• [Wargamer] DnD fans debate whether sushi is unrealistic in a make-believe game

    From Kyonshi@gmkeros@gmail.com to rec.games.frp.dnd,rec.food.historic,rec.food.cooking on Fri Sep 6 09:40:14 2024
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    Source: https://www.wargamer.com/dnd/taco-sushi-debate


    DnD fans debate whether sushi is unrealistic in a make-believe game

    New art from the Dungeons and Dragons PlayerrCOs Handbook has sparked
    debates about racism and what real-world foods fit in a fantasy game.

    Mollie Russell

    Published: 2024-09-05
    Dungeons and Dragons

    Bewilderingly, sushi and tacos have become the focus of a heated
    Dungeons and Dragons discussion online, as art from the new D&D PlayerrCOs Handbook happens to feature both of these foods. After a fan Tweet from September 1 decried this artistic choice as rCLnonsenserCY, several members
    of the D&D community rushed to defend sushi and tacosrCO status as fantasy game food.

    That original tweet came from X user osgamer74, who shared new art for
    the HeroesrCO Feast spell from the 2024 PlayerrCOs Handbook. rCLTacos? Sushi? What the fuck is this nonsense?rCY, they comment.

    That original post has gained a lot of traction (so much that its
    creator has now muted the post), so osgamer74 has expanded on their
    original thought. Apparently, their, er, rCybeefrCO with the artwork is that sushi and tacos are too rCLcontemporaryrCY for D&DrCOs mostly faux-medieval settings. They equate them to McDonaldrCOs meals, as osgamer74 can buy
    both in their local mall.

    For context, both these foods are closer to the current day than they
    are Medieval times, which serve as the main influence for D&DrCOs
    particular flavor of fantasy. Sushi in some form has been around for centuries, but the dish as we know it today is thought to have been
    invented in 1824, and it was already available in America by the early
    1900s thanks to immigration.

    Tacos are also an eighteenth-century creation, though there is some
    debate about exactly when and how the food came to be. Both foods
    reached Europe at a later date, with the first records of sushi
    appearing in the UK in the 1950s, and the first UK Mexican restaurant
    opening in 1982.

    However, anachronisms have rarely bothered Dungeons and Dragons fans
    before. Potatoes are often a staple food for the fantasy game, despite
    only arriving in Britain in the 1580s. The HeroesrCO Feast art also shows pumpkin as part of the meal, and these werenrCOt available in Europe until
    the 16th century. Nothing about this meal is particularly medieval. Nevertheless, osgamer74 has said that theyrCOre rCLfine with pumpkinsrCY as part of the feast.

    Comments like this have led many online to call a spade a spade and
    accuse the post of racism.

    Dungeons and Dragons writer and presenter B. Dave Walters shared the
    post, adding rCLPeople that complain about this sort of thing never seem
    to be bothered with overtly western medieval food and customs in their rCyfantasyrCO game. Weird, I wonder why.rCY rCLIn addition to everything else, I
    love that there are literally Samurai in D&D but Sushi is a bridge too
    farrCY, Walters adds. This post is accompanied by an image that says rCycareful, your racism is showingrCO.

    Ennie-winning RPG designer Alison Cybe shares a similar sentiment,
    tweeting: rCLThe reason folks get so pissy about artwork in D&D always
    comes back to the idea of fantasy being history; specifically WHITE
    history. Tacos & sushi are rCytoo exoticrCO to be real for them, because
    their idea of the genre excludes non-whites.rCY

    While much of D&DrCOs world building is influenced by Medieval European fantasy tropes, the tabletop RPG has always taken inspiration from
    non-white cultures. 1985rCOs Oriental Adventures is not a kind and
    respectful portrayal of Asian culture, but it shows that all editions of Dungeons and Dragons have taken images and ideas from diverse nations.
    DnD Monks have been in the game since the rCy70s, and Samurai are also a first-edition character option.

    In modern Dungeons and Dragons, books like Journeys Through the Radiant Citadel have created entire settings inspired by non-white communities,
    with far more nuanced and respectful portrayals of such cultures. Plus, thererCOs Pathfinder, D&DrCOs sibling rival, who recently proved in its Tian Xia character guide that Sailor Moon, Zelda, and Godzilla references can
    work in a heroic fantasy RPG.

    Art depicting sushi and tacos has caused a divide on D&D social media,
    but if the actual DnD books are anything to go by, such diverse
    influences are here to stay for tabletop games.

    For more Dungeons and Dragons updates, be sure to follow Wargamer on
    Google News. We can keep you up to date with the DnD release schedule,
    or we can help you choose the right DnD classes and DnD races for your
    next character.



    Author's bio: Mollie Russell Mollie Russell is Wargamer's resident D&D
    and guides specialist. She has a degree in Creative Writing and English Literature, and you can also find her writing at Pocket Tactics and in
    various poetry magazines. She's covered some of the biggest and weirdest releases for Wargamer - including the DnD movie, Frosthaven, and
    Baldur's Gate 3. Mollie is constantly playing Dungeons and Dragons, but
    she's still on her quest to try every tabletop RPG she can get her hands
    on. An avid fan of MTG drafts and horror board games, she will take any opportunity to info-dump about why Blood on the Clocktower is the best
    social deduction game. (She/Her)


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  • From Ed P@esp@snet.n to rec.games.frp.dnd,rec.food.historic on Fri Sep 6 09:34:29 2024
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On 9/6/2024 3:40 AM, Kyonshi wrote:
    Source: https://www.wargamer.com/dnd/taco-sushi-debate


    DnD fans debate whether sushi is unrealistic in a make-believe game

    New art from the Dungeons and Dragons PlayerrCOs Handbook has sparked debates about racism and what real-world foods fit in a fantasy game.

    Mollie Russell

    Published: 2024-09-05
    Dungeons and Dragons

    Bewilderingly, sushi and tacos have become the focus of a heated
    Dungeons and Dragons discussion online, as art from the new D&D PlayerrCOs Handbook happens to feature both of these foods. After a fan Tweet from September 1 decried this artistic choice as rCLnonsenserCY, several members of the D&D community rushed to defend sushi and tacosrCO status as fantasy game food.

    That original tweet came from X user osgamer74, who shared new art for
    the HeroesrCO Feast spell from the 2024 PlayerrCOs Handbook. rCLTacos? Sushi?
    What the fuck is this nonsense?rCY, they comment.

    That original post has gained a lot of traction (so much that its
    creator has now muted the post), so osgamer74 has expanded on their
    original thought. Apparently, their, er, rCybeefrCO with the artwork is that sushi and tacos are too rCLcontemporaryrCY for D&DrCOs mostly faux-medieval settings. They equate them to McDonaldrCOs meals, as osgamer74 can buy
    both in their local mall.

    Better just to eat pizza while playing the game
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@spallshurgenson@gmail.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Fri Sep 6 12:31:32 2024
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On Fri, 6 Sep 2024 09:34:29 -0400, Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:

    On 9/6/2024 3:40 AM, Kyonshi wrote:
    Source: https://www.wargamer.com/dnd/taco-sushi-debate


    DnD fans debate whether sushi is unrealistic in a make-believe game

    New art from the Dungeons and Dragons PlayerAs Handbook has sparked
    debates about racism and what real-world foods fit in a fantasy game.

    Mollie Russell

    Published: 2024-09-05
    Dungeons and Dragons

    Bewilderingly, sushi and tacos have become the focus of a heated
    Dungeons and Dragons discussion online, as art from the new D&D PlayerAs
    Handbook happens to feature both of these foods. After a fan Tweet from
    September 1 decried this artistic choice as ononsenseo, several members
    of the D&D community rushed to defend sushi and tacosA status as fantasy
    game food.

    That original tweet came from X user osgamer74, who shared new art for
    the HeroesA Feast spell from the 2024 PlayerAs Handbook. oTacos? Sushi?
    What the fuck is this nonsense?o, they comment.

    That original post has gained a lot of traction (so much that its
    creator has now muted the post), so osgamer74 has expanded on their
    original thought. Apparently, their, er, abeefA with the artwork is that
    sushi and tacos are too ocontemporaryo for D&DAs mostly faux-medieval
    settings. They equate them to McDonaldAs meals, as osgamer74 can buy
    both in their local mall.

    Better just to eat pizza while playing the game

    Oh, for the days when a gaming session revolved around pizza, crisps,
    and soda!

    [And after a particularly good session, maybe a run to
    the donut shop to celebrate!]

    Nowadays,* none of our group can afford such dangerous diets. Oh sure,
    we might splurge on some junk food (because D&D without crisps isn't
    the same; you need to have SOMETHING at hand to throw at the DM when
    he makes a ruling you don't like! ;-)

    But as often we're likely just do without the unhealthy stuff,
    replacing it with stuff that doesn't destroy our aging bodies so
    quickly. We just can't afford to do it anymore. Why, the other day*
    somebody brought KALE to munch on! The horror!

    ....

    As for the sushi/topic debate... it's just silly. Yes, it's
    unrealistic that a completely different culture in a completely
    different world would create a snack that looks exactly like modern
    day food (especially tacos, which are heavily dependent on modern food processing). But, at the same time, the ideas of these food aren't so
    alien: pound wheat and water to make a tortilla, wrap it around some
    meat and veggies and you get something similar to a taco. Eating fish
    and veggies raw isn't that unusual either.

    Plus, we're happy to overlook so many other anachronisms in the game
    that drawing the line at taco and sushi is ridiculous. In a world
    where elves are using rifles to shoot at plate-armored dwarves (who
    happily munch on sandwiches in their downtime), _that_ is the hill you
    want to die on in the battle about realism?

    Although maybe it's all just lingering resentment over 2nd edition
    D&D's much-maligned attack-roll system that is the cause of it all.
    Taco is only one letter away from THACO, after all. ;-)






    ------------------
    * sadly, it's actually been a while since I played, so references to
    'nowadays' and 'the other day' should be assumed to mean 'a couple
    years ago' ;-)


    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Kyonshi@gmkeros@gmail.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Fri Sep 6 23:50:01 2024
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On 9/6/2024 6:31 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
    On Fri, 6 Sep 2024 09:34:29 -0400, Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:

    On 9/6/2024 3:40 AM, Kyonshi wrote:
    Source: https://www.wargamer.com/dnd/taco-sushi-debate


    DnD fans debate whether sushi is unrealistic in a make-believe game

    New art from the Dungeons and Dragons PlayerrCOs Handbook has sparked
    debates about racism and what real-world foods fit in a fantasy game.

    Mollie Russell

    Published: 2024-09-05
    Dungeons and Dragons

    Bewilderingly, sushi and tacos have become the focus of a heated
    Dungeons and Dragons discussion online, as art from the new D&D PlayerrCOs >>> Handbook happens to feature both of these foods. After a fan Tweet from
    September 1 decried this artistic choice as rCLnonsenserCY, several members >>> of the D&D community rushed to defend sushi and tacosrCO status as fantasy >>> game food.

    That original tweet came from X user osgamer74, who shared new art for
    the HeroesrCO Feast spell from the 2024 PlayerrCOs Handbook. rCLTacos? Sushi?
    What the fuck is this nonsense?rCY, they comment.

    That original post has gained a lot of traction (so much that its
    creator has now muted the post), so osgamer74 has expanded on their
    original thought. Apparently, their, er, rCybeefrCO with the artwork is that
    sushi and tacos are too rCLcontemporaryrCY for D&DrCOs mostly faux-medieval >>> settings. They equate them to McDonaldrCOs meals, as osgamer74 can buy
    both in their local mall.

    Better just to eat pizza while playing the game

    Oh, for the days when a gaming session revolved around pizza, crisps,
    and soda!

    I mean, pizza is of course the best kind of dish for a lot of events,
    and game nights are just one of them.
    Beer was actually the drink of choice for a long time, as I found that
    about one or two beers during a game helped with lubricating the game.
    By now I should not drink anything anymore (meds...) and so that has
    fallen to the wayside.


    [And after a particularly good session, maybe a run to
    the donut shop to celebrate!]

    Nowadays,* none of our group can afford such dangerous diets. Oh sure,
    we might splurge on some junk food (because D&D without crisps isn't
    the same; you need to have SOMETHING at hand to throw at the DM when
    he makes a ruling you don't like! ;-)

    But as often we're likely just do without the unhealthy stuff,
    replacing it with stuff that doesn't destroy our aging bodies so
    quickly. We just can't afford to do it anymore. Why, the other day*
    somebody brought KALE to munch on! The horror!

    Well, but kale is perfect to throw at a DM doing bad rolls...


    ....

    As for the sushi/topic debate... it's just silly. Yes, it's
    unrealistic that a completely different culture in a completely
    different world would create a snack that looks exactly like modern
    day food (especially tacos, which are heavily dependent on modern food processing). But, at the same time, the ideas of these food aren't so
    alien: pound wheat and water to make a tortilla, wrap it around some
    meat and veggies and you get something similar to a taco. Eating fish
    and veggies raw isn't that unusual either.

    Plus, we're happy to overlook so many other anachronisms in the game
    that drawing the line at taco and sushi is ridiculous. In a world
    where elves are using rifles to shoot at plate-armored dwarves (who
    happily munch on sandwiches in their downtime), _that_ is the hill you
    want to die on in the battle about realism?

    I think the main issue is that people don't really see it as
    anachronisms, because that's just how they think a medieval world would
    be. I had this discussion earlier where someone linked to an article (https://www.blogofholding.com/?p=7182) that was arguing that DnD is
    basically anti-medieval. In fact, what I found to be a nice quote:
    "ThererCOs more explicit textual support in OD&D for Mars than there is
    for fantasy medieval Europe."


    Although maybe it's all just lingering resentment over 2nd edition
    D&D's much-maligned attack-roll system that is the cause of it all.
    Taco is only one letter away from THACO, after all. ;-)

    I occasionally understand THAC0, but even when I was playing with it it
    felt like an enormous kludge. Either the old table-lookup method or the
    simple Attack-roll system from 3rd edition always made more sense (and
    were mathematically equivalent.
    DnD has had this habit of keeping utterly baffling artifacts from the
    early times of the hobby for way too long, long after everyone else
    already switched to something way easier.
    The same actually with descending AC. I know the arguments for it, I
    just don't know why anyone would be making them in good faith.

    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Chmelik@dchmelik@gmail.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Sat Sep 7 04:19:04 2024
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 12:31:32 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
    [...]
    Nowadays,* none of our group can afford such dangerous diets. Oh sure,
    we might splurge on some junk food (because D&D without crisps isn't the same; you need to have SOMETHING at hand to throw at the DM when he
    makes a ruling you don't like! ;-)

    My doctor said I shouldn't either, except if I eat healthy seven days/week then one day/week I can have a meal whatever I want (though I was born vegetarian/vegan... if I wasn't, don't know he'd say that or tells others
    at least eat anything you want vegetarian/vegan).

    But as often we're likely just do without the unhealthy stuff, replacing
    it with stuff that doesn't destroy our aging bodies so quickly. We just
    can't afford to do it anymore. Why, the other day* somebody brought KALE
    to munch on! The horror!

    Why not kale crisps/chips? Though price came down, they still cost more
    than stuff I'd thow at Dungeon Master (DM). I usually get many discount
    kale chip bags at overstock stores like Grocery Outlet. Some flavours surprisingly taste better than some potato crisps/chips & nachos, which of course baked (usually high-salted) and unsalted (usually high oil) ones
    exist also... some people at a vegetarian society showed us they just cut
    up corn tortillas and dehydrate/bake their own unsalted baked nachos. but they're suprisingly almost as good... I even dehydrated my own potato
    crisps similarly. Similar to kale crisps are seaweed snacks, though might sometimes be cheaper, I avoid since Fukushima incident spread throughout
    all oceans.

    My doctor said don't eat junk food but said popcorn isn't junk food. He's
    in a health philosophy against salt and oil though, and historically
    against herbs/spices, but newer people in it found some can be very
    healthy, so those and nutritional yeast can flavour popcorn and homemade crisps/chips almost as good as Doritos. My sibling--a dietician--
    disagreed with him and said we need some salt anyway, but don't overdo it.

    I think nuts & seeds are healthier raw, but there recipes exist making
    those similar to crisps/chips (like sticks) which unless have excess salt
    I don't think are as bad as crisps/chips, so I buy such sticks in bulk.

    So, I think there are still a fair number of healthy snacks for gaming. I also always use suger-free soda/cola/pop, which I mean doesn't have (high fructose) corn syrup--a sugar--either (careful if you ask because many
    people are ignorant). Unfortunately fruit juice has almost as much, so I
    use some (or mixed with) vegetable juice, or soda/cola/pop sweetened with stevia (some people dislike the taste), or herb or green or black, not necessary to sweeten, but one could use lemon/lime or sweeten with sucanat
    or liquorice or stevia.

    In classic D&D (DD) I'm an elf (played classic, and advanced (AD&D, ADD)
    first (1st, 1E, 1) and second editions, and these using some aspects of previous editions, all basically backwards-compatible... never played
    2000s so-called 'third' edition, though have original 1980s third edition,
    and I don't plan to play anything past ADD2.)


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  • From Spalls Hurgenson@spallshurgenson@gmail.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Sat Sep 7 12:28:40 2024
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On Fri, 6 Sep 2024 23:50:01 +0200, Kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 9/6/2024 6:31 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:


    Although maybe it's all just lingering resentment over 2nd edition
    D&D's much-maligned attack-roll system that is the cause of it all.
    Taco is only one letter away from THACO, after all. ;-)

    I occasionally understand THAC0, but even when I was playing with it it
    felt like an enormous kludge. Either the old table-lookup method or the >simple Attack-roll system from 3rd edition always made more sense (and
    were mathematically equivalent.
    DnD has had this habit of keeping utterly baffling artifacts from the
    early times of the hobby for way too long, long after everyone else
    already switched to something way easier.
    The same actually with descending AC. I know the arguments for it, I
    just don't know why anyone would be making them in good faith.

    I'm a firm supporter of descending AC, but I can't in any way argue
    for its inclusion in good faith. As much as I dislike a lot of stuff
    in 3E+, I can't disagree that many of the changes they made _were_ for
    the better. Especially stuff like changing AC going up as it improved. Old-school D&D was really weird in how, in some cases, lower numbers
    were better and in other cases, you wanted to roll high. 3E (and
    onwards) fixed a lot of these oddities.

    My preference for AC-going-down is almost entirely nostalgic. I like
    it because it's what I learned, and I feel oddities like that are one
    of the things that gave D&D its own character.

    [There's maybe a little gatekeeping involved too; a bit of
    "keeping the rules weird to keep the normies out." But
    I'm not proud of that bit ;-)]

    But, yeah, mostly when I argue in favor of AC-goes-down, it's meant
    pretty tongue-in-cheek. Same with THAC0. I mean, I can do it in my
    head and enjoy it, but boy did it discourage a lot of people from
    engaging with the game. I mean, it was better than the constant table-
    look-ups of 1E but not by much.

    But, honestly, the rules and mechanics were never the most important
    part of our games anyway. We stuck with old-school D&D because of
    familiarity more than anything.


    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Justisaur@justisaur@yahoo.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Fri Sep 13 15:34:59 2024
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On 9/7/2024 9:28 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
    On Fri, 6 Sep 2024 23:50:01 +0200, Kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 9/6/2024 6:31 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:


    Although maybe it's all just lingering resentment over 2nd edition
    D&D's much-maligned attack-roll system that is the cause of it all.
    Taco is only one letter away from THACO, after all. ;-)

    I occasionally understand THAC0, but even when I was playing with it it
    felt like an enormous kludge. Either the old table-lookup method or the
    simple Attack-roll system from 3rd edition always made more sense (and
    were mathematically equivalent.
    DnD has had this habit of keeping utterly baffling artifacts from the
    early times of the hobby for way too long, long after everyone else
    already switched to something way easier.
    The same actually with descending AC. I know the arguments for it, I
    just don't know why anyone would be making them in good faith.

    I'm a firm supporter of descending AC, but I can't in any way argue
    for its inclusion in good faith. As much as I dislike a lot of stuff
    in 3E+, I can't disagree that many of the changes they made _were_ for
    the better. Especially stuff like changing AC going up as it improved. Old-school D&D was really weird in how, in some cases, lower numbers
    were better and in other cases, you wanted to roll high. 3E (and
    onwards) fixed a lot of these oddities.

    My preference for AC-going-down is almost entirely nostalgic. I like
    it because it's what I learned, and I feel oddities like that are one
    of the things that gave D&D its own character.

    [There's maybe a little gatekeeping involved too; a bit of
    "keeping the rules weird to keep the normies out." But
    I'm not proud of that bit ;-)]

    But, yeah, mostly when I argue in favor of AC-goes-down, it's meant
    pretty tongue-in-cheek. Same with THAC0. I mean, I can do it in my
    head and enjoy it, but boy did it discourage a lot of people from
    engaging with the game. I mean, it was better than the constant table- look-ups of 1E but not by much.


    My only defense is it's to prevent players using loaded dice. As A DM
    it was no issue as that's how I learned it (well thac0 with 2e) and I
    just tell you if you hit or miss, you don't need to know it at all.

    That and reverse compatibility. Easy enough to change it on the fly if
    using the opposite for monsters or whatever.

    The only other improvement I can think 3e+ made was allowing M-Us to
    cast more than one spell at first level (not withstanding 2e specialists
    and 1e cantrips)
    --
    -Justisaur

    |+-|+
    (\_/)\
    `-'\ `--.___,
    -|-4'\( ,_.-'
    \\
    ^'
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@spallshurgenson@gmail.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Fri Sep 13 21:18:19 2024
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On Fri, 13 Sep 2024 15:34:59 -0700, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    On 9/7/2024 9:28 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
    On Fri, 6 Sep 2024 23:50:01 +0200, Kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 9/6/2024 6:31 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:


    Although maybe it's all just lingering resentment over 2nd edition
    D&D's much-maligned attack-roll system that is the cause of it all.
    Taco is only one letter away from THACO, after all. ;-)

    I occasionally understand THAC0, but even when I was playing with it it
    felt like an enormous kludge. Either the old table-lookup method or the
    simple Attack-roll system from 3rd edition always made more sense (and
    were mathematically equivalent.
    DnD has had this habit of keeping utterly baffling artifacts from the
    early times of the hobby for way too long, long after everyone else
    already switched to something way easier.
    The same actually with descending AC. I know the arguments for it, I
    just don't know why anyone would be making them in good faith.

    I'm a firm supporter of descending AC, but I can't in any way argue
    for its inclusion in good faith. As much as I dislike a lot of stuff
    in 3E+, I can't disagree that many of the changes they made _were_ for
    the better. Especially stuff like changing AC going up as it improved.
    Old-school D&D was really weird in how, in some cases, lower numbers
    were better and in other cases, you wanted to roll high. 3E (and
    onwards) fixed a lot of these oddities.

    My preference for AC-going-down is almost entirely nostalgic. I like
    it because it's what I learned, and I feel oddities like that are one
    of the things that gave D&D its own character.

    [There's maybe a little gatekeeping involved too; a bit of
    "keeping the rules weird to keep the normies out." But
    I'm not proud of that bit ;-)]

    But, yeah, mostly when I argue in favor of AC-goes-down, it's meant
    pretty tongue-in-cheek. Same with THAC0. I mean, I can do it in my
    head and enjoy it, but boy did it discourage a lot of people from
    engaging with the game. I mean, it was better than the constant table-
    look-ups of 1E but not by much.


    My only defense is it's to prevent players using loaded dice. As A DM
    it was no issue as that's how I learned it (well thac0 with 2e) and I
    just tell you if you hit or miss, you don't need to know it at all.

    That and reverse compatibility. Easy enough to change it on the fly if >using the opposite for monsters or whatever.

    It also (sort of, maybe, not really) put a cap on max AC. 10 was the
    worst, and -10 was the best you were going to get.

    [Technically, of course, there was nothing that prevented an
    armor class lower than -10, but I never saw that happen].

    D&D 3E lacks that limit, and I've seen ACs of 30 and higher after all
    buffs have been taken into consideration. I've frequently complained
    about the power creep in later editions of D&D -how 3E and beyond
    started feeling like superhero adventures- and that's one of the
    reasons.


    The only other improvement I can think 3e+ made was allowing M-Us to
    cast more than one spell at first level (not withstanding 2e specialists
    and 1e cantrips)

    Yeah, 1st level Magic Users were always rough in old D&D I know the
    logic is that their power scales upwards and by the time they're
    twentieth, the fact that they've near-god level magic is supposed to
    make up for how under-powered they are at the start, but we almost
    never played our characters that long (they tended to get retired
    around 10th level).

    So our general house rule was that high Intelligence (which, natch,
    every mage has) got you an extra spell, cantrips were free* and you
    could swap out your memorized combat spells for 'utility spells' at
    will*. We also heavily utilized the 2nd ed proficiency system, and
    since number of proficiencies were also linked to intelligence, the
    wizards greatly benefited there too. All in all, it gave the low-level
    mage a more well-rounded role than the usual 'wait in back until the
    perfect time to cast their one spell' tactic.

    No relief from that d4 Hit-Die or the can't wear armor thing, though.
    Or the general distrust all wizards faced in my campaigns. Gotta
    balance those boons somehow ;-P






    * these boons were understood to be at the whim of the DM, and if a
    player abused the ability they'd lose them
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