Why are engineering sample CPUs illegal to sell?
On 1/3/2022 12:21 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Why are engineering sample CPUs illegal to sell?
https://www.intel.ca/content/www/ca/en/support/articles/000056190/processors.html
"Can I get engineering sample processors from Intel?
Due to the pre-production nature of the engineering sample processors,
they are generally only loaned to OEMs, ODMs, and ISVs for pre-production
test and evaluation work under specific contractual terms and conditions
to assure the protection of assets and confidential information.
Engineering sample processors are not made available
to the general public by Intel."
In effect, you're in possession of stolen goods.
The whole idea is, no matter what happens, those goods are
not to be circulating in the hands of the public. You could give
them back to the local rep, and he could have them shredded.
(Some factories shred their e-waste to prevent recovery by
waste removal people.)
Those samples could have defects, maybe they don't have
a 100,000 hour operating life (early mortality). They might not
even compute properly at full speed. Like an ES 3GHz processor,
there might be an errata sheet in the box, stating you're supposed
to run them at 2GHz.
Intel could also mark them with sufficient information, to
trace them back to who received them. To determine who is leaking
them and violating a contract term.
With other manufacturers, those parts are the equivalent of the
"qual barrel". And the stuff in the qual barrel, is definitely
not production quality.
Not allowing them to be sold, is to protect *you* from receiving
inferior goods.
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:46:24 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On 1/3/2022 12:21 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Why are engineering sample CPUs illegal to sell?
https://www.intel.ca/content/www/ca/en/support/articles/000056190/processors.html
"Can I get engineering sample processors from Intel?
Due to the pre-production nature of the engineering sample processors, >> they are generally only loaned to OEMs, ODMs, and ISVs for pre-production
test and evaluation work under specific contractual terms and conditions
to assure the protection of assets and confidential information.
Engineering sample processors are not made available
to the general public by Intel."
In effect, you're in possession of stolen goods.
They're not stolen, since Intel don't take them back from who they "lent" them to.
The whole idea is, no matter what happens, those goods are
not to be circulating in the hands of the public. You could give
them back to the local rep, and he could have them shredded.
(Some factories shred their e-waste to prevent recovery by
waste removal people.)
Those samples could have defects, maybe they don't have
a 100,000 hour operating life (early mortality). They might not
even compute properly at full speed. Like an ES 3GHz processor,
there might be an errata sheet in the box, stating you're supposed
to run them at 2GHz.
Intel could also mark them with sufficient information, to
trace them back to who received them. To determine who is leaking
them and violating a contract term.
With other manufacturers, those parts are the equivalent of the
"qual barrel". And the stuff in the qual barrel, is definitely
not production quality.
Not allowing them to be sold, is to protect *you* from receiving
inferior goods.
They clearly say sample on them. If I bought one knowing it's a sample, why would I have a problem?
NOTE: OP shotgun multi-posted to more than 3 newsgroups. My reply was submitted to only the relevant newsgroups. Following newsgroups were
omitted in my reply:
uk.legal
sci.electronics.basics
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^___ You don't own nor have permission to
use this registered & active domain.
Why are engineering sample CPUs illegal to sell?
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000056190/processors.html
They are pre-production processors Intel loans to original equipment
manufacturers (OEMs), original device manufacturers (ODMs), and
independent software vendors (ISVs) to be used in the product design
cycle before product launch.
and
- Produced by Intel are the sole property of Intel.
- Produced by Intel are Intel Confidential.
- Are provided by Intel under nondisclosure and/or special loan
agreement terms with restrictions on the recipient's handling and
use.
- Are not for sale or resale.
- May not have passed commercial regulatory requirements.
Are not covered under Intel warranty and are generally not supported
by Intel
You can rent a car. You can test drive a demo. It's NOT your car.
So, just how did YOU acquire an engineering sample? You'd already know
the answer if you had filled out all the paperwork. Or, WHO is selling
what they claim is an engineering sample?
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^___ You don't own nor have permission to
use this registered & active domain.
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:46:24 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On 1/3/2022 12:21 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Why are engineering sample CPUs illegal to sell?
https://www.intel.ca/content/www/ca/en/support/articles/000056190/processors.html
"Can I get engineering sample processors from Intel?
Due to the pre-production nature of the engineering sample processors, >>> they are generally only loaned to OEMs, ODMs, and ISVs for pre-production
test and evaluation work under specific contractual terms and conditions
to assure the protection of assets and confidential information.
Engineering sample processors are not made available
to the general public by Intel."
In effect, you're in possession of stolen goods.
They're not stolen, since Intel don't take them back from who they "lent" them to.
The whole idea is, no matter what happens, those goods are
not to be circulating in the hands of the public. You could give
them back to the local rep, and he could have them shredded.
(Some factories shred their e-waste to prevent recovery by
waste removal people.)
Those samples could have defects, maybe they don't have
a 100,000 hour operating life (early mortality). They might not
even compute properly at full speed. Like an ES 3GHz processor,
there might be an errata sheet in the box, stating you're supposed
to run them at 2GHz.
Intel could also mark them with sufficient information, to
trace them back to who received them. To determine who is leaking
them and violating a contract term.
With other manufacturers, those parts are the equivalent of the
"qual barrel". And the stuff in the qual barrel, is definitely
not production quality.
Not allowing them to be sold, is to protect *you* from receiving
inferior goods.
They clearly say sample on them. If I bought one knowing it's a sample, why would I have a problem?
Someone could rent a car, and then sell it to you. The sale was illegal
by the seller, but YOU are in possesion of stolen property.
WHO sold you the engineering sample?
In effect, you're in possession of stolen goods.
Someone could rent a car
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:55:47 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a ^^^^^^^^^^___ You don't own nor have permission to
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a use this registered & active domain.
Actually it isn't.-a Were you thinking of spam.com?-a Please pay attention at the back.
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:55:47 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
NOTE: OP shotgun multi-posted to more than 3 newsgroups.-a My reply was
submitted to only the relevant newsgroups.-a Following newsgroups were
omitted in my reply:
uk.legal
Readded, why is this not to do with legalities?
sci.electronics.basics
A CPU is electronic you utter nitwit.
On 03/01/2022 20:41, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:55:47 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^___ You don't own nor have permission to >>> use this registered & active domain.
Actually it isn't. Were you thinking of spam.com? Please pay attention
at the back.
The only idiot here is the one who thinks that nospam.com isn't
registered. It is and you don't own the domain.
Do you know how to check?
On 03/01/2022 20:40, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:55:47 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
NOTE: OP shotgun multi-posted to more than 3 newsgroups. My reply was
submitted to only the relevant newsgroups. Following newsgroups were
omitted in my reply:
uk.legal
Readded, why is this not to do with legalities?
sci.electronics.basics
A CPU is electronic you utter nitwit.
The only nitwit here is one who thinks that no one who posts in the
suggested group has a grasp of the legal aspects of samples.
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 21:15:15 -0000, Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.invalid> wrote:
On 03/01/2022 20:41, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:55:47 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a ^^^^^^^^^^___ You don't own nor have
permission to
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a use this registered & active
domain.
Actually it isn't.-a Were you thinking of spam.com?-a Please pay attention >>> at the back.
The only idiot here is the one who thinks that nospam.com isn't
registered. It is and you don't own the domain.
Do you know how to check?
Try going to it.-a It's for sale, just like iurvesiugbstgb.com.-a You can buy either if you want.
And I'm not "using" the domain by stating it here.-a Anyone who spams it however, is.
Let me make this simple for your simple mind:
I spot a car that's left unlocked.-a I point it out to you.-a You steal
the car.-a Who's the theif?
On 03/01/2022 21:23, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 21:15:15 -0000, Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.invalid> wrote:
On 03/01/2022 20:41, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:55:47 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^___ You don't own nor have
permission to
use this registered & active
domain.
Actually it isn't. Were you thinking of spam.com? Please pay attention >>>> at the back.
The only idiot here is the one who thinks that nospam.com isn't
registered. It is and you don't own the domain.
Do you know how to check?
Try going to it. It's for sale, just like iurvesiugbstgb.com. You can
buy either if you want.
And I'm not "using" the domain by stating it here. Anyone who spams it
however, is.
Let me make this simple for your simple mind:
I spot a car that's left unlocked. I point it out to you. You steal
the car. Who's the theif?
You are complicit where you are aiding and abetting the theft through
Joint Enterprise.
Why are engineering sample CPUs illegal to sell?
Due to the pre-production nature of the engineering sample processors,
they are generally only loaned to OEMs, ODMs, and ISVs for pre-production test and evaluation work under specific contractual terms and conditions
to assure the protection of assets and confidential information.
Engineering sample processors are not made available
to the general public by Intel."
In effect, you're in possession of stolen goods.
The whole idea is, no matter what happens, those goods are
not to be circulating in the hands of the public. You could give
them back to the local rep, and he could have them shredded.
(Some factories shred their e-waste to prevent recovery by
waste removal people.)
Those samples could have defects, maybe they don't have
a 100,000 hour operating life (early mortality). They might not
even compute properly at full speed. Like an ES 3GHz processor,
there might be an errata sheet in the box, stating you're supposed
to run them at 2GHz.
Intel could also mark them with sufficient information, to
trace them back to who received them. To determine who is leaking
them and violating a contract term.
With other manufacturers, those parts are the equivalent of the
"qual barrel". And the stuff in the qual barrel, is definitely
not production quality.
Not allowing them to be sold, is to protect *you* from receiving
inferior goods.
Paul wrote:
=========
Why are engineering sample CPUs illegal to sell?
Due to the pre-production nature of the engineering sample processors,
they are generally only loaned to OEMs, ODMs, and ISVs for pre-production
test and evaluation work under specific contractual terms and conditions
to assure the protection of assets and confidential information.
Engineering sample processors are not made available
to the general public by Intel."
In effect, you're in possession of stolen goods.
The whole idea is, no matter what happens, those goods are
not to be circulating in the hands of the public. You could give
them back to the local rep, and he could have them shredded.
(Some factories shred their e-waste to prevent recovery by
waste removal people.)
Those samples could have defects, maybe they don't have
a 100,000 hour operating life (early mortality). They might not
even compute properly at full speed. Like an ES 3GHz processor,
there might be an errata sheet in the box, stating you're supposed
to run them at 2GHz.
Intel could also mark them with sufficient information, to
trace them back to who received them. To determine who is leaking
them and violating a contract term.
With other manufacturers, those parts are the equivalent of the
"qual barrel". And the stuff in the qual barrel, is definitely
not production quality.
Not allowing them to be sold, is to protect *you* from receiving
inferior goods.
** True story:
A manufacturer here in Sydney ( Jands Electronics) made a "pre-production" batch of a new model power amplifier for professional use.
They wisely chose to road test it in the expected environment - on the road with live bands.
They proved to be problematic in several respects and the design was heavily revised for the production version.
The sample amps were fully labelled with the maker's logo and the same model number as the later versions.
Think there were about 20 of them, put into storage for eventual disposal.
Then an enterprising staff member obtained them and decided he could sell them all to a local second hand dealer - letting him believe they were just like the regular models on sale at the time - but for a very low price so giving him a large mark up.
** True story:
A manufacturer here in Sydney ( Jands Electronics) made a "pre-production" batch of a new model power amplifier for professional use.
They wisely chose to road test it in the expected environment - on the road with live bands.
They proved to be problematic in several respects and the design was heavily revised for the production version.
The sample amps were fully labelled with the maker's logo and the same model number as the later versions.
Well that was pretty stupid of them.
Think there were about 20 of them, put into storage for eventual disposal.
Then an enterprising staff member obtained them and decided he could sell them all to a local second hand dealer- letting him believe they were just like the regular models on sale at the time - but for a very low price so giving him a large mark up.
So he lied.
But my question was about selling them as engineering samples.
Commander Kinsey Raving Lunatic wrote:
====================
** True story:
A manufacturer here in Sydney ( Jands Electronics) made a "pre-production" batch of a new model power amplifier for professional use.
They wisely chose to road test it in the expected environment - on the road with live bands.
They proved to be problematic in several respects and the design was heavily revised for the production version.
The sample amps were fully labelled with the maker's logo and the same model number as the later versions.
Well that was pretty stupid of them.
** Not at all - if problems were small or fixable the amps would have been used in the same company's hire business.
Needed to look right for that job.
Think there were about 20 of them, put into storage for eventual disposal. >> >- letting him believe they were just like the regular models on sale at the time - but for a very low price so giving him a large mark up.
Then an enterprising staff member obtained them and decided he could sell them all to a local second hand dealer
So he lied.
** No. He deceived a gullible fool and sold items that wound up hurting the company he worked for.
But my question was about selling them as engineering samples.
** The situations are parallel.
In both cases the items were not meant for sale for good reasons.
And assholes like YOU wanted to circumvent that decision for their own benefit.
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:58:13 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:46:24 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On 1/3/2022 12:21 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Why are engineering sample CPUs illegal to sell?
https://www.intel.ca/content/www/ca/en/support/articles/000056190/processors.html
"Can I get engineering sample processors from Intel?
Due to the pre-production nature of the engineering sample processors,
they are generally only loaned to OEMs, ODMs, and ISVs for pre-production
test and evaluation work under specific contractual terms and conditions
to assure the protection of assets and confidential information.
Engineering sample processors are not made available
to the general public by Intel."
In effect, you're in possession of stolen goods.
They're not stolen, since Intel don't take them back from who they "lent" them to.
The whole idea is, no matter what happens, those goods are
not to be circulating in the hands of the public. You could give
them back to the local rep, and he could have them shredded.
(Some factories shred their e-waste to prevent recovery by
waste removal people.)
Those samples could have defects, maybe they don't have
a 100,000 hour operating life (early mortality). They might not
even compute properly at full speed. Like an ES 3GHz processor,
there might be an errata sheet in the box, stating you're supposed
to run them at 2GHz.
Intel could also mark them with sufficient information, to
trace them back to who received them. To determine who is leaking
them and violating a contract term.
With other manufacturers, those parts are the equivalent of the
"qual barrel". And the stuff in the qual barrel, is definitely
not production quality.
Not allowing them to be sold, is to protect *you* from receiving
inferior goods.
They clearly say sample on them. If I bought one knowing it's a sample, why would I have a problem?
Someone could rent a car, and then sell it to you. The sale was illegal
by the seller, but YOU are in possesion of stolen property.
WHO sold you the engineering sample?
You've stated those two things in another post, stop repeating yourself.
NOTE: Continued excessive cross-posting thwarted. Number of
cross-posted newsgroups reduced from 4 to 2.
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:55:47 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
NOTE: OP shotgun multi-posted to more than 3 newsgroups. My reply was
submitted to only the relevant newsgroups. Following newsgroups were
omitted in my reply:
uk.legal
Readded, why is this not to do with legalities?
sci.electronics.basics
A CPU is electronic you utter nitwit.
Cross-posting to more than 3 newsgroups violates netiquette.
Doesn't how many you contrive are on-topic. Some netizens consider more than 2
to be excessive.
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^___ You don't own nor have permission to >>> use this registered & active domain.
They should have thought of that when they sold absolute shite.
How is that relevant to the domain you used in your address field?
I'll put whatever I want in there.
Yep, the excuse of a troll.
If anyone chooses to email it, they're the ones breaking the law.
Oh, that law. Uh huh.
Hmm, a nitwit that has no knowlege of the .invalid TLD.
Else, YOU are
the spammer energizing spam and other unsolicited messages to a domain
that isn't yours. Yep, trolls aren't known for being polite.
Why are engineering sample CPUs illegal to sell?
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000056190/processors.html
They are pre-production processors Intel loans to original equipment
manufacturers (OEMs), original device manufacturers (ODMs), and
independent software vendors (ISVs) to be used in the product design
cycle before product launch.
and
- Produced by Intel are the sole property of Intel.
- Produced by Intel are Intel Confidential.
- Are provided by Intel under nondisclosure and/or special loan
agreement terms with restrictions on the recipient's handling and
use.
- Are not for sale or resale.
- May not have passed commercial regulatory requirements.
Are not covered under Intel warranty and are generally not supported >>> by Intel
You can rent a car. You can test drive a demo. It's NOT your car.
Intel don't ask for it back like the car rental place does. It's
given not loaned.
Wrong. Loans don't always require [re]payment. That's just what you
are used to. Because of her financial situation, I know someone that
got a loan with zero interest, zero payments, and no lien on change of
title of the home, so no payback. Granting use does not mandate payment
nor return.
Oh, did YOU happen to get all the paperwork allowing you to possess the engineering sample to definitely know the samples were not to be
returned?
My guess, and yours, is return was not required, especially
since the samples could be damaged on use. You think someone who loans
you a stick of gum really wants it back?
So, just how did YOU acquire an engineering sample? You'd already
know the answer if you had filled out all the paperwork. Or, WHO is
selling what they claim is an engineering sample?
Why would I grass off someone who supplied me with a nice cheap CPU?
So, why are you whining about others stating you are in possession of
stolen goods,
because obviously you don't care about aiding thieves.
To you, if you don't get caught, it ain't illegal.
** Not at all - if problems were small or fixable the amps would have been used in the same company's hire business.No need to have the same model number.
Needed to look right for that job.
So he lied.
** No. He deceived a gullible fool and sold items that wound up hurting the company he worked for.
That is a lie,
But my question was about selling them as engineering samples.
** The situations are parallel.
In both cases the items were not meant for sale for good reasons.
And assholes like YOU wanted to circumvent that decision for their own benefit.
No,
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 22:44:24 -0000, Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
Commander Kinsey Raving Lunatic wrote:
====================
** True story:
A manufacturer here in Sydney ( Jands Electronics) made a
"pre-production" batch of a new model power amplifier for professional >>> > use.
They wisely chose to road test it in the expected environment - on the >>> > road with live bands.
They proved to be problematic in several respects and the design was
heavily revised for the production version.
The sample amps were fully labelled with the maker's logo and the same >>> > model number as the later versions.
Well that was pretty stupid of them.
** Not at all - if problems were small or fixable the amps would have
been used in the same company's hire business.
Needed to look right for that job.
No need to have the same model number.
Think there were about 20 of them, put into storage for eventual- letting him believe they were just like the regular models on sale at >>> the time - but for a very low price so giving him a large mark up.
disposal.
Then an enterprising staff member obtained them and decided he could
sell them all to a local second hand dealer
So he lied.
** No. He deceived a gullible fool and sold items that wound up hurting
the company he worked for.
That is a lie, he did not say they were tests.
But my question was about selling them as engineering samples.
** The situations are parallel.
In both cases the items were not meant for sale for good reasons.
And assholes like YOU wanted to circumvent that decision for their own
benefit.
No, if I buy an engineering sample advertised as such, I don't expect it
to work perfectly.
Newsgroups reinstated.
I've only seen this one post, but I know pre production models of things
can slip out for whatever reason.
I had a computer once where the pcb had
been manufactured with a fault, tend you can clearly see back then where the tracks had been manually cut and wires bridged the contacts to the right places, leaving the tracks as orphans.
Likewise a number of Sinclair ZX Spectrums in the early days were made with known faulty ULA chips and a logic chip glued to the surface with its legs splayed and wired to make the circuit work.
The first batch of Phillips CD100s the very first CD player on the market had quite a lot of wires cut tracks and components wired in odd ways inside it. I have to say that none of these what we might call bodges ever caused any trouble during the lives of the products.
I've only seen this one post,
Likewise a number of Sinclair ZX Spectrums in the early days were made with known faulty ULA chips and a logic chip glued to the surface with its legs splayed and wired to make the circuit work.
Osborne came out with a 100 column conversion for the Osborne 1. CMOS was a new technology and while it normally saved power, dissipation increased with frequency. The circuit would work until the chip got hot. I replace it with the equivalent LS part and all was good.
Back in those days I could see the components without a microscope so component level troubleshooting was feasible.
rbowman wrote :
Osborne came out with a 100 column conversion for the Osborne 1. CMOS
was a new technology and while it normally saved power, dissipation
increased with frequency. The circuit would work until the chip got
hot. I replace it with the equivalent LS part and all was good.
The BBC computer had a similar problem - the early versions had to have
an heatsink on a certain chip to keep it cool, I half remember. I also
had a timing issue with an S100 computer I built and partially designed.
I finally spotted the issue, when I could afford to buy a 'scope, but by
then it was too late - my homebuilt was due for replacement with
something better.
I think now that designer have simply become more skilled and obviously
the range of components have improved massively.
Commander Kinsey Raving Lunatic wrote:
====================
No need to have the same model number.
** Not at all - if problems were small or fixable the amps would have been used in the same company's hire business.
Needed to look right for that job.
** To assist sales of the new model - it was needed.
So he lied.
** No. He deceived a gullible fool and sold items that wound up hurting the company he worked for.
That is a lie,
** He was simply being " economical with the facts" some of which he did not know.
But my question was about selling them as engineering samples.
** The situations are parallel.
In both cases the items were not meant for sale for good reasons.
And assholes like YOU wanted to circumvent that decision for their own benefit.
No,
** Yes - you fucking LIAR
Brian Gaff Shithead Trollpuked:
=============================
I've only seen this one post, but I know pre production models of things
can slip out for whatever reason.
** No you don't.
I had a computer once where the pcb had
been manufactured with a fault, tend you can clearly see back then where the >> tracks had been manually cut and wires bridged the contacts to the right
places, leaving the tracks as orphans.
** So fucking what ? That is not an example..
Likewise a number of Sinclair ZX Spectrums in the early days were made with >> known faulty ULA chips and a logic chip glued to the surface with its legs >> splayed and wired to make the circuit work.
** Still very much meant to be sold - so not a failed prototype.
The first batch of Phillips CD100s the very first CD player on the market
had quite a lot of wires cut tracks and components wired in odd ways inside >> it. I have to say that none of these what we might call bodges ever caused >> any trouble during the lives of the products.
** Just destroyed your own bullshit case.
I've only seen this one post, but I know pre production models of things--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
can slip out for whatever reason. I had a computer once where the pcb had been manufactured with a fault, tend you can clearly see back then where the tracks had been manually cut and wires bridged the contacts to the right places, leaving the tracks as orphans.
Likewise a number of Sinclair ZX Spectrums in the early days were made with known faulty ULA chips and a logic chip glued to the surface with its legs splayed and wired to make the circuit work.
The first batch of Phillips CD100s the very first CD player on the market had quite a lot of wires cut tracks and components wired in odd ways inside it. I have to say that none of these what we might call bodges ever caused any trouble during the lives of the products. The CD100 is in fact still working, although its tendency to jump if a gnat walks across the floor shows it does not have the memory buffers in modern players.
Brian
On 01/04/2022 01:13 AM, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Likewise a number of Sinclair ZX Spectrums in the early days were made with >> known faulty ULA chips and a logic chip glued to the surface with its legs >> splayed and wired to make the circuit work.
When the ZX80 came out it was available as an unassembled kit for $99. I don't remember the exact problem but I had to tweak it ti get it to run.
Osborne came out with a 100 column conversion for the Osborne 1. CMOS
was a new technology and while it normally saved power, dissipation
increased with frequency. The circuit would work until the chip got hot.
I replace it with the equivalent LS part and all was good.
Back in those days I could see the components without a microscope so component level troubleshooting was feasible.
On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 11:48:23 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 4 Jan 2022 16:01:22 -0000 (UTC), Sysadmin <j...@home.net>
wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2022 15:42:08 +0000, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:Remember all those "sx" processors? DX Processores where the
rbowman wrote :
Osborne came out with a 100 column conversion for the Osborne 1. CMOS
was a new technology and while it normally saved power, dissipation
increased with frequency. The circuit would work until the chip got
hot. I replace it with the equivalent LS part and all was good.
The BBC computer had a similar problem - the early versions had to have >> >> an heatsink on a certain chip to keep it cool, I half remember. I also
had a timing issue with an S100 computer I built and partially designed. >> >> I finally spotted the issue, when I could afford to buy a 'scope, but by >> >> then it was too late - my homebuilt was due for replacement with
something better.
I think now that designer have simply become more skilled and obviously >> >> the range of components have improved massively.
They use logic analysers in simulations now before the design gets
anywhere near a product.
floating point processors built on the fie were defective, and rather
than discard everything they just blew a few "fuses" on the chip and
sold them as SX on boards where an external FPU could be mounted if
you needed the FPU function
That's another myth. At introduction, the SX's used the same silicone
as the DX product, with the floating point unit untested and disabled.
If Intel were to have relied on die where the floating point unit was defective, there wouldn't have been enough to meet the enormous demand
for SX product. This was high yield production at Intel not Joe's
crap line. And within a year Intel had a new SX version with the floating point
unit removed, which made the die smaller, less costly to produce
and more profitable. That was the plan all along.
On 04/01/2022 16:08, charles wrote:
In article <sr1psh$2l2$1@dont-email.me>, Harry Bloomfield Esq
<a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote:
rbowman wrote :
Osborne came out with a 100 column conversion for the Osborne 1. CMOS
was a new technology and while it normally saved power, dissipation
increased with frequency. The circuit would work until the chip got
hot. I replace it with the equivalent LS part and all was good.
The BBC computer had a similar problem - the early versions had to have
an heatsink on a certain chip to keep it cool, I half remember.
I had one of the very early ones and don't remember any such problem.
They were supplied initially with a non-switching P/S that ran rather
hot, but a better switch-mode power supply (astec?) was supplied free-of-charge a few months later.
On 1/4/2022 4:19 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
Kinsey,
They clearly say sample on them. If I bought one knowing it's a sample, >>> why would I have a problem?
Still playing stupid I see ...
Because you should be aware by now (if you wheren't already) that those
engineering sample CPU are not theirs to sell. When you than decide to buy >> them anyway you would be *knowingly* be part of a theft.
And that 'knowingly' part is something the Law does not take lightly. If
they would ever find out you would be forced to return the goods to the
actual owner - without getting your money back - and likely be "invited" to >> spend some quality time in one of the Laws "relaxation centers".
The positive side of that that the boarding, meals and doctor visits are
free. :-)
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
This reminds me of something similar. There are many "entities" selling Windows-Pro (OEM) keys for under $20, while a "proper" one will set you
back $160. It surprises me that this is allowed to go on and is being
treated "so lightly". I will almost surely be the sucker who pays $160,
but the difference is enough to make one stop and think about it. I
wonder why they don't ask for $260 or $360? I only paid $99 for my OEM
copy of Windows-7 (pro), but at least I got Windows-10 as a free update
to it. I would like to upgrade, but will wait until it is easier to buy
a sensible GPU at a sensible price.
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 22:44:24 -0000, Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
Commander Kinsey Raving Lunatic wrote:
====================
** True story:
A manufacturer here in Sydney ( Jands Electronics) made a
"pre-production" batch of a new model power amplifier for
professional use. They wisely chose to road test it in the
expected environment - on the road with live bands. They proved to be >>>> problematic in several respects and the design
was heavily revised for the production version. The sample amps were
fully labelled with the maker's logo and the
same model number as the later versions.
Well that was pretty stupid of them.
** Not at all - if problems were small or fixable the amps would
have been used in the same company's hire business. Needed to
look right for that job.
No need to have the same model number.
Think there were about 20 of them, put into storage for eventual- letting him believe they were just like the regular models on
disposal. Then an enterprising staff member obtained them and decided >>>> he
could sell them all to a local second hand dealer
sale at the time - but for a very low price so giving him a large
mark up. So he lied.
** No. He deceived a gullible fool and sold items that wound up
hurting the company he worked for.
That is a lie, he did not say they were tests.
But my question was about selling them as engineering samples.
** The situations are parallel.
In both cases the items were not meant for sale for good reasons.
And assholes like YOU wanted to circumvent that decision for their
own benefit.
No, if I buy an engineering sample advertised as such, I don't expect
it to work perfectly.
Newsgroups reinstated.
But my question was about selling them as engineering samples.
** The situations are parallel.
In both cases the items were not meant for sale for good reasons.
And assholes like YOU wanted to circumvent that decision for their own benefit.
No,
** Yes - you fucking LIAR
Again, "my question was about selling them as engineering samples",
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 23:49:48 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
NOTE: Continued excessive cross-posting thwarted. Number of
cross-posted newsgroups reduced from 4 to 2.
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:55:47 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
NOTE: OP shotgun multi-posted to more than 3 newsgroups. My reply was >>>> submitted to only the relevant newsgroups. Following newsgroups were
omitted in my reply:
uk.legal
Readded, why is this not to do with legalities?
sci.electronics.basics
A CPU is electronic you utter nitwit.
Cross-posting to more than 3 newsgroups violates netiquette.
If it shouldn't be done, it's odd how every newsreader allows it.
I post to groups where I think people will give an answer or be interested.
Doesn't how many you contrive are on-topic. Some netizens consider more than 2
to be excessive.
Using the word netizen indicates you're a freak.
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^___ You don't own nor have permission to
use this registered & active domain.
They should have thought of that when they sold absolute shite.
How is that relevant to the domain you used in your address field?
I thought you were talking about spam.com, Hormel Food Corporation, that sells that disgusting waste product as food. I didn't realise you'd be stupid enough to think nospam.com was a company.
I'll put whatever I want in there.
Yep, the excuse of a troll.
I'm not going to put my own address in there and receive spam am I?
If anyone chooses to email it, they're the ones breaking the law.
Oh, that law. Uh huh.
Spam is illegal is it not? If not why not?
Hmm, a nitwit that has no knowlege of the .invalid TLD.
I do, but see no point in using it.
Else, YOU are
the spammer energizing spam and other unsolicited messages to a domain
that isn't yours. Yep, trolls aren't known for being polite.
It isn't anyone's, and I'm not the one sending the spam.
Why are engineering sample CPUs illegal to sell?
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000056190/processors.html
They are pre-production processors Intel loans to original equipment
manufacturers (OEMs), original device manufacturers (ODMs), and
independent software vendors (ISVs) to be used in the product design
cycle before product launch.
and
- Produced by Intel are the sole property of Intel.
- Produced by Intel are Intel Confidential.
- Are provided by Intel under nondisclosure and/or special loan
agreement terms with restrictions on the recipient's handling and
use.
- Are not for sale or resale.
- May not have passed commercial regulatory requirements.
Are not covered under Intel warranty and are generally not supported
by Intel
You can rent a car. You can test drive a demo. It's NOT your car.
Intel don't ask for it back like the car rental place does. It's
given not loaned.
Oh, did YOU happen to get all the paperwork allowing you to possess the
engineering sample to definitely know the samples were not to be
returned?
Doesn't matter to me. I've paid the money and I have the product, any
theft that took place previously is not of my concern.
Brian Gaff Shithead Troll puked:
=============================
I've only seen this one post, but I know pre production models of things >> can slip out for whatever reason.
** No you don't.
I had a computer once where the pcb had
been manufactured with a fault, tend you can clearly see back then where the
tracks had been manually cut and wires bridged the contacts to the right >> places, leaving the tracks as orphans.
** So fucking what ? That is not an example..
Likewise a number of Sinclair ZX Spectrums in the early days were made with
known faulty ULA chips and a logic chip glued to the surface with its legs
splayed and wired to make the circuit work.
** Still very much meant to be sold - so not a failed prototype.
The first batch of Phillips CD100s the very first CD player on the market >> had quite a lot of wires cut tracks and components wired in odd ways inside
it. I have to say that none of these what we might call bodges ever caused
any trouble during the lives of the products.
** Just destroyed your own bullshit case.
Do grow up.
And if you're going to insult someone, you need to post it to the group he reads it in.
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 21:27:56 -0000, Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.invalid> wrote:
On 03/01/2022 21:23, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Let me make this simple for your simple mind:
I spot a car that's left unlocked. I point it out to you. You steal
the car. Who's the theif?
You are complicit where you are aiding and abetting the theft through
Joint Enterprise.
Stop being such a pedantic fuckwit. There is no judge on this earth who would do me for saying to you, "hey that car's not locked".
Let me make this simple for your simple mind:
I spot a car that's left unlocked. I point it out to you. You steal
the car. Who's the theif?
You are complicit where you are aiding and abetting the theft through
Joint Enterprise.
Stop being such a pedantic fuckwit. There is no judge on this earth who would do me for saying to you, "hey that car's not locked".
They absolutely would if, based on the knowledge you gave, Fred stole it
and you did nothing to stop him.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/inchoate-offences
In fact, for serious crimes you could be prosecuted for simply suggesting a criminal act even if that act never occurred.
They absolutely would if, based on the knowledge you gave, Fred stole it
and you did nothing to stop him. https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/inchoate-offences
In fact, for serious crimes you could be prosecuted for simply suggesting a criminal act even if that act never occurred.
Given your other post the police would laugh at how crap a criminal you
are. "Nah, mate you can't arrest me. See this gold bar? Bob stole it and
gave it to me. I also told bob the security van door was unlocked. So it's mine and you can't do anything about it." "You're nicked, sunshine!" :D
Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 22:44:24 -0000, Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
Commander Kinsey Raving Lunatic wrote:
====================
** True story:
A manufacturer here in Sydney ( Jands Electronics) made a
"pre-production" batch of a new model power amplifier for
professional use. They wisely chose to road test it in the
expected environment - on the road with live bands. They proved to be >>>>> problematic in several respects and the design
was heavily revised for the production version. The sample amps were >>>>> fully labelled with the maker's logo and the
same model number as the later versions.
Well that was pretty stupid of them.
** Not at all - if problems were small or fixable the amps would
have been used in the same company's hire business. Needed to
look right for that job.
No need to have the same model number.
Think there were about 20 of them, put into storage for eventual- letting him believe they were just like the regular models on
disposal. Then an enterprising staff member obtained them and decided >>>>> he
could sell them all to a local second hand dealer
sale at the time - but for a very low price so giving him a large
mark up. So he lied.
** No. He deceived a gullible fool and sold items that wound up
hurting the company he worked for.
That is a lie, he did not say they were tests.
But my question was about selling them as engineering samples.
** The situations are parallel.
In both cases the items were not meant for sale for good reasons.
And assholes like YOU wanted to circumvent that decision for their
own benefit.
No, if I buy an engineering sample advertised as such, I don't expect
it to work perfectly.
Newsgroups reinstated.
Hucker is a well known troll. Best not to feed the twat.
Commander Kinsey Raving Lunatic wrote:
====================
But my question was about selling them as engineering samples.
** The situations are parallel.
In both cases the items were not meant for sale for good reasons.
And assholes like YOU wanted to circumvent that decision for their own benefit.
No,
** Yes - you fucking LIAR
Again, "my question was about selling them as engineering samples",
** With a caveat they were not for sale as they may contain defects.
Exactly like the 20 amps I cited.
FOAD you pig headed troll.
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 23:49:48 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
NOTE: Continued excessive cross-posting thwarted. Number of
cross-posted newsgroups reduced from 4 to 2.
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:55:47 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
Why are engineering sample CPUs illegal to sell?
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000056190/processors.html
They are pre-production processors Intel loans to original equipment >>>>> manufacturers (OEMs), original device manufacturers (ODMs), and
independent software vendors (ISVs) to be used in the product design >>>>> cycle before product launch.
and
- Produced by Intel are the sole property of Intel.
- Produced by Intel are Intel Confidential.
- Are provided by Intel under nondisclosure and/or special loan
agreement terms with restrictions on the recipient's handling and
use.
- Are not for sale or resale.
- May not have passed commercial regulatory requirements.
Are not covered under Intel warranty and are generally not supported >>>>> by Intel
You can rent a car. You can test drive a demo. It's NOT your car.
Intel don't ask for it back like the car rental place does. It's
given not loaned.
Try reading the text above more slowly this time. It is explicitly loaned.
Oh, did YOU happen to get all the paperwork allowing you to possess the
engineering sample to definitely know the samples were not to be
returned?
Doesn't matter to me. I've paid the money and I have the product, any
theft that took place previously is not of my concern.
Your poor knowledge of basic UK law is concerning. https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/handling-stolen-goods-2/
Knowingly handling stolen goods is illegal.
Not knowing they're stolen doesn't mean you get to keep them. They will rightfully be confiscated from you.
Raving Lunatic Arsehole Commander Kinsey wrote: =========================================
** You need to stop fucking your elderly mom.
Brian Gaff Shithead Troll puked:
=============================
I've only seen this one post, but I know pre production models of things >> >> can slip out for whatever reason.
** No you don't.
I had a computer once where the pcb had
been manufactured with a fault, tend you can clearly see back then where the
tracks had been manually cut and wires bridged the contacts to the right >> >> places, leaving the tracks as orphans.
** So fucking what ? That is not an example..
Likewise a number of Sinclair ZX Spectrums in the early days were made with
known faulty ULA chips and a logic chip glued to the surface with its legs
splayed and wired to make the circuit work.
** Still very much meant to be sold - so not a failed prototype.
The first batch of Phillips CD100s the very first CD player on the market >> >> had quite a lot of wires cut tracks and components wired in odd ways inside
it. I have to say that none of these what we might call bodges ever caused
any trouble during the lives of the products.
** Just destroyed your own bullshit case.
Do grow up.
And if you're going to insult someone, you need to post it to the group he reads it in.
** The "reply all '' icon works for me.
Fuckhead.
A manufacturer here in Sydney ( Jands Electronics) made a "pre-production" batch of a new model power amplifier for professional use.
They wisely chose to road test it in the expected environment - on the road with live bands.
They proved to be problematic in several respects and the design was heavily revised for the production version.
The sample amps were fully labelled with the maker's logo and the same model number as the later versions.
Think there were about 20 of them, put into storage for eventual disposal.
Then an enterprising staff member obtained them and decided he could sell them all to a local second hand dealer - letting him believe they were just like the regular models on sale at the time - but for a very low price so giving him a large mark up.
On Tue, 04 Jan 2022 20:47:16 -0000, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 23:49:48 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
NOTE: Continued excessive cross-posting thwarted. Number of
cross-posted newsgroups reduced from 4 to 2.
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:55:47 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
Intel don't ask for it back like the car rental place does. It'sWhy are engineering sample CPUs illegal to sell?
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000056190/processors.html
They are pre-production processors Intel loans to original equipment >>>>>> manufacturers (OEMs), original device manufacturers (ODMs), and
independent software vendors (ISVs) to be used in the product design >>>>>> cycle before product launch.
and
- Produced by Intel are the sole property of Intel.
- Produced by Intel are Intel Confidential.
- Are provided by Intel under nondisclosure and/or special loan
agreement terms with restrictions on the recipient's handling and
use.
- Are not for sale or resale.
- May not have passed commercial regulatory requirements.
Are not covered under Intel warranty and are generally not supported >>>>>> by Intel
You can rent a car. You can test drive a demo. It's NOT your car. >>>>>
given not loaned.
Try reading the text above more slowly this time. It is explicitly loaned.
If they never take them back, it's not a loan. Can you loan me your
mower forever? No, that's called a gift.
Oh, did YOU happen to get all the paperwork allowing you to possess the >>>> engineering sample to definitely know the samples were not to be
returned?
Doesn't matter to me. I've paid the money and I have the product, any
theft that took place previously is not of my concern.
Your poor knowledge of basic UK law is concerning.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/handling-stolen-goods-2/
Knowingly handling stolen goods is illegal.
Not knowing they're stolen doesn't mean you get to keep them. They will
rightfully be confiscated from you.
It's not rightfull. The person who stole them should be made to reimburse me.
Brian Gaff Shithead Troll puked:
** You need to stop fucking your elderly mom.=============================
I've only seen this one post, but I know pre production models of things
can slip out for whatever reason.
** No you don't.
I had a computer once where the pcb had
been manufactured with a fault, tend you can clearly see back then where the
tracks had been manually cut and wires bridged the contacts to the right
places, leaving the tracks as orphans.
** So fucking what ? That is not an example..
Likewise a number of Sinclair ZX Spectrums in the early days were made with
known faulty ULA chips and a logic chip glued to the surface with its legs
splayed and wired to make the circuit work.
** Still very much meant to be sold - so not a failed prototype.
The first batch of Phillips CD100s the very first CD player on the market
had quite a lot of wires cut tracks and components wired in odd ways inside
it. I have to say that none of these what we might call bodges ever caused
any trouble during the lives of the products.
** Just destroyed your own bullshit case.
Do grow up.
Thanks for reinforcing your childishness.
And if you're going to insult someone, you need to post it to the group he reads it in.
** The "reply all '' icon works for me.
Fuckhead.
No, it's broken.
You're only posting to one group, and he isn't in it.
But my question was about selling them as engineering samples.
** The situations are parallel.
In both cases the items were not meant for sale for good reasons.
And assholes like YOU wanted to circumvent that decision for their own benefit.
No,
** Yes - you fucking LIAR
Again, "my question was about selling them as engineering samples",
** With a caveat they were not for sale as they may contain defects. Exactly like the 20 amps I cited.
FOAD you pig headed troll.
If the buyer knows what they're getting,
Knowingly handling stolen goods is illegal.
Not knowing they're stolen doesn't mean you get to keep them. They will rightfully be confiscated from you.
It's not rightfull.
The person who stole them should be made to reimburse me.
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2022 20:47:16 -0000, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:If they never take them back, it's not a loan. Can you loan me your
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 23:49:48 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
NOTE: Continued excessive cross-posting thwarted. Number of
cross-posted newsgroups reduced from 4 to 2.
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:55:47 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote: >>>>>>
Intel don't ask for it back like the car rental place does. It'sWhy are engineering sample CPUs illegal to sell?
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000056190/processors.html
They are pre-production processors Intel loans to original equipment >>>>>>> manufacturers (OEMs), original device manufacturers (ODMs), and
independent software vendors (ISVs) to be used in the product design >>>>>>> cycle before product launch.
and
- Produced by Intel are the sole property of Intel.
- Produced by Intel are Intel Confidential.
- Are provided by Intel under nondisclosure and/or special loan
agreement terms with restrictions on the recipient's handling and >>>>>>> use.
- Are not for sale or resale.
- May not have passed commercial regulatory requirements.
Are not covered under Intel warranty and are generally not supported >>>>>>> by Intel
You can rent a car. You can test drive a demo. It's NOT your car. >>>>>>
given not loaned.
Try reading the text above more slowly this time. It is explicitly loaned. >>
mower forever? No, that's called a gift.
Incorrect.
Oh, did YOU happen to get all the paperwork allowing you to possess the >>>>> engineering sample to definitely know the samples were not to be
returned?
Doesn't matter to me. I've paid the money and I have the product, any >>>> theft that took place previously is not of my concern.
Your poor knowledge of basic UK law is concerning.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/handling-stolen-goods-2/
Knowingly handling stolen goods is illegal.
Not knowing they're stolen doesn't mean you get to keep them. They will
rightfully be confiscated from you.
It's not rightfull. The person who stole them should be made to reimburse me.
Lol. You can always try to sue them. Good luck with that...
Raving Lunatic Arsehole Commander Kinsey wrote:
=========================================
Brian Gaff Shithead Troll puked:
** You need to stop fucking your elderly mom.=============================
I've only seen this one post, but I know pre production models of things
can slip out for whatever reason.
** No you don't.
I had a computer once where the pcb had
been manufactured with a fault, tend you can clearly see back then where the
tracks had been manually cut and wires bridged the contacts to the right
places, leaving the tracks as orphans.
** So fucking what ? That is not an example..
Likewise a number of Sinclair ZX Spectrums in the early days were made with
known faulty ULA chips and a logic chip glued to the surface with its legs
splayed and wired to make the circuit work.
** Still very much meant to be sold - so not a failed prototype.
The first batch of Phillips CD100s the very first CD player on the market
had quite a lot of wires cut tracks and components wired in odd ways inside
it. I have to say that none of these what we might call bodges ever caused
any trouble during the lives of the products.
** Just destroyed your own bullshit case.
Do grow up.
Thanks for reinforcing your childishness.
** But you need to stop mother fucking - really.
And if you're going to insult someone, you need to post it to the group he reads it in.
** The "reply all '' icon works for me.
Fuckhead.
No, it's broken.
** Tell Google Groups, not me.
You're only posting to one group, and he isn't in it.
** But *strangely* his words are .... and he reacted to my post.
Leave that old lady alone you cruel pervert.
=================================
Commander Kinsey Raving Lunatic wrote:
==============================
** Fake use of "if" condition.
But my question was about selling them as engineering samples.
** The situations are parallel.
In both cases the items were not meant for sale for good reasons.
And assholes like YOU wanted to circumvent that decision for their own benefit.
No,
** Yes - you fucking LIAR
Again, "my question was about selling them as engineering samples",
** With a caveat they were not for sale as they may contain defects.
Exactly like the 20 amps I cited.
FOAD you pig headed troll.
If the buyer knows what they're getting,
Just like ALL your narcissistic, fucked up, fake reasoning.
FOAD - asshole.
In article <a7a7f139-fbf3-467c-86f5-46f181638a42n@googlegroups.com>, pallison49@gmail.com says...
A manufacturer here in Sydney ( Jands Electronics) made a "pre-production" batch of a new model power amplifier for professional use.
They wisely chose to road test it in the expected environment - on the road with live bands.
They proved to be problematic in several respects and the design was heavily revised for the production version.
The sample amps were fully labelled with the maker's logo and the same model number as the later versions.
Think there were about 20 of them, put into storage for eventual disposal. >>
Then an enterprising staff member obtained them and decided he could sell them all to a local second hand dealer - letting him believe they were just like the regular models on sale at the time - but for a very low price so giving him a large mark up.
Sounds like many of the components comming out of China on ebay. Others
they must relable junk parts to company logos.
Brian Gaff Shithead Troll puked:
** You need to stop fucking your elderly mom.=============================
** Just destroyed your own bullshit case.
Do grow up.
Thanks for reinforcing your childishness.
** But you need to stop mother fucking - really.Don't be such a prude.
** Tell Google Groups, not me.
ROTFPMSL! You use google groups?!
I think I ought to killfile anyone using that shite.
You're only posting to one group, and he isn't in it.
** But *strangely* his words are .... and he reacted to my post.
AFAIK he's only in alt.computer.workshop.
On Tue, 04 Jan 2022 17:05:30 -0000, Andrew
<Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote:
On 04/01/2022 16:08, charles wrote:
In article <sr1psh$2l2$1@dont-email.me>, Harry Bloomfield Esq
<a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote:
rbowman wrote :
Osborne came out with a 100 column conversion for the Osborne 1. CMOS >>>>> was a new technology and while it normally saved power, dissipation
increased with frequency. The circuit would work until the chip got
hot. I replace it with the equivalent LS part and all was good.
The BBC computer had a similar problem - the early versions had to have >>>> an heatsink on a certain chip to keep it cool, I half remember.
I had one of the very early ones and don't remember any such problem.
They were supplied initially with a non-switching P/S that ran rather
hot, but a better switch-mode power supply (astec?) was supplied
free-of-charge a few months later.
The ones I encountered were very heavy, so I assume not switching. I
don't remember excessive heat. It's not like we used to run the CPUs
flat out back then.
On Tue, 04 Jan 2022 22:49:09 -0000, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2022 20:47:16 -0000, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:If they never take them back, it's not a loan. Can you loan me your
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 23:49:48 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
NOTE: Continued excessive cross-posting thwarted. Number of
cross-posted newsgroups reduced from 4 to 2.
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:55:47 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote: >>>>>>>
Intel don't ask for it back like the car rental place does. It's >>>>>>> given not loaned.Why are engineering sample CPUs illegal to sell?
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000056190/processors.html
They are pre-production processors Intel loans to original equipment >>>>>>>> manufacturers (OEMs), original device manufacturers (ODMs), and >>>>>>>> independent software vendors (ISVs) to be used in the product design >>>>>>>> cycle before product launch.
and
- Produced by Intel are the sole property of Intel.
- Produced by Intel are Intel Confidential.
- Are provided by Intel under nondisclosure and/or special loan >>>>>>>> agreement terms with restrictions on the recipient's handling and >>>>>>>> use.
- Are not for sale or resale.
- May not have passed commercial regulatory requirements.
Are not covered under Intel warranty and are generally not supported >>>>>>>> by Intel
You can rent a car. You can test drive a demo. It's NOT your car. >>>>>>>
Try reading the text above more slowly this time. It is explicitly loaned. >>>
mower forever? No, that's called a gift.
Incorrect.
Do you not understand what loan means? It means you temporarily are
allowed possession of my thing.
Oh, did YOU happen to get all the paperwork allowing you to possess the >>>>>> engineering sample to definitely know the samples were not to be
returned?
Doesn't matter to me. I've paid the money and I have the product, any >>>>> theft that took place previously is not of my concern.
Your poor knowledge of basic UK law is concerning.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/handling-stolen-goods-2/
Knowingly handling stolen goods is illegal.
Not knowing they're stolen doesn't mean you get to keep them. They will >>>> rightfully be confiscated from you.
It's not rightfull. The person who stole them should be made to reimburse me.
Lol. You can always try to sue them. Good luck with that...
You can actually. If you tell the police to ask the judge/magistrate,
they can award money to those who lost out, taking it from the thief.
What, you didn't have a Turbo button?
Raving Lunatic Arsehole Commander Kinsey wrote:
=========================================
Don't be such a prude.Brian Gaff Shithead Troll puked:
** You need to stop fucking your elderly mom.=============================
** Just destroyed your own bullshit case.
Do grow up.
Thanks for reinforcing your childishness.
** But you need to stop mother fucking - really.
** Take pig rooting instread.
** Tell Google Groups, not me.
ROTFPMSL! You use google groups?!
** Works really well.
I think I ought to killfile anyone using that shite.
** Go ahead = make my day ...
You're only posting to one group, and he isn't in it.
** But *strangely* his words are .... and he reacted to my post.
AFAIK he's only in alt.computer.workshop.
** I have known Brian Gaff for almost 20 years.
He lives in the UK, posts only on " uk.rec.audio ",
he is geriatric, blind and a massive troll.
But a not a raving, psycho morn like you.
On 01/04/2022 12:05 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2022 17:05:30 -0000, Andrew
<Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote:
On 04/01/2022 16:08, charles wrote:
In article <sr1psh$2l2$1@dont-email.me>, Harry Bloomfield Esq
<a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote:
rbowman wrote :
Osborne came out with a 100 column conversion for the Osborne 1. CMOS >>>>>> was a new technology and while it normally saved power, dissipation >>>>>> increased with frequency. The circuit would work until the chip got >>>>>> hot. I replace it with the equivalent LS part and all was good.
The BBC computer had a similar problem - the early versions had to have >>>>> an heatsink on a certain chip to keep it cool, I half remember.
I had one of the very early ones and don't remember any such problem.
They were supplied initially with a non-switching P/S that ran rather
hot, but a better switch-mode power supply (astec?) was supplied
free-of-charge a few months later.
The ones I encountered were very heavy, so I assume not switching. I
don't remember excessive heat. It's not like we used to run the CPUs
flat out back then.
What, you didn't have a Turbo button?
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2022 22:49:09 -0000, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2022 20:47:16 -0000, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 23:49:48 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote: >>>>>>
NOTE: Continued excessive cross-posting thwarted. Number of
cross-posted newsgroups reduced from 4 to 2.
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:55:47 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote: >>>>>>>>
Intel don't ask for it back like the car rental place does. It's >>>>>>>> given not loaned.Why are engineering sample CPUs illegal to sell?
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000056190/processors.html
They are pre-production processors Intel loans to original equipment >>>>>>>>> manufacturers (OEMs), original device manufacturers (ODMs), and >>>>>>>>> independent software vendors (ISVs) to be used in the product design >>>>>>>>> cycle before product launch.
and
- Produced by Intel are the sole property of Intel.
- Produced by Intel are Intel Confidential.
- Are provided by Intel under nondisclosure and/or special loan >>>>>>>>> agreement terms with restrictions on the recipient's handling and >>>>>>>>> use.
- Are not for sale or resale.
- May not have passed commercial regulatory requirements.
Are not covered under Intel warranty and are generally not supported >>>>>>>>> by Intel
You can rent a car. You can test drive a demo. It's NOT your car. >>>>>>>>
Try reading the text above more slowly this time. It is explicitly loaned.
If they never take them back, it's not a loan. Can you loan me your
mower forever? No, that's called a gift.
Incorrect.
Do you not understand what loan means? It means you temporarily are
allowed possession of my thing.
A loan term can be indefinite.
Oh, did YOU happen to get all the paperwork allowing you to possess the >>>>>>> engineering sample to definitely know the samples were not to be >>>>>>> returned?
Doesn't matter to me. I've paid the money and I have the product, any >>>>>> theft that took place previously is not of my concern.
Your poor knowledge of basic UK law is concerning.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/handling-stolen-goods-2/
Knowingly handling stolen goods is illegal.
Not knowing they're stolen doesn't mean you get to keep them. They will >>>>> rightfully be confiscated from you.
It's not rightfull. The person who stole them should be made to reimburse me.
Lol. You can always try to sue them. Good luck with that...
You can actually. If you tell the police to ask the judge/magistrate,
they can award money to those who lost out, taking it from the thief.
Only the original victim of the theft. Not subsequent buyers of the stolen goods.
Brian Gaff Shithead Troll puked:
=============================
** Just destroyed your own bullshit case.
** Works really well.Clearly not.
I think I ought to killfile anyone using that shite.
** Go ahead = make my day ...
You can only say that when brandishing a gun.
AFAIK he's only in alt.computer.workshop.
** I have known Brian Gaff for almost 20 years.
He lives in the UK, posts only on " uk.rec.audio ",
he is geriatric, blind and a massive troll.
But a not a raving, psycho morn like you.
Oops, wrong person, I was thinking of David.
He is blind, but the other two things are inapplicable.
Raving Lunatic Arsehole Commander Kinsey wrote:Quote properly.
=========================================
Clearly not.Brian Gaff Shithead Troll puked:
=============================
** Just destroyed your own bullshit case.
** Works really well.
** Bullshit.
Is he your idol?I think I ought to killfile anyone using that shite.
** Go ahead = make my day ...
You can only say that when brandishing a gun.
** More bullshit. When Reagan famously spoke it, there was no gun,
{[u$^* What's with the symbols you silly child?AFAIK he's only in alt.computer.workshop.
** I have known Brian Gaff for almost 20 years.
He lives in the UK, posts only on " uk.rec.audio ",
he is geriatric, blind and a massive troll.
But a not a raving, psycho morn like you.
Oops, wrong person, I was thinking of David.
** You are full of bullshit - right to the eyeballs.
He is blind, but the other two things are inapplicable.
** Brian Gaff is all of them and more.
Raving Lunatic Arsehole Commander Kinsey wrote:
=========================================
** When you have noting left to say -
SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!!
LOSER.
Raving Lunatic Fucking Arsehole Commander Kinsey wrote: =====================================
** When you have nothing left to say -
SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!!
ASD fucked LOSER.
Total FUCKWIT Commander Kinsey wrote:
=================================
Knowingly handling stolen goods is illegal.
Not knowing they're stolen doesn't mean you get to keep them. They will
rightfully be confiscated from you.
It's not rightfull.
** By law they must be - so rightful.
The person who stole them should be made to reimburse me.
** LOL - more narcissistic CRAP from a total fuckhead.
Responsibility works it's way up the tree.
Each party owes the one they supplied, unless the *purchaser* was knowing OR reckless at to legal ownership.
Then they are liable for handling stolen property.
FYI:
In my business ( electronics repairs) I sometimes get offered stolen items to fix.
The giveaway is the "owner" has no clue about the fault or how the thing is even operated.
Refusing to say how or where he got it is a cincher as are missing serial numbers.
If I know or reasonably suspect an item in my workshop was stolen, I cannot legally give it back.
Funny how the culprits do not see it that way....
..... Phil
On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 20:33:34 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (aka "Commander Kinsey", >"James Wilkinson", "Steven Wanker","Bruce Farquar", "Fred Johnson, etc.),
the pathological resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs, >blathered again:
<FLUSH the subnormal sociopathic trolling attention whore's latest >attention-baiting sick bullshit unread again>
On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 20:33:34 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (aka "Commander Kinsey", >>"James Wilkinson", "Steven Wanker","Bruce Farquar", "Fred Johnson, etc.), >>the pathological resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs, >>blathered again:
<FLUSH the subnormal sociopathic trolling attention whore's latest >>attention-baiting sick bullshit unread again>
He asked a reasonable, on-topic for S.E.D. question.
It may be a PTC thermistor current limiter.
They are vastly different.
Bill
Try an ohmmeter.
You could
Think hard about it
It can't. Maybe that yellow disk is not a capacitor.
On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 21:55:04 +0100, Peeler <trolltrap@valid.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 20:33:34 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (aka "Commander >>Kinsey",
"James Wilkinson", "Steven Wanker","Bruce Farquar", "Fred Johnson, etc.), >>the pathological resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs, >>blathered again:
<FLUSH the subnormal sociopathic trolling attention whore's latest >>attention-baiting sick bullshit unread again>
He asked a reasonable, on-topic for S.E.D. question.
It may be a PTC thermistor current limiter.
--
I yam what I yam - Popeye
Its called a lossless charger.
The shape of the edge of the device,
hints that it is not a disc capacitor.
On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 15:57:26 -0800, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com, >another mentally deficient, troll-feeding, senile asshole, blathered again:
It can't. Maybe that yellow disk is not a capacitor.
Maybe that PROVEN clinically insane attention whore is just a trolling piece >of shit, senile twit? <VBG>
On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 20:11:04 -0800, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com, >another mentally deficient, troll-feeding senile twit, babbled again:
You could
Think hard about it
LOL Troll-feeding senile asshole still hasn't checked what's going on!
On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 15:59:33 -0800, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com, >another mentally deficient, troll-feeding, senile asshole, blathered:
Try an ohmmeter.
Try not to play that clinically insane troll's game, senile twit! <tsk>
Maybe that PROVEN clinically insane attention whore is just a trolling piece >>of shit, senile twit? <VBG>
I suspect he knows more about electronics than you do.
On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 07:47:20 -0800, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com, >another mentally deficient, troll-feeding, senile asshole, blathered again:
Maybe that PROVEN clinically insane attention whore is just a trolling piece >>>of shit, senile twit? <VBG>
I suspect he knows more about electronics than you do.
You poor troll-feeding senile idiot STILL didn't get it! <BG>
LOL Troll-feeding senile asshole still hasn't checked what's going on!
Do you know anything about electronics?
Try not to play that clinically insane troll's game, senile twit! <tsk>
Do you own an ohmmeter?
You poor troll-feeding senile idiot STILL didn't get it! <BG>
Confirmed.
Yes. With a charger as you described, yes.
On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 08:37:29 -0800, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com, >another mentally deficient, troll-feeding senile twit, babbled again:
wrote:
Try not to play that clinically insane troll's game, senile twit! <tsk>
Do you own an ohmmeter?
Do you have any pills against senility, troll-feeding senile asshole? TAKE >them!
Do you have any pills against senility, troll-feeding senile asshole? TAKE >>them!
I'll take that answer as "no". Or maybe "what's an ohmmeter?"
I don't believe that it could.
On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 09:15:31 -0800, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com, >another mentally deficient, troll-feeding senile twit, babbled again:
wrote:
You poor troll-feeding senile idiot STILL didn't get it! <BG>
Confirmed.
Your senility, yes!
You poor troll-feeding senile idiot STILL didn't get it! <BG>
Confirmed.
Your senility, yes!
Generating lame, profane insults is a common skill set. How's the pay?
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:No point as I'll see it in the other post.
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:58:13 -0000, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 19:46:24 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote: >>>>
On 1/3/2022 12:21 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Why are engineering sample CPUs illegal to sell?
https://www.intel.ca/content/www/ca/en/support/articles/000056190/processors.html
"Can I get engineering sample processors from Intel?
Due to the pre-production nature of the engineering sample processors,
they are generally only loaned to OEMs, ODMs, and ISVs for pre-production
test and evaluation work under specific contractual terms and conditions
to assure the protection of assets and confidential information. >>>>>
Engineering sample processors are not made available
to the general public by Intel."
In effect, you're in possession of stolen goods.
They're not stolen, since Intel don't take them back from who they "lent" them to.
The whole idea is, no matter what happens, those goods are
not to be circulating in the hands of the public. You could give
them back to the local rep, and he could have them shredded.
(Some factories shred their e-waste to prevent recovery by
waste removal people.)
Those samples could have defects, maybe they don't have
a 100,000 hour operating life (early mortality). They might not
even compute properly at full speed. Like an ES 3GHz processor,
there might be an errata sheet in the box, stating you're supposed>>>>> to run them at 2GHz.
Intel could also mark them with sufficient information, to
trace them back to who received them. To determine who is leaking
them and violating a contract term.
With other manufacturers, those parts are the equivalent of the
"qual barrel". And the stuff in the qual barrel, is definitely
not production quality.
Not allowing them to be sold, is to protect *you* from receiving
inferior goods.
They clearly say sample on them. If I bought one knowing it's a sample, why would I have a problem?
Someone could rent a car, and then sell it to you. The sale was illegal >>> by the seller, but YOU are in possesion of stolen property.
WHO sold you the engineering sample?
You've stated those two things in another post, stop repeating yourself.
Still applicable.
That was the best retort you could come up with?It wasn't a retort, I was pointing out you're wasting time saying the same thing multiple times.
And you STILL haven't answered who sold you or is selling those samples.Why would I want you to grass him off?
Hmm, maybe you're the seller. Reminds of the scammers on eBay that
slice up a volume license to separate individual buyers.
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