From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Hello all

Is this drilling I was thinking of doing easy to do?

I need to water-cool a plate of ali. 5083 (Al-Mg) used to make
all-weld-metal samples.
Keep the interpass temperature low enough.

I visualise drilling a hole along the 200mm (8inch) length of the
plate.
Hole being 8mm or 10mm (3/8inch) diameter.

Passing along the mid-plane of the 20mm (3/4inch) thickness
ali. plate.

Contamination, within all reason, would not be a problem here where
drilled - it isn't that near to or connected to the welds being
deposited. I imagine a large water storage and a pump moving cooling
water through that drilled hole, with return back to the tank.

Please advise if there is a between scheme for cooling.

Best wishes, Rich Smith
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 7/16/2026 9:38 AM, Richard Smith wrote:

Hello all

Is this drilling I was thinking of doing easy to do?

I need to water-cool a plate of ali. 5083 (Al-Mg) used to make
all-weld-metal samples.
Keep the interpass temperature low enough.

I visualise drilling a hole along the 200mm (8inch) length of the
plate.
Hole being 8mm or 10mm (3/8inch) diameter.

Passing along the mid-plane of the 20mm (3/4inch) thickness
ali. plate.

Contamination, within all reason, would not be a problem here where
drilled - it isn't that near to or connected to the welds being
deposited. I imagine a large water storage and a pump moving cooling
water through that drilled hole, with return back to the tank.

Please advise if there is a between scheme for cooling.

Best wishes, Rich Smith

Clamp a piece of wood to the face of your block to help align the
drill to keep your hole centered . Once you're in a couple of inches you
can probably remove the guide board .
--
Snag
I appreciated foreign cultures more
when they stayed foreign ...
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1tspz80eo.fsf@Admins-Air.Home...

Hello all

Is this drilling I was thinking of doing easy to do?

I need to water-cool a plate of ali. 5083 (Al-Mg) used to make
all-weld-metal samples.
Keep the interpass temperature low enough.

I visualise drilling a hole along the 200mm (8inch) length of the
plate.
Hole being 8mm or 10mm (3/8inch) diameter.

Passing along the mid-plane of the 20mm (3/4inch) thickness
ali. plate.

Contamination, within all reason, would not be a problem here where
drilled - it isn't that near to or connected to the welds being
deposited. I imagine a large water storage and a pump moving cooling
water through that drilled hole, with return back to the tank.

Please advise if there is a between scheme for cooling.

Best wishes, Rich Smith

-----------------------------------

How easy depends on the available machine tools and drill bit types. This
one approaches sending the job to a shop, with extra blanks just in case and
a definition of how far off center on the far end you can accept, plus the hose attachments. The two main issues are chip removal to prevent the bit
from jamming and breaking, and keeping the hole straight enough. You could practice on scrap. 10mm diameter by 200mm deep shouldn't be unreasonably difficult.

Frequent chip removal requires a long stroke of the drill chuck or work holder. Unless you find a drill press with enough spindle travel the
simplest way to get it may be to attach the plate to a lathe carriage. Some model engineering lathes are convenient for mounting work to be bored on the carriage, the giveaway is tee slots.

If deflection becomes a problem I might try a drill bit with short flutes
and a long solid shank, such as an "aircraft" drill. They are stiffer than bits with long flutes. Start the hole with a short and stiff "screw machine" or "spotting" bit. The next longer sizes are "jobbers" and "taper". A "split point" drill needs less pressure to cut in the center.

I use this Portalign for fairly accurate and straight drilling at center-punched scribe marks on structural steel too big for my machine
tools.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/257544808846?

Longer rods can be substituted. When the rods are clamped to opposing faces
of a plate the drill bit will be centered on the edge and drill straight in, which is handy for installing door latches. My father remodeled large houses into apartments in his free time and I did the fussier jobs on doors. He was
a government administrator and needed an outlet where problems could be
solved with a hammer.

Upper and lower buckets with an automatic sump pump in the lower one would give you flow rate control independent of the pump, which might be borrowed and has other uses. I find a fair amount of use for a galvy bucket with a
hose spigot soldered in the bottom center like a high capacity funnel, for instance to hang under plumbing repair work. With a lathe a brass or plastic fitting can be modified to attach through the bottom. My roof runoff rain collectors are trash barrels with shop made garden hose outlets.

Good luck, you may need it.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 7/16/2026 7:38 AM, Richard Smith wrote:

Hello all

Is this drilling I was thinking of doing easy to do?

I need to water-cool a plate of ali. 5083 (Al-Mg) used to make
all-weld-metal samples.
Keep the interpass temperature low enough.

I visualise drilling a hole along the 200mm (8inch) length of the
plate.
Hole being 8mm or 10mm (3/8inch) diameter.

Passing along the mid-plane of the 20mm (3/4inch) thickness
ali. plate.

Contamination, within all reason, would not be a problem here where
drilled - it isn't that near to or connected to the welds being
deposited. I imagine a large water storage and a pump moving cooling
water through that drilled hole, with return back to the tank.

Please advise if there is a between scheme for cooling.

Best wishes, Rich Smith

Instead of drilling it could you make a cooling plate and clamp it to
it? Aluminum transfers heat really well.

In bait making guys make cooling plates to clamp to molds by drilling
holes that deep/long, but I think it might be easier to take two plates,
mill grooves, and then bolt them together with some gasket sealer. Then
you just tap the ends of the grooves for your hose connectors.

The advantage to using a cooling plate instead of integrated cooling
passages is you can use it again and again for other applications, and
you only have to make it once.

For higher production rate molds they do gun drill cooling passages
directly into the mold, but its also a thicker molder with a higher base
cost.

I've had decent luck deep drilling (not 8 inches) aluminum with
specialty 3 flute drills. You can also use your lathe as a horizontal
boring machine by removing the tool post and installing an angle plate
to clamp your work piece two, and then mount the drill in the spindle.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 7/16/2026 12:11 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 7/16/2026 7:38 AM, Richard Smith wrote:

Hello all

Is this drilling I was thinking of doing easy to do?

I need to water-cool a plate of ali. 5083 (Al-Mg) used to make
all-weld-metal samples.
Keep the interpass temperature low enough.

I visualise drilling a hole along the 200mm (8inch) length of the
plate.
Hole being 8mm or 10mm (3/8inch) diameter.

Passing along the mid-plane of the 20mm (3/4inch) thickness
ali. plate.

Contamination, within all reason, would not be a problem here where
drilled - it isn't that near to or connected to the welds being
deposited.-a I imagine a large water storage and a pump moving cooling
water through that drilled hole, with return back to the tank.

Please advise if there is a between scheme for cooling.

Best wishes, Rich Smith

Multiple different thoughts jumble together:

Thought 1:> Instead of drilling it could you make a cooling plate and
clamp it to

it?-a Aluminum transfers heat really well.

Thought 2:

In bait making guys make cooling plates to clamp to molds by drilling
holes that deep/long, but I think it might be easier to take two plates, mill grooves, and then bolt them together with some gasket sealer.-a Then you just tap the ends of the grooves for your hose connectors.

The advantage to using a cooling plate instead of integrated cooling passages is you can use it again and again for other applications, and
you only have to make it once.

For higher production rate molds they do gun drill cooling passages
directly into the mold, but its also a thicker molder with a higher base cost.

Thought 3:

I've had decent luck deep drilling (not 8 inches) aluminum with
specialty 3 flute drills.

Thought 4:

You can also use your lathe as a horizontal
boring machine by removing the tool post and installing an angle plate
to clamp your work piece two, and then mount the drill in the spindle.

Thought 5: EXTRA CREDIT
This can be handy for deep drilling, but you have to start the hole with
a stub drill so you are not drilling at an angle from sag when you use
your long gun drill.






--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:113b80a$26irc$1@dont-email.me...

If deflection becomes a problem I might try a drill bit with short flutes and a long solid shank, such as an "aircraft" drill. They are stiffer than bits with long flutes.

For example: https://www.drill-service.co.uk/products/drills/aircraft-extension-drill/

They are intended to reach through narrow spaces like the further flange of
a tall wing rib from the inside, where a chuck wouldn't fit, not drill
through thick material, but they do work as long as you clear the chips
before they jam. I've used them to drill 3/8" holes in 4" steel channels through both flanges while barely clearing the web.

I can't offer many alternatives without knowing which machine tools you have access to. Bob's 2 piece solution is good if you have a milling machine to flatten the mating surfaces and mill the grooves. In double sided circuit board design the practice for dense packing is to put horizontal runs on one side and vertical ones on the other, connected at holes called Vias. In this case the H and V grooves could simply overlap at the ends, though mirror
image pre-drilled hole patterns the grooves should end in would be a good sanity check. A little internal leakage wouldn't matter as long as the
plates are sealed together around the edges.

A vertical mill is usually preferred to a horizontal one for versatility on complex shapes and for drilling, while a horizontal mill cuts simpler geometries faster for production. They largely can both do the same jobs
with differing degrees of difficulty and speed.

Today's small triumph was lathe boring the cap of a bottle of HF air compressor oil to accept a gear lube pump whose cap is sized for smaller outboard / stern drive oil bottle threads. The Attwood pump snaps together
and can be pried apart at the bottle cap.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> writes:

On 7/16/2026 9:38 AM, Richard Smith wrote:

Hello all
Is this drilling I was thinking of doing easy to do?
I need to water-cool a plate of ali. 5083 (Al-Mg) used to make
all-weld-metal samples.
Keep the interpass temperature low enough.
I visualise drilling a hole along the 200mm (8inch) length of the
plate.
Hole being 8mm or 10mm (3/8inch) diameter.
Passing along the mid-plane of the 20mm (3/4inch) thickness
ali. plate.
Contamination, within all reason, would not be a problem here where
drilled - it isn't that near to or connected to the welds being
deposited. I imagine a large water storage and a pump moving cooling
water through that drilled hole, with return back to the tank.
Please advise if there is a between scheme for cooling.
Best wishes, Rich Smith

Clamp a piece of wood to the face of your block to help align the
drill to keep your hole centered . Once you're in a couple of inches
you can probably remove the guide board .

Big thanks for that hint - Rich S.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1tspz80eo.fsf@Admins-Air.Home...

Hello all

Is this drilling I was thinking of doing easy to do?

I need to water-cool a plate of ali. 5083 (Al-Mg) used to make
all-weld-metal samples.
Keep the interpass temperature low enough.

I visualise drilling a hole along the 200mm (8inch) length of the
plate.
Hole being 8mm or 10mm (3/8inch) diameter.

Passing along the mid-plane of the 20mm (3/4inch) thickness
ali. plate.

Contamination, within all reason, would not be a problem here where
drilled - it isn't that near to or connected to the welds being
deposited. I imagine a large water storage and a pump moving cooling
water through that drilled hole, with return back to the tank.

Please advise if there is a between scheme for cooling.

Best wishes, Rich Smith

-----------------------------------

How easy depends on the available machine tools and drill bit
types. This one approaches sending the job to a shop, with extra
blanks just in case and a definition of how far off center on the far
end you can accept, plus the hose attachments. The two main issues are
chip removal to prevent the bit from jamming and breaking, and keeping
the hole straight enough. You could practice on scrap. 10mm diameter
by 200mm deep shouldn't be unreasonably difficult.

Frequent chip removal requires a long stroke of the drill chuck or
work holder. Unless you find a drill press with enough spindle travel
the simplest way to get it may be to attach the plate to a lathe
carriage. Some model engineering lathes are convenient for mounting
work to be bored on the carriage, the giveaway is tee slots.

If deflection becomes a problem I might try a drill bit with short
flutes and a long solid shank, such as an "aircraft" drill. They are
stiffer than bits with long flutes. Start the hole with a short and
stiff "screw machine" or "spotting" bit. The next longer sizes are
"jobbers" and "taper". A "split point" drill needs less pressure to
cut in the center.

I use this Portalign for fairly accurate and straight drilling at center-punched scribe marks on structural steel too big for my machine
tools.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/257544808846?

Longer rods can be substituted. When the rods are clamped to opposing
faces of a plate the drill bit will be centered on the edge and drill straight in, which is handy for installing door latches. My father
remodeled large houses into apartments in his free time and I did the
fussier jobs on doors. He was a government administrator and needed an
outlet where problems could be solved with a hammer.

Upper and lower buckets with an automatic sump pump in the lower one
would give you flow rate control independent of the pump, which might
be borrowed and has other uses. I find a fair amount of use for a
galvy bucket with a hose spigot soldered in the bottom center like a
high capacity funnel, for instance to hang under plumbing repair
work. With a lathe a brass or plastic fitting can be modified to
attach through the bottom. My roof runoff rain collectors are trash
barrels with shop made garden hose outlets.

Good luck, you may need it.

Thanks - very considered comments and advice. - Rich S.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:

On 7/16/2026 7:38 AM, Richard Smith wrote:

Hello all
Is this drilling I was thinking of doing easy to do?
I need to water-cool a plate of ali. 5083 (Al-Mg) used to make
all-weld-metal samples.
Keep the interpass temperature low enough.
I visualise drilling a hole along the 200mm (8inch) length of the
plate.
Hole being 8mm or 10mm (3/8inch) diameter.
Passing along the mid-plane of the 20mm (3/4inch) thickness
ali. plate.
Contamination, within all reason, would not be a problem here where
drilled - it isn't that near to or connected to the welds being
deposited. I imagine a large water storage and a pump moving cooling
water through that drilled hole, with return back to the tank.
Please advise if there is a between scheme for cooling.
Best wishes, Rich Smith

Instead of drilling it could you make a cooling plate and clamp it to
it? Aluminum transfers heat really well.

In bait making guys make cooling plates to clamp to molds by drilling
holes that deep/long, but I think it might be easier to take two
plates, mill grooves, and then bolt them together with some gasket
sealer. Then you just tap the ends of the grooves for your hose
connectors.

The advantage to using a cooling plate instead of integrated cooling
passages is you can use it again and again for other applications, and
you only have to make it once.

For higher production rate molds they do gun drill cooling passages
directly into the mold, but its also a thicker molder with a higher
base cost.

I've had decent luck deep drilling (not 8 inches) aluminum with
specialty 3 flute drills. You can also use your lathe as a horizontal
boring machine by removing the tool post and installing an angle plate
to clamp your work piece two, and then mount the drill in the spindle.

I appreciate your wise and experienced comment.
I did ponder on clamp-plates with milled-in water-cooling passages -
which clamped on can be used repeatedly.
Thanks - Rich S.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1a4rp4rdo.fsf@Admins-Air.Home...

Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> writes:

Clamp a piece of wood to the face of your block to help align the
drill to keep your hole centered . Once you're in a couple of inches
you can probably remove the guide board .

Big thanks for that hint - Rich S.

---------------------------------

Clamped-on scrap wood guide blocks have been very helpful for me when sawing and drilling with portable or hand tools for timber framed sheds in the
woods. A step between two levels of clamped-on boards is enough to guide a portable drill's bit quite square and straight, though I haven't drilled a hole as long and demanding as yours. The portable drill solves the chip removal problem and twists instead of breaking a jammed bit.

Blocks clamped above and below a horizontal beam temporarily rigged into position against a (log) column can guide a hand saw blade closely enough to make the beam a tap-in fit in the column, even if the beam is bowed. The saw kerf will be within the beam notch.

Setting up a horizontal bandsaw and conveyer track table accurately on
uneven ground to square and notch the ends of a long heavy oak beam was so troublesome that I tried a bow pruning saw guided between wood blocks. The thin blade cut quickly and the result looks like the work of a table saw.
I'm not a purist, I use power tools when practical but I'm learning accuracy the old way for joinery on heavy beams back in the woods.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m11pd14r4x.fsf@Admins-Air.Home...

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:

Instead of drilling it could you make a cooling plate and clamp it to
it? Aluminum transfers heat really well.

I appreciate your wise and experienced comment.
I did ponder on clamp-plates with milled-in water-cooling passages -
which clamped on can be used repeatedly.
Thanks - Rich S.

A simple version that might be good enough is two plates separated by a
large O ring, perhaps for a car wheel hub. The only machining is sawing the plates and drilling and tapping for the clamping screw circle and hose fittings.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:113dq54$305n4$1@dont-email.me...
"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m11pd14r4x.fsf@Admins-Air.Home...

For building powered machinery a lathe and milling machine are nearly essential, without them you are limited to what you can buy in the right
size, often quite expensively. One vee belt pulley, tapered hub, shaft and bearings for my sawmill cost me $100 around 2008, as expensive as the new
6.5 HP gasoline engine. An alloy pulley from the hardware store didn't hold
up to the engine power. My experience is that inexpensive surplus and second-hand machine components are available because someone else couldn't
use them without modifications they couldn't make.

A horizontal bandsaw and drill press may be enough for static projects like this, and weldments. I use my mill mostly as a more accurate drill press.
The 4" x 6" bandsaw has been adequate for me, but I'd suggest a larger one
if you can spare the cost and space.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 7/17/2026 11:43 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

For building powered machinery a lathe and milling machine are nearly essential, without them you are limited to what you can buy in the right size, often quite expensively.

I seem to recall Richard saying he was getting or considering getting a
small lathe for his workshop. That's why I mentioned the possibility of
using a lathe as a horizontal boring machine. It is a concept I
garnered from this very group many years ago.

FYI: I have one customer of mine who bought some pieces of aluminum
flat bar from me precut to size who made his own chill plates by
drilling the passages with a hand held drill motor. He said it was a difficult process and he would never do it again, but like many things
it has the advantage that once you make it you already have it next time...
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:113dt3m$314km$1@dont-email.me...

The 4" x 6" bandsaw has been adequate for me, but I'd suggest a larger one if you can spare the cost and space.

This is the UK version: https://www.sealey.co.uk/metal-cutting-bandsaw-3-speed-150mm-375w230v-sm5/
"No reviews"

I extended mine to 200mm (8") width with a new fixed position fence. When using it chips don't fall clear of the guide rollers. The fence is angle
iron positioned to be the guide for quickly installing the standard fence square to the blade, because I milled the rear of its bottom flange parallel to the face.

The saw can trim the flame-cut or chain-sawed end of stock 150mm square by supporting it opposite the falling arm. Long stock balanced on the table
shows how high to set the outboard support. It needs the coarsest blade to
cut wood without clogging, then it's a good substitute for a radial arm saw and to some extent a vertical woodworking bandsaw.

There are several ways to tame their insubordinate tendencies, some here. https://gadgetbuilder.com/BandSaw.html

When it won't cut square vertically I move it around on the driveway until pavement irregularities neutralize the twist in the frame and the blade descent closely matches a square standing upright.

If you are good at diagnosing and solving problems these saws may be for
sale by frustrated owners quite cheap, mine cost $125.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 7/17/2026 3:22 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I extended mine to 200mm (8") width with a new fixed position fence.

I did much the same thing. Then I made a swing fence to replace the
original fence in the original position that I can loosen or remove with simple sliding handle shoulder bolts from the bottom for those times
when I need the space or when I need the angle fence.. 99.9% of the
time both fences are on the machine.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 7/17/2026 3:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 7/17/2026 3:22 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I extended mine to 200mm (8") width with a new fixed position fence.

I did much the same thing.-a Then I made a swing fence to replace the original fence in the original position that I can loosen or remove with simple sliding handle shoulder bolts from the bottom for those times
when I need the space or when I need the angle fence..-a 99.9% of the
time both fences are on the machine.

On my bigger horizontal bandsaw I drilled and tapped some holes for
1/2-13 so I can use standard mill hardware and strap clamps to hold
stock for cutting that the integrated vise can't manage.

You know I never thought I would use that kind of work holding, but
there are times when its the only way to do the job.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:113eatr$35gnl$1@dont-email.me...

On 7/17/2026 3:22 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I extended mine to 200mm (8") width with a new fixed position fence.

I did much the same thing. Then I made a swing fence to replace the
original fence in the original position that I can loosen or remove with
simple sliding handle shoulder bolts from the bottom for those times
when I need the space or when I need the angle fence.. 99.9% of the
time both fences are on the machine.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
------------------------------

That's a good idea. The OEM fence mount was difficult to set precisely, and the hardware provided was junk.

A useful mod I made to mine was to add holes to move the fence very close to the blade, to clamp a short piece rather than holding and cutting it by hand in the vertical position. The fence has to be back in the original position
to swivel.

The little wheels and bracket didn't survive being rolled outdoors for use, dropping when it passed over the door threshold. Now it rolls on replacement lawnmower wheels with the axle continuous through both legs.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:113ehl0$37aah$1@dont-email.me...

On my bigger horizontal bandsaw I drilled and tapped some holes for
1/2-13 so I can use standard mill hardware and strap clamps to hold
stock for cutting that the integrated vise can't manage.

You know I never thought I would use that kind of work holding, but
there are times when its the only way to do the job.
Bob La Londe

-----------------------------
I've certainly considered that, but always found a way to use F welding
clamps whose narrow heads fit through the slots.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking


"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> posted:

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:113eatr$35gnl$1@dont-email.me...

On 7/17/2026 3:22 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I extended mine to 200mm (8") width with a new fixed position fence.

I did much the same thing. Then I made a swing fence to replace the
original fence in the original position that I can loosen or remove with simple sliding handle shoulder bolts from the bottom for those times
when I need the space or when I need the angle fence.. 99.9% of the
time both fences are on the machine.

"The little wheels and bracket didn't survive being rolled outdoors for use, dropping when it passed over the door threshold."

I think that's a recurring theme with it's done that has a ninety day warranty with receipt. I've had to replace the wheels on both of my small welding carts.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:113ehl0$37aah$1@dont-email.me...

On my bigger horizontal bandsaw I drilled and tapped some holes for
1/2-13 so I can use standard mill hardware and strap clamps to hold
stock for cutting that the integrated vise can't manage.

You know I never thought I would use that kind of work holding, but
there are times when its the only way to do the job.
Bob La Londe

-------------------
We are lucky to have rolled bar stock to work with. The old guys machined
iron castings with no true external surface and sometimes a rough cored hole where they needed to locate a center. For a pipe elbow etc there never will
be a reference or flat clamping surface.

I use machined brass pipe in the chuck to locate and hold cast fittings centered by the threads.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:1784387258-16941@newsgrouper.org...
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> posted:

"The little wheels and bracket didn't survive being rolled outdoors for use, dropping when it passed over the door threshold."

I think that's a recurring theme with it's done that has a ninety day
warranty with receipt. I've had to replace the wheels on both of my small welding carts.
Bob La Londe

--------------------------
The hardware store wheels have low load capacity. For heavier stuff replacement wheels for trailer tongue jacks worked well for me. I've made welded steel wheels with water pipe hubs bored to accept welding rod needle bearings around a solid axle. The axle was bored for a grease fitting and passages because the things are really messy to regrease by partial disassembly.

Harbor freight furniture dollies may be cheaper than their casters bought separately.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 7/18/2026 8:47 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:1784387258-16941@newsgrouper.org... "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> posted:

"The little wheels and bracket didn't survive being rolled outdoors for
use,
dropping when it passed over the door threshold."

I think that's a recurring theme with it's done that has a ninety day warranty with receipt.-a I've had to replace the wheels on both of my
small welding carts.
Bob La Londe

--------------------------
The hardware store wheels have low load capacity. For heavier stuff replacement wheels for trailer tongue jacks worked well for me. I've
made welded steel wheels with water pipe hubs bored to accept welding
rod needle bearings around a solid axle. The axle was bored for a grease fitting and passages because the things are really messy to regrease by partial disassembly.

Harbor freight furniture dollies may be cheaper than their casters
bought separately.

I have stolen the casters off of a couple of mine for other projects.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:

On 7/17/2026 11:43 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

For building powered machinery a lathe and milling machine are
nearly essential, without them you are limited to what you can buy
in the right size, often quite expensively.

I seem to recall Richard saying he was getting or considering getting
a small lathe for his workshop. That's why I mentioned the
possibility of using a lathe as a horizontal boring machine. It is a
concept I garnered from this very group many years ago.

FYI: I have one customer of mine who bought some pieces of aluminum
flat bar from me precut to size who made his own chill plates by
drilling the passages with a hand held drill motor. He said it was a difficult process and he would never do it again, but like many things
it has the advantage that once you make it you already have it next
time...

You are right I considered it, but went with other priorities including learning a lot of building skills first to get the ourbuilding in order. Machine tools would have gone through a winter with everything very
damp.
Did alright with my mineral processing experiments during "the land of perpetual darkness" with a month January into February where someone
commented in the pub that they never went out for that month.

No machine tool yet - but thanks for the suggestion...

Best wishes all.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:113dt3m$314km$1@dont-email.me...

The 4" x 6" bandsaw has been adequate for me, but I'd suggest a
larger one if you can spare the cost and space.

This is the UK version: https://www.sealey.co.uk/metal-cutting-bandsaw-3-speed-150mm-375w230v-sm5/ "No reviews"

I extended mine to 200mm (8") width with a new fixed position
fence. When using it chips don't fall clear of the guide rollers. The
fence is angle iron positioned to be the guide for quickly installing
the standard fence square to the blade, because I milled the rear of
its bottom flange parallel to the face.

The saw can trim the flame-cut or chain-sawed end of stock 150mm
square by supporting it opposite the falling arm. Long stock balanced
on the table shows how high to set the outboard support. It needs the coarsest blade to cut wood without clogging, then it's a good
substitute for a radial arm saw and to some extent a vertical
woodworking bandsaw.

There are several ways to tame their insubordinate tendencies, some here. https://gadgetbuilder.com/BandSaw.html

When it won't cut square vertically I move it around on the driveway
until pavement irregularities neutralize the twist in the frame and
the blade descent closely matches a square standing upright.

If you are good at diagnosing and solving problems these saws may be
for sale by frustrated owners quite cheap, mine cost $125.

Would be useful for sawing-up weld samples. thanks
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Hello again and thanks for responses.
I found my original idea non-viable after doing some heat
calculations.
The change of design meant yes surface water-cooling channels in
"clamped-on blocks" with gaskets - suggested here and rightly so -
would be the way to go.
Changes the ali. I need to order.
Thanks for the input and suggestions.
Rich S
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1wluqxygi.fsf@Admins-Air.Home...

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

https://www.sealey.co.uk/metal-cutting-bandsaw-3-speed-150mm-375w230v-sm5/

Would be useful for sawing-up weld samples. thanks

------------------------

I use mine for rough and finish carpentry and even cutting firewood, with a 6/10 TPI blade, and EMT electrical conduit with a 24 or 32 TPI blade. It was perfect for cutting smooth and square ends in 6" landscaping timbers for a retaining wall. It cut all the steel for my sawmill, overhead gantry and tractor bucket loader.

Its hardest task was shortening a W10x30 steel beam for a house restoration, that took separate cuts from both sides. It had no trouble with the 4"
square x 1/4" supporting columns.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m11pcyzd57.fsf@Admins-Air.Home...

You are right I considered it, but went with other priorities including learning a lot of building skills first to get the ourbuilding in order.

You might find a lot of construction experience in this group, though
American house building practice evolved away from British due to our plentiful pine timber and weather extremes. Masonry or steel are standard
for commercial buildings but not houses. It's generally concrete block or brick above ground, poured concrete below, cut stone is rare. Interior wall covering is almost always sheetrock, which is plaster sandwiched between cardboard.

https://plan7architect.com/american-home-design-british-home-design/?
I haven't seen much of the stucco exterior that became common in postwar Germany, or their Rolladen window shutters. There's much variation here, including log cabins, round yurts and geodesic domes. At a crowded party in
a yurt I asked my dog to go sit in a corner, and she walked all around it looking for one.

https://www.theplancollection.com/blog/1--building-on-slab-vs--crawl-space-vs--basement--advantages---disadvantage?
In areas that get snow the lowest beam-supported floor may be slightly
raised a foot or three above ground level atop a concrete basement with
small windows for lighting along the upper edge. I think that's why ground
and first floor are the same here.

https://www.boomandbucket.com/blog/platform-framing-vs-balloon-framing?

https://timberframehq.com/timber-framing-101/?

My sister's husband restored their ~1790 farmhouse and added a barn using traditional timber framing. I've used it for firewood storage sheds with simpler exposed metal fasteners and less custom joinery with hand tools. I
can make panel doors for cabinets from smaller and lighter stock and
replaced or rebuilt the deteriorating exterior deck, doors and windows on
this house.

This is the borrowed tool that enabled me to cover all the exterior door and window trim with white aluminum flashing after replacing it with pressure treated wood. https://homeimprovementsupply.com/p-1973-tapco-pro-14-hd-sheet-metal-brake.aspx?

Our electrical standards are different. The supply is 240 volt 60 Hz, center-tapped at the utility transformer to give two 120 legs or "phases"
for wall outlets and small appliances. Each circuit breaker or fuse supplies
a linear string of outlets on typically 12 gauge (3.3 mm^2) pairs with a separate safety ground, no ring mains like you have. Ceiling lights are on different breakers from the wall outlets so one tripped breaker leaves a
light source available. Higher powered equipment like stoves and water
heaters take 240V. I used the 240V 30A circuit that had powered an electric fireplace heater for my 60 gallon air compressor.

When tracing outlet circuit breakers a vacuum cleaner on the floor makes a
low pitched sound that carries better than voice or music.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1se5exycf.fsf@Admins-Air.Home...

Hello again and thanks for responses.
I found my original idea non-viable after doing some heat
calculations.
The change of design meant yes surface water-cooling channels in
"clamped-on blocks" with gaskets - suggested here and rightly so -
would be the way to go.
Changes the ali. I need to order.
Thanks for the input and suggestions.
Rich S
-----------------------------

I helped build an industrial test stand that rapidly temperature cycled automotive ignition modules on copper plate heatsinks with copper tubing
hard soldered (95/5) to the back. The copper was bent into U channels for stiffness to keep the contact surface flat.

The circulating fluid was Therminol that tolerates a much wider temperature range than water, which the system would have alternately frozen and turned into high pressure steam.

https://www.eastman.com/en/products/brands/therminol

Strip heaters are available if you want to start at a controlled elevated temperature. https://www.zoro.com/tempco-strip-heater-120v-6-in-l-1200-deg-f-csh00165/i/G0818483/?

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:113la2o$17vf8$1@dont-email.me...

The circulating fluid was Therminol that tolerates a much wider temperature range than water, which the system would have alternately frozen and turned into high pressure steam.

----------------------------
The fluid may have been UCON from Dow. Both were mentioned.

Easy alternatives are car (ethylene glycol) and RV (propylene glycol) which have higher boiling points. Both are flammable and car antifreeze is toxic. Junkyard car parts could circulate and cool them. https://alliancechemical.com/pages/ethylene-glycol-vs-propylene-glycol?

Another to look into is silicone brake fluid though it's not ideal either.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:113leja$19f4s$1@dont-email.me...

Easy alternatives ...

I was wondering how the system would react to water entering only after the metal became hot, if the sudden shrinkage might permanently warp the flat contact surface. That might also affect the plumbing, a valve on the outlet would cause steam to blast back through the inlet or pump.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Thanks for these valuable hints.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:113leja$19f4s$1@dont-email.me...

Easy alternatives ...

I was wondering how the system would react to water entering only
after the metal became hot, if the sudden shrinkage might permanently
warp the flat contact surface. That might also affect the plumbing, a
valve on the outlet would cause steam to blast back through the inlet
or pump.

Good point.
I'd get the water at room temperature circulating before welding, and
add ice to the reservoir after the first weld runs.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1v7a8m1wv.fsf@void.com...

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:113leja$19f4s$1@dont-email.me...

Easy alternatives ...

I was wondering how the system would react to water entering only
after the metal became hot, if the sudden shrinkage might permanently
warp the flat contact surface. That might also affect the plumbing, a
valve on the outlet would cause steam to blast back through the inlet
or pump.

Good point.
I'd get the water at room temperature circulating before welding, and
add ice to the reservoir after the first weld runs.

------------------------------------

Did you design the cooling plate?

I don't know a good way to cut channels in aluminum without machine tools other than a woodworking circular saw. Before I bought the milling machine I found out the hard way that a drill press wasn't meant for lateral pressure
on the cutting tool. The old slow manual way was with a narrow "cape"
chisel. It could connect rows of closely spaced blind holes. Allowing the holes to overlap is asking for trouble.

I struggled to shape metal with manual and woodworking tools for a long time before buying the machine tools that made those tasks so much easier. Sometimes I still need the blacksmithing anvil, leg vise, chisels and files when the job is too big or awkward for my machines.

My 36# anvil is more useful than one might expect. I just used it to reform copper ring terminals on welding cable to a larger size with a tapered
punch. This works well to crimp on new ones: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QVBD6VM/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?

It hasn't shown the problems mentioned in some reviews. The dies are marked only in AWG sizes. Different sizes may be needed for bare vs insulated terminals or thick or thin walled ones. The crimp is neater if the
insulation has been slid back first. I used that supplier's hammer crimper attached to the anvil for larger welding cable.

Since I don't have the proper very expensive tools for larger sized wire and terminals I solder the wire end with only enough to cover and connect it and not wick all the way through and create a stress concentration for bending
or vibration failure. The wire is usually fine stranded welding or silicone insulated, which stands the heat better than nylon or PVC. https://www.amazon.com/BNTECHGO-Silicone-Flexible-Strands-Stranded/dp/B01M1NU2J6/ref=sr_1_50_sspa?

I pull test after crimping, use a micro-Ohmmeter to measure resistance and a thermal camera to find hot spots at full load that need correction. Crimping without the recommended tool and sometimes with an old one or supposed alternative has still been somewhat sketchy. Car audio CCA wire and circuit breakers failed my testing.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking


On 7/22/2026 6:02 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1v7a8m1wv.fsf@void.com...

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:113leja$19f4s$1@dont-email.me...

Easy alternatives ...

I was wondering how the system would react to water entering only
after the metal became hot, if the sudden shrinkage might permanently
warp the flat contact surface. That might also affect the plumbing, a
valve on the outlet would cause steam to blast back through the inlet
or pump.

Good point.
I'd get the water at room temperature circulating before welding, and
add ice to the reservoir after the first weld runs.

------------------------------------

Did you design the cooling plate?

I don't know a good way to cut channels in aluminum without machine

tools other than a woodworking circular saw.

**** Carbide wood cutting tools work on aluminum. They tend to be a
little fast, and tend to chip weld, but a core box, and a router will
work. either with a guide fence or in a router table. Nearly any
cutting oil improves the results. WD40 and tap magic are commonly
suggested, but I've come to like dark cutting oil on relatively fast
aluminum milling jobs done manually.


Before I bought the milling

machine I found out the hard way that a drill press wasn't meant for

lateral pressure on the cutting tool.

**** Yeah, I had a cross slide vise and was experimenting with that
about the time I joined this group. It seems clever, but it just
doesn't work.


The old slow manual way was with a

narrow "cape" chisel. It could connect rows of closely spaced blind

holes. Allowing the holes to overlap is asking for trouble.


**** That is very brute force and slow, but that doesn't mean it won't
work. Skilled craftsmen cut steel molds with a hammer and a chisel at
one point.

I struggled to shape metal with manual and woodworking tools for a

long time before buying the machine tools that made those tasks so much easier.

**** Except for mild steel and aluminum wood tools are generally beyond
most common fabrication metals. You might bring up my earlier comment
about hammer and chisel, but a chisel has been a metal working tool for
a long time, and there are multiple established metal working processes
for using a chisel.


Sometimes I still need the blacksmithing anvil, leg vise,

chisels and files when the job is too big or awkward for my machines.

**** Ah, there you go. LOL.

My 36# anvil is more useful than one might expect.

**** I know you don't like videos because you believe what they
teach/show could often be summarized in a few sentences, but I follow a variety of craft and trade video channels online. There are decent (by today's standards, not the masters of yore) blacksmiths who have
produced videos showing its possible to use an anvil as light as a
sledge hammer head half buried in the dirt for useful work. I have two
anvils mounted on assembled wood bases now, but for a long time I used a
piece of 1 inch armor plate for most of my anvil type work. I still
have it. I absolutely believe you can use a 36# anvil to do some useful
work.


I just used it to

reform copper ring terminals on welding cable to a larger size with a

tapered punch.

**** And now you are a jeweler. I've had rings resized. Maybe nicer
tools, but the same basic techniques.

This works well to crimp on new ones:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QVBD6VM/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?

**** I don't recall if this was one of them, but Will Prouse (A solar
and lithium battery reviewer on YouTube) recently did high resistance
testing on various connectors and crimpers from the cheapest hammer
crimpers to the most expensive hydraulic crimpers, and found one or two
of the cheap hydraulics like that produced some of the best quality results.

It hasn't shown the problems mentioned in some reviews. The dies are

marked only in AWG sizes. Different sizes may be needed for bare vs
insulated terminals or thick or thin walled ones. The crimp is neater if
the insulation has been slid back first. I used that supplier's hammer
crimper attached to the anvil for larger welding cable.

**** In Will's video the hammer crimper was okay, but far from among the
best. I have a hammer crimper, and a hydraulic crimper, and a compound leverage crimper (I use the last one for wire rope sleeves).

Since I don't have the proper very expensive tools for larger sized

wire and terminals I solder the wire end with only enough to cover and
connect it and not wick all the way through

**** I have never been able to get enough heat into it for soldering
large cables and lugs except with a torch.

and create a stress concentration for bending or vibration failure.

The wire is usually fine stranded welding or silicone insulated, which
stands the heat better than nylon or PVC.

**** Probably not applicable to large gage wire, but I remember my dad
saying the Air Force sent him to soldering school. This very issue is
one of the things they covered. How to make solder connections without creating break points. Its also why I am pretty sure that marine wiring always uses a connector and never solder. Of course the corrosion that
gets into everything is worse than a broken wire, but far be it from me
to argue with a bureaucrat.


https://www.amazon.com/BNTECHGO-Silicone-Flexible-Strands-Stranded/dp/ B01M1NU2J6/ref=sr_1_50_sspa?

I pull test after crimping, use a micro-Ohmmeter to measure

resistance and a thermal camera to find hot spots at full load that need correction. Crimping without the recommended tool and sometimes with an
old one or supposed alternative has still been somewhat sketchy. Car
audio CCA wire and circuit breakers failed my testing.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:113rb0u$39stk$1@dont-email.me...


On 7/22/2026 6:02 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1v7a8m1wv.fsf@void.com...

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

I don't know a good way to cut channels in aluminum without machine

tools other than a woodworking circular saw.

**** Carbide wood cutting tools work on aluminum. They tend to be a
little fast, and tend to chip weld, but a core box, and a router will
work. either with a guide fence or in a router table. Nearly any
cutting oil improves the results. WD40 and tap magic are commonly
suggested, but I've come to like dark cutting oil on relatively fast
aluminum milling jobs done manually.

WWWWW

Before I bought the milling

machine I found out the hard way that a drill press wasn't meant for

lateral pressure on the cutting tool.

**** Yeah, I had a cross slide vise and was experimenting with that
about the time I joined this group. It seems clever, but it just
doesn't work.


The old slow manual way was with a

narrow "cape" chisel. It could connect rows of closely spaced blind

holes. Allowing the holes to overlap is asking for trouble.


**** That is very brute force and slow, but that doesn't mean it won't
work. Skilled craftsmen cut steel molds with a hammer and a chisel at
one point.

I struggled to shape metal with manual and woodworking tools for a

long time before buying the machine tools that made those tasks so much
easier.

**** Except for mild steel and aluminum wood tools are generally beyond
most common fabrication metals. You might bring up my earlier comment
about hammer and chisel, but a chisel has been a metal working tool for
a long time, and there are multiple established metal working processes
for using a chisel.


Sometimes I still need the blacksmithing anvil, leg vise,

chisels and files when the job is too big or awkward for my machines.

**** Ah, there you go. LOL.

My 36# anvil is more useful than one might expect.

**** I know you don't like videos because you believe what they
teach/show could often be summarized in a few sentences, but I follow a
variety of craft and trade video channels online. There are decent (by
today's standards, not the masters of yore) blacksmiths who have
produced videos showing its possible to use an anvil as light as a
sledge hammer head half buried in the dirt for useful work. I have two
anvils mounted on assembled wood bases now, but for a long time I used a
piece of 1 inch armor plate for most of my anvil type work. I still
have it. I absolutely believe you can use a 36# anvil to do some useful
work.

WWWWW

I just used it to

reform copper ring terminals on welding cable to a larger size with a

tapered punch.

**** And now you are a jeweler. I've had rings resized. Maybe nicer
tools, but the same basic techniques.

This works well to crimp on new ones:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QVBD6VM/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?

**** I don't recall if this was one of them, but Will Prouse (A solar
and lithium battery reviewer on YouTube) recently did high resistance
testing on various connectors and crimpers from the cheapest hammer
crimpers to the most expensive hydraulic crimpers, and found one or two
of the cheap hydraulics like that produced some of the best quality results.

**** In Will's video the hammer crimper was okay, but far from among the
best. I have a hammer crimper, and a hydraulic crimper, and a compound leverage crimper (I use the last one for wire rope sleeves).

JWWWWW
I followed his advice to buy Litime before the tax credit ended but haven't checked since. I found an Iwiss compound hex crimper awkward and uncertain. With the hydraulic tool one hand can close the jaws to snug contact while
the other controls the wire and terminal.

My main objection to videos is the large amount of my limited cellular data allotment they consume for the little hard info they disclose. I think
content should be dense enough that you have to skip back and watch again sometimes, as in a textbook, or I do with the weather forecast which I
record.

I should average no more than 300~350MB per day and a brief Amazon search or graphics-heavy news item can consume 100. A spreadsheet I wrote tells me
where I should be each morning.

I'd use copper crimp sleeves on steel wire if the stores carried them, but they have only aluminum. Copper tubing didn't seem like an acceptably strong substitute though I used it for the chimney brush cable which stays
outdoors.

Since I don't have the proper very expensive tools for larger sized

wire and terminals I solder the wire end with only enough to cover and
connect it and not wick all the way through

**** I have never been able to get enough heat into it for soldering
large cables and lugs except with a torch.

JWWWWW
My home iron is an 80W adjustable Hakko that can handle 8 AWG, barely. I use
a propane torch for 6 and larger, mainly for Andersons with solder cups.
Fine 63/37 solder from flea markets allows better control of the amount in
the joint. Pulling it through folded paper removes the oxide.

and create a stress concentration for bending or vibration failure.

The wire is usually fine stranded welding or silicone insulated, which
stands the heat better than nylon or PVC.

**** Probably not applicable to large gage wire, but I remember my dad
saying the Air Force sent him to soldering school. This very issue is
one of the things they covered. How to make solder connections without creating break points. Its also why I am pretty sure that marine wiring
always uses a connector and never solder. Of course the corrosion that
gets into everything is worse than a broken wire, but far be it from me
to argue with a bureaucrat.

JWWWWW
I had NSA (No Such Agency) soldering training, because I trained to repair their crypto machines. The goal was to make the repair indistinguishable
from the original assembly. Like at the rifle range, after instruction the sergeant watched me practice and moved on without advice to the next guy.

Only four of us graduated, all with technical degrees. After the Vietnam
draft ended the Army couldn't recruit the necessary skill level and degraded the course from component replacement to board swapping.

In industry the proper ratchet crimper was always supplied and I didn't need to solder afterwards. The crimpers I found at flea markets were either worn and needed shimming to pass drill bit shank qualification, or an aftermarket imitation sold cheap because it wasn't quite right. I beat on and test them until they work, as determined by measuring and dissecting a sample.

The fine stranded wire I use is larger than solid, 7 or 19 strand and may
need a larger sized or wedged open crimp barrel. Wedging open with a punch allows fine stranded 10 AWG to fit a round 45A Anderson pin. 8 AWG requires
a U crimp pin. A screwdriver blade can force silicone insulation into a PP45 housing but I have to trim back other insulation.

Machinery was always wired with stranded MTW-rated (Machine Tool Wire) wire and crimp terminals, never solid Romex. Solid wire was allowed only for
short jumpers on circuit boards. The reason given were that stranded better survived vibration and later modification, for which we left a 'service
loop' sufficient for 3 replacement crimps. Machines that didn't vibrate
still had to survive the truck trip from NH to Detroit.

The cabling to door panel controls ran vertically along the hinge for most
of its height, so the wires would twist rather than bend. The control logic was relays on the back panel since microprocessors had only just been introduced. Relay logic was easy for me after the complexity of crypto.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m11pcyzd57.fsf@Admins-Air.Home...

You are right I considered it, but went with other priorities including learning a lot of building skills first to get the ourbuilding in order. Machine tools would have gone through a winter with everything very
damp.
Did alright with my mineral processing experiments during "the land of perpetual darkness" with a month January into February where someone
commented in the pub that they never went out for that month.

No machine tool yet - but thanks for the suggestion...

Best wishes all.
---------------------------------------
This is what a very skilled old time machinist could do with a drill press
and lathe:

https://www.kitplanes.com/the-home-machinist-7/

https://www.wright-brothers.org/Information_Desk/Just_the_Facts/Engines_&_Props/1903_Engine.htm

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:

On 7/22/2026 6:02 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1v7a8m1wv.fsf@void.com...

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:113leja$19f4s$1@dont-email.me...

Easy alternatives ...

I was wondering how the system would react to water entering only
after the metal became hot, if the sudden shrinkage might permanently
warp the flat contact surface. That might also affect the plumbing, a
valve on the outlet would cause steam to blast back through the inlet
or pump.

Good point.
I'd get the water at room temperature circulating before welding, and
add ice to the reservoir after the first weld runs.

------------------------------------

Did you design the cooling plate?

I don't know a good way to cut channels in aluminum without machine

tools other than a woodworking circular saw.

**** Carbide wood cutting tools work on aluminum. They tend to be a
little fast, and tend to chip weld, but a core box, and a router
will work. either with a guide fence or in a router table.
Nearly any cutting oil improves the results. WD40 and tap magic
are commonly suggested, but I've come to like dark cutting oil on
relatively fast aluminum milling jobs done manually.

...

Hello there Jim, Bob, everyone

For sealed-system water-cooling, I thought of this:

_
----------------
| |XXXXXXXXXXXX
| |XXXXXXXXXXXX
----------------
-
w
a |aluminium->
t
e
r

I thought of welding on a sheet-metal extension - sort of "[" shaped
through which water flows.


I am about to go out and try some welding.
I am completely changing plans.

I have got several plates of ali. and will rotate them around. One run
per pass by where I am welding.

Only if I were to get good results, "sealed-system" water-cooling would
be looked-to...

It turns out to look like "the devil's own job" to get a sample large
enough, ie. a multi-run weld volume - which has the properties of
single-run (fillet?) weld on a large extent&mass of ali. plate (like
welding-up a boat/ship).

It's the heat buildup issue...

Reg
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1cxwcrg3a.fsf@void.com...

Hello there Jim, Bob, everyone

For sealed-system water-cooling, I thought of this:

_
----------------
| |XXXXXXXXXXXX
| |XXXXXXXXXXXX
----------------
-
w
a |aluminium->
t
e
r

I thought of welding on a sheet-metal extension - sort of "[" shaped
through which water flows.


I am about to go out and try some welding.
I am completely changing plans.

I have got several plates of ali. and will rotate them around. One run
per pass by where I am welding.

Only if I were to get good results, "sealed-system" water-cooling would
be looked-to...

It turns out to look like "the devil's own job" to get a sample large
enough, ie. a multi-run weld volume - which has the properties of
single-run (fillet?) weld on a large extent&mass of ali. plate (like
welding-up a boat/ship).

It's the heat buildup issue...

Reg
----------------------------
I wonder if aluminium tubing attached with Zn+Al brazing rod would do.

I acquired a bundle of cutoffs of silicone heater hose which is much more flexible than reinforced rubber and would be good for connecting closely spaced straight tubing sections.



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 7/24/2026 12:39 AM, Richard Smith wrote:

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:

On 7/22/2026 6:02 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1v7a8m1wv.fsf@void.com...

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:113leja$19f4s$1@dont-email.me... >>>>> Easy alternatives ...

I was wondering how the system would react to water entering only
after the metal became hot, if the sudden shrinkage might permanently
warp the flat contact surface. That might also affect the plumbing, a >>>> valve on the outlet would cause steam to blast back through the inlet
or pump.

Good point.
I'd get the water at room temperature circulating before welding, and
add ice to the reservoir after the first weld runs.

------------------------------------

Did you design the cooling plate?

I don't know a good way to cut channels in aluminum without machine

tools other than a woodworking circular saw.

**** Carbide wood cutting tools work on aluminum. They tend to be a
little fast, and tend to chip weld, but a core box, and a router
will work. either with a guide fence or in a router table.
Nearly any cutting oil improves the results. WD40 and tap magic
are commonly suggested, but I've come to like dark cutting oil on
relatively fast aluminum milling jobs done manually.

...

Hello there Jim, Bob, everyone

For sealed-system water-cooling, I thought of this:

_
----------------
| |XXXXXXXXXXXX
| |XXXXXXXXXXXX
----------------
-
w
a |aluminium->
t
e
r

I thought of welding on a sheet-metal extension - sort of "[" shaped
through which water flows.

I am about to go out and try some welding.
I am completely changing plans.

I have got several plates of ali. and will rotate them around. One run
per pass by where I am welding.

Only if I were to get good results, "sealed-system" water-cooling would
be looked-to...

It turns out to look like "the devil's own job" to get a sample large
enough, ie. a multi-run weld volume - which has the properties of
single-run (fillet?) weld on a large extent&mass of ali. plate (like welding-up a boat/ship).

It's the heat buildup issue...

Reg

I have no idea exactly what you are doing, but I have heard of people
wrapping wet rags around the gear case of an outboard lower to keep from cooking gear oil and shaft seals while doing skeg repairs. Because skeg repairs tend to be limited and far from the actual gear case I don't
think pros do it that way. I think they just make the weld in very
small sections to limit heat input. If they are close to the gear case
they just dump the oil, and pull the seals. BUT, I have heard of it.
They idea scares the living bejeeebers out of me for electrocution risk,
but seeing as you have welded around water quite a lot you can better
evaluate that risk than I could.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1cxwcrg3a.fsf@void.com...

I thought of welding on a sheet-metal extension - sort of "[" shaped
through which water flows.

Sheet aluminium is difficult to bend accurately without a brake machine, and needs experience even with one. Purchased channel extrusions might give you less trouble.

I have the Central Machinery version of this, which is tricky to adjust and get good results from. The previous owner had given up on it. https://www.kakaindustrial.com/products/30in-combination-sheet-metal-brake?

0.062" 6061 pushes its limits, 0.050" 5052 works better.

I use an 8" bench shear, like big scissors, to cut large sheets down to the size it can take.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 7/24/2026 3:02 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Richard Smith"-a wrote in message news:m1cxwcrg3a.fsf@void.com...

I thought of welding on a sheet-metal extension - sort of "[" shaped
through which water flows.

Sheet aluminium is difficult to bend accurately without a brake machine,
and needs experience even with one. Purchased channel extrusions might
give you less trouble.

I have the Central Machinery version of this, which is tricky to adjust
and get good results from. The previous owner had given up on it. https://www.kakaindustrial.com/products/30in-combination-sheet-metal-brake?

0.062" 6061 pushes its limits, 0.050" 5052 works better.

I use an 8" bench shear, like big scissors, to cut large sheets down to
the size it can take.

I have a decent Tennsmith, Harbor Freight basic 30in, a vise brake, and
a hydraulic press brake. It can definitely be tricky. Also, the
thicker it is the larger radius you should try to bend. You can fake
this with a box brake, by setting the clamp fence back from the bending surface and sandwiching layers of pressed cardboard between the sheet
and the clamp.

If you try to bend to sharp with no radius the aluminum tears.

The cleanest tightest bends I have made were by making partial thickness
cuts, bending by hand across a tractor bucket or a trailer fence rail,
and then making a fillet weld on the inside. The outside looks cleaner
than an outside corner weld, and its easier.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:1140o3j$30k76$1@dont-email.me...

I have a decent Tennsmith, Harbor Freight basic 30in, a vise brake, and
a hydraulic press brake. It can definitely be tricky. Also, the
thicker it is the larger radius you should try to bend. You can fake
this with a box brake, by setting the clamp fence back from the bending
surface and sandwiching layers of pressed cardboard between the sheet
and the clamp.

If you try to bend to sharp with no radius the aluminum tears.

The cleanest tightest bends I have made were by making partial thickness
cuts, bending by hand across a tractor bucket or a trailer fence rail,
and then making a fillet weld on the inside. The outside looks cleaner
than an outside corner weld, and its easier.
Bob La Londe

------------------------------------
I was taught that to fold sharp corners in aluminum outer window frame covering. Otherwise I respect the numbers in sheet metal bend radius tables. Corners on machines shouldn't be too sharp anyway.

You can bend with a radius on the 30" press brake by reversing the dies,
flat end down, and using them to press a rod into the female die. The rod could be taped in place but I didn't need to. The bend allowance is
negative, like conduit.

I bent vees in narrow scrap strips that pad the lower die to adjust for a right angle in different thicknesses of stock. It's easier than fiddling
with the adjustments and doesn't scratch the outside as much.

The primitive squaring guide on mine now clamps a ruler to square and
measure.

The rollers made stainless steel stovepipe from scrap. That alone half paid for the machine.

The order of these arrived today, to replace the brittle plastic clips that retain the trim on my car with stainless. https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Steel-Style-U-Type-Fasteners/dp/B0CF48JSLS/
So far they have fit well. I will try them to hold a 22ga galvy patch underneath that can be removed for inspection, which is what breaks the plastic clips. Nylon license plate nuts and bolts now hold the outside trim.
I hope they will shear to preserve the no-longer-available trim if struck.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 7/24/2026 12:22 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 7/24/2026 12:39 AM, Richard Smith wrote:

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:

On 7/22/2026 6:02 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Richard Smith"-a wrote in message news:m1v7a8m1wv.fsf@void.com...

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Jim Wilkins"-a wrote in message news:113leja$19f4s$1@dont-email.me... >>>>>> Easy alternatives ...

I was wondering how the system would react to water entering only
after the metal became hot, if the sudden shrinkage might permanently >>>>> warp the flat contact surface.-a That might also affect the plumbing, a >>>>> valve on the outlet would cause steam to blast back through the inlet >>>>> or pump.

Good point.
I'd get the water at room temperature circulating before welding, and
add ice to the reservoir after the first weld runs.

------------------------------------

Did you design the cooling plate?

I don't know a good way to cut channels in aluminum without machine

-a-a tools other than a woodworking circular saw.

**** Carbide wood cutting tools work on aluminum.-a They tend to be a
-a-a-a-a-a little fast, and tend to chip weld, but a core box, and a router >>> -a-a-a-a-a will work. either with a guide fence or in a router table.
-a-a-a-a-a Nearly any cutting oil improves the results.-a WD40 and tap magic
-a-a-a-a-a are commonly suggested, but I've come to like dark cutting oil on
-a-a-a-a-a relatively fast aluminum milling jobs done manually.

...

Hello there Jim, Bob, everyone

For sealed-system water-cooling, I thought of this:

-a-a-a-a-a _
-a ----------------
-a |-a |XXXXXXXXXXXX
-a |-a |XXXXXXXXXXXX
-a ----------------
-a-a-a-a-a -
-a-a w
-a-a a |aluminium->
-a-a t
-a-a e
-a-a r

I thought of welding on a sheet-metal extension - sort of "[" shaped
through which water flows.


I am about to go out and try some welding.
I am completely changing plans.

I have got several plates of ali. and will rotate them around.-a One run
per pass by where I am welding.

Only if I were to get good results, "sealed-system" water-cooling would
be looked-to...

It turns out to look like "the devil's own job" to get a sample large
enough, ie. a multi-run weld volume - which has the properties of
single-run (fillet?) weld on a large extent&mass of ali. plate (like
welding-up a boat/ship).

It's the heat buildup issue...

Reg

I have no idea exactly what you are doing, but I have heard of people wrapping wet rags around the gear case of an outboard lower to keep from cooking gear oil and shaft seals while doing skeg repairs.-a Because skeg repairs tend to be limited and far from the actual gear case I don't
think pros do it that way.-a I think they just make the weld in very
small sections to limit heat input.-a If they are close to the gear case they just dump the oil, and pull the seals.-a BUT, I have heard of it.
They idea scares the living bejeeebers out of me for electrocution risk,
but seeing as you have welded around water quite a lot you can better evaluate that risk than I could.

With flowing water you really don't need a huge internal volume for your cooling plate/s. DIY cooling plates are often functionally just a U
shape passage inside the plate. They drill two deep holes from one
edge, and drill a cross hole from a perpendicular edge, then plug the
end of the hole. I find deep drilling tedious, and of course there is
some risk of wander and blowout, but lots of DIYers with a lot less
knowledge and skill than you or I successfully do it with woefully
inadequate tools.

The cooling plate gets finished with all three entry holes threaded.
One gets a pipe plug, and the other two get hose fittings.

Aluminum transfers heat really well. Just that small amount of water
flowing continuously works pretty well. For fast cooling they will
often drop a pond pump in a bucket of ice water. Mostly ice to start.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 7/21/2026 3:03 PM, Richard Smith wrote:

Thanks for these valuable hints.

I think my point in some of my previous replies is maybe you don't need
to overthink it.

Ideally you need a water passage with ways to safely get water in and
out, but wet rags might do the trick instead if you aren't afraid of electrocution.

Most of the ideas presented from complex to stupid simple "can" work,
but its up to you to decide/determine what falls within your resources, capability, and acceptable risk.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 25/07/2026 18:37, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 7/24/2026 12:22 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 7/24/2026 12:39 AM, Richard Smith wrote:

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:

On 7/22/2026 6:02 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Richard Smith"-a wrote in message news:m1v7a8m1wv.fsf@void.com...

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Jim Wilkins"-a wrote in message
news:113leja$19f4s$1@dont-email.me...

Easy alternatives ...

I was wondering how the system would react to water entering only
after the metal became hot, if the sudden shrinkage might
permanently
warp the flat contact surface.-a That might also affect the
plumbing, a
valve on the outlet would cause steam to blast back through the
inlet
or pump.

Good point.
I'd get the water at room temperature circulating before welding, and >>>>> add ice to the reservoir after the first weld runs.

------------------------------------

Did you design the cooling plate?

I don't know a good way to cut channels in aluminum without machine

-a-a tools other than a woodworking circular saw.

**** Carbide wood cutting tools work on aluminum.-a They tend to be a
-a-a-a-a-a little fast, and tend to chip weld, but a core box, and a router
-a-a-a-a-a will work. either with a guide fence or in a router table.
-a-a-a-a-a Nearly any cutting oil improves the results.-a WD40 and tap magic
-a-a-a-a-a are commonly suggested, but I've come to like dark cutting >>>> oil on
-a-a-a-a-a relatively fast aluminum milling jobs done manually.

...

Hello there Jim, Bob, everyone

For sealed-system water-cooling, I thought of this:

-a-a-a-a-a _
-a ----------------
-a |-a |XXXXXXXXXXXX
-a |-a |XXXXXXXXXXXX
-a ----------------
-a-a-a-a-a -
-a-a w
-a-a a |aluminium->
-a-a t
-a-a e
-a-a r

I thought of welding on a sheet-metal extension - sort of "[" shaped
through which water flows.


I am about to go out and try some welding.
I am completely changing plans.

I have got several plates of ali. and will rotate them around.-a One run >>> per pass by where I am welding.

Only if I were to get good results, "sealed-system" water-cooling would
be looked-to...

It turns out to look like "the devil's own job" to get a sample large
enough, ie. a multi-run weld volume - which has the properties of
single-run (fillet?) weld on a large extent&mass of ali. plate (like
welding-up a boat/ship).

It's the heat buildup issue...

Reg

I have no idea exactly what you are doing, but I have heard of people
wrapping wet rags around the gear case of an outboard lower to keep
from cooking gear oil and shaft seals while doing skeg repairs.-a
Because skeg repairs tend to be limited and far from the actual gear
case I don't think pros do it that way.-a I think they just make the
weld in very small sections to limit heat input.-a If they are close
to the gear case they just dump the oil, and pull the seals.-a BUT, I
have heard of it. They idea scares the living bejeeebers out of me
for electrocution risk, but seeing as you have welded around water
quite a lot you can better evaluate that risk than I could.

With flowing water you really don't need a huge internal volume for
your cooling plate/s.-a DIY cooling plates are often functionally just
a U shape passage inside the plate.-a They drill two deep holes from
one edge, and drill a cross hole from a perpendicular edge, then plug
the end of the hole.-a I find deep drilling tedious, and of course
there is some risk of wander and blowout, but lots of DIYers with a
lot less knowledge and skill than you or I successfully do it with
woefully inadequate tools.

A job I do from time to time involves drilling a hole through 150mm of
310 stainless, drilled from each end to the centre, and it got a bit
tedious with a standard screwed tailstock so when a spare came up on
ebay at a sensible price I bought it and converted it to lever operation
which makes the job far more pleasant and quicker. That tailstock suits
most of my work on the lathe so stays in place and only gets swapped for
the standard one for heavy drilling and clamping.

The cooling plate gets finished with all three entry holes threaded.
One gets a pipe plug, and the other two get hose fittings.

Aluminum transfers heat really well.-a Just that small amount of water flowing continuously works pretty well.-a For fast cooling they will
often drop a pond pump in a bucket of ice water.-a Mostly ice to start.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:11416ff$14vaf$1@dont-email.me...

You can bend with a radius on the 30" press brake by reversing the dies,
flat end down, and using them to press a rod into the female die. The rod
could be taped in place but I didn't need to. The bend allowance is
negative, like conduit.

-------------------------------------

I made another radius bend yesterday to match a car part and remembered
more. The square bottom of the dies can indent the sheet metal enough to
form a valley that will hold the sheet and rod in place on the lower die.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 7/28/2026 12:07 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Jim Wilkins"-a wrote in message news:11416ff$14vaf$1@dont-email.me...

You can bend with a radius on the 30" press brake by reversing the dies,
flat end down, and using them to press a rod into the female die. The rod could be taped in place but I didn't need to. The bend allowance is
negative, like conduit.

-------------------------------------

I made another radius bend yesterday to match a car part and remembered more. The square bottom of the dies can indent the sheet metal enough to form a valley that will hold the sheet and rod in place on the lower die.

I assume that is for something like a press brake.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:114auuv$ae12$1@dont-email.me...

On 7/28/2026 12:07 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I made another radius bend yesterday to match a car part and remembered more. The square bottom of the dies can indent the sheet metal enough to form a valley that will hold the sheet and rod in place on the lower die.

I assume that is for something like a press brake.
Bob La Londe

---------------------------------
Yes, the 30" 3-in-1. Is that your HF 30"?

At Mitre my model shop had conventional Pexto shear and Roper-Whitney finger brake machines plus a Taiwanese 24" 3-in-1 of better than Chicom
construction. Only the 3-in-1 on wheels would have been both small and
capable enough for my home shop though I greatly preferred the convenience
of the old American iron.

My 8" lever shear has seen quite a bit of use recently on metal too large or thick for the 3-in-1. It handles 1/8" if clamped down, 18 gauge if held down by hand. Usually I put it on the driveway retaining wall where it's handy to trim car repair parts.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 7/28/2026 2:46 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:114auuv$ae12$1@dont-email.me...

On 7/28/2026 12:07 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I made another radius bend yesterday to match a car part and
remembered more. The square bottom of the dies can indent the sheet
metal enough to form a valley that will hold the sheet and rod in
place on the lower die.

I assume that is for something like a press brake.
Bob La Londe

---------------------------------
Yes, the 30" 3-in-1. Is that your HF 30"?

At Mitre my model shop had conventional Pexto shear and Roper-Whitney
finger brake machines plus a Taiwanese 24" 3-in-1 of better than Chicom construction. Only the 3-in-1 on wheels would have been both small and capable enough for my home shop though I greatly preferred the
convenience of the old American iron.

My 8" lever shear has seen quite a bit of use recently on metal too
large or thick for the 3-in-1. It handles 1/8" if clamped down, 18 gauge
if held down by hand. Usually I put it on the driveway retaining wall
where it's handy to trim car repair parts.

No, my HF 30 is a pan brake. Its got a single bar (no fingers), but it
is still a hinged platten style folder. I never use it. I have a 48" Tennsmith box and pan brake and a 12" hydraulic press brake that get all
the use. Even my vise brake has been used more recently than the HF 30.
I used to use it for bending stainless wires until I made and bought a couple wire and small rod benders.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:

On 7/24/2026 12:39 AM, Richard Smith wrote:

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:

On 7/22/2026 6:02 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1v7a8m1wv.fsf@void.com...

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:113leja$19f4s$1@dont-email.me... >>>>>> Easy alternatives ...

I was wondering how the system would react to water entering only
after the metal became hot, if the sudden shrinkage might permanently >>>>> warp the flat contact surface. That might also affect the plumbing, a >>>>> valve on the outlet would cause steam to blast back through the inlet >>>>> or pump.

Good point.
I'd get the water at room temperature circulating before welding, and
add ice to the reservoir after the first weld runs.

------------------------------------

Did you design the cooling plate?

I don't know a good way to cut channels in aluminum without machine

tools other than a woodworking circular saw.

**** Carbide wood cutting tools work on aluminum. They tend to be a
little fast, and tend to chip weld, but a core box, and a router
will work. either with a guide fence or in a router table.
Nearly any cutting oil improves the results. WD40 and tap magic
are commonly suggested, but I've come to like dark cutting oil on
relatively fast aluminum milling jobs done manually.

...

Hello there Jim, Bob, everyone
For sealed-system water-cooling, I thought of this:
_
----------------
| |XXXXXXXXXXXX
| |XXXXXXXXXXXX
----------------
-
w
a |aluminium->
t
e
r
I thought of welding on a sheet-metal extension - sort of "[" shaped
through which water flows.
I am about to go out and try some welding.
I am completely changing plans.
I have got several plates of ali. and will rotate them around. One
run
per pass by where I am welding.
Only if I were to get good results, "sealed-system" water-cooling
would
be looked-to...
It turns out to look like "the devil's own job" to get a sample
large
enough, ie. a multi-run weld volume - which has the properties of
single-run (fillet?) weld on a large extent&mass of ali. plate (like
welding-up a boat/ship).
It's the heat buildup issue...
Reg

I have no idea exactly what you are doing, but I have heard of people wrapping wet rags around the gear case of an outboard lower to keep
from cooking gear oil and shaft seals while doing skeg repairs.
Because skeg repairs tend to be limited and far from the actual gear
case I don't think pros do it that way. I think they just make the
weld in very small sections to limit heat input. If they are close to
the gear case they just dump the oil, and pull the seals. BUT, I have
heard of it. They idea scares the living bejeeebers out of me for electrocution risk, but seeing as you have welded around water quite a
lot you can better evaluate that risk than I could.

Problem would be the steam coming off it.
Ali + water / moisture don't go together well (lots of blowholes / porosity)
In the outboard-motor for boat case the wet rag is near the gear-shafts
and sitant from the weld.

In my case the wet rag would be very close to the weld and the steam
coming off risks messing-up the weld.

Can see where this is a good idea - but cannot see it working well in
this case.

Regards, Rich S
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Sounds good.
Thought of milling wide-ish small-depth channels surrounded by a groove
for an O-ring gasket. Water flowing against the weld-test-plate
surface.
But still sealed away from the weld environment.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Thanks again so much everyone.

Facing the difficulties, I sidestepped the whole issue.
Started with bead-on-plate welds on several pieces of ali rotated
around weld-and-cool.
Being bead-on-plate and looking only at the run of the weld-bead can
simply dip in water...

Sealed-system water-cooling would come back far in the future when
getting apparently excellent welds showing good properties - and it is
time to prove it.
By then you'd probably be instrumenting with thermocouple(s), etc.

So again - thanks very much all of you,
Regards,
Rich Smith
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On Thu, 16 Jul 2026 15:38:39 +0100, Richard Smith wrote:
...

Is this drilling I was thinking of doing easy to do?

I need to water-cool a plate of ali. 5083 (Al-Mg) used to make
all-weld-metal samples. > Keep the interpass temperature low enough.

I visualise drilling a hole along the 200mm (8inch) length of the
plate. > Hole being 8mm or 10mm (3/8inch) diameter.

Passing along the mid-plane of the 20mm (3/4inch) thickness ali. plate.

Contamination, within all reason, would not be a problem here where
drilled - it isn't that near to or connected to the welds being
deposited. I imagine a large water storage and a pump moving cooling
water through that drilled hole, with return back to the tank.

Please advise if there is a between scheme for cooling.

Holes that deep (about 21 diameters, 200/9.5) can be drilled with gun
drills. But "5083 aluminum is moderately sticky and prone to gumming
up during drilling" (per google) so peck drilling and clearing chips
might be pretty tedious. Maybe drill halfway from each side with a slightly-under bit, then clean up with a 3/8" bit.

Consider buying some 40mm x 200mm x 12mm water cooling blocks (US cost
about $26 per pair) and using one as the work surface, or fastening
several to your 5083 plate. How hot will the heatsink get? That
might affect whether you could use heatsink compound.

https://www.amazon.com/DIYhz-Aluminum-Computer-Graphics-Endothermic/dp/B07TDQ1M32
--
jiw
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"James Waldby" wrote in message news:11534u3$6hpf$1@dont-email.me...

On Thu, 16 Jul 2026 15:38:39 +0100, Richard Smith wrote:
...

Is this drilling I was thinking of doing easy to do?

I need to water-cool a plate of ali. 5083 (Al-Mg) used to make
all-weld-metal samples. > Keep the interpass temperature low enough.

I visualise drilling a hole along the 200mm (8inch) length of the
plate. > Hole being 8mm or 10mm (3/8inch) diameter.

Passing along the mid-plane of the 20mm (3/4inch) thickness ali. plate.

Contamination, within all reason, would not be a problem here where
drilled - it isn't that near to or connected to the welds being
deposited. I imagine a large water storage and a pump moving cooling
water through that drilled hole, with return back to the tank.

Please advise if there is a between scheme for cooling.

Holes that deep (about 21 diameters, 200/9.5) can be drilled with gun
drills. But "5083 aluminum is moderately sticky and prone to gumming
up during drilling" (per google) so peck drilling and clearing chips
might be pretty tedious. Maybe drill halfway from each side with a slightly-under bit, then clean up with a 3/8" bit.

Consider buying some 40mm x 200mm x 12mm water cooling blocks (US cost
about $26 per pair) and using one as the work surface, or fastening
several to your 5083 plate. How hot will the heatsink get? That
might affect whether you could use heatsink compound.

https://www.amazon.com/DIYhz-Aluminum-Computer-Graphics-Endothermic/dp/B07TDQ1M32
jiw

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Maybe this is a result of being sleepy. I wonder if a drill bit would tend
to follow the joint between two 10mm plates bolted together. If not the line could be piloted with saw cuts. The hole would be the OD of aluminium
tubing, and aluminimum foil on the cool side could shim it tight.

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:1153gpb$b5d3$1@dont-email.me...

Maybe this is a result of being sleepy. I wonder if a drill bit would tend

to follow the joint between two 10mm plates bolted together. If not the line could be piloted with saw cuts. The hole would be the OD of aluminium
tubing, and aluminimum foil on the cool side could shim it tight.

----------------------------------------------------

If that works a simple way to move the water is a water bed drill pump with garden hose fittings. Rubber and vinyl tubing easily adapt to straight metal tubes with hose clamps, pipe thread with barbed adapters and garden hose thread with repair fittings. A sump pump in the lower reservoir and bulkhead fitting with shut-off valve to the cooler in the upper one would automate
the coolant flow and limit overpressure if a hose kinks. I've seen those fittings to modify a trash can into a rain barrel. Mine were turned and threaded on the lathe from repair ends.

I find explaining and demonstrating something distracting enough that I
forget steps like turning on the water.

A hand-held drill makes pulling out the bit to clear chips and add cutting fluid simple. If you don't have a twist bit long enough a gun-type deep hole drill bit can be hand ground from hardenable steel rod, Silver Steel.
Several edge shapes work, I like D bits. They dull quickly if not hardened, have little chip space and need to be pulled out often, and they don't cut
as aggressively as twist drills. Besides ease of making and resharpening
they are stiffer than twist drills. Aircraft and bell hanger drills have
short fluted twist sections and long full shanks and may cut faster if you
can find them.

Larger drill bits cut much faster with a pilot hole the size of the blunt center web.

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