Have Slowed Light Down To An Embarrassing 38 Miles Per
Hour"
<https://www.iflscience.com/scientists-have-slowed-light-down-to-an-embarrassing-38-miles-per-hour-75894>
<https://www.nature.com/articles/17561>
Nice, now test if for gravity speed?
Sorry, but my kitchen laboratory is not equipped to make such
measurements.
I tried a few AI opinions. The consensus seems to be that the speed of
gravity is the same as light using gravitational waves when observing
a neutron star merger:
<https://chatgpt.com/share/6aa97510-741c-83e8-a408-5ab1d1aa58f5>
"In general relativity, gravity isn't treated as an instantaneous
force. Changes in the gravitational field - such as those produced
when massive objects accelerate - propagate through spacetime as
gravitational waves, which travel at c.
This was strongly confirmed observationally in 2017 when gravitational
waves from a neutron-star merger (GW170817) and electromagnetic
radiation from the same event arrived almost simultaneously after
traveling roughly 130 million light-years. The observations
constrained any difference between the speeds of gravity and light to
an extraordinarily small amount."
Unfortunately, the physics is also well above my pay scale.
"Why Do Gravitational Waves Travel Exactly At The Speed Of Light?"
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2019/07/06/ask-ethan-why-do-gravitational-waves-travel-exactly-at-the-speed-of-ligh
Things get ever more interwsting,
today I was reading this about gravity and G:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260920032049.htm
Scientists opened a sealed envelope after 10 years. Gravity still didn|ore4raot make
sense
Date:
September 20, 2026
Source:
National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
Summary:
A decade-long NIST experiment has produced a new measurement of the universal
gravitational constant that differs unexpectedly from another leading result,
deepening a 225-year-old physics puzzle.
The discrepancy is tiny, but for one of nature|ore4raos most fundamental constants,
it is large enough to keep scientists wondering whether hidden experimental
errors or something more surprising is involved.
So the G is now lower
Their value for G was 6.67387 |arCo 10-11 meters3/kilogram/second2.
Quote:
That result is 0.0235% lower than the value obtained in the French experiment
in 2007
end quote
Me:
Now IF the measurements are both correct, than I would think
"gravity decreases over time".
Solar output varies as the seventh power of the gravitational constant.
A steady decline in G would result in a cooler sun, with the change
cited cooling the sun by about 1.5% -though it would take a long time
for this affect to be evident as changes would have to propagate to the >surface from the core.
If gravity were decreasing at that rate, then a few thousand years ago
the surface of the earth would have been molten lava, so if you
hypothesize a weakening gravity, it must have been weakening at a vastly >lower rate in the past.
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