• USB ports

    From Don Y@blockedofcourse@foo.invalid to sci.electronics.design on Fri Aug 14 20:40:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On "business class" PC's, is it safe to assume the USB2 ports
    (front and back -- typically 4 or 5, total?) are handled by one
    controller and the USB3 ports by another?

    And, more specifically, that power supplied to the devices
    in each class are handled independant of each other? (i.e.,
    USB3 having more power delivery capability than USB2).

    Finally, is the power handling done with external (to the
    controller) FETs or passed directly through (particularly on
    the USB2 ports)?

    SWMBO's legacy desktop has developed a power problem
    with the USB2 ports (front and back). If power is passed
    internal to the controller, then it's just not worth my time
    to even open the case...
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  • From Lasse Langwadt@llc@fonz.dk to sci.electronics.design on Sat Aug 15 09:54:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 8/15/26 05:40, Don Y wrote:
    On "business class" PC's, is it safe to assume the USB2 ports
    (front and back -- typically 4 or 5, total?) are handled by one
    controller and the USB3 ports by another?

    And, more specifically, that power supplied to the devices
    in each class are handled independant of each other?-a (i.e.,
    USB3 having more power delivery capability than USB2).

    Finally, is the power handling done with external (to the
    controller) FETs or passed directly through (particularly on
    the USB2 ports)?

    SWMBO's legacy desktop has developed a power problem
    with the USB2 ports (front and back).-a If power is passed
    internal to the controller, then it's just not worth my time
    to even open the case...

    you should able to see how it is connected in the OS, devicemanager on windows, usbview et.al. in linux

    I think everything but the cheapest stuff will have a load switch per port
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  • From Martin Brown@'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk to sci.electronics.design on Sat Aug 15 13:32:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 15/08/2026 04:40, Don Y wrote:
    On "business class" PC's, is it safe to assume the USB2 ports
    (front and back -- typically 4 or 5, total?) are handled by one
    controller and the USB3 ports by another?

    It probably depends on age and number of USB ports.

    Some of mine have two USB controllers one for the set of four or six on
    the back and one for the pair on the front panel.

    And, more specifically, that power supplied to the devices
    in each class are handled independant of each other?-a (i.e.,
    USB3 having more power delivery capability than USB2).

    When USB3 was new then almost certainly a separate device but in the
    latest generation of systems I honestly don't know.

    Finally, is the power handling done with external (to the
    controller) FETs or passed directly through (particularly on
    the USB2 ports)?

    On USB2 I suspect mostly they are pass through. USB3 can use higher
    currents and voltages that may be done by an external FET.

    SWMBO's legacy desktop has developed a power problem
    with the USB2 ports (front and back).-a If power is passed
    internal to the controller, then it's just not worth my time
    to even open the case...

    Might be easier to interpose a powered hub between the offending ports
    and whatever you want to connect as a means of extending its life.
    --
    Martin Brown

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  • From Don Y@blockedofcourse@foo.invalid to sci.electronics.design on Sat Aug 15 05:56:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 8/15/2026 12:54 AM, Lasse Langwadt wrote:
    On 8/15/26 05:40, Don Y wrote:
    On "business class" PC's, is it safe to assume the USB2 ports
    (front and back -- typically 4 or 5, total?) are handled by one
    controller and the USB3 ports by another?

    And, more specifically, that power supplied to the devices
    in each class are handled independant of each other?-a (i.e.,
    USB3 having more power delivery capability than USB2).

    Finally, is the power handling done with external (to the
    controller) FETs or passed directly through (particularly on
    the USB2 ports)?

    SWMBO's legacy desktop has developed a power problem
    with the USB2 ports (front and back).-a If power is passed
    internal to the controller, then it's just not worth my time
    to even open the case...

    you should able to see how it is connected in the OS, devicemanager on windows,
    usbview et.al. in linux

    Ah, yes -- I forgot there is a "view by connection" option (that is
    not the default). Thanks!

    I think everything but the cheapest stuff will have a load switch per port

    That's what I feared. It doesn't make sense for EVERY port to
    exhibit the same sort of failure (and for the OS not to be
    complaining about it!)
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  • From Don Y@blockedofcourse@foo.invalid to sci.electronics.design on Sat Aug 15 07:18:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On "business class" PC's, is it safe to assume the USB2 ports
    (front and back -- typically 4 or 5, total?) are handled by one
    controller and the USB3 ports by another?

    It probably depends on age and number of USB ports.

    Some of mine have two USB controllers one for the set of four or six on the back and one for the pair on the front panel.

    There are a mixture of USB2 & USB3 ports in each location.
    AFAIK, controllers are USB2 (EHCI) or USB3 (XHCI); while
    the XHCI could handle USB2 speeds/devices, it seems like
    one would *advertise* all ports served by the XHCI as "SS"
    (which is not the case, here).

    And, more specifically, that power supplied to the devices
    in each class are handled independant of each other?-a (i.e.,
    USB3 having more power delivery capability than USB2).

    When USB3 was new then almost certainly a separate device but in the latest generation of systems I honestly don't know.

    Ditto. I'm not keen on taking things apart to find out.

    Finally, is the power handling done with external (to the
    controller) FETs or passed directly through (particularly on
    the USB2 ports)?

    On USB2 I suspect mostly they are pass through. USB3 can use higher currents and voltages that may be done by an external FET.

    SWMBO's legacy desktop has developed a power problem
    with the USB2 ports (front and back).-a If power is passed
    internal to the controller, then it's just not worth my time
    to even open the case...

    Might be easier to interpose a powered hub between the offending ports and whatever you want to connect as a means of extending its life.

    I thought of that but she's already got quite a collection of kit on her
    desk and one more would just add to the confusion. <frown>

    Taking Lasse's suggestion, I can see at least two EHCI and one XHCI.
    There are 6 ports on the rear and 4 up front. So, likely the XHCI
    conductors are split and the two EHCIO handle separate clusters
    of ports (front vs rear).

    Her "problem" manifested in all of the USB2 ports which suggested
    the *load* was more likely the problem (unless there was a seperate
    LDO feeding just the USB controllers). USB3 ports had no problem.

    OS did not throw an overcurrent warning (and shut down the port(s)).
    Yet, I can see the LEDs on the keyboard blinking randomly -- as if
    it was being plugged/unplugged rapidly (no OS announcement of this
    but I don't think the OS announces keyboard/mice events?)

    She had the mouse plugged into one of the two USB2 ports present on the keyboard (seems a logical choice). So, the ONE connection from the keyboard was representing TWO devices/loads.

    The absence of the overcurrent event suggests maybe the keyboard just
    couldn't handle the added load and *it* was misbehaving? An identical replacement keyboard exhibits the same problem. (though I didn't try
    to replace the mouse at the same time <frown>)

    Dunno. I rearranged her cables so each device had its own
    port, keeping the front ports free for thumb drives, etc.
    This *seems* to work -- I'm sure she'll let me know if it
    acts up, again. <frown> (it is no fun being an IT department!)

    I located an identical spare machine in my stash (actually, *two*!)
    so if it continues acting up, I'll just pull the disk and give
    her a "new" machine -- a lot easier than trying to install all her
    legacy software on a different make/model machine, given MS's fussiness!

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John R Walliker@jrwalliker@gmail.com to sci.electronics.design on Sat Aug 15 17:52:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 15/08/2026 15:18, Don Y wrote:
    On "business class" PC's, is it safe to assume the USB2 ports
    (front and back -- typically 4 or 5, total?) are handled by one
    controller and the USB3 ports by another?

    It probably depends on age and number of USB ports.

    Some of mine have two USB controllers one for the set of four or six
    on the back and one for the pair on the front panel.

    There are a mixture of USB2 & USB3 ports in each location.
    AFAIK, controllers are USB2 (EHCI) or USB3 (XHCI); while
    the XHCI could handle USB2 speeds/devices, it seems like
    one would *advertise* all ports served by the XHCI as "SS"
    (which is not the case, here).

    And, more specifically, that power supplied to the devices
    in each class are handled independant of each other?-a (i.e.,
    USB3 having more power delivery capability than USB2).

    When USB3 was new then almost certainly a separate device but in the
    latest generation of systems I honestly don't know.

    Ditto.-a I'm not keen on taking things apart to find out.

    Finally, is the power handling done with external (to the
    controller) FETs or passed directly through (particularly on
    the USB2 ports)?

    On USB2 I suspect mostly they are pass through. USB3 can use higher
    currents and voltages that may be done by an external FET.

    SWMBO's legacy desktop has developed a power problem
    with the USB2 ports (front and back).-a If power is passed
    internal to the controller, then it's just not worth my time
    to even open the case...

    Might be easier to interpose a powered hub between the offending ports
    and whatever you want to connect as a means of extending its life.

    I thought of that but she's already got quite a collection of kit on her
    desk and one more would just add to the confusion.-a <frown>

    Taking Lasse's suggestion, I can see at least two EHCI and one XHCI.
    There are 6 ports on the rear and 4 up front.-a So, likely the XHCI conductors are split and the two EHCIO handle separate clusters
    of ports (front vs rear).

    Her "problem" manifested in all of the USB2 ports which suggested
    the *load* was more likely the problem (unless there was a seperate
    LDO feeding just the USB controllers).-a USB3 ports had no problem.

    OS did not throw an overcurrent warning (and shut down the port(s)).
    Yet, I can see the LEDs on the keyboard blinking randomly -- as if
    it was being plugged/unplugged rapidly (no OS announcement of this
    but I don't think the OS announces keyboard/mice events?)

    She had the mouse plugged into one of the two USB2 ports present on the keyboard (seems a logical choice).-a So, the ONE connection from the keyboard
    was representing TWO devices/loads.

    The absence of the overcurrent event suggests maybe the keyboard just couldn't handle the added load and *it* was misbehaving?-a An identical replacement keyboard exhibits the same problem.-a (though I didn't try
    to replace the mouse at the same time-a <frown>)

    Dunno.-a I rearranged her cables so each device had its own
    port, keeping the front ports free for thumb drives, etc.
    This *seems* to work -- I'm sure she'll let me know if it
    acts up, again.-a <frown>-a (it is no fun being an IT department!)

    I located an identical spare machine in my stash (actually, *two*!)
    so if it continues acting up, I'll just pull the disk and give
    her a "new" machine -- a lot easier than trying to install all her
    legacy software on a different make/model machine, given MS's fussiness!


    It might be worth buying a USB power meter. It avoids a lot of
    guessing and costs very little.
    Some of them have USB-A and USB-C ports which covers all
    likely options.
    To avoid unnecessary cables I like to use a Bluetooth wireless
    mouse. Microsoft make some very cheap and reliable BT mice.
    They communicate with the BT transceiver inside the PC so there
    is no need for a USB dongle to communicate with the mouse.
    John

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  • From Don Y@blockedofcourse@foo.invalid to sci.electronics.design on Sat Aug 15 11:35:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 8/15/2026 9:52 AM, John R Walliker wrote:
    On 15/08/2026 15:18, Don Y wrote:
    On "business class" PC's, is it safe to assume the USB2 ports
    (front and back -- typically 4 or 5, total?) are handled by one
    controller and the USB3 ports by another?

    It probably depends on age and number of USB ports.

    Some of mine have two USB controllers one for the set of four or six on the
    back and one for the pair on the front panel.

    There are a mixture of USB2 & USB3 ports in each location.
    AFAIK, controllers are USB2 (EHCI) or USB3 (XHCI); while
    the XHCI could handle USB2 speeds/devices, it seems like
    one would *advertise* all ports served by the XHCI as "SS"
    (which is not the case, here).

    And, more specifically, that power supplied to the devices
    in each class are handled independant of each other?-a (i.e.,
    USB3 having more power delivery capability than USB2).

    When USB3 was new then almost certainly a separate device but in the latest
    generation of systems I honestly don't know.

    Ditto.-a I'm not keen on taking things apart to find out.

    Finally, is the power handling done with external (to the
    controller) FETs or passed directly through (particularly on
    the USB2 ports)?

    On USB2 I suspect mostly they are pass through. USB3 can use higher currents
    and voltages that may be done by an external FET.

    SWMBO's legacy desktop has developed a power problem
    with the USB2 ports (front and back).-a If power is passed
    internal to the controller, then it's just not worth my time
    to even open the case...

    Might be easier to interpose a powered hub between the offending ports and >>> whatever you want to connect as a means of extending its life.

    I thought of that but she's already got quite a collection of kit on her
    desk and one more would just add to the confusion.-a <frown>

    Taking Lasse's suggestion, I can see at least two EHCI and one XHCI.
    There are 6 ports on the rear and 4 up front.-a So, likely the XHCI
    conductors are split and the two EHCIO handle separate clusters
    of ports (front vs rear).

    Her "problem" manifested in all of the USB2 ports which suggested
    the *load* was more likely the problem (unless there was a seperate
    LDO feeding just the USB controllers).-a USB3 ports had no problem.

    OS did not throw an overcurrent warning (and shut down the port(s)).
    Yet, I can see the LEDs on the keyboard blinking randomly -- as if
    it was being plugged/unplugged rapidly (no OS announcement of this
    but I don't think the OS announces keyboard/mice events?)

    She had the mouse plugged into one of the two USB2 ports present on the
    keyboard (seems a logical choice).-a So, the ONE connection from the keyboard
    was representing TWO devices/loads.

    The absence of the overcurrent event suggests maybe the keyboard just
    couldn't handle the added load and *it* was misbehaving?-a An identical
    replacement keyboard exhibits the same problem.-a (though I didn't try
    to replace the mouse at the same time-a <frown>)

    Dunno.-a I rearranged her cables so each device had its own
    port, keeping the front ports free for thumb drives, etc.
    This *seems* to work -- I'm sure she'll let me know if it
    acts up, again.-a <frown>-a (it is no fun being an IT department!)

    I located an identical spare machine in my stash (actually, *two*!)
    so if it continues acting up, I'll just pull the disk and give
    her a "new" machine -- a lot easier than trying to install all her
    legacy software on a different make/model machine, given MS's fussiness!

    It might be worth buying a USB power meter.-a It avoids a lot of
    guessing and costs very little.

    Yeah, though I've never had a need for one, until now.
    (All sorts of things I *could* buy in anticipation of
    needing them...)

    Some of them have USB-A and USB-C ports which covers all
    likely options.
    To avoid unnecessary cables I like to use a Bluetooth wireless
    mouse.-a Microsoft make some very cheap and reliable BT mice.
    They communicate with the BT transceiver inside the PC so there
    is no need for a USB dongle to communicate with the mouse.
    No BT on her computer. She already has a cordless mouse and keyboard
    that reside in a desk drawer -- for use with a NUC that is reserved
    exclusively for ecommerce/banking (shares the monitor that she uses with
    her desktop machine -- previously used a laptop that lived on one of
    the desk's returns for that but laptops have tiny screens, icky keyboards, etc.)

    I don't understand why the PC didn't complain of "excessive power"
    and shut off the port. So, I assume it is just a failing in the design
    of the keyboard (as it manifests with another identical keyboard).
    Hard to imagine putting two extra USB-A in the keyboard if they
    can't be *used*!

    Perhaps I'll try booting a live CD and see if it provides more
    detailed diagnostic messages than Windows.

    But, for now, she is happy. (emphasis on "now" :< )
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