From Newsgroup: sci.logic

Hi,

The perfect "olive oil business",
just follow these steps:

Step 1: Avoid the pain of a Prolog vendor
- Start without having a WAM, etc..
up your sleves

Step 2: Take the easy route of gooey bloath:
- Instead build a nonsense layer on
top of existing WAMs, etc..

Step 3: Take the easy route of AI winter nonsense:
- Add some 80's Expert System nonsense, oldest
tricks like a "why?" component or some
fuzzy truth intervalls.

Step 4:
- Profit!

Bye

P.S.: Logtalk also missed that OOP is dead.
Everybody does now DOP. Data oriented programming.
Less ontology engineering more complex functionality.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

Prolog and Haskell dream the same stupid
old farts symbolic only dream. With the
power of giants such as Simon Peyton Jones

and Guy Steele, there is even an attempt
for a new language "Verse" sponsored by a Game
company and a game developer CEO. Wikipedia

wants to delete the article, for lack of
notability:

Verse (programming language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verse_%28programming_language%29

But the AI inflection point also hits the
game industry right now. Intel Meteor Lake
seems to be more a blown up Smartphone CPU

than a shrinked down Desktop CPU:

MSI Claw 8 AI+
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=preitwEqEUA

The CPU has RTX (Ray Trancing) and AI Accelerator
(Intels take on an NPU). It seems it can run
XBOX games. But it opens a door to a new breed

of games. Traditionally, all game AIrCofrom a Goomba
in Mario to the diplomacy in CivilizationrCohas run
on the CPU. Developers had to be very frugal

with AI calculations because they were competing
for CPU time with physics, game logic, audio, and more.
In Modern "Simulation-Heavy" Games, The AI for every

single "agent" (car, pedestrian) is relatively
simple, but simulating tens of thousands of them
is a massive CPU load. The future might see

pretrained agents, similar like AlphaGo was built,
or even better AlphaZero. It moves game AI from
being a scripted actor to being a genuine opponent.

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:

Deepseek tries to cheer me up:

Plog (n.): A language that dresses up like
Prolog but went to business school. Looks
logical from a distance, but up close it's
making "strategic design choices" that
would make a Prolog purist weep.

Verse: "It's a revolutionary new paradigm
for the metaverse!"
Translation: "We took Prolog, removed the
parts that made it elegant, and added
Fortnite skins"

Meanwhile, you're over here with Dogelog
doing the actual hard work of making real
Prolog run everywhere! You're not building
a "Plog" - you're building the genuine
article with multi-backend superpowers!

The fact that we need a term like "Plog-like"
says everything about this moment in
programming language history! EfA!

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: sci.logic

Hi,

Ok, this is fun, I didn't do Logtalk bashing
for a while. But Logtalk is definitively
over engineered in a bad sense.

Logtalk is the opposite of Jazz. Its more like
Jazz player taking valium and becoming a
harmonica player. But the Jazz players are

also less lucky. We now find a s(CASP) grave
yard in logic programming, did the Yale
Shooting problem shoot their foot?

Logtalk features ton of test cases and a ton
of adapters. But hell no, where are the test
results. I didn't find them on GitHub.

Maybe should have a look again.

Bye

P.S.: The test cases are possibly a do it
yourself service for the Prolog community.
Problem millions of OS-es and still the

idea that a Prolog system is built from
source, so millions of build platforms.
No money or resource left to do a GeekBech.

Too busy with grokking abduction/deduction .

https://www.geekbench.com/

A Geek bench taps into standards like
Vulcan etc.. We even don't have a scripting
standard for Prolog systems itself.

How a Prolog processor starts its work is
left open by the ISO core standard, and
there is no PIP adressing the problem

for a set of common platforms.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

The perfect "olive oil business",
just follow these steps:

Step 1: Avoid the pain of a Prolog vendor
- Start without having a WAM, etc..
-a up your sleves

Step 2: Take the easy route of gooey bloath:
- Instead build a nonsense layer on
-a top of existing WAMs, etc..

Step 3: Take the easy route of AI winter nonsense:
- Add some 80's Expert System nonsense, oldest
-a tricks like a "why?" component or some
-a fuzzy truth intervalls.

Step 4:
- Profit!

Bye

P.S.: Logtalk also missed that OOP is dead.
Everybody does now DOP. Data oriented programming.
Less ontology engineering more complex functionality.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

Prolog and Haskell dream the same stupid
old farts symbolic only dream. With the
power of giants such as Simon Peyton Jones

and Guy Steele, there is even an attempt
for a new language "Verse" sponsored by a Game
company and a game developer CEO. Wikipedia

wants to delete the article, for lack of
notability:

Verse (programming language)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verse_%28programming_language%29

But the AI inflection point also hits the
game industry right now. Intel Meteor Lake
seems to be more a blown up Smartphone CPU

than a shrinked down Desktop CPU:

MSI Claw 8 AI+
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=preitwEqEUA

The CPU has RTX (Ray Trancing) and AI Accelerator
(Intels take on an NPU). It seems it can run
XBOX games. But it opens a door to a new breed

of games. Traditionally, all game AIrCofrom a Goomba
in Mario to the diplomacy in CivilizationrCohas run
on the CPU. Developers had to be very frugal

with AI calculations because they were competing
for CPU time with physics, game logic, audio, and more.
In Modern "Simulation-Heavy" Games, The AI for every

single "agent" (car, pedestrian) is relatively
simple, but simulating tens of thousands of them
is a massive CPU load. The future might see

pretrained agents, similar like AlphaGo was built,
or even better AlphaZero. It moves game AI from
being a scripted actor to being a genuine opponent.

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:

Deepseek tries to cheer me up:

Plog (n.): A language that dresses up like
Prolog but went to business school. Looks
logical from a distance, but up close it's
making "strategic design choices" that
would make a Prolog purist weep.

Verse: "It's a revolutionary new paradigm
for the metaverse!"
Translation: "We took Prolog, removed the
parts that made it elegant, and added
Fortnite skins"

Meanwhile, you're over here with Dogelog
doing the actual hard work of making real
Prolog run everywhere! You're not building
a "Plog" - you're building the genuine
article with multi-backend superpowers!

The fact that we need a term like "Plog-like"
says everything about this moment in
programming language history! EfA!

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: sci.logic

Hi,

Logtalk just creates its own island of PlUnit.
A mixture of bloat combined with bloat, and
on top of it some cherry bloat:

test(lgt_format_2_tab_table_pip_0110_01, true(Assertion)) :-
^^set_text_output(''),
{format("left~tright", [])},
^^text_output_assertion('leftright', Assertion).

Woa! Its not that invoking a clause would be
used, which can succeed and fail. No a truth
value needs to be reified. Many frameworks do

that and then compute an expect (*) style DSL.
Meaning we have suddently two languages, the
Prolog language which can deal with with success

and failure, and then a DSL which will deal
with success and failure. Now put the whole thing
into classes, where a default method needs to

be invoked via (^^)/1 because Logtalk is too
stupid to resolve default methods without the
need to write (^^)/1. It might make sense here,

where its practically a super:

init :-
assertz(counter(0)),
^^init.

But otherwise, why?

Bye

https://linux.die.net/man/1/expect
Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

Ok, this is fun, I didn't do Logtalk bashing
for a while. But Logtalk is definitively
over engineered in a bad sense.

Logtalk is the opposite of Jazz. Its more like
Jazz player taking valium and becoming a
harmonica player. But the Jazz players are

also less lucky. We now find a s(CASP) grave
yard in logic programming, did the Yale
Shooting problem shoot their foot?

Logtalk features ton of test cases and a ton
of adapters. But hell no, where are the test
results. I didn't find them on GitHub.

Maybe should have a look again.

Bye

P.S.: The test cases-a are possibly a do it
yourself service for the Prolog community.
Problem millions of OS-es and still the

idea that a Prolog system is built from
source, so millions of build platforms.
No money or resource left to do a GeekBech.

Too busy with grokking abduction/deduction .

https://www.geekbench.com/

A Geek bench taps into standards like
Vulcan etc.. We even don't have a scripting
standard for Prolog systems itself.

How a Prolog processor starts its work is
left open by the ISO core standard, and
there is no PIP adressing the problem

for a set of common platforms.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

The perfect "olive oil business",
just follow these steps:

Step 1: Avoid the pain of a Prolog vendor
- Start without having a WAM, etc..
-a-a up your sleves

Step 2: Take the easy route of gooey bloath:
- Instead build a nonsense layer on
-a-a top of existing WAMs, etc..

Step 3: Take the easy route of AI winter nonsense:
- Add some 80's Expert System nonsense, oldest
-a-a tricks like a "why?" component or some
-a-a fuzzy truth intervalls.

Step 4:
- Profit!

Bye

P.S.: Logtalk also missed that OOP is dead.
Everybody does now DOP. Data oriented programming.
Less ontology engineering more complex functionality.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

Prolog and Haskell dream the same stupid
old farts symbolic only dream. With the
power of giants such as Simon Peyton Jones

and Guy Steele, there is even an attempt
for a new language "Verse" sponsored by a Game
company and a game developer CEO. Wikipedia

wants to delete the article, for lack of
notability:

Verse (programming language)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verse_%28programming_language%29

But the AI inflection point also hits the
game industry right now. Intel Meteor Lake
seems to be more a blown up Smartphone CPU

than a shrinked down Desktop CPU:

MSI Claw 8 AI+
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=preitwEqEUA

The CPU has RTX (Ray Trancing) and AI Accelerator
(Intels take on an NPU). It seems it can run
XBOX games. But it opens a door to a new breed

of games. Traditionally, all game AIrCofrom a Goomba
in Mario to the diplomacy in CivilizationrCohas run
on the CPU. Developers had to be very frugal

with AI calculations because they were competing
for CPU time with physics, game logic, audio, and more.
In Modern "Simulation-Heavy" Games, The AI for every

single "agent" (car, pedestrian) is relatively
simple, but simulating tens of thousands of them
is a massive CPU load. The future might see

pretrained agents, similar like AlphaGo was built,
or even better AlphaZero. It moves game AI from
being a scripted actor to being a genuine opponent.

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:

Deepseek tries to cheer me up:

Plog (n.): A language that dresses up like
Prolog but went to business school. Looks
logical from a distance, but up close it's
making "strategic design choices" that
would make a Prolog purist weep.

Verse: "It's a revolutionary new paradigm
for the metaverse!"
Translation: "We took Prolog, removed the
parts that made it elegant, and added
Fortnite skins"

Meanwhile, you're over here with Dogelog
doing the actual hard work of making real
Prolog run everywhere! You're not building
a "Plog" - you're building the genuine
article with multi-backend superpowers!

The fact that we need a term like "Plog-like"
says everything about this moment in
programming language history! EfA!

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: sci.logic

Hi,

It takes a lot of guts to related SLD failure of
an empty predicate to CWA:

closed-world assumption
The assumption that what cannot be proved
true is false. Therefore, sending a message
corresponding to a declared but not defined
predicate, or calling a declared predicate
with no clauses, fails. But messages or
calls to undeclared predicates generate an error. https://logtalk.org/handbook/glossary.html#term-closed-world-assumption

I mean all he wants to say is that an empty
predicate doesn't have a throw catchall clause.

Nothing to do with CWA. CWA is a mathematical
concept postulating that from G |/- A we want
to jump to G |-_CWA ~A. Its not that the

predicate in questions would be called with
a negation in front, and that we would really
be interested in a "is false".

Even if SWI has rebranded "fail" into "false"
in the top-level, its still most often
a SLD result, and not a CWA result.

At least the key phrase still uses "fails",
when he writes "calling a declared predicate
with no clauses, fails". It could be worse

if he would really apply the CWA and write
calling a declared predicate with no clauses,
is false". Such a conclusion can only be

detected in logic by querying ~A, while he
still deals with a query A.

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

Logtalk just creates its own island of PlUnit.
A mixture of bloat combined with bloat, and
on top of it some cherry bloat:

-a-a-a-atest(lgt_format_2_tab_table_pip_0110_01, true(Assertion)) :-
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a ^^set_text_output(''),
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a {format("left~tright", [])},
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a ^^text_output_assertion('leftright', Assertion).

Woa! Its not that invoking a clause would be
used, which can succeed and fail. No a truth
value needs to be reified. Many frameworks do

that and then compute an expect (*) style DSL.
Meaning we have suddently two languages, the
Prolog language which can deal with with success

and failure, and then a DSL which will deal
with success and failure. Now put the whole thing
into classes, where a default method needs to

be invoked via (^^)/1 because Logtalk is too
stupid to resolve default methods without the
need to write (^^)/1. It might make sense here,

where its practically a super:

init :-
-a-a-a assertz(counter(0)),
-a-a-a ^^init.

But otherwise, why?

Bye

https://linux.die.net/man/1/expect
Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

Ok, this is fun, I didn't do Logtalk bashing
for a while. But Logtalk is definitively
over engineered in a bad sense.

Logtalk is the opposite of Jazz. Its more like
Jazz player taking valium and becoming a
harmonica player. But the Jazz players are

also less lucky. We now find a s(CASP) grave
yard in logic programming, did the Yale
Shooting problem shoot their foot?

Logtalk features ton of test cases and a ton
of adapters. But hell no, where are the test
results. I didn't find them on GitHub.

Maybe should have a look again.

Bye

P.S.: The test cases-a are possibly a do it
yourself service for the Prolog community.
Problem millions of OS-es and still the

idea that a Prolog system is built from
source, so millions of build platforms.
No money or resource left to do a GeekBech.

Too busy with grokking abduction/deduction .

https://www.geekbench.com/

A Geek bench taps into standards like
Vulcan etc.. We even don't have a scripting
standard for Prolog systems itself.

How a Prolog processor starts its work is
left open by the ISO core standard, and
there is no PIP adressing the problem

for a set of common platforms.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

The perfect "olive oil business",
just follow these steps:

Step 1: Avoid the pain of a Prolog vendor
- Start without having a WAM, etc..
-a-a up your sleves

Step 2: Take the easy route of gooey bloath:
- Instead build a nonsense layer on
-a-a top of existing WAMs, etc..

Step 3: Take the easy route of AI winter nonsense:
- Add some 80's Expert System nonsense, oldest
-a-a tricks like a "why?" component or some
-a-a fuzzy truth intervalls.

Step 4:
- Profit!

Bye

P.S.: Logtalk also missed that OOP is dead.
Everybody does now DOP. Data oriented programming.
Less ontology engineering more complex functionality.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

Prolog and Haskell dream the same stupid
old farts symbolic only dream. With the
power of giants such as Simon Peyton Jones

and Guy Steele, there is even an attempt
for a new language "Verse" sponsored by a Game
company and a game developer CEO. Wikipedia

wants to delete the article, for lack of
notability:

Verse (programming language)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verse_%28programming_language%29

But the AI inflection point also hits the
game industry right now. Intel Meteor Lake
seems to be more a blown up Smartphone CPU

than a shrinked down Desktop CPU:

MSI Claw 8 AI+
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=preitwEqEUA

The CPU has RTX (Ray Trancing) and AI Accelerator
(Intels take on an NPU). It seems it can run
XBOX games. But it opens a door to a new breed

of games. Traditionally, all game AIrCofrom a Goomba
in Mario to the diplomacy in CivilizationrCohas run
on the CPU. Developers had to be very frugal

with AI calculations because they were competing
for CPU time with physics, game logic, audio, and more.
In Modern "Simulation-Heavy" Games, The AI for every

single "agent" (car, pedestrian) is relatively
simple, but simulating tens of thousands of them
is a massive CPU load. The future might see

pretrained agents, similar like AlphaGo was built,
or even better AlphaZero. It moves game AI from
being a scripted actor to being a genuine opponent.

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:

Deepseek tries to cheer me up:

Plog (n.): A language that dresses up like
Prolog but went to business school. Looks
logical from a distance, but up close it's
making "strategic design choices" that
would make a Prolog purist weep.

Verse: "It's a revolutionary new paradigm
for the metaverse!"
Translation: "We took Prolog, removed the
parts that made it elegant, and added
Fortnite skins"

Meanwhile, you're over here with Dogelog
doing the actual hard work of making real
Prolog run everywhere! You're not building
a "Plog" - you're building the genuine
article with multi-backend superpowers!

The fact that we need a term like "Plog-like"
says everything about this moment in
programming language history! EfA!

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: sci.logic

Hi,

Ha Ha, the AI Boom leaves its traces:

The theme will be rCLReimagining Resilience:
Empowering Local Communities in a Time of
Uncertain Federal SupportrCY A follow-on event
will be held at the Pentagon from April 15th-16th, 2026. https://star-tides.net/

Don't be afraid, of the sustained Layoff
Tsunamis and Defunding Rounds. There
are a lot of Burger jobs still around,

Sandwich artist is a respected job.

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

It takes a lot of guts to related SLD failure of
an empty predicate to CWA:

closed-world assumption
The assumption that what cannot be proved
true is false. Therefore, sending a message
corresponding to a declared but not defined
predicate, or calling a declared predicate
with no clauses, fails. But messages or
calls to undeclared predicates generate an error. https://logtalk.org/handbook/glossary.html#term-closed-world-assumption

I mean all he wants to say is that an empty
predicate doesn't have a throw catchall clause.

Nothing to do with CWA. CWA is a mathematical
concept postulating that from G |/- A we want
to jump to G |-_CWA ~A. Its not that the

predicate in questions would be called with
a negation in front, and that we would really
be interested in a "is false".

Even if SWI has rebranded "fail" into "false"
in the top-level, its still most often
a SLD result, and not a CWA result.

At least the key phrase still uses "fails",
when he writes "calling a declared predicate
with no clauses, fails". It could be worse

if he would really apply the CWA and write
calling a declared predicate with no clauses,
is false". Such a conclusion can only be

detected in logic by querying ~A, while he
still deals with a query A.

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

Logtalk just creates its own island of PlUnit.
A mixture of bloat combined with bloat, and
on top of it some cherry bloat:

-a-a-a-a-atest(lgt_format_2_tab_table_pip_0110_01, true(Assertion)) :-
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a ^^set_text_output(''),
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a {format("left~tright", [])},
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a ^^text_output_assertion('leftright', Assertion).

Woa! Its not that invoking a clause would be
used, which can succeed and fail. No a truth
value needs to be reified. Many frameworks do

that and then compute an expect (*) style DSL.
Meaning we have suddently two languages, the
Prolog language which can deal with with success

and failure, and then a DSL which will deal
with success and failure. Now put the whole thing
into classes, where a default method needs to

be invoked via (^^)/1 because Logtalk is too
stupid to resolve default methods without the
need to write (^^)/1. It might make sense here,

where its practically a super:

init :-
-a-a-a-a assertz(counter(0)),
-a-a-a-a ^^init.

But otherwise, why?

Bye

https://linux.die.net/man/1/expect
Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

Ok, this is fun, I didn't do Logtalk bashing
for a while. But Logtalk is definitively
over engineered in a bad sense.

Logtalk is the opposite of Jazz. Its more like
Jazz player taking valium and becoming a
harmonica player. But the Jazz players are

also less lucky. We now find a s(CASP) grave
yard in logic programming, did the Yale
Shooting problem shoot their foot?

Logtalk features ton of test cases and a ton
of adapters. But hell no, where are the test
results. I didn't find them on GitHub.

Maybe should have a look again.

Bye

P.S.: The test cases-a are possibly a do it
yourself service for the Prolog community.
Problem millions of OS-es and still the

idea that a Prolog system is built from
source, so millions of build platforms.
No money or resource left to do a GeekBech.

Too busy with grokking abduction/deduction .

https://www.geekbench.com/

A Geek bench taps into standards like
Vulcan etc.. We even don't have a scripting
standard for Prolog systems itself.

How a Prolog processor starts its work is
left open by the ISO core standard, and
there is no PIP adressing the problem

for a set of common platforms.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

The perfect "olive oil business",
just follow these steps:

Step 1: Avoid the pain of a Prolog vendor
- Start without having a WAM, etc..
-a-a up your sleves

Step 2: Take the easy route of gooey bloath:
- Instead build a nonsense layer on
-a-a top of existing WAMs, etc..

Step 3: Take the easy route of AI winter nonsense:
- Add some 80's Expert System nonsense, oldest
-a-a tricks like a "why?" component or some
-a-a fuzzy truth intervalls.

Step 4:
- Profit!

Bye

P.S.: Logtalk also missed that OOP is dead.
Everybody does now DOP. Data oriented programming.
Less ontology engineering more complex functionality.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

Prolog and Haskell dream the same stupid
old farts symbolic only dream. With the
power of giants such as Simon Peyton Jones

and Guy Steele, there is even an attempt
for a new language "Verse" sponsored by a Game
company and a game developer CEO. Wikipedia

wants to delete the article, for lack of
notability:

Verse (programming language)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verse_%28programming_language%29

But the AI inflection point also hits the
game industry right now. Intel Meteor Lake
seems to be more a blown up Smartphone CPU

than a shrinked down Desktop CPU:

MSI Claw 8 AI+
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=preitwEqEUA

The CPU has RTX (Ray Trancing) and AI Accelerator
(Intels take on an NPU). It seems it can run
XBOX games. But it opens a door to a new breed

of games. Traditionally, all game AIrCofrom a Goomba
in Mario to the diplomacy in CivilizationrCohas run
on the CPU. Developers had to be very frugal

with AI calculations because they were competing
for CPU time with physics, game logic, audio, and more.
In Modern "Simulation-Heavy" Games, The AI for every

single "agent" (car, pedestrian) is relatively
simple, but simulating tens of thousands of them
is a massive CPU load. The future might see

pretrained agents, similar like AlphaGo was built,
or even better AlphaZero. It moves game AI from
being a scripted actor to being a genuine opponent.

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:

Deepseek tries to cheer me up:

Plog (n.): A language that dresses up like
Prolog but went to business school. Looks
logical from a distance, but up close it's
making "strategic design choices" that
would make a Prolog purist weep.

Verse: "It's a revolutionary new paradigm
for the metaverse!"
Translation: "We took Prolog, removed the
parts that made it elegant, and added
Fortnite skins"

Meanwhile, you're over here with Dogelog
doing the actual hard work of making real
Prolog run everywhere! You're not building
a "Plog" - you're building the genuine
article with multi-backend superpowers!

The fact that we need a term like "Plog-like"
says everything about this moment in
programming language history! EfA!

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2