• A question of clearance

    From Snag@Snag_one@msn.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Jul 22 09:34:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    The last piece for my milling machine repair arrived yesterday ... in
    a ridiculously large box . So this afternoon I'll be doing some
    machining . I'm wondering how much clearance I need for the sleeve
    retaining Loctite . I know it can't be a press fit or the glues will all
    be squeezed out . Is .003" too much ? Not enough ? I've never used this
    stuff before and I only want to do it once . I will be leaving a
    shoulder on one end and a fine thread for a nut on the other end . The shoulder end will also be threaded for a backlash adjustment device
    using 2 screws and a couple of stout springs since Bob expressed his
    doubt that the original device might not work well .
    --
    Snag
    I appreciated foreign cultures more
    when they stayed foreign ...
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  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Jul 22 11:26:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Snag" wrote in message news:113qkdi$2ppb8$1@dont-email.me...

    The last piece for my milling machine repair arrived yesterday ... in
    a ridiculously large box . So this afternoon I'll be doing some
    machining . I'm wondering how much clearance I need for the sleeve
    retaining Loctite . I know it can't be a press fit or the glues will all
    be squeezed out . Is .003" too much ? Not enough ? I've never used this
    stuff before and I only want to do it once . I will be leaving a
    shoulder on one end and a fine thread for a nut on the other end . The
    shoulder end will also be threaded for a backlash adjustment device
    using 2 screws and a couple of stout springs since Bob expressed his
    doubt that the original device might not work well .
    --
    Snag
    ------------------------
    Loctite literature mentions an allowable gap of 0.25mm (0.010"), beyond
    which the metal ions that activate setting up may not diffuse far or fast enough.

    https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/chartsguides/l/loctite_do_it_right_guide_v_7.pdf

    "Loctite-< Press Fit Repair 660rao is NOT recommended for radial
    gaps exceeding .010".
    Higher strengths are obtained by NOT using Loctite-<
    Klean rCyN Primerao with small (.002" to .004") gap, and allowing
    longer cure (4 to 24 hours)."

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  • From David Billington@djb@invalid.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Jul 22 17:03:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 22/07/2026 15:34, Snag wrote:
    The last piece for my milling machine repair arrived yesterday ... in
    a ridiculously large box . So this afternoon I'll be doing some
    machining . I'm wondering how much clearance I need for the sleeve
    retaining Loctite . I know it can't be a press fit or the glues will
    all be squeezed out . Is .003" too much ? Not enough ? I've never used
    this stuff before and I only want to do it once . I will be leaving a shoulder on one end and a fine thread for a nut on the other end . The shoulder end will also be threaded for a backlash adjustment device
    using 2 screws and a couple of stout springs since Bob expressed his
    doubt that the original device might not work well .

    Best to follow the clearance guidance given by the maker for the variant you've chosen as it can vary quite a bit depending on the formulation.
    Also material and temperature have an effect, IIRC copper ions are what causes/aids the curing in many cases and I found out putting a brass
    sleeve in an aluminium body on a warm day with a fine clearance it
    started to set almost immediately and I had to lean on the arbor press
    PDQ to get the sleeve fully in place.

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  • From Snag@Snag_one@msn.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Jul 22 12:10:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 7/22/2026 11:03 AM, David Billington wrote:
    On 22/07/2026 15:34, Snag wrote:
    The last piece for my milling machine repair arrived yesterday ... in
    a ridiculously large box . So this afternoon I'll be doing some
    machining . I'm wondering how much clearance I need for the sleeve
    retaining Loctite . I know it can't be a press fit or the glues will
    all be squeezed out . Is .003" too much ? Not enough ? I've never used
    this stuff before and I only want to do it once . I will be leaving a
    shoulder on one end and a fine thread for a nut on the other end . The
    shoulder end will also be threaded for a backlash adjustment device
    using 2 screws and a couple of stout springs since Bob expressed his
    doubt that the original device might not work well .

    Best to follow the clearance guidance given by the maker for the variant you've chosen as it can vary quite a bit depending on the formulation.
    Also material and temperature have an effect, IIRC copper ions are what causes/aids the curing in many cases and I found out putting a brass
    sleeve in an aluminium body on a warm day with a fine clearance it
    started to set almost immediately and I had to lean on the arbor press
    PDQ to get the sleeve fully in place.


    I shoulda opened the package and read the back of the blister pack
    ... max gap is .004 and I think I'll set the parts in front of the AC
    for a little while before I assemble it . This is a bronze sleeve in
    brass so I expect it will set up pretty quickly .
    --
    Snag
    I appreciated foreign cultures more
    when they stayed foreign ...
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Jul 22 13:55:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 7/22/2026 7:34 AM, Snag wrote:
    -a The last piece for my milling machine repair arrived yesterday ... in
    a ridiculously large box . So this afternoon I'll be doing some
    machining . I'm wondering how much clearance I need for the sleeve
    retaining Loctite . I know it can't be a press fit or the glues will all
    be squeezed out . Is .003" too much ? Not enough ? I've never used this stuff before and I only want to do it once . I will be leaving a
    shoulder on one end and a fine thread for a nut on the other end . The shoulder end will also be threaded for a backlash adjustment device
    using 2 screws and a couple of stout springs since Bob expressed his
    doubt that the original device might not work well .

    My concern was that the loctite bond might break under flexing. I don't
    know that it will, but Google's AI seemed to think the stuff had nearly
    zero flex. I didn't cross examine the AI to make sure it wasn't
    providing partial or incorrect data as it often does though.

    Read the bottle for the stuff you have or look it up on line. Loctite
    has different specs and formulas for different applications.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Billington@djb@invalid.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Jul 22 22:47:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 22/07/2026 21:55, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 7/22/2026 7:34 AM, Snag wrote:
    -a-a The last piece for my milling machine repair arrived yesterday ...
    in a ridiculously large box . So this afternoon I'll be doing some
    machining . I'm wondering how much clearance I need for the sleeve
    retaining Loctite . I know it can't be a press fit or the glues will
    all be squeezed out . Is .003" too much ? Not enough ? I've never
    used this stuff before and I only want to do it once . I will be
    leaving a shoulder on one end and a fine thread for a nut on the
    other end . The shoulder end will also be threaded for a backlash
    adjustment device using 2 screws and a couple of stout springs since
    Bob expressed his doubt that the original device might not work well .

    My concern was that the loctite bond might break under flexing.-a I
    don't know that it will, but Google's AI seemed to think the stuff had nearly zero flex.-a I didn't cross examine the AI to make sure it
    wasn't providing partial or incorrect data as it often does though.

    Read the bottle for the stuff you have or look it up on line. Loctite
    has different specs and formulas for different applications.


    Years ago an old car racer I knew mentioned they had heard of the
    wonderful new stuff Loctite and tried it to make a lighter hub design
    and it worked until the hub fell off so they tried an improved variant
    and same result. Looking at the specs the problem wasn't the strength
    but the cyclical fatigue properties which were poor and that was why it
    was failing as that was exactly what it was subject to in a suspension
    hub, they went back to the old design, heavier but reliable. May not be applicable in this case and over 50 years has gone by in the product development.

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  • From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Jul 22 15:52:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 7/22/2026 2:47 PM, David Billington wrote:
    On 22/07/2026 21:55, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 7/22/2026 7:34 AM, Snag wrote:
    -a-a The last piece for my milling machine repair arrived yesterday ... >>> in a ridiculously large box . So this afternoon I'll be doing some
    machining . I'm wondering how much clearance I need for the sleeve
    retaining Loctite . I know it can't be a press fit or the glues will
    all be squeezed out . Is .003" too much ? Not enough ? I've never
    used this stuff before and I only want to do it once . I will be
    leaving a shoulder on one end and a fine thread for a nut on the
    other end . The shoulder end will also be threaded for a backlash
    adjustment device using 2 screws and a couple of stout springs since
    Bob expressed his doubt that the original device might not work well .

    My concern was that the loctite bond might break under flexing.-a I
    don't know that it will, but Google's AI seemed to think the stuff had
    nearly zero flex.-a I didn't cross examine the AI to make sure it
    wasn't providing partial or incorrect data as it often does though.

    Read the bottle for the stuff you have or look it up on line. Loctite
    has different specs and formulas for different applications.


    Years ago an old car racer I knew mentioned they had heard of the
    wonderful new stuff Loctite and tried it to make a lighter hub design
    and it worked until the hub fell off so they tried an improved variant
    and same result. Looking at the specs the problem wasn't the strength
    but the cyclical fatigue properties which were poor and that was why it
    was failing as that was exactly what it was subject to in a suspension
    hub, they went back to the old design, heavier but reliable. May not be applicable in this case and over 50 years has gone by in the product development.


    Yep. Lots of new stuff all the time.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Snag@Snag_one@msn.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Jul 22 22:54:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 7/22/2026 3:55 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 7/22/2026 7:34 AM, Snag wrote:
    -a-a The last piece for my milling machine repair arrived yesterday ...
    in a ridiculously large box . So this afternoon I'll be doing some
    machining . I'm wondering how much clearance I need for the sleeve
    retaining Loctite . I know it can't be a press fit or the glues will
    all be squeezed out . Is .003" too much ? Not enough ? I've never used
    this stuff before and I only want to do it once . I will be leaving a
    shoulder on one end and a fine thread for a nut on the other end . The
    shoulder end will also be threaded for a backlash adjustment device
    using 2 screws and a couple of stout springs since Bob expressed his
    doubt that the original device might not work well .

    My concern was that the loctite bond might break under flexing.-a I don't know that it will, but Google's AI seemed to think the stuff had nearly
    zero flex.-a I didn't cross examine the AI to make sure it wasn't
    providing partial or incorrect data as it often does though.

    Read the bottle for the stuff you have or look it up on line.-a Loctite
    has different specs and formulas for different applications.



    This is 640 , max gap is .004" - I'll be cooling the parts before
    assembly to maybe prevent it setting up too soon . I'm putting a spring
    loaded "nut" on the end opposite from the original backlash adjuster and filling the old slot with JB weld . I plan on mechanical retention too , shoulder on one end and a nut on the other .
    --
    Snag
    I appreciated foreign cultures more
    when they stayed foreign ...
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Thu Jul 23 12:58:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 7/22/2026 8:54 PM, Snag wrote:
    On 7/22/2026 3:55 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 7/22/2026 7:34 AM, Snag wrote:
    -a-a The last piece for my milling machine repair arrived yesterday ... >>> in a ridiculously large box . So this afternoon I'll be doing some
    machining . I'm wondering how much clearance I need for the sleeve
    retaining Loctite . I know it can't be a press fit or the glues will
    all be squeezed out . Is .003" too much ? Not enough ? I've never
    used this stuff before and I only want to do it once . I will be
    leaving a shoulder on one end and a fine thread for a nut on the
    other end . The shoulder end will also be threaded for a backlash
    adjustment device using 2 screws and a couple of stout springs since
    Bob expressed his doubt that the original device might not work well .

    My concern was that the loctite bond might break under flexing.-a I
    don't know that it will, but Google's AI seemed to think the stuff had
    nearly zero flex.-a I didn't cross examine the AI to make sure it
    wasn't providing partial or incorrect data as it often does though.

    Read the bottle for the stuff you have or look it up on line.-a Loctite
    has different specs and formulas for different applications.



    -aThis is 640 , max gap is .004" - I'll be cooling the parts before assembly to maybe prevent it setting up too soon . I'm putting a spring loaded "nut" on the end opposite from the original backlash adjuster and filling the old slot with JB weld . I plan on mechanical retention too , shoulder on one end and a nut on the other .

    Just remember that heavy cutting can overpower a spring anti backlash mechanism. That is its disadvantage. Its huge advantage of course is
    that if designed with some modicum of marginal competence it maintains anti-backlash characteristics through the full range of a worn lead screw.

    A hard mechanical anti backlash has the advantage of not being able to
    be nondestructively over powered. Unfortunately it has the issue that
    after some wear occurs on the lead screw in more used areas it can only
    be adjusted for one part of the screw. Either it limits range or it is
    loose in the most used portion of the lead screw.

    The choice is a compromise. You choose what is best for you, and there
    is no objective absolute best.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Thu Jul 23 18:06:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:113trpd$4our$1@dont-email.me...

    A hard mechanical anti backlash has the advantage of not being able to
    be nondestructively over powered. Unfortunately it has the issue that
    after some wear occurs on the lead screw in more used areas it can only
    be adjusted for one part of the screw. Either it limits range or it is
    loose in the most used portion of the lead screw.
    ------------------------
    I install the mill vise in a different position after removing it to spread the wear. It's currently at the right end.

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  • From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Thu Jul 23 16:46:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 7/23/2026 3:06 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:113trpd$4our$1@dont-email.me...

    A hard mechanical anti backlash has the advantage of not being able to
    be nondestructively over powered.-a Unfortunately it has the issue that
    after some wear occurs on the lead screw in more used areas it can only
    be adjusted for one part of the screw.-a Either it limits range or it is loose in the most used portion of the lead screw.
    ------------------------
    I install the mill vise in a different position after removing it to
    spread the wear. It's currently at the right end.


    That is a suggested trade practice.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Snag@Snag_one@msn.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Thu Jul 23 21:29:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 7/23/2026 6:46 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 7/23/2026 3:06 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:113trpd$4our$1@dont-email.me...

    A hard mechanical anti backlash has the advantage of not being able to
    be nondestructively over powered.-a Unfortunately it has the issue that
    after some wear occurs on the lead screw in more used areas it can only
    be adjusted for one part of the screw.-a Either it limits range or it is
    loose in the most used portion of the lead screw.
    ------------------------
    I install the mill vise in a different position after removing it to
    spread the wear. It's currently at the right end.


    That is a suggested trade practice.


    And one that I will be implementing in the future .
    --
    Snag
    I appreciated foreign cultures more
    when they stayed foreign ...
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2