From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

On 6/19/2024 11:22 AM, Kyonshi wrote:

Source: https://www.starburstmagazine.com/next-edition-of-dungeons-dragons-changes-everything/

Next Edition of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS Changes Everything

[snip]


spoilers: it did not actually change all that much

mostly some new options and monsters from what I can see, a bit of clarification on the how to play.

So much for the One DnD thing that included all other editions.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

Source: https://www.starburstmagazine.com/next-edition-of-dungeons-dragons-changes-everything/

Next Edition of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS Changes Everything

Posted on June 19 2024 By Ed FortuneIn Book, Gaming, News


The worldrCOs most played tabletop roleplaying game, Dungeons & Dragons,
has a new edition on its way; itrCOs now available for pre-order. This 50th-anniversary edition is wholly compatible with the incredibly
popular 5th Edition while also promising to do something new.

The history of D&D is full of revisions; the game is constantly being
refined and tinkered with, though the 2024 editions promise to clarify
and make the game more balanced and accessible. The future of D&D is incremental change rather than radical shifts; time will tell if that
truly does become the future of this iconic game.

The new PlayerrCOs Handbook (PHB) has some pretty interesting changes. For
a start, it no longer assumes that you know how to play the game. The
old model was that the PHB was something you picked up as you got into
D&D, either through a friend or through one of the many starter sets.
This assumption has been abandoned in favour of the brightly illustrated rCyhow to playrCO chapter. This isnrCOt new to RPGs, but it is something werCOve
never seen in D&D.



The PHB also revises and changes character creation. Character options
are much more flexible. The upshot of this means that players are
likelier to pick elf, human or dwarf characters because thatrCOs the story they want to tell rather than for a mechanical advantage. Feats (special abilities) have become tied to your characters background, and are
designed [sic!]


Character classes have also been overhauled. Of the twelve character
classes you can play, each has four sub-classes, for a total of 48. This
does mean that Wizard and Cleric characters only get four subclasses
each, and traditionally those types of characters get a whole laundry
list of options. DonrCOt panic. This new edition is completely compatible
with the older iteration of the game, so the multi-class Grave Domain /
War Magic character you have planned is still totally doable.

Monk and Ranger classes have been overhauled to be more attractive to
players (previously, they were the least popular options), and at least sixteen of the subclasses have been radically changed to be more fun and interesting to play.



TheyrCOve brought in the old rCyshopping cataloguerCO style of presenting equipment; this was one of the more interesting bits of the older
versions of the game, as you could actually see what the difference
between a spear and a javelin was. There are more illustrations
throughout the three core books than in the previous version. The
Players Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide, and Monster Manual all promise
to be prettier.

Fans of D&DrCOs fourth edition will be delighted to hear that the Dungeon MasterrCOs Guide also brings back solid advice on how to run and manage a campaign (something the fourth edition did very well.) In addition, it contains a sample campaign, namely Greyhawk, D&DrCOs very first setting
and the default world for the first edition of the game. It will also
contain rules on Bastions; basically a way for characters to build a
power base in the game world. This feature was part of the game
primarily back in the 1970s and rCO80s and is an artefact of D&DrCOs origins as a wargame. This style of gameplay has been missing from official D&D
since the rCO00s and itrCOs reintroduction might offer hints as to what is
to come. Is a rCLdiplomacy, politics, trade, construction and warrCY style game of D&D (such as 1995rCOs Birthright) on its way? Time will tell.

For now, the new books look like guides, even the Monster Manual, which
has 500+ monsters, including 75 new ones.

The new PlayerrCOs Handbook comes out on September 17th , the Dungeon MasterrCOs Guide on November 11th, and the Monster Manual on Feb 18th,
2025, keeping another tradition of releasing the big book of bad guys
till much later. You can pre-order them now.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 11:23:45 +0200, Kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:

On 6/19/2024 11:22 AM, Kyonshi wrote:

Source:
https://www.starburstmagazine.com/next-edition-of-dungeons-dragons-changes-everything/

Next Edition of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS Changes Everything

[snip]

spoilers: it did not actually change all that much

mostly some new options and monsters from what I can see, a bit of >clarification on the how to play.

So much for the One DnD thing that included all other editions.

Everything I've read about the new books is that it's basically "AD&D
2nd Edition" for D&D 5th Edition.

Which mathematically makes it D&D 7th Edition, not 6th. ;-)

Which, you know, being the rare /fan/ of 2nd Edition AD&D (I can
calculate THAC0 in my head! ;-), sounds pretty cool to me. While not
without its flaws, 2nd Edition made a /much/ better read -and
introduction to the game- than the original books. Not quite up to the
standard of the Mentzer books, certainly, but a much needed
clarification and consolidation of the rules. It wouldn't be a
terrible thing of these new books follow suit.

Heck, I might even give it a try if they make it so armor class goes
down as it gets better. ;-)

I think the biggest thing working against the revision isn't the books themselves or even the WOTC developers/writers... but the marketing.
It's been alternately hyped up as "the next edition", "not the next
edition", "some sort of hybrid that works with all versions edition",
and Gygax knows what else. I suspect Hasbro has gummed up the works
trying to boost sales because all they know is "New Must Be Better!"
('cause it works with toys) without understanding why players might
not feel the same way.


--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 11:23:45 +0200, Kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:

On 6/19/2024 11:22 AM, Kyonshi wrote:

Source:
https://www.starburstmagazine.com/next-edition-of-dungeons-dragons-changes-everything/

Next Edition of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS Changes Everything

[snip]


spoilers: it did not actually change all that much

mostly some new options and monsters from what I can see, a bit of >>clarification on the how to play.

So much for the One DnD thing that included all other editions.

Everything I've read about the new books is that it's basically "AD&D
2nd Edition" for D&D 5th Edition.

That's a very apt description. I think DND right now is repeating the lackluster 2nd edition.

Which mathematically makes it D&D 7th Edition, not 6th. ;-)

Don't try to make sense out of DnD editions. If we were properly counting
it would be... I dunno, the 10th?

Which, you know, being the rare /fan/ of 2nd Edition AD&D (I can
calculate THAC0 in my head! ;-), sounds pretty cool to me. While not
without its flaws, 2nd Edition made a /much/ better read -and
introduction to the game- than the original books. Not quite up to the standard of the Mentzer books, certainly, but a much needed
clarification and consolidation of the rules. It wouldn't be a
terrible thing of these new books follow suit.

I think 2nd ed gets a bit of a cold shoulder from fans because it was,
yes, better written and much better structured, but also quite...
boring.
ADnD 1st was this madcap diatribe of Gygax trying to write the
ultimate statement of his way of roleplaying (and cut Arneson out
of the profits), while ADnD 2nd was tame. Generic. And definitely
one of the most lackluster of editions.
That doesn't mean it was bad. I started playing ADnD with 2nd ed.,
but it never had that shine 3rd, 1st or 0 had.

Heck, I might even give it a try if they make it so armor class goes
down as it gets better. ;-)

Yeah, I doubt that will ever come back. I don't know why people get so
hung up about that though, by this point I can convert between ascending
and descending armor in my head.

I think the biggest thing working against the revision isn't the books themselves or even the WOTC developers/writers... but the marketing.
It's been alternately hyped up as "the next edition", "not the next
edition", "some sort of hybrid that works with all versions edition",
and Gygax knows what else. I suspect Hasbro has gummed up the works
trying to boost sales because all they know is "New Must Be Better!"
('cause it works with toys) without understanding why players might
not feel the same way.

They are out of ideas because corporate took control. Previously the
positions in charge at WOTC had actual gamers at least somewhere
close to them. But DnD was still a thing of passion, even if heavily commercialized. But now that black sheep of the Hasbro family turns
out to be a golden goose, so corpo suits took over.
And they don't have a clue what they are doing, and as we noticed
the last few months, they are doing stuff that doesn't fit the
tabletop rpg hobby.
They want ALL THE MONEY and so they created the OGL debacle and
the whole idea of One DnD that was supposed to unify all kinds
of editions (how would that even work?!).
And this 6th edition is just that... the books are getting bigger
and fatter, and I will bet you they will be absolutely unusable on
the table. In fact this will be an unwieldy mess of a system.
48 classes? For what? Even more spells? Nobody will be able to learn
all of them.
What DnD needs is getting slimmer not more bloated. The bloat always
shows up on it's own. The whole point of 5e back in the days was
that the game was slimmed down in comparison to the mess that was
4e. But that's not what the suits and some of the more vocal fans
want. Or think they want. They are going for more complexity, and
that will alienate a lot of fans who already think 5e is too much
of an unwieldy mess to play straight.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 15:36:35 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 11:23:45 +0200, Kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:

On 6/19/2024 11:22 AM, Kyonshi wrote:

[...]

Everything I've read about the new books is that it's basically "AD&D
2nd Edition" for D&D 5th Edition.

Which mathematically makes it D&D 7th Edition, not 6th. ;-)

Early Dungeons & Dragons (DD) creators/designers/writers through 1990s
didn't do job of numbering editions like more professional language/
academic writers do. There were five standard DD editions before Advanced
DD (ADD) second edition (2nd ed., 2E, ADD2. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editions_of_Dungeons_&_Dragons ). If you
count those, not just ADD, not half/revised editions, any future 6E (if
not '5.5E') will (in literary history) be about 9E. Original 1E was 1974;
2E was 1977; 3E was 1981; 4E was 1983; 5E was 1991.

Which, you know, being the rare /fan/ of 2nd Edition AD&D (I can
calculate THAC0 in my head! ;-), sounds pretty cool to me. While not
without its flaws, 2nd Edition made a /much/ better read -and
introduction to the game- than the original books. Not quite up to the standard of the Mentzer books, certainly, but a much needed
clarification and consolidation of the rules. It wouldn't be a terrible
thing of these new books follow suit.

I like ADD2 (and all previous editions) many ways and dislike a few. I
liked everything through ADD2 was backwards-compatible with all previous
with minor adjustments (armour class (AC), etc.), like I read you can play
a standard DD elf as ADD class similar (not same) to ADD fighter/magician
elf, but you get experience (XP)/levels (so hit points (HP) and spells) different rates, so progress slightly quicker for levels but the other
does slower yet also has some advantages (I forgot details).

What I disliked about ADD2 is it's when rules removals started which were exacerbated in DD so-called '3E' (6E in more accuracy/history). ADD2
removed monks (and other things) and a large amount of well-written ADD1 Dungeon Masters' Guide (DMG) such as dungeon generation and just tons of
neat stuff... I'd still use an ADD2 DMG, which is somewhat good but also somewhat simplistic/small/watered-down, so I'd use comprehensive/
marvellous ADD1 DMG simultaneously. I don't know that removal of classes
was worth adding skills on top of ADD1 professions (most people don't
become experts in more than one thing). Nevertheless, game groups I was
in, or ran, mostly used Basic & Expert & Companion & Master & (almost) Immortals (BECMI) or (combined) ADD1&2.

DD so-called '3E' (6E) took removals to ludicrous level by removing most skills, and eventually adding idiotic videogame-derived things like
'feats', and lost backwards-compatibility of all previous editions from 1E through ADD2. That's part why I will never play DD so-called '3E' (6E).

I heard so-called 5E (8E) put some sense back in, yet retained videogame- derived things like feats. In comparison/contrast to chess, DD so-called
'3E' (6E) & '4E' (7E) & '5E' (8E) are like chess variants with different rules/pieces/boards, but not standard chess. Original DD through ADD2
already had 99% good rules. Only thing I heard DD so-called '3E' (6E) had that was neat is splitting ability scores into two sub-scores that make
sense, which is fun but nonessential. Standard DD could be perfect adding races as well as classes, and ADD2 could be perfect by omitting removals,
and using DD4&5 (BECMI, Rules Cyclopedia) weapon skills, and using ability sub-scores (I read some older game designers had been working on
alternative ADD2 & maybe 'ADD3'). Since ADD2 (though ADD2.5 was good) we really haven't needed new editions/variants--little benefit.

Maybe I saw more of interest in 'retroactive clones' (retro-clones) than everything from DD so-called '3E' (6E) to now. New editions after ADD1
(due to businessmen/corporatist/suit takeover of TSR) were largely about profit, though despite that, I have fond memories of playing ADD2 in
1990s. People who prefer Dave Arneson (first DD creator/father/writer
before Gary Gygax) might say same about ADD1 (businessman takeover meant
to disenfranchise Dave Arneson) and have a point, but there's much good
stuff ADD added most roleplaying games (RPGs) couldn't do without.

Heck, I might even give it a try if they make it so armor class goes
down as it gets better. ;-)

Yes: THAC0 is more fun.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2