• Re: jacks

    From Jeff Liebermann@jeffl@cruzio.com to sci.electronics.design on Sun Jul 26 00:24:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Sat, 25 Jul 2026 15:31:33 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 25 Jul 2026 13:52:53 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 25 Jul 2026 19:18:08 +0200, Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk>
    wrote:

    On 7/20/26 18:55, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 16:48:12 -0000 (UTC), piglet
    <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:

    john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
    I got a email from a microwave site about jacks. As the mate for
    plugs?

    https://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/45986-mini-jacks

    English is such a messy language.



    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics


    Many years ago I was in Germany and had to translate a technical document >>>>> into English, my colleagues found it hilarious when I described connectors
    as Male and Female-thought I had a sex obsession.

    And some connectors, like SMBs, can have female plugs.

    Kinky.


    and there are hermaphrodites where there is only one type and they can mate >>
    and almost every RF connector is also available in RP (reverse
    polarity). For example:

    "AMPHENOL Reverse Polarity RF Connectors" >><https://www.mouser.com/catalog/645/1162.pdf>

    Perverse polarity.

    John Larkin

    The original RP connectors were contrived as a solution to the FCC
    demand that Wi-Fi devices and antennas must be certified as a complete
    system and therefore must be tested and sold as a complete system. The brilliant FCC bureaucrats were trying to prevent users from replacing
    low gain Wi-Fi antennas with larger antennas that offered superior
    performance. Good intentions, but not what manufacturers and users
    wanted. The FCC eventually allowed some exceptions, such as wireless microphones, but unique antenna connectors are still required for certification.

    FCC Part 15.203 <https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2011-title47-vol1/pdf/CFR-2011-title47-vol1-part15-subpartC.pdf>
    "An intentional radiator shall be designed to ensure that no antenna
    other than that furnished by the responsible party shall be used with
    the device.
    (...)
    The manufacturer may design the unit so that a broken antenna can be
    replaced by the user, but the use of a standard antenna jack or
    electrical connector is prohibited."
    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Liebermann@jeffl@cruzio.com to sci.electronics.design on Sun Jul 26 00:42:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 00:24:18 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    FCC Part 15.203 ><https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2011-title47-vol1/pdf/CFR-2011-title47-vol1-part15-subpartC.pdf>
    "An intentional radiator shall be designed to ensure that no antenna
    other than that furnished by the responsible party shall be used with
    the device.
    (...)
    The manufacturer may design the unit so that a broken antenna can be
    replaced by the user, but the use of a standard antenna jack or
    electrical connector is prohibited."

    Oops. I forgot to check the date. The above is from an old version
    of 15.203 and 15.204. Below is a later version that includes a longer
    list of exclusions, which allow some acceptable antenna substitutions
    and less rigid requirements for substitute antennas: <https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-15/subpart-C/section-15.203>
    <https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-15/subpart-C/section-15.204>
    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Don Y@blockedofcourse@foo.invalid to sci.electronics.design on Sun Jul 26 03:40:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 7/26/2026 12:24 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    The original RP connectors were contrived as a solution to the FCC
    demand that Wi-Fi devices and antennas must be certified as a complete
    system and therefore must be tested and sold as a complete system. The brilliant FCC bureaucrats were trying to prevent users from replacing
    low gain Wi-Fi antennas with larger antennas that offered superior performance. Good intentions, but not what manufacturers and users
    wanted. The FCC eventually allowed some exceptions, such as wireless microphones, but unique antenna connectors are still required for certification.

    FCC Part 15.203 <https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2011-title47-vol1/pdf/CFR-2011-title47-vol1-part15-subpartC.pdf>
    "An intentional radiator shall be designed to ensure that no antenna
    other than that furnished by the responsible party shall be used with
    the device.
    (...)
    The manufacturer may design the unit so that a broken antenna can be
    replaced by the user, but the use of a standard antenna jack or
    electrical connector is prohibited."
    But nothing prevents reversed connectors from being produced and
    sold... and used in place of the "standard" connector available
    on the purchased replacement.

    My cordless phone suffers from such a constraint. I wonder
    how I'll get around it?
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Liebermann@jeffl@cruzio.com to sci.electronics.design on Sun Jul 26 10:37:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 03:40:39 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 7/26/2026 12:24 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    The original RP connectors were contrived as a solution to the FCC
    demand that Wi-Fi devices and antennas must be certified as a complete
    system and therefore must be tested and sold as a complete system. The
    brilliant FCC bureaucrats were trying to prevent users from replacing
    low gain Wi-Fi antennas with larger antennas that offered superior
    performance. Good intentions, but not what manufacturers and users
    wanted. The FCC eventually allowed some exceptions, such as wireless
    microphones, but unique antenna connectors are still required for
    certification.

    FCC Part 15.203
    <https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2011-title47-vol1/pdf/CFR-2011-title47-vol1-part15-subpartC.pdf>
    "An intentional radiator shall be designed to ensure that no antenna
    other than that furnished by the responsible party shall be used with
    the device.
    (...)
    The manufacturer may design the unit so that a broken antenna can be
    replaced by the user, but the use of a standard antenna jack or
    electrical connector is prohibited."

    But nothing prevents reversed connectors from being produced and
    sold... and used in place of the "standard" connector available
    on the purchased replacement.

    I have a collection of appropriate jumper cables and adapters to deal
    with the Wi-Fi antenna connector compatibility problem. Most can be
    easily purchased online. However, I had to machine my own for obscure connectors, such as Metricom/Ricochet radios.

    My cordless phone suffers from such a constraint. I wonder
    how I'll get around it?

    Range extenders (bi-directional amplifiers), DECT repeaters, cell
    phone repeaters, RF power amplifiers, connector kits that replace a
    low gain handset/base antenna, coax cable extensions, rooftop
    antennas, phone patch, Iridium, Inmarsat, Globalstar, etc. Legality
    varies with location, country and jurisdiction.
    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Don Y@blockedofcourse@foo.invalid to sci.electronics.design on Sun Jul 26 11:07:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 7/26/2026 10:37 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 03:40:39 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 7/26/2026 12:24 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    The original RP connectors were contrived as a solution to the FCC
    demand that Wi-Fi devices and antennas must be certified as a complete
    system and therefore must be tested and sold as a complete system. The
    brilliant FCC bureaucrats were trying to prevent users from replacing
    low gain Wi-Fi antennas with larger antennas that offered superior
    performance. Good intentions, but not what manufacturers and users
    wanted. The FCC eventually allowed some exceptions, such as wireless
    microphones, but unique antenna connectors are still required for
    certification.

    FCC Part 15.203
    <https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2011-title47-vol1/pdf/CFR-2011-title47-vol1-part15-subpartC.pdf>
    "An intentional radiator shall be designed to ensure that no antenna
    other than that furnished by the responsible party shall be used with
    the device.
    (...)
    The manufacturer may design the unit so that a broken antenna can be
    replaced by the user, but the use of a standard antenna jack or
    electrical connector is prohibited."

    But nothing prevents reversed connectors from being produced and
    sold... and used in place of the "standard" connector available
    on the purchased replacement.

    I have a collection of appropriate jumper cables and adapters to deal
    with the Wi-Fi antenna connector compatibility problem. Most can be
    easily purchased online. However, I had to machine my own for obscure connectors, such as Metricom/Ricochet radios.

    My cordless phone suffers from such a constraint. I wonder
    how I'll get around it?

    Range extenders (bi-directional amplifiers), DECT repeaters, cell
    phone repeaters, RF power amplifiers, connector kits that replace a
    low gain handset/base antenna, coax cable extensions, rooftop
    antennas, phone patch, Iridium, Inmarsat, Globalstar, etc. Legality
    varies with location, country and jurisdiction.
    Problem is antenna cable (RG213U) length. Connector at the base station is reversed so I have to make a cable with mating connector *or* alter the base station (no-no) to accept a more conventional connector.
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Liebermann@jeffl@cruzio.com to sci.electronics.design on Sun Jul 26 11:42:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 11:07:36 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 7/26/2026 10:37 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 03:40:39 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 7/26/2026 12:24 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    The original RP connectors were contrived as a solution to the FCC
    demand that Wi-Fi devices and antennas must be certified as a complete >>>> system and therefore must be tested and sold as a complete system. The >>>> brilliant FCC bureaucrats were trying to prevent users from replacing
    low gain Wi-Fi antennas with larger antennas that offered superior
    performance. Good intentions, but not what manufacturers and users
    wanted. The FCC eventually allowed some exceptions, such as wireless
    microphones, but unique antenna connectors are still required for
    certification.

    FCC Part 15.203
    <https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2011-title47-vol1/pdf/CFR-2011-title47-vol1-part15-subpartC.pdf>
    "An intentional radiator shall be designed to ensure that no antenna
    other than that furnished by the responsible party shall be used with
    the device.
    (...)
    The manufacturer may design the unit so that a broken antenna can be
    replaced by the user, but the use of a standard antenna jack or
    electrical connector is prohibited."

    But nothing prevents reversed connectors from being produced and
    sold... and used in place of the "standard" connector available
    on the purchased replacement.

    I have a collection of appropriate jumper cables and adapters to deal
    with the Wi-Fi antenna connector compatibility problem. Most can be
    easily purchased online. However, I had to machine my own for obscure
    connectors, such as Metricom/Ricochet radios.

    My cordless phone suffers from such a constraint. I wonder
    how I'll get around it?

    Range extenders (bi-directional amplifiers), DECT repeaters, cell
    phone repeaters, RF power amplifiers, connector kits that replace a
    low gain handset/base antenna, coax cable extensions, rooftop
    antennas, phone patch, Iridium, Inmarsat, Globalstar, etc. Legality
    varies with location, country and jurisdiction.

    Problem is antenna cable (RG213U) length. Connector at the base station is >reversed so I have to make a cable with mating connector *or* alter the base >station (no-no) to accept a more conventional connector.

    RG-213/u is nice coax cable, but I prefer LMR-400. Same outside
    diameter and less loss. I'm too lazy to check prices, but I seem to
    recall that LMR-400 is also less expensive.

    I usually run my outside antennas with LMR-400 coax cable. However, I
    do NOT plug the heavy coaxial cable directly in the radio. Instead, I
    have a short jumper cable between the coaxial cable and the radio to
    prevent any excessive stresses. Losses from about 1 foot of more
    flexible cable are easily tolerated. This jumper cable is also where
    the RP adapters usually live. I sometimes do the same thing on the
    antenna end, in racks, in automobile installs, where a more flexible
    transition cable will prevent breaking connectors.

    I can't imagine what such heavy and stiff coaxial cable is doing
    directly attached to a light weight cordless phone base. Are you
    attempting to dominate the cordless phone spectrum in your
    neighborhood?

    "RG213 vs LMR400" <https://www.awcwire.com/allied-university/this-vs-that/rg213-vs-lmr400>
    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Don Y@blockedofcourse@foo.invalid to sci.electronics.design on Sun Jul 26 12:15:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 7/26/2026 11:42 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 11:07:36 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 7/26/2026 10:37 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 03:40:39 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 7/26/2026 12:24 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    The original RP connectors were contrived as a solution to the FCC
    demand that Wi-Fi devices and antennas must be certified as a complete >>>>> system and therefore must be tested and sold as a complete system. The >>>>> brilliant FCC bureaucrats were trying to prevent users from replacing >>>>> low gain Wi-Fi antennas with larger antennas that offered superior
    performance. Good intentions, but not what manufacturers and users
    wanted. The FCC eventually allowed some exceptions, such as wireless >>>>> microphones, but unique antenna connectors are still required for
    certification.

    FCC Part 15.203
    <https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2011-title47-vol1/pdf/CFR-2011-title47-vol1-part15-subpartC.pdf>
    "An intentional radiator shall be designed to ensure that no antenna >>>>> other than that furnished by the responsible party shall be used with >>>>> the device.
    (...)
    The manufacturer may design the unit so that a broken antenna can be >>>>> replaced by the user, but the use of a standard antenna jack or
    electrical connector is prohibited."

    But nothing prevents reversed connectors from being produced and
    sold... and used in place of the "standard" connector available
    on the purchased replacement.

    I have a collection of appropriate jumper cables and adapters to deal
    with the Wi-Fi antenna connector compatibility problem. Most can be
    easily purchased online. However, I had to machine my own for obscure
    connectors, such as Metricom/Ricochet radios.

    My cordless phone suffers from such a constraint. I wonder
    how I'll get around it?

    Range extenders (bi-directional amplifiers), DECT repeaters, cell
    phone repeaters, RF power amplifiers, connector kits that replace a
    low gain handset/base antenna, coax cable extensions, rooftop
    antennas, phone patch, Iridium, Inmarsat, Globalstar, etc. Legality
    varies with location, country and jurisdiction.

    Problem is antenna cable (RG213U) length. Connector at the base station is >> reversed so I have to make a cable with mating connector *or* alter the base >> station (no-no) to accept a more conventional connector.

    RG-213/u is nice coax cable, but I prefer LMR-400. Same outside
    diameter and less loss. I'm too lazy to check prices, but I seem to
    recall that LMR-400 is also less expensive.

    No idea. The antenna came with RG213U and "the right connectors".

    I usually run my outside antennas with LMR-400 coax cable. However, I
    do NOT plug the heavy coaxial cable directly in the radio. Instead, I
    have a short jumper cable between the coaxial cable and the radio to
    prevent any excessive stresses. Losses from about 1 foot of more
    flexible cable are easily tolerated.

    Ah, that's worth knowing. The cable will be in the walls but will need
    to exit (at a Jbox) and connect to the base unit. Making that sort
    of a bend AND allowing for the base unit to be removable (disconnectable?)
    is a tough challenge.

    This jumper cable is also where
    the RP adapters usually live. I sometimes do the same thing on the
    antenna end, in racks, in automobile installs, where a more flexible transition cable will prevent breaking connectors.

    I can't imagine what such heavy and stiff coaxial cable is doing
    directly attached to a light weight cordless phone base. Are you
    attempting to dominate the cordless phone spectrum in your
    neighborhood?

    900mW handset. With the *indoor* antenna on the base unit, I can
    get about half a mile of coverage in this "low spot". I am hoping
    roof mounting the antenna (hence the length of coax) will let me get
    beyond the subdivision -- a mile would be nice.

    I'll build the handset into the car and let it connect to The House
    for those cases when I leave the house (or am approaching the house)
    and need to "tell it" something (or, have it tell ME something: "You
    left the washing machine on; should I turn it off or will you be right
    back?"

    It's the "narrow & long" pipe to the car contrasted to the short and fat
    one that is used to deliver video, etc. when "near" the house.

    [I don't want to have to develop any radios so will just repurpose
    COTS devices within the constraints under which they are licensed]

    "RG213 vs LMR400" <https://www.awcwire.com/allied-university/this-vs-that/rg213-vs-lmr400>


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From someone@2a59d59e3809f827ce709d3815e3950eef4a6a93af5557a93a7fdfba71460843@example.com to sci.electronics.design on Mon Jul 27 02:30:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    Oxford English Dictionary doesn't know what it's talking about?
    --
    For full context, visit https://www.electrondepot.com/electrodesign/jacks-4406789-.htm

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bill Sloman@bill.sloman@ieee.org to sci.electronics.design on Tue Jul 28 00:50:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 27/07/2026 12:30 pm, someone wrote:
    Oxford English Dictionary doesn't know what it's talking about?

    It concentrates on the meaning of words, rather than the mechanics of language.

    My wife was primarily a psycholinguist, though she did start off as a linguist.

    https://royalsociety.org/people/anne-cutler-11296/
    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From john larkin@jl@glen--canyon.com to sci.electronics.design on Mon Jul 27 08:31:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 02:30:01 +0000, someone <2a59d59e3809f827ce709d3815e3950eef4a6a93af5557a93a7fdfba71460843@example.com> wrote:

    Oxford English Dictionary doesn't know what it's talking about?

    https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=run

    Now since I referenced the OED, it must be all wrong.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From john larkin@jl@glen--canyon.com to sci.electronics.design on Mon Jul 27 08:34:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 08:31:34 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 02:30:01 +0000, someone ><2a59d59e3809f827ce709d3815e3950eef4a6a93af5557a93a7fdfba71460843@example.com> >wrote:

    Oxford English Dictionary doesn't know what it's talking about?

    https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=run

    Now since I referenced the OED, it must be all wrong.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    Some people call a PCB trace a "run."


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Simon Simple@nothanks@nottoday.co.uk to sci.electronics.design on Mon Jul 27 17:00:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 27/07/2026 16:34, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 08:31:34 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 02:30:01 +0000, someone
    <2a59d59e3809f827ce709d3815e3950eef4a6a93af5557a93a7fdfba71460843@example.com>
    wrote:

    Oxford English Dictionary doesn't know what it's talking about?

    https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=run

    Now since I referenced the OED, it must be all wrong.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    Some people call a PCB trace a "run."

    'Track' is (or was) more common here.
    --
    SS


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Simon Simple@nothanks@nottoday.co.uk to sci.electronics.design on Mon Jul 27 17:01:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 20/07/2026 16:54, john larkin wrote:
    I got a email from a microwave site about jacks. As the mate for
    plugs?

    https://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/45986-mini-jacks

    English is such a messy language.

    Can be messy, the 'jacks' is quite commonly used in Ireland for what we
    call a 'khazi'.
    --
    SS


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From john larkin@jl@glen--canyon.com to sci.electronics.design on Mon Jul 27 09:25:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 17:00:46 +0100, Simon Simple
    <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 27/07/2026 16:34, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 08:31:34 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 02:30:01 +0000, someone
    <2a59d59e3809f827ce709d3815e3950eef4a6a93af5557a93a7fdfba71460843@example.com>
    wrote:

    Oxford English Dictionary doesn't know what it's talking about?

    https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=run

    Now since I referenced the OED, it must be all wrong.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    Some people call a PCB trace a "run."

    'Track' is (or was) more common here.

    We usually say "trace."

    I bet "trace" has a lot of meanings too.

    We also have pours and planes and sometimes floods.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From joegwinn@joegwinn@comcast.net to sci.electronics.design on Mon Jul 27 13:43:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 17:00:46 +0100, Simon Simple
    <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 27/07/2026 16:34, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 08:31:34 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 02:30:01 +0000, someone
    <2a59d59e3809f827ce709d3815e3950eef4a6a93af5557a93a7fdfba71460843@example.com>
    wrote:

    Oxford English Dictionary doesn't know what it's talking about?

    https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=run

    Now since I referenced the OED, it must be all wrong.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    Some people call a PCB trace a "run."

    'Track' is (or was) more common here.

    I think that the term "run" (meaning a trace) descended from when
    logic signals were carried on wires and PCBs were very crude and
    small. Think wire wrap boards.

    Joe
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From john larkin@jl@htigct.com to sci.electronics.design on Mon Jul 27 10:43:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 17:01:16 +0100, Simon Simple
    <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 20/07/2026 16:54, john larkin wrote:
    I got a email from a microwave site about jacks. As the mate for
    plugs?

    https://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/45986-mini-jacks

    English is such a messy language.

    Can be messy, the 'jacks' is quite commonly used in Ireland for what we
    call a 'khazi'.

    Do you have indoor plumbing yet?

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Liebermann@jeffl@cruzio.com to sci.electronics.design on Mon Jul 27 14:16:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 12:15:19 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 7/26/2026 11:42 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 11:07:36 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 7/26/2026 10:37 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 03:40:39 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 7/26/2026 12:24 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    The original RP connectors were contrived as a solution to the FCC >>>>>> demand that Wi-Fi devices and antennas must be certified as a complete >>>>>> system and therefore must be tested and sold as a complete system. The >>>>>> brilliant FCC bureaucrats were trying to prevent users from replacing >>>>>> low gain Wi-Fi antennas with larger antennas that offered superior >>>>>> performance. Good intentions, but not what manufacturers and users >>>>>> wanted. The FCC eventually allowed some exceptions, such as wireless >>>>>> microphones, but unique antenna connectors are still required for
    certification.

    FCC Part 15.203
    <https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2011-title47-vol1/pdf/CFR-2011-title47-vol1-part15-subpartC.pdf>
    "An intentional radiator shall be designed to ensure that no antenna >>>>>> other than that furnished by the responsible party shall be used with >>>>>> the device.
    (...)
    The manufacturer may design the unit so that a broken antenna can be >>>>>> replaced by the user, but the use of a standard antenna jack or
    electrical connector is prohibited."

    But nothing prevents reversed connectors from being produced and
    sold... and used in place of the "standard" connector available
    on the purchased replacement.

    I have a collection of appropriate jumper cables and adapters to deal
    with the Wi-Fi antenna connector compatibility problem. Most can be
    easily purchased online. However, I had to machine my own for obscure >>>> connectors, such as Metricom/Ricochet radios.

    My cordless phone suffers from such a constraint. I wonder
    how I'll get around it?

    Range extenders (bi-directional amplifiers), DECT repeaters, cell
    phone repeaters, RF power amplifiers, connector kits that replace a
    low gain handset/base antenna, coax cable extensions, rooftop
    antennas, phone patch, Iridium, Inmarsat, Globalstar, etc. Legality
    varies with location, country and jurisdiction.

    Problem is antenna cable (RG213U) length. Connector at the base station is >>> reversed so I have to make a cable with mating connector *or* alter the base
    station (no-no) to accept a more conventional connector.

    RG-213/u is nice coax cable, but I prefer LMR-400. Same outside
    diameter and less loss. I'm too lazy to check prices, but I seem to
    recall that LMR-400 is also less expensive.

    No idea. The antenna came with RG213U and "the right connectors".

    From the size of the connector and coax cable, my guess(tm) is that
    your cordless phone and antenna are operating either at 2.4 to 2.45GHz
    (Wi-Fi or ISM) or on DECT frequencies (about 2GHz).

    I usually run my outside antennas with LMR-400 coax cable. However, I
    do NOT plug the heavy coaxial cable directly in the radio. Instead, I
    have a short jumper cable between the coaxial cable and the radio to
    prevent any excessive stresses. Losses from about 1 foot of more
    flexible cable are easily tolerated.

    Ah, that's worth knowing. The cable will be in the walls but will need
    to exit (at a Jbox) and connect to the base unit. Making that sort
    of a bend AND allowing for the base unit to be removable (disconnectable?)
    is a tough challenge.

    You might want to check the data sheet for your RG213/u coax cable for
    the minimum bend radius. This can vary by manufacturer. The
    rule-of-thumb is nothing less than 10 times the cable OD (outside
    diameter). For about 0.405 inch outside diameter, that will be about
    4 inches minimum bend radius. That will be a very tight fit into a
    common 4 x 4 x 1.5 inch junction box.

    Assuming you're using N type coax connectors, you can insert a right
    angle connector to deal with the minimum bend radius problem. <https://www.google.com/search?udm=2&q=right%20angle%20n%20connector>
    I strongly recommend you use crimp type RF connectors instead of screw
    together solderable connectors.

    You might also need waterproofing if you use outdoor RF connectors.
    Adhesive lined shrink tubing works, but is a mess to repair or remove.
    I just spiral wrap the connector with 1/2" wide Teflon plumbing tape
    followed by a layer of Scotch 88 "all weather" electrical tape, to
    hold the Teflon tape in place.

    This jumper cable is also where
    the RP adapters usually live. I sometimes do the same thing on the
    antenna end, in racks, in automobile installs, where a more flexible
    transition cable will prevent breaking connectors.

    I can't imagine what such heavy and stiff coaxial cable is doing
    directly attached to a light weight cordless phone base. Are you
    attempting to dominate the cordless phone spectrum in your
    neighborhood?

    900mW handset. With the *indoor* antenna on the base unit, I can
    get about half a mile of coverage in this "low spot". I am hoping
    roof mounting the antenna (hence the length of coax) will let me get
    beyond the subdivision -- a mile would be nice.

    I'll build the handset into the car and let it connect to The House
    for those cases when I leave the house (or am approaching the house)
    and need to "tell it" something (or, have it tell ME something: "You
    left the washing machine on; should I turn it off or will you be right
    back?"

    It's the "narrow & long" pipe to the car contrasted to the short and fat
    one that is used to deliver video, etc. when "near" the house.

    [I don't want to have to develop any radios so will just repurpose
    COTS devices within the constraints under which they are licensed]

    Methinks I'll stop at this point. I have a reputation and license to
    protect. Posting detailed instructions on how to circumvent FCC rules
    might attract unwanted attention. Good luck with whatever you're
    plotting.

    "FCC Enforcement Actions"
    <https://www.fcc.gov/enforcement/orders>

    "RG213 vs LMR400"
    <https://www.awcwire.com/allied-university/this-vs-that/rg213-vs-lmr400>

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Don Y@blockedofcourse@foo.invalid to sci.electronics.design on Mon Jul 27 15:39:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 7/27/2026 2:16 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

    I have a collection of appropriate jumper cables and adapters to deal >>>>> with the Wi-Fi antenna connector compatibility problem. Most can be >>>>> easily purchased online. However, I had to machine my own for obscure >>>>> connectors, such as Metricom/Ricochet radios.

    My cordless phone suffers from such a constraint. I wonder
    how I'll get around it?

    Range extenders (bi-directional amplifiers), DECT repeaters, cell
    phone repeaters, RF power amplifiers, connector kits that replace a
    low gain handset/base antenna, coax cable extensions, rooftop
    antennas, phone patch, Iridium, Inmarsat, Globalstar, etc. Legality >>>>> varies with location, country and jurisdiction.

    Problem is antenna cable (RG213U) length. Connector at the base station is
    reversed so I have to make a cable with mating connector *or* alter the base
    station (no-no) to accept a more conventional connector.

    RG-213/u is nice coax cable, but I prefer LMR-400. Same outside
    diameter and less loss. I'm too lazy to check prices, but I seem to
    recall that LMR-400 is also less expensive.

    No idea. The antenna came with RG213U and "the right connectors".

    From the size of the connector and coax cable, my guess(tm) is that
    your cordless phone and antenna are operating either at 2.4 to 2.45GHz
    (Wi-Fi or ISM) or on DECT frequencies (about 2GHz).

    920MHz

    I usually run my outside antennas with LMR-400 coax cable. However, I
    do NOT plug the heavy coaxial cable directly in the radio. Instead, I
    have a short jumper cable between the coaxial cable and the radio to
    prevent any excessive stresses. Losses from about 1 foot of more
    flexible cable are easily tolerated.

    Ah, that's worth knowing. The cable will be in the walls but will need
    to exit (at a Jbox) and connect to the base unit. Making that sort
    of a bend AND allowing for the base unit to be removable (disconnectable?) >> is a tough challenge.

    You might want to check the data sheet for your RG213/u coax cable for
    the minimum bend radius.

    Already have. It's *huge*. That's what put me off on the idea of
    running it inside. You'd need a 12" thick wall to comfortably make
    the bend.

    I've been looking into putting the base out in the garage (there is no
    real need for it to be "conveniently accessible" as it can be accessed
    via the telco wiring -- and power is almost ubiquitous.

    [Problem there is access to the house's "earth"]

    This can vary by manufacturer. The
    rule-of-thumb is nothing less than 10 times the cable OD (outside
    diameter). For about 0.405 inch outside diameter, that will be about
    4 inches minimum bend radius. That will be a very tight fit into a
    common 4 x 4 x 1.5 inch junction box.

    You can get 411 boxes that are a little bigger. But, that's still
    the wrong approach.

    You wouldn't bend the cable in the box. Instead, feed it in directly and
    use a fitting to make the turn. But, that adds more losses... (keep
    in mind, you still need a fitting outside the box to transition to
    the base unit)

    Assuming you're using N type coax connectors, you can insert a right
    angle connector to deal with the minimum bend radius problem. <https://www.google.com/search?udm=2&q=right%20angle%20n%20connector>

    Yes. But, it's still less than ideal. It forces the cable to
    take a certain position in the box, etc.

    I strongly recommend you use crimp type RF connectors instead of screw together solderable connectors.

    You might also need waterproofing if you use outdoor RF connectors.
    Adhesive lined shrink tubing works, but is a mess to repair or remove.
    I just spiral wrap the connector with 1/2" wide Teflon plumbing tape
    followed by a layer of Scotch 88 "all weather" electrical tape, to
    hold the Teflon tape in place.

    This jumper cable is also where
    the RP adapters usually live. I sometimes do the same thing on the
    antenna end, in racks, in automobile installs, where a more flexible
    transition cable will prevent breaking connectors.

    I can't imagine what such heavy and stiff coaxial cable is doing
    directly attached to a light weight cordless phone base. Are you
    attempting to dominate the cordless phone spectrum in your
    neighborhood?

    900mW handset. With the *indoor* antenna on the base unit, I can
    get about half a mile of coverage in this "low spot". I am hoping
    roof mounting the antenna (hence the length of coax) will let me get
    beyond the subdivision -- a mile would be nice.

    I'll build the handset into the car and let it connect to The House
    for those cases when I leave the house (or am approaching the house)
    and need to "tell it" something (or, have it tell ME something: "You
    left the washing machine on; should I turn it off or will you be right
    back?"

    It's the "narrow & long" pipe to the car contrasted to the short and fat
    one that is used to deliver video, etc. when "near" the house.

    [I don't want to have to develop any radios so will just repurpose
    COTS devices within the constraints under which they are licensed]

    Methinks I'll stop at this point. I have a reputation and license to protect. Posting detailed instructions on how to circumvent FCC rules
    might attract unwanted attention. Good luck with whatever you're
    plotting.

    I don't see anything I am doing as subverting or avoiding regulations.
    The emissions at the antenna will only be *less* than licensed. And,
    operating a handset from a moving vehicle is not illegal. Also,
    ensuring that the link is used for voice (even if computer generated)
    to steer clear of any such restrictions.

    "FCC Enforcement Actions"
    <https://www.fcc.gov/enforcement/orders>

    "RG213 vs LMR400"
    <https://www.awcwire.com/allied-university/this-vs-that/rg213-vs-lmr400>

    Have a few hams in the neighborhood who've been giving me alternatives.
    Hence the "use COTS devices" instead of making something "unique" that
    attracts attention.

    Note that I also have cell phones as a long distance pipe -- but, making the connection takes time and you assume the vehicle wants to remain in motion,
    not stop just to take that call.

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bill Sloman@bill.sloman@ieee.org to sci.electronics.design on Tue Jul 28 15:49:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 28/07/2026 1:31 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 02:30:01 +0000, someone <2a59d59e3809f827ce709d3815e3950eef4a6a93af5557a93a7fdfba71460843@example.com>
    wrote:

    Oxford English Dictionary doesn't know what it's talking about?

    https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=run

    Now since I referenced the OED, it must be all wrong.

    It certainly wasn't "all wrong", just irrelevant to the argument. John
    Larkin has a habit of trying to swing in heavy weight sources where they aren't actually relevant. It's not necessarily malicious - he just
    doesn't know what he's doing.
    --
    Bill sloman. Sydney

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bill Sloman@bill.sloman@ieee.org to sci.electronics.design on Tue Jul 28 18:29:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 28/07/2026 2:01 am, Simon Simple wrote:
    On 20/07/2026 16:54, john larkin wrote:
    I got a email from a microwave site about jacks. As the mate for
    plugs?

    https://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/45986-mini-jacks

    English is such a messy language.

    Can be messy, the 'jacks' is quite commonly used in Ireland for what we
    call a 'khazi'.

    The spelling I'm familiar with is "jakes", and that is from old books.

    https://earlymodernstudiesjournal.org/review_articles/the-metamorphosis-of-ajax-jakes-and-early-modern-urban-sanitation/

    The text referred to was written in 1596, in England.
    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Simon Simple@nothanks@nottoday.co.uk to sci.electronics.design on Tue Jul 28 09:57:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 27/07/2026 18:43, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 17:01:16 +0100, Simon Simple
    <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 20/07/2026 16:54, john larkin wrote:
    I got a email from a microwave site about jacks. As the mate for
    plugs?

    https://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/45986-mini-jacks

    English is such a messy language.

    Can be messy, the 'jacks' is quite commonly used in Ireland for what we
    call a 'khazi'.

    Do you have indoor plumbing yet?

    Yes, we do now. Not till we moved when I was 10 though. In our case, it
    was part of the terrace house at the back but you had to go out of the
    kitchen door, walk maybe three yards then in the toilet door.
    Tracing-paper style bogroll too. Izal Medicated.

    In some of the houses you still had to walk to the end of the (short)
    garden.

    Nonetheless, think what a massive public health benefit that was.
    --
    SS

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From john larkin@jl@glen--canyon.com to sci.electronics.design on Tue Jul 28 08:22:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Tue, 28 Jul 2026 15:49:06 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 28/07/2026 1:31 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 02:30:01 +0000, someone
    <2a59d59e3809f827ce709d3815e3950eef4a6a93af5557a93a7fdfba71460843@example.com>
    wrote:

    Oxford English Dictionary doesn't know what it's talking about?

    https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=run

    Now since I referenced the OED, it must be all wrong.

    It certainly wasn't "all wrong", just irrelevant to the argument. John >Larkin has a habit of trying to swing in heavy weight sources where they >aren't actually relevant. It's not necessarily malicious - he just
    doesn't know what he's doing.

    OK, give us the single Sloman-approved definition of "run."


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From john larkin@jl@glen--canyon.com to sci.electronics.design on Tue Jul 28 08:25:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Tue, 28 Jul 2026 09:57:50 +0100, Simon Simple
    <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 27/07/2026 18:43, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 17:01:16 +0100, Simon Simple
    <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 20/07/2026 16:54, john larkin wrote:
    I got a email from a microwave site about jacks. As the mate for
    plugs?

    https://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/45986-mini-jacks

    English is such a messy language.

    Can be messy, the 'jacks' is quite commonly used in Ireland for what we
    call a 'khazi'.

    Do you have indoor plumbing yet?

    Yes, we do now. Not till we moved when I was 10 though. In our case, it
    was part of the terrace house at the back but you had to go out of the >kitchen door, walk maybe three yards then in the toilet door.
    Tracing-paper style bogroll too. Izal Medicated.

    In some of the houses you still had to walk to the end of the (short) >garden.

    Nonetheless, think what a massive public health benefit that was.

    I had friends and relatives with septic tanks in their back yards. And
    some grew veggies to eat. No wonder "stomach viruses" were so common
    back then.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bill Sloman@bill.sloman@ieee.org to sci.electronics.design on Wed Jul 29 16:45:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 29/07/2026 1:22 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 28 Jul 2026 15:49:06 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 28/07/2026 1:31 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 02:30:01 +0000, someone
    <2a59d59e3809f827ce709d3815e3950eef4a6a93af5557a93a7fdfba71460843@example.com>
    wrote:

    Oxford English Dictionary doesn't know what it's talking about?

    https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=run

    Now since I referenced the OED, it must be all wrong.

    It certainly wasn't "all wrong", just irrelevant to the argument. John
    Larkin has a habit of trying to swing in heavy weight sources where they
    aren't actually relevant. It's not necessarily malicious - he just
    doesn't know what he's doing.

    OK, give us the single Sloman-approved definition of "run."

    That wasn't what we were talking about. There's no controversy about
    single words having different meanings, depending on where and how they
    were used.

    Meaning is context dependent.

    I posted a link to "garden path sentences" which got snipped almost immediately, which should make the point blindingly obvious, if you
    actually read it.
    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bill Sloman@bill.sloman@ieee.org to sci.electronics.design on Wed Jul 29 16:55:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 29/07/2026 1:25 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 28 Jul 2026 09:57:50 +0100, Simon Simple
    <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 27/07/2026 18:43, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 17:01:16 +0100, Simon Simple
    <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 20/07/2026 16:54, john larkin wrote:
    I got a email from a microwave site about jacks. As the mate for
    plugs?

    https://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/45986-mini-jacks

    English is such a messy language.

    Can be messy, the 'jacks' is quite commonly used in Ireland for what we >>>> call a 'khazi'.

    Do you have indoor plumbing yet?

    Yes, we do now. Not till we moved when I was 10 though. In our case, it
    was part of the terrace house at the back but you had to go out of the
    kitchen door, walk maybe three yards then in the toilet door.
    Tracing-paper style bogroll too. Izal Medicated.

    In some of the houses you still had to walk to the end of the (short)
    garden.

    Nonetheless, think what a massive public health benefit that was.

    I had friends and relatives with septic tanks in their back yards. And
    some grew veggies to eat. No wonder "stomach viruses" were so common
    back then.

    Aerobic fermentation gets rid of infectious agents pretty effectively.
    My father designed "sewage lagoons" for places like slaughter houses
    where the macerated sewage was just dumped in a shallow open pool and
    left there for a month. It can't process anything like as much sewage
    per square metre as a municipal sewage works, but it does pretty much
    the same job, if more slowly, and doesn't stink (provided that the waste
    stays submerged).
    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2