• on the nature of undecidability within computing: and refuting the church turing thesis

    From dart200@user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid to comp.theory,sci.logic,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Wed Aug 26 22:40:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.logic

    title of my next paper is tentative, but i'm kinda liking it. yes i'm
    quite serious about refuting the church turing thesis. i demonstrate how
    an idealized human agent can compute that which is not turing computable.

    until someone is willing to grant me an cs.LO endorsement i'm feeling a
    bit hesitant to go further into the arguments... idk u could tempt me
    prolly Efn+

    i'm willing to post the section headers as of now:

    1 the halting problem
    2 the circle-free problem
    2.1 turing's diagonal
    2.2 a simpler form
    3 the self-referential set-classification paradox generalized
    3.1 clarification on self-reference
    4 how undecidability is it?
    4.1 reducing circle-free to halting
    4.2 on the "existence" of recursive undecidability
    5 rectifying EYou
    5.1 bugfix: adding an identify check
    5.2 bugfix: injecting a partial recognizer
    5.3 a fallacy in turing's proof
    6 the anti-diagonal problem
    6.1 a proposed limit to undecidability within computing
    6.2 a second fallacy in turing's paper
    7 refuting the church turing thesis
    7.1 the terminal machine
    7.2 a record on the side
    7.3 inject value and reduce
    7.4 objective mechanics vs addressable simulation
    --
    arising us out of the computing dark ages,
    please excuse my pseudo-pyscript,
    ~ the lil crank that could

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  • From Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson@johann@myrkraverk.invalid to comp.theory,sci.logic,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Thu Aug 27 15:29:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.logic

    On 27/08/2026 1:40 PM, dart200 wrote:
    title of my next paper is tentative, but i'm kinda liking it. yes i'm
    quite serious about refuting the church turing thesis. i demonstrate how
    an idealized human agent can compute that which is not turing computable.

    until someone is willing to grant me an cs.LO endorsement i'm feeling a
    bit hesitant to go further into the arguments... idk u could tempt me
    prolly Efn+

    i'm willing to post the section headers as of now:


    I'm also a little hesitant I'll understand your paper, but the following section headers are indeed enticing. Will you put the paper up some-
    where plebs like me can read them, once you publish?


    1 the halting problem
    2 the circle-free problem
    -a2.1 turing's diagonal
    -a2.2 a simpler form
    3 the self-referential set-classification paradox generalized
    -a3.1 clarification on self-reference
    4 how undecidability is it?
    -a4.1 reducing circle-free to halting
    -a4.2 on the "existence" of recursive undecidability
    5 rectifying EYou
    -a5.1 bugfix: adding an identify check
    -a5.2 bugfix: injecting a partial recognizer
    -a5.3 a fallacy in turing's proof
    6 the anti-diagonal problem
    -a6.1 a proposed limit to undecidability within computing
    -a6.2 a second fallacy in turing's paper
    7 refuting the church turing thesis
    -a7.1 the terminal machine
    -a7.2 a record on the side
    -a7.3 inject value and reduce
    -a7.4 objective mechanics vs addressable simulation
    --
    Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
    I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
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  • From Mikko@mikko.levanto@iki.fi to comp.theory,sci.logic,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Thu Aug 27 10:49:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.logic

    On 27/08/2026 08:40, dart200 wrote:
    title of my next paper is tentative, but i'm kinda liking it. yes i'm
    quite serious about refuting the church turing thesis. i demonstrate how
    an idealized human agent can compute that which is not turing computable.

    Is there any way to prove that humans can compute anyhing not Turing computable? Much can be computed with a Turing computable partial
    method.
    --
    Mikko
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  • From Ross Finlayson@ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.logic,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Thu Aug 27 07:34:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.logic

    On 08/26/2026 10:40 PM, dart200 wrote:
    title of my next paper is tentative, but i'm kinda liking it. yes i'm
    quite serious about refuting the church turing thesis. i demonstrate how
    an idealized human agent can compute that which is not turing computable.

    until someone is willing to grant me an cs.LO endorsement i'm feeling a
    bit hesitant to go further into the arguments... idk u could tempt me
    prolly Efn+

    i'm willing to post the section headers as of now:

    1 the halting problem
    2 the circle-free problem
    2.1 turing's diagonal
    2.2 a simpler form
    3 the self-referential set-classification paradox generalized
    3.1 clarification on self-reference
    4 how undecidability is it?
    4.1 reducing circle-free to halting
    4.2 on the "existence" of recursive undecidability
    5 rectifying EYou
    5.1 bugfix: adding an identify check
    5.2 bugfix: injecting a partial recognizer
    5.3 a fallacy in turing's proof
    6 the anti-diagonal problem
    6.1 a proposed limit to undecidability within computing
    6.2 a second fallacy in turing's paper
    7 refuting the church turing thesis
    7.1 the terminal machine
    7.2 a record on the side
    7.3 inject value and reduce
    7.4 objective mechanics vs addressable simulation

    What you might find is yourself establishing the _independence_
    of various ordinary theorems vis-a-vis their conjecture, from
    usual ordinary theories that you'll be finding have implicits
    and stipulations that while so seemingly innocuous or plain,
    were always inside a box that declared itself open and closed.


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  • From dart200@user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid to comp.theory,sci.logic,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Thu Aug 27 12:48:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.logic

    On 8/27/26 7:34 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 08/26/2026 10:40 PM, dart200 wrote:
    title of my next paper is tentative, but i'm kinda liking it. yes i'm
    quite serious about refuting the church turing thesis. i demonstrate how
    an idealized human agent can compute that which is not turing computable.

    until someone is willing to grant me an cs.LO endorsement i'm feeling a
    bit hesitant to go further into the arguments... idk u could tempt me
    prolly Efn+

    i'm willing to post the section headers as of now:

    1 the halting problem
    2 the circle-free problem
    -a 2.1 turing's diagonal
    -a 2.2 a simpler form
    3 the self-referential set-classification paradox generalized
    -a 3.1 clarification on self-reference
    4 how undecidability is it?
    -a 4.1 reducing circle-free to halting
    -a 4.2 on the "existence" of recursive undecidability
    5 rectifying EYou
    -a 5.1 bugfix: adding an identify check
    -a 5.2 bugfix: injecting a partial recognizer
    -a 5.3 a fallacy in turing's proof
    6 the anti-diagonal problem
    -a 6.1 a proposed limit to undecidability within computing
    -a 6.2 a second fallacy in turing's paper
    7 refuting the church turing thesis
    -a 7.1 the terminal machine
    -a 7.2 a record on the side
    -a 7.3 inject value and reduce
    -a 7.4 objective mechanics vs addressable simulation

    What you might find is yourself establishing the _independence_

    while a particular number can be computed by an idealize human agent
    (the anti-diagonal across turing computable sequences),

    it is necessary that said number is not turing computable lest a
    contradiction would be generated as per turing's original paper /on
    computable numbers/

    of various ordinary theorems vis-a-vis their conjecture, from
    usual ordinary theories that you'll be finding have implicits
    and stipulations that while so seemingly innocuous or plain,
    were always inside a box that declared itself open and closed.

    --
    arising us out of the computing dark ages,
    please excuse my pseudo-pyscript,
    ~ the lil crank that could
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dart200@user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid to comp.theory,sci.logic,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Thu Aug 27 12:48:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.logic

    On 8/27/26 12:29 AM, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
    On 27/08/2026 1:40 PM, dart200 wrote:
    title of my next paper is tentative, but i'm kinda liking it. yes i'm
    quite serious about refuting the church turing thesis. i demonstrate
    how an idealized human agent can compute that which is not turing
    computable.

    until someone is willing to grant me an cs.LO endorsement i'm feeling
    a bit hesitant to go further into the arguments... idk u could tempt
    me prolly Efn+

    i'm willing to post the section headers as of now:


    I'm also a little hesitant I'll understand your paper, but the following section headers are indeed enticing.-a Will you put the paper up some-
    where plebs like me can read them, once you publish?

    of course, i'm but a pleb writing for other interested plebs, eh?

    i have other related material posted here:

    https://independent.academia.edu/NickSwenson26

    none of them are peer reviewed atm, nor as well technically developed,
    but are by and large related to the what i'm writing about now, which is
    the first i expect to be able to publish


    1 the halting problem
    2 the circle-free problem
    -a-a2.1 turing's diagonal
    -a-a2.2 a simpler form
    3 the self-referential set-classification paradox generalized
    -a-a3.1 clarification on self-reference
    4 how undecidability is it?
    -a-a4.1 reducing circle-free to halting
    -a-a4.2 on the "existence" of recursive undecidability
    5 rectifying EYou
    -a-a5.1 bugfix: adding an identify check
    -a-a5.2 bugfix: injecting a partial recognizer
    -a-a5.3 a fallacy in turing's proof
    6 the anti-diagonal problem
    -a-a6.1 a proposed limit to undecidability within computing
    -a-a6.2 a second fallacy in turing's paper
    7 refuting the church turing thesis
    -a-a7.1 the terminal machine
    -a-a7.2 a record on the side
    -a-a7.3 inject value and reduce
    -a-a7.4 objective mechanics vs addressable simulation


    --
    arising us out of the computing dark ages,
    please excuse my pseudo-pyscript,
    ~ the lil crank that could
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Dude@punditster@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.logic,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Thu Aug 27 18:00:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.logic

    On 8/27/2026 12:29 AM, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
    On 27/08/2026 1:40 PM, dart200 wrote:
    title of my next paper is tentative, but i'm kinda liking it. yes i'm
    quite serious about refuting the church turing thesis. i demonstrate
    how an idealized human agent can compute that which is not turing
    computable.

    until someone is willing to grant me an cs.LO endorsement i'm feeling
    a bit hesitant to go further into the arguments... idk u could tempt
    me prolly Efn+

    i'm willing to post the section headers as of now:


    I'm also a little hesitant I'll understand your paper, but the following section headers are indeed enticing.-a Will you put the paper up some-
    where plebs like me can read them, once you publish?

    Most of the code is posted already. I would copy and paste it here, but
    I know this is a family-oriented board.

    See:

    Nick's Greatest Hits

    alt.messianic



    1 the halting problem
    2 the circle-free problem
    -a-a2.1 turing's diagonal
    -a-a2.2 a simpler form
    3 the self-referential set-classification paradox generalized
    -a-a3.1 clarification on self-reference
    4 how undecidability is it?
    -a-a4.1 reducing circle-free to halting
    -a-a4.2 on the "existence" of recursive undecidability
    5 rectifying EYou
    -a-a5.1 bugfix: adding an identify check
    -a-a5.2 bugfix: injecting a partial recognizer
    -a-a5.3 a fallacy in turing's proof
    6 the anti-diagonal problem
    -a-a6.1 a proposed limit to undecidability within computing
    -a-a6.2 a second fallacy in turing's paper
    7 refuting the church turing thesis
    -a-a7.1 the terminal machine
    -a-a7.2 a record on the side
    -a-a7.3 inject value and reduce
    -a-a7.4 objective mechanics vs addressable simulation



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  • From Dude@punditster@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.logic,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Thu Aug 27 18:07:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.logic

    On 8/27/2026 12:48 PM, dart200 wrote:
    On 8/27/26 7:34 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 08/26/2026 10:40 PM, dart200 wrote:
    title of my next paper is tentative, but i'm kinda liking it. yes i'm
    quite serious about refuting the church turing thesis. i demonstrate how >>> an idealized human agent can compute that which is not turing
    computable.

    until someone is willing to grant me an cs.LO endorsement i'm feeling a
    bit hesitant to go further into the arguments... idk u could tempt me
    prolly Efn+

    i'm willing to post the section headers as of now:

    1 the halting problem
    2 the circle-free problem
    -a 2.1 turing's diagonal
    -a 2.2 a simpler form
    3 the self-referential set-classification paradox generalized
    -a 3.1 clarification on self-reference
    4 how undecidability is it?
    -a 4.1 reducing circle-free to halting
    -a 4.2 on the "existence" of recursive undecidability
    5 rectifying EYou
    -a 5.1 bugfix: adding an identify check
    -a 5.2 bugfix: injecting a partial recognizer
    -a 5.3 a fallacy in turing's proof
    6 the anti-diagonal problem
    -a 6.1 a proposed limit to undecidability within computing
    -a 6.2 a second fallacy in turing's paper
    7 refuting the church turing thesis
    -a 7.1 the terminal machine
    -a 7.2 a record on the side
    -a 7.3 inject value and reduce
    -a 7.4 objective mechanics vs addressable simulation

    What you might find is yourself establishing the _independence_

    while a particular number can be computed by an idealize human agent
    (the anti-diagonal across turing computable sequences),

    it is necessary that said number is not turing computable lest a contradiction would be generated as per turing's original paper /on computable numbers/

    It looks like your paper is a thesis, not a theorem

    A theorem requires a formal mathematical proof.


    of various ordinary theorems vis-a-vis their conjecture, from
    usual ordinary theories that you'll be finding have implicits
    and stipulations that while so seemingly innocuous or plain,
    were always inside a box that declared itself open and closed.



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