• 19.59025 kHz peak with a FFT analyzer

    From Jean-Pierre Coulon@coulon@cacas.pam.oca.eu to sci.electronics.design on Thu Jun 18 08:50:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    We are using Stanford Research SR780 and SRS785 FFT spectrum analyzers.
    We obtain this peak in every measurement we do. By connecting an unshielded wire and moving it it is obvious that the FFT is the culprit.

    Are we the only ones in this case?

    Bye
    --
    Jean-Pierre Coulon

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  • From John R Walliker@jrwalliker@gmail.com to sci.electronics.design on Thu Jun 18 08:22:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 18/06/2026 07:50, Jean-Pierre Coulon wrote:
    We are using Stanford Research SR780 and SRS785 FFT spectrum analyzers.
    We obtain this peak in every measurement we do. By connecting an
    unshielded wire and moving it it is obvious that the FFT is the culprit.

    Are we the only ones in this case?

    Bye

    It could be the horizontal deflection frequency pf the CRT display.
    Some of the magnetic field from the deflection coils will escape
    through the front face of the CRT and can couple into your
    signal wiring. I have seen this effect in other makes of FFT
    analyzer.
    John

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  • From Jan Panteltje@alien@comet.invalid to sci.electronics.design on Thu Jun 18 10:49:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    Jean-Pierre Coulon <coulon@cacas.pam.oca.eu>wrote:
    We are using Stanford Research SR780 and SRS785 FFT spectrum analyzers.
    We obtain this peak in every measurement we do. By connecting an unshielded >wire and moving it it is obvious that the FFT is the culprit.

    Are we the only ones in this case?

    Bye

    I have some Low frequency RF from the solar panels 'converter' that my neighbor had installed.
    Moving the wire around to find the source is an option?

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  • From Jean-Pierre Coulon@coulon@cacas.pam.obs-nice.fr to sci.electronics.design on Thu Jun 18 12:54:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Thu, 18 Jun 2026, John R Walliker wrote:

    It could be the horizontal deflection frequency pf the CRT display.
    Some of the magnetic field from the deflection coils will escape
    through the front face of the CRT and can couple into your
    signal wiring. I have seen this effect in other makes of FFT
    analyzer.

    Thanks. Indeed when I put my "debugging wire" near the CRT the pickup increases.

    Arn't there more modern Stanford FFT's with a more modern, digital display?
    --
    Jean-Pierre Coulon
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  • From Jeff Liebermann@jeffl@cruzio.com to sci.electronics.design on Thu Jun 18 10:18:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 08:50:22 +0200, Jean-Pierre Coulon <coulon@cacas.pam.oca.eu> wrote:

    We are using Stanford Research SR780 and SRS785 FFT spectrum analyzers.
    We obtain this peak in every measurement we do. By connecting an unshielded >wire and moving it it is obvious that the FFT is the culprit.

    Are we the only ones in this case?

    Bye

    Looks like you're somewhere in France. You might check if you're
    hearing VLF radio station GQD in England on 19.6 KHz which is used to
    talk to submarines. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthorn_Radio_Station#VLF_transmitter>

    Note that GQD can be heard in Germany:
    "What is the source of the ~19.6 kHz tone in the train stations around Frankfurt?" <https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/myug65/what_is_the_source_of_the_196_khz_tone_in_the/>

    Hint: Don't use unshielded wires in place of shielded scope problems. Unshielded wires are also known as antennas.
    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From Jeff Liebermann@jeffl@cruzio.com to sci.electronics.design on Thu Jun 18 10:25:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 10:18:37 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    Hint: Don't use unshielded wires in place of shielded scope problems. >Unshielded wires are also known as antennas.

    Correction. That should be:
    "Hint: Don't use unshielded wires in place of shielded scope probes".
    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From legg@legg@nospam.magma.ca to sci.electronics.design on Thu Jun 18 13:28:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 08:50:22 +0200, Jean-Pierre Coulon <coulon@cacas.pam.oca.eu> wrote:

    We are using Stanford Research SR780 and SRS785 FFT spectrum analyzers.
    We obtain this peak in every measurement we do. By connecting an unshielded >wire and moving it it is obvious that the FFT is the culprit.

    Are we the only ones in this case?

    Bye

    Internal FFT is culprit only of it shows up to a
    shorted input.

    RL
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  • From Jean-Pierre Coulon@coulon@cacas.pam.obs-nice.fr to sci.electronics.design on Thu Jun 18 20:53:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Thu, 18 Jun 2026, Jeff Liebermann wrote:


    Hint: Don't use unshielded wires in place of shielded scope problems.
    Unshielded wires are also known as antennas.

    Sure, but I wanted an antenna just the time to try to locate the source.

    Of course besides this I always work with shieded BNC's.
    --
    Jean-Pierre Coulon
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  • From Joerg@news@analogconsultants.com to sci.electronics.design on Mon Jun 22 09:24:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 6/17/26 11:50 PM, Jean-Pierre Coulon wrote:
    We are using Stanford Research SR780 and SRS785 FFT spectrum analyzers.
    We obtain this peak in every measurement we do. By connecting an
    unshielded wire and moving it it is obvious that the FFT is the culprit.

    Are we the only ones in this case?


    Self pollution? I was never fond of Stanford Research analyzers. The
    kicker was a case where that expensive thing could not find a noise peak
    in the audio range but my lowly netbook with a 1st gen Intel Atom CPU
    and 18(!) bit sound chip could clearly find it. Oh, and that netbook had
    cost me a fraction of what the client had paid for that analyzer. Their engineers stood there in disbelief. They initially didn't believe it. So
    I said "Slow down that fan over there with your palm and a rag and watch
    the peak on my laptop screen". One of them did ... "Oh S..T!"
    --
    Regards, Joerg

    http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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  • From Jan Panteltje@alien@comet.invalid to sci.electronics.design on Tue Jun 23 06:07:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>wrote:
    On 6/17/26 11:50 PM, Jean-Pierre Coulon wrote:
    We are using Stanford Research SR780 and SRS785 FFT spectrum analyzers.
    We obtain this peak in every measurement we do. By connecting an
    unshielded wire and moving it it is obvious that the FFT is the culprit.

    Are we the only ones in this case?


    Self pollution? I was never fond of Stanford Research analyzers. The
    kicker was a case where that expensive thing could not find a noise peak
    in the audio range but my lowly netbook with a 1st gen Intel Atom CPU
    and 18(!) bit sound chip could clearly find it.

    Do you mean 8 bits?
    Most audio was 16 bits though?


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  • From Joerg@news@analogconsultants.com to sci.electronics.design on Tue Jun 23 09:49:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 6/22/26 11:07 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>wrote:
    On 6/17/26 11:50 PM, Jean-Pierre Coulon wrote:
    We are using Stanford Research SR780 and SRS785 FFT spectrum analyzers.
    We obtain this peak in every measurement we do. By connecting an
    unshielded wire and moving it it is obvious that the FFT is the culprit. >>>
    Are we the only ones in this case?


    Self pollution? I was never fond of Stanford Research analyzers. The
    kicker was a case where that expensive thing could not find a noise peak
    in the audio range but my lowly netbook with a 1st gen Intel Atom CPU
    and 18(!) bit sound chip could clearly find it.

    Do you mean 8 bits?
    Most audio was 16 bits though?


    Even back before 2010 most laptops sported 24-bit sound chips but mine
    had only 18 bits. That's why some of their engineers scoffed and thought
    I'd never find anything with that. Until I did.
    --
    Regards, Joerg

    http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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  • From john larkin@jl@glen--canyon.com to sci.electronics.design on Tue Jun 23 12:39:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Mon, 22 Jun 2026 09:24:06 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
    wrote:

    On 6/17/26 11:50 PM, Jean-Pierre Coulon wrote:
    We are using Stanford Research SR780 and SRS785 FFT spectrum analyzers.
    We obtain this peak in every measurement we do. By connecting an
    unshielded wire and moving it it is obvious that the FFT is the culprit.

    Are we the only ones in this case?


    Self pollution? I was never fond of Stanford Research analyzers. The
    kicker was a case where that expensive thing could not find a noise peak
    in the audio range but my lowly netbook with a 1st gen Intel Atom CPU
    and 18(!) bit sound chip could clearly find it. Oh, and that netbook had >cost me a fraction of what the client had paid for that analyzer. Their >engineers stood there in disbelief. They initially didn't believe it. So
    I said "Slow down that fan over there with your palm and a rag and watch
    the peak on my laptop screen". One of them did ... "Oh S..T!"

    SRS used 7-segment LEDs, spelling out letters!, way after everybody
    moved to LCDs.

    Their pushbutton menus were crazy too.

    https://www.thinksrs.com/products/sg380.html

    Their clock generator is OK, except for the klunky user interface.

    https://www.thinksrs.com/products/cg635.html

    The internal architecture is sorta weird.

    Somebody once wrote a novel without using the letter "e".

    Somebody should write a novel in 7-segment text.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics
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  • From Jan Panteltje@alien@comet.invalid to sci.electronics.design on Wed Jun 24 06:16:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
    On Mon, 22 Jun 2026 09:24:06 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >wrote:

    On 6/17/26 11:50 PM, Jean-Pierre Coulon wrote:
    We are using Stanford Research SR780 and SRS785 FFT spectrum analyzers.
    We obtain this peak in every measurement we do. By connecting an
    unshielded wire and moving it it is obvious that the FFT is the culprit. >>>
    Are we the only ones in this case?


    Self pollution? I was never fond of Stanford Research analyzers. The >>kicker was a case where that expensive thing could not find a noise peak >>in the audio range but my lowly netbook with a 1st gen Intel Atom CPU
    and 18(!) bit sound chip could clearly find it. Oh, and that netbook had >>cost me a fraction of what the client had paid for that analyzer. Their >>engineers stood there in disbelief. They initially didn't believe it. So
    I said "Slow down that fan over there with your palm and a rag and watch >>the peak on my laptop screen". One of them did ... "Oh S..T!"

    SRS used 7-segment LEDs, spelling out letters!, way after everybody
    moved to LCDs.

    Their pushbutton menus were crazy too.

    https://www.thinksrs.com/products/sg380.html

    Their clock generator is OK, except for the klunky user interface.

    https://www.thinksrs.com/products/cg635.html

    The internal architecture is sorta weird.

    Somebody once wrote a novel without using the letter "e".

    Somebody should write a novel in 7-segment text.

    My first frequency counter I build used nixie displays and a 100 kHz crystal, TTL logic.
    late sixties, took it to work and used it there to calibrate some video equipment.
    That caused a stir!
    Then took it to the local HAM radio club and connected it the the superreg oscillator in a receiver
    You had to subtract the IF frequency, but fun!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixie_tube

    I also wrote a 7 segment display reader (camera + software)
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/7s_parser/index.html

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  • From Jan Panteltje@alien@comet.invalid to sci.electronics.design on Wed Jun 24 08:05:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>wrote:
    On 6/22/26 11:07 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>wrote:
    On 6/17/26 11:50 PM, Jean-Pierre Coulon wrote:
    We are using Stanford Research SR780 and SRS785 FFT spectrum analyzers. >>>> We obtain this peak in every measurement we do. By connecting an
    unshielded wire and moving it it is obvious that the FFT is the culprit. >>>>
    Are we the only ones in this case?


    Self pollution? I was never fond of Stanford Research analyzers. The
    kicker was a case where that expensive thing could not find a noise peak >>> in the audio range but my lowly netbook with a 1st gen Intel Atom CPU
    and 18(!) bit sound chip could clearly find it.

    Do you mean 8 bits?
    Most audio was 16 bits though?


    Even back before 2010 most laptops sported 24-bit sound chips but mine
    had only 18 bits. That's why some of their engineers scoffed and thought
    I'd never find anything with that. Until I did.

    No idea how many bits my 2013 Samsung laptop audio supports.

    Yes, my old Z80 system soundcard I once designed, 8 bits IIRC:
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/z80/system14/diagrams/sound-2.jpg
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/z80/system14/diagrams/sound-1.jpg

    But for a FFT, single chip solution, 10 bits:
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/

    PWM audio, 8 bits:
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/audio_pic/
    Bass use only!, was just an experiment, no PWM power amps here, only real analog ones.
    The ebay PWM audio amp blew up when testing, clearly found the limit.
    And I do not like all the RF on the speaker cables everywhere.
    Even have a lowpass on my old Raspberry Pi analog audio output
    They dropped the 3.5 mm analog output on the PI5..
    Silly, so I will never buy one.
    Using an USB audio stick for input on the PI4.


    These days, bit more RF added, and still in use:
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/RF_FFT_plus_audio_FFT_plus_audio_AGC_plus_audio_compander_plus_audio_equalizer.gif
    just write my own stuff...


    It all depends.
    So much F35 noise here, audio from my Raspberry Pis, or TV..., or CDs and DVDs I recorded
    works perfectly.


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  • From bitrex@user@example.net to sci.electronics.design on Thu Jun 25 02:38:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 6/23/2026 3:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 22 Jun 2026 09:24:06 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
    wrote:

    On 6/17/26 11:50 PM, Jean-Pierre Coulon wrote:
    We are using Stanford Research SR780 and SRS785 FFT spectrum analyzers.
    We obtain this peak in every measurement we do. By connecting an
    unshielded wire and moving it it is obvious that the FFT is the culprit. >>>
    Are we the only ones in this case?


    Self pollution? I was never fond of Stanford Research analyzers. The
    kicker was a case where that expensive thing could not find a noise peak
    in the audio range but my lowly netbook with a 1st gen Intel Atom CPU
    and 18(!) bit sound chip could clearly find it. Oh, and that netbook had
    cost me a fraction of what the client had paid for that analyzer. Their
    engineers stood there in disbelief. They initially didn't believe it. So
    I said "Slow down that fan over there with your palm and a rag and watch
    the peak on my laptop screen". One of them did ... "Oh S..T!"

    SRS used 7-segment LEDs, spelling out letters!, way after everybody
    moved to LCDs.

    Their pushbutton menus were crazy too.

    https://www.thinksrs.com/products/sg380.html

    Their clock generator is OK, except for the klunky user interface.

    https://www.thinksrs.com/products/cg635.html

    The internal architecture is sorta weird.

    Somebody once wrote a novel without using the letter "e".

    Somebody should write a novel in 7-segment text.


    John Larkin
    Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
    Lunatic Fringe Electronics

    There's apparently no IEEE or ANSI standard 7 segment alphabet.

    Some seem to prioritize non-ambiguity which IMO makes for some illegible
    text:

    <https://fakoo.de/en/siekoo.html>

    Unless you're doing text entry also (hate your users) I don't think a 1
    to 1 correspondence is required
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