From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10s643t$11ks6$1@dont-email.me...

On 4/20/2026 1:31 PM, Richard Smith wrote:

Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> writes:

On 3/27/2026 1:13 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 3/26/2026 6:36 PM, Snag wrote:

I have a heavy cotton long sleeve shirt that I use almost
exclusively for welding . When it's hot I can wet it for evap
cooling .

Thanks for explaining how you can weld in hot places.
Damp your clothes and get evaporative cooling...

I was working in Cleveland, Ohio, 25 years ago, and the summers were
about 35degC (90-high-something Farenheit?) and 90-something % humidity.

What onlookers didn't know seeing me working in that metal casting
foundry is that as the temperature goes up the relative humidity must
surely go down (same amount of water and the temperature has gone up, so
the ability to hold water must go up - which means relative humidity
lower?). For sure if you worked hard you got white salt stains on your T-shirt.

I spent a couple summers in the late 70s and early 80s not to far from Cleveland. (20 miles west in Avon) It was pretty miserable when the
temps were in the 90s(F). I'm not so sure about your comments about
temp and humidity. In a wet climate like Ohio you get a lot more
evaporation from the standing water in higher temps, and in some cases I
was told they would get was called a self feeding rain.

They don't heat air to dry it in an air drier. They refrigerate it and
force it to condense. Heat at much higher temps closer to boiling ARE
used for forcing moisture out of desiccant and welding rod, but those
are not human habitable temperatures.

A dual desiccant chamber air dryer does use heat, but its much higher
heat to evaporate moisture into the air from the desiccant in the
inactive chamber, while the other chamber is absorbing moisture.

I think in a wet climate more heat, just means more evaporation into the
air. Maybe you were just a lot tougher when you were younger.

Maybe there are breaking points where things change?
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

-----------------------------------

When liquid water is available to evaporate the vapor pressure of water increases with rising temperature, as given in a steam table. Water doesn't 'dissolve' in air, the two ignore each other. Relative humidity is the percentage of how much water the air does vs could hold at that temperature.

I looked into this to estimate when I should open the windows instead of running A/C to make the house more comfortable, if the night air was cooler but damper than inside. It appears that around 60-70F the relative humidity decreases ~2.7% for each 1 degree F temperature increase.

My solution for cooler and damper night air is to subtract 1 degree from the temperature difference for each 2.5 or 3% RH difference, whichever is
mentally easier, to compare which is more comfortable. For example if it's
65F out and 75F in the outdoor air could be 25~ 30% more humid to be equal, though if within 5 degrees the minimal benefit isn't worth the fan electricity.

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10s643t$11ks6$1@dont-email.me...

On 4/20/2026 1:31 PM, Richard Smith wrote:

Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> writes:

On 3/27/2026 1:13 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 3/26/2026 6:36 PM, Snag wrote:

I have a heavy cotton long sleeve shirt that I use almost
exclusively for welding . When it's hot I can wet it for evap
cooling .

Thanks for explaining how you can weld in hot places.
Damp your clothes and get evaporative cooling...

I was working in Cleveland, Ohio, 25 years ago, and the summers were
about 35degC (90-high-something Farenheit?) and 90-something % humidity.

What onlookers didn't know seeing me working in that metal casting
foundry is that as the temperature goes up the relative humidity must
surely go down (same amount of water and the temperature has gone up, so
the ability to hold water must go up - which means relative humidity
lower?). For sure if you worked hard you got white salt stains on your
T-shirt.

I spent a couple summers in the late 70s and early 80s not to far from Cleveland. (20 miles west in Avon) It was pretty miserable when the
temps were in the 90s(F). I'm not so sure about your comments about
temp and humidity. In a wet climate like Ohio you get a lot more
evaporation from the standing water in higher temps, and in some cases I
was told they would get was called a self feeding rain.

They don't heat air to dry it in an air drier. They refrigerate it and
force it to condense. Heat at much higher temps closer to boiling ARE
used for forcing moisture out of desiccant and welding rod, but those
are not human habitable temperatures.

A dual desiccant chamber air dryer does use heat, but its much higher
heat to evaporate moisture into the air from the desiccant in the
inactive chamber, while the other chamber is absorbing moisture.

I think in a wet climate more heat, just means more evaporation into the
air. Maybe you were just a lot tougher when you were younger.

Maybe there are breaking points where things change?

Hi there

I missed these responses with being
* busy around the garden
* volunteering contributions at the hobby mine (have Eimco 12b - need to dismantle it and get it down the shaft and some bolted connections have
been welded-up)
* mind caught up on a line of thought about rock crushers.

What Jim describes about optimal - at night, open window or run A-C - is
the concept I was trying to convey (and Jim conveys much better).
How much moisture the air * could hold *.

In a foundry where there is a >locally< higher temperature with nothign
else adjusted to create a new equilibrium, the hotter air * could * hold
more moisture and when you perspire that perspiration * does *
evaporate. So you get the cooling effect of perspiration. If you were
to mist yourself and your clothes with water, that would presumably help
- and reduce the amount you are covered in salt encrustations from
sweating ?! :-).
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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1a4uj4vuf.fsf@void.com...

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10s643t$11ks6$1@dont-email.me...

On 4/20/2026 1:31 PM, Richard Smith wrote:

Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> writes:

On 3/27/2026 1:13 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 3/26/2026 6:36 PM, Snag wrote:

I have a heavy cotton long sleeve shirt that I use almost
exclusively for welding . When it's hot I can wet it for evap
cooling .

Thanks for explaining how you can weld in hot places.
Damp your clothes and get evaporative cooling...

I was working in Cleveland, Ohio, 25 years ago, and the summers were
about 35degC (90-high-something Farenheit?) and 90-something % humidity.

What onlookers didn't know seeing me working in that metal casting
foundry is that as the temperature goes up the relative humidity must
surely go down (same amount of water and the temperature has gone up, so
the ability to hold water must go up - which means relative humidity
lower?). For sure if you worked hard you got white salt stains on your
T-shirt.

I spent a couple summers in the late 70s and early 80s not to far from Cleveland. (20 miles west in Avon) It was pretty miserable when the
temps were in the 90s(F). I'm not so sure about your comments about
temp and humidity. In a wet climate like Ohio you get a lot more
evaporation from the standing water in higher temps, and in some cases I
was told they would get was called a self feeding rain.

They don't heat air to dry it in an air drier. They refrigerate it and
force it to condense. Heat at much higher temps closer to boiling ARE
used for forcing moisture out of desiccant and welding rod, but those
are not human habitable temperatures.

A dual desiccant chamber air dryer does use heat, but its much higher
heat to evaporate moisture into the air from the desiccant in the
inactive chamber, while the other chamber is absorbing moisture.

I think in a wet climate more heat, just means more evaporation into the
air. Maybe you were just a lot tougher when you were younger.

Maybe there are breaking points where things change?

Hi there

I missed these responses with being
* busy around the garden
* volunteering contributions at the hobby mine (have Eimco 12b - need to dismantle it and get it down the shaft and some bolted connections have
been welded-up)
* mind caught up on a line of thought about rock crushers.

What Jim describes about optimal - at night, open window or run A-C - is
the concept I was trying to convey (and Jim conveys much better).
How much moisture the air * could hold *.

In a foundry where there is a >locally< higher temperature with nothign
else adjusted to create a new equilibrium, the hotter air * could * hold
more moisture and when you perspire that perspiration * does *
evaporate. So you get the cooling effect of perspiration. If you were
to mist yourself and your clothes with water, that would presumably help
- and reduce the amount you are covered in salt encrustations from
sweating ?! :-).

-------------------------------- https://evapolar.com/blogs/blog/swamp-cooler-vs-air-conditioner?

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1a4uj4vuf.fsf@void.com...


I missed these responses with being ...
* volunteering contributions at the hobby mine (have Eimco 12b - need to dismantle it and get it down the shaft and some bolted connections have
been welded-up)
* mind caught up on a line of thought about rock crushers.

-------------------------
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocker_Shovel_Loader

How does the crushed ore get to the end of the track, or the track into the pile? Dumping the ore onto the track seems likely to derail the machine.

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1a4uj4vuf.fsf@void.com...

* mind caught up on a line of thought about rock crushers.

The horsepower, pulley and belt design section of this may be useful to you:

https://www.fpl.fs.usda.gov/documnts/misc/cirsaw.pdf

This afternoon I watched a small country sawmill in operation, how the logs are clamped, cut and rotated. Each log is different and the operator has to
be quite skilled to get the best results. Their process is much faster than mine to produce standard lumber sizes but not as suited to making the best
use of a hardwood log that will be cut into multiple different sized planks and beams according to its flaws for specific uses.

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1a4uj4vuf.fsf@void.com...

I missed these responses with being ...
* volunteering contributions at the hobby mine (have Eimco 12b - need to dismantle it and get it down the shaft and some bolted connections have
been welded-up)
* mind caught up on a line of thought about rock crushers.

-------------------------
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocker_Shovel_Loader

How does the crushed ore get to the end of the track, or the track
into the pile? Dumping the ore onto the track seems likely to derail
the machine.

Pardon - not understanding the question well.

Pardon if my best guess is wrong.

As best I understand - you'd be using an Eimco while driving as tunnel
during "development" - while you are taking ore, you are "developing"
into new resource so the mine continues in a quasi-static balance of
extraction and development.

If you are looking to where the tonnages of ore gets onto the tramming
level, that's through "box holes" and down "cousin jack chutes" into the wagons. It's a hopper in gravity, with all but the wooden chute being
formed in the rock. No Eimco there. All gravity. This is the whole
concept of "stoping". Various strategies to do it, but in Cornwall a
lot was "shrinkage stoping". You drill overhead into the lode with a "peg-leg". Then blast to break-up the lode. The trammers usually
working at night draw off a certain amount of ore down the cousin jack
chutes into the wagons such that the space left is just right for the
stopers coming in the next day to have a couple of metres height to
repeat drill-and-blast. Hence "shrinkage stoping". No of this involves Eimcos. You only freely draw-off the blasted broken-up ore when the
stopers cannot go any higher because they are just below the previous
deepest level.

Back to the Eimcos and development.
You drill with an air-leg (N.Am. "jack-leg") rock-drill and blast.
One part of your question - never seen it, but you lay channels on the
rails which push up to the blasted material and drive the Eimco down
those channels. The Eimco back-flips the broken material, probably
mainly "attle" ("deads" - no or not worth bothering with mineral
content), into the wagon behind, and when full is taken away and new
empty wagon there.

As the drive continues, the folk who make box-holes come along and break
into the lode on the upward diagonal. So that will be some muck to
clear-up.

I heard first hand about this because through a frosted-glass window of
a caravan ("trailer") I saw a vague object and asked if that is an
exploder (for electric detonators - newer more compact version of the
"dynamo" version Wile-e-Coyote frequently uses in the "Roadrunner"
cartoons). He said yes and showed me. He was a box-hole maker. He
joined us for a cup of tea and explained the method, equipment and how
it was used in stoping.
BTW in at least one abandoned mine there's a stope where you are
up-and-down because the ore has been drawn off from down below by the
boxholes, and it wasn't worth pushing the "serations" of piles
in-between into the box-holes, so you get a lot of exercise going
up-and-down along the huge nearly-empty stope.
Down below, the cousin jack chutes are still there.

Hope this is what you sought.

Best wishes
--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Richard Smith <null@void.com> writes:

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1a4uj4vuf.fsf@void.com...


I missed these responses with being ...
* volunteering contributions at the hobby mine (have Eimco 12b - need to
dismantle it and get it down the shaft and some bolted connections have
been welded-up)
* mind caught up on a line of thought about rock crushers.

-------------------------
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocker_Shovel_Loader

How does the crushed ore get to the end of the track, or the track
into the pile? Dumping the ore onto the track seems likely to derail
the machine.

Pardon - not understanding the question well.

Pardon if my best guess is wrong.

As best I understand - you'd be using an Eimco while driving as tunnel
during "development" - while you are taking ore, you are "developing"
into new resource so the mine continues in a quasi-static balance of extraction and development.

If you are looking to where the tonnages of ore gets onto the tramming
level, that's through "box holes" and down "cousin jack chutes" into the wagons. It's a hopper in gravity, with all but the wooden chute being
formed in the rock. No Eimco there. All gravity. This is the whole
concept of "stoping". Various strategies to do it, but in Cornwall a
lot was "shrinkage stoping". You drill overhead into the lode with a "peg-leg". Then blast to break-up the lode. The trammers usually
working at night draw off a certain amount of ore down the cousin jack
chutes into the wagons such that the space left is just right for the
stopers coming in the next day to have a couple of metres height to
repeat drill-and-blast. Hence "shrinkage stoping". No of this involves Eimcos. You only freely draw-off the blasted broken-up ore when the
stopers cannot go any higher because they are just below the previous
deepest level.

Back to the Eimcos and development.
You drill with an air-leg (N.Am. "jack-leg") rock-drill and blast.
One part of your question - never seen it, but you lay channels on the
rails which push up to the blasted material and drive the Eimco down
those channels. The Eimco back-flips the broken material, probably
mainly "attle" ("deads" - no or not worth bothering with mineral
content), into the wagon behind, and when full is taken away and new
empty wagon there.

As the drive continues, the folk who make box-holes come along and break
into the lode on the upward diagonal. So that will be some muck to
clear-up.

I heard first hand about this because through a frosted-glass window of
a caravan ("trailer") I saw a vague object and asked if that is an
exploder (for electric detonators - newer more compact version of the "dynamo" version Wile-e-Coyote frequently uses in the "Roadrunner"
cartoons). He said yes and showed me. He was a box-hole maker. He
joined us for a cup of tea and explained the method, equipment and how
it was used in stoping.
BTW in at least one abandoned mine there's a stope where you are
up-and-down because the ore has been drawn off from down below by the boxholes, and it wasn't worth pushing the "serations" of piles
in-between into the box-holes, so you get a lot of exercise going
up-and-down along the huge nearly-empty stope.
Down below, the cousin jack chutes are still there.

Hope this is what you sought.

Best wishes

Looked up Ozark on maps - good place to be by the look of it.
Yes not a Harley "Monster"-Glide or a Honda "Lead"wing ;-)
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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m15x56h03v.fsf@void.com...

* volunteering contributions at the hobby mine ...

https://www.cornishmineimages.co.uk/cornish-mines-underground-1/

--- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m15x56h03v.fsf@void.com... > * volunteering contributions at the hobby mine ...

https://www.cornishmineimages.co.uk/cornish-mines-underground-1/

Yes.
Abandoned mine exploring is said to happen here...
Not as I have met any who would take me along even if I wanted to...
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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1ik934qwd.fsf@void.com...

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m15x56h03v.fsf@void.com... > * volunteering contributions at the hobby mine ...

https://www.cornishmineimages.co.uk/cornish-mines-underground-1/

Yes.
Abandoned mine exploring is said to happen here...
Not as I have met any who would take me along even if I wanted to... ----------------------
I have the equipment and have practiced climbing up and down a rope but
don't trust my skill and coordination enough to climb higher than I'm
willing to risk falling. As a kid I read that a paratrooper landing is like falling from 15-20 feet and I had to try it, repeatedly. That may have
caused or contributed to my lifelong back, knee and foot problems. I claim I feel like a teenager because the same places still hurt. Now I use the climbing gear only to work on the roof antennas, solar panels and wood stove chimney.
https://www.cmcpro.com/c/ascenders/ https://www.industrialsafetyproducts.com/frontline-rosu02ss-stainless-steel-permanent-use-roof-anchor/?
They go under and extend beyond the ridge cap. Winter snow here can be heavy enough to collapse roofs unless shoveled.

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