• CERN and thw anti-matter bomb?

    From Jan Panteltje@alien@comet.invalid to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics,alt.survival,alt.politics.trump on Thu Mar 26 09:48:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics


    It was brought to my attention on TV by the German program Nano:
    CERN transports anti-matter:
    https://home.cern/news/press-release/experiments/base-experiment-cern-succeeds-transporting-antimatter

    On the way to an anti-matter bomb?
    Mar-a-lago a first test ;-)?

    You Ash surrender now!
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeroen Belleman@jeroen@nospam.please to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics,alt.survival,alt.politics.trump on Thu Mar 26 11:38:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On 3/26/26 10:48, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    It was brought to my attention on TV by the German program Nano:
    CERN transports anti-matter:
    https://home.cern/news/press-release/experiments/base-experiment-cern-succeeds-transporting-antimatter

    On the way to an anti-matter bomb?
    Mar-a-lago a first test ;-)?

    You Ash surrender now!

    I'm an occasional guide at the AD, taking people around the
    installations to show them what is going on. Yes, CERN is
    trucking antiprotons around, just testing the procedures
    for the moment. The reason is that some measurements that
    physicists want to perform are perturbed by the multitude
    of stray magnetic fields in the AD experimental hall, so
    we need to take the antiprotons to a magnetically quieter
    spot to do a proper measurement.

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    Jeroen Belleman
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From john larkin@jl@glen--canyon.com to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics,alt.survival,alt.politics.trump on Thu Mar 26 07:46:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 11:38:46 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 3/26/26 10:48, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    It was brought to my attention on TV by the German program Nano:
    CERN transports anti-matter:
    https://home.cern/news/press-release/experiments/base-experiment-cern-succeeds-transporting-antimatter

    On the way to an anti-matter bomb?
    Mar-a-lago a first test ;-)?

    You Ash surrender now!

    I'm an occasional guide at the AD, taking people around the
    installations to show them what is going on. Yes, CERN is
    trucking antiprotons around, just testing the procedures
    for the moment. The reason is that some measurements that
    physicists want to perform are perturbed by the multitude
    of stray magnetic fields in the AD experimental hall, so
    we need to take the antiprotons to a magnetically quieter
    spot to do a proper measurement.

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    Jeroen Belleman

    NIF has a cool visitors center and tours too. There are some nice
    wineries to have lunch at in Livermore too. And of course, it's close
    to San Francisco.

    The big glass laser slabs and flashtubes are beautiful.

    I was in the entry shack one day, years ago, when Edward Teller was
    signing in too. He was very old and frail and they treated him like
    God.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jan Panteltje@alien@comet.invalid to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics,alt.survival,alt.politics.trump on Thu Mar 26 15:32:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please>wrote:
    On 3/26/26 10:48, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    It was brought to my attention on TV by the German program Nano:
    CERN transports anti-matter:
    https://home.cern/news/press-release/experiments/base-experiment-cern-succeeds-transporting-antimatter

    On the way to an anti-matter bomb?
    Mar-a-lago a first test ;-)?

    You Ash surrender now!

    I'm an occasional guide at the AD, taking people around the
    installations to show them what is going on. Yes, CERN is
    trucking antiprotons around, just testing the procedures
    for the moment. The reason is that some measurements that
    physicists want to perform are perturbed by the multitude
    of stray magnetic fields in the AD experimental hall, so
    we need to take the antiprotons to a magnetically quieter
    spot to do a proper measurement.

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    Just wait and see when they realize the bomb's potential!
    They probably will build an anti matter plant, likely wind powered ;-)


    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    That number will increase when people seek shelter in those CERN tunnels when the white in the nut house start[s] WW3.



    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From john larkin@jl@glen--canyon.com to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics,alt.survival,alt.politics.trump on Thu Mar 26 09:01:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 15:32:04 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please>wrote:
    On 3/26/26 10:48, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    It was brought to my attention on TV by the German program Nano:
    CERN transports anti-matter:
    https://home.cern/news/press-release/experiments/base-experiment-cern-succeeds-transporting-antimatter

    On the way to an anti-matter bomb?
    Mar-a-lago a first test ;-)?

    You Ash surrender now!

    I'm an occasional guide at the AD, taking people around the
    installations to show them what is going on. Yes, CERN is
    trucking antiprotons around, just testing the procedures
    for the moment. The reason is that some measurements that
    physicists want to perform are perturbed by the multitude
    of stray magnetic fields in the AD experimental hall, so
    we need to take the antiprotons to a magnetically quieter
    spot to do a proper measurement.

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    Just wait and see when they realize the bomb's potential!
    They probably will build an anti matter plant, likely wind powered ;-)

    The numbers don't work. If you want to make loud bangs, use the
    electricity to separate hydrogen and oxygen and deonate that.

    Converting electricity into antimatter is likely something like 1e-18 efficient.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeroen Belleman@jeroen@nospam.please to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics,alt.survival,alt.politics.trump on Thu Mar 26 17:42:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On 3/26/26 17:01, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 15:32:04 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please>wrote:
    On 3/26/26 10:48, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    It was brought to my attention on TV by the German program Nano:
    CERN transports anti-matter:
    https://home.cern/news/press-release/experiments/base-experiment-cern-succeeds-transporting-antimatter

    On the way to an anti-matter bomb?
    Mar-a-lago a first test ;-)?

    You Ash surrender now!

    I'm an occasional guide at the AD, taking people around the
    installations to show them what is going on. Yes, CERN is
    trucking antiprotons around, just testing the procedures
    for the moment. The reason is that some measurements that
    physicists want to perform are perturbed by the multitude
    of stray magnetic fields in the AD experimental hall, so
    we need to take the antiprotons to a magnetically quieter
    spot to do a proper measurement.

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    Just wait and see when they realize the bomb's potential!
    They probably will build an anti matter plant, likely wind powered ;-)

    The numbers don't work. If you want to make loud bangs, use the
    electricity to separate hydrogen and oxygen and deonate that.

    Converting electricity into antimatter is likely something like 1e-18 efficient.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    Hmmm, I never worked that out. Hold on...
    You're right it's crazily inefficient.

    We get about one antiproton for every million protons that
    hit the conversion target. I don't actually know the
    electrical power consumption of the Proton Synchrotron
    and the Antiproton Decelerator.

    The annihilation of an antiproton with a proton yields
    about 2 GeV.

    Jeroen Belleman


    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Martin Brown@'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics,alt.survival,alt.politics.trump on Thu Mar 26 16:55:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On 26/03/2026 10:38, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 10:48, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    It was brought to my attention on TV by the German program Nano:
    -a CERN transports anti-matter:

    https://home.cern/news/press-release/experiments/base-experiment-cern-succeeds-transporting-antimatter

    -a On the way to an anti-matter bomb?
    Mar-a-lago a first test ;-)?

    You Ash surrender now!

    I'm an occasional guide at the AD, taking people around the
    installations to show them what is going on. Yes, CERN is
    trucking antiprotons around, just testing the procedures
    for the moment. The reason is that some measurements that
    physicists want to perform are perturbed by the multitude
    of stray magnetic fields in the AD experimental hall, so
    we need to take the antiprotons to a magnetically quieter
    spot to do a proper measurement.

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    What is the half life of an antiproton in a cryo Penning trap?

    I'd have thought that preventing stray hydrogen atoms getting in there
    would be nigh on impossible. Hydrogen even diffuses through steel...

    How many of the 92 will make it to the end of the journey?
    --
    Martin Brown

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From john larkin@jl@glen--canyon.com to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics,alt.survival,alt.politics.trump on Thu Mar 26 10:13:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 17:42:33 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 3/26/26 17:01, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 15:32:04 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please>wrote:
    On 3/26/26 10:48, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    It was brought to my attention on TV by the German program Nano:
    CERN transports anti-matter:
    https://home.cern/news/press-release/experiments/base-experiment-cern-succeeds-transporting-antimatter

    On the way to an anti-matter bomb?
    Mar-a-lago a first test ;-)?

    You Ash surrender now!

    I'm an occasional guide at the AD, taking people around the
    installations to show them what is going on. Yes, CERN is
    trucking antiprotons around, just testing the procedures
    for the moment. The reason is that some measurements that
    physicists want to perform are perturbed by the multitude
    of stray magnetic fields in the AD experimental hall, so
    we need to take the antiprotons to a magnetically quieter
    spot to do a proper measurement.

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    Just wait and see when they realize the bomb's potential!
    They probably will build an anti matter plant, likely wind powered ;-)

    The numbers don't work. If you want to make loud bangs, use the
    electricity to separate hydrogen and oxygen and deonate that.

    Converting electricity into antimatter is likely something like 1e-18
    efficient.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    Hmmm, I never worked that out. Hold on...
    You're right it's crazily inefficient.

    We get about one antiproton for every million protons that
    hit the conversion target. I don't actually know the
    electrical power consumption of the Proton Synchrotron
    and the Antiproton Decelerator.

    The annihilation of an antiproton with a proton yields
    about 2 GeV.

    Jeroen Belleman


    NIF is occasionally getting numbers like 2:1 fusion conversion
    efficiency, light energy to thermal output. Wall-plug efficiency is
    below 1%.

    I wonder how tokamaks are doing these days.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ho Li Phuc@HLP@aol.com to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics,alt.survival,alt.politics.trump on Thu Mar 26 15:46:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On 3/26/2026 10:42 AM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 17:01, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Mar 2026 15:32:04 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please>wrote:
    On 3/26/26 10:48, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    It was brought to my attention on TV by the German program Nano:
    -a-a CERN transports anti-matter:
    -a-a-a https://home.cern/news/press-release/experiments/base-
    experiment-cern-succeeds-transporting-antimatter

    -a-a On the way to an anti-matter bomb?
    Mar-a-lago a first test ;-)?

    You Ash surrender now!

    I'm an occasional guide at the AD, taking people around the
    installations to show them what is going on. Yes, CERN is
    trucking antiprotons around, just testing the procedures
    for the moment. The reason is that some measurements that
    physicists want to perform are perturbed by the multitude
    of stray magnetic fields in the AD experimental hall, so
    we need to take the antiprotons to a magnetically quieter
    spot to do a proper measurement.

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    Just wait and see when they realize the bomb's potential!
    They probably will build an anti matter plant, likely wind powered ;-)

    The numbers don't work. If you want to make loud bangs, use the
    electricity to separate hydrogen and oxygen and deonate that.

    Converting electricity into antimatter is likely something like 1e-18
    efficient.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    Hmmm, I never worked that out. Hold on...
    You're right it's crazily inefficient.

    We get about one antiproton for every million protons that
    hit the conversion target. I don't actually know the
    electrical power consumption of the Proton Synchrotron
    and the Antiproton Decelerator.

    The annihilation of an antiproton with a proton yields
    about 2 GeV.

    Jeroen Belleman



    You raise an interesting question, to wit, with coming restriction in
    Europe over rising energy costs and possible Covid-like restrictions for "residents" due to the ongoing war in the Middle East, will the
    scientists at CERN be forced to cut back on the massive energy
    consumption of CERN?
    --
    "And all of a sudden, all those empty bicycle lanes built during COVID
    now make sense." Another USENET poster.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeroen Belleman@jeroen@nospam.please to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics,alt.survival,alt.politics.trump on Thu Mar 26 23:36:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On 3/26/26 17:55, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 10:38, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 10:48, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    It was brought to my attention on TV by the German program Nano:
    -a CERN transports anti-matter:
    https://home.cern/news/press-release/experiments/base-experiment-cern-succeeds-transporting-antimatter

    -a On the way to an anti-matter bomb?
    Mar-a-lago a first test ;-)?

    You Ash surrender now!

    I'm an occasional guide at the AD, taking people around the
    installations to show them what is going on. Yes, CERN is
    trucking antiprotons around, just testing the procedures
    for the moment. The reason is that some measurements that
    physicists want to perform are perturbed by the multitude
    of stray magnetic fields in the AD experimental hall, so
    we need to take the antiprotons to a magnetically quieter
    spot to do a proper measurement.

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    What is the half life of an antiproton in a cryo Penning trap?

    I'd have thought that preventing stray hydrogen atoms getting in there
    would be nigh on impossible. Hydrogen even diffuses through steel...

    How many of the 92 will make it to the end of the journey?


    Actually it's not too bad. The half-life of antiprotons in a
    well-evacuated and cooled Penning trap is of the order of
    months, once the hottest particles have escaped. Holding on
    to antihydrogen is much harder, because you can't use electric
    fields to confine it. The half-life of antihydrogen is in the
    ballpark of a quarter of an hour.

    (Not sure if I'm entirely up-to-date on the subject, but those
    were the numbers when I last looked.)

    I don't know if the transportable antiproton trap is as good
    as the stationary ones.

    Jeroen Belleman
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Martin Brown@'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics,alt.survival,alt.politics.trump on Fri Mar 27 20:29:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On 26/03/2026 22:36, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 17:55, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 10:38, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    What is the half life of an antiproton in a cryo Penning trap?

    I'd have thought that preventing stray hydrogen atoms getting in there
    would be nigh on impossible. Hydrogen even diffuses through steel...

    How many of the 92 will make it to the end of the journey?


    Actually it's not too bad. The half-life of antiprotons in a
    well-evacuated and cooled Penning trap is of the order of
    months, once the hottest particles have escaped. Holding on
    to antihydrogen is much harder, because you can't use electric
    fields to confine it. The half-life of antihydrogen is in the
    ballpark of a quarter of an hour.

    We always had trouble getting the very last traces of hydrogen and water
    out of ultra hard vacuum systems. Have things improved recently?

    I'm surprised it is that good. I guess to some extent it is like the
    globular star clusters in astronomy after a few hot ones get expelled
    and the remaining ones settle down into a sort of equilibrium.

    Gravitation binds remaining stars ever more tightly but for protons you
    need an externally applied field to keep them in the middle of the trap.
    --
    Martin Brown

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeroen Belleman@jeroen@nospam.please to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics,alt.survival,alt.politics.trump on Fri Mar 27 22:19:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On 3/27/26 21:29, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 22:36, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 17:55, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 10:38, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    What is the half life of an antiproton in a cryo Penning trap?

    I'd have thought that preventing stray hydrogen atoms getting in
    there would be nigh on impossible. Hydrogen even diffuses through
    steel...

    How many of the 92 will make it to the end of the journey?


    Actually it's not too bad. The half-life of antiprotons in a
    well-evacuated and cooled Penning trap is of the order of
    months, once the hottest particles have escaped. Holding on
    to antihydrogen is much harder, because you can't use electric
    fields to confine it. The half-life of antihydrogen is in the
    ballpark of a quarter of an hour.

    We always had trouble getting the very last traces of hydrogen and water
    out of ultra hard vacuum systems. Have things improved recently?

    I'm surprised it is that good. I guess to some extent it is like the globular star clusters in astronomy after a few hot ones get expelled
    and the remaining ones settle down into a sort of equilibrium.

    Gravitation binds remaining stars ever more tightly but for protons you
    need an externally applied field to keep them in the middle of the trap.


    I don't have the detailed knowledge. I know that several of the
    experiments using antiprotons can continue to function for a few
    months after the accelerators are stopped. The vacuum is of the
    order of 10nPa. (7.5e-11 torr)

    I think the analogy with globular star clusters is a good one,
    except that antiprotons repel rather than attract and indeed
    externally applied electric fields are needed to keep them
    trapped. They use Penning-Malmberg traps. Some experiments
    inject electrons to further cool the antiprotons.

    Annihilation requires interactions involving three particles,
    which is rare because there are so few of them. I believe the
    gravitational capture of one body by another also usually
    requires the presence of a third.

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From x@x@x.net to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics on Sat Mar 28 06:28:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On 3/27/26 14:19, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/27/26 21:29, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 22:36, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 17:55, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 10:38, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    What is the half life of an antiproton in a cryo Penning trap?

    I'd have thought that preventing stray hydrogen atoms getting in
    there would be nigh on impossible. Hydrogen even diffuses through
    steel...

    How many of the 92 will make it to the end of the journey?


    Actually it's not too bad. The half-life of antiprotons in a
    well-evacuated and cooled Penning trap is of the order of
    months, once the hottest particles have escaped. Holding on
    to antihydrogen is much harder, because you can't use electric
    fields to confine it. The half-life of antihydrogen is in the
    ballpark of a quarter of an hour.

    We always had trouble getting the very last traces of hydrogen and
    water out of ultra hard vacuum systems. Have things improved recently?

    I'm surprised it is that good. I guess to some extent it is like the
    globular star clusters in astronomy after a few hot ones get expelled
    and the remaining ones settle down into a sort of equilibrium.

    Gravitation binds remaining stars ever more tightly but for protons
    you need an externally applied field to keep them in the middle of the
    trap.


    I don't have the detailed knowledge. I know that several of the
    experiments using antiprotons can continue to function for a few
    months after the accelerators are stopped. The vacuum is of the
    order of 10nPa. (7.5e-11 torr)

    I think the analogy with globular star clusters is a good one,
    except that antiprotons repel rather than attract and indeed
    externally applied electric fields are needed to keep them
    trapped. They use Penning-Malmberg traps. Some experiments
    inject electrons to further cool the antiprotons.

    Annihilation requires interactions involving three particles,
    which is rare because there are so few of them. I believe the
    gravitational capture of one body by another also usually
    requires the presence of a third.

    Jeroen Belleman

    You know the words 'bending spacetime' almost seem tailor
    made to sound bad if you try to apply it to static electric
    charges - in other words it is supposed to be strange if
    space-time is bent in one direction for a positive electric
    charge and it is bent in the opposite direction for a
    negative electric charge.

    Nonetheless basic question. Has anyone tried to subtract
    out the electric fields and clearly determine that gravity
    derived from regular matter does - attract antimatter rather
    than - repel antimatter?



    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From john larkin@jl@glen--canyon.com to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics on Sat Mar 28 07:34:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 06:28:51 -0700, x <x@x.net> wrote:

    On 3/27/26 14:19, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/27/26 21:29, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 22:36, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 17:55, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 10:38, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    What is the half life of an antiproton in a cryo Penning trap?

    I'd have thought that preventing stray hydrogen atoms getting in
    there would be nigh on impossible. Hydrogen even diffuses through
    steel...

    How many of the 92 will make it to the end of the journey?


    Actually it's not too bad. The half-life of antiprotons in a
    well-evacuated and cooled Penning trap is of the order of
    months, once the hottest particles have escaped. Holding on
    to antihydrogen is much harder, because you can't use electric
    fields to confine it. The half-life of antihydrogen is in the
    ballpark of a quarter of an hour.

    We always had trouble getting the very last traces of hydrogen and
    water out of ultra hard vacuum systems. Have things improved recently?

    I'm surprised it is that good. I guess to some extent it is like the
    globular star clusters in astronomy after a few hot ones get expelled
    and the remaining ones settle down into a sort of equilibrium.

    Gravitation binds remaining stars ever more tightly but for protons
    you need an externally applied field to keep them in the middle of the
    trap.


    I don't have the detailed knowledge. I know that several of the
    experiments using antiprotons can continue to function for a few
    months after the accelerators are stopped. The vacuum is of the
    order of 10nPa. (7.5e-11 torr)

    I think the analogy with globular star clusters is a good one,
    except that antiprotons repel rather than attract and indeed
    externally applied electric fields are needed to keep them
    trapped. They use Penning-Malmberg traps. Some experiments
    inject electrons to further cool the antiprotons.

    Annihilation requires interactions involving three particles,
    which is rare because there are so few of them. I believe the
    gravitational capture of one body by another also usually
    requires the presence of a third.

    Jeroen Belleman

    You know the words 'bending spacetime' almost seem tailor
    made to sound bad if you try to apply it to static electric
    charges - in other words it is supposed to be strange if
    space-time is bent in one direction for a positive electric
    charge and it is bent in the opposite direction for a
    negative electric charge.

    Nonetheless basic question. Has anyone tried to subtract
    out the electric fields and clearly determine that gravity
    derived from regular matter does - attract antimatter rather
    than - repel antimatter?



    google

    does gravity attract antimatter



    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From x@x@x.net to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics on Sat Mar 28 11:43:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On 3/28/26 07:34, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 06:28:51 -0700, x <x@x.net> wrote:

    On 3/27/26 14:19, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/27/26 21:29, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 22:36, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 17:55, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 10:38, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    What is the half life of an antiproton in a cryo Penning trap?

    I'd have thought that preventing stray hydrogen atoms getting in
    there would be nigh on impossible. Hydrogen even diffuses through
    steel...

    How many of the 92 will make it to the end of the journey?


    Actually it's not too bad. The half-life of antiprotons in a
    well-evacuated and cooled Penning trap is of the order of
    months, once the hottest particles have escaped. Holding on
    to antihydrogen is much harder, because you can't use electric
    fields to confine it. The half-life of antihydrogen is in the
    ballpark of a quarter of an hour.

    We always had trouble getting the very last traces of hydrogen and
    water out of ultra hard vacuum systems. Have things improved recently? >>>>
    I'm surprised it is that good. I guess to some extent it is like the
    globular star clusters in astronomy after a few hot ones get expelled
    and the remaining ones settle down into a sort of equilibrium.

    Gravitation binds remaining stars ever more tightly but for protons
    you need an externally applied field to keep them in the middle of the >>>> trap.


    I don't have the detailed knowledge. I know that several of the
    experiments using antiprotons can continue to function for a few
    months after the accelerators are stopped. The vacuum is of the
    order of 10nPa. (7.5e-11 torr)

    I think the analogy with globular star clusters is a good one,
    except that antiprotons repel rather than attract and indeed
    externally applied electric fields are needed to keep them
    trapped. They use Penning-Malmberg traps. Some experiments
    inject electrons to further cool the antiprotons.

    Annihilation requires interactions involving three particles,
    which is rare because there are so few of them. I believe the
    gravitational capture of one body by another also usually
    requires the presence of a third.

    Jeroen Belleman

    You know the words 'bending spacetime' almost seem tailor
    made to sound bad if you try to apply it to static electric
    charges - in other words it is supposed to be strange if
    space-time is bent in one direction for a positive electric
    charge and it is bent in the opposite direction for a
    negative electric charge.

    Nonetheless basic question. Has anyone tried to subtract
    out the electric fields and clearly determine that gravity
    derived from regular matter does - attract antimatter rather
    than - repel antimatter?



    google

    does gravity attract antimatter



    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    Ok.

    So, what is 'AI'? A generic term for 'technology'
    when a reporter wants to report on something that
    seems technological, but doesn't want to specify
    what the 'technology' is?

    Well maybe so, but it also two letters attached to the
    'google' search engine.


    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From john larkin@jl@glen--canyon.com to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics on Sat Mar 28 12:57:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 11:43:53 -0700, x <x@x.net> wrote:

    On 3/28/26 07:34, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 06:28:51 -0700, x <x@x.net> wrote:

    On 3/27/26 14:19, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/27/26 21:29, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 22:36, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 17:55, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 10:38, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    What is the half life of an antiproton in a cryo Penning trap?

    I'd have thought that preventing stray hydrogen atoms getting in >>>>>>> there would be nigh on impossible. Hydrogen even diffuses through >>>>>>> steel...

    How many of the 92 will make it to the end of the journey?


    Actually it's not too bad. The half-life of antiprotons in a
    well-evacuated and cooled Penning trap is of the order of
    months, once the hottest particles have escaped. Holding on
    to antihydrogen is much harder, because you can't use electric
    fields to confine it. The half-life of antihydrogen is in the
    ballpark of a quarter of an hour.

    We always had trouble getting the very last traces of hydrogen and
    water out of ultra hard vacuum systems. Have things improved recently? >>>>>
    I'm surprised it is that good. I guess to some extent it is like the >>>>> globular star clusters in astronomy after a few hot ones get expelled >>>>> and the remaining ones settle down into a sort of equilibrium.

    Gravitation binds remaining stars ever more tightly but for protons
    you need an externally applied field to keep them in the middle of the >>>>> trap.


    I don't have the detailed knowledge. I know that several of the
    experiments using antiprotons can continue to function for a few
    months after the accelerators are stopped. The vacuum is of the
    order of 10nPa. (7.5e-11 torr)

    I think the analogy with globular star clusters is a good one,
    except that antiprotons repel rather than attract and indeed
    externally applied electric fields are needed to keep them
    trapped. They use Penning-Malmberg traps. Some experiments
    inject electrons to further cool the antiprotons.

    Annihilation requires interactions involving three particles,
    which is rare because there are so few of them. I believe the
    gravitational capture of one body by another also usually
    requires the presence of a third.

    Jeroen Belleman

    You know the words 'bending spacetime' almost seem tailor
    made to sound bad if you try to apply it to static electric
    charges - in other words it is supposed to be strange if
    space-time is bent in one direction for a positive electric
    charge and it is bent in the opposite direction for a
    negative electric charge.

    Nonetheless basic question. Has anyone tried to subtract
    out the electric fields and clearly determine that gravity
    derived from regular matter does - attract antimatter rather
    than - repel antimatter?



    google

    does gravity attract antimatter



    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    Ok.

    So, what is 'AI'? A generic term for 'technology'
    when a reporter wants to report on something that
    seems technological, but doesn't want to specify
    what the 'technology' is?

    Well maybe so, but it also two letters attached to the
    'google' search engine.


    The google AI search isn't bad. One shouldn't believe it absolutely,
    but it usually has credible references and is a good start for
    branching out.

    I sometimes don't have the just-right words for a search, and the
    google AI often furnishes them.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeroen Belleman@jeroen@nospam.please to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics on Sat Mar 28 23:37:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On 3/28/26 14:28, x wrote:
    On 3/27/26 14:19, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/27/26 21:29, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 22:36, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 17:55, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 10:38, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    What is the half life of an antiproton in a cryo Penning trap?

    I'd have thought that preventing stray hydrogen atoms getting in
    there would be nigh on impossible. Hydrogen even diffuses through
    steel...

    How many of the 92 will make it to the end of the journey?


    Actually it's not too bad. The half-life of antiprotons in a
    well-evacuated and cooled Penning trap is of the order of
    months, once the hottest particles have escaped. Holding on
    to antihydrogen is much harder, because you can't use electric
    fields to confine it. The half-life of antihydrogen is in the
    ballpark of a quarter of an hour.

    We always had trouble getting the very last traces of hydrogen and
    water out of ultra hard vacuum systems. Have things improved recently?

    I'm surprised it is that good. I guess to some extent it is like the
    globular star clusters in astronomy after a few hot ones get expelled
    and the remaining ones settle down into a sort of equilibrium.

    Gravitation binds remaining stars ever more tightly but for protons
    you need an externally applied field to keep them in the middle of
    the trap.


    I don't have the detailed knowledge. I know that several of the
    experiments using antiprotons can continue to function for a few
    months after the accelerators are stopped. The vacuum is of the
    order of 10nPa. (7.5e-11 torr)

    I think the analogy with globular star clusters is a good one,
    except that antiprotons repel rather than attract and indeed
    externally applied electric fields are needed to keep them
    trapped. They use Penning-Malmberg traps. Some experiments
    inject electrons to further cool the antiprotons.

    Annihilation requires interactions involving three particles,
    which is rare because there are so few of them. I believe the
    gravitational capture of one body by another also usually
    requires the presence of a third.

    Jeroen Belleman

    You know the words 'bending spacetime' almost seem tailor
    made to sound bad if you try to apply it to static electric
    charges - in other words it is supposed to be strange if
    space-time is bent in one direction for a positive electric
    charge and it is bent in the opposite direction for a
    negative electric charge.

    Nonetheless basic question.-a Has anyone tried to subtract
    out the electric fields and clearly determine that gravity
    derived from regular matter does - attract antimatter rather
    than - repel antimatter?

    Yes indeed! Several experiments measure the effect of gravity
    on antimatter, neutral antihydrogen, and it falls down just
    like ordinary matter. At least within the precision afforded
    by the experiments. It's by no means easy to do.

    Jeroen Belleman
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From albert@albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics on Fri Apr 3 13:43:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    In article <8dcgsk1osm18ok7039gsffklcf0idocol5@4ax.com>,
    john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 11:43:53 -0700, x <x@x.net> wrote:

    On 3/28/26 07:34, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 06:28:51 -0700, x <x@x.net> wrote:

    On 3/27/26 14:19, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/27/26 21:29, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 22:36, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 17:55, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 10:38, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close.. >>>>>>>>>
    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    What is the half life of an antiproton in a cryo Penning trap? >>>>>>>>
    I'd have thought that preventing stray hydrogen atoms getting in >>>>>>>> there would be nigh on impossible. Hydrogen even diffuses through >>>>>>>> steel...

    How many of the 92 will make it to the end of the journey?


    Actually it's not too bad. The half-life of antiprotons in a
    well-evacuated and cooled Penning trap is of the order of
    months, once the hottest particles have escaped. Holding on
    to antihydrogen is much harder, because you can't use electric
    fields to confine it. The half-life of antihydrogen is in the
    ballpark of a quarter of an hour.

    We always had trouble getting the very last traces of hydrogen and >>>>>> water out of ultra hard vacuum systems. Have things improved recently? >>>>>>
    I'm surprised it is that good. I guess to some extent it is like the >>>>>> globular star clusters in astronomy after a few hot ones get expelled >>>>>> and the remaining ones settle down into a sort of equilibrium.

    Gravitation binds remaining stars ever more tightly but for protons >>>>>> you need an externally applied field to keep them in the middle of the >>>>>> trap.


    I don't have the detailed knowledge. I know that several of the
    experiments using antiprotons can continue to function for a few
    months after the accelerators are stopped. The vacuum is of the
    order of 10nPa. (7.5e-11 torr)

    I think the analogy with globular star clusters is a good one,
    except that antiprotons repel rather than attract and indeed
    externally applied electric fields are needed to keep them
    trapped. They use Penning-Malmberg traps. Some experiments
    inject electrons to further cool the antiprotons.

    Annihilation requires interactions involving three particles,
    which is rare because there are so few of them. I believe the
    gravitational capture of one body by another also usually
    requires the presence of a third.

    Jeroen Belleman

    You know the words 'bending spacetime' almost seem tailor
    made to sound bad if you try to apply it to static electric
    charges - in other words it is supposed to be strange if
    space-time is bent in one direction for a positive electric
    charge and it is bent in the opposite direction for a
    negative electric charge.

    Nonetheless basic question. Has anyone tried to subtract
    out the electric fields and clearly determine that gravity
    derived from regular matter does - attract antimatter rather
    than - repel antimatter?



    google

    does gravity attract antimatter



    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    Ok.

    So, what is 'AI'? A generic term for 'technology'
    when a reporter wants to report on something that
    seems technological, but doesn't want to specify
    what the 'technology' is?

    Well maybe so, but it also two letters attached to the
    'google' search engine.


    The google AI search isn't bad. One shouldn't believe it absolutely,
    but it usually has credible references and is a good start for
    branching out.

    All subjects where CIA hasn't a stake in are surprisingly reliable.


    I sometimes don't have the just-right words for a search, and the
    google AI often furnishes them.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics
    --
    The Chinese government is satisfied with its military superiority over USA.
    The next 5 year plan has as primary goal to advance life expectancy
    over 80 years, like Western Europe.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From A Person not authorized to speak@APNATS@cocks.net to sci.electronics.design,sci.physics,alt.survival,alt.politics.trump on Fri Apr 10 16:39:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On 3/27/2026 3:19 PM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/27/26 21:29, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 22:36, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 3/26/26 17:55, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 26/03/2026 10:38, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    No, there isn't enough to blow anything up, not even close..

    If you're interested, it's possible to visit CERN:
    <https://visit.cern>. There may be waiting lists. It's
    very sought after. CERN welcomes over a thousand visitors
    daily.

    What is the half life of an antiproton in a cryo Penning trap?

    I'd have thought that preventing stray hydrogen atoms getting in
    there would be nigh on impossible. Hydrogen even diffuses through
    steel...

    How many of the 92 will make it to the end of the journey?


    Actually it's not too bad. The half-life of antiprotons in a
    well-evacuated and cooled Penning trap is of the order of
    months, once the hottest particles have escaped. Holding on
    to antihydrogen is much harder, because you can't use electric
    fields to confine it. The half-life of antihydrogen is in the
    ballpark of a quarter of an hour.

    We always had trouble getting the very last traces of hydrogen and
    water out of ultra hard vacuum systems. Have things improved recently?

    I'm surprised it is that good. I guess to some extent it is like the
    globular star clusters in astronomy after a few hot ones get expelled
    and the remaining ones settle down into a sort of equilibrium.

    Gravitation binds remaining stars ever more tightly but for protons
    you need an externally applied field to keep them in the middle of the
    trap.


    I don't have the detailed knowledge. I know that several of the
    experiments using antiprotons can continue to function for a few
    months after the accelerators are stopped. The vacuum is of the
    order of 10nPa. (7.5e-11 torr)

    I think the analogy with globular star clusters is a good one,
    except that antiprotons repel rather than attract and indeed
    externally applied electric fields are needed to keep them
    trapped. They use Penning-Malmberg traps. Some experiments
    inject electrons to further cool the antiprotons.

    Annihilation requires interactions involving three particles,
    which is rare because there are so few of them. I believe the
    gravitational capture of one body by another also usually
    requires the presence of a third.

    Jeroen Belleman


    This might interest you . . .

    https://interestingengineering.com/science/scientists-observe-particles-emerging-from-nothing

    World-first: Scientists observe particles emerging from nothing in collider
    The STAR collaboration tracked rare quark-antiquark pairs created in
    proton collisions, offering new evidence that empty space is not truly
    empty.

    By
    Chris Young
    Science
    Apr 09, 2026 07:32 AM EST



    Google News Preferred Source
    A collision inside the STAR detector at the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider.
    A collision inside the STAR detector at the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider. Brookhaven National Laboratory
    Scientists at the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider have observed
    particles emerging directly from empty space for the first time,
    confirming a long-standing prediction of quantum chromodynamics.

    The discovery, reported by the STAR collaboration at Brookhaven National Laboratory in New York, involved high-energy proton collisions inside
    the labrCOs Solenoidal Tracker detector. Researchers detected rare quark-antiquark pairs created from the vacuum itself rather than from
    the colliding protons.

    The finding provides the clearest evidence yet that matter can
    materialize from what classical physics considers empty space. As such,
    it could help provide an answer to one of the biggest mysteries in
    physics: how particles acquire mass.

    Measuring vacuum signatures
    Quantum chromodynamics, the established theory of the strong force that
    binds quarks inside protons and neutrons, holds that a perfect vacuum is
    not empty. It contains constant fluctuations known as virtual particles, including short-lived quark-antiquark pairs.

    Under ordinary conditions, these pairs appear and vanish almost
    instantly. When sufficient energy is supplied, however, the theory
    predicts they can become real particles with measurable mass.

    In the STAR experiment, proton collisions generated a cascade of
    particles. As free quarks cannot exist in isolation, quarks produced
    from the vacuum immediately combine into composite particles called
    hyperons.

    The STAR team discovered key evidence in the form of the particlesrCO
    quantum property of spin. Quarks and antiquarks born from the vacuum
    carry correlated spinsrCoa shared alignment imprinted at creation. This correlation survived as the quarks formed hyperons and persisted even
    after the hyperons decayed in less than a tenth of a billionth of a second.

    Detection of these spin-aligned hyperons allowed the team to trace the quarksrCO origin to the vacuum rather than to the original collision
    debris. rCLThis is the first time werCOve seen the whole process,rCY Zhoudunming You, a member of the STAR collaboration, explained in an
    interview with New Scientist.

    Shedding light on the origin of particle mass
    The result has an important bearing on one of physicsrCO central puzzles:
    the origin of particle mass.

    Quantum chromodynamics predicts that quarks gain most of their mass
    through interactions with the vacuum, yet the precise mechanism behind
    this has remained unclear. The new observation provides a direct
    experimental handle on those vacuum interactions.

    It is worth noting that the results are not yet definitive, as
    researchers must rule out other factors that may have caused the signal. Future runs at the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider, and complementary experiments at other facilities, will aim to refine these findings.

    Still, the new research opens a new experimental route to study vacuum properties and the mass-generation process predicted by quantum chromodynamics. The STAR collaborationrCOs work marks the first direct observation of vacuum-derived matter and sets the stage for further
    tests of the theory at the energy frontier.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2