• Re: Watch antenna

    From Phil Hobbs@pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net to sci.electronics.design on Mon Mar 30 22:03:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    Der legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Mar 2026 13:15:32 -0400, joegwinn@comcast.net wrote:

    On Sun, 29 Mar 2026 12:24:30 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 07:42:46 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    [...]
    What are the benefits of using a shock-resistant antenna in Casio watches?
    i?4 How does the amorphous material in Casio antennas enhance radio signal
    reception?

    Could it be some sort of rubber-based ferrite (like the magnetic rubber >>>> strips around fridge doors)? Ordinary ferrite might shatter if you
    dropped the watch but rubber ferrite woudn't - it could also be moulded >>>> into a shape that would better fit the watch case or perhaps have better >>>> signal-gathering properties.


    The industry uses the term amorphous with no rigour.

    By definition it describes only a 'mixture' of materials. These
    could have magnetic or other properies.

    Most compressed dust cores meet this definition, as they depend
    on chemical binders and fillers to establish magnetic density
    and mechanical integrity.

    It has also been used to describe bonded magnetic particles
    in flexible media, treated during the curing process for
    particle polar alignment or other useful characteristics.

    The term has recently been used to describe alloyed metal strips,
    for no apparent reason, other than to describe a mixture of
    components in the alloy - something that has always been taken
    for granted.

    In industry, _amorphous_ has a precise meaning when speaking of
    metallic alloys, that there is no crystalline structure, that it has
    the (lack of) structure of a glass. So it's brittle but quite
    flexible if thin. So if a piece of such strip is bedded in something
    soft and flexible, the strip can be quite resistant to shock and
    vibration.

    Joe

    While metals are usually associated with ductile properies, alloys
    are created to increase strength and rigidity - also brittleness.

    In nanocrystaline alloys, the crystal structure of an alloy's particle
    is recognized, however: the manufacturing method attempts to
    distribute these particles in a disordered form - hence the
    improper use of the amorphous term (see the dictionary).

    These brittle materials' magnetic properties suffer if deformed after
    mrf and so tend to be created in as close-to-end-use form as is
    possible. Machining, as with glass, is difficult.

    Toroidal shapes formed by strip rolls can lose a half order of
    magnitude in permeability, simply due to later coil-winding
    pressure, or end-use mounting forces.

    The simplest physical demonstration of the material's mechanical
    properties is to crush an 'amobead' with pliers. These depend on
    a thin epoxy coating for mechanical integrity. Larger parts will
    have a plastic or metal/fibre casing, with mechanical buffering
    properties.

    RL


    The difference between nanocrystalline and amorphous solids is very real.
    It shows up unambiguously in xray crystallography.

    As I recall, in amorphous form the peaks due to second-nearest neighbors
    are smeared out and more distant ones basically go away.

    In powdered amorphous form, even the nearest neighbor peaks can disappear.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs
    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
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  • From someone@cffbf4deb9142bce48974efc0e64dede@example.com to sci.electronics.design on Mon Mar 30 23:30:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    Yes, a ferrite rod antenna is widely considered the best practical choice for receiving a 60 kHz plane wave (such as the WWVB or MSF time signals) due to its high selectivity and compact size.
    At 60 kHz, a full-sized half-wave dipole would be approximately 2.5 kilometers long, making traditional wire antennas highly impractical for most users.

    Why Ferrite Rods Excel at 60 kHz
    High Selectivity (Q Factor): Ferrite rods are "sharply tuned" resonant devices. This allows them to reject nearby electrical noise and interference from computers or power supplies that often plague the Very Low Frequency (VLF) band.
    Magnetic Field Sensitivity: Unlike wire antennas that respond to the electric field (which is more prone to local noise), ferrite rods respond to the magnetic component of the radio wave.
    Compact "Effective Area": The ferrite material concentrates magnetic flux, making a small rod perform like a much larger air-core loop.
    Directionality: You can rotate the rod to "null out" local interference or maximize the signal from the transmitter.

    -Google AI
    --
    For full context, visit https://www.electrondepot.com/electrodesign/watch-antenna-4399894-.htm

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  • From Jeff Layman@Jeff@invalid.invalid to sci.electronics.design on Tue Mar 31 10:28:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 31/03/2026 00:30, someone wrote:
    Yes, a ferrite rod antenna is widely considered the best practical choice for receiving a 60 kHz plane wave (such as the WWVB or MSF time signals) due to its high selectivity and compact size.
    At 60 kHz, a full-sized half-wave dipole would be approximately 2.5 kilometers long, making traditional wire antennas highly impractical for most users.

    Why Ferrite Rods Excel at 60 kHz
    High Selectivity (Q Factor): Ferrite rods are "sharply tuned" resonant devices. This allows them to reject nearby electrical noise and interference from computers or power supplies that often plague the Very Low Frequency (VLF) band.
    Magnetic Field Sensitivity: Unlike wire antennas that respond to the electric field (which is more prone to local noise), ferrite rods respond to the magnetic component of the radio wave.
    Compact "Effective Area": The ferrite material concentrates magnetic flux, making a small rod perform like a much larger air-core loop.
    Directionality: You can rotate the rod to "null out" local interference or maximize the signal from the transmitter.

    -Google AI

    That's what the theory might say, and perhaps in practice too. However,
    My watch has shown the "wrong" time in the morning when I looked at it
    after being right when I've gone to bed. This is what the Junghans
    manual for the watch states:

    "Junghans radio-controlled watches synchronise themselves with the DCF
    77 time signal transmitter every day. This is done during the night at
    02.00 and 03.00 hours. If interference (e.g. from thunderstorms, nearby electrical equipment, light dimmers etc.) makes it impossible for the
    time signal to be picked up at the first attempt, the Junghans radio-controlled watch will automatically make further attempts. Time synchronisation can also be carried out manually (e.g. in an area with
    better reception conditions) by using the watchrCOs transmitter call button."

    It confirms that reading of the DCF time signal can be interfered with.
    What I am unsure about is whether or not the signal can not only be
    interfered with so it /cannot/ be read, but /could/ be read from a
    source other than DCF 77 and misinterpreted. At least twice I have been wearing the watch during the afternoon and it has shown the wrong time
    when I've looked at it (it was correct in the morning). If the watch is supposed to synchronise only between 02.00 and 03.00, why did it change
    to the incorrect time during the day?
    --
    Jeff
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  • From Jan Panteltje@alien@comet.invalid to sci.electronics.design on Tue Mar 31 14:06:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>wrote:
    On 31/03/2026 00:30, someone wrote:
    Yes, a ferrite rod antenna is widely considered the best practical choice for receiving a 60 kHz plane wave (such as the WWVB
    or MSF time signals) due to its high selectivity and compact size.
    At 60 kHz, a full-sized half-wave dipole would be approximately 2.5 kilometers long, making traditional wire antennas highly
    impractical for most users.

    Why Ferrite Rods Excel at 60 kHz
    High Selectivity (Q Factor): Ferrite rods are "sharply tuned" resonant devices. This allows them to reject nearby electrical
    noise and interference from computers or power supplies that often plague the Very Low Frequency (VLF) band.
    Magnetic Field Sensitivity: Unlike wire antennas that respond to the electric field (which is more prone to local noise),
    ferrite rods respond to the magnetic component of the radio wave.
    Compact "Effective Area": The ferrite material concentrates magnetic flux, making a small rod perform like a much larger
    air-core loop.
    Directionality: You can rotate the rod to "null out" local interference or maximize the signal from the transmitter.

    -Google AI

    That's what the theory might say, and perhaps in practice too. However,
    My watch has shown the "wrong" time in the morning when I looked at it
    after being right when I've gone to bed. This is what the Junghans
    manual for the watch states:

    "Junghans radio-controlled watches synchronise themselves with the DCF
    77 time signal transmitter every day. This is done during the night at
    02.00 and 03.00 hours. If interference (e.g. from thunderstorms, nearby >electrical equipment, light dimmers etc.) makes it impossible for the
    time signal to be picked up at the first attempt, the Junghans >radio-controlled watch will automatically make further attempts. Time >synchronisation can also be carried out manually (e.g. in an area with >better reception conditions) by using the watchrCOs transmitter call button."

    It confirms that reading of the DCF time signal can be interfered with.
    What I am unsure about is whether or not the signal can not only be >interfered with so it /cannot/ be read, but /could/ be read from a
    source other than DCF 77 and misinterpreted. At least twice I have been >wearing the watch during the afternoon and it has shown the wrong time
    when I've looked at it (it was correct in the morning). If the watch is >supposed to synchronise only between 02.00 and 03.00, why did it change
    to the incorrect time during the day?

    What I usualy do is enable the watch to get the DCF77 time, check, and then disable 'auto update'.
    I do check from time to time, mine are about within 1 second (both my Casio) next day.
    My Xiron DCF77 clock is always running / updating, sitting on the table in the living room,
    have not seen an error in 10 years...my reference clock!

    Sure you can interfere with DCF77, record the time signal and play it back high power ...

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  • From someone@cffbf4deb9142bce48974efc0e64dede@example.com to sci.electronics.design on Tue Mar 31 17:45:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    Junghans is an established and excellent brand. My guess is if you want reliable reception, you have to remove it from your wrist at night and place it in a location known to have good reception, just like you do with a tabletop model. Otherwise there's no telling how the internal ferrite rod lines up with transmission orientation. Its axis should be perpendicular to direction of the transmitting tower.
    --
    For full context, visit https://www.electrondepot.com/electrodesign/watch-antenna-4399894-.htm

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