Hi,
recently my last fluorescent tube gave up. The tube is not a common
length, so I did not find a LED replacement in the local shops (here in
the EU fluorescent are not sold any more).
The AI told me that I needed a T8 M type tube. I bought this one:
<https://www.amazon.es/dp/B0FFH79YRZ>
(you can select the language to English)
This type of tube is designed to keep the reactance (coil) of the lamp,
and need replacing the starter with a special starter. The web site was
not clear on the starter being included or not, so I bought a separate
one. Turned out that it was included, and I ended with two starters.
(I guessed that the thing would be just a short, perhaps fused.)
And instead of returning one, I disassembled it. See photos.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wvtAtSdo5eFU5CR8A
As you can see, it is just a fuse! 7.82re4.
On 02/09/2026 20:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Hi,
recently my last fluorescent tube gave up. The tube is not a common
length, so I did not find a LED replacement in the local shops (here
in the EU fluorescent are not sold any more).
The AI told me that I needed a T8 M type tube. I bought this one:
<https://www.amazon.es/dp/B0FFH79YRZ>
(you can select the language to English)
This type of tube is designed to keep the reactance (coil) of the
lamp, and need replacing the starter with a special starter. The web
site was not clear on the starter being included or not, so I bought a
separate one. Turned out that it was included, and I ended with two
starters.
(I guessed that the thing would be just a short, perhaps fused.)
And instead of returning one, I disassembled it. See photos.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wvtAtSdo5eFU5CR8A
As you can see, it is just a fuse! 7.82re4.
It's a fuse to avoid the situation that someone misguidedly rewires the fitting with LN supplied at one end[1], and then installs the LED lamp reversed, which will (without the fuse, but a dead short) cause a short
to the property electrics.
[1] Yup, you are meant to maintain the existing wiring done to both ends
of the lamp which are each connected in series across the supply.
On 2026-09-07 13:58, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 02/09/2026 20:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Hi,
recently my last fluorescent tube gave up. The tube is not a common
length, so I did not find a LED replacement in the local shops (here
in the EU fluorescent are not sold any more).
The AI told me that I needed a T8 M type tube. I bought this one:
<https://www.amazon.es/dp/B0FFH79YRZ>
(you can select the language to English)
This type of tube is designed to keep the reactance (coil) of the
lamp, and need replacing the starter with a special starter. The web
site was not clear on the starter being included or not, so I bought
a separate one. Turned out that it was included, and I ended with two
starters.
(I guessed that the thing would be just a short, perhaps fused.)
And instead of returning one, I disassembled it. See photos.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wvtAtSdo5eFU5CR8A
As you can see, it is just a fuse! 7.82re4.
It's a fuse to avoid the situation that someone misguidedly rewires
the fitting with LN supplied at one end[1], and then installs the LED
lamp reversed, which will (without the fuse, but a dead short) cause a
short to the property electrics.
[1] Yup, you are meant to maintain the existing wiring done to both
ends of the lamp which are each connected in series across the supply.
Yes, I understand why it is a fuse.
But they hide that fact and charge a lot for the trivial device.
Hi,
recently my last fluorescent tube gave up. The tube is not a common
length, so I did not find a LED replacement in the local shops (here in
the EU fluorescent are not sold any more).
The AI told me that I needed a T8 M type tube. I bought this one:
<https://www.amazon.es/dp/B0FFH79YRZ>
(you can select the language to English)
This type of tube is designed to keep the reactance (coil) of the lamp,
and need replacing the starter with a special starter. The web site was
not clear on the starter being included or not, so I bought a separate
one. Turned out that it was included, and I ended with two starters.
(I guessed that the thing would be just a short, perhaps fused.)
And instead of returning one, I disassembled it. See photos.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wvtAtSdo5eFU5CR8A
As you can see, it is just a fuse! 7.82C.
Well, it is easier to put that in than taking the lamp out and rewiring.
On Wed, 2 Sep 2026 21:29:08 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Hi,
recently my last fluorescent tube gave up. The tube is not a common
length, so I did not find a LED replacement in the local shops (here in
the EU fluorescent are not sold any more).
The AI told me that I needed a T8 M type tube. I bought this one:
<https://www.amazon.es/dp/B0FFH79YRZ>
(you can select the language to English)
This type of tube is designed to keep the reactance (coil) of the lamp,
and need replacing the starter with a special starter. The web site was
not clear on the starter being included or not, so I bought a separate
one. Turned out that it was included, and I ended with two starters.
(I guessed that the thing would be just a short, perhaps fused.)
And instead of returning one, I disassembled it. See photos.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wvtAtSdo5eFU5CR8A
As you can see, it is just a fuse! 7.82re4.
Well, it is easier to put that in than taking the lamp out and rewiring.
What you do will depend on how many fluorescent lamps and ballasts
that you're talking about.
There are many options and if you attack the issue piece-meal,
you're going to find that the market and the products available
are shifting - probably faster than the decisions you make each
time the problem of replacement parts arises.
Plug-in replacements are available. Some even have end-user
colour temperature adjustments.There's no guarantee that
these have any kind of demonstrated service life, or will be
available in the market on a long-term basis, regardless
of brand name.
This goes the same for anything requiring rewiring, but, if you
do rewire, be sure that what you end up with doesn't need
a working fluorescent ballast. That would be crazy. Even
insisting on the T8, T10 or other pin compatibility, is
probably a stretch.
LED 'ballasts' are supplied built into the replaceable element,
resulting in a safety-certified straight mains input.
Considering their poor demonstrated life performance, this will
continue to be industry practice, for low volume installations.
You can get cheap ETL certified 4 foot LED lamp assemblies that
have their own mounting hardware and versatile mains-compatible
connectors out of SE Asia (where all the fluorescent hardware
already originates, anyways).
I refitted a new storage area (series string of 4 x 4ft elements) with
this kind of thing for less than the cost of one replacement
fluorescent ballast.Two mechanical clips per element (single screw
each clip), allowing easy replacement. 'Barrina'
Couldn't guarantee they'd still be available in the next few years,
so I bought spares. . . . . Is the threat of lousy reliability just
a trick employed by fly-by-night mfring operations to increase
initial sales, before closing down?
On 2026-09-08 16:00, legg wrote:
On Wed, 2 Sep 2026 21:29:08 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Hi,
recently my last fluorescent tube gave up. The tube is not a common
length, so I did not find a LED replacement in the local shops (here in
the EU fluorescent are not sold any more).
The AI told me that I needed a T8 M type tube. I bought this one:
<https://www.amazon.es/dp/B0FFH79YRZ>
(you can select the language to English)
This type of tube is designed to keep the reactance (coil) of the lamp,
and need replacing the starter with a special starter. The web site was
not clear on the starter being included or not, so I bought a separate
one. Turned out that it was included, and I ended with two starters.
(I guessed that the thing would be just a short, perhaps fused.)
And instead of returning one, I disassembled it. See photos.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wvtAtSdo5eFU5CR8A
As you can see, it is just a fuse! 7.82C.
Well, it is easier to put that in than taking the lamp out and rewiring.
What you do will depend on how many fluorescent lamps and ballasts
that you're talking about.
Just the one. And I expect to move house within a year, thus I did not
want to rewire.
Expensive tube, though, charged as much for the tube as for the
transport. I had to accept it, as I could not find that size locally.
There are many options and if you attack the issue piece-meal,
you're going to find that the market and the products available
are shifting - probably faster than the decisions you make each
time the problem of replacement parts arises.
Plug-in replacements are available. Some even have end-user
colour temperature adjustments.There's no guarantee that
these have any kind of demonstrated service life, or will be
available in the market on a long-term basis, regardless
of brand name.
This goes the same for anything requiring rewiring, but, if you
do rewire, be sure that what you end up with doesn't need
a working fluorescent ballast. That would be crazy. Even
insisting on the T8, T10 or other pin compatibility, is
probably a stretch.
It is impossible to find true fluorescent tubes here, unless you stocked >them privately. Shops are prohibited from selling them, manufacturing
also prohibited.
LED 'ballasts' are supplied built into the replaceable element,
resulting in a safety-certified straight mains input.
Considering their poor demonstrated life performance, this will
continue to be industry practice, for low volume installations.
You can get cheap ETL certified 4 foot LED lamp assemblies that
have their own mounting hardware and versatile mains-compatible
connectors out of SE Asia (where all the fluorescent hardware
already originates, anyways).
I refitted a new storage area (series string of 4 x 4ft elements) with
this kind of thing for less than the cost of one replacement
fluorescent ballast.Two mechanical clips per element (single screw
each clip), allowing easy replacement. 'Barrina'
Couldn't guarantee they'd still be available in the next few years,
so I bought spares. . . . . Is the threat of lousy reliability just
a trick employed by fly-by-night mfring operations to increase
initial sales, before closing down?
Maybe LED replacement for fluorescent tubes can be expected to be sold
for many years, similarly to bulbs. There are trillions installed already.
I recently saw a shop front that was using replacement tubes to light
their luminous signage. And it was new. They simply cabled one end of
each tube; no reactance nor starter, so not M tube type. I didn't take a >photo.
*----------------//-------------------------*
L | |
-----------== ==
N | |
-----------== ==
| |
*----------------//-------------------------*
They used this <https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clema> (second photo) to >electrically connect the left end, and mechanically hold both ends,
screwed to the wood or plastic panel.
[...]
I just took the photo:
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/4JgRPp2ZC9rZiNQ49>
On Tue, 8 Sep 2026 21:44:43 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-09-08 16:00, legg wrote:
On Wed, 2 Sep 2026 21:29:08 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I refitted a new storage area (series string of 4 x 4ft elements) with
this kind of thing for less than the cost of one replacement
fluorescent ballast.Two mechanical clips per element (single screw
each clip), allowing easy replacement. 'Barrina'
Couldn't guarantee they'd still be available in the next few years,
so I bought spares. . . . . Is the threat of lousy reliability just
a trick employed by fly-by-night mfring operations to increase
initial sales, before closing down?
Maybe LED replacement for fluorescent tubes can be expected to be sold
for many years, similarly to bulbs. There are trillions installed already. >>
I recently saw a shop front that was using replacement tubes to light
their luminous signage. And it was new. They simply cabled one end of
each tube; no reactance nor starter, so not M tube type. I didn't take a
photo.
*----------------//-------------------------*
L | |
-----------== ==
N | |
-----------== ==
| |
*----------------//-------------------------*
They used this <https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clema> (second photo) to
electrically connect the left end, and mechanically hold both ends,
screwed to the wood or plastic panel.
[...]
I just took the photo:
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/4JgRPp2ZC9rZiNQ49>
Applying power to one end of those tubes make the other ends live,
(and hazardous). That's how they maintain physical reversability.
I don't see any kind of covering on those exposed ends.
There isn't much leeway in the actual employment of replacement tube
LED assemblies, to maintain public safety. Inlets, outlets, wiring,
ground bonding and terminal splices/connectors are all still pretty
well specified.
They should have kept the old mounting hardware, rewired it to fit
their new tubes and labelled it for the next guy who comes along.
Use as directed. All these tubes come with full instructions for--
use and restrictive warnings.
RL
On 2026-09-09 16:00, legg wrote:
On Tue, 8 Sep 2026 21:44:43 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-09-08 16:00, legg wrote:
On Wed, 2 Sep 2026 21:29:08 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I refitted a new storage area (series string of 4 x 4ft elements) with >>>> this kind of thing for less than the cost of one replacement
fluorescent ballast.Two mechanical clips per element (single screw
each clip), allowing easy replacement. 'Barrina'
Couldn't guarantee they'd still be available in the next few years,
so I bought spares. . . . . Is the threat of lousy reliability just
a trick employed by fly-by-night mfring operations to increase
initial sales, before closing down?
Maybe LED replacement for fluorescent tubes can be expected to be sold
for many years, similarly to bulbs. There are trillions installed already. >>>
I recently saw a shop front that was using replacement tubes to light
their luminous signage. And it was new. They simply cabled one end of
each tube; no reactance nor starter, so not M tube type. I didn't take a >>> photo.
*----------------//-------------------------*
L | |
-----------== ==
N | |
-----------== ==
| |
*----------------//-------------------------*
They used this <https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clema> (second photo) to
electrically connect the left end, and mechanically hold both ends,
screwed to the wood or plastic panel.
[...]
I just took the photo:
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/4JgRPp2ZC9rZiNQ49>
Applying power to one end of those tubes make the other ends live,
(and hazardous). That's how they maintain physical reversability.
I don't see any kind of covering on those exposed ends.
No, at least here. The other end in M tubes is just a short.
Reversability is achieved by the (old) housing.
L N
| |
*-----------* | |
*-------------| reactance |----* *--------------------*
| *-----------* |
| |
| *----------------//-------------------------* |
| | | |
*-------==-- *-==---*
| electronics | |
*-------==-- M type tube *-==---*
| | | |
| *----------------//-------------------------* |
| |
*------------------(/)------------------------------------*
starter
The type used in the photo is, AFAIK, not reversable. The active side,
that houses the electronics, is marked with an aluminum foil label that >wraps the tube circumference. The other end only does mechanical
support, and is not wired. To be reversable, the housing on both ends
has to be wired.
N
*-----------------------------*---------------------------------*
| |
| *-------------------------------*------------------------* |
| | L | |
| | | |
| | *----------------//-------------------------* | |
| | | | | |
| *------==-- ==---* |
| | electronics | |
*---------==-- ==-------*
| |
*----------------//-------------------------*
But I don't have one such tube to confirm it. The other possibility is:
N
*-----------------------------*
|
| *-------------------------------*
| | L
| |
| | *----------------//-------------------------*
| | | |
| *------==------------------+++----------------------==
| | electronics |
*---------==------------------+++----------------------==
| |
*----------------//-------------------------*
But those two internal wires might be seen from outside.
There isn't much leeway in the actual employment of replacement tube
LED assemblies, to maintain public safety. Inlets, outlets, wiring,
ground bonding and terminal splices/connectors are all still pretty
well specified.
They should have kept the old mounting hardware, rewired it to fit
their new tubes and labelled it for the next guy who comes along.
That's what they did on the photo. They removed the coil (you can see
the board is blackened where it was) and the starter, then rewired only
one end, kept the other for support, without any wire. You can see that
they place the tubes carefully with the label side on the wired side.
I have seen this method used here often in shop front lights.
I just took the photo:
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/4JgRPp2ZC9rZiNQ49>
On Tue, 8 Sep 2026 21:44:43 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I just took the photo:
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/4JgRPp2ZC9rZiNQ49>
The photo looks terrible. Worse, I don't really understand what I'm
seeing in the photo. Offhand, it looks like a pair of two different
lengths cobbled together. The T8 designation is for the width of the
tube (and not for the length). The length is determined by the
wattage of the lamp(s).
"T4/ T5/T8 Fluorescent Tube Sizing Guide & Product Selector" <https://www.electricalworld.com/en/T4-T5T8-Fluorescent-Tube-Sizing-Guide-and-Product-Selector/cc-59.aspx>
"The "T" in lamp terminology represents the shape of the lamp tubular.
The number following the "T" usually represents the diameter of the
lamp in eighths of an inch (1 inch equals 2.5 centimetres)."
What was the original length of the florescent tubes?
How many tubes were in the original fluorescent lighting fixture?
How many watts did each fluorescent tube consume?
It should be possible to find a combination of LED tubes that with fit
and work.
Disclaimer: I'm not an electrician.
To "legg". Thanks for the detailed explanations. I'm (slowly)
learning from them.
On Wed, 9 Sep 2026 19:54:27 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-09-09 16:00, legg wrote:
On Tue, 8 Sep 2026 21:44:43 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
They should have kept the old mounting hardware, rewired it to fit
their new tubes and labelled it for the next guy who comes along.
That's what they did on the photo. They removed the coil (you can see
the board is blackened where it was) and the starter, then rewired only
one end, kept the other for support, without any wire. You can see that
they place the tubes carefully with the label side on the wired side.
I have seen this method used here often in shop front lights.
I don't think it's possible to determine the original contents of the pictured light box. I'm guessing it originally housed 4 or 8 tubes
of identical size supported by conventional two-pin twist-lock end terminations, powered through 4 ballasts.
What's there now is completely jury-rigged. As most LED variants do
not use evacuated glass tubing, or mercury, concerns for their
mechanical protection may eventually be relaxed, but it's still
mains wiring and must be treated as such.
I've bought and disassembled a variety of LED fluorescent substitute
tubes. Those with L/N (ballast-free) end terminals complete the
reversible connection on their internal LED printed wiring, or in
one case, free wiring running behind the emmitter board for the
length of the tube ~ your last drawing.
I've run across one non-reversible variety (though all 4 pins are
still present for mech compatibility) with ends labelled 'A' and 'B'
that had specific wiring instructions on each tube's label. You had
to mark their housing appropriately with the same marks. I can't see
that type ever being accepted in volume, by the industry.
The duplication of the T-type packaging is simply to allow retrofit
into hardware that is already in service.
Those Barrina types I referred to were self supporting, with integral
safe 3-wire mains socketry at both ends (comes with), for serially
powered strings. You don't need the old hardware, but I suppose their mounting clips could be screwed into old boxes.
Some types are so poorly diffused that they are practically useless
outside of a box that provided diffusing screen layers below the
display advertising surface.
Prefab panels will employ basic light strips and a separate ballast
to produce the DC voltage and current levels required for the
configuration. Above 42V, these are still considered a potential
hazard.
Internal ballasts for fluorescent replacements will typically output
~43 or 65VDC, depending on tube length, at 50-150mA.
RL
On 2026-09-10 03:03, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 8 Sep 2026 21:44:43 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I just took the photo:
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/4JgRPp2ZC9rZiNQ49>
The photo looks terrible. Worse, I don't really understand what I'm
seeing in the photo. Offhand, it looks like a pair of two different
lengths cobbled together. The T8 designation is for the width of the
tube (and not for the length). The length is determined by the
wattage of the lamp(s).
It is a contraption I saw on the street. On top of that they put a
plastic sheet with lettering, name of the shop or such.
Yes, they combine tubes of different tube lengths, and as they will be >hidden, they don't need to be aligned.
I'm not sure if they are disassembling the old one, or reusing the base
to create a new one.
"T4/ T5/T8 Fluorescent Tube Sizing Guide & Product Selector"
<https://www.electricalworld.com/en/T4-T5T8-Fluorescent-Tube-Sizing-Guide-and-Product-Selector/cc-59.aspx>
"The "T" in lamp terminology represents the shape of the lamp tubular.
The number following the "T" usually represents the diameter of the
lamp in eighths of an inch (1 inch equals 2.5 centimetres)."
What was the original length of the florescent tubes?
How many tubes were in the original fluorescent lighting fixture?
How many watts did each fluorescent tube consume?
The T8 I mentioned was for a different luminary in my bathroom.
Originally 45 cm long from pin end to pin end, 15W.--
Mazda TFP 15W LJ/54 Made in Holland.
replaced with a
LED tube T8 EM V
5.4W 438mm 6500K
650 lm
Ledvance, Made in China.
It should be possible to find a combination of LED tubes that with fit
and work.
Disclaimer: I'm not an electrician.
To "legg". Thanks for the detailed explanations. I'm (slowly)
learning from them.
On Thu, 10 Sep 2026 10:17:06 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-09-10 03:03, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 8 Sep 2026 21:44:43 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I just took the photo:
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/4JgRPp2ZC9rZiNQ49>
The photo looks terrible. Worse, I don't really understand what I'm
seeing in the photo. Offhand, it looks like a pair of two different
lengths cobbled together. The T8 designation is for the width of the
tube (and not for the length). The length is determined by the
wattage of the lamp(s).
It is a contraption I saw on the street. On top of that they put a
plastic sheet with lettering, name of the shop or such.
Yes, they combine tubes of different tube lengths, and as they will be
hidden, they don't need to be aligned.
I'm not sure if they are disassembling the old one, or reusing the base
to create a new one.
Overlapping fluorescent tubes behind a plastic diffuser is going to
look awful. At best, there will be a hot spot where the tubes
overlap. I don't think anyone knows what they were planning,
including those doing the work. Do you have electrical wiring codes,
permits and inspections in Spain?
"Understanding Electricity Installation and Replacement in Spain" <https://www.immoabroad.com/spain/electrical-installation-replacement-in-spain-key-facts>
--"T4/ T5/T8 Fluorescent Tube Sizing Guide & Product Selector"
<https://www.electricalworld.com/en/T4-T5T8-Fluorescent-Tube-Sizing-Guide-and-Product-Selector/cc-59.aspx>
"The "T" in lamp terminology represents the shape of the lamp tubular.
The number following the "T" usually represents the diameter of the
lamp in eighths of an inch (1 inch equals 2.5 centimetres)."
What was the original length of the florescent tubes?
How many tubes were in the original fluorescent lighting fixture?
How many watts did each fluorescent tube consume?
The T8 I mentioned was for a different luminary in my bathroom.
Sorry, I didn't notice that when I first read the thread. I may have
caused the problem by my habit of reading the thread from the latest
to the earliest articles. Not having to repeatedly having to read
quoted text saves me quite a bit of time and effort. In the future,
I'll be more careful and also try to read between the lines.
Originally 45 cm long from pin end to pin end, 15W.
Mazda TFP 15W LJ/54 Made in Holland.
replaced with a
LED tube T8 EM V
5.4W 438mm 6500K
650 lm
Ledvance, Made in China.
It should be possible to find a combination of LED tubes that with fit
and work.
Disclaimer: I'm not an electrician.
To "legg". Thanks for the detailed explanations. I'm (slowly)
learning from them.
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